Progrock Britannia Documentary [Archive]

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Troy

01-29-2009, 03:14 PM

Auricauricle

01-29-2009, 03:29 PM

Aw, man!!! This is the stuff I LOVE!!!

3-LockBox

01-29-2009, 04:07 PM

ahh...ya beat me to it. It is a good watch isn't it. It is not for the faint of heart though, so indie-hipster-snob may just wanna move it along. ;)

bobsticks

01-29-2009, 04:30 PM

...are there capes and Kramer guitars with aluminium headstocks?

Luvin Da Blues

01-29-2009, 06:42 PM

Best 30 minutes I spent this week. :thumbsup:

I was just hitting my teens back then so this brings back lots of memories of days gone past.

3-LockBox

01-29-2009, 07:06 PM

Yes there are capes, and pointy hats.

This coulda been a three hour show and I wouldn't have gotten enough. This isn't a trip in the wayback machine for me though, as I was too young to be listening to prog. No one I knew cared for it, or even tried listening to it as far as I know. I didn't really come into prog until I got the internet. So I not only missed the classical phase, but the first and second wave of neo-prog bands that came afterwards.

Just a few thoughts:

it strikes me as odd that glam rock is celebrated amongst the rock press but prog gets slagged - oh, I likes me some glam, but it is just as self-indulgent and pretentious as prog.

even though I have no real sense of history with regards to prog, I have a hard time believing that Thick As A Brick is the ultimate prog album, nor do I believe Ian Anderson when he suggests that it was really just a 'send up' or jab at prog.

Rick Wakeman is a hoot. I could listen to him for hours.

BradH

01-29-2009, 08:49 PM

I'm almost speechless. They nailed it from the start and never took a misstep. Even all the music was from actual records, none of that generic session rock you usually hear in the background during documentaries. Somebody knew this subject backwards and forwards, very unusual in a rock doc and very unusual for the BBC too.

If I had to quibble it would probably be the portrayal of Roxy Music as simply another glam band with no affinity with the prog rockers.

I have a hard time believing that Thick As A Brick is the ultimate prog album, nor do I believe Ian Anderson when he suggests that it was really just a 'send up' or jab at prog.

You'll get plenty of debate about any "ultimate prog album" but Ian Anderson was definitely using humor to a wicked extent on Thick As A Brick. Very, VERY, Pythonesque with that newspaper cover (which we used to read for hours) and the little skits on stage they were doing that tour (which I found out about later). He may be exaggerating the "send up" aspect of it but it's definitely more lighthearted than Passion Play.

Anyway, great stuff. I loved seeing so many early bands get their propers when so many progheads think it comes down to 2 or 3 bands in the 70's.

MasterCylinder

01-30-2009, 09:25 AM

Hi Troy !
Very cool post...............thanks a bunch.

3-LockBox

01-30-2009, 11:49 AM

Very telling was Phil Collins' disposition regarding Genesis' early days with Gabriel...I don't think Phil misses those days.

Troy

01-30-2009, 05:19 PM

Hey, Luvin da Blues, make sure you watch parts 2 and 3!

Yes bobsticks, there's plenty of fashion advice for you.

Yeah I agree, anytime anyone says anything is the "ultimate album" in any genre it makes me question the commenters qualifications to make such a statement. Let alone calling it "Thick as a Brick" which isn't even the best Tull album, let alone best prog album. It's just opinion.

Like Brad, I believe 100% that Anderson did TAAB with tongue stuck firmly in cheek. Think it through: Passion Play was the next logical step for Anderson to take (doing a serious single-track concept album after seeing that listeners were taking the funny one seriously), and as a single-track concept album it's actually better paced and more fully realized than TAAB.

Yes, it was funny to see Collins get squirmy in part 3. They were clearly asking him some uncomfortable questions.

Nice to see ya MC!

Troy

01-30-2009, 05:20 PM

Troy

01-30-2009, 05:21 PM

BradH

01-31-2009, 07:13 AM

Think it through: Passion Play was the next logical step for Anderson to take (doing a serious single-track concept album after seeing that listeners were taking the funny one seriously), and as a single-track concept album it's actually better paced and more fully realized than TAAB.

I wouldn't say it was 100% tongue-in-cheek because he did use that fake Bostock story to make some serious observations about society and class structure. But if you include the newspaper album cover then it was a send up of everything really. The entire cover was done by Anderson and Hammond. Keep in mind, some people actually bought the whole Bostock story. There's even a review of the album itself under the headline "New Tull L.P." I love the way it sums up at the end of the review: "One doubts at times the validity of what appears to be an expanding theme throughout the two continuous sides of this record but the result is at worst entertaining and at least aesthetically palatable. Poor, or perhaps naive taste is responsible for some of the ugly changes of time signature and banal instrumental passages linking the main sections but ability in this direction should come with maturity."

Passion Play is as deep and complex as Quadrophenia or The Lamb but I guess it also had its meta-irony in the form of a play w/ actors, production company, etc. - again mostly existing in the cover and booklet materials.

