Bob James

[blackraven]

I just got back from a Dinner Jazz club here in Minneapolis called the Dakota Grill. Bob James and Keiko Matsui played Duets on one piano. It was a great night of music and dinner. They player for about 1.5 hours and after the show I got to talk to BJ's for a few minutes. He's a very nice man.

I used to listen to a lot of his smooth jazz albums over the years.

If you have chance to see them play do it!

[hifitommy]

compared to BJ1 and the other early recordings. he make lots of money from being in SMOOTH jazz. of course i know he's a good musician and once in a while, fourplay will do straight ahead jazz, but not often enough.

i have tried to like keiko but her playing on disc is vaporous. again, probably good but not on disc. live would be good i suppose.

david sanborn has fallen down the same hole. even HE admits they tell him to 'play like david sanborn' at sessions. its that sameness that sullies the music.

a great sanborn cd is 'another hand' which does not sound anything like his other music, it is REAL jazz and usually sells for cheap because people arent expecting this sound on disc from him. his midnight show on tv was wonderful and is missed by me.

his best work was done on early michael franks records while he was forming his style. check them out.

[Mr Peabody]

I've got Bob's Grand Piano Canyon which I like a lot. I also have an LP I like but I can't remember the title. I'm envious, I bet a small show like that is special.

I will have to check that Sanborn album out. I honestly have not heard one of his I have liked so far. He plays on a Michael Stanley song called Let's Get The Show On the Road and does probably one of the best sax solos I've heard.

I was just commenting earlier today how funny it was that some one can put a title on music like "Smooth Jazz" and it will sell where a few years back it was just dismissed as elevator music. Too many good artists sell out wanting on this band wagon. I guess on the other hand a person has to eat.

Ever hear of The Bad Plus? I think I have that right. They have an interesting sound, I might try an album some day. They take songs from modern Rock like Nirvana, Rush, Thompson Twins etc and play them in this sort of acoustic Jazz music. I've only heard samples and I can't make up I mind if I like or it's just weird.

[Auricauricle]

I like BJ! Although I no loger have Touchdown, All Around the Town is still fun to listen to, now and then....Say what you wll, the guy has a feel for the keys that I never tire of...

[hifitommy]

from back when he was playing jazz that was smooth. but in the 80s, it proliferated because the producers wanted more of the same because it sells. i dont disrespect an artist who doesnt want to die poor such as kenny g (actually a good sax player).

i DO want more than background music though. erik truffaz, medeski-martin-and-wood, the bad plus. all good new, fresh players. throw in some trilok gurtu as well.

its not that i dont like traditional straight ahead jazz, i have lots and i listen to kkjz.org and wbgo.org while i'm on the computer but it has to be interesting.

check out some of the ones i mentioned in my second paragraph.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm with you Tommy.

Any of you have Gene Harris? Now there's a guy that can play the piano.

[hifitommy]

he was in the three sounds so snag any of those you see. he strikes the keys and just about makes the strings ring.

heres one to get:

http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Town-Hall-N-Y-C/dp/B0000006I5

and just about ANY other as well. VERY different from BJ though.

[blackraven]

At the dinner BJ and KM played piano without any other instruments. They played music that ranged from classical to modern jazz. There was no smooth jazz that night.

[Woochifer]

compared to BJ1 and the other early recordings. he make lots of money from being in SMOOTH jazz. of course i know he's a good musician and once in a while, fourplay will do straight ahead jazz, but not often enough.

i have tried to like keiko but her playing on disc is vaporous. again, probably good but not on disc. live would be good i suppose.

david sanborn has fallen down the same hole. even HE admits they tell him to 'play like david sanborn' at sessions. its that sameness that sullies the music.

a great sanborn cd is 'another hand' which does not sound anything like his other music, it is REAL jazz and usually sells for cheap because people arent expecting this sound on disc from him. his midnight show on tv was wonderful and is missed by me.

his best work was done on early michael franks records while he was forming his style. check them out.

Well, I try not to use labels like "real" versus fake jazz. The transition to where guys like James, Matsui, and Sanborn have gone has to do with radio exposure. When the smooth jazz format was hatched in the late-80s, that pretty much dictated what a lot of jazz musicians had to play from that point onward, since commercial jazz stations were dropping right and left by that point.

By that time, a lot of musicians were playing the "smooth" stuff in addition to a lot of other material that incorporated more adventurous improvisation. But, once that format got developed, it cherry picked the "smooth" selections and ignored the other tracks. Once that happened, the song selections on CDs got much less diverse and more narrowly focused on what got played on smooth jazz formats.

I knew a lot of the musicians and A&R people in the LA jazz scene during that period, and it was tough on them to see the dictates of what they were allowed to record change so quickly. Guys who were more in the fusion vein had to retool their sound because the record companies were trying to duplicate the sales success of Kenny G (ironically, even Kenny G had to pare down his range of music -- just compare the much more funk-influenced material he was recording prior to "Songbird" to the more derivative stuff he was doing afterwards).

Live performances are really the only area where those talented musicians could let loose, and back then the only way they could get a gig in some of the higher profile clubs was if they had an audience built up through radio play. I remember bassist Brian Bromberg (probably the best jazz bassists I've ever seen based just on raw talent) recording some of the worst paint-by-numbers crap because that was all that would get airplay. Yet, in a live setting, he would play only a few token selections from his CDs, and opt instead for these wild improvisations that showcased his insane skills on bass.

It boils down to the old tradeoff for any musician trying to make a living with their music. Tailor the sound for airplay, or risk losing record company support. A lot of the musicians I knew who had record deals decided to play ball, and record the radio-friendly stuff while leaving what they actually want to play to their concert dates.

[Auricauricle]

I think that you guys are nailing down a valid and important point, viz the balance between making a living and maintaining a modicum of artistic integrity. In the BJ example above, we discuss an artist of true and irreproachable talent, who has been decried for producing music that was mainstream palatable. While purists may scoff, calling his music "elevator" music and Muzak, those who are looking for an easy, cheerful and pleasant sound will not be so harsh. I know little about James' nusic altogether, but what I have heard is not unpleasant. Would I put his music in the same league as Bill Evans or Theolonius Monk? Absolutely not. It's simply a matter of genre and the whims of the market place (as you rightfully say hifiTommy). In bringing up Kenny G., Woochifer, you go right to a perfect example. I bought Songbird when it came out, for I thought the track was a stunner. However, some of the other music on the album (can I still call 'em albums?) was rather trite and I soon got rid of it because of those tracks...

[pixelthis]

I just got back from a Dinner Jazz club here in Minneapolis called the Dakota Grill. Bob James and Keiko Matsui played Duets on one piano. It was a great night of music and dinner. They player for about 1.5 hours and after the show I got to talk to BJ's for a few minutes. He's a very nice man.

I used to listen to a lot of his smooth jazz albums over the years.

If you have chance to see them play do it!

The closest I will probably come to that is an evening with foreplay, a great DVD
with the group that James plays with.
I have enjoyed JAMES MUSIC since I first heard the tune pure fascination.
And Grand piano canyon was pretty good too.
I AM SOOOO JEALOUS.:1: