Capacitors

[twc644]

Hey guys,
I've been an on and off member since 2001.I have an electronics background and was wondering about your opinions regarding capacitors. I change them out on old and new equipment-of course I use the good ones with fantastic results-been doing it for years.

My latest projects have been 3 pairs of low end Polk Audio speakers(Monitor 30 and 40).I put Jantzen Z- Superior and Solens in the crossovers. Man oh man did it elevate these speakers to another level.Also, just worked on a Yamaha integrated amp with really good results.

Anyone else do this..to me it's the best bang for the buck mod vs. buying something expensive and new.I'm still amazed at the difference in sound from all this equipment I've worked on. How bout you guys ?

[JoeE SP9]

IMHO good caps can and do make a difference in the sound. I can't comment about cap use in speakers, mine have none. No crossovers, doncha know!:hand:

[luvtolisten]

Cool! I haven't, but you have me thinking about it. I have 2 pairs of budget speakers (Bic 62's and Infinity Beta 20's). Did you buy the caps on line? How much were they, if you don't mind me asking?

[JoeE SP9]

Check the link below. He sells audiophile grade caps and all kinds of DIY goodies.
One tweak I picked up is to line the back of speaker baskets with Mortite. Of course you must keep it away from the magnet and suspension. There are other inexpensive tweaks that you can do to inexpensive speakers.

Add an internal brace or braces to stiffen the cabinet walls.
Line the internal walls with automotive sound deadening sheets.
Replace the speaker connectors with binding posts if they are those crappy spring loaded things.

http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf

Part Express is also a good place to buy higher quality caps and other parts.

http://www.parts-express.com/home.cfm?CFID=6830911&CFTOKEN=48454763

[luvtolisten]

Thanks, Joe.

[twc644]

The price depends on certain factors....the quality of the capacitor,capacitance value and voltage rating.Old or new speakers-I take out the cheapo electrolytics and replace them with Solens(affordable) bypassed with either Jantzen Z-Superior or Audio Theta ppt from Parts Express.

For instance one of my speakers has an 18uf 50 volt on the crossover. Well,an 18uf Jantzen Z-Superior would cost for that one cap = $70.00 bucks. So I'd use a 17uf Solen and bypass it with a 1uf affordable higher end Jantzen.this makes it much easier on the wallet and still sounds damn good ! Or get an 18uf Solen and use a .18uf to .22uf Z-Superior..your only going .22uf higher so thats not gonna mess up the frequency response in a crossover and this is a much more tangible method financially.

I use the formula for bypassing: 1/1000= .....another words a 470uf electrolytic bypassed would go like this: 470/1000 = .47....so a good quality .47uf polypropylene is what you need.
This formula is not set in stone,however,it's a good measure to prevent any form of time smear messing up the sound in the amp,preamp,cd player,and/or speaker.If this is done in an amp or preamp the largest gain from this are using the really good caps in the signal path of the circuit.Thats where this can get frustrating if one does not have the schematics.



There are many variations for this method . Of course if the cap is a small 1uf or less I'd use a single cap....but larger values might require a cheaper Poly bypassed with a very good quality smaller value poly.

I friggin love those Z-Superiors..man those are some extremely musical caps.

Aside from swapping out parts in my speakers another huge difference was in my 1986 Adcom gfp555 preamp. God. changing out every electrolytic and bypassing those in the signal path made that component sing like the angels...I'm not kidding and i'm not very fond of Adcom(dont curse me please lol ). The engineers back then did a wonderful job designing it but they had to cut corners and put crappy Jamicon caps in it.

Swap those out for Rubycon za/zl's from Standard Reference Audio Mods and bypass the 4 in the signal path..let it burn in..sit back and enjoy the music.

Remember,if your equipment is older...it is wise to first change out the caps in the power supply circuit. Depending on the size and values Panasonic fc's from Digikey are an excellent choice and very affordable.

If your speaker are older and funds are limited..just usinf Solens will still yield great results in a speaker crossover.I bypass those just to remove that little bit of harshness in sound from them.

Whew...yea, I know I sound like a 45 year old capacitor nut..lol

I'm tellin' ya guys,if you can solder try it out sometime.As others earlier have mentioned to obtain any of these caps:

Solen, Jantzen(crosscaps,z-standard,z-superior,z-silver),Kimber,Audio Theta PPT
http://www.parts-express.com/home.cfm?CFID=8961576&CFTOKEN=56551868

Mundorf,Solen,Clarity cap
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=404_5

Multiple good brands from
http://www.soniccraft.com/products/capacitors/film.htm

More multiple good ones from
http://www.percyaudio.com/

Just to name a few

apologies for such a verbose post to everyone.Once I get started I cant stop.Audio is my blood since I was a little kid but living on a maintenance mans $39-41k salary with a family to support limits my funding for much higher end stuff.Still, beautiful music from rock,punk,jazz etc... can be obtained in tweaking mid fi equipment for a very modest sum vs. paying thousands of dollars more just for the equipment.

JoeE- I need to try that out sometime with the mortite and internal bracing.

[JoeE SP9]

luvtolisten;
The upgraded cap tweak is what I would do first.

twc644;
I have done the mortite tweak on several inexpensive speakers. It is especially effective on speakers that have a stamped metal basket. A horizontal brace in the middle and the auto sound deadening sheets (Fat Mat $45 for 25Sq Ft) really make a difference with respect to cabinet vibrations. Getting rid of cabinet vibration is a significant upgrade. Many high end speaker manufacturers use 2 and 3 inch thick front baffles to help fight vibration. A large part of the cost of Wilson Audio's speakers is tied up in the material they use to construct their cabinets. You don't want cabinets to vibrate!

That's one of the many reasons I love my ESL's, no cabinet and no crossovers. I do use electronic crossovers at 75Hz for my subs.

The great thing about these tweaks is they are cheap to implement. $10 will get you 90Ft. of Mortite rope caulk. When you apply it to the stamped basket just firmly press it down and cover the entire metal basket. You should end up with a 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick coating. If the coating is too thick it will change the cabinets internal volume. The harder you press the thinner the coating. When I do this I try to keep the thickness consistant. I have not tried this with speakers that have cast baskets. I don't see how it could hurt and it may help them also.
If you do this you might as well replace the stuffing with Polyfil pillow stuffing. It's another very small upgrade. It only costs a couple of bucks.
If your speakers have those spring loaded connectors get rid of them also. Proper binding posts are cheap. The horizontal brace is just a piece of wood (really cheap).

Several years ago my brother and I put together a modest system for our mother. The EPI's we got her were the first speakers I tried these tweaks on. She commented that the speakers sound smoother (her words) after the tweaks. I thought so too.

BTW I did the cap replacement on them also. Not Solen's or Jantzens but decent ones from Parts Express

[RGA]

I assume you've tried the parts connection - used you could look at Black Gate but they stopped production in 2007. Martin Colloms did a write up of these caps and said they were the best he's heard but I do not know if they were designed for loudspeakers and I have never fiddled with comparisonons.

Try here for entry level to insanely priced caps. http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/catalog/CapacitorsFilm.html

[twc644]

RGA-,He might have been referring to the "ac" series from Blackgate for speakers. I've often wondered how those sound when they were available. I forgot about Parts Connextion-i'm broke now lol...I could go crazy spending money in that store.

JoeE-Thanks for the in depth post regarding mortite.I'll have to try that sometime along with an internal brace.Another project for me to look forward to down the road. That's excellent info !

[E-Stat]

Anyone else do this..to me it's the best bang for the buck mod vs. buying something expensive and new.I'm still amazed at the difference in sound from all this equipment I've worked on. How bout you guys ?
I've reworked the crossovers in my vintage Advents. One consideration is that film caps have lower ESR (series resistance) than electrolytics. So, if you simply do a cap swap for that type, the result will be brighter as well. The New Advents used a 13uf electrolytic. I first tried using 13uf of Solens and found that while it was more open, it was too bright. I ended up using a new 12uf electrolytic and a 1 uf Solen film. That gave the best overall result. I also replaced the wiring and soldered the leads instead of using the clips.

rw

[luvtolisten]

Wow! This has turned out to be a very interesting and informative thread. Great for folks like me, who appreciate better sound but don't have the available funds to support it. I'm sure here are many, many more like me out there. Thank you all for contributing.

[RGA]

The Black Gate caps will likely start to get prohibitive so if you want to try I bet sooner is better than later. Audio Note kept them in business the last several years and I know they're still trying to find something as good - but they felt BG was the best around and they tried them all. Of course best in one application may not be best in another so...

But this is the Black Gate Article in pdf. http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/blackgate/blackgate_Feb2003.pdf

[twc644]

E-Stat,
I did the same thing replacing the wiring inside a pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers years ago.That,in addition to replacing the resistors with non inductive wirewound types and better capacitors turned those into giant killer sounding speakers.I first tried some expensive Monster speaker cable.After burn in it was horrid sounding so I used some good solid copper in a thicker gauge.Made a big difference over time but was much more difficult to work with as it's stiffer material and easily breaks when bending at sharp angles.

These Polks I have are much lower end so i opted to just do the caps and resistors.I should have gone ahead and replaced the wiring as I have plenty here.Just got lazy in my haste to get it done I guess.

I'm an advocate of Solen caps but I feel after using them for years it helps to bypass them with something better.This takes out the grainy sound they're notorious for.Even better and more economical is your method just bypassing the electrolytics-that way you can put the money in a more expensive cap that is a small value making it more affordable and much less work. I replace them all myself simply because I hate those cheap Chinese electrolytics usually found in speakers in this price range but you get what you pay for so I cant complain.

For those inclined to replace the caps and using polypropylene......you will have to improvise fitting the new caps and resistors on the crossover. Reason being,the new caps will be 4x as large as the electrolytics..It can be done without having to build a separate board to fit the new caps althought this would be a more professional method.

