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Ace H
12-12-2008, 08:33 AM
Which resolution is considered better of the two 1080i or 720p?

GMichael
12-12-2008, 08:46 AM
Which resolution is considered better of the two 1080i or 720p?

The answer is not as simple as the question seems. 1080i has more lines of resolution so should look better. But because of how interlacing works, 1080i only looks better when there is little or no movement. For sports, the 720p looks better for the most part.
Now it gets even stickier if you have a 1080p TV. A 1080i source can be converted to 1080p easier than a 720p source can. So then the 1080i signal would look better than the 720p source would.
So now comes a question. Are you talking source or display?

Woochifer
12-12-2008, 12:55 PM
GM got it right. You will notice more image detail with a good 1080i signal, but 720p definitely holds up better with motion. FWIW, 1080i requires more bandwidth to display.

Ace H
12-12-2008, 01:11 PM
I ask because I have my HDTV hooked up to both Antenna and HD Cable Box. The QAM tuner from the antenna source indicates it's 1080i but the source from the HD Cable Box displays at 720p. The 1080i does appear to be a bit more crisp, sharp and clear. I knew that 1080p is supposed to be the best pictue (for now) so I was just trying to figure out if the progressive signal of the 720 would "trump" the interlace signal of the 1080?

Woochifer
12-12-2008, 01:16 PM
I ask because I have my HDTV hooked up to both Antenna and HD Cable Box. The QAM tuner from the antenna source indicates it's 1080i but the source from the HD Cable Box displays at 720p. The 1080i does appear to be a bit more crisp, sharp and clear. I knew that 1080p is supposed to be the best pictue (for now) so I was just trying to figure out if the progressive signal of the 720 would "trump" the interlace signal of the 1080?

On that particular channel, the 1080i source SHOULD look better simply because the antenna gives you the original signal at the original resolution. Your cable box signal is a retransmission that might have gotten compressed or otherwise modified in the process.

Are all sources using the HD cable box getting sent out in 720p? If so, you'll need to check you box setup and make sure that it is setup to output 1080i signals in their native format. If it's not a setup issue, then your cable company is downconverting the signal to 720p to conserve on bandwidth -- not a good idea. All satellite and cable services will compress the video signals on their systems, but I thought thatmost of the time they will transmit the signal in the original resolution.

GMichael
12-12-2008, 01:16 PM
Hmmm... Interesting. So maybe they are broadcasting 1080i via the air but 720p by cable to save bandwidth?

GMichael
12-12-2008, 01:18 PM
On that particular channel, the 1080i source SHOULD look better simply because the antenna gives you the original signal at the original resolution. Your cable box signal is a retransmission that might have gotten compressed or otherwise modified in the process.

Are all sources using the HD cable box getting sent out in 720p? If so, you'll need to check you box setup and make sure that it is setup to output 1080i signals in their native format. If it's not a setup issue, then your cable company is downconverting the signal to 720p to conserve on bandwidth -- not a good idea. All satellite and cable services will compress the video signals on their systems, but most of the time they will maintain the signal in the original resolution.

Ahhh...
I didn't think of that.

pixelthis
12-12-2008, 01:57 PM
Is a moot point really, because most sets sold these days are either 1080p or 720p.
1080I AS A DISPLAY is just about out the door, even tho its still an exelent
broadcast medium, since its so easy to deinterlace to 1080p.
Get a 1080p, stay ahead of the curve.:1:

Ace H
12-12-2008, 07:29 PM
So far I see that all the HD channels coming from the HD box are in 720p. My HD box is a Motorola DCH3200. I downloaded the manual for this box from Motorola's website and discovered something interesting. The manual has a section called "OPTIMIZING YOUR DCH RECEIVER FOR HIGH-DEFINITION TV". This allows you to get into the box's settings example:
User Setting Status - TV Type: 16:9, YPbPr OUTPUT 1080i, 4:3 Override 480i
This setting seems to be geared to the Component Video but I'm using HDMI. Later I well hook up some Component Video and see if I get the 1080i as indicated. I'll keep this thread posted as to the outcome when I do.

Jack in Wilmington
12-12-2008, 07:42 PM
I don't see 720p on my set anywhere. How do you get 720p? I get 480i on my SD signals and 1080i when I go to the HD channels. I have verizon, maybe they don't broadcast in 720p anymore.

Ace H
12-12-2008, 07:42 PM
I have Cox Communications as my provider.

Ace H
12-12-2008, 08:05 PM
Just did the component video hookup and all signals via HD Box are still 720p.

hermanv
12-13-2008, 02:18 AM
GM got it right. You will notice more image detail with a good 1080i signal, but 720p definitely holds up better with motion. FWIW, 1080i requires more bandwidth to display.
Now I'm confused, since 1080i requires two passes to complete a picture, the update data rate is equivalent to 540p. No? So I think 720p requires a greater bandwidth than 1080i because the entire screen is updated twice as often. By the end of two screens 1080 pixels have been sent for 1080i, but during the same time interval I think 1440 pixels have been sent for 720p.

I have insomnia, it's early in the AM and I could easily have forgotten to turn off the stupid gene.

'Course all this is moot since mostly it's sent as Mpeg 4 and the actual data rate varies enormously with picture content.

pixelthis
12-13-2008, 04:25 PM
Now I'm confused, since 1080i requires two passes to complete a picture, the update data rate is equivalent to 540p. No? So I think 720p requires a greater bandwidth than 1080i because the entire screen is updated twice as often. By the end of two screens 1080 pixels have been sent for 1080i, but during the same time interval I think 1440 pixels have been sent for 720p.

I have insomnia, it's early in the AM and I could easily have forgotten to turn off the stupid gene.

'Course all this is moot since mostly it's sent as Mpeg 4 and the actual data rate varies enormously with picture content.

This is what I HAVE BEEN trying to explain for the longest time on this board, and its why 720p is inherently better than 1080i.
When theres movement the resolution breaks down and sometimes you dont get 600 lines of res.
However with 1080p 1080i is deinterlaced and you get a spectacular picture, 1920 x 1080.:1:

pixelthis
12-13-2008, 04:30 PM
So far I see that all the HD channels coming from the HD box are in 720p. My HD box is a Motorola DCH3200. I downloaded the manual for this box from Motorola's website and discovered something interesting. The manual has a section called "OPTIMIZING YOUR DCH RECEIVER FOR HIGH-DEFINITION TV". This allows you to get into the box's settings example:
User Setting Status - TV Type: 16:9, YPbPr OUTPUT 1080i, 4:3 Override 480i
This setting seems to be geared to the Component Video but I'm using HDMI. Later I well hook up some Component Video and see if I get the 1080i as indicated. I'll keep this thread posted as to the outcome when I do.


On Motorola boxes you turn the power off, then hit the menu button.
The configuration screen comes up and you have choice of several different options.
720P if you have a 720p set, if the deinterlacer in your TV is better choose the 480i
on the 480 override option, if not choose 480p.
CHOOSE SOMETHING THAT TAKES THE PIC OFF, AND YOU CAN USE THE FRONT DISPLAY TO GET IT BACK.
Good luck.:1:

Ace H
12-13-2008, 07:07 PM
"CHOOSE SOMETHING THAT TAKES THE PIC OFF, AND YOU CAN USE THE FRONT DISPLAY TO GET IT BACK."

pixelthis,
I don't quite follow what you mean with the above.

Woochifer
12-13-2008, 08:18 PM
Now I'm confused, since 1080i requires two passes to complete a picture, the update data rate is equivalent to 540p. No? So I think 720p requires a greater bandwidth than 1080i because the entire screen is updated twice as often. By the end of two screens 1080 pixels have been sent for 1080i, but during the same time interval I think 1440 pixels have been sent for 720p.

You forgot to account for the smaller number of pixels per frame on a 720p image. 1080i is rendering a 1,920 x 1,080 pixel map at a frame rate of 30 frames/sec, while 720p renders a 1,280 x 720 pixel map at a frame rate of 60 frames/sec. Do the math, 1080i gives you a pixel rate of approximately 62.2 million pixels/sec, while 720p gives you 55.3 million pixels/sec.

In addition, all things being equal, both the MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 codecs compress progressive video more efficiently than interlaced. More data + less efficiency = greater bandwidth

Because of this, 1080i requires a higher bandwidth, but whether or not that equates to a "better" picture is debatable. On my TV, I can see that 720p sources have less image detail (could also be a byproduct of the rescaling needed on a 1080p TV), but I can also see that it has smoother motion on the backgrounds than 1080i.

Woochifer
12-13-2008, 08:31 PM
Just did the component video hookup and all signals via HD Box are still 720p.

Yep, sounds like your cable provider is downconverting all its HD/DTV content to 720p. If you want to maximize your picture quality, you'll need to stick with the OTA signal, since that has not gone through any rescaling or other format conversion.

Unfortunately, cable and satellite companies alike do stuff like this to save on bandwidth. I use Directv, and while the HDTV signals on that service are maintained in their original resolution, they are also all converted to MPEG-4. For any channels that don't originate in MPEG-4 (I read that HBO and Showtime transmit in MPEG-4, but not too many other channels have followed suit), Directv has to do a real-time format conversion. Then again, Directv's older MPEG-2 HD service increased the signal compression in order to save on bandwidth.

Smokey
12-13-2008, 09:17 PM
This is what I HAVE BEEN trying to explain for the longest time on this board, and its why 720p is inherently better than 1080i.

Pix

720p is not inherently better than 1080i. It just show smother picture on high motion scenes albiet lower resolution than 1080i. Also as Wooch mentioned, 720p uses less bandwidth than 1080i.

pixelthis
12-14-2008, 04:54 PM
"CHOOSE SOMETHING THAT TAKES THE PIC OFF, AND YOU CAN USE THE FRONT DISPLAY TO GET IT BACK."

pixelthis,
I don't quite follow what you mean with the above.


When you are trying to set this up there is a config screen, which you manuver through with the up-down left-right buttons.
Hit a wrong choice and your pic might go off, but the info is still on the front display, which will help you get back to a config your set will display.
THERE ARE SEVERAL CHOICES on this display , 16:9 or 4:3, 480i override choice, etc.
Stay away from HDMI submenu, that could mess you up.
You will understand what I am talking about when you get to the menu.:1:

Ace H
12-15-2008, 05:28 AM
Thanks for the additional info.

Sir Terrence the Terrible
12-15-2008, 12:09 PM
This is freakin rediculous. Pix you need to shout the hell up. It does not matter if it takes two fields to paint 1080i, you cannot SEE the painting in action, so to the eyes(you must take visual perception into consideration, not just the numbers or the process) its all one process. Our eyes perceive one pass, or the two fields combined second by second, and even half second by half second, so the interlacing process is transparent to the eyes. No matter how you slice it, there is more information in a 1080i signal than in a 720p signal progressive. 1080i is better for movies, and 720p is better for sports. That is why channels that mainly show movies have picked 1080i, and the sports channels choose 720p, There is another reality here, any advantage 720p has with motion is also negated be the panels performance dealing with motion blur and panel lag.

Pix, please spare us your 480i experience trying to paste over a 1080i reality.

pixelthis
12-15-2008, 10:53 PM
This is freakin rediculous. Pix you need to shout the hell up. It does not matter if it takes two fields to paint 1080i, you cannot SEE the painting in action, so to the eyes(you must take visual perception into consideration, not just the numbers or the process) its all one process. Our eyes perceive one pass, or the two fields combined second by second, and even half second by half second, so the interlacing process is transparent to the eyes. No matter how you slice it, there is more information in a 1080i signal than in a 720p signal progressive. 1080i is better for movies, and 720p is better for sports. That is why channels that mainly show movies have picked 1080i, and the sports channels choose 720p, There is another reality here, any advantage 720p has with motion is also negated be the panels performance dealing with motion blur and panel lag.

Pix, please spare us your 480i experience trying to paste over a 1080i reality.


There is more info in a 1080i pic, but its not on the screen at the same time.
AND when theres movement it all falls apart.
With a 1080P pic you get a full 1,080 lines AT ONE TIME.
The advantage in "sports" you talk about is the fact that theres a lot of movement in sports, so you dont lose half the res everytime the pitcher spits.
Funny how the field changes with you, a LCD with a 5ms response time has "motion
blur" even though it refreshes much faster than the eye can discern, but the eye cant
discern two fields being interleved to create one frame.
Make up your mind, which is it nimrod?:1:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
12-17-2008, 06:01 PM
There is more info in a 1080i pic, but its not on the screen at the same time.
AND when theres movement it all falls apart.
With a 1080P pic you get a full 1,080 lines AT ONE TIME.
The advantage in "sports" you talk about is the fact that theres a lot of movement in sports, so you dont lose half the res everytime the pitcher spits.
Funny how the field changes with you, a LCD with a 5ms response time has "motion
blur" even though it refreshes much faster than the eye can discern, but the eye cant
discern two fields being interleved to create one frame.
Make up your mind, which is it nimrod?:1:

You are lying again pixel. You cannot see the effect of the double field painting, it looks like a single field to the eyes because it refreshes faster than we can see. On CRT's during motion there is less loss during movement than there is on your average progressive panel. Your cheap ass 42" vizio resolution drops down to 330p during motion, which is far more loss than a CRT has.

5ms is not faster than the eye can see, or you would not experience any motion blur. Two fields painted at 30 times a second is invisible to the eye as it is much faster than 5ms. Get your fact straight stupid ass.

bobsticks
12-17-2008, 06:25 PM
It's been too long since we've had one of these punch-in-the-face contests.

Really.

pixelthis
12-18-2008, 12:23 AM
[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]You are lying again pixel. You cannot see the effect of the double field painting, it looks like a single field to the eyes because it refreshes faster than we can see. On CRT's during motion there is less loss during movement than there is on your average progressive panel. Your cheap ass 42" vizio resolution drops down to 330p during motion, which is far more loss than a CRT has.

5ms is not faster than the eye can see, or you would not experience any motion blur. Two fields painted at 30 times a second is invisible to the eye as it is much faster than 5ms. Get your fact straight stupid ass.


I HAVE MY "FACTS" STRAIGHT, you old fart, just dont complain because you cant understand them.:1:

pixelthis
12-18-2008, 03:17 PM
You are lying again pixel. You cannot see the effect of the double field painting, it looks like a single field to the eyes because it refreshes faster than we can see. On CRT's during motion there is less loss during movement than there is on your average progressive panel. Your cheap ass 42" vizio resolution drops down to 330p during motion, which is far more loss than a CRT has.

5ms is not faster than the eye can see, or you would not experience any motion blur. Two fields painted at 30 times a second is invisible to the eye as it is much faster than 5ms. Get your fact straight stupid ass.

Typical talky.
People arent misinformed, they arelying
Where are you from, Bulgaria?
You are the "liar" , my Vizio does NOT lose res when theres movement or any other
time, its a PROGRESSIVE SCAN device, and that trait is limited to interlaced devices.
5 MS is 5 millionth of a second, dimbulb, if you can discern a screen refreshing at that rate you need to be in professinal sports, instead of the "liars" club.:1:

Woochifer
12-18-2008, 05:26 PM
You are the "liar" , my Vizio does NOT lose res when theres movement or any other time, its a PROGRESSIVE SCAN device, and that trait is limited to interlaced devices.

Motion resolution measurements (Gary Gerson/HD Guru)

Vizio 1080p LCD VO47LF = 330 lines = sub-SD resolution :yikes:
Vizio 1080p LCD VO42LFHDTV10 = 340 lines = sub-SD resolution :yikes:
Vizio 1080p LCD GV42LFHDTV10A=340 lines = sub-SD resolution :yikes:

Average measured motion resolution on 1080p plasma HDTVs (2008 models) = >800 lines = HD resolution :cool:

:1: = liar
:lol: :lol: :lol: = laughing AT you, not WITH you

P.S. ms = millisecond = 1/1000th of a second
:1: = off by a factor of 1,000 is an improvement!

bobsticks
12-18-2008, 07:21 PM
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but, pix, have you considered an eye exam? You seem so sure of yourself but the numbers don't seem to bear it out.

I'm just sayin'...

Woochifer
12-18-2008, 07:32 PM
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but, pix, have you considered an eye exam? You seem so sure of yourself but the numbers don't seem to bear it out.

I'm just sayin'...

Oh, he needs an exam alright ... but I don't think eyesight's his issue! :cool:

pixelthis
12-19-2008, 01:21 PM
Motion resolution measurements (Gary Gerson/HD Guru)




Vizio 1080p LCD VO47LF = 330 lines = sub-SD resolution :yikes: Vizio 1080p LCD VO42LFHDTV10 = 340 lines = sub-SD resolution :yikes: Vizio 1080p LCD GV42LFHDTV10A=340 lines = sub-SD resolution :yikes:

(made up horse s**t)



Average measured motion resolution on 1080p plasma HDTVs (2008 models) = >800 lines = HD resolution :cool:

More made up garbage

:1: = liar

:lol: :lol: :lol: = laughing AT you, not WITH you

Well, I wouldnt laugh at you, mama told me not to laugh at slow people

P.S. ms = millisecond = 1/1000th of a second
:1: = off by a factor of 1,000 is an improvement!




If you got anything right it would be an "improvement".
You can make up any crap you want, being an offical govt liar it probably IS easy for you.
I dont know about any Vizios you have seen, but mine is a full 1080p

You cant post numbers from one site without confirmation.
Truth is you dont know what you're talking about.
Truth is I have seen 300 lines of res, and I know what it looks like.
AND I have seen a fool and a liar, and I KNOW WHAT ONE OF THOSE
LOOKS LIKE.:1:

pixelthis
12-19-2008, 01:27 PM
YOU need to provide a link for "gary gerson" since google cant find him.
If indeed he does exist.:1:

pixelthis
12-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Ah yes, thats gary merson
As usual wooch got it wrong.
If you want to just read mersons site, it is basically where wooch gets all of his material,
its basically a slam at what mr merson calls "tier three" brands, which includes vizio.
Couldnt find any of the measurements wooch was talking about, but I did find one interesting fact.
Mr MERSON IS IN RETAIL
He is not a technical person at all!
Now there might be some specs buried somewhere but I COULDNT FIND EM.
So a linky or you stinky wooch.
And dont think that just because merson writes for for a rag like sound and visionthat he impresses me at all:1:

pixelthis
12-19-2008, 01:46 PM
Figures wooch would use a non tech website for tech quotes.
ANY techie knows that its difficult to measure res on a moving picture
(res charts are still frame):1:

Woochifer
12-19-2008, 04:38 PM
If you got anything right it would be an "improvement".
You can make up any crap you want, being an offical govt liar it probably IS easy for you.
I dont know about any Vizios you have seen, but mine is a full 1080p

Only with a still image do you see 1080p! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Moving images are sub-SD, but you wouldn't know given that your eyes are so used to that 20-year old battery powered LCD TV that you so fondly speak of! :cool:


You cant post numbers from one site without confirmation.
Truth is you dont know what you're talking about.
Truth is I have seen 300 lines of res, and I know what it looks like.
AND I have seen a fool and a liar, and I KNOW WHAT ONE OF THOSE
LOOKS LIKE.:1:

:out:


Ah yes, thats gary merson
As usual wooch got it wrong.
If you want to just read mersons site, it is basically where wooch gets all of his material,
its basically a slam at what mr merson calls "tier three" brands, which includes vizio.
Couldnt find any of the measurements wooch was talking about, but I did find one interesting fact.

Yup, and your spelling is PERFECT, right? :lol: All of the information that Merson provides about "tier three" brands is factual because it comes DIRECTLY from representatives of those companies, including the warranty and repair policies, and spare parts availability, which should concern anyone looking to buy one of these cheapie TVs. Your willingness to overlook that fact to save a few bucks is more of the dishonesty that everyone expects from you.

You should actually be thankful that Merson wrote those articles last year, because Vizio's warranty policies were even worse back then (i.e., no on-site service, $300 charge just for a replacement container, customer pays for two-way shipping, TVs typically replaced with refurbs rather than repaired, etc.). It was only after those practices were exposed that Vizio made some changes to their warranty policies (i.e., they now have in-house service on some repairs, and only charge customers for one way shipping -- how charitable of them!) and finally made spare parts for their current models available to local repair shops.

But, even so, their warranty practices remain way behind what consumers get with the major brands, most of whom include on-site service for all warranty calls on big screen HDTVs, and maintain national networks of factory repair centers and authorized spare parts distributors for out-of-warranty repairs. Like everything else that they do, Vizio's warranty service and spare parts distribution is outsourced.

Geez, can't you find ANYTHING on your own or do I have to bail you out all the time?

http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2008-resolution-tests-125-hdtvs.pdf


Mr MERSON IS IN RETAIL
He is not a technical person at all!
Now there might be some specs buried somewhere but I COULDNT FIND EM.
So a linky or you stinky wooch.
And dont think that just because merson writes for for a rag like sound and visionthat he impresses me at all

Right, and your credentials as a hospital rent-a-cop and citation of some article about plasma TVs manufactured 10 years ago are oh-so-technical! :rolleyes: Still recommending that people run their HDTVs with the torch settings in the stretch mode? :lol:

I don't expect you to be impressed by Merson's credentials, given that facts don't seem to register with you either.


Figures wooch would use a non tech website for tech quotes.
ANY techie knows that its difficult to measure res on a moving picture
(res charts are still frame)

And denial of reality doesn't prove its nonexistence. :out:

pixelthis
12-19-2008, 08:18 PM
This merson site is nothing more than Panny propaganda, its even trimmed out with
panny blue!
All it talks about is how great panasonic is and how other stuff sucks, spam basically.
I saw a similar panny propaganda site a few years ago, this isnt the first time they
have done this.
People were posting video reviews of their own gear.
After watching two or three I realized that they were all reviewing panny products!
No I dont have any respect for merson, or anybody else who has sold out and become
a whore.
At least they could admit they are hawking Panasonic but they arent even that honest.
Figures that wooch would fall for this nonsense.
To state that any 1080p set is only 330 lines of res shows how far they are bending facts.
They must have a huge amount invested in that plasma factory to be propagandizing
this badly. This whole site is nothing but a cleverly disguised PANASONIC ADVERTISMENT.
Well, not that clever, they could have decorated it with something other than classic panny blue:1:

pixelthis
12-19-2008, 08:34 PM
Only with a still image do you see 1080p! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Moving images are sub-SD, but you wouldn't know given that your eyes are so used to that 20-year old battery powered LCD TV that you so fondly speak of! :cool:

AND your intellect is sub-nutless monkey


:out:




Yup, and your spelling is PERFECT, right? :lol: All of the information that Merson provides about "tier three" brands is factual because it comes DIRECTLY from representatives of those companies, including the warranty and repair policies, and spare parts availability, which should concern anyone looking to buy one of these cheapie TVs. Your willingness to overlook that fact to save a few bucks is more of the dishonesty that everyone expects from you.

THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF "three tiers" of anything comes from this site, I have seen this nowhere else.
Do you think a manufacturer would claim that his product is third anything?
They also conviently forget that Vizio is the number one seller



You should actually be thankful that Merson wrote those articles last year, because Vizio's warranty policies were even worse back then (i.e., no on-site service, $300 charge just for a replacement container, customer pays for two-way shipping, TVs typically replaced with refurbs rather than repaired, etc.). It was only after those practices were exposed that Vizio made some changes to their warranty policies (i.e., they now have in-house service on some repairs, and only charge customers for one way shipping -- how charitable of them!) and finally made spare parts for their current models available to local repair shops.

Couldnt tell you about Vizios repairs policy, because of the five I know of none have broke.



But, even so, their warranty practices remain way behind what consumers get with the major brands, most of whom include on-site service for all warranty calls on big screen HDTVs, and maintain national networks of factory repair centers and authorized spare parts distributors for out-of-warranty repairs. Like everything else that they do, Vizio's warranty service and spare parts distribution is outsourced.

Vizio is a young company, of course their service is outsourced, they dont have several hundred million to build their own service centers.
Nothing unusual in what that do, its common practice



Geez, can't you find ANYTHING on your own or do I have to bail you out all the time?

If yopu had spelled the name right that would help.
Or did you even want anybody scutinizing this source of blatant propaganda?
Figures you would like such a site





[QUOTE]Right, and your credentials as a hospital rent-a-cop and citation of some article about plasma TVs manufactured 10 years ago are oh-so-technical! :rolleyes: Still recommending that people run their HDTVs with the torch settings in the stretch mode? :lol:

My three years of electronics training has faded a bit, but I HAVE KEPT UP TO DATE WITH a great deal.
IN any event I have forgotten more than you will ever know.
And my "rent a cop status" is because I am retired, I spent 15 years as a police officer
and have learned to spot a liar from a mile off.



I don't expect you to be impressed by Merson's credentials, given that facts don't seem to register with you either.

FACTS from objective sources impress me, propaganda from a corporate shill site
less so, fits that they would impress a ninny such as yourself.



And denial of reality doesn't prove its nonexistence. :out:


WHAAAA????:OUT:
:1:

bobsticks
12-19-2008, 09:09 PM
.



.
Who's "yopu"?

4766

Woochifer
12-20-2008, 10:38 AM
This merson site is nothing more than Panny propaganda, its even trimmed out with
panny blue!
All it talks about is how great panasonic is and how other stuff sucks, spam basically.
I saw a similar panny propaganda site a few years ago, this isnt the first time they
have done this.
People were posting video reviews of their own gear.
After watching two or three I realized that they were all reviewing panny products!
No I dont have any respect for merson, or anybody else who has sold out and become
a whore.
At least they could admit they are hawking Panasonic but they arent even that honest.
Figures that wooch would fall for this nonsense.
To state that any 1080p set is only 330 lines of res shows how far they are bending facts.
They must have a huge amount invested in that plasma factory to be propagandizing
this badly. This whole site is nothing but a cleverly disguised PANASONIC ADVERTISMENT.
Well, not that clever, they could have decorated it with something other than classic panny blue:1:

Lay off whatever homemade stuff you've been drinking, you're really losin' it (that is, of course presuming that you ever had it in the first place!)! :crazy:

So, ANY website using blue colors is now Panasonic propaganda? (I guess you'd better stop posting at Audioreview, since OMG the backgrounds are BLUE!!!!! By posting on this site, you're CONTRIBUTING to Panasonic's global takeover!!!!! :yikes: Obviously, your paranoia has cut down that limited reading comprehension of yours to the point you can't even see words anymore ... you see blue so the propagandists are out to get you!!!!!! :out:

Since you obviously didn't bother to read any of the content that I linked to, I'll ask you yet again ... how can Merson's site be a propaganda arm of Panasonic if his recommended TVs include models from Samsung, Sony, Pioneer, and Toshiba, among others? And if he's such a Panny shill, how come his benchmark measurements include 125 models, and show the Pioneer plasmas with better motion resolution measurements and passing scores on the 2:3 pulldown test (which BTW, the Panasonics fail)? Don't strain yourself too much, that would require that you actually read WORDS and not just obsess about COLOR conspiracies! :out:

Woochifer
12-20-2008, 11:20 AM
AND your intellect is sub-nutless monkey

I take it that you finally figured out that 1080p resolution on a still image is not the same as 330 motion resolution, congratulations! :cool:


THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF "three tiers" of anything comes from this site, I have seen this nowhere else.
Do you think a manufacturer would claim that his product is third anything?

There are many ways of referring to off-brand TVs, and Vizio's business model has more in common with the likes of Polaroid, Westinghouse, and Apex than Samsung, Sony, or Panasonic. I'm sure that the major brand companies would readily refer to an off-brand company like Vizio as third-something -- third tier, third rate, whatever.


They also conviently forget that Vizio is the number one seller

Try reading something from 2008 for a change. You seem to have trouble matching your info with the date on the calendar. Vizio lost that lead over a year ago, and only held it for one quarter to begin with. Since then, Samsung and Sony have been battling it out for #1, while Vizio is now struggling to hold off Sharp for the #3 position. :14:


Couldnt tell you about Vizios repairs policy, because of the five I know of none have broke.

Try reading the warranty that came with your TV (which is where most of Merson's information came from), or are you incapable of comprehending anything until it's more than 10 years old? :skep:


Vizio is a young company, of course their service is outsourced, they dont have several hundred million to build their own service centers.

Just the hundreds of millions in profits that they have already pocketed, because they don't make investments in anything other than marketing.


Nothing unusual in what that do, its common practice

Yep, their practices still have more in common with other off-brand companies looking to make a quick buck like Dynex, Polaroid, Westinghouse, and Apex. Vizio didn't even make spare parts available to repair shops until last summer, and even then that doesn't cover their older models. Nothing in common with Samsung, Pioneer, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. who invested in service centers and authorized spare parts distribution from the very beginning.


If yopu had spelled the name right that would help.
Or did you even want anybody scutinizing this source of blatant propaganda?
Figures you would like such a site

Like I said, your spelling is SOOOOOOO perfect Mr. "yopu"! If the facts aren't on your side, attack the messenger -- typical pix. :rolleyes:


WHAAAA????:OUT:
:1:

Figures you still can't get past the denial stage. You kept clinging to the hope that my info actually was made up and when I provide the link to the benchmark test info that you challenged me to provide, this is all you can say! :out:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but, pix, have you considered an eye exam? You seem so sure of yourself but the numbers don't seem to bear it out.

I'm just sayin'...

Its called denial. Vizio are to his eyes perfect. That Is why I have always said he doesn't know quality if it came and bit him on his noglas. He wants us to believe he picked the best there is, but he ain't foolin nobody.

pixelthis
01-07-2009, 01:02 AM
Its called denial. Vizio are to his eyes perfect. That Is why I have always said he doesn't know quality if it came and bit him on his noglas. He wants us to believe he picked the best there is, but he ain't foolin nobody.


Its the best for the price.
Sometimes you have to compromise.
You will understand this when you graduate from high school and start buying real
equipment instead of just making up "dream" stuff for websites like this.:1:

pixelthis
01-07-2009, 01:08 AM
I take it that you finally figured out that 1080p resolution on a still image is not the same as 330 motion resolution, congratulations! :cool:



There are many ways of referring to off-brand TVs, and Vizio's business model has more in common with the likes of Polaroid, Westinghouse, and Apex than Samsung, Sony, or Panasonic. I'm sure that the major brand companies would readily refer to an off-brand company like Vizio as third-something -- third tier, third rate, whatever.



Try reading something from 2008 for a change. You seem to have trouble matching your info with the date on the calendar. Vizio lost that lead over a year ago, and only held it for one quarter to begin with. Since then, Samsung and Sony have been battling it out for #1, while Vizio is now struggling to hold off Sharp for the #3 position. :14:



Try reading the warranty that came with your TV (which is where most of Merson's information came from), or are you incapable of comprehending anything until it's more than 10 years old? :skep:



Just the hundreds of millions in profits that they have already pocketed, because they don't make investments in anything other than marketing.



Yep, their practices still have more in common with other off-brand companies looking to make a quick buck like Dynex, Polaroid, Westinghouse, and Apex. Vizio didn't even make spare parts available to repair shops until last summer, and even then that doesn't cover their older models. Nothing in common with Samsung, Pioneer, Sony, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc. who invested in service centers and authorized spare parts distribution from the very beginning.



Like I said, your spelling is SOOOOOOO perfect Mr. "yopu"! If the facts aren't on your side, attack the messenger -- typical pix. :rolleyes:



Figures you still can't get past the denial stage. You kept clinging to the hope that my info actually was made up and when I provide the link to the benchmark test info that you challenged me to provide, this is all you can say! :out:


Try providing some "benchmark" info that ISNT from a propaganda website hosted by a company that just opened a new plasma factory.
Either you are too stupid to understand a lie when you see one or you are one of the liars.
I go with the second option.:1:

thekid
01-07-2009, 02:51 AM
So much for that Peace on Earth and Goodwill to All we were hearing so much about a couple of weeks ago...... I guess I can now officailly throw out my X-mas cards.......... :)

Rich-n-Texas
01-07-2009, 08:02 AM
A couple of FYI's... My niece has had her Apex TV for seven years, and even though I tried to discourage her, she went and bought a Polariod 720p LCD TV after giving her Apex to her mother. I actually recommended that she buy a Vizio, but the low low price for the Polaroid was too atractive for her to pass up I guess...

Woochifer
01-07-2009, 10:15 AM
Try providing some "benchmark" info that ISNT from a propaganda website hosted by a company that just opened a new plasma factory.
Either you are too stupid to understand a lie when you see one or you are one of the liars.
I go with the second option.:1:

Buying a banner ad is not the same thing as hosting a site, or are you just ignoring that fact so you can keep your inane color conspiracy tirade going? :out:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Try providing some "benchmark" info that ISNT from a propaganda website hosted by a company that just opened a new plasma factory.
Either you are too stupid to understand a lie when you see one or you are one of the liars.
I go with the second option.:1:

There isn't any point to this, any information provided will just be dismissed as propaganda. Merson was not the only person to conduct those tests, The Hollywood Digital technical faclility did the same test. Same results. Now this is an independent testing facility, are you going to accuse them of bias as well?

GMichael
01-07-2009, 10:36 AM
I know what is going on here. You guys like to bang your heads together like this because it feels so good when you stop, right?

pixelthis
01-07-2009, 11:05 PM
A couple of FYI's... My niece has had her Apex TV for seven years, and even though I tried to discourage her, she went and bought a Polariod 720p LCD TV after giving her Apex to her mother. I actually recommended that she buy a Vizio, but the low low price for the Polaroid was too atractive for her to pass up I guess...

a FRIEND HAS A APEX in a bedroom that is still going strong after 10 years.
Why wooch thinks comparing a Vizio to this brand is a slam is beyond me.
BUT MOST OF THE INANE nonsense he spouts is beyond me.:1:

bobsticks
01-08-2009, 07:14 AM
a FRIEND HAS A APEX in a bedroom that is still going strong after 10 years.
Why wooch thinks comparing a Vizio to this brand is a slam is beyond me.
BUT MOST OF THE INANE nonsense he spouts is beyond me.:1:

I would imagine that your friend is the exception to the rule and is fortunate. Apex is also a company that didn't make replacement parts for its products yet, perplexingly, offered warranties. Didn't thay have something like 40 million dvd players die over a couple of years? My understanding is that's one of the reasons why the CEO is in jail...in China.

Perhaps not a business model that works for everyone.

Woochifer
01-08-2009, 12:12 PM
I would imagine that your friend is the exception to the rule and is fortunate. Apex is also a company that didn't make replacement parts for its products yet, perplexingly, offered warranties. Didn't thay have something like 40 million dvd players die over a couple of years? My understanding is that's one of the reasons why the CEO is in jail...in China.

Perhaps not a business model that works for everyone.

The disposable TV business model works if the objective is to quickly move a large volume of TVs, and sell them for cheap without regard to aftersales support or customer loyalty.

Apex and Vizio are kindred spirits because both companies' primary function is marketing. Neither company manufactures anything, does much R&D, or even handle customer service calls. Everything is outsourced. Vizio is a billion dollar company with less than 100 employees. Apex WAS a billion dollar company with less than 100 employees.

Apex didn't make replacement parts available because all of their production runs were one-off contracts. Once the outsource manufacturer produced the specified quantity of TVs or DVD players, that was it. No continuity from one production run to another. Many of those outsource plants were fly-by-night operations that ramped up for large production runs, and then promptly dismantled the assembly line once they completed the run. (I once read that after the price points fell through the floor back in 2003, over 100 Chinese DVD player plants closed up shop) Apex never even issued service manuals, so even if somebody wanted to repair an Apex product, the repair shops had no schematics or parts lists to go off of.

Apex's former CEO is in a Chinese jail because of fraud and nonpayment to one of his many outsource vendors.

Vizio operates very similarly in that they contract for one-off production runs and might use a completely different design and manufacturer from one year's model to the next. Vizio didn't hire anyone to setup authorized repair centers or even make spare parts available on their TVs until July 2007 (which is also when they lost their lead in HDTV sales), and those parts inventories only covered their most recent models. Until Vizio hired somebody to handle the repairs and spare parts distribution, their warranty service was pretty much identical to Apex's coverage -- ship the TV back to the company on your own dime, and if it cannot be repaired, a refurb gets shipped to you (again, you pay the shipping charges).

Polaroid, Westinghouse, and even Best Buy's in-house Insignia brand are all similar in that they too are off-brand TVs with no spare parts distribution.

This is quite different from Samsung or Panasonic's business model, given that both companies manufacture most of the major components in their TVs, and make spare parts readily available for TV models dating back many years. Other companies like Sony and Toshiba rely a little more on outsourcing major components, but they still take the steps to make sure that customers have easy access to service and parts.

Rich-n-Texas
01-08-2009, 12:28 PM
The point about my niece is that there are probably 100's of 1000's of people just like her who either don't want to bother doing the proper research before making the purchase or they simply don't know the data is available. I read some reviews about this Polariod TV and the common problem was with the power supply crapping out within 8 to 12 months. Customer service was rediculous and repair time was worse. And yes, the customer was responsible for back-n-forth shipping IIRC.

I don't dispute anything you're saying here Wooch, but like they say... there's just no accounting for some people's tastes, or sensibilities for that matter.

Woochifer
01-08-2009, 01:57 PM
The point about my niece is that there are probably 100's of 1000's of people just like her who either don't want to bother doing the proper research before making the purchase or they simply don't know the data is available. I read some reviews about this Polariod TV and the common problem was with the power supply crapping out within 8 to 12 months. Customer service was rediculous and repair time was worse. And yes, the customer was responsible for back-n-forth shipping IIRC.

At least those TVs could be dealt with under warranty.

One of Gary Merson/HD Guru's findings from interviewing company reps about their warranty policies is that off-brands like Polaroid, Westinghouse, and Insignia won't even deal with you once the warranty expires. The Polaroid rep he talked to basically admitted that they make no provisions for post-warranty servicing -- no authorized repair centers, no spare parts -- you're basically buying a disposable TV.

Vizio operated that way as well, until they changed their repair policies not long after the original article came out. But, even now, their coverage still falls short of what the name brand TV companies offer, and there's no guarantee of spare parts availability for any Vizio TVs made before July 2007.

pixelthis
01-08-2009, 11:11 PM
At least those TVs could be dealt with under warranty.

One of Gary Merson/HD Guru's findings from interviewing company reps about their warranty policies is that off-brands like Polaroid, Westinghouse, and Insignia won't even deal with you once the warranty expires. The Polaroid rep he talked to basically admitted that they make no provisions for post-warranty servicing -- no authorized repair centers, no spare parts -- you're basically buying a disposable TV.

Vizio operated that way as well, until they changed their repair policies not long after the original article came out. But, even now, their coverage still falls short of what the name brand TV companies offer, and there's no guarantee of spare parts availability for any Vizio TVs made before July 2007.


More lies and half truths from a propaganda spewing website backed by the biggest maker of plasma screens yet.
NO company will deal with you once the warrenty expires.
I couldnt get volkswagen to deal with me a month after the warrenty expired.
No, poloroid , insignia , etc wont deal with you after the warrenty expires.
THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO.
Sony, PANASONIC , WILL, but you will have to pay for such service.
Its common in todays electronics industry to have companies that dont service products out of warrenty.
This includes the companies, but by omision you try to make it seem unusual,
when its actually commonplace in the industry.
Your merson guy isnt a tech, BTW, hes been a PR FLACK for thirty years,
his job is lying for a living, no wonder you quote him so much.
AND the goal for the television industry is a 32" 300$ DISPOSABLE LCD screen.
In every industry the goal has been for long lived disposable products, this way you sell more new stuff, and you dont get the inherent problems associated with fixing anything.
BUT of course this is news to you, as most ANYTHING is.:1:

GMichael
01-09-2009, 06:09 AM
More lies and half truths from a propaganda spewing website backed by the biggest maker of plasma screens yet.
NO company will deal with you once the warrenty expires.
I couldnt get volkswagen to deal with me a month after the warrenty expired.
No, poloroid , insignia , etc wont deal with you after the warrenty expires.
THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO.
Sony, PANASONIC , WILL, but you will have to pay for such service.
Its common in todays electronics industry to have companies that dont service products out of warrenty.
This includes the companies, but by omision you try to make it seem unusual,
when its actually commonplace in the industry.
Your merson guy isnt a tech, BTW, hes been a PR FLACK for thirty years,
his job is lying for a living, no wonder you quote him so much.
AND the goal for the television industry is a 32" 300$ DISPOSABLE LCD screen.
In every industry the goal has been for long lived disposable products, this way you sell more new stuff, and you dont get the inherent problems associated with fixing anything.
BUT of course this is news to you, as most ANYTHING is.:1:

Reputable companies supply parts for repairs. They authorize contracted repair centers to do out of warranty repairs. Both Epson and Toshiba supply parts for 6 years after their models are out of warranty. Companies like HP and Canon not only supply parts and service for several years but also make the specs of their parts available to 3rd party companies to make once they've stopped supporting their older models.
No propaganda here. I work at a parts distributor which is also an authorized repair center.

Ajani
01-09-2009, 08:22 AM
the goal for the television industry is a 32" 300$ DISPOSABLE LCD screen.
In every industry the goal has been for long lived disposable products, this way you sell more new stuff, and you dont get the inherent problems associated with fixing anything.

So you support Visio and other off brands producing 'disposable' LCDs, but you have a problem with the lifespan of Plasma TVs?

I've owned both LCD Projection and Plasma TVs (a 52 inch and a 42 inch Panasonic, respectively).... IMO. both were/are great TVs...

Whether, you should buy an LCD or a Plasma really just depends on your needs and budget...

The strangest part about all these conspiracy theories is that Panasonic is not JUST a Plasma manufacturer... Panasonic produces/has produced just about all the flat panel technologies: Plasma, LCD, LCD Projection, DLP Projection... and will likely embrace any new tech that emerges... So the logic that they would choose to invest so heavily in a 'sinking ship' and have to rely on propaganda to generate sales is ludicrous... They could easily have ditched Plasma and just gone LCD for their entire range if they had wanted to (instead of opening new Plasma factories)....

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-09-2009, 08:57 AM
The rational and logical trying to school the irrational and illogical. Reality versus denial. It seems to me we are wasting our breath here trying to school a fool. However maybe something will get through Pix's thick empty skull.:mad2:

GMichael
01-09-2009, 09:11 AM
The rational and logical trying to school the irrational and illogical. Reality versus denial. It seems to me we are wasting our breath here trying to school a fool. However maybe something will get through Pix's thick empty skull.:mad2:

I think that he gets more of it than he lets on. He just likes to fight. Can you can relate to that?:idea:

Woochifer
01-09-2009, 12:52 PM
More lies and half truths from a propaganda spewing website backed by the biggest maker of plasma screens yet.

More irrational denials of reality from the biggest LCD/Vizio fanboy on this site. :out:


NO company will deal with you once the warrenty expires.
I couldnt get volkswagen to deal with me a month after the warrenty expired.
No, poloroid , insignia , etc wont deal with you after the warrenty expires.
THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO.

And that's why companies that DO provide post-warranty service have a greater commitment to KEEPING their customers once they sell a product to them. Off-brand companies are only concerned about making a quick sales now, not keeping that customer for years down the road.


Sony, PANASONIC , WILL, but you will have to pay for such service.

They also make spare parts available to anyone who'd rather have a local repair shop work on it. The Polaroid rep basically admitted that one of their TVs out-of-warranty can't be fixed.


Its common in todays electronics industry to have companies that dont service products out of warrenty.

But, it's common among the top tier electronics companies to make sure that their products can be serviced once you get out of the warranty period. Even now, after Vizio signed up some outsourcers for service and parts distribution, they still can't ensure spare parts availability for sets more than 18 months old.


Your merson guy isnt a tech, BTW, hes been a PR FLACK for thirty years,
his job is lying for a living, no wonder you quote him so much.

And your non-techie job is staring at a hospital security screen. Difference though is that Merson actually has hands-on experience testing TVs, while your definition of testing is sharing your musings with the box boys at Sams Club. You don't do this for a living, but that doesn't stop you from lying anyway. :out:


AND the goal for the television industry is a 32" 300$ DISPOSABLE LCD screen.

So, you admit that your cheap TV is disposable?


In every industry the goal has been for long lived disposable products, this way you sell more new stuff, and you dont get the inherent problems associated with fixing anything.

Difference is that legitimate companies stand behind their products in the event that they do fail, while fly-by-night marketers don't care if customers are left with expensive paperweights when they can't find spare parts or service manuals to fix broken sets. I guess that's news to you! :out:

Sir Terrence the Terrible
01-09-2009, 03:20 PM
I think that he gets more of it than he lets on. He just likes to fight. Can you can relate to that?:idea:

Not really, not anymore, and certainly not with him.

bobsticks
01-09-2009, 04:23 PM
Not really, not anymore, and certainly not with him.

Ju want part o' me, mang?

Woochifer
01-09-2009, 05:28 PM
Ju want part o' me, mang?

NOW you're relatin' to him! :cool:

Ace H
01-09-2009, 06:56 PM
I've been extremely busy so I'm just getting back to this thread. I finally got around to play with the cable box and in the MENU, there are options to change the output format to 1080i (among others). I did change to 1080i and now it does broadcast HD channels in 1080i.

I don't see much difference right now. I'll leave it set to 1080i for now and see what happens. Having said that, given a choice of output format which would YOU choose 720p or 1080i?

02audionoob
01-09-2009, 07:12 PM
I've been extremely busy so I'm just getting back to this thread. I finally got around to play with the cable box and in the MENU, there are options to change the output format to 1080i (among others). I did change to 1080i and now it does broadcast HD channels in 1080i.

I don't see much difference right now. I'll leave it set to 1080i for now and see what happens. Having said that, given a choice of output format which would YOU choose 720p or 1080i?

I'd choose the one that matches my TV best. The p is the prevailing thing out there, but many people do have 1080i sets that they connect to the cable box with analog cables. Since you've got HDMI, you might as well get the p instead of the i.

Ace H
01-09-2009, 07:20 PM
I have a new Sony HDTV which is capable of output up to 1080p via HDMI. I wanted this info for watching HDTV via a HD Cable Box which gives me a choice of output formats of 720p and 1080i among other formats, since cable TV does not output 1080p signals (at least not in my area).

Woochifer
01-09-2009, 07:31 PM
I've been extremely busy so I'm just getting back to this thread. I finally got around to play with the cable box and in the MENU, there are options to change the output format to 1080i (among others). I did change to 1080i and now it does broadcast HD channels in 1080i.

I don't see much difference right now. I'll leave it set to 1080i for now and see what happens. Having said that, given a choice of output format which would YOU choose 720p or 1080i?

If you have the option, I would just leave the HD channels at the native resolution, and let your TV do the upscaling. Keep in mind that some channels are natively 720p while others are 1080i. Anecdotally, the networks broadcasting in 720p transmit noticeably less image detail than 1080i, but without a comparison, there's no way of knowing if this is just compression coming off the production truck or if it's an issue particular to the resolution itself.

If you force the resolution to rescale at either 720p or 1080i, then you're potentially taking a native 720p or 1080i signal, rescaling it to 720p/1080i, and then sending it to the TV where it gets rescaled yet again to 1080p. Do some experimenting and see what you like best.

With Directv, I noticed that the satellite receiver does not do as good a job at deinterlacing and rescaling as my TV does (visible streaking when the satellite receiver does the upconversion), so I just run everything at native resolution.

The native resolution used by the different networks splits roughly down the middle, but more networks transmit in 1080i. Here's how the split looks.

720p: ABC, Fox, ESPN Networks, A&E Networks (A&E, History, Biography), Fox Sports Net, Fox News, Fox Business, CBS College Sports, MLB Network, Disney Channels (Disney, Toon Disney, ABC Family)

1080i: NBC, CBS, CNN, HDNet, NFL Network, Discovery Networks, National Geographic, HDTV, Food Network, Weather Channel, HBO, Showtime, TNT, USA, TBS, MTV Networks, Nickelodeon Networks, CNBC

Ace H
01-09-2009, 07:34 PM
Unfortunately my cable box does not offer a "native resolution" output. So among the higher resolutions I can either choose 720p or 1080i.

02audionoob
01-09-2009, 07:41 PM
I have a new Sony HDTV which is capable of output up to 1080p via HDMI. I wanted this info for watching HDTV via a HD Cable Box which gives me a choice of output formats of 720p and 1080i among other formats, since cable TV does not output 1080p signals (at least not in my area).

I was just thinking that if you choose 1080i, your set will deinterlace it. It could probably do a good job of that, but it seems like it would be better to just let your set scale it from 720p to 1080p rather than deinterlace it.

Woochifer
01-09-2009, 07:43 PM
Unfortunately my cable box does not offer a "native resolution" output. So among the higher resolutions I can either choose 720p or 1080i.

So, when you specify 1080i, does that mean that ALL channels get output in 1080i? Sounds like a badly designed cable box.

Ace H
01-09-2009, 07:56 PM
Yes, the channels all output at whatever you select on the cable box.

Woochifer
01-09-2009, 08:04 PM
The strangest part about all these conspiracy theories is that Panasonic is not JUST a Plasma manufacturer... Panasonic produces/has produced just about all the flat panel technologies: Plasma, LCD, LCD Projection, DLP Projection... and will likely embrace any new tech that emerges... So the logic that they would choose to invest so heavily in a 'sinking ship' and have to rely on propaganda to generate sales is ludicrous... They could easily have ditched Plasma and just gone LCD for their entire range if they had wanted to (instead of opening new Plasma factories)....

Pixie will probably chime in with his tired retort that Panasonic purposely makes inferior LCD TVs as part of their conspiracy to brainwash the public into buying plasma. :out:

Of course, he'll also conveniently ignore the news out of CES that Panasonic just came out with one of the most energy efficient LCD panels on the market with motion resolution performance that they claim matches last year's plasma models without the reduced viewing angle found in other LED backlit LCDs. Oh, but I'm sure that greatly improving their LCD products is not good enough, since Panasonic insists on improving their plasmas as well (HOW DARE THEY!), with this year's upcoming plasma models using a 1" thick panel and reducing the energy consumption by up to 30% while achieving 100% motion resolution performance.

Woochifer
01-09-2009, 08:14 PM
I was just thinking that if you choose 1080i, your set will deinterlace it. It could probably do a good job of that, but it seems like it would be better to just let your set scale it from 720p to 1080p rather than deinterlace it.

That would depend on how good a job the cable box does at deinterlacing a 1080i picture and the rescaling it down to 720p. When I tried rescaling a 1080i picture to 720p on my Directv box, I noticed a slight loss in picture detail. Outputing a 720p channel as a 1080i signal, I didn't notice much difference (then again, I didn't try this comparison with sports programming).

Obviously, the outcome for Ace would depend on the quality of the video processors in his cable box and/or his TV. In my situation, the video processing in the Directv receiver was not as good as with my TV, so I let went with native resolution.

Rich-n-Texas
01-09-2009, 08:42 PM
Pix brings out the best in you T. Everybody here knows that. :yesnod:

02audionoob
01-09-2009, 08:43 PM
That would depend on how good a job the cable box does at deinterlacing a 1080i picture and the rescaling it down to 720p.


Good point. I'd forgotten about the fact that the HD channel is most likely 1080i to begin with. So then it makes more sense to let the TV set just convert from 1080i to 1080p. It's one less conversion step.