Cerwin Vega CVHD-12S Subwoofer Trouble

[tridy]

Hello.
I have recently purchased the Cerwin Vega CVHD 5.1 systems and I was trying to set it up together with my Onkyo 606 AV Receiver. The problem is I never managed the subwoofer to work.

So, I have CVHD-12S powered subwoofer that has:
1) HI-LEVEL INPUT L+R connectors + and -
2) HI-LEVEL OUTPUT L+R connectors + and -
3) LINE IN (for RCA jacks)
4) VOLUME control
5) LOW-PASS FREQ control
6) 0/180 PHASE switch
7) STANDBY indicator red/green

here is the picture of the connection (click to enlarge):

http://i36.tinypic.com/357qe5d_th.jpg (http://i36.tinypic.com/357qe5d.jpg)

after it did not work with the a/v receiver, I tried to test just the subwoofer. What I did was I connected my MP3 player to the LINE IN and that, as far as I understand should make the subwoofer produce the base sounds. Which it did not.

After that I tried to connect 2 speakers to the HI-LEVEL OUTPUT and it should have sent the sound to the speakers and subwoofer but none of them produce any sound.

The STANDBY indicator shows green, meaning that the sound goes in properly.

I tested all the cables and they are alright. Again, all 5 speakers work perfectly from the AV Receiver but, as soon as I connect them to the subwoofer, nothing happens.

As far as I understand, connecting the MP3 player to the LINE IN should make it produce the base already which is not happening. Am I right? Do I know for sure that this is the faulty subwoofer?

Thanks for your help

[audio amateur]

You can't use the speaker outputs on the subwoofer if you're not using the speaker inputs on the subwoofer aswell. The sub should work fine if you simply use the line-in with your mp3 player as you have done here, only disconnect those speaker cables. If not there's a problem.

[tridy]

Thanks for the reply. I see your point.

So, if I connect my MP3 player to the line in and it does not produce any sound, I can say for sure that the sub does not work. Like this:

http://i33.tinypic.com/2lto87k_th.jpg (http://i33.tinypic.com/2lto87k.jpg)

Ok, going to the service tomorrow.

But damn, I don't have a car and this thing is heavy. Why God why? Why does it have to be me. What a weekend.

[audio amateur]

Yeah. Sorry bout that. Just make sure you have the volume up (on the mp3 player aswell). Perhaps get a friend to drive you or a taxi?

[tridy]

yes, I paid attention to mp3 player volume as well. But I could not hear any noise, even a slight background noise from the subwoofer at any time.

Thanks for the help. Now, at least, I have determined what the problem is.

[RoadRunner6]

Hold the phone! I think you have your sub hooked up wrong.

Questions. Do you have the 5 speakers hooked up to the A speakers outs? Where are the two speakers wires your photo shows coming into the sub coming from? Maybe the B speakers out?

If this is the case then you may not have any sound from the B speaker outs since this entry level receiver might run A and B in series only.

After we get more info from you and look up your owner's manual we can tell you how to correctly connect your speakers and sub.

[audio amateur]

RR, I think he's connected the mp3 straight to the sub to check if it's working (that's what I've understood)

[tridy]

Ok, the 5 speakers when connected to the receiver worked perfectly but the sub. I tried all sorts of settings from receiver (both audysey and manual setup) but it never produced a single beep - not even a background noise on max volume. So, I decided to go to as simple settings as possible with just MP3 player plugged into LINE IN. Again, no sound. I tried 5.1 movie and 5 channels were working but the sub stayed silent.

As far as I understand, sub must work with MP3 player, so this is what I will start with when I bring the sub back to the store.

[RoadRunner6]

Ok, the 5 speakers when connected to the receiver worked perfectly but the sub. I tried all sorts of settings from receiver (both audysey and manual setup) but it never produced a single beep - not even a background noise on max volume. So, I decided to go to as simple settings as possible with just MP3 player plugged into LINE IN. Again, no sound. I tried 5.1 movie and 5 channels were working but the sub stayed silent.

As far as I understand, sub must work with MP3 player, so this is what I will start with when I bring the sub back to the store.

Sorry, I was in my vehicle and didn't see the second photo. But I would like to know in the first photo where were the speakers wires going to that were hooked up to the high level speakers outs?

Also you say the 5 speakers worked fine, but the sub did not. How exactly did you have the sub hooked up to the receiver when it did not work correctly? By speaker wire or by RCA cable?

Here is the correct way to set up your sub:

Disconnect that MP3 player from the sub.

Hook up one RCA cable from the sub out jack on your receiver to the LFE input jack on the sub (nothing is connected to the L & R input jacks on the sub). The LFE input jack is for connecting the sub to a receiver with a sub out, like the Onkyo 606. In this method the crossover dial on the sub is bypassed. This is excatly what you want because you are setting the crossover for the sub in the receiver and not on the sub.

Go into your speakers advanced setup menu, p. 72. You are manually overriding any settings the receiver might have made in the auto setup (which many times is wrong). Set the subwoofer to "yes" (same as on). Go to each individual speaker (all five) and set them to 150Hz crossover (not "full band"). This setting will send all frequencies from 150Hz and above to the 5 speakers. All frequencies from 150Hz and down plus the LFE special effects bass frequencies will be sent to the sub. Set the LFE low pass filter to 80Hz. Continue and set the speaker volume levels for all 5 speakers plus the sub on about p. 74-75. Set distances, etc.

On the sub: The crossover dial is now bypassed, leave it to the max setting. The volume setting should normally be set to about the 10 o'clock position to start with. Besides the power cord you should only have one single connection to the sub's LFE input, an RCA cable from the Onkyo 606 sub out. Be sure you are using the "pre-out subwoofer" jack on the receiver and not the multi-channel sub input by mistake.

Now play a source and you should get sound from the sub. I understand the sub volume on this CV sub can cut out sometimes. So if you do not get any sound at first then gradually turn up the volume on the sub until it cuts in. If still no volume then you've got a problem.

Note that the CV 5 speakers have a built-in high pass filter at 150Hz. This is very unusual for a speaker and CV recommends setting the crossover on the receiver at 150Hz. This is called "cascading filters" (doubling filters) and is not the best idea but CV has done it this way. Later you can change the filter in the receiver from 150Hz down to 120Hz and see which one sounds better. Having 5 speakers that only play down to 150Hz and the sub taking over from there makes it very easy to localize the sub. Therefore, be sure to place the sub either between the left and right speaker or not any farther left or right than you have to.

Hope this helps.

RR6

[tridy]

RCA cable with this connection was the first thing I tried:


http://i35.tinypic.com/2anvv7_th.jpg (http://i35.tinypic.com/2anvv7.jpg)

and it did not work. I tried all sorts of settings from the setup without any success.

And again, for the sake of testing, why do you think that MP3 player method with LINE IN failed?

thanks for the help

[RoadRunner6]

Looks like you have covered all the angles.

Sorry, I presumed incorrectly after seeing the photo of the high level speaker wires coming out of the output side that maybe you didn't know how to correctly hook it up. BTW, where were they going anyway??? Did you try the left and right speaker connections on the receiver directly to the sub only for a test?

I also read a user review on that sub which indicated a problem or glitch with the auto on volume control. I thought maybe that might have been a contributing factor and that is why I mentioned that in my post. Didn't know if the MP3 would have enough gain to trip the volume.

I also thought you might not be aware of the built-in high pass filter on the CV speakers although that wouldn't have caused this problem.

Only trying to help. I'll be interested to hear what the actual problem is.

RR6

[tridy]

Sorry, I presumed incorrectly after seeing the photo of the high level speaker wires coming out of the output side that maybe you didn't know how to correctly hook it up. BTW, where were they going anyway??? Did you try the left and right speaker connections on the receiver directly to the sub only for a test?

I assumed that the powered subwoofer, when source is connected to LINE IN, will do the output for the 2 speakers. It does not however. I am not really sure why the sub has HI-LEVEL INPUT and HI-LEVEL OUTPUT since then it will work only as a link. And I thought that with the powered subwoofer like that, if you want a 2.1 system, you will not even need the amplifier/receiver. Just plug LINE IN and connect the speakers and you have got 2.1 system. But appears it is not like that. The worst case is that I could not make it work with LFE IN.


I also read a user review on that sub which indicated a problem or glitch with the auto on volume control. I thought maybe that might have been a contributing factor and that is why I mentioned that in my post. Didn't know if the MP3 would have enough gain to trip the volume.

This one is fairly weird actually. I have read the reviews as well and I do not have the switch (On/Off/Auto On). Although It has the green/red indicator that afaik shows green when the signal is coming and the sub is on and red when there is no incoming signal that makes the sub go on standby. In both with the LFE signal from receiver and MP3 connected to LINE IN, I was getting the green light, meaning the subwofer was realizing that the signal is coming in. It is interesting that I have never heard a single noise from the sub, even when I would turn it on or of, plug and unplug LINE IN connection and so on. Max volume would not produce any kind of background noise either.


I also thought you might not be aware of the built-in high pass filter on the CV speakers although that wouldn't have caused this problem.

I did not really investigate it much. I know I tried different settings for the sub when it was connected to the receiver. Tried the Audisey (that did not find the subwofer and I had to add it back manually). Speakers calibration (or one of the setup menues that makes tiny noises in the speakers) did not produce any sound in the sub either (but made the sound in 5 speakers). So, I do not think I need to go that far thinking about high pass filtering which has to do more with the quality rather than the presence of the sound. Am I right?


Only trying to help. I'll be interested to hear what the actual problem is.

I am going to the store today after work to tell them about my problem and that I will bring the subwofer tomorrow after work. The worst thing that could happen would be that in the store they will plug it in to their receiver and it will work. I am hoping this will not happen and I will bring my MP3 player and my RCA cable (I have 2 and I tried both) and then try it there as well. I will post the results here asap.

Thanks a lot for the help.

[audio amateur]

I assumed that the powered subwoofer, when source is connected to LINE IN, will do the output for the 2 speakers. It does not however. I am not really sure why the sub has HI-LEVEL INPUT and HI-LEVEL OUTPUT since then it will work only as a link. And I thought that with the powered subwoofer like that, if you want a 2.1 system, you will not even need the amplifier/receiver. Just plug LINE IN and connect the speakers and you have got 2.1 system. But appears it is not like that. The worst case is that I could not make it work with LFE IN.
This is because the sub has a 'high-pass' filter which filters the bass frequencies from the speakers. It can used in a stereo settup (no surround receiver) or with in a mutli channel setup if there's no filter option in the receiver.


I am going to the store today after work to tell them about my problem and that I will bring the subwofer tomorrow after work. The worst thing that could happen would be that in the store they will plug it in to their receiver and it will work. I am hoping this will not happen and I will bring my MP3 player and my RCA cable (I have 2 and I tried both) and then try it there as well. I will post the results here asap..
This shouldn't happen, you've tried everything

[RoadRunner6]

'.....I am not really sure why the sub has HI-LEVEL INPUT and HI-LEVEL OUTPUT ....."

There are several reasons for the high level speaker connections. A common one is when a person has a stereo receiver or integrated amp and no sub line out. The left and right channel speaker outs are connected to the speaker inputs on the sub. The speaker outs are then continued to the left and right speakers. The crossover is set on the sub. For example, if the crossover is set to 80Hz, then the sub takes all frequencies from 80Hz and down for itself. It then sends all frequencies from 80Hz and up on to the main left and right speakers.

Another situation might be for an older surround receiver with no sub out and two towers and small center and surrounds. The towers are set to large. The center and surrounds are set to small. All bass below the crossover frequency from the center and surrounds are sent to the towers. The sub is hooked up as above and the low bass from the left and right speakers is directed to the sub as the sginal passes thru the sub's crossover circuit and on its way to the left and right speaker..

[tridy]

Today I brought it to the store and they checked it and the sub did not work. So, they have sent it for replacement and I should get it by Saturday. It is good that they do not repair subs but replace them. So far so good. When I will come to pick it up, I will ask them to check it first. I will let you know when I get it home.

[tridy]

I have got the subwoofer back and now it works perfectly. thanks for your help guys.