I found that I have to install the new caps on the backside of the crossover board and used a $8 dollar glue gun to hold them in place if that helps for anyone new to this.

If these were much higher end speakers I would have done it full bore properly.Still,they work and sound wonderful .

[twc644]

[QUOTE=RGA]The Black Gate caps will likely start to get prohibitive so if you want to try I bet sooner is better than later. Audio Note kept them in business the last several years and I know they're still trying to find something as good - but they felt BG was the best around and they tried them all. Of course best in one application may not be best in another so...

A very good substitute for those Blackgates are the Rubycon za/zl series. I've used a bunch of them.Great for power supplies or in the signal path.

[hermanv]

I avoid electrolytic capacitors in crossovers whenever possible. If you must, the Bennic caps at Madisound http://www.madisound.com/about/capacitors.php
offer good value.

The laws of diminishing returns and weakest link both apply to crossover capacitors;

Worst to best (IMHO):
electrolytic
bi-polar electrolytic
metalized mylar
metalized films
foil and film mylar
foil and film polypropylene
foil and film Teflon
foil and film polystyrene
silver foil and film polypropylene
silver foil and film Teflon
silver foil and film polystyrene
copper foil (as above)
No opinion on oil, beeswax and/or paper dielectric

IMHO don't bother going very far down this list if your system is mass market. For the very best systems, each increment in capacitor cost will yield audible benefits.

[luvtolisten]

For instance one of my speakers has an 18uf 50 volt on the crossover. Well,an 18uf Jantzen Z-Superior would cost for that one cap = $70.00 bucks. So I'd use a 17uf Solen and bypass it with a 1uf affordable higher end Jantzen.this makes it much easier on the wallet and still sounds damn good ! Or get an 18uf Solen and use a .18uf to .22uf Z-Superior..your only going .22uf higher so thats not gonna mess up the frequency response in a crossover and this is a much more tangible method financially.

I'm tellin' ya guys,if you can solder try it out sometime.As others earlier have mentioned to obtain any of these caps:

Solen, Jantzen(crosscaps,z-standard,z-superior,z-silver),Kimber,Audio Theta PPT
http://www.parts-express.com/home.cfm?CFID=8961576&CFTOKEN=56551868


TWC,
you've got me psyched! I have a good candidate I'd like to try, I have a pair of
Insignia N S 2111's
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7705307&type=product&id=1138085354138.
It's a nice looking speaker, but sounds, like a $75/pr speaker which is what I paid for it. The question I have, is the crossover has a 1.5 uf and 2.2 uf in parallel. I was thinking of replacing the 1.5 uf with a Kimber Kap, and the 2.2uf with a Jantzen Superior. Sound right?
Also Parts Express has Viper coaxial drivers, which would fit with little or no modifications to the cabinet for $22, which I may buy also.

[twc644]

I'm not fond of electrolytics as well. Honestly, the best I've ever come across are the Rubycon za/ zl series.They can take much punishment,low esr,high temp, and sound very good for an electrolytic.

I'ved used these plenty of times when I had too.Also,they are used in high speed power supplies where I work that are on 18 hours a day 5 days a week for years.I found out about them about 4-5 years ago from Standard Reference Audio Mods who sells them.

They are pricey but if electrolytics must be used then these are the one to have and are excellent substitutes for Blackgates in my opinion.The only problem is your limited with whats available capacitance wise up to I think 3300uf .

I still have to sometimes resort to the very good but much lower priced Panasonic fc's for power supplies and other areas not in the signal path. Jantzen Z-Standard and the Z-Superior are my favorite somewhat affordable higher end poly caps.

Most of my gear is older mid-fi at best unfortunately.

[twc644]

TWC,
you've got me psyched! I have a good candidate I'd like to try, I have a pair of
Insignia N S 2111's
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7705307&type=product&id=1138085354138.
It's a nice looking speaker, but sounds, like a $75/pr speaker which is what I paid for it. The question I have, is the crossover has a 1.5 uf and 2.2 uf in parallel. I was thinking of replacing the 1.5 uf with a Kimber Kap, and the 2.2uf with a Jantzen Superior. Sound right?
Also Parts Express has Viper coaxial drivers, which would fit with little or no modifications to the cabinet for $22, which I may buy also.


Absolutely give it a shot.I would go for the Jantzen Z-Standards myself on those speakers from Parts Express. A little more affordable but if you can spare the extra bucks by all means try the Z-Superiors. Just remember please, those Jantzens are huge in size okay. Make sure you can fit them on the crossover boards.They give the dimensions of the caps in the description.The Kimbers are polar caps so be SURE you install them with proper orientation just like the electrolytics regarding positive/negative..this is why they have a separate black and red leads okay.

The Audio Theta PPT caps they offer are a good sub for the Jantzen Z-Superior if you need a slightly smaller size to fit on the circuti board.Good Luck and keep us informed

Be sure to give some time to burn in before you make any judgements to the sound.Dont know anything about the Viper coaxial drivers. I'll have to look at that sometime.I'd try the cap swap for the time being if I was you unless those Insignia drivers are very poor in performance.

[luvtolisten]

Thanks, TWC, I didn't realize the Kimbers were polarized. Maybe I'll just use the Jantzen Standard's instead, with the Jantzen Superior, unless you think I should just use all Standards, that the Superiors won't make much difference. I'll try the caps first, as you say.
The drivers,are very cheap, but when this speaker came out they were only $45 a pair too. Most of the cost I'm sure was on the cabinet, not the driver or crossover..
Here is the Vifa driver I was thinking of:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=299-274

I don't know much about crossovers, (I couldn't find the crossover frequency for the Insignia's) I could try the original Insigna crossover (with the new caps) with the Vifa driver.
Looks like here they just put a 2.2uf on the tweeter. But I would guess whichever way I did it,the Vifa driver would sound better than the Insignia driver. Vifa, I thought, is a decent driver.
Worse case, I could always stick a Jantzen cap on it and see what happens. Any advice/opinions you would like to offer, I would appreciate.

[twc644]

Go for the caps first.Since these are lower end speakers I'd first try not too expensive caps,however, this is up to you.I'd really stick with the Z-Standards myself.I've got some of those on order for my Monitor 40 Polks. I used Solens and Z-Superior on the monitor 30's-those were $100.00 a pair(have two pairs for 2 channel stereo).

Might be best to take this in steps. First try the caps. Jantzen also has the "crosscaps" which is their lowest end poly cap. I'm sure these still would yield an improvement.If your gonna go for the z-superior then use it torwards the 1.5uf.

As stated earlier by someone else it is possible to leave the original caps and parallel them with Z-Superior.That way you'd need a very small value like .15 uf for the 1.5uf original,then use a .22 for the 2.2uf original. This will save some bucks being a smaller value for the Z-Superior but keep in mind these values will be 1200 volt rated and huge in size.


You can use the Kimbers.Use a sharpie pen and put a black dot on the circuit board for the negative side .This way you'll know which hole to put the black lead in from the Kimber cap.The negative side of the original capacitor is the one with the stripe on the side okay.You do not want to install it backwards.It could lead to very bad results.

[luvtolisten]

Thanks for getting back TWC, I understand what your saying (no sense putting a Ferrari transmission in a Yugo). I'll go with the less expensive caps, and as you say, step by step. I've cooled on the Vifa driver. I received a flyer Monday, saying they were on sale, $22, COMPARE to $60! When actually on the Parts Express website, the usual price is $26, so it's not as great a deal as I first thought. I'll go ahead, and order the caps, and let you know how I make out. I think I can make the larger caps fit,one way or the other. Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it. Here's what the crossover looks like:

[Kevio]

Gentlemen, you cannot used a polarized capacitor in a crossover. Audio signals are alternating current so polarity goes both positive and negative.

The fact that speaker connections are labeled positive and negative is probably what's misleading you. The labeling is so that you get the same phase AC voltage for each speaker - it does not indicate the presence of DC voltage.

If you put a polarized electrolytic, in a crossover it will introduce distortion. If you and crank it up, you'll fry the capacitor.

You can create a non polarized capacitor by wiring two polarized capacitors in series connecting + to +. In this configuration the overall capacitance will be half the rating of the individual capacitors.

[luvtolisten]

Gentlemen, you cannot used a polarized capacitor in a crossover. Audio signals are alternating current so polarity goes both positive and negative.

The fact that speaker connections are labeled positive and negative is probably what's misleading you. The labeling is so that you get the same phase AC voltage for each speaker - it does not indicate the presence of DC voltage.

If you put a polarized electrolytic, in a crossover it will introduce distortion. If you and crank it up, you'll fry the capacitor.

You can create a non polarized capacitor by wiring two polarized capacitors in series connecting + to +. In this configuration the overall capacitance will be half the rating of the individual capacitors.

Thank you for the correction Kevio. I'm curious though, does the signal from the amp have an AC signal, or is it introduced by the inductors,or coil of the speakers?

By the way, I called Parts Express, the Kimber Kaps, (I had picked out) are not polarized.

[Kevio]

The amp itself produces an AC signal. Some amplifier topologies (e.g. class AB a.k.a. push-pull) are inherently AC. Others (i.e. class A) produce a DC signal but are biased and/or capacitively coupled to produce an AC output.

[twc644]

Luvtolisten,
What have you decided to do ? Hope everything turns out okay for you.If you still decide to swap out the caps please let me know your impressions.It's always made a big difference for me including amps,preamps,cd players,dvd players, etc....

[luvtolisten]

Hi TWC,
I'm having fun! I took apart my Insignia's wrote down the cap values. Then I thought, what the heck, I've got a pair of Bose 301's which I'm sorry I bought, ( I bought them thinking they would sound as good as the ones I had back in the 70's, but not the case, I'm not sure whether they went backwards, or everything else is that much better). Anyway, when I opened them up, there was no inductor, but what I thought was a fuse. After reading the forums I found out that it actually is a fuse (for the tweeters) and a lamp that acts like an inductor when it heats up. The back firing tweeter is crossed over to be more of a midrange. Very cheaply made. But I can change the caps, so I will. Then I have a pair of Bic 62's, so I took that one apart too. Just to compare the build to the others. It was better than the other two, the Bose being the worse. Finally, I also have a pair of Infinity Beta 20's. I took a look inside too.That one has the best quality of any of them. They used 14 AWG throughout (the Bic 16, Insignia 18, the Bose 20). It actually had the board mounted on stand offs, the others were glued down, the Bose didn't even have a board, they were mounted to the drivers with wires running between the components instead of a circuit board. The Bose I had (series 1) did have a board. They really cheapened them up. The Infinity's were made in Mexico, the rest in China. I don't mean to be long winded, but I though it was interesting to see the various methods manufacterurers use.
So I decided , to buy caps for all of them.I ordered them yesterday. I see what you mean, it can get expensive. But I did pretty much what you did.I ordered mostly Jantzen Standard, which will be used on all of them. The Infinity called for a 12 uf, which only the more expensive line had, so to keep costs down I 'll use a Jantzen Standard 10uf, in parallel with a Solen 2uf. I did the same thing with the Bose, it called for a 4uf, so I'll use a Jantzen Standard 3.9uf with a Audio Cap .1uf. I ordered them all yesterday, It wasn't too bad, ended up being $68, + $8.88 shipping $76.88 total. I do have the tools, and skill, to do it, ( I was an electronic "fabricator" for over 30 years, for a large company here, the engineers would designed it, I would build it.) So I'm looking forward to it. Where else could you spend $77 and have hours and hours of entertainment? Thank you TWC, Joe, Kevio, and the rest of the guys, I'm really having a ball with this, and learning something new at the same time.:thumbsup:

[Worf101]

As a person who's NEVER messed with the electronic guts of a speaker this is one fascinating thread. Thanks all.

Da Worfster

[Kevio]

I have some capacitors on the way too. I was just going to put them in series on the outside of my B&W DM302's as a high pass to keep them from trying to do the subwoofer's work. For the 100 Hz corner I'm looking for, a large (200 uf) capacitor is required. I don't really want signals for my tweeter to have to run through that so I have a choice to bypass it with a smaller cap or open the speaker and put the new cap in series with the woofer only. I'll probably give both a listen. I'll let you all know what I hear.

[luvtolisten]

I have some capacitors on the way too. I was just going to put them in series on the outside of my B&W DM302's as a high pass to keep them from trying to do the subwoofer's work. For the 100 Hz corner I'm looking for, a large (200 uf) capacitor is required. I don't really want signals for my tweeter to have to run through that so I have a choice to bypass it with a smaller cap or open the speaker and put the new cap in series with the woofer only. I'll probably give both a listen. I'll let you all know what I hear.

I would be very interested how it turns out. I'm thinking of buying an used integrated amp for a 2.1 system. The amp has no bass management. I would have to use a pre-out. The sub has a crossover, which I'll probably set at 80hz. I was wondering if I could do the same as you, only with my speakers, add a cap, as well? Maybe clean up the lower end of my speakers?

[JoeE SP9]

Most crossovers on plate amps have a high pass and a low pass section. In other words you probably don't need to add a capacitor to the input for your mains because the high pass portion of the plate amps crossover has already taken care of that. Of course there may be a very few plate amps that just pass a full range signal to the mains. The literature that came with the sub woofer should tell you.
You should use the line in inputs on the plate amp. The line outs should be connected to the power amp that drives your main speakers.

[luvtolisten]

Yes, Joe, you are correct, but in my case, my sub ( Energy ESW 8) has a high pass input, but no output for the speakers.

[JoeE SP9]

You might be better of with an electronic crossover. Passive crossovers and their parts are just not good for sound. Adding more passive parts is not a good thing. The reason for swapping crossover parts with higher quality ones is to minimize the effect they have on sound.
Behringer crossovers are inexpensive and well reviewed. Had I known of them when I purchased my 2 Paradigm's I would have bought Behringers instead.

[luvtolisten]

Thanks Joe, I did look up the Behringer crossover, it's about $84 with shipping. (Not bad)But it's not a high priority with me right now. I'm not sure if I'm getting the integrated amp yet.

[Kevio]

You might be better of with an electronic crossover. Passive crossovers and their parts are just not good for sound. Adding more passive parts is not a good thing. The reason for swapping crossover parts with higher quality ones is to minimize the effect they have on sound.Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there's a whole "straight wire" audiophile crowd who think badly of unnecessary active electronics.

I think I would probably be better off with an electronic crossover but if I can put out $5 and a bit of stimulating experimentation to get better sound, I'm there.

Luv, I have the same subwoofer so I presume this will be quite relevant for you. What are you using for main speakers. What crossover frequency setting are you currently using on the sub?

[luvtolisten]

Luv, I have the same subwoofer so I presume this will be quite relevant for you. What are you using for main speakers. What crossover frequency setting are you currently using on the sub?

Right now I am sharing a NAD T754 between HT (5.1) (speaker 'A") and the speaker "B" is strictly for 2.1. I have 4 sets of speakers I switch in and out, just because each has their strengths and weakness. And it's fun to hear something different. The speakers I switch between are, Wharfedale EVO 10's, Paradigm Titians, AV123 XL's, Infinity Beta 20's, and sometimes the Bic 62's. I use the bass management on the NAD, I have it set at 80hz. All the speakers specs run down to 55-65 Hz (at least that's what the specs say)
I did try without the bass management, and if I remember correctly, I had it set lower, maybe around 65 or 70 hz.What do you have your sub set at?

I saw an integrated amp (Cambridge Audio 640A V2) that was 2 months old, for $300.
I was thinking of getting it, again to hear something a little different than the NAD, and to eliminate the log run of speakers wires to another area.

[hermanv]

Thanks Joe, I did look up the Behringer crossover, it's about $84 with shipping. (Not bad)But it's not a high priority with me right now. I'm not sure if I'm getting the integrated amp yet.
Madisound http://www.madisound.com/ offers a custom crossover design service for near this price, they will need either driver part numbers or Theille/Small driver parameters. You can set up a test to derive the Theille/Small parameters or get them from a driver data sheet. Madisound will also want to know cabinet volume.

Parts connection wil also sell you a crossover PCB, you supply parts (and values).

There is nothing wrong with active crossovers, but they also have limitations. Since drivers rarely follow a simple network roll off or phase characteristic a "universal" active crossover will never match the drivers exactly. With proper tools and equipment a passive design could end up a better match.

[Kevio]

Right now I am sharing a NAD T754 between HT (5.1) (speaker 'A") and the speaker "B" is strictly for 2.1. I have 4 sets of speakers I switch in and out, just because each has their strengths and weakness. And it's fun to hear something different. The speakers I switch between are, Wharfedale EVO 10's, Paradigm Titians, AV123 XL's, Infinity Beta 20's, and sometimes the Bic 62's. I use the bass management on the NAD, I have it set at 80hz. All the speakers specs run down to 55-65 Hz (at least that's what the specs say)
I did try without the bass management, and if I remember correctly, I had it set lower, maybe around 65 or 70 hz.What do you have your sub set at?
With all those options, I'd think you'd want to have a electronic crossover so that you can quickly tweak it in for each type of speaker.

My sub crossover is set to its highest (140 Hz I think) with level turned way down. Surprised me that that appears to give me the most even LF response. I went back and reevaluated a couple times including twiddling with the phase switch. I haven't done any science or anything but with other settings, bass lines were ducking in and out as they went up and down the scale.

I'm guessing there's some weird phase response curve at the low end of these little B&W's. That's why I want to HP them. Spec says they're good to 65 Hz but also says distortion is <1% only down to 100 Hz. I'm thinking there's pure crap from 100 Hz on down.

[JoeE SP9]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there's a whole "straight wire" audiophile crowd who think badly of unnecessary active electronics.

I think I would probably be better off with an electronic crossover but if I can put out $5 and a bit of stimulating experimentation to get better sound, I'm there.

You are correct. However passive crossovers have a much greater and worse effect than any electronic one. With the extremely high prices of some caps a Behringer or something comparable is not unreasonable.

Most ESL owners talk about seamless response. This is because there are no passive crossovers in ESL's. Our compliant/problem comes from the different radiation patterns of sub woofers and ESL panels. This is not a crossover related problem.

Yes, I'm in the "straight wire" camp. A fanatic I'm not. As my gear and room got better my need and desire for sound altering things like tone controls and equalizers lessened. I'd like to point out that correcting room problems will give more bang for the buck than almost any thing else.

[twc644]

Hi Luvtolisten,
Hey man,sorry I told you wrong about the Kimbers being polar.Someone told me that on another website and I took his word as oath.My mistake-my fault---i'm sorry ! I used 4 of the Kimbers to parallel some electrolytics in my Adcom preamp when I was re-capping it. I made sure the black leads were tied to the negative leg of each electrolytic cap.

I will say the Z-Superior are in a class by themselves. When I can afford more I will purchase them.I just finished recapping about 3/4 of my yamaha integrated amp.Whew,glad I finally got all of the power supply and most of the preamp caps replaced.

I think once you get all those caps installed you'll hear a nice difference. I still have one pair to do if the Jantzens will ever arrive. Keep the soldering iron hot and dont burn yourself bud lol !

[luvtolisten]

With all those options, I'd think you'd want to have a electronic crossover so that you can quickly tweak it in for each type of speaker.

My sub crossover is set to its highest (140 Hz I think) with level turned way down. Surprised me that that appears to give me the most even LF response. I went back and reevaluated a couple times including twiddling with the phase switch. I haven't done any science or anything but with other settings, bass lines were ducking in and out as they went up and down the scale.

I'm guessing there's some weird phase response curve at the low end of these little B&W's. That's why I want to HP them. Spec says they're good to 65 Hz but also says distortion is <1% only down to 100 Hz. I'm thinking there's pure crap from 100 Hz on down.

