OK, What's next?

[Luvin Da Blues]

In a couple of previous threads I eluded to upgrading parts of my rig. I find my pre/amp section stellar so no changing these for awhile. I'm really enjoying my PSBs and when I do upgrade these it will be a large investment, so, not happening in the near future. Everything is up for change (see my sig).

I listen to 'bout half n' half digital vs. Lps. I figure my computer interface is my weak link, currently using a Phillips Aurilium Ext. Sound Card. :Yawn:

Things I am considering are;

1) Multiple input DAC. Maybe USB?

2) Tube buffer

3) New Phono pre

4) New Cartridge

5) TT tweeks

6) A dedicated CD player, not really needed if I do da DAC. Maybe one with multiple
inputs?

Anything else I should consider? Don't really have a budget but would jump on the best "bang for the buck" deals. Thanks Y'all.

LDB

[Feanor]

In a couple of previous threads I eluded to upgrading parts of my rig. I find my pre/amp section stellar so no changing these for awhile. I'm really enjoying my PSBs and when I do upgrade these it will be a large investment, so, not happening in the near future. Everything is up for change (see my sig).
...

Anything else I should consider? Don't really have a budget but would jump on the best "bang for the buck" deals. Thanks Y'all.

LDB

Looks like a great system to me: no glaring weaknesses.

Do much playback from the computer? Having any problems with that? Do you get dropouts and glitches? The sound you get from lossless computer files ought to be as good as you get with direct CD playback. If not, then you computer configuration deserves an upgrade.

What's you computer configuration (beyond the Philips S/C)? What is you operating system? What player do you use? I can tell you for one thing that you won't get bit-perfect delivery with WinXP and iTunes.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Looks like a great system to me: no glaring weaknesses.

Do much playback from the computer? Having any problems with that? Do you get dropouts and glitches? The sound you get from lossless computer files ought to be as good as you get with direct CD playback. If not, then you computer configuration deserves an upgrade.

What's you computer configuration (beyond the Philips S/C)? What is you operating system? What player do you use? I can tell you for one thing that you won't get bit-perfect delivery with WinXP and iTunes.

All my digital listening is via computer so, 'bout 50%. No real problems (never any drop outs), just thinking my SC in a weak link. My OPPO DVD is comparable SQ wise. Both don't have great DACs. This is why I listed a multiple input USB DAC.

I run a Dell XP dual core. Music comes from a 300GB Ext HD (all lossless) thru Winamp MP ==>USB SC (HiDef Audio drivers) ==>preamp. I like Winamp but it tends to be a bit glitzy.

Cheers,

LDB

[Luvin Da Blues]

Here's the specs on the Card.

Audio Specifications:

Signal-to-Noise Ratio: 104dB (typical, A-weighted)
Total Harmonic Distortion +N: 0.009% (typical)
Frequency Response: 20 Hz – 20kHz (notice no +/- dbs)
high quality 24-bit data converters
5.1 channel Surround
Coax and Optical S/PDIF Digital Output
DS3D and EAX supported

[blackraven]

Consider the BenchMark DAC-1, PS Audio digilink III DAC, Monarchy M24 which gives you both analog and digital DAC's.

http://www.dagogo.com/MonarchyM24-SM70Pro-2008.html

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PSDL3
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/ps-audio-dliii-review-followup

Whats your budget?

[Luvin Da Blues]

Thanks BR, no real budget per se. Just going to keep my eyes open for good deals and wanted input at what I should be watching for.

That Monarchy looks sweet but no USB inputs. I guess I could use the digital outputs from my sound card. I like the tube section, wonder how could I use that as a buffer? Maybe kill two birds....

Both the PS Audio and the Benchmark (bit ugly IMO) maybe more what I had in mind, USB & multiple inputs, balanced outs. I have one set of unused XLR inputs on the Marsh pre that I would like to take advantage of. I'll keep an eye open for these.

LDB

[Feanor]

All my digital listening is via computer so, 'bout 50%. No real problems (never any drop outs), just thinking my SC in a weak link. My OPPO DVD is comparable SQ wise. Both don't have great DACs. This is why I listed a multiple input USB DAC.

I run a Dell XP dual core. Music comes from a 300GB Ext HD (all lossless) thru Winamp MP ==>USB SC (HiDef Audio drivers) ==>preamp. I like Winamp but it tends to be a bit glitzy.

Cheers,

LDB

Once again, if the sound of lossless files isn't as good as direct CD play, then you are likely right that new DAC is a good idea.

