Seeking some advice...and a challenge for you guys!

[Jerminator]

Hi All,

I'm a noob to the forum, though I have been lurking for a few weeks. I am hoping for a little advice. My parents have asked me to help them pick a new TV/AV system. Originally, they just said TV, but their real issue is sound clarity (voice in particular), so this seemed like a good time to get them an AV system as well - either that or a TV with really good speakers, but I don't really think that is an option. Here are the parameters I am working with:

Large room (approx 20 X 20 - maybe a little bigger) with a vaulted ceiling (12' at the peak). However, the furniture is configured in a small layout around the TV.

Existing equipment is a Motorola HDPVR box and a Toshiba combo DVD/VCR. They have an older Panasonic all-in-one stereo/cd player with 5 small speakers, but I am assuming that it will not be used.

TV size preference is 42 or 46 - this is mostly dictated by the budget though (see below). Room is quite bright (West facing) so I was assuming LCD over Plasma but can be convinced otherwise (please don't let this degenerate into the LCD/Plasma argument that I have found all over these forums - value is the key issue!). 720P is an option as they really won't notice the difference, especially considering screen size.

They mostly watch TV and the occasional movie. No sports. I have convinced them to get the HD box by showing them the clarity of picture on mine (42" Toshiba Rezga - 720P).

They are reasonably tech savvy - for 70 year olds. But they live on an island so any significant troubleshooting needs to be done over the phone or on my occasional visits. For this reason I did give thought to a Samsung TV/HTIB combo, just because of the remote compatiblity issues and the fact that Futureshop had some good deals. However, I am aware of the drawbacks of a HTIB.

They can live with the existing DVD/VCR combo for now - I can get them a new DVD or Blu-Ray player at a later date as a gift.

Budget is a challenge - they have said that it is flexible (up to a point) but I am working with about a $2000 Canadian ceiling (before tax). That's about $1600 US right now.

They don't have any gaming systems (or plans to get one!) - by dad does digital photography and it woudl be cool if he coudl hook his Nikon D90 up to the system -either directly or through a USB link or SD card reader. They have a laptop too, and once they have this thing set up, it might be worth my while to show them how to hook that up to the system too - but not a mandatory. iPod connectivity falls into the same category as the laptop - nice to have, but not a must (mostly for when I take the family to visit!)

Ok - I think that is all of it (I have tried to be thorough). TV's that I have primarily looked at were the Samsung Series 5 LCD's and Series 4 plasma's (there are some really good deals on the 720P plasma's). Again, I am prepared to loook at anything ('cept LG - I have heard that they are crap).

So I throw it over to you guys - no suggestion will be refused. Just keep in mind that I am in Canada, so shipping/customs fees are an issue. Who's up for the challenge?

[blackraven]

Get a Sony LCD. I have a 52" Sony XBR4 and the sound is fantastick for a TV. The picture is excellent and glare reflection is minimal. The samsungs have a higher glare screen then the sony's. Picture quality is otherwise very similar. Get the sony for them and forget about a cheap HTIB, the sound from the Sony is excellent.

[Jerminator]

Thanks. I originally looked at Sony TVs...and I will again now. But to be honest, I was kind of put off by the design. That crazy space below the screen really aggravates me for some reason - it just seem to catch my eye and I find myself looking through the TV frame at the stuff behind. How is the sound differentiation (in terms of separating voice from other sound)?

[blackraven]

The audio on my sony is the best of any TV that I have owned. Sound differentiation is excellent. If it wasnt, I would not have bought this TV.
I listened to Samsungs, LG's, Sharps and Toshiba's but this was the best.

[RoadRunner6]

I just exchanged a 50" Panasonic 768p plasma for the same series 50" 1080p Panny plasma. I am 64yrs old. They will absolutely positively see the difference since the 1080p model has a higher contrast ratio and is noticably brighter with more color saturation. The resolution improvement I can detect up to 15 feet. My wife could also immediately see the improvement. These newer models from Panasonic are plenty bright even for a bright room. I recommend either the 46" model from Costco, TH-C46FD18 or the regular Panny model TH-46PZ80U. They are the same set except the Costco model has a flat satin bezel instead of the gloss black bezel and the Costco model includes a PC input. They both have photo SD card slots. The Costco model in the states is $950. A great set at a great price.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Televisions/VIERA-Plasma-HDTVs/model.TH-C50FD18_11002_7000000000000005702 (the Costco 46" is the exact same as this except for the size)

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Televisions/VIERA-Plasma-HDTVs/model.TH-46PZ80U_11002_7000000000000005702

Look for a quality small 5.1 speaker system like the Energy Take Classic system which lists in the states for $599 and sells at Costco for $399. This is an excellent sounding system, very musical and defined midrange with good low bass extension for a relativley small sub.

http://hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/608energy/

Buy an entry level AV receiver for about $200-$300 US from Onkyo, Yamaha or Denon.