You're right, if I did get the intergrated amp I would go that way. My first choice would be the Outlaw 2150, (because of the bass management). I found out too late they had it on sale for $499, instead of the usual $699,the sale ended 4/20. I saw the Cambrige for $300,used, which is a good price.That with the Behringer, which would give me more flexibility, with bass management,and still would be under $400. I don't care about the tuner, where I live, the reception is terrible, a lot of interference.

You're probably right about the bass setting too, (I really didn't spend much time using the sub without using the bass management of the reciever). It makes sense what you are saying, the 8 inch driver of the sub probably can handle the higher frequecies better than the 6.5 drivers(in my case anyway) can handle the lower frequencies. I think it's better to have a overlap in the frequency even if it's not pristine, rather than to have a hole in it. I agree with you too, that low frequency spec on most speakers can be taken with a grain of salt, without a distortion number to go with it. There may be bass there, but how tight is it?

[luvtolisten]

Hi Luvtolisten,
Hey man,sorry I told you wrong about the Kimbers being polar.Someone told me that on another website and I took his word as oath.My mistake-my fault---i'm sorry ! I used 4 of the Kimbers to parallel some electrolytics in my Adcom preamp when I was re-capping it. I made sure the black leads were tied to the negative leg of each electrolytic cap.

I will say the Z-Superior are in a class by themselves. When I can afford more I will purchase them.I just finished recapping about 3/4 of my yamaha integrated amp.Whew,glad I finally got all of the power supply and most of the preamp caps replaced.

I think once you get all those caps installed you'll hear a nice difference. I still have one pair to do if the Jantzens will ever arrive. Keep the soldering iron hot and dont burn yourself bud lol !

No apology necessary, Kimber probably does make a polarized cap as well, better to be safe than sorry. I have put caps in backwards before, it's not a good thing! How long would guess the burn in time would be for the new caps? Are the Jantzen's you're waitng for Standard's 2.2uf? I needed some, but they were backordered. They suggested a substitute, a Dayton . It's made of the same material as the Jantzen, but has a tighter tolerance, I ended up ordering it in place of the Jantzen Standard.

How much of an improvement are the Jantzen Z Superior vs. the Jantzen Standards in a crossover? Those rascals can get to be pretty expensive! If there is a big difference sound wise, got any idea what point would you start using them as compared to the speaker price? Would they be worth putting in a speaker say below $400/pair?

Now you've got me thinking, I have a pair of Wharfedales I really like. All the parts are made by Wharfedale (or so they say) but assembled in China. I'll have to take a peek inside, at the caps. If they are cheapo's this may be a good candidate for the Jantzen Z's.
Thanks again for you guidance and help. It's been a pleasure.
PS I won't burn myself, but I can't make any promises about anything else!

[twc644]

No apology necessary, Kimber probably does make a polarized cap as well, better to be safe than sorry. I have put caps in backwards before, it's not a good thing! How long would guess the burn in time would be for the new caps? Are the Jantzen's you're waitng for Standard's 2.2uf? I needed some, but they were backordered. They suggested a substitute, a Dayton . It's made of the same material as the Jantzen, but has a tighter tolerance, I ended up ordering it in place of the Jantzen Standard.

How much of an improvement are the Jantzen Z Superior vs. the Jantzen Standards in a crossover? Those rascals can get to be pretty expensive! If there is a big difference sound wise, got any idea what point would you start using them as compared to the speaker price? Would they be worth putting in a speaker say below $400/pair?

Now you've got me thinking, I have a pair of Wharfedales I really like. All the parts are made by Wharfedale (or so they say) but assembled in China. I'll have to take a peek inside, at the caps. If they are cheapo's this may be a good candidate for the Jantzen Z's.
Thanks again for you guidance and help. It's been a pleasure.
PS I won't burn myself, but I can't make any promises about anything else!




The Z-Superior has an edge over the Z-Standards but not a lot.If Parts E. was out of the Z-Superior I would have got the Audio Theta PPT's. Those are nice capacitors also as I've used some recently.

The Z-Standards are a slight step better than Solens without the harshness.I like them immensly. Boy, you do have a collection of speakers. I remember when Ed Frias offered to upgrade the crossovers for those some years back.Those that had that done raved about them. He did more than swap out parts-he changed certain things in the crossovers.Look him up sometime if interested. He offers his own line of speakers that everbody raves about. I dont know if he still offers to do this as it's been at least 4-5 years since I've read about it.

[twc644]

I'm curious about your Insignia's....keep me informed when you change out the caps.Give the caps a good 50 hours to break in okay.

[luvtolisten]

Hi TWC,
I have heard of Ed Frias. From what I hear you had to send back not just the crossovers, but the entire speaker. The last I heard or his most recent email that I know of was:
efespeakers@commspeed.net, but when I tried sending it, it bounced back. He may not be doing it anymore, I haven't heard his name recently. He was on this forum a while back, like you say 3 or 4 years ago.
Yes, I'll let you know how it goes with the Insignia's. They are other tweaks you can do I found on a diy website, to the cabinet, and a new crossover ( but they don't tell you the parts, they want to sell you a kit), but I'll try the caps first.

[twc644]

Hi TWC,
I have heard of Ed Frias. From what I hear you had to send back not just the crossovers, but the entire speaker. The last I heard or his most recent email that I know of was:
efespeakers@commspeed.net, but when I tried sending it, it bounced back. He may not be doing it anymore, I haven't heard his name recently. He was on this forum a while back, like you say 3 or 4 years ago.
Yes, I'll let you know how it goes with the Insignia's. They are other tweaks you can do I found on a diy website, to the cabinet, and a new crossover ( but they don't tell you the parts, they want to sell you a kit), but I'll try the caps first.


Thanx,I'll be looking forward to your opinion with the new caps and sound. I hope you'll be pleased.At first your speakers may sound a little bright. The sound will smooth out some.Remember,the bass will be tighter and faster sounding--not sloppy bass.So,if they sound a little bass shy this is why ok.


I had a dummy attack.I failed to mention your BIC speakers.This was what i meant regarding Ed Frias and the crossovers.I wonder if the $95-$100 dollar upgrade from GR-Research is worth it for the Insignias ?

[luvtolisten]

Thanx,I'll be looking forward to your opinion with the new caps and sound. I hope you'll be pleased.At first your speakers may sound a little bright. The sound will smooth out some.Remember,the bass will be tighter and faster sounding--not sloppy bass.So,if they sound a little bass shy this is why ok.


I had a dummy attack.I failed to mention your BIC speakers.This was what i meant regarding Ed Frias and the crossovers.I wonder if the $95-$100 dollar upgrade from GR-Research is worth it for the Insignias ?

Thanks for the info, those speakers could be a little brighter, I tweak the treble now about 2db. I'm looking forward to hearing them, I'm hoping to get the caps sometime next week.

I have checked out GR-Research, I may do that too, not in the near future, but somewhere down the road. I'll see how the caps do, it may "inspire" me to do the upgrade sooner.

Last night I read a thread about Ed Frias, that you can just send him the crossovers, and he'll modify them for $45. That thread was about 4 years ago. But he was on this forum just last year. I would like to sent him the crossover's since all the feedback has been great. But he seems to have vanished.

[Kevio]

Unpolarized 200 uf electrolytic capacitors arrived and I've wired them in series external to the speakers. Tweaked things up a bit.

What I'm hearing is more definition in bass. Specifically, I believe I can better hear other things going on in the program when big fat bass notes or drums are also being played.

Because it has less help from the mains. The sub is turned up a little higher than it was. I think that's helping me get a little more very low frequency extension.

I tried moving the crossover frequency on the sub a bit higher but encountered the same uneven bass response with bass notes playing peekaboo.

When I first fired things up, I immediately noticed something had changed in the upper midrange and treble. I've listened for an hour and a half now and I'm no longer hearing that. Some might say I've broken in the capacitors. It's also possible I've just become accustom to and compensated for the new sound.

I'll open the speakers in a few days and move the capacitors to the inside so the tweeters bypass them.

[twc644]

Well,
I just got in my order of the Jantzen Z-Standards(damn I wish my bank acct. allowed me the Z-Superior).Installed them in my brand new Polk Monitor 40's I got last Monday from Newegg-$150.00 free shipping ! Man,these speakers sound like a $900+ pair.

I really like Jantzen caps.These speakers have much cleaner bass...authoritive mind you ! The mids are little forward which I like and the treble is much cleaner.Wont be selling my hot rodded Polks anytime soon that I can gurantee.

I'm enjoying my early punk,Jazz,70's rock,and new wave more and more.Aint nothing like good sound for good tunes.I brought someone over to my apartment to hear my system.I made sure he understood it's not high end stuff.He's ready to buy all used equipment on E-Bay and a whole bunch of Elna Silmic II's and Jantzen capacitors for me to install lol !

I've loved Rock 'n Roll since 1964 when i was born.It's in my blood. Having a system to extract more detail than the norm from the somewhat rare good recordings makes music I've listened too thousands of times all the more enjoyable.

[E-Stat]

What I'm hearing is more definition in bass. Specifically, I believe I can better hear other things going on in the program when big fat bass notes or drums are also being played...Because it has less help from the mains. The sub is turned up a little higher than it was. I think that's helping me get a little more very low frequency extension.
That's been my experience as well.


I tried moving the crossover frequency on the sub a bit higher but encountered the same uneven bass response with bass notes playing peekaboo.
The cause is most likely your room. I put an inexpensive Behringer EQ on the subs and was able to remove a nasty peak and compensate for a corresponding null.

rw

[luvtolisten]

I'll open the speakers in a few days and move the capacitors to the inside so the tweeters bypass them.

Kevio, I'd be very interested to hear your results and thoughts after a few days, I did buy that amp today. Lots of peannut butter sandwiches for me the next month.:smile5:

[luvtolisten]

Well,
I just got in my order of the Jantzen Z-Standards(damn I wish my bank acct. allowed me the Z-Superior).Installed them in my brand new Polk Monitor 40's I got last Monday from Newegg-$150.00 free shipping ! Man,these speakers sound like a $900+ pair.

I really like Jantzen caps.These speakers have much cleaner bass...authoritive mind you ! The mids are little forward which I like and the treble is much cleaner.Wont be selling my hot rodded Polks anytime soon that I can gurantee.

I'm enjoying my early punk,Jazz,70's rock,and new wave more and more.Aint nothing like good sound for good tunes.I brought someone over to my apartment to hear my system.I made sure he understood it's not high end stuff.He's ready to buy all used equipment on E-Bay and a whole bunch of Elna Silmic II's and Jantzen capacitors for me to install lol !

I've loved Rock 'n Roll since 1964 when i was born.It's in my blood. Having a system to extract more detail than the norm from the somewhat rare good recordings makes music I've listened too thousands of times all the more enjoyable.

Good for you! I'm glad they were all you expected and more. I got my caps today, late. I'm listening to the Insigna's now, it's been a while since I used them for 2 channel (I had been using them for back surrounds). I getting familiar with them again, so I can do a "before" and "after" comparison. I'll put the new caps in this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.
By the way, I like your taste in music. I like that stuff from the late 50's, till the late 80's. There is still some good music out there, still, but I don't think we'll ever see a 30 year period like that one.Enjoy!:16: :3:

[twc644]

This time with this current set of speakers I used 95 % Jantzens(Z-Standard).Used .022uf Kimber I had already to parallel those.22uf caps.The 9.1uf and 8uf was nothing but Jantzen.These very sound good with no burn in.They will open up some more in time.Fortunetly,the Standards are 400 volt caps and smaller in size.This helped a lot for the small crossover.

I cant wait till both the Yamaha ax 592 and Polk Monitor 40's get more play time to burn in those caps.The Yamaha sounds phenominal.No Jantzens in it.A bevy of Panasonic fc/tha(power supply),Elna Silmic,Blackgates,Rubycon zl,and Elna Cerafines were used.

I added some not so great caps like Clarity Cap SA and Solens I had onhand in certain areas.I increased the original power supply caps from 12000uf 63 volt to 15000uf 63 volt.This increased capacitance improved the speed and overall bass.It was safe to do this in this circuit but I would'nt feel comfortable going any higher.

The amp handles the increased inrush of current fine and is more dynamic and clean sounding.The older caps were certainly getting close to the end of their lifespan in this amp.I have a feeling they were beginning to dry up.

[twc644]

Hi Luvtolisten,
The Z-Standards I ordered they had in stock at the time.When these caps burn in they most certainly color the sound.To me I like it-they offer warmth and solid bass.Much better than using Solens by themselves and are very affordable capacitors.The Z-Superiors' give more detail and enhance the highs considerably.Sometimes I really prefer the blue colored Standards.The Superiors are wonderful caps to use for the tweeter circuit in speakers.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head regarding the 30 year span of music you mentioned. I hardly hear anything today that I like. A few current bands but only several songs are good imo !

I played a home comp New Age cd earlier today and listened mesmerized. It sounded so good and relaxing...thats something i'm not use too.However,music soothes the savage beast lol ! It worked and my system is not optimally set being crammed in this small Apt. (yes,fantasies winning a lottery to get my school loan and the I.R.S out of my life resonates thru my synapses-then a big beautiful home with the stereo of my dreams).Sorry..went off on a tangent there lol !

Good recordings excell wonderfully. On the other hand,poor recordings still sound terrible-in fact worse at times because the higher grade caps aids in extracting some detail not normally heard when speakers are in stock form. So,especially in mp3's you will hear more of the unwanted artifacts in the recording and in a poorly engineered cd.

Back to the stereo now...............I've left my other system unplugged for the moment. I'm having too much fun with my new to me 2nd two channel system.I dont have any home theatre equipment.I'm trying to hurry up and get all these caps burned in.Some dont believe in burn in so I better stop here before flame wars abound lol !

I'm about done with everything now. It's taken me several years but I've parts swapped 2 el cheapo dvd players(turned into very competent sounding cd players and sound great for movies from the audio portion of the circuits),my computer soundcard,two sets of computer speakers,2 preamps,one amp,one integrated amp,3 pairs of speakers, and three headphone amps lol.All of this done crammed up at a computer desk with the keyboard in the way. I left both my dedicated cd players alone. I've run out of stuff to tear apart and tinker with now.I had other equipment but sold them to fund my current projects.

All of it sure as hell sounds a lot better ! Wait,now I can start focusing on the interior of the speaker cabinets lol !

[Kevio]

The capacitors are now inside the speakers between the crossover and the woofers. I think the treble is cleaned up a bit and imaging improved. Treble is louder too so not an apples to apples comparison. Nevertheless, the change of moving the capacitors inside I don't believe is not as audible/significant as having put capacitors on in the first place.

I did some tone sweeps made some adjustments to subwoofer level and crossover. Noticed a big bump from the subwoofer at 50-60 Hz. Probably the room, not the sub itself. I've taken down the subwoofer level but boosted the bass up 2 dB and cut treble by 2 dB. That flattened the bump a bit and the mains are more balanced with these settings.

I now feel like I have a monitor system I can trust for my recording projects. The bump was fun though. I may invite the bump back for parties.

[twc644]

Glad your happy with it Kevio. An interesting experiment.Sometimes I have to re-read some of your post as I'm not a home theatre guy at all . I tend to forget these settings exist for subwoofers etc.... with your equipment.

I have never used a multichannel amp/ receiver or subwoofer before. I guess I'm seriously old school.I'm sure it's an incredible experience watching movies in your home.

[luvtolisten]

Good Feedback Kevio, thanks for getting back to us. Sounds like it worked out for you.

[luvtolisten]

:thumbsup: I installed the new caps last night, both were Jantzen Standards (1.5uf, 2.2uf). The result is, a better sounding speaker. I did about 3 hours each, of "before" and "after" listening. I know I'm not familiar with all the correct Audio terms, but I'll do the best I can to explain the differences:
1) Detail. I have heard things in these speakers I never heard before. For instance, on a few Johnny Cash songs, I heard a fiddle in the background that would make a brief appearance for each chorus. I never heard this in these speakers before the caps. I have heard in other speakers, costing twice as much as these, I knew it was a string instrument, but couldn't tell what instrument it was. Now I can, not only hear it, but tell what instrument it is,since the new caps.
2) The bass. It's not really any lower, but a whole lot tighter, and seems quicker, it's right there, the bass notes no longer don't blend. Each note is separate, each is precise.
3) The highs. They are higher, but cleaner, not harsh or irritating. Before the were crummy. Not as high, and just congested, and muted.
4) The vocals. Before they sounded, congested. More electronic like, harsh. This speaker, before, well sounded like a cheap speaker. The voices are now full, natural. More detail here too. I was playing Lacy Dalton's "Black Coffee". At the end of the song, she repeats the the lines "Bad feeling, I'm losing you". With the new caps, I now here another female voice, whispering those lines along with here. Before, it was just her singing.
4) More Dynamic. The same song, "Black Coffee", there is a part in the middle off the song where she strums her guitar as she sings "I don't know what to do about it".
Before, this sounded like 'I think I'll do a little strum here, just to to fill in". Now it's for effect. It's an in your face strum, you can hear the anger and frustration in it. It jumps out at you. The same with the bass, with such better tonal quality.
5) Less distortion. These speakers are so much cleaner. Not a little. A Lot. I'm not much of a HT fan, so that's why these speakers became my surrounds, they were okay for short background noises. After hearing them for 10 or 20 minutes, I'd want to turn them off. Now they are such a pleasant non fatiguing speaker. I could listen to these for hours. In fact I have!:6:

Summary:
Yes, I thought the new caps, would make a change, but I didn't think I would get such bang for my buck as I did. So am I ready to switch out my Wharfedale EVO 10's for these speakers? No.
Was it worth the time and effort? You bet your sweet a## it was! I would do it again in a heart beat. This is such a much better sounding speaker, not in just in one specific area, but all the way around from what it was. In fact, I opened my Wharfedales tonight. They have a 4 uf poly cap, which I'll leave alone, But they also have a 20uf, and 22uf electrolytic, which I will replace after the hearing the improvement with Insignia's. Buy the way the Insignia's are on sale at Best Buy for $70 and change. For an extra $20 for the cap upgrade, you would have a pair of speakers that could easily compete favorably with most speakers in the $150/$250 range. IMO it wipes out the Bose 301's (stock).

I want to thank TWC, for starting this thread, his sharing of knowledge, support and enlightening the poor souls like me, who enjoy audio, but don't have the funds to fully support the way we would like too. Way to go 644!:thumbsup:

[hermanv]

The capacitors are now inside the speakers between the crossover and the woofers. I think the treble is cleaned up a bit and imaging improved. Treble is louder too so not an apples to apples comparison. Nevertheless, the change of moving the capacitors inside I don't believe is not as audible/significant as having put capacitors on in the first place.

I did some tone sweeps made some adjustments to subwoofer level and crossover. Noticed a big bump from the subwoofer at 50-60 Hz. Probably the room, not the sub itself. I've taken down the subwoofer level but boosted the bass up 2 dB and cut treble by 2 dB. That flattened the bump a bit and the mains are more balanced with these settings.

I now feel like I have a monitor system I can trust for my recording projects. The bump was fun though. I may invite the bump back for parties.
Two points:
All capacitors are microphonic with films amongst the worst. Practicality prevents a simple solution, but you should be aware of it.
A bump at 50-60Hz could easily be a crossover problem. If your subwoofer has main outputs, they should be used. The drawing sort of shows why.

[luvtolisten]

Hi Luvtolisten,
The Z-Standards I ordered they had in stock at the time.When these caps burn in they most certainly color the sound.To me I like it-they offer warmth and solid bass.Much better than using Solens by themselves and are very affordable capacitors.The Z-Superiors' give more detail and enhance the highs considerably.Sometimes I really prefer the blue colored Standards.The Superiors are wonderful caps to use for the tweeter circuit in speakers.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head regarding the 30 year span of music you mentioned. I hardly hear anything today that I like. A few current bands but only several songs are good imo !

I played a home comp New Age cd earlier today and listened mesmerized. It sounded so good and relaxing...thats something i'm not use too.However,music soothes the savage beast lol ! It worked and my system is not optimally set being crammed in this small Apt. (yes,fantasies winning a lottery to get my school loan and the I.R.S out of my life resonates thru my synapses-then a big beautiful home with the stereo of my dreams).Sorry..went off on a tangent there lol !

Good recordings excell wonderfully. On the other hand,poor recordings still sound terrible-in fact worse at times because the higher grade caps aids in extracting some detail not normally heard when speakers are in stock form. So,especially in mp3's you will hear more of the unwanted artifacts in the recording and in a poorly engineered cd.

Back to the stereo now...............I've left my other system unplugged for the moment. I'm having too much fun with my new to me 2nd two channel system.I dont have any home theatre equipment.I'm trying to hurry up and get all these caps burned in.Some dont believe in burn in so I better stop here before flame wars abound lol !

I'm about done with everything now. It's taken me several years but I've parts swapped 2 el cheapo dvd players(turned into very competent sounding cd players and sound great for movies from the audio portion of the circuits),my computer soundcard,two sets of computer speakers,2 preamps,one amp,one integrated amp,3 pairs of speakers, and three headphone amps lol.All of this done crammed up at a computer desk with the keyboard in the way. I left both my dedicated cd players alone. I've run out of stuff to tear apart and tinker with now.I had other equipment but sold them to fund my current projects.

All of it sure as hell sounds a lot better ! Wait,now I can start focusing on the interior of the speaker cabinets lol !
Hey Twc,
Thanks for the tip on the Jantzen Standards Vs. Superiors. I was going to us all Superiors for my Wharferdales, until I got sticker shock. It would cost $170 per speaker. So I think I'll go with the standards.Until I win the lottery anyway.
I used to be a skeptic about burn in, until I started buy the higher quality stuff. I don't know what the burn in time is for these caps, but my speakers are sounding better all the time, more open. I probably have about 8 or 9 hours on the new caps.
I also opened my Paradigm Titans Speakers, they have a 33uf, electrolytic, (which I will replace).They also have 2 (4.7uf, 2.2uf) caps, which look like either Epoxy or ceramic caps. Think I should replace those too?
I make a lot of compilation CD's too. What program do you use? I've been using Itunes lostless, but I'm new at this. I still think the CD's I've made with my Philips CD recorder, still sound better. Oh, oh, I hope the pc gods don't come down on me!

[twc644]

Man I'm up way past my bedtime. Gotta be at work at 5am lol. Hey Luvtolisten-I'm so happy for ya bud ! I'm glad you see what I'm talking about with better capacitors.I'm sure there are other brands that offer good quality similar to the blue Jantzen Standards but I'm not at a financial liberty to take a chance on something else.

I've tried quite a few mind you.However,several months back I decided to buy some of the Superiors to use as bypass on the already installed Solens in another set of speakers. Wow,after a little burn in I was astonished.Maybe due to most of my equipment has a slightly higher resolution in sound from me working on most of it where it's not in stock form anymore and replacing aging parts.

I bought some of the Standards to try in another speaker...again,the wow factor as it turned a not so good sounding speaker into a very smooth warm sounding beast.Certain elevator jazz and new age just sounds doggone phenominal.

I decided to keep buying the Standards now as I really like these for the price. They cant be beat unless you go up much higher dollar wise. Then you hit the red Dynamicaps---those are flat out excellent.

To answer your question #1: I use a standard Nero burn program that came with my computer for cd-r's. I make sure they are ripped and burned at 320kbps.When I use my headphone equipment with the computer I use zero compression in wave format for the music.

#2 regarding your question about your little Paradigms. I think you already know my answer---yes,if you can afford to change out those caps.If anything use some Standards(around .33uf) to parallel the 33uf electrolytics.The others I say yes to replacing them at those small capacitance values(2.2 + 4.7uf).If the Standards are too much money right now then replace the smaller ones with Jantzen cross caps or Solens

#3 The caps will smooth out a little more over time. A nice change !
I've passed this info on to many folks over the years that were not aware of it.Most were not electronics savvy and could not perform the required task or could find a tech to do it.Many times , I offered to do it for them if they could handle removing the crossover and sending it to me. Several took me up on my offer and were extremely happy with the end results.Others thought I was trying to con them and figured it was too good to be true since he's(me Tim Cowart) offered to do it for free.Their loss unfortunately.

With you, since you took a keen interestI knew this would turn out to be a very positive situation with good results.Now,you can use this little tidbit of tweaking for your personal gain and hopefully spread the word to others.The end result is wonderful sound so whats wrong with that ya know .

I decided to do this myself about 15 years ago when I read an article about caps in an audio magazine.You were very limited with choices with poly caps back then.So,I had a Mitsubishi vcr that needed work beyond my skills at the time. I talked the repair technician into selling me some General Electric poly caps NOT intended for audio.They still beat the hell out of the stock electrolytics in those little JBL's . I was amazed literally.Those caps by todays standards would be a joke.

I wound up going to his home and doing the same mod for him after he borrowed my speakers. In return he fixed my vcr. He was just floored his huge Klipsch could sound so much better because the horn loaded midrange and tweeters really adapted well to this tweak.Gone was the loud distorted ear piercing harshness.

So, this is the little secret with many manufactuers.They may implement a well designed crossover but they install sub par passive components.They have to make some form of profit so they cant buy thousands of the better caps to use.Otherwise,the price of the speaker will have to be increased exponentially .

When I have very bad recordings I run them thru some equalizing software,then encode them to 320kbps,then burn. The software which is the free version I've been using for years is Goldwave if interested. It took me awhile to experiment with it but it can help a lot. Here is a link if interested http://www.goldwave.com/

Now that your happy....I'm happy .Great job and Kudos to ya Luvtolisten !

[Kevio]

Two points:
All capacitors are microphonic with films amongst the worst. Practicality prevents a simple solution, but you should be aware of it.
A bump at 50-60Hz could easily be a crossover problem. If your subwoofer has main outputs, they should be used. The drawing sort of shows why.I turned off the mains and set the subwoofer LP to 150 Hz. The bump was still there. I therefore concluded that it was not a crossover issue.

This whole exercise of putting these capacitors in is to HP my mains so that they get along better with the sub. Others on this thread are doing one-for-one replacements of existing capacitors.

Cables are microphonic too. Microphonic contributions are quite small and generally only a concern in high-gain circuits such as a phono or mic preamp.

[luvtolisten]

Man I'm up way past my bedtime. Gotta be at work at 5am lol. Hey Luvtolisten-I'm so happy for ya bud ! I'm glad you see what I'm talking about with better capacitors.I'm sure there are other brands that offer good quality similar to the blue Jantzen Standards but I'm not at a financial liberty to take a chance on something else.

Me neither, the next step up is a big one price wise. I think those Jantzen Standards are the best kept secret. They really made a big difference. It cost me about $25. Probably the best value, bang for buck, I've ever spend on an audio upgrade.,

I've tried quite a few mind you.However,several months back I decided to buy some of the Superiors to use as bypass on the already installed Solens in another set of speakers. Wow,after a little burn in I was astonished.Maybe due to most of my equipment has a slightly higher resolution in sound from me working on most of it where it's not in stock form anymore and replacing aging parts.


I bought some of the Standards to try in another speaker...again,the wow factor as it turned a not so good sounding speaker into a very smooth warm sounding beast.Certain elevator jazz and new age just sounds doggone phenominal.

I decided to keep buying the Standards now as I really like these for the price. They cant be beat unless you go up much higher dollar wise. Then you hit the red Dynamicaps---those are flat out excellent.

I checked out the Dynamicaps, yikes they are pricey!! I found a capacitor shootout, online, with various classes of capacitors, ( according to material). The Dynamicaps were rated second in it's class. The ones rated first we really pricey. I believe .1 uf was $196 (ea), a 1 uf was $320(ea). Now maybe if I won the lottery..........and Bill Gates was my long lost relative....

To answer your question #1: I use a standard Nero burn program that came with my computer for cd-r's. I make sure they are ripped and burned at 320kbps.When I use my headphone equipment with the computer I use zero compression in wave format for the music.

I've heard Foobar is popular too, but I haven't spent the time reading the instructions I should to take advantage of it's features. To me anyway, it's not all that user friendly.

#2 regarding your question about your little Paradigms. I think you already know my answer---yes,if you can afford to change out those caps.If anything use some Standards(around .33uf) to parallel the 33uf electrolytics.The others I say yes to replacing them at those small capacitance values(2.2 + 4.7uf).If the Standards are too much money right now then replace the smaller ones with Jantzen cross caps or Solens

Yes, you're right, I did read your note late last night and ordered all the caps this morning. Can't wait till they come in!

#3 The caps will smooth out a little more over time. A nice change !
I've passed this info on to many folks over the years that were not aware of it.Most were not electronics savvy and could not perform the required task or could find a tech to do it.Many times , I offered to do it for them if they could handle removing the crossover and sending it to me. Several took me up on my offer and were extremely happy with the end results.Others thought I was trying to con them and figured it was too good to be true since he's(me Tim Cowart) offered to do it for free.Their loss unfortunately.

To be honest, I was skeptical too, without hearing it. But hearing is believing!
A friend sent me this video, of a guy selling a battery operated screwdriver with 1/2 inch torque settings. He said you needed to take all the steel screws that your hold drivers in your speakers, and replace them with brass screws. He claimed the brass screws greatly improved the sound. Of course you have to have one of those battery screwdrivers, since the torque on each screw had to be with 1/2 of each other, or all bets were off. He was selling the screwdriver for $269, plus shipping, which he doesn't mention, but is on the website.. Here's the video:

http://www.virtualdynamics.ca/the-oddiophile-eps-1

With you, since you took a keen interestI knew this would turn out to be a very positive situation with good results.Now,you can use this little tidbit of tweaking for your personal gain and hopefully spread the word to others.The end result is wonderful sound so whats wrong with that ya know .

Oh, I have been, telling people, and referred them to this thread, this is great!!

I decided to do this myself about 15 years ago when I read an article about caps in an audio magazine.You were very limited with choices with poly caps back then.So,I had a Mitsubishi vcr that needed work beyond my skills at the time. I talked the repair technician into selling me some General Electric poly caps NOT intended for audio.They still beat the hell out of the stock electrolytics in those little JBL's . I was amazed literally.Those caps by todays standards would be a joke.

I wound up going to his home and doing the same mod for him after he borrowed my speakers. In return he fixed my vcr. He was just floored his huge Klipsch could sound so much better because the horn loaded midrange and tweeters really adapted well to this tweak.Gone was the loud distorted ear piercing harshness.

So, this is the little secret with many manufactuers.They may implement a well designed crossover but they install sub par passive components.They have to make some form of profit so they cant buy thousands of the better caps to use.Otherwise,the price of the speaker will have to be increased exponentially .

When I have very bad recordings I run them thru some equalizing software,then encode them to 320kbps,then burn. The software which is the free version I've been using for years is Goldwave if interested. It took me awhile to experiment with it but it can help a lot. Here is a link if interested http://www.goldwave.com/

I haven't yet, but I will check out the website and give it a look.

Now that your happy....I'm happy .Great job and Kudos to ya Luvtolisten
!

Happy? I'll say! It's like trading in your old speakers for a new pair, for $30 or less, for ones worth twice the price of the originals! So clean, so good on the ears.

[twc644]

I actually chuckled watching the video.Ironically, today I had to use a much larger manual socket version of that one set at 200lbs.....yep,that much on a universal for a piece of machinery at work.I almost busted a gut doing it as I'm not a big dude.

Oh,by the way,speaking of caps....Mrs. Jantzen is a very nice lady. I correspond with her occasionally.She told me most customers comment on the Z- Silver and Z-Superiors.She was elated to hear from me regarding the Standards as I might be the first or of the very few who's commented on them. I'm also sure as long as I'm buying it's keeping her in business.But,they make an excellent product and have every right to be proud.

[jvds]

Hi, new to the forum and not sure I am doing this correctly. so please forgive if so.
I have quad 989's and recently developed noise in one of them that resembles a gieger counter, sort of tick, tick tick at random intervals not in a repetative pattern. I called the US repair guys and they said its a panel. I doubt it, I called the guy who built my amps (joe fratus of art audio) who uses quads and he immediately thought bad cap. I was thinking power supply. does anyone have any thoughts here. shipping and repair will be many hundreds. a cap would be fairly cheap.

[luvtolisten]

Hi, new to the forum and not sure I am doing this correctly. so please forgive if so.
I have quad 989's and recently developed noise in one of them that resembles a gieger counter, sort of tick, tick tick at random intervals not in a repetative pattern. I called the US repair guys and they said its a panel. I doubt it, I called the guy who built my amps (joe fratus of art audio) who uses quads and he immediately thought bad cap. I was thinking power supply. does anyone have any thoughts here. shipping and repair will be many hundreds. a cap would be fairly cheap.

Personally, I have never had that problem with a cap in a speaker, not that it's not possible, I have just never seen it.Most caps are more likely to short, or open up. I would swap the speakers, left with the right, and see if the ticking sound follows the same speaker..If so, it's the speaker,( the cap, or a bad connection) if not then it's your amp, or maybe even the source. You may need to swap out them as well, with a known good amp or source.

[twc644]

I'm sorry to say I know absolutely nothing about electrostatic speakers.It is possible as mentioned previously a panel is starting to fail as well as a bad capacitor...now,whether the suspect cap is in a crossover network in your speakers or in your amp is another matter.

Luvtolisten gave sound advice..try his method first to hopefully isolate the problem as to which speaker and/or if the problem lies in your amp and check any and all connections.

If it is a cap..well,they can go south without them bulging or leaking to the naked eye.I once had a defective film cap that looked just fine but it caused a massive amount of distortion in the sound..it was the only time i experienced a bad film capacitor.Good luck and please keep us informed.If you see one of the small can shaped capacitors(electrolytic type)either blown open or bulging at the seams then it's a sure bet it needs to be replaced if this is the case in any of your associated equipment.There is another possibility you have a cold solder joint somewhere on a circuit board that needs re-heating with fresh solder.

I hope this is not a transistor starting to overheat and fail in your amp.You need to open your equipment and visually inspect it also to see if anything is burnt or overheating.Could be a bad resistor somewhere...so many possibilities i'm sorry to say.

[hermanv]

Electrostatic speakers operate with a high bias voltage on the panels, it could be as high as several thousand volts. I don't know about the Quads, but others do this. Dirt or pet hair could cause a bridge that lowers the discharge voltage. This would definitely result in a clicking noise.

Blowing out the dust is the answer. Power down the speakers, wait overnight or at least a few hours for any panel voltage to leak off and then access the panel to blow out any dirt. Use a corner wand on a vacuum cleaner that has a hose and a blow out hose connection.

Do not use water, cleaner or abrasive action on the panels as they have a conductive coating.

[eryeal]

TWC,

Can you link to the exact caps you put in your Monitor 40 and Monitor 30's? I'm looking to do the exact same thing as I just got mine and want to replace the stock caps, but am a complete noob so I don't know which ones to get / what uf V etc. Thanks!

[harley .guy07]

I have reworked the crossovers in my paradigm speakers and have made custom tweeter mods and put 11/8" soft dome tweeters since the stock paradigm units where way too bright and if you juiced them they would blow fairly easy. I do believe you can improve a system with mods to a certain degree but at some point it is just better to upgrade because there are limitations to mods. I am in the process of thinking about changing main speakers because I am at the end of the mods that can make the best out of my monitor 7's and after 15 years with them I am just ready for an upgrade.

[luvtolisten]

TWC,

Can you link to the exact caps you put in your Monitor 40 and Monitor 30's? I'm looking to do the exact same thing as I just got mine and want to replace the stock caps, but am a complete noob so I don't know which ones to get / what uf V etc. Thanks!

Hi eryeal, and welcome! I don't know about the Monitor 30's, but I do own the Monitor 40's. To get to the caps, you have to unscrew the 4 screws on the plate for the binding posts on the back of the speaker. Slowly slide it out and you'll see a printed circuit board with the capacitors. You'll need a 8.0 uf and a 9.1 uf. The new capacitors are larger. You may want to mount them on the opposite side of the board, to give you a little more room. TWC644 used Jantzen Standards. They are 400 VDC and good size. For the 8.0uf you will have to put a 3.3 uf 4.7uf in parallel (piggy back or twist both ends together) to get 8.0uf. For the 9.1 uf, the 2.2uf and 6.8 uf in parallel. (I know it comes out to 9.0 uf, but better to be a little low than high, since there are no two values on the chart when added equal 9.1)
Myself, I would just get the Solen 9.1uf, and two Dayton 4.0uf ( they are smaller 250V easier to work with) in parallel to make the 8 uf cap. All these caps are good quality, depending how much you want to spent. I have been happy with the Dayton caps. But stay away from the electrolytic caps, that's what you have in there now, and you wouldn't notice any difference. Here is the website:
http://www.parts-express.com/crossover-capacitor-index.cfm?CFID=31270630&CFTOKEN=42219436
If you do order, go with Fed Express, the extra cost is worth it.( unless you don't mind waiting a month or so), if don't then use the SmartPost , or US Postal.

[pixelthis]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I AM SURE the good folks at B&W know more about cross
overs than I DO.
Caps should last a long time, I have seen them last decades, although any refurb
worth its salt would involve replacing old caps.
I don't use the main out on my sub, because when I am in music mode, I don't use a
sub, and I like to keep the path "clear" as possible. Did I miss anything here?
AND THE "BUMP" could be anything, rule out the obvious first.:1:

[eryeal]

Hi eryeal, and welcome! I don't know about the Monitor 30's, but I do own the Monitor 40's. To get to the caps, you have to unscrew the 4 screws on the plate for the binding posts on the back of the speaker. Slowly slide it out and you'll see a printed circuit board with the capacitors. You'll need a 8.0 uf and a 9.1 uf. The new capacitors are larger. You may want to mount them on the opposite side of the board, to give you a little more room. TWC644 used Jantzen Standards. They are 400 VDC and good size. For the 8.0uf you will have to put a 3.3 uf 4.7uf in parallel (piggy back or twist both ends together) to get 8.0uf. For the 9.1 uf, the 2.2uf and 6.8 uf in parallel. (I know it comes out to 9.0 uf, but better to be a little low than high, since there are no two values on the chart when added equal 9.1)
Myself, I would just get the Solen 9.1uf, and two Dayton 4.0uf ( they are smaller 250V easier to work with) in parallel to make the 8 uf cap. All these caps are good quality, depending how much you want to spent. I have been happy with the Dayton caps. But stay away from the electrolytic caps, that's what you have in there now, and you wouldn't notice any difference. Here is the website:
http://www.parts-express.com/crossover-capacitor-index.cfm?CFID=31270630&CFTOKEN=42219436
If you do order, go with Fed Express, the extra cost is worth it.( unless you don't mind waiting a month or so), if don't then use the SmartPost , or US Postal.

Thanks - you are very kind to go into this detail! I'll be placing my order and seeing how I do - this is a big help.

[eryeal]

And P.S...

This forum/topic also helped me with my Monitor 30's and other speakers to get the schematics and find out what caps to get:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38755

Also if anyone else is buying from parts-express.com, use promo code SAVE52010 to save $5 on a $50 order.

[luvtolisten]

Thanks - you are very kind to go into this detail! I'll be placing my order and seeing how I do - this is a big help.
Glad to help! If you have any questions, anyone of us would be glad tp help you too. Please get back and let us know how you make out.

[twc644]

Eryal,
How goes it ? Sorry,I dont remember the cap values but others took care of that for you. Also,the speakers benefit from changing out the small green poly caps.I replaced every capacitor and the resistors in mine.Good luck and hope you'll let us know the results.

[hermanv]

Dayton caps are so so in my opinion. I would buy Reliable caps from Michael Percy, multi-foil PPFX or better if you can afford them. They are large, generally higher voltage caps are supposed to sound better than the lower voltage models even in the same type. I have used several models of Reliable caps and find they sound very good. Higher cost models tend to sound a little better.

http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
See page 5.

See also these capacitor comparison sites:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

http://www.altavistaaudio.com/caps.html

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0

[twc644]

Ya know the one thing I could never figure is why a capacitor with the same uf but higher voltage sounds better than one with a lower voltage ?

The Reliable capacitors are of good quality as I've used some in the past.Better quality caps do indeed help. I can vouch for the ppfx from Reliable also.

[hermanv]

Ya know the one thing I could never figure is why a capacitor with the same uf but higher voltage sounds better than one with a lower voltage ?

The Reliable capacitors are of good quality as I've used some in the past.Better quality caps do indeed help. I can vouch for the ppfx from Reliable also.The higher voltage caps have a thicker dielectric. Why that sounds better I don't know. From my understanding of "break in" the thicker dielectric should need more time.

[twc644]

Hmmm..you made a valid point and food for thought.

[gomer3325]

Hi There,

I am a newcomer to the audiophile world, just getting started purchasing a components and speakers a few months ago. I have been pretty happy with the monitors mentioned in this post as a set of surrounds, but I am considering upgrading the capacitors after reading this. After doing some research, I am considering putting in some claritycap SA's or a Claritycap SA/Jantzen superior mix. Your thoughts? And Also, I am a novice when it comes to circuits and soldering, the other reason I was thinking of using the Monitor 40's as they are an inexpensive test bed. And after hearing the other poster's results, It's got me wanting to try. How would I remove the solder from the previous caps? Could I just trim off the cap at the base of the capacitor, leave the wire from it exposed, and solder the new one on there? or is there a preferred method? does anyone know of a DIY tutorial with pictures I could reference to get the procedures down? Your help is appreciated, Thanks!!

[hermanv]

Desoldering covers a fair amount of experience and knowledge.

There are two good ways of removing solder. 1. Is the use of a desolder braid and 2. Is the use of a suction device. Braid absorbs solder with a capillary action works ell but the braid is used up in the process. Suction devices vary from a surgical rubber bulb on a hollow solder tip to a spring loaded "solder sucker". Even motorized pumps are available.

Sometimes you can heat existing solder and pull or unwrap a component lead (never pull on the body of a component, use needle nose to pull on the lead)

All the techniques need some experience to be at their best.

The problem is severe enough that applying it to inexpensive products will produce results below the cost and effort.

[gomer3325]

Thank you for your response! which would you recommend as a better method? or is this just something I will have to experiment with and gain experience in?

[hermanv]

Thank you for your response! which would you recommend as a better method? or is this just something I will have to experiment with and gain experience in?The braid is the easiest to learn, and results are visible.

[gomer3325]

Okay, I will look into that. Probably going to get shelved for a minute as I have to go to Louisiana on business for the next month. Can't carry them in my luggage, lol!

[twc644]

Well,here it is 4 years later since starting this thread and wondering if anyone else has modded their speaker crossovers and noticed any improvements.Would like to hear any opinions.I finally finished recapping my nad c-270 amp(main power supply caps)before they explode which has happened on several occasions since NAD used crappy capacitors and I've had this amp since 2000 . I aquired a Yamaha ax 700 integrated amp and completely recapped it as well since it's 27 years old and friggin love it's sound.Really has authoritive bass response that puts my NAD amp to shame.Let me hear from you guys to hear what'cha done. Luvtolisten are you still around bud ?

[StevenSurprenant]

Well, when I first built my speakers I was using an electronic crossover and bi-amping. I got tired of the complexity so I decided to build a passive crossover. The first cap I used on the tweeter was the one that came with it ( I have no idea what brand it was). It was a step down in clarity from the bi-amp set up. I then used what was reviewed as a very good audiophile capacitor (I forgot the brand and am too lazy to find it in my parts bin) which resulted in a marked improvement that equaled the bi-amp set up. Finally I bought Mundorf silver/oil which was a vast improvement over the previous cap and the bi-amp set up. I guess that goes to show you that electronic crossovers and bi-amping doesn't always equal the highest quality.

As for what improved with the Mundorf... everything! To make a long story short, I haven't given any more thought about upgrading the cap since I put it in. It was expensive, but was worth every penny and I wouldn't think about using anything else, not now, not ever.

As for the coils I use a mix of foil and wire. I'm not sure one is better than the other. I think the foil looks better.

I use a simple 6db slope crossover. I tried several other configurations and slopes and in the end the simplest sounded the best to me.

I realize that you were talking about recapping electronics, but I haven't had to do that. I bought my t-amp with upgraded input caps and have considered taking it a notch up to better caps, but am unsure if it would improve the sound, or for that matter which caps to use in an upgrade.

I have recently switched over to battery power for my amp which has made a substantial improvement in the sound.

Anyway, like you, I have come to realize what a decent capacitor can do. I noticed that you mentioned bass and that is important, but for me it's all about clarity, micro-details, air, and soundstaging. That is what I hear as the greatest improvements in the sound.

I hope this thread continues and others here tell us their stories.

[luvtolisten]

Well,here it is 4 years later since starting this thread and wondering if anyone else has modded their speaker crossovers and noticed any improvements.Would like to hear any opinions.I finally finished recapping my nad c-270 amp(main power supply caps)before they explode which has happened on several occasions since NAD used crappy capacitors and I've had this amp since 2000 . I aquired a Yamaha ax 700 integrated amp and completely recapped it as well since it's 27 years old and friggin love it's sound.Really has authoritive bass response that puts my NAD amp to shame.Let me hear from you guys to hear what'cha done. Luvtolisten are you still around bud ?

Hellooooooooooooooo TW! I'm alive and well, how have you been? I don't get on here as often as I once did, since the new format, Just not used to it yet, and I find it more difficult to find older threads myself. They just don't list as many as they once did.

I think you created a monster (me) with the recapping. Since we last spoke I've really been bitten by the "vintage bug". I've acquired a lot of nice old speakers (35-40 pair) through garage sales, Craigslist, Good Will etc dirt cheap.. I've learned how to re-foam them as well, so by doing that and re-capping them, I've been having a ball. Some of the vintage speakers I have acquired are (70's to early 90's) are Polk, Wharfedale, Klipsch, Genesis, EPI, Infinity, Radio Shack, ADC, Bose are the ones that come to mind.I did re-cap an old Magnavox console, which wasn't working since I had nothing to lose, (my first bit of electronics re-capping) and brought it back to life. It's not tube, but solid state, probably late 60's or early 70's. It's a nostalgia thing. Also I picked up a Harman Kardon 430, Sony 3500 and a couple more entry level Sonys and a Yamaha from the early to mid 70's. I do like the sound of those older recievers, and they were built so much better than the ones you find in the "big box" stores now. I have a room just dedicated to audio. Nothing great, but a lot of fun. It's fun to swap different speakers in and out. The first thing I did when I got another pair of speakers was re-cap them. I think a lot of people get tired of their older speakers, due to the sound and distortion due to the age of the caps in them. But due to cost, I have been using the Dayton caps from Parts Express. I find they do the job quite well, for the price/performance ratio.

[twc644]

Steven,I agree with you completely as it's not just all about bass but soundstaging and air between the instruments.I've been tempted to purchase Mundorf silver/oil but the price has held me back.I second guess myself constantly about them and i'm sure if i'd just man up and pay the price i'd be thankful to myself as I've never tried caps that expensive.Lately,the highest end caps purchased were Jantzen z-silver.

Luvtolisten...duuuuude good to hear from you ! glad your having a ball with the speaker mods.I still pop the hood on my equipment all the time after perusing service manuals wondering what can I do next.....addiction for me lol ! I just finished changing out several caps on the tone control circuit on my Onkyo p-304 preamp trying desperately to like it.I pretty much re-capped it back in 2008 from front to back with the exception of the tone circuit.Now thats done and I've got Pandora piped thru it.I've tried selling it many times losing out on fees to post it so I decided to just keep it and use it.

Just last week I replaced the four 10,000uf power supply caps in my NAD C-270 amp.Replaced all the smaller caps about 5 years ago.Bought it back in 2000 and it's been high maintenance ever since.Never sounded all that great and got hot really quick.Some years back I found a service manual for it and adjusted the bias and dc offset.After the cap replacement,bias,and dc offset adjustment it runs just fine now.If anyone owns this particular amp or gets one used I would seriously recommend the owner to do the same as I have to keep it in use for years to come.They really used low grade caps in it and it is a known fact the power supply caps have a tendency to explode.

I found a thread on another site regarding the Cambridge Audio 640c cd player I own and man these guys were very detailed regarding specific capacitors to change out.They were right as I followed their instructions and man the bass is more pronounced,stereo separation is better,and more detail from music. It's an ideal candidate as this player has not one but two Wolfsen dacs.I'm even happier with it !

Anyway,really good to hear from ya and Steve thanks for your input also.Hope more chime in with their projects.