Some Advice On Speaker Upgrades [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums


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04-08-2009, 03:11 PM
Im going to be moving soon and my new house is going to have a dedicated HT room. Im going to go with a Front Projector screen setup. This will be mainly used for Movies and HD Sports. I can watch regular TV upstairs. Here my question Right now I currently have a 5.1 setup I have Studo20.4 for my Fronts and One 20v.4 for my center channel. I have ADP 470V3 for my back surrounds. I have an older Yamaha 5890 Reciever. I have an SVS sub so im cool with that, but I was thinking up upgrading other parts of my system. I dont have a huge budget to spend but i can do it overtime. The room size will be about 20x13 maybe a little bigger. What upgrades would you recommend that would give me the most bang for the buck. I was going to go 7.1 since it will be a dedicated HT. Any comments appreciated.

04-08-2009, 05:28 PM
How much are you willing to spend? And are you happy with your speakers? I'm not a fan of 7.1, too many speakers. I'd rather have better speakers for a 5.1 set up.

Mr Peabody
04-08-2009, 05:41 PM
If your Yamaha isn't HDMI, I'd recommend a newer receiver. In the mass market brands I personally favor Onkyo who in my opinion has a better amp section than any competitor sold in big box stores. I think you have a decent speaker set up. One other thought is to upgrade to another Yamaha who seems to offer real preamp outs in a reasonable price range and then add an external amp. You go true separates beyond that and I believe you said you were on a budget.

04-08-2009, 09:37 PM
What I had planned on was to buy studio 60 or 100 for the fronts move the studio 20's to the rears and use the ADP on the sides. I would still need to buy the 590 CC to go with the fronts and sell my lone studio 20 or use it in a 2 ch setup later. I would definetly like to get a better receiver not to crazy but definetly HDMI. I also thought of getting a amp to run the fronts especially if i get the 100's, but that i would have to add on later. What do you think of that idea? I figure that would run around 3000 I figure if i can find a good deal on the 100's for lets say 1500 and the CC for 500 that would leave me 1000 for the Amp and New Receiver. Does this sound feasible and do you think if would make a huge difference.

04-08-2009, 10:46 PM
Sounds like a plan. Take a look at the Onkyo Tx SR806 AVR. Plenty of power (140wpc) and all the bells and whistles for home theater. The 806 should have no problem driuving the Studio 100's. I listened to the Studio 100's on a 60wpc Jolida integrated and it played plenty loud and sounded great. It even drove the Signiture series with out problems.

The studio's are fairly efficient speakers and have a minimum power rating of 15wpc.

I would try to swing the 100's over the 60's. They have better bass than the 60's.

04-09-2009, 04:55 AM
So you would go with the Onkyo over the Denon 2809CI .

04-09-2009, 05:45 PM
If I was going to go with a Denon, it would be the 3808CI. It has a better power supply.
I would probably go with the Onkyo 806 over the Denon 2808. The onkyo has more power and it is supposed to be easier to set up. Denon's from what I understand are not very user friendly. And after browsing one of their manuals I would tend to agree.

04-09-2009, 11:29 PM
First let me say that my philosophy on home theater systems differs from many here. Here are some alternative thoughts.

I believe that large floorstanding speakers are best for stereo systems without a sub. Decent subs take over from the main speakers in a 5.1 or 7.1 system usually at about 80Hz. What then is the reason for a large speaker that extends down to below 80z when the sub handles those frequencies much better than the floorstanding speaker?

Sometimes the large speaker will have multiple tweeters and midrange drivers which adds power handling ability. Unfortunately those with the large front speakers usually run the mains and the sub both on the bass frequencies below 80Hz. This is a bad idea which tends to cause lots of muddy lows and bass phase issues. The large speakers reproducing the low bass cause unwanted standing waves and bass peaks that make for muddy and boomy bass. It is not practical to move the mains to eliminate this problem. Sub(s) can almost always be placed where they produce flat and clean bass.

My ideal system is one with excellent bookshelf speakers and a center that have high power handling for loud reproduction when needed. A superior sub (or two) is necessary. Many people splurge on the mains and add a sub almost as an after thought. Let the sub take over from 80Hz and down. This will save you lots of money (except for the needed speaker stands). It will give you cleaner more defined sound and imaging in the mids and highs with the smaller enclosure. The sub will play the frequencies below 80Hz more defined, and much lower with less distortion.

You didn't mention what model of SVS sub you have. You definitely have one of the best sub brands made. I am presuming you are using the Studio 20 V4 as the center in a vertical orientation (and not over on its side). This in my opinion is the ideal configuration across the front, three identical speakers. I'm presuming the 20 4 and 20V4 are almost identical.

I think you have a very good setup already. I agree that the improvement from 5.1 to 7.1 is minimal in most rooms unless it is quite large/long. With your ADP 470V3's you should have a very good surround spread. Normally they should be on the side walls. If you insist on adding a floorstanding speaker the 60 would be fine (crossed to the sub at 80 Hz, no lower with all 5 or 7 speakers set to "small" and not large). The 100's are a waste of money IMO for frequency reproduction that is much better handled by the sub. The large floorstanding speakers will have about 3dB's more efficiency which will be offset by the superior amps I list below. If you consider adding any speaker I would first add a second SVS sub to give consistant low bass coverage to all seats.

