LCD or Plasma help!

[dannynguyen3573]

I need help to buy a tv from 46"- 52" but I don't what is a goood choice Plasma or LCD, 720 or 1080? Privce range under $1000. Please help.

Thanks

[Woochifer]

Generally speaking, plasmas have the advantage with color accuracy, contrast, and motion resolution. Image retention is not much of an issue with the newer plasma TVs, but manufacturers still recommend that you avoid leaving static images (such as video game start up screens) up for long periods of time. The primary shortcoming of plasma is its lower light output.

LCD's primary advantage is light output, which is something to consider if you have a bright room. The primary shortcoming is with motion resolution. 120 Hz LCDs handle motion better, but they are more expensive than comparable plasmas and still have lower motion resolution.

I went with plasma because I felt that it renders a more natural looking image, especially with film sources, and it's noticeably smoother with moving backgrounds. I would also recommend 1080p, so you can maximize your picture quality with 1080p sources.

Right now, Costco has the Panasonic 46" 1080p plasma (model TH-C46FD18) going for $949, so it meets all of your specs. This model is the same thing as the Panasonic TH-46PZ80U, and the reliability of Panasonic's TVs has been the best in the industry.

Nightflier just bought this TV (likes the picture quality but thinking about returning it because it might not output 5.1 Dolby Digital out of the digital audio output -- irrelevant issue for you if you use a satellite receiver or cable set-top box), and I have the 50" version (so does RoadRunner6). You can read our posts about the TV. For picture quality, the Pannys are great, but their entry level models lack the more comprehensive picture controls found on their higher end models. So, if you intend to do a lot of fine tuning with the picture calibration, the range of options is more limited here.

[RoadRunner6]

Hi Danny and welcome. I agree on the Costco Panasonic TH-C46FD18 46" 1080p Plasma. I don't think you will find any set within several hundered dollars that will match this display. An outstanding set for SDTV, HDTV, DVD and Blu-Ray. Don't judge by what you see with the super bright lights in Costco. You have 90 days return.

RR6

[natronforever]

I too bought the TH-C46FD18 46" Panasonic plasma from Costco. It's awesome, and I recommend getting plasma over lcd, for the reasons listed from woochifer above. If you buy from Costco, and you don't like it, you can just return it. They never hassle you about that kind of stuff.

[blackraven]

Danny, If you have a bright room or there will be a lot of reflections off the TV screen, then definitely go with an LCD, otherwise a Plasma would be a good choice and it would save you some money. I have a 52" Sony LCD in a very bright room facing a huge window and we have no problems with glare or reflections, but a plasma would be difficult to watch.

[pixelthis]

There are no "motion" issues with curent LCD tv sets.
If you want a decent TV get a LCD, if you want a paperweight get a plasma.
Plasma sets use phospers, which can get burned in with whatever image they display,
just like a CRT.
Plasma fanboys like wooch and RR will tell you that its not a problem.
THEN they will tell you that you have to set your new plasma set at half brightness
for 100 hours, and make sure that the "anti burn in" circuits are on!
And forget watching news channels or playing games or anything with a static image.
Otherwise its not a problem.
GET a LCD, they have no burn in issues, no glare issues, and no throb issues.
THATS RIGHT, a plasma set will fade in and out, get darker and then lighter, you cant see it with the naked eye, put a camera on one and watch it on an LCD screen.
Its some kind of anti burn in feature that has the effective result of reducing overall brightness.
GET an LCD, they LAST 20+ years, then you can change the backlight and use em another 20+ years.
AND get 1080p, the only alternative these days is 720p, which cant compete,
not even close.
As for 120 hz, I saw such a set, and it was an amazing picture, but I dont have enough expeerience with one to know, really.
Just stay away from plasma, trust me on this.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Sorry Danny for the interruption. There is only one thing we can say about Pixelthis:

người ngu dại



RR6 :D

PS: The current models from Panasonic have a very effective non-reflective screen and are significantly brighter than previous year's models.

[GMichael]

I only count one fanboy on this thread. Who could that be?


LCD's and plasmas both have their pros & cons. Wooch laid those out for you very well. I'll add that LCD's are lighter and generally use less power.
Think about what conditions you'll be watching in. If this is going into a bright room with lots of windows, then LCD may be better for you. If you have more control of your lighting, then Plasma will give you a better picture.
1080p over 720p/1080i is the way to go. Nothing wrong with 720, but 1080 is worth the extra cash if you have it available.

[Woochifer]

Danny, If you have a bright room or there will be a lot of reflections off the TV screen, then definitely go with an LCD, otherwise a Plasma would be a good choice and it would save you some money. I have a 52" Sony LCD in a very bright room facing a huge window and we have no problems with glare or reflections, but a plasma would be difficult to watch.

The newer plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung have greatly improved anti-glare screens that significantly reduce the reflections. On the LCD side, several of the newer Samsungs now come with glossy screens that reflect a lot more than the matted ones. You already see LCD computer monitors moving towards glossy screens, and the same thing has started happening on the HDTV side.

[Woochifer]

I only count one fanboy on this thread. Who could that be?

Never knew that a fetish for sawing LCDs in half qualifies someone for fanboy status ... :idea:

[GMichael]

Never knew that a fetish for sawing LCDs in half qualifies someone for fanboy status ... :idea:

Everyone needs a hobby.:1:

[Woochifer]

There are no "motion" issues with curent LCD tv sets.

The only LCD TVs that can render more than 480 lines of resolution with moving images are 120 Hz. I'd say it's an "issue" if a LCD TV that claims to be HD cannot even render SD resolution on a moving image.


If you want a decent TV get a LCD, if you want a paperweight get a plasma.

:out:


Plasma fanboys like wooch and RR will tell you that its not a problem.

Because it's not.


THEN they will tell you that you have to set your new plasma set at half brightness
for 100 hours

Which is not all that different from the calibrated settings. (picture: 60%, brightness: 45%)


And forget watching news channels or playing games or anything with a static image.
Otherwise its not a problem.

Like I said before, if image retention is such a problems, then how come the plasmas at my local sports bar don't have the ESPN logo permanently emblazoned on them? Recycling old talking points does not make them relevant to what today's TVs are doing.


GET a LCD, they have no burn in issues, no glare issues, and no throb issues.

Just issues with sub-SD motion resolution, color accuracy, and contrast levels.


THATS RIGHT, a plasma set will fade in and out, get darker and then lighter, you cant see it with the naked eye, put a camera on one and watch it on an LCD screen.

Irrelevant point given that everybody else watches TV with naked eyes -- not video feeds from cameras pointed at other TVs.


GET an LCD, they LAST 20+ years, then you can change the backlight and use em another 20+ years.

Got any 20-year old LCD TVs to show us? Or are you still looking for a sawed-in-half LCD TV to demonstrate for us? :lol::lol::lol::lol:

[nightflier]

P.S., I've been watching HD and SD on my new Costco plasma and I am extremely happy with it. My DVD player only puts out 480p and it still looks great, a little softer, but otherwise great - not noticeable unless you watch them side-by-side with true HD. We sit about 8-10' away and we can't see any of the pixelation and motion blur issues we noticed on LCDs. Truly an amazing picture and setup could not be easier.

The other night I played around with another feature of this TV: I plugged my laptop's PC output into the TV and while it's certainly not HD quality anymore, I was able to play a couple of rounds of Civilization IV w/o any problems. From 10' away, it's about as good as being 15" away from a computer monitor. I haven't tried any action/racing games yet, but the picture so far is simply astounding.

For the record, I was making my comments tongue-in-cheek about returning it because of the digital audio output. I would have to find something else really wrong with it before I did that, and so far I haven't. The TV is just that great. Besides, where else will you find that much TV for $950, 90-days no-questions-asked returns, and with a 2-yr warranty?

Pix makes some points about plasma that I simply cannot concur on. I will be buying a smaller LCD for the living room in the near future (plasmas seem to be only available in larger sizes), and I'll compare the two side-by side, but for now, I don't see any reason why someone would spend 20% more on an LCD that looks worse. It just doesn't make sense. I had some concerns about power consumption & heat as well, but after doing more research I found that these issues have more to do with how it's used and that's something I can control. The Panasonic 46" actually stays remarkably cool, cooler than many LCDs I've compared it to.

Buy the plasma, you won't be disappointed.

[RoadRunner6]

Vizio now makes a 32" plasma.


(whoops, does this mean I'm spamming for Vizio?)

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]The only LCD TVs that can render more than 480 lines of resolution with moving images are 120 Hz. I'd say it's an "issue" if a LCD TV that claims to be HD cannot even render SD resolution on a moving image.

MY LCD is 1080p and renders full resolution moving images with no problem.
If this isnt the case then get some of your govt wonk buddies to file a lawsuit with LCD makers for misrepresenting themselves.
BUT you wont do that because this is another totally BS lie.
LCD screens have outperformed plasma for some time

:out:



Because it's not.




Which is not all that different from the calibrated settings. (picture: 60%, brightness: 45%)

The point is that you cant run a plasma much higher than those "calibrated" settings,
you will ruin it.
I have seen RPTV sets using CRTS with burn in running at just half brightness,
and they were nowhere near as bright as plasma.
Phosper tech is horse and buggy, phosper tech involving tubes (which is what a plasma screen is) is horse and buggy squared


Like I said before, if image retention is such a problems, then how come the plasmas at my local sports bar don't have the ESPN logo permanently emblazoned on them? Recycling old talking points does not make them relevant to what today's TVs are doing.

Just wait. BTW have you ever seen those sets turned off?
Nice to know where you are getting all of your info, A SPORTS BAR.
Explains a lot.


Just issues with sub-SD motion resolution, color accuracy, and contrast levels.

A totally made up lie


Irrelevant point given that everybody else watches TV with naked eyes -- not video feeds from cameras pointed at other TVs.

ITS RELEVANT because it cuts the brightness of any plasma by 50%
If you knew anything about anything you would know this


Got any 20-year old LCD TVs to show us? Or are you still looking for a sawed-in-half LCD TV to demonstrate for us? :lol::lol::lol::lol:
They were making portable LCD sets twenty years ago, and mine still worked a few years ago when I sold it.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN "plasma" set that lasted much beyond five years, that still worked halfway decently.
I did see the inside of a Fujitsu that was several years old, the 30,000 volt power supply had a lot of crud encrusted on it, and when you cranked it there was a green line running down the side of the pic, and this was an ED set, nowhere near as hot as one of the newer ones.
I have seen about a dozen of these things, they look like hell after five or six years,
if they last that long.
Just keep spewing your lies and BS THO , you cant escape from reality, which you will have to face when you get up some morning and find out that new toy has gone the way
of all badly engineered things, mainy, as the Brits say...
TITS UP:1:

[audio amateur]

Get a videoprojector:)

[Duds]

go with plasma, and put pixelthis on your ignore list...


I need help to buy a tv from 46"- 52" but I don't what is a goood choice Plasma or LCD, 720 or 1080? Privce range under $1000. Please help.

Thanks

[Feanor]

I need help to buy a tv from 46"- 52" but I don't what is a goood choice Plasma or LCD, 720 or 1080? Privce range under $1000. Please help.

Thanks

If my old CRT broke today I'd be looking for a 46-50" 1080p set. Since I'm a poor person raw price is a big factor for me. Nevertheless the sage advice is that plazma is better. So I take a quick look around here & now and this is what I see, (Cdn$) ...

Insignia 1080p 47" LCD (NS-LCD47HD-09) $900
Sharp Aquos 1080p 46" LCD (LC46D64U) $1100
Insignia 1080p 50" Plasma (NS-PDP50HD-09) $1100No brainer in this case. I'd go with the Insignia, (BestBuy house brand), 50" plazma.

[Woochifer]

MY LCD is 1080p and renders full resolution moving images with no problem.
If this isnt the case then get some of your govt wonk buddies to file a lawsuit with LCD makers for misrepresenting themselves.
BUT you wont do that because this is another totally BS lie.

Actually, you're the one pitching the heaping piles of BS if you claim that your LCD renders "full resolution moving images", given that EVERY TV loses resolution on moving images. Just happens that LCD loses more resolution on moving images than ANY OTHER screen tech, and this has been confirmed on multiple benchmark tests by reputable publications such as Home Theater magazine.

Every 1080p TV can display 1,080 lines on a still image, but 60 Hz LCDs can't even maintain SD resolution (480 lines) on a moving image. Even the 120 Hz models fall way short of rendering 600 lines. Contrast this with 1080p plasmas, which can display over 800 lines on a moving image (Panasonic is claiming 900 lines with their current models).

Tell me how this is a lie if it comes up repeatedly on benchmark tests?


LCD screens have outperformed plasma for some time

Aside from light output, there are no other picture performance measures where LCD outperforms plasma.


The point is that you cant run a plasma much higher than those "calibrated" settings,
you will ruin it.

Why would anyone want to run it higher than the calibrated settings, given that's the optimal picture quality? And running a plasma on the Vivid setting won't "ruin" it -- it will just look like crap, y'know like bad LCD playback.


I have seen RPTV sets using CRTS with burn in running at just half brightness,
and they were nowhere near as bright as plasma.
Phosper tech is horse and buggy, phosper tech involving tubes (which is what a plasma screen is) is horse and buggy squared

And yet, your "advanced" LCD tech still can't maintain HD resolution with moving images. :rolleyes:


Just wait. BTW have you ever seen those sets turned off?
Nice to know where you are getting all of your info, A SPORTS BAR.
Explains a lot.

Yep, I've seen those plasmas turned off -- no image retention, no burn in. What does going to a sports bar explain-- that I get out and have friends with whom to hang out?

At least the info that I present is factual and relevant, unlike all the debunked decade-old nonsense that you keep recycling over and over.


A totally made up lie

Not a lie if it's confirmed by objective third-party sources. Something that cannot be said about the inane ramblings that you keep posting.


ITS RELEVANT because it cuts the brightness of any plasma by 50%
If you knew anything about anything you would know this

It's irrelevant because you even admit that this is invisible to the naked eye. Why would anyone other than a freak like you who stares at a video camera pointed at a video monitor even care?


They were making portable LCD sets twenty years ago, and mine still worked a few years ago when I sold it.

Portable LCDs?! Yeah, the picture quality on those sets is oh-so-close to HD resolution, and oh-so-close to the average home screen size, right?

Comparing the durability of a PORTABLE LCD TV with a screen size of less than 5" and crappy as f*ck picture quality is about as relevant as comparing the motion resolution of a LCD TV with a LCD watch (though it does suck with both)! :lol::lol::lol::lol:


I HAVE NEVER SEEN "plasma" set that lasted much beyond five years, that still worked halfway decently.

My in-laws' 8-year old Fujitsu plasma works just fine.


had a lot of crud encrusted on it, and when you cranked it there was a green line running down the side of the pic, and this was an ED set, nowhere near as hot as one of the newer ones.
I have seen about a dozen of these things, they look like hell after five or six years,
if they last that long.

Crud encrusted? Yeah, sounds like it was installed in an "ideal" operating environment! And what was it displaying? Static images 24/7? Hardly an example worth noting, given that nobody on this board uses their TV as a public message display.

And do actually think that the plasma technology of today is same as it was 5 or 6 years ago? The LCD sets of that vintage looked even worse. But, let's not bring TODAY'S reality into the discussion, since your comfort zone seems to end at turn of the century. :out:


Just keep spewing your lies and BS THO , you cant escape from reality, which you will have to face when you get up some morning and find out that new toy has gone the way
of all badly engineered things, mainy, as the Brits say...
TITS UP:1:

More wishful thinking and fantasizing on your part given that the recent Panasonic plasmas have a failure rate about 3X lower than the Vizios of your vintage. If anyone needs a reality check, it ain't me! :cool:

[pixelthis]

Every 1080p TV can display 1,080 lines on a still image, but 60 Hz LCDs can't even maintain SD resolution (480 lines) on a moving image. Even the 120 Hz models fall way short of rendering 600 lines. Contrast this with 1080p plasmas, which can display over 800 lines on a moving image (Panasonic is claiming 900 lines with their current models).

Tell me how this is a lie if it comes up repeatedly on benchmark tests?


lets see a link.
AND for the LAST TIME, not all video monitors "lose res" when theres movement, just those with an interlaced picture. Get your facts straight.





Aside from light output, there are no other picture performance measures where LCD outperforms plasma.

They are even in most cases, I am constantly staging my own experiment, and I am always coming across people who cant tell the (very) slight differences in picture
between plasma and lcd, and that is what your "specs" represent, a very slight difference.


Why would anyone want to run it higher than the calibrated settings, given that's the optimal picture quality? And running a plasma on the Vivid setting won't "ruin" it -- it will just look like crap, y'know like bad LCD playback.

AND it will really look like crap after you run it awhile and burn in occures.
AND that may be "you're" "optimum" image but most wont be happy with the dim image and turn it up, had that conversation with the great unwashed many times over.
Not to mention that plasma, like any other phosper tech will get dimmer over time and require steady inching up of the brightness to "optmum", until you dont see a pic at all, just like a CRT



And yet, your "advanced" LCD tech still can't maintain HD resolution with moving images. :rolleyes:

There is really no way to measure res with moving images, but progressive does a lot better than interlaced, otherwise there is no difference


Yep, I've seen those plasmas turned off -- no image retention, no burn in. What does going to a sports bar explain-- that I get out and have friends with whom to hang out?

AND I have seen plasmas with extreme burn in, what does that explain, that I have more experience than you?


At least the info that I present is factual and relevant, unlike all the debunked decade-old nonsense that you keep recycling over and over.

That "decade old nonsense" is going to bite you in the ass sooner or later



Not a lie if it's confirmed by objective third-party sources. Something that cannot be said about the inane ramblings that you keep posting.

Then lets see some confrimation



It's irrelevant because you even admit that this is invisible to the naked eye. Why would anyone other than a freak like you who stares at a video camera pointed at a video monitor even care?

I dont care because I dont own a piece of crap that has to cycle between on and off to keep it from getting serious screen