JBL E100 vs Yamaha NS777

[Roger555]

OK I need some quick opinions from everyone here about this situation i'm in!!!!! Currently I have a 5.1 setup with all JBL speakers as you can see below the model numbers in my Signature. I have the opportunity to purchase a used but perfect pair of Yamaha NS77 floor speakers for $250. Now I already have the JBL E100 's of course but im just so drawn to the styling and the piano black finish (matches my tv) of the Yammies. Now there is not a whole lot of information about either the JBL E100's that I own or the Yammies but they seem to have comparable reviews. SOOO the question is would it be a good deal to purchase these and swap out(sell) by JBL E100's for these sexy yammies or am I better off with the E100's and the matched (all JBL) system I currently have?? Now keep in mind if I get these yammies I may eventually piece by piece swap out all the JBLs for the comparable Yamaha. Opinions please!!! I have to buy the Yammies tomorrow if I want them

[Kevio]

I personally don't think matchy-matchy needs to be your top priority in building a home theater.

If you think $250 is a good price and you like the way the new speakers sound on their own, I'd do the purchase and then start working on merging the families.

Worst case, you do some fun experiments and then resell the Yamahas.

[RoadRunner6]

Sorry ,but I have to disagree with the previous poster. Having precisely matched speakers all around is one of the most important factors for having a smooth voice/timbre matched surround sound (this is from home theater 101, an absolute must) . It is extremely important and very audible. Make sure the 5 JBL's are within 0.5 decibels of each other in the speaker setup procedure for your receiver for best results. You need a Radio Shack analog sound volume meter for this. Your ears are not nearly as exact as this meter.

Have you ever seen anyone who has a pair of stereo speakers that don't match? Well, it is the same priciple in a 5 or 7 speaker surround system.

Forget buying the Yamaha speakers. Bad idea! If you feel you are not happy with your system then upgrade the whole set at the same time.

RR6

[Roger555]

Well suppose I do plan on switching over all my speakers within a few months to yammies if I buy the new fronts. The real question is will the yammies make a better home theater speaker then the JBL??? Besides the looks of course.

[Kevio]

Have you ever seen anyone who has a pair of stereo speakers that don't match? Well, it is the same priciple in a 5 or 7 speaker surround system.It is not the same thing. We'll just have to disagree. The sound of a speaker is influenced by its placement. It is unlikely that you have similar placement for your center channel and surrounds as for your mains. You may consider the 5 speakers of your surround system to be a continuous environment. Many film soundtracks take a more discrete approach - dialog in center, music in mains and effects in the surrounds.

[RoadRunner6]

It is not the same thing. We'll just have to disagree. The sound of a speaker is influenced by its placement. It is unlikely that you have similar placement for your center channel and surrounds as for your mains. You may consider the 5 speakers of your surround system to be a continuous environment. Many film soundtracks take a more discrete approach - dialog in center, music in mains and effects in the surrounds.

Yes, the sound of a speaker is influenced by its placement. It also is influenced by its drivers, its enclosure, its crossover, and many other factors. Why start with mis-matched speakers?

Most film soundtracks have the dialog located at the position in the film of the person speaking which can be from any speaker and not just the center speaker. Most films have music that is spread across the front sound stage with direct music or reflected sound also from the surround speakers. Most films have effects (not just LFE effects) that are also in the front three speakers as well as the surrounds and the subwoofer. (have you seen any DD or DTS movies?) Reproducing music or sounds effects requires the same full range performance from all speakers (with the assistance of the sub).

Matched speakers with the same exact tweeters and preferably the same exact midranges are best. Even better, when practical, is three identical speakers across the front. The very best, although rarely practical is 5 or 7 identical speakers plus one or more subs. Mis-matched speakers whether in a stereo pair or a surround system is starting off on the wrong foot.

The opinion that speakers don't need to be matched is a second hand misconception that existed when Dolby Surround first hit the audio scene. There were in fact no matching speakers for existing mains, either center or surround at first. That misinformation still seems to have a life of its own today along with the misconception that the same speakers can't be excellent for both music and movies. Consult any reputable speaker company or audio/hometheater reviewer and they will confirm the important advantage of matching speakers.

This is a basic requirement to superior music and home theater reproduction. It's really a no-brainer and very easy to demonstrate.

Roger, other than the appearance of the Yamaha's, is there some reason you are not happy with the JBL's? From what I can find you are looking at two speakers that are pretty much in the same class of build and performance. The JBL's appear to be more sensitive (efficient) and thus will play somewhat louder with the same power input. Otherwise I think you would find them very comparable in sound quality. I can see no reason for a change other than the looks . Why not wait until you can afford a significant upgrade in performance level for all five.

RR6

[Roger555]

you seem to be on point with everything, and yes as for the Yamaha's I really like the glossy black, they look so much better then my very blockly looking JBL's. The lady on craigslist who seems to have noo idea about speakers accepted my offer 225 for the set. I haven't looked at them yet but they are supposedly in perfect condition. For that price I cant see a reason not to buy them and replace my center channel at the least with the matched Yamaha for around 100 dollars. After I can sell my current setup, I might even make money off the switch or at least break even. Also if I buy them and end up not liking them then I can almost certainly resell them for a lot more then 225. I guess I'm more concerned with downgrading as I have never heard the Yamaha's but they both seem to have good reviews and you cant even buy my JBL's anymore. I heard the Yamahas have a lack of bass but very nice mids and highs, and my JBLs lack in the highs supposedly. I have a sub though so the bass is not a concern. Oh also one thing to consider the Yamaha's are 6ohm compared to my 8ohm JBL's I read this should be fine do you agree?? I am using a pre amp to run the fronts already 80 W x 2 (8ohm).

[blackraven]

You should be fine with 6 ohm speakers. I'm just concerned with your buying speakers that you have never listened too with out being able to return them. I think you would have been better served by saving your money and buying better speakers. The Yammy's may be a lateral move at best. I would have considered the Energy C-100's a better deal from audio advisor.

Good luck with the Yammy's, I hope they work out for you.

[Roger555]

are you referring to these below??? You think these would provide a better quality front speaker then JBL or Yamaha?? They just seem like a bookself speaker though, I cant imagine them replacing a big speaker like I currently have. Although the extra space would be nice!


http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speakers/bookshelf-speakers/energy-loudspeakers/c100/PRD_411427_4290crx.aspx

[blackraven]

Sorry Roger, I meant the Energy C-300's

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENC300

But even the C-100's would probably sound better than the Yammy's if paired with your sub.

You should consider these KEF's. They are a steal for the price

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542350278/kef-iq5-walnut?v_c=netelixir&ne_ppc_id=705&ne_key_id=1782873

[Kevio]

Why start with mis-matched speakers?Because you typically cannot physically fit the same speaker in the mains position, the center position and the surround positions. You can buy "matched sets" from speaker manufacturers but despite the sales pitch, that often means they're primarily matched in terms of styling, secondarily in terms of voicing.


Most film soundtracks have the dialog located at the position in the film of the person speaking which can be from any speaker and not just the center speaker.Easy claim to make. Easy claim to test. Just disconnect the center speaker and see how much dialog you get. I'm happy to do the experiment. I hope you'll join me.

[RoadRunner6]

Because you typically cannot physically fit the same speaker in the mains position, the center position and the surround positions. You can buy "matched sets" from speaker manufacturers but despite the sales pitch, that often means they're primarily matched in terms of styling, secondarily in terms of voicing.

Easy claim to make. Easy claim to test. Just disconnect the center speaker and see how much dialog you get. I'm happy to do the experiment. I hope you'll join me.

Kevio, what are you smoking?:D Matched means they have the exact same drivers. This is always the tweeter and many times the same midrange and the same bass driver. "Matched" means matched voicing/timbre. This means they sound exactly the same or almost the same. Have you ever run the test tones in the speaker setup procedures? As you go from speaker to speaker the noise should be exactly the same or very close with matched speakers. If you have a center and surrounds from a different series or brand usually there will be a very noticable difference in the character of the sound.....this is not good. Of course, they make the matched speakers with the same appearance in the enclosures, duh!

You must only listen to documentaries. I have lots of movies as well as music videos where the voices are recorded in other than the center speaker. Many times the voices are reproduced in the left, right or surrounds as reflected sound. Put on a movie such as Amedeus and tell me you can't hear vocals coming from the other 4 speakers. Play the Eagles Hell Freezes DTS DVD and tell me you can't hear the singer on the left coming thru the left speaker, Duh!

Roger, with the advent of high quality powered subs the big full range tower speaker is no longer a given for full range big, loud sound. THX certified systems cross over from the mains to the sub at 80 Hz. Most quality bookshelf speakers play at least down to 80Hz at -3 decibels. There is some disagreement here about the effects of soundstage with a tower versus bookshelf speaker. I personaly think the smaller boxed bookshelf speaker has many advantages in sound over the tower. So bigger is not necessarily better with a good sub. BR gives some good choices above.

One definite advantage of the tower speaker is that they are usually more efficient than the bookshelf speakers (means they play louder with the same amount of power). Don't worry about 6 ohms versus 8 ohms. These are generalizations and not significant unless you know the actual measured lowest impedence of the individual speaker.

RR6

[Kevio]

So you think matching drivers is all it takes to achieve matched voicing? What about enclosure size, venting and driver placement?

I thought we were talking about movies but the examples you've given are music-oriented. For 5.1 music, I have no problem agreeing that matching is important if not critical.

Now go watch a real movie with the center speaker disconnected and tell me how much dialog you hear. If it would help motivate you, I'll gladly send you some of what I'm smoking.