First home audio purchase

[FUDU]

Hey, I'm a bit uneducated as to who is who is the home theater world so I am looking for some thoughts on what I plan on doing.

By no means am I willing to spends much more than $1500-$2500.

I am setting up my first home theater in a 1400sq foot home and have a very large MP3/WAV file music collection that I would like to take advantage of. So I have been very intrigued by the Sonos system. I entertain somewhat often and do so outside and in during the summer, so the flexibility with the Sonos is nice.

What I have is a 37" LG Plasma 1080 and nothing else right now.

What I wanted to do was get a starter Sonos package with the bridge of course and their non amp Zone player (IIRC Zone90) and of course the controller. Then a Paradigm RX V663 receiver with matching Paradigm Cinema 70CT speakers.

While my situation might not require a receiver (which would then require the better Zone player) and anything better than speakers that can found at an HHGregg I know in the end I will regret not spending a few more dollars for some quality.

Any thoughts on the equipment I am leaning toward? I've listened to a demo of everything i have listed and I like it, for $2100 (NIB) out the door what is not to like right?

Any thoughts or advice + or - would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Mr Peabody]

Paradigm receiver? Is that a mistake? Looks like a Yamaha model#.

I like the sound of Paradigm personally and think they are a great choice over the mass market stuff you could have ended up with.

I'm not familiar with Sonos. I know of them, just no experience with it.

[FUDU]

Paradigm receiver? Is that a mistake? Looks like a Yamaha model#.

I like the sound of Paradigm personally and think they are a great choice over the mass market stuff you could have ended up with.

I'm not familiar with Sonos. I know of them, just no experience with it.
Receiver is a Yam RXV 663 A/V my bad.

[Mr Peabody]

Alright, we don't normally allow mistakes here at AR but we'll give you one more chance, from here on out you are on double probation :)

A lot of members here use Yamaha and find it reliable so if it meets your feature needs and you like the sound I feel it would be a good choice.

Some don't find much difference in the sound of receivers. In the mass merchant offerings I personally favor Onkyo finding it has a stronger amp section and higher current which gives better driver control and more punch in the bottom end.

[f0rge]

there are cheaper alternatives to the SONOS, much cheaper.

Linksys just showed one and CES and Apple has always sort of had one, but it was made better with the ability to use an iTouch/iPhone as a remote.

i use the Apple setup and have good results
-computer with itunes (you probably already have one)
-wireless network of some sort (again you probably already have one)
-Apple Airport Express with Airtunes ($99 each, but one where you want music)
-iPod Touch or iPhone ($199-399)

i already had an iPhone so this sort of setup made sense to me.

[FUDU]

No itunes for me and no need for the phone purchase, but thanks for the input none the less.

[f0rge]

No itunes for me and no need for the phone purchase, but thanks for the input none the less.

just yesterday i was made aware of a program that allows you to stream any audio source over an Airport Express. it's called Airfoil, even with an iTouch purchase you'd be hundreds under the cost of even the most basic Sonos setup.

anyway just thought i'd let you know.

here's a link to the new linksys setup:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5124844/linksys-wireless-home-audio-system-streams-all-around-your-house-secretly-aspires-to-kill-sonos

[FUDU]

just yesterday i was made aware of a program that allows you to stream any audio source over an Airport Express. it's called Airfoil, even with an iTouch purchase you'd be hundreds under the cost of even the most basic Sonos setup.

anyway just thought i'd let you know.

here's a link to the new linksys setup:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5124844/linksys-wireless-home-audio-system-streams-all-around-your-house-secretly-aspires-to-kill-sonos

Thanks, but from what I can tell it is as costly as Sonos if not more so.

I'm pretty certain I am decided just want to get some opinions on the receiver and speakers and make sure I wasn't getting a poor product in regards to those.

[f0rge]

Thanks, but from what I can tell it is as costly as Sonos if not more so.

I'm pretty certain I am decided just want to get some opinions on the receiver and speakers and make sure I wasn't getting a poor product in regards to those.

gotcha, Sonos is a good product, just wanted to make sure you knew there were alternatives

in regard to the receiver/speakers i have 2 opinions. i'll start with a caveat that neither of those are poor products. i dont know what your price range is, so take what i say with a grain of salt if i'm blowing your budget out of the water

-the receiver looks good, has decoding for the new bluray HD sound formats, however depending on what your plans are for your HT you may find yourself limited by only having 2 HDMI inputs. check out an onkyo 606, it's probably the best band for the buck in this price range.

-those are small speakers, i gather you'll be listening to a lot of music, i would go with a bigger speaker with bigger drivers. those are designed more for HT than music, you should audition some paradigm minis (or better yet titans) from the monitor series if you want to stick with bookshelves, i think you will prefer them for music.

[FUDU]

gotcha, Sonos is a good product, just wanted to make sure you knew there were alternatives

in regard to the receiver/speakers i have 2 opinions. i'll start with a caveat that neither of those are poor products. i dont know what your price range is, so take what i say with a grain of salt if i'm blowing your budget out of the water

-the receiver looks good, has decoding for the new bluray HD sound formats, however depending on what your plans are for your HT you may find yourself limited by only having 2 HDMI inputs. check out an onkyo 606, it's probably the best band for the buck in this price range.

-those are small speakers, i gather you'll be listening to a lot of music, i would go with a bigger speaker with bigger drivers. those are designed more for HT than music, you should audition some paradigm minis (or better yet titans) from the monitor series if you want to stick with bookshelves, i think you will prefer them for music.
My priorities for this set up are 60-65% music first, everything else second.

[f0rge]

My priorities for this set up are 60-65% music first, everything else second.

i that case i would definitely look at a different type of speaker, if you like the paradigms then the monitor series is something i would seriously consider. i've had some experience with them and they are very nice. there's nothing wrong with looking at bookshelves, but i would look at something with a much bigger cabinet and at least a 6inch woofer.

side by side, for music, the monitors will blow away the cinemas.

[FUDU]

i that case i would definitely look at a different type of speaker, if you like the paradigms then the monitor series is something i would seriously consider. i've had some experience with them and they are very nice. there's nothing wrong with looking at bookshelves, but i would look at something with a much bigger cabinet and at least a 6inch woofer.

side by side, for music, the monitors will blow away the cinemas.
Comparable in price?

[f0rge]

honestly no idea, i've never looked into the cinema series

[FUDU]

Just priced the lowest level Monitor series and with a price break they are still double what I would pay for the Cinema Series, so that is a no for me. But I do appreciate the heads up.

[BadAssJazz]

It sounds to me like you're ready to pull the trigger and put the theory to the test. Short of auditioning everything in your home, it's the only way to know if what you have in mind truly works for you. Go for it, man! Let us know how it turns out.

[sallysue]

Hey, I'm a bit uneducated as to who is who is the home theater world so I am looking for some thoughts on what I plan on doing.

By no means am I willing to spends much more than $1500-$2500.

I am setting up my first home theater in a 1400sq foot home and have a very large MP3/WAV file music collection that I would like to take advantage of. So I have been very intrigued by the Sonos system. I entertain somewhat often and do so outside and in during the summer, so the flexibility with the Sonos is nice.

What I have is a 37" LG Plasma 1080 and nothing else right now.

What I wanted to do was get a starter Sonos package with the bridge of course and their non amp Zone player (IIRC Zone90) and of course the controller. Then a Paradigm RX V663 receiver with matching Paradigm Cinema 70CT speakers.

While my situation might not require a receiver (which would then require the better Zone player) and anything better than speakers that can found at an HHGregg I know in the end I will regret not spending a few more dollars for some quality.

Any thoughts on the equipment I am leaning toward? I've listened to a demo of everything i have listed and I like it, for $2100 (NIB) out the door what is not to like right?

Any thoughts or advice + or - would be appreciated.

I'll stick to things I know directly about and worked with personally.

Receiver:

The Yamaha RXV line is a very affordable and good quality reciever line. I have worked with this line for years in custom install and always spec'ed out a Yamaha unless the customer had another prefrence. Why? Reliablity, I knew it was'nt coming back a week after the install. The 663 is a fine receiver ( I know it well ) for your application and has pleanty of toys and power to boot.

Speakers -

Paradigm is a fine selection - another great Canandian speaker company among several others.

- Performance - Speakers are rated in SPL (sound pressure lever) per cubic foot of space. Larger speakers can produce higher peaks of spl on demand. You can save by by crossing over smaller speakers and sending 100hz and below to the sub. Not ideal but will fool most listeners if done correctly and save your 663 precious head room that can be used for 2nd zone audio. The 80hz crossover (really it's 75 but we're not getting technical) frequency is not critical if done correctly. The CT 70's with thier 3" drivers will need considerably higher crossover to the sub - something in the 150 to 200 range, you'll have to fiddle with it to get it right. For this type of setup to work well the sub MUST be in the front with the RLC.

Sonos - Extensive experience with these little players - they work well but are expensive. I hear there are other less expensive options but I don't know jack about those.

Hope this helps....

[FUDU]

I'll stick to things I know directly about and worked with personally.

Receiver:

The Yamaha RXV line is a very affordable and good quality reciever line. I have worked with this line for years in custom install and always spec'ed out a Yamaha unless the customer had another prefrence. Why? Reliablity, I knew it was'nt coming back a week after the install. The 663 is a fine receiver ( I know it well ) for your application and has pleanty of toys and power to boot.

Speakers -

Paradigm is a fine selection - another great Canandian speaker company among several others.

- Performance - Speakers are rated in SPL (sound pressure lever) per cubic foot of space. Larger speakers can produce higher peaks of spl on demand. You can save by by crossing over smaller speakers and sending 100hz and below to the sub. Not ideal but will fool most listeners if done correctly and save your 663 precious head room that can be used for 2nd zone audio. The 80hz crossover (really it's 75 but we're not getting technical) frequency is not critical if done correctly. The CT 70's with thier 3" drivers will need considerably higher crossover to the sub - something in the 150 to 200 range, you'll have to fiddle with it to get it right. For this type of setup to work well the sub MUST be in the front with the RLC.

Sonos - Extensive experience with these little players - they work well but are expensive. I hear there are other less expensive options but I don't know jack about those.

Hope this helps....
Appreciate the insightful post. Some of what you said is way over my head, when I get it set up maybe I'll ask you to go into deeper explanation, like the 150-200 stuff, I have no clue. But I gather from what you said I won't be taking everything out of the box, setting it up and having it work (or work its best) from the get go?

[sallysue]

Appreciate the insightful post. Some of what you said is way over my head, when I get it set up maybe I'll ask you to go into deeper explanation, like the 150-200 stuff, I have no clue. But I gather from what you said I won't be taking everything out of the box, setting it up and having it work (or work its best) from the get go?


150-200 stuff

It's just a dial on the back of the sub, no big deal.

The 663 has an auto-calibration setup system, use that and see how it sounds. It will tell you in the instructions what to do with the subwoofer dials.

The calibration system will :

1) sense where the speakers are relative to the listening position
2)set the crossover frequencies
3)correct for time delay - (critical for clear dialouge)
4) adjust each speaker/sub for correct SPL ( each speaker the same/proper volume )
5) Equalize for some room anomolies ( a little hokie but it does okay)

All automatically with a touch of a button.


It will sound great when you set it up the first time. But if you are a perfectionist, it may require some fiddling.

[FUDU]

Understood, thanks.

[Mr Peabody]

Many subs today have a "bypass" switch to be used when hooked to the receiver's "LFE" or "sub" out. This bypasses the internal crossover and lets the receiver adjust the crossover frequency for the sub in the set up menu. If not a bypass then rotate the crossover knob to the highest setting.

SPL has to do with a speakers sensitivity not it's size. For example I had a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's that were 89dB efficient and my son had a pair of Studio Monitor 10" 2-way, the Kappa's were 12" 3-way and at least double the size physically. The SM-100's were about 101dB efficient. We hooked both sets up to the same amp and you couldn't even tell my Kappa's were even on. The sensitivity rating is sometimes shown as SPL but given in decibels (dB), usually 1 watt at 1 meter.

This gets a little deep but you may want to put it in your favorites after you read it for future reference.

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/dB.html

Your delay settings are for timing and spacial cues. I really haven't noticed the delays effecting dialog.

[sallysue]

SPL has to do with a speakers sensitivity not it's size. For example I had a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's that were 89dB efficient and my son had a pair of Studio Monitor 10" 2-way, the Kappa's were 12" 3-way and at least double the size physically. The SM-100's were about 101dB efficient. We hooked both sets up to the same amp and you couldn't even tell my Kappa's were even on. The sensitivity rating is sometimes shown as SPL but given in decibels (dB), usually 1 watt at 1 meter.

I try to give people answers to questions (when asked) based on the questioners backround and interest. The process of electrical energy turning into mechanical is not suited for all and in fact many aren't interested. Larger speakers DO produce more sound for all practical real-world applications. The question of sensitivity is a different one. Concrete speaker cones are harder to drive then ones made of fly paper - true. For a given amount of amplified power, speakers with lower sensitivities will produce less sound than those of higher sensitivity. Sensitivity is no guarantee of anything other than the transducers is easier to drive for the amplifier.


Your delay settings are for timing and spacial cues. I really haven't noticed the delays effecting dialog

Delays -

The human ear ( which in not linear ) is very sensitive sound delays - milliseconds. If the speakers are off it CAN cause dialouge clarity problems. Many of the trouble spots that exist in setting up a HT (correctly) can not be adjusted by a human being (ear) - you need a machine. If you don't have an internal time delay on your pre-pro, give one a try and see what you think.This is just one of many factors that goes under the title - room related problems. I could go on for 10 pages and we could discuss room nodes and three plane spacial loading and the useless impact of a 1/3 band equalizer and slap echos and the nonsense of the doplar effect and high frequency response that only bats can hear and wonderstuff b.s that the industry sells to people with a straight face and and and and ............but

[Mr Peabody]

I can't quite agree with you on sensitivity, it has a lot to do with the loudness, real or perceived, why do you think pro sound speakers are 105dB or higher and not 89dB as an average home speaker is. With the same signal input a higher sensitive speaker will play louder.

Time delay is a basic setting and I haven't seen a HT receiver or preamp without it yet. Dialog comes mainly from the center channel. If you've noticed more clarity from timing I'll have to trust you on that but I have not. It has more to do with the sound from all speakers reaching you at the same time and the spacial cues.

[FUDU]

bump...

Got everything set up (the Yamaha receiver, Paradigm CT speakers (with subwoofer) and I have to say I love it. Almost a perfect solution for my living space.

[Mr Peabody]

Good deal.