Blade Running into 2009

[Auricauricle]

In the spirit of the bright and informed discussion of 2001, I thought that I would begin a new thread devoted to one of our all-time favorites, Blade Runner. This movie is one of science-fiction film's best, and is composed of elements that more than stand on their own: Soundtrack, cinematography, story....Some decry the acting in the movie, leveling many of their criticisms towards Harrison Ford, whose characterisation has been described as "wooden", etc. In either case, this movie packs a huge punch to many who watch it, and, as I said is one of my favorites....

Okay, guys, dig in....Should Blade Runner be called a classic? Why or why not? Who's got the beer and chicken....This is gonna take some talkin'!

[audio amateur]

Haven't seen it yet :( it's on my to-see list

[Auricauricle]

The soundtrack is very enjoyable, scored by Vangelis....

[Groundbeef]

In the spirit of the bright and informed discussion of 2001, I thought that I would begin a new thread devoted to one of our all-time favorites, Blade Runner. This movie is one of science-fiction film's best, and is composed of elements that more than stand on their own: Soundtrack, cinematography, story....Some decry the acting in the movie, leveling many of their criticisms towards Harrison Ford, whose characterisation has been described as "wooden", etc. In either case, this movie packs a huge punch to many who watch it, and, as I said is one of my favorites....

Okay, guys, dig in....Should Blade Runner be called a classic? Why or why not? Who's got the beer and chicken....This is gonna take some talkin'!

Which one are you talking about?

The theatrical release, directors cut, extra special directors cut, 20th anniversary edition,
the one with the happy ending, sad ending?

[audio amateur]

Which one are you talking about?

The theatrical release, directors cut, extra special directors cut, 20th anniversary edition,
the one with the happy ending, sad ending?
LOL, if that's the case I'll need a hint as to which one to watch first.

[Auricauricle]

Well, actually, I was hoping that we'd kick things off "globally"--that is, in relation to the movie in general. Later, as we get into the nuts and bolts of the matter, we can discuss the various merits and foibles of the re-releases, directors' cuts, etc.

Here, let me start: Blade Runner is a science-fiction movie with a fim-noir twist...While Ridley Scott was clearly intending to transport his viewers to the seedy future-world of post-modern Los Angeles, the story and script could very well have been penned by Raymond Chandler.

[audio amateur]

As soon as I see it you'll have plenty of input :D

[Kam]

i guess everyone has a fav version, but personally i loved the one that had Deckard's Voice over, which i think is the original theatrical version. the director's cut took the voice over out of the movie, which i didn't like. and the different endings which change certain meanings.

but the overall theme of what it means to be human, creating life, and the overal christian-related allegories in the movie (fallen angels, christ-symbolism, etc) i think are what makes the movie endure over time.

[Auricauricle]

I agree with you about the voiceover: I like it, as it reminds me of the works of Chandler and Dashiel Hammett...

Now that's a point of view I never considered, Kam! Go with that a bit further: the Christian-related allegories....As an example, you refer to "fallen angels": are you saying that Roy (R. Hauer) was, as disgraced offspring, such a figure and therefore had a price to pay for his insolence? Hmmm...

[JSE]

Man, if there was ever a thread to get TLADINY/LEX/PERV to make an appearance, this would be the one!

JSE sits with fingers crossed. :p

[Troy]

Those themes were also part of Phil Dick's book "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" that the movie was based on. The story's about the meaning of life. Or rather, what constitutes life in a world where man can create sentient beings, and when those beings become superior to the humans that created them. The book comes highly recommended for anyone wanting to get even more out of this complex and cryptic movie. The story is as complex and deep as you want to make it: it can be a simple man hunt shoot-'em-up, or an allegory for some very deep concepts, and that's the key to it's popularity and longevity.

Yes, BR is an unmitigated genre classic. Frankly, I don't recall any movie / sci-fi fan that doesn't think so.

I prefer the Dash Hammet aspect of the voice-over-ed version too, but find the story is more coherent in the longer director's cut.

Syd Mead's art direction was brilliant, I wish he had worked on more movies.

[Auricauricle]

I think that the book is a nice read for fans of the movie, but think that each stands on its own story-wise. Your and Kam's comments are intriguing in consideration of P.K. Dick's life, which--as I understand it--was wrecked by drugs and unslakable soul-searching. Stories like The Divine Invasion, The Transmigration of Timothy Archer, e.g., were peppered with religious references.

I arrived at a slightly different interpretation of BR. Like a previously discussed film/book, BR is (IMO) about what happens to man (or andy*) when he leaves his fate in the control of an unseen force? In the previous work, the force is extraterretrial, in BR the force is terrestrial but still aloof and afar (Tyrell)....

*andy: Dick's nickname for the replicants (humanoid robots); a shortened version of android.

[OzzieAudiophile]

You might as well get the 5 blu-ray disc edition which has all 5 versions of the film,
including 80 minutes of deleted footage.

I've been meaning to get this edition, but it is normally sold out.

[Worf101]

Which one are you talking about?

The theatrical release, directors cut, extra special directors cut, 20th anniversary edition,
the one with the happy ending, sad ending?
ROTFLMBBAO

Man, I'm cleaning the keyboard as we speak. Absolutely spot on!!

Da Worfster

[Worf101]

I've alway considered this a good movie but not a 'great" movie as far as I'm concerned. To me the test is if I HAVE to watch it, like "The Godfather" or "Apocaplypse Now". When those movies happen, I've no choice but to watch, no choice. BR I can take or leave. It DOES have some iconic film moments. Hauer's solliloquy is marvelous as are the images of the "undercity" and it's denizens. I sometimes find myself responding "have a better one". But be that as it may, I never felt for Ford's character or the girl. I was never engaged in a visceral or gut level and I'm a SciFi fanatic. Sorry, just the way it is.

Da Worfster

[Kam]

i saw the christian allegories in a few ways:

the replicants were fallen angels as they were all created off-world and 'fell to earth'. with batty being the both savior and devil in one, as the chief of the fallen angels.

at the end, blatty puts the stigmata on his hand, piercing through his own flesh, with some heavy christ-symbolism there.

and just as in the ideas that "god created man and man destroys god", so is the same idea of "man creates replicants and replicants destroy man". (what Troy said too)

[Groundbeef]

That's the problem with BR.

I really enjoyed the theatrical cut. I didn't go quite as deep as others in picking apart the movie to see what the true meaning of the film was.

That being said. I'm not sure that BR can ever be a "classic". I would be willing to consider the "directors cut" for being nominated as the benchmark.

However, that may not hold up, because that isn't the movie that most film viewers saw (aka the theatrical release).

So with so many variations of the movie, not to mention different endings, I don't think that BR can be a "classic" in the sense that say "Gone With the Wind" or "Sound of Music" will be.

Plus, I liked the B&W version filmed in 1927 with Charlie Chaplin. There were no voice overs, just some guy in the front with cue cards so everyone knew what the hell was going on. The rag-time piano was spot on.

[Auricauricle]

I'll concede that Apocalypse Now and Godfather are more developed character-wise is a near-given. While visually BR is a stunner, its characterization is inferior, maybe even comic-book-like. Seems that Scott shoulda taken a page from his Alien script and enrolled O'Bannon for the job, eh?

[3-LockBox]

I agree with Worf. While I appreciate its ability to trasnsport the veiwer into the future with a high degree of realism, I'm not terribly compelled by the story and characters the way I was for a similar movie, E.I. That's a movie I have to see over and over.

As far as its artistic merit though, I'd say Blade Runner is a highly influencial film, and its influence is all over modern sci/fi, from the afore mentioned E.I. to Battlestar Gallactica. Blade Runner may not have invented the future-noir genre, but it does define it.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Okay now was this the movie with Wesley Snipes in it? He's a good actor... err...well... when will he be released from prison? :idea:

[Auricauricle]

Ummm....No.

[Groundbeef]

Okay now was this the movie with Wesley Snipes in it? He's a good actor... err...well... when will he be released from prison? :idea:

You are thinking of BLADE Rich.

[Auricauricle]

(Psst. Don't encourage him, Beefy....He's just kickin' up the dirt to see if we'll play with him!)

[Groundbeef]

(Psst. Don't encourage him, Beefy....He's just kickin' up the dirt to see if we'll play with him!)


On never knows around here. One man's stupid question is anothers...well dumber question.

[Auricauricle]

Then again, where would we be if Newton or Einstein hadn't asked certain "stupid" questions, hm?

[Groundbeef]

Then again, where would we be if Newton or Einstein hadn't asked certain "stupid" questions, hm?

Well, if they had only asked "smart" questions instead of wasting time on the "dumb" ones we would have much better off.

[Auricauricle]

I'm not goin' there....

[nightflier]

Auric, I hate to ape the other posters, but Blade Runner isn't exactly at the top of my list either. Put it this way, on my Sci-Fi shelf, it sits right between Chronicles of Riddick and The 5th Element and guess which ones are all scuffed up? And part of that is also from people being over and asking to see those instead. While I still consider it a classic, Blade Runner doesn't really have the same rewatchability-factor at my house. But now that you started this thread, maybe I'll force myself to sit through it again, just so that I can keep up with the conversation.

Ahem, someone also mentioned Apocalypse Now. Ironically, it has quite a bit of dust on it than it should have, at least more than the flanking Behind Enemy Lines and We Were Soldiers, but that's a whole different shelf.

[Auricauricle]

Kinda hard to compete with The Fifth Element... That was a splendid movie that had some really fine musical moments...like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3zAs-38QWw

[RGA]

I don't think it matters if the odd person doesn't like Blade Runner - or likes it but doesn't love it. The word classic largely revolves around subjective notions - does it stand the test of time and does the story remain relevant. Blade Runner scores on both counts. People will always quibble over execution.

Citizen Kane is a classic - it is revered as the greatest American Film - I've seen it 3 times and to me it's just not that great. It's good - the die-hards go to great lengths explaining its virtues but to me it just doesn't move me. Maybe you have to be American - maybe if I didn't see Roesebud coming 10 miles away?

Blade Runner I enjoy watching. Interestingly I don't consider the Godfather to be a great set of movies either - they're good - Mob Soap Opera melodrama. Goodfellas had a raw more realistic appeal to me if less ambitious.

[3-LockBox]

Citizen Kane is a classic - it is revered as the greatest American Film - I've seen it 3 times and to me it's just not that great. It's good - the die-hards go to great lengths explaining its virtues but to me it just doesn't move me.

I like this movie, but most of its appeal is its place in history to afficienados and students of filmaking. Its also highly influencial.


Interestingly I don't consider the Godfather to be a great set of movies either - they're good - Mob Soap Opera melodrama. Goodfellas had a raw more realistic appeal to me if less ambitious.

I agree. Goodfellas says more in less time, and achieves something, in places, that The Godfather did not - its funny, albeit in a sardonic way.

[Auricauricle]

I think that the discussion of what is considered "classic" was pretty well played out in the 2001 forum, so I won't belabor the point here. Blade Runner was and is a very appealing movie to me for its first rate aesthetic qualities. I also liked the dystopian depiction of the future, which was a far cry from the teflon-clad Star Trek model...Most appealing was Blade Runner's departure from the gimmick-based story. Instead, the emphasis on the oragnic and human elements of the story grounded Blade Runner and made it much more plausible and "real"....

[Smokey]

Interestingly I don't consider the Godfather to be a great set of movies either - they're good - Mob Soap Opera melodrama. Goodfellas had a raw more realistic appeal to me if less ambitious.

"Mob Soap Opera melodrama"....you must be kidding :hand:

Not withstanding GF3, GF1&2 are probably two of the finest movie ever created regardless of genre. Goodfellas is an awesome movie in its own right, but it does not have the scope, range of actors and actress, atmosphere and influence of Godfather had/have.

[Groundbeef]

"Mob Soap Opera melodrama"....you must be kidding :hand:

Not withstanding GF3, GF1&2 are probably two of the finest movie ever created regardless of genre. Goodfellas is an awesome movie in its own right, but it does not have the scope, range of actors and actress, atmosphere and influence of Godfather had/have.

Yeah, but it does have Joe Peshi (sp?) making the bus boy dance. He was funny like a clown.

[Smokey]

Yeah, but it does have Joe Peshi (sp?) making the bus boy dance. He was funny like a clown.

Joe Pesci did stole the whole movie. I like the part where he is in his mother house eating dinner, and mother show him her painting of two dogs and a guy on a boat. Joe said about the painting...."Oh I like this one... One dog goes one way, the other dog goes the other way, and this guy's sayin', "Whadda ya want from me?"

[OzzieAudiophile]

Hello all.

Reading Auricauricle's topic regarding BR, compelled me to finally get out my wallet and
get the 5-disc collectors edition on Blu Ray. It must of been at least 17 years since I
originally saw it. I had in on DVD for a while, but it was obviously not the final cut.

I had the soundtrack for a while, and thoroughly enjoy listening to it. Not that I was a
die-hard Vangelis fan, but I found he seemed to have a more unique style to his music.
Wait for Me, Rachel's song, and the Love Theme are my favourites on the soundtrack,
hearing those on my PS3 on my Dynaudio's at night, incredible. I am pleased that
they chose Vangelis for this soundtrack. He scores on this one.

Onto the movie, I just saw the Final cut, and the Workprint on Blu Ray, the transfer was
incredible. The picture and sound are spectacular. Watch it on Blu Ray at night, the
scenery and sound really grab you, which is the intention of the film as opposed to
keeping as faithful to Philip K. Dick's novel as possible.

Well after watching Enchancement archives (featurettes on disc 4), I received more
insight of the points that were trying to be made from the film. Some of the info threw
more spanners into the works, and I won't spoil anymore, I'd recommend watching
the extras if you can get your hands on them.

I'd say the film was ahead of it's time for 1982, as there were too many people who
just didn't get it. The subtle hints in the film were just too subtle to pickup. You have
to understand and expect that any particular film is not everyone's cup of tea. Many
people simply just do not like any Sci Fi, or anything that's not "Hollywood" enough.

If you don't wish to break down a film for it's ideas, concepts, then why are you watching
a film at all ? Just to kill time ? would really be a waste of 2 hours of your life then
wouldn't it ?

IMO if one tries to find as many ways to appreciate a film, and cannot find anything,
only then would know for sure if it's good. Otherwise it's simply not their "type". There
are quite a lot of films out there that get you to think "outside the box", it's not just
sci fi.

Take another Sci Fi movie for example, Star Wars (1977). Made/making an insane
amount of money, is right up there simply because the impact it made which was
good timing for 1977. The merchandise sales went through the roof. The following two
made nowhere near as much impact. The storyline would be considered as better
than the following two of the original trilogy, however the plot, character development,
let's be honest, wasn't that impressive. If you were like me and a kid back then, you
wouldn't care much for plot or character development (at 5 years old those words were
too big to understand haha), things got blown up the bad guy wore black and the good
guys won at the end.

BR is probably more popular proportion wise in terms of really enjoying watching it,
than back in 1982.

Even Sci Fi movies post 2005 IMO lack plot, I was never impressed with the plot,
storyline with any of the Star Gate films, they all lacked substance. Things just got
blown up, and I must of watched way too much sci fi in my time to go, "yep seen this
idea before, yep couldn't see that coming... etc".

You'll always have the die hard fans that refuse to let you say a bad word about their
favourite shows of movies. One thing to think about is we are discussing BR, nearly
27 years after it was originally released. The film is in many people's collections, it's
survived time.

Should I be fair and say what I believe is not good about the film ? They should of
added many of the deleted scenes in the final cut as it's still partially a "broken" film,
you have to see the deleted scenes seperately. The drive away should of been added
in the end. It didn't have to, the final cut is merely his prefered cut.

Fortunately we are not all sheep and because someone says it's a classic, we
automatically have it in our collections. For someone who was born in the 1970's a
greater proportion of films impressed me that were made pre 1990 than after.

Perhaps Hollywood demands a too high proportion of action, or special effects than
substance, plot, characterisation (then again there's only 90 or 120 minutes to burn
into a viewers senses). There were surveys taken and the main reason sitcoms were
between 22 to 25 minutes long is because that is the generic lifespan of a human
being's attention span before they start to feel a form of boredom. I wouldn't say we
are incapable of concentrating watching a film more than 22 mins, however films normally
comprise of peaks and dips of action, suspense, silence to smooth things out.

After waching Quantum Solace, it reminds me of a Johnny Woo Mission Impossible 2,
pure 100% continuous action, always on the go. No plot, no substance, no real
opportunity for any actor to win anything based on their acting. It's a flavour, not mine,
I like action, but if you keep it intense throughout, you desensitize the viewer. They
are already tense, there's no moment you can really hit them hard.

For the doubters, I'll leave this response on this note :

BR : Winner of Hugo Award 1983
Golden Globe 1983 Best Score - Vangelis

American Film Institute rated BR as the 6th best Sci Fi film of all time, and the very
same institute lists each number one film of each category, were all 1980 or earlier films.