You also might want to look for a All 4 One universal remote that can run all components for $50-$100.

RR6

[Jerminator]

Ok - so the suggestions so far are use the money to purchase a kick ass Sony and not worry about the audio set up or consider a Panasonic TV (niether of those models available from Costco in Canada - all they carry are the two 720P models or the 50" 1080P (which is out of the price range if I have to get the other components http://www.costco.ca/Common/Category.aspx?whse=BCCA&Ne=5000001&eCat=BCCA|79&N=4008766+4294967218&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&topnav=

Interestingly, Costco does carry a reasonably priced Yamaha HT system http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10310129&forcelang=en-CA (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10310129&whse=BCCA&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-CA)
- it's currently $100 off too ($399 total). Anyone have any thoughts on this? Any further suggestiosn other than the two above (much appreciated by the way)?

[RoadRunner6]

What Costco carries online is not the same as they carry in their retail locations. Both change from day to day and week to week. However, the store inventory is more consistant than online. (keep checking)

There is no way the sound in any TV is going to come even close to the sound quality of a reasonable 5.1 system and receiver like I mentioned above. However, some people would rather not have 5 speakers and a sub to place in the room. That is a decision you have to make.

My question would be what are your buying options? Are you near a retail Costco or a Best Buy or Future Shop, etc?

The Sony is the best of the LCD's in my opinion but is surpassed by the Panasonic and Samsung plasmas for overall picture quality and also cheaper. However, if you go with the TV only then you need to go up to the top models in the plasma models for the better built-in speakers.

If you don't have a local Costco I would look for the Panasonic TH-46PZ80U at a local store or online in Canada. Those that have purchased both it and the Costco version here and at other forums are raving about the price/performance. The Panny models seem to be about $300 higher in Canada so I presume the Costco TH-C46FD18 would run about
$1300 or so and several hundred dollars more at regular stores for the PZ80U.

OK, just found the Costco version in the US is for sale online at Best Buy in Canada, I immediately would jump on this plasma at this great price thru Jan 4th!

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926HDS0010115724&catid=23249&logon=&langid=EN

Now that I look further here is the speaker system I highly recommend at a superb price. this goes for $600 in the US. These are far superior to the speakers in that Yamaha system.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10095518&catid=

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28954

Here are several choices on receivers:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10085833&catid=20313 (one left, grab it)

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10099880&catid=20313

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10099881&catid=20313

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10092669&catid=

I know this is a little over your budget. However, I can't emphasize enough that the price and quality on both the Panasonic 46" plasma and the Energy speaker system are way above anything else near these prices. This makes for a really outstanding system for the money.

RR6

[Jerminator]

Thanks Road Runner. I'm on Vancouver Island (just sail north!) and my parents live on one of the Gulf Islands. There is a Futureshop and a Costco relatively close by. Best Buy is on the mainland, but online ordering/shipping is always an option, given that getting the TV to them will likely cost a ferry ride anyway. I'll have a look through those links - I can always wait for the speakers to go on sale (a sale at Futureshop is like a sale at the grocery store - there is always another one just a week away). If you had to choose one of those receivers, which would it be? I'm guessing the Denon, though the chance of them ever going with the 7:1 set-up is pretty small.

[RoadRunner6]

Hello Vancouver Island & B.C. (God's country)

I was doing my best to stay down in your budget.

This Panasonic TV is the 46" version of the TV I have in a 50" (which I am watching now as I type this). I paid $1299 US and the 46" is $950US ($350 less is a great deal), both at Costco, although they are now out of the 46" for awhile and the 50" is back up to $1450. If you rush on any of these items I would rush on the TV first. From what I can see that is a great buy up in Canada. It is really a super quality TV (you will definitely see an improvement even over the Toshiba Regza 720p). Until recently they stocked it here in my local Costco. Also I like the TH-C46FD18 model because it has the flat black bezel which is much more practical since it does not reflect light. It also has a PC Input which the PZ80U does not.

I would rush on the speakers second. These Energy Take Classics are a new version of the old Take 5 system ($800) which I owned 2 sets of back a few years. It was the most successful and highly regarded of all the small satellite/sub systems for a number of years. This new version is now made in China rather than Canada (Yes, Energy is a Canadian company which was a division of API which was recently bought by Klispch) and hence the lower price, list of $600 US. It is still a very fine system and has excellent sound, very clean midrange for dialogue and music. It is very small, see the dimensions, but still has impressive sound for small to medium areas. Costco has these now in stock at our store. It comes in a rather compact all in one box. This price is so low that I'm not sure if you will see it again in the future or not.

The receivers are a dime a dozen and you have many choices. Forget 5.1 versus 7.1 receivers. A 5.1 system is just fine for them and the extra two channels cause no problem on the slightly higher priced 7.1 receivers. Costco here was also stocking two receivers, a Yamaha and a Denon, both good prices. Unless your parents like their sound very loud then you shouldn't need a lot of power with the powered sub. As you go up in price in receivers you get a little more power (probably not very important for them) and more bells and whistles. The only significant one that I'll mention is the capability to play the new highest quality audio from Blu-Ray discs. It is called Dolby True HD (and DTS HD, a competing format). The receivers that have this also have a slightly better version of the regular Dolby Digital called Dolby Digital Plus. All the new receivers still play the regular Dolby Digital which is still on the Blu-Ray discs. The sound difference is an improvement but it costs and the Dolby Digital still sounds excellent, Dobly True HD sounds superb. You would have to move up to about the $500 range to get it, like here:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10099878&catid=20313

Of the receivers listed above it is a tough call but the Denon AVR688 does have a few small items that are good. Otherwise the Yamaha HTR6140 would be OK. If you see the Onkyo TX-SR506 it is also an excellent choice.

Whatever you do, I recommend you pass on extended warranties and expensive speaker wire and audio and video cables (all high profit items which regular retailers push very hard). They will probably need your setup help. Fairly heavy gauge bulk speaker wire is fine or lamp zip cord from a hardwares store is also OK. Buy your cables from the cheaper brands (forget the expensive Monster brand) or buy here:

http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp

If you get into a Blu-Ray player this one is excellent. It is highly rated and they are low on stcok and the price is back up. it was $199 at Costco but is now at $280. Should come back down in awhile.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10112317&catid=25174

RR6

[f0rge]

for your parents?

this for sound:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10111698&logon=&langid=EN

this for TV:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0770HDS0010111234&catid=

id there's any money left over, see if you can get that receiver upgraded to something that can decode TrueHD and DTS:MA

[jaytrezza]

i recently bought an LG 42PG20 plasma and could not be happier!! i bought it from fry's (though i usuually steer clear of them because they never have advertised or online stuff in stock. I originally went to buy the panasonic 42" th42px80u but lo' and behold they did not have it.well the tv was to be my christmas present and i probabl;y was not leaving the store without one. the panny, a samsung, and the lg were side by side by side in a darkened portion of the store so the tv's did not seem to be turned up to flourescent lighting high intensity brightness . the panny was somewhat better than the lg but the lg was much better than the samsung...so i took it.(i must have watched for a half hour trying to pick apart the lg but could not really justify any gripes) when i got home i was already regretting my decision not to wait, but when i connected it up the picture was amazing! i was going to get a blu-ray player but after watching dvd's on the 720p i decided no way jose(also consider i have over 200 dvd's) but i really am very impressed with hd and even the standard def stuff. i no longer regret going lg. this particular model was recommended by consumer reports for what that is worth. the best part is i only paid $650.00! i am not sure about lg lcd's.

[Jerminator]

Well you weren't kidding about not seeing the Energy's at that price again. I picked up the Pansonic TV from BestBuy but when I went to purchase the speakers, the price had changed from $399 to $899 (even though they weren't on sale - almost makes me wonder if there was a typo)! YIKES. So now I am looking for an affordable set of speakers before I take the leap and buy the receiver...any further suggestions?

[Jerminator]

Hey guys - any thoughts on this? http://tinyurl.com/9r62me

It's one of the receivers that RoadRunner recommended + the Energy C-50 system. They have also dropped the price of the Take 5 system to $599...though if the other deal is worth having at $699 it would be a substantial savings over having to buy the speakers and receiver separately.

[blackraven]

Go with the Energy Take 5 system over that yamaha system and don't look back. Stick with a company that primarily makes speakers. For a budget system the Take 5 looks great and has gotten very good reviews.

[StevenSurprenant]

If the TV has good sound and if the analog audio outputs on the back of the TV are controlled with the TV's volume control, you can just add a sub to the TV and it should sound spectacular. It won't be surround, but it will give you the excitment that only a sub can do. Besides, there are two reasons for doing it this way...

First, It could give you more money for a better TV and second, if you decide that you prefer a surround system, you haven't lost any money cause you already would have the sub.

HSU and SVS makes good subs for the money.

[Jerminator]

TV is already purchased - delivery is tomorrow. I've found the Take 5 system with the Yamaha 6130 for $830 (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=BDL10002761&catid=#). I will try to talk them up to the 6140, but either way, I think my parents will be happy...I hope!