my system update (focus on speakers)

[nusiclover]

ok, this is what i did. i went to my dealer a few weeks ago, was going to go with either the BW 705 or the DYN 52se. OF COURSE, the Dyns won. Then i desided to agree to get the Marantz 6400 ($560) so that i could have HT in the future. (of course, i didnt know that the marantz wasnt good for 4 ohm speakers). Then, i returned to check out options and I see the Contour t2.1 for sale at $900. i buy it thinking i am on my way to great HT. They also had the T2.5 for $2,300. this REALLY got me thinking. So i take my new killer center channel home set it up and watch a movie. KILLER CENTER. BUT, suddenly i realize that HT is NOT my Priority, that MUSIC is number one for me. So, i find myself STUCK with an a/v receiver that in NO way does the dynaudios justice. SO, now im in the boat of considering taking BACk my killer T2.1 and taking BACk the marantz 6400 and going with either separates OR an integrated that costs equally with the 2.1 and 6400, that is $1,500. ALL THIS just to get BETTER 2 channel.

IS this NUTZ? What Are your Opinions. What would You Do?

ty.

[F1]

I would get a decent subwoofer and check the room accoustics first before accusing the receiver is the culprit. Sorry if this is not the answer you want.

[T-Bone]

Hey Nusiclover... T-Bone here.

I need some clarification: You are proposing to take back your receiver and center channel and use the money for some stereo source equipment? You seem happy with your speakers, so you want to get something to match?

Depending on what kind of music you listen to (I am an accoustic/classical guy), consider creek products. They make integrated amps & CD players that provide great soundstaging and IMO don't color the sound all that much.

Here is a website that I found helpful...

www.hifichoice.co.uk

Good luck

[bturk667]

Go with what moves you. If it is two channel, good choice, then do it. At that price(of the Marantz) look into a NAD integrated.

[topspeed]

Bturk nailed it, you need to figure out what moves you. Don't buy anything else until you do. Here's the way I read your post: You've met Ms. Upgrade and been seduced by her magical wiles. Get your head on straight and dump her as fast as possible and your banker will be the happier for it. The more you look, the more enticing "great deals" you'll find. It starts with telling yourself that $500 isn't that much more than you had budgeted for and next thing you know you're mortgaging the house for a pair of Von Schweikert VR11's.

OK, maybe not that extreme but you get the idea.

Slow down nusic. If you don't know where you're going, how in the world are you going to get there?

[nusiclover]

ok, i admit that i did get a little overly excited with my whole music/ht thing. basically, i went in over my hed and spent way too mnuch money. at least more than i expected. the truth is i would be happy just spending $1000 total to have good music. But, see as it were, i did listen in on stuff and realized that i would always be missing better had i gone with (what i originally intended) BW 602s3. Yeah, call it what you will, but now i am at $3200 total. And i have decided to go along with it as long as i get that killer sound. However, i am in a rush since its hard to drive all the way to my dealer every weekend. Anyway, i have decided to keep the 52se for $1400. now i need to decide exactly how much to spend on separates or an integrated, because the way i see it, going with HT just sacrifices music quality. At least, this is what i think ive learned on this site. Any advice of what you would do would be cool tho. thanx

[stuartlittle]

Are you 100% positive that you have all the digital processing and HT effects turned off in stereo mode?

[topspeed]

i have decided to go along with it as long as i get that killer sound.
Just make sure your definition of "killer sound" is YOURS, not someone else's (especially some magazine review or an AR review).


However, i am in a rush since its hard to drive all the way to my dealer every weekend.
Don't go every weekend. Catch a ballgame. Go on vacation. Are you planning on going deaf soon? No? Then take the time to do it right the first time. Rushing only allows for an increased likelyhood for mistakes. Trust me, I've made those costly mistakes.


now i need to decide exactly how much to spend on separates or an integrated, because the way i see it, going with HT just sacrifices music quality.
You're exactly right.

Good luck and buy what moves you.

[Woochifer]

First off, have you actually verified that your Marantz cannot drive those Danes? The instances where the Marantz is clearly underpowered are if it audibly distorts or otherwise has problems with the audio quality as you raise the volume to moderate levels, or if it shuts down frequently at moderate levels.

If you really think the amplifier section is insufficient, then you should borrow a two channel amp from your dealer, connect it to your receiver preouts and speakers, and see if you can detect an audible improvement in quality (use a SPL meter to make sure that the output levels are equal because it's easy to mistake louder for better; and also try to control some of the biases of sighted listenings by having a friend randomly switch between the receiver and the amp). If so, then adding a two-channel amp might be the best compromise because you might get better sound quality for two-channel music, but you don't lose the multichannel functionality in the process.

However, the differences with amp, preamp, and digital front end components are typically very narrow compared to the differences that exist between speakers and rooms. Speaker comparisons are easy to do, but all too often, the most ignored variable is the room acoustics. If you were comparing speakers or receivers in two different rooms, then you've basically failed to account for the variation in acoustics, which make a far bigger difference than anything I've ever heard between different amps and receivers. That's why I strongly suggest that you borrow a two-channel amp to check on whether the perceived deficiency that you detect has more to do with room acoustics. With bad room acoustics, ANY speaker or receiver or amp or exotic cable will basically suck. But, the good news is that correcting for room related issues can be simple and not all that expensive.

Sounds to me like you're blaming the hardware before you even checked all the other variables.

Also, sounds to me like you should take a breather and figure out how to properly set up your system first. Speaker positioning, properly setting the surround and center levels to match the mains, correctly setting the delay timing to compensate for differences in distance to the listening position, etc. are absolutely vital to get right in a multichannel setup.

I mean, what deficiencies are you noting with your system? The most important thing to get right with a 5.1 surround system is to timbre match the speakers. You've cobbled together a set of speakers from different series, so who knows if the t2.1 is the correct center speaker match for the 52se. It doesn't matter how "killer" it is, if the center speaker has dramatically different voice characteristics from the mains, then it won't work properly EVEN IF it subjectively sounds better than the mains. Any voice mismatches in the front three speakers will disrupt the continuity of the front soundstage and detract from the seamless imaging that you ideally would want.

The upfront decision that you need to get straight is how important multichannel capability is to you. For me, I decided to upgrade my system because I specifically wanted to make the jump to 5.1. Two-channel options had zero relevance in my decision making. If you really don't care for multichannel, then you should return the center speaker and stick with your current system for the time-being, perhaps adding a two-channel amp and using your Marantz as the preamp. It gives you the option of adding three more speakers for a 5.1 setup later on, and if you get a subwoofer, home theater receivers have more flexible options for bass management.

[nusiclover]

so from what i gather, everyone has their 2 cents. which is exactly why i even bother with these forums in the first place. i like that everyone gives me their own opinion. yes, it does make me confused at times, but in the long run, the more i hear from all of you the more i know what i want myself. so, thanks everyone.

from the start i got many many people telling me that the marantz (specifically) was not a good match with my speakers. many said that speaker and electronics should be equal in spending. many people have told me that the marantz is a great av receiver. basically, i know that the marantz is good. theres no question there. but ive also known that my speakers can sound better. that better electronics do exist (of course for more money). i also have had the bad experienbce of having my marantz go into "protect" and shut itself down. and i really didnt have it that loud.

from what i gather, more people would agree that a 100watt/channel av receiver that costs around $700 is really not going to be a good match with 4 ohm dynaudio speakers.

i appreciate everyones opinions. it helps me learn more. which is why we all come here to begin with.

[manek]

give back the marantz...go for a receiver/2 channel amp which is rated and stable at 4 ohms like the NAD, ARCAM, ROKSAN etc. and do it quick.

Dyn's are very difficult to drive so please please get an amp that drives them well. heaven help you if the amp suddenly gives up decides to dump DC into your speakers.

[46minaudio]

Nusic first I dont know if the Marantz will drive your speakers or not..I would at least give it a try.Woochifer has given great advice in that your room and set up will have the most effect on how a system will sound..Myself I love HT and Music DVDs,and when the price for a DVDa/SACD changers come down I will enjoy that also..IMO I would not give that up..Also IMO 2ch stereo on a 5.1 system is just as good as going with a straight 2ch system..With that said back to your system.If you find the Marantz will not drive the Dyns to your needs you can either get an ext AMP..
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/aboutgizmos/amc2100.html
This one should do just fine.No its not an audiophile certified brand,...or another receiver that will drive these..
http://ww2.onecall.com/PID_18440.htm
This unit will produce its rated power with a chanels driven and will have no problem with the Dyns..Then sit back and enjoy your system..