Yes, it was funny to see Collins get squirmy in part 3. They were clearly asking him some uncomfortable questions.

I don't think it's as delicate a subject as you guys are reading into it. They've been really open about this topic forever. Phil wasn't the only one tired of Gabriel getting all the acclaim, they've all talked about it. It was the entire reason for Collins founding Brand X in '75. If Gabriel didn't leave then Phil was going to. Of course, Collins ended up doing both. Btw, Gabriel didn't leave because he wanted a solo career, he originally quit the music biz altogether to persue acting but later changed his mind. He certainly wasn't forced out.

Edit: I watched this documentary again and I have to say they struck the perfect balance between taking it just seriously enough and not taking it too seriously. It was what it was.

Auricauricle

01-31-2009, 02:33 PM

I thought that Gabriel's wife's pregnancy was very difficult, and that those stressors and others led to Gabriel's departure....

Gabriel founded Brand X? Hm! I always thought it was Morrie's (Pert) idea! The way that Moroccon Roll was so cohesive, it never occurred to me that Brand X was a one-man gig!

BradH

01-31-2009, 03:23 PM

I thought that Gabriel's wife's pregnancy was very difficult, and that those stressors and others led to Gabriel's departure....

Those things led to Gabriel's departure from the biz altogether, that was the point. William Friedkin wanted him in some project or other at the time so Gabriel had it in mind to go into acting when he left Genesis. That's what he meant in his press release when he said something about not wanting to leave so he could "do a Ferry or a Bowie or a Furry Boa". It was only afterward that he changed his mind about leaving the music biz. Eventually, his wife left him anyway after threatening to do so if he toured for So in 1986.

Gabriel founded Brand X? Hm! I always thought it was Morrie's (Pert) idea! The way that Moroccon Roll was so cohesive, it never occurred to me that Brand X was a one-man gig!

Huh? Collins founded Brand X in 1975 specifically for the purpose of leaving Genesis if Gabriel decided to stay after the The Lamb tour was over. The Brand X guys knew each other from various studio work, notably Eno's Another Green World. So that was going to be Phil's escape hatch but I've never personally thought of it as a "one-man gig". And he ended up doing both gigs anyway resulting in A Trick of the Tail being released in January '76, Unorthodox Behaviour that summer, and Wind And Wuthering in December. That's the Indian Summer of their career they were talking about in the film. All good stuff. Brilliant in fact.

Auricauricle

02-02-2009, 04:17 PM

Well, you told me! Seriously, by "one man gig" I reckon I misunderstood your post as implying that Collins galvanized the various talents and was responsible for its vision...Your knowledge of both of these bands is beyond my ken, although I respect all parties mentioned very much. "Moroccan Roll", to me, is simply one of my favorite albums, period. In fact, if I were on a desert island with only Disco Suicide to listen to, I would not be depressed....In the meantime, I haven't listened to "Green World" yet....

BradH

02-03-2009, 05:29 AM

Seriously, by "one man gig" I reckon I misunderstood your post as implying that Collins galvanized the various talents and was responsible for its vision.

No, I sure don't want to leave that impression. It's not like he auditioned musicians the way Zappa did. Collins was lucky to find those guys. But he was instrumental from the business angle, he had the connections and got the ball rolling. He also had the name recognition. I remember it was reported in the fall of '75 as Collin's "new band" in the music press. That was a good nine months before Brand X's debut lp so obviously he was laying the groundwork to split w/ Genesis at a moments notice.

I know a ton of useless prog nerd trivia. Sometimes I type in a hurry and things get misconstrued.

3-LockBox

02-03-2009, 11:54 AM

I don't think its as touchy as others do, but over at PE, a message board where a Genesis reunion rumor thread is posted at least once a month, there are those who absolutely hate Collins for "ruining Genesis". I think Phil is prevey to that sentiment - prolly finds it amusing and nothing more. I'm sure Collins liked having females attending Genesis concerts.

Auricauricle

02-03-2009, 06:54 PM

I reckon it's just the nature of the job I do. You don't take anything for granted, lest there's some veiled subtext that should be paid attention to. Don't mind me; I listen to the stuff, but I won't call myself an expert by any means, let alone a Trivia Master Extraordinaire....

Funny notes about PC, 3-L! Sounds like he's falling into the same trap Ono fell into fer bustin' up the Beatles....Personally, I have long been a fan of Gabriel's solo work over PC's. While PC is smoother, I thought PG was more visceral....

Jimmy B

02-04-2009, 11:30 PM

I sat and watched all 3 shows tonight, well worth it. Steve Howe's quote" Thinking man's music" sums it up pretty well. Wakeman at the end Saying it is the "porn of the music industry" had me chuckling.
In part one, what was the band Greg Lake was in with the song from West side Story?
Jimmy B

BradH

02-06-2009, 06:04 AM

In part one, what was the band Greg Lake was in with the song from West side Story?

That was Keith Emerson in The Nice doing "America".

Jimmy B

02-06-2009, 11:31 PM

Thanks Brad, Now I need to find it! after I get back from Fla in a week.
JB