I might suggest you consider buying the Onkyo TX-SR606 or the new TX-SR607 if you want to consider Dolby PLIIz (which probably would be more effective than 7.1). Use the Onkyo as a pre/pro until you udgrade to a separate pre/pro in the future.

For a separate amp there are two choices. From Emotiva the 5 channel XPA-5 or the 7channel UPA-7. If you get the XPA-5 you can later add the UPA-2 for channels 6 and 7. I own the XPA-5 which is one fine brute of an amp at an amazing price. Don't be fooled by the prices. Emotiva is an American designer that has their products manufactured in China and sells direct to the end user.

Soon the Emotiva state of the art UMC-1 pre/pro will be out for $699.


04-10-2009, 08:10 AM
Okay now we have a discussion going. Your right about the 3 speakers in the front they are the exact same i just bought a 590 CC to change the center one. I have an older SVS the 20-39 PCI. So you would move the center back to the rears and just buy another 20v4 to go with it so that would be 4 20v4 CC590 ADP 470 on sides and 2 SVS 20-39. I assume you need the exact same sub to run two of them to make them sound right. I would like for other Forum members to comment on this so i can get a lot of different options.

04-10-2009, 10:41 AM
I would like for other Forum members to comment on this so i can get a lot of different options.
I also vote for satellite mains and dual sub approach, but for a different reason. Room effects in the 60 hz-200 hz range are unavoidable. In the music system upstairs I have complete latitude in terms of speaker placement (along with that of a forest of bass traps) and can achieve dead neutral response in that critical range, but it requires that the speakers be 8 feet out into the room and that I employ a dozen columns which don't exactly fit into most room decor.

With my modest HT in the den, however, I am constrained by placement and WAF. There I run a third octave EQ on the active subs alone - so as not to compromise the main signal - crossing them over a bit higher than one would normally use for a sub to ensure that they can participate in the room mode correction. I have a nasty peak centered around 60 hz and valley an octave later that require pretty significant correction. I think there is a pic in my gallery for reference.


04-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Just to clarify my opinion. If you want a 5.1 system, I would return the CC590 and use the three 20 V4's across the front, left, right and center with the ADP 470's on the side walls. If you insist on having the CC590 as center then I would move one of the 20 V4's to the middle of the rear wall and have a 6.1 system.

If you insist on having a 7.1 system then I would use the three 20 V4's as LCR, the 2 ADP 470's as side surrounds and buy two ADP 590's as the rear surrounds. Keeping the CC590, 4ea 20 V4's and 2 ADP 470's would be the 7.1 setup like you mentioned.

I would get SVS's opinion on which exact cylinder model to match your older 20-39PCI.

Mr Peabody
04-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Unless they are there and not listed the 606 does not have preamp outputs and after looking at the 806 feature list I don't think it does either. Both have MC input but no output listed. I helped a guy set up a Yamaha and I know some of their models have preamp outs, if using an external amp the Yamaha won't be so bad but if only using the receiver stick with the Onkyo. If the Emotiva preamp with HDMI is available their separates could be an option especially if saving money on not buying larger speakers.

04-10-2009, 01:41 PM
Thanks Mr. P for the correction and watchful eyes!

Sorry Darth for my mistake. The Onkyo line has pre outs starting with the 700 series. The 806 and 706 do have pre outs but are rather expensive as a pre for you.

Maybe the Yamaha RXV665 would be a good choice at $470.

(note that the Emotiva UPA-7 amp is on sale at $539 thru Sunday, April 12th)

RR6 :o

04-13-2009, 05:05 AM
So does the Emotiva Pre-Pro and the Emotiva 7ch amp have the pre-outs I would need to run the two Subs. Is the Pre-Pro going to be better than using the Yamaha 665 as a pre as far as processing goes.

04-13-2009, 05:52 AM
The Emotiva UMC-1 will be on a whole different level of performance above any of the receivers mentioned as a pre/pro if you decide to go that way. Two subs are no problem with either the receiver or the separate pre/pro, one just uses a y/splitter.

The UMC-1 is on the same general level of performance as the new Onkyo Pro PR-SC886 that will soon be released at about $1400 street. This is the upgrade to the Onkyo PR-SC885/Integra 9.8 (same unit) that sells at Amazon for $1491.

04-13-2009, 07:21 AM
So bascially for a price of 1300 or so the Emotiva Pre-Pro and 7 Chanel amp is about the best setup you can get for the money.

04-13-2009, 09:11 AM
Nothing else comes close IMO. They are a small company and sometimes you have to wait for their products to be in stock (new shipment from China). However, The price/performance and superb customer service is unmatched in my experience.

04-14-2009, 04:09 AM
I read somewhere on the Emotiva forum that there is a wait list for the UMC-1 pre/pro. Any ideas on this.

04-14-2009, 05:38 AM
I am on the wait list for the more expensive XMC-1 since it includes a phono input which I want. The UMC-1 should be out soon, Call them and ask. They are very nice people to talk to over the phone. Well worth the wait IMO.