You obviously have the choice of connecting any DAC with S/PDIF input to the corresponding Philips s/c output, or getting a USB DAC. The state of knowledge is such that no one can say categorically which approach is better in general. The big problem is jitter.

However you should also consider the O/S, drivers, and player. Since WinMP is basically WinXP, it will have the 'kmixer' issue that purists complain about. No technical expert here, but certainly this means avoiding the Windows default 'Direct Sound' drivers. One option in this regard is to use an ASIO driver. I don't think Windows will let you select an ASIO driver under Control Panel > Sound & Audio > Audio: instead your player has to allow you to select it as special option. As I understand, Winamp does provide for the use of certain non-standard drivers.

There is the issue of where to get an ASIO driver. You Philips s/c might come with one: check it out. Otherwise there is something called ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/) which is a software implementation of ASIO that some people recommend. (I haven't used it myself because my M-Audio s/cs have each had their own ASIO drivers).

I do know for a fact that with standard Windows drivers I don't get bit-perfect delivery from my s/c's S/PDIF output to my DAC. This is evidenced by the objective fact that the HDCD indicator usually doesn't light up for HDCD material unless I use the ASIO driver (or the 'kernel streaming' Foobar2000 component in that player).

[Ajani]

Thanks BR, no real budget per se. Just going to keep my eyes open for good deals and wanted input at what I should be watching for.

That Monarchy looks sweet but no USB inputs. I guess I could use the digital outputs from my sound card. I like the tube section, wonder how could I use that as a buffer? Maybe kill two birds....

Both the PS Audio and the Benchmark (bit ugly IMO) maybe more what I had in mind, USB & multiple inputs, balanced outs. I have one set of unused XLR inputs on the Marsh pre that I would like to take advantage of. I'll keep an eye open for these.

LDB

Ugly? :dita:

Seriously though, it looks a hell of a lot better in person (ummmm equipment, whatever)...

In your position I'd be looking at the DACs BR suggested.... or if you no longer want to have to connect the computer directly to the DAC, then a DAC and a Squeezebox...

[Luvin Da Blues]

However you should also consider the O/S, drivers, and player............

Thanks Feanor, I'm sure I'm using the divers that came with the card so, I'll this check out.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Ugly? :dita:

Seriously though, it looks a hell of a lot better in person (ummmm equipment, whatever)...

In your position I'd be looking at the DACs BR suggested.... or if you no longer want to have to connect the computer directly to the DAC, then a DAC and a Squeezebox...

Come on now Aj, I said IMO.:lol: The looks would not be in anyway a deal breaker. I'm gunna be looking out for the PS Audio & Benchmark DACs. My computer is in a room directly behind my rig (I run the cables thru the wall with data coverplates) so no need to fling the signal.

[Luvin Da Blues]

BTW, I'm not just limiting myself to one upgrade either. Like I said, If a smokin' deal shows up well......

[hifitommy]

i would say upgrade to a mc cartridge like an AToc9 or denon 103c and that would be a noticeable improvement and you dont even need a new phono section. there are other choices to consider in the way of mc cartridges.

[Luvin Da Blues]

i would say upgrade to a mc cartridge like an AToc9 or denon 103c and that would be a noticeable improvement and you dont even need a new phono section. there are other choices to consider in the way of mc cartridges.

What, and get rid of my beloved "budget" cartridge???:lol: Good point and duly noted. Thanks

[hifitommy]

i got one of those YEARS ago from J+R in ny for $80 when if first came out. i loved it and my friend urged me to buy a backup. i didnt as i have many carts to start with. a lot of people said on the net that it is bright but they were exaggerating a bit.

my friend bought one and put it on his vpi hw19 jr/rega 3 and was quite happy for a long while. now he has an oc 9 and is happier.

recently, i did buy a 440MLa for $99 as a backup and it remains in its package and will for quite a while.

further on down the road, my recommendation is an ortofon Kontrapunkt b from juki in HK. a lot more money but for a lot more cartridge. i intend to own one someday.

[Feanor]

BTW, I'm not just limiting myself to one upgrade either. Like I said, If a smokin' deal shows up well......

On the music side, (other than more music), my next upgrade will be a 1 terabyte hard drive to ensure lots of space for my ripped collection.

On the HT side it will be a 50" 1080p plasma HDTV -- I still living with a 27" CRT. :sad:

[Luvin Da Blues]

i would say upgrade to a mc cartridge like an AToc9 or denon 103c and that would be a noticeable improvement and you dont even need a new phono section. there are other choices to consider in the way of mc cartridges.

I see LP Gear has the ATo9 on for $339. Hmmm, for under $1000 with the Music Hall DAC (a must hear when it hits the market) I would have some real sweet upgrades.:thumbsup: Thanks Guys

[Rich-n-Texas]

Who was the one callng me money-bags??? :rolleyes:

[Luvin Da Blues]

Who was the one callng me money-bags??? :rolleyes:

No, not really. Just a matter of priorities. Obviously, I have mine all screwed up.:out:

[Rich-n-Texas]

The same could be said for me too I guess. Over the weekend I connected up my vintage Pioneer receiver, turntable and CD player to my computer's sound card. I'm going to get serious about transfering my vinyl onto my HDD. My XM home docking station is on it's way and I'll be sub'ing to it before the end of the week, and my new Oppo should be here in a couple of days. All this with a very large layoff looming. I must be :crazy: huh?

[Luvin Da Blues]

You ordered the OPPO? The 980? Right On Rich!

Matter of fact I haven't spent one dime on my rig in over a year so, the $1000 (this years budget) spread over two years is nuttin'. With these upgrades I should be starting to get somewhere with my setup. After this I'm gunna start thinking about next years new speaks ($4K~5K).:22:

Enjoy the OPPO.

LDB

[Woochifer]

If you're happy with the performance that your hardware puts out, I don't see any reason to upgrade for sake of upgrading. The big 'upgrade' I would look into is your room. How are the acoustics, and have you done anything to treat any deficiencies?

In my experience, the room makes just as big a difference as the speakers in defining the "personality" of your audio system. IMO, it's more crucial than the digital front end components, amplification, cabling, etc. Only the speakers and analog front end components have an equivalent amount of variation to account for.

If you prefer to stick with hardware upgrades, I would either save up for the speakers or invest a portion of your budget on a cartridge upgrade (IMO, the most overlooked component with an analog setup). The cartridge really defines how your vinyl sounds, more so than the turntable and tonearm (of course, a crappy turntable/tonearm will sound lousy no matter what cartridge you put on it, but even an entry level turntable/tonearm can perform very well with a decent cartridge).

[noddin0ff]

Just a quick comment on USB DACs. Most USB inputs into DACs limit the input sampling rate to 48KHz (44.1KHz is fine of course). If you want to upsample upstream, you'll need to run optical or coaxial to the DAC. This limit on USB would also impair your ability to listen to Hi-Res files from sources other than redbook CD's.

I've been playing with upsampling to my Zhaolu D2.5 DAC (optical in, to Senn HD580). My MacBook Pro will upsample the digial out to 2 channel 24 bit/96KHz. After flipping back and forth, I have to admit that upsampled sounds better. Being skeptic by nature, I didn't want to believe it. However, I did this trial on and off for several months on many many tracks. My ears are 100% certain and never doubted. My Brain still can't rationalize the difference. More spacious depth, less edge.

Anyway, my home system runs to the MD10 (both sell here http://www.ifiaudio.com/about.html but I got the MD10 from Pacific Valve http://www.pacificvalve.us/). Right now my home audio computer is an old laptop with no optical out. I feel I'm not getting the most out of it and will switch to optical as soon as possible.

Ok, not so short of a comment...

Also, I would strongly suggest browsing Pacific Valve & Electric's DAC. I've been happy with my lower end buys. The transactions and the hardware have been excellent. You also get more info as to what's inside the black box, unlike most of these supposed 'audiophile' manufacturers. (parenthetically, I'd posit that if they don't let you under the hood, then their selling more style and hype than substance...)

[Luvin Da Blues]

Just a quick comment on USB DACs. Most USB inputs into DACs limit the input sampling rate to 48KHz (44.1KHz is fine of course). Interesting point, I did not know this.

Anyway, my home system runs to the MD10 (both sell here http://www.ifiaudio.com/about.html but I got the MD10 from Pacific Valve http://www.pacificvalve.us/). Right now my home audio computer is an old laptop with no optical out. I feel I'm not getting the most out of it and will switch to optical as soon as possible. 'spose I could still use the digital outputs of my S/C.


Also, I would strongly suggest browsing Pacific Valve & Electric's DAC. I've been happy with my lower end buys. The transactions and the hardware have been excellent. You also get more info as to what's inside the black box, unlike most of these supposed 'audiophile' manufacturers. (parenthetically, I'd posit that if they don't let you under the hood, then their selling more style and hype than substance...) Cool sites, any comments on the Lite DACs? The MD10 loooks like a nice unit but, I am strongly leaning towards a tube DAC with balanced outs to take advantage of the balanced inputs on my Marsh pre.

Thanks for the comments and I'll certainly consider these points,

LDB

[Luvin Da Blues]

If you're happy with the performance that your hardware puts out, I don't see any reason to upgrade for sake of upgrading.

Oh, I'm happy with my "Chevy" just want to drive a "Mercedes". :1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh, I'm happy with my "Chevy" just want to drive a "Mercedes". :1:
I think you meant PONTIAC, LDB. :yesnod:

[Luvin Da Blues]

I think you meant PONTIAC, LDB. :yesnod:

I was gunna say Pontiac (since I do drive one), but Chevy fit better.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Repeat after me... I'm happy with my Chevy, just want to drive a Pontiac. See what I'm sayin'?

[Luvin Da Blues]

Repeat after me... I'm happy with my Chevy, just want to drive a Pontiac. See what I'm sayin'?


LMAO,Missed that one. Still wanna drive a MB. :ciappa:

[audio amateur]

Once again, if the sound of lossless files isn't as good as direct CD play, then you are likely right that new DAC is a good idea.

You obviously have the choice of connecting any DAC with S/PDIF input to the corresponding Philips s/c output, or getting a USB DAC. The state of knowledge is such that no one can say categorically which approach is better in general. The big problem is jitter.

However you should also consider the O/S, drivers, and player. Since WinMP is basically WinXP, it will have the 'kmixer' issue that purists complain about. No technical expert here, but certainly this means avoiding the Windows default 'Direct Sound' drivers. One option in this regard is to use an ASIO driver. I don't think Windows will let you select an ASIO driver under Control Panel > Sound & Audio > Audio: instead your player has to allow you to select it as special option. As I understand, Winamp does provide for the use of certain non-standard drivers.

There is the issue of where to get an ASIO driver. You Philips s/c might come with one: check it out. Otherwise there is something called ASIO4ALL (http://www.asio4all.com/) which is a software implementation of ASIO that some people recommend. (I haven't used it myself because my M-Audio s/cs have each had their own ASIO drivers).

I do know for a fact that with standard Windows drivers I don't get bit-perfect delivery from my s/c's S/PDIF output to my DAC. This is evidenced by the objective fact that the HDCD indicator usually doesn't light up for HDCD material unless I use the ASIO driver (or the 'kernel streaming' Foobar2000 component in that player).
Bill,
Does the ASIO driver work with WMP? If so how do you configure it?

[Feanor]

Bill,
Does the ASIO driver work work with WMP? If so how do you configure it?

I don't believe that the one for my sound card does, but I don't use WMP so I'm not 100% sure. I don't think that you can set up ASIO as your standard Windows driver via Control Panel > Sound & Audio Devices so this percludes its use with a lot of music players. So I'm not aware that you can use ASIO with WMP or with iTunes.

However you can use ASIORALL (http://www.asio4all.com/) with WinAmp as well as Foobar. A good discussion of the Windows sound system can be found at Head-fi.org (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/asio4all-explanation-221237/) where the setup for ASIO4All is discussed in some detail. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks very promising.

[noddin0ff]

Cool sites, any comments on the Lite DACs? The MD10 loooks like a nice unit but, I am strongly leaning towards a tube DAC with balanced outs to take advantage of the balanced inputs on my Marsh pre.

From what I can piece together from the descriptions, many of the Lite DACs are variants on a theme. They all have much in common with the MD10 (minus a function or two). They are variously modded; mostly to improve the analog output. That's my take on the solid state DACs. I haven't delved into tube DACs. I think I'm a bit afraid of the added complications. I mean, what if I tried one and liked it... Then I'd open up a whole new world of audio anxiety I'm just not prepared to face. PV&E does have a good line up of tube DACs. I don't know anything about tubes.
http://www.pacificvalve.us/VacuumTubeDacs.html

[Luvin Da Blues]

...... I haven't delved into tube DACs. I think I'm a bit afraid of the added complications. I mean, what if I tried one and liked it... Then I'd open up a whole new world of audio anxiety I'm just not prepared to face........

I think I just may try the new Music Hall tune DAC when it comes available. Then I'll post a review on my adventurous journey into the deep dark tube abyss.

[emesbee]

Repeat after me... I'm happy with my Chevy, just want to drive a Pontiac. See what I'm sayin'?

Sounds like the arguments people have over here about Fords vs Holdens. Gawd! :sleep:

[audio amateur]

Repeat after me... I'm happy with my Chevy, just want to drive a Pontiac. See what I'm sayin'?
Can you name me any one Pontiac that can beat a Chevy Z06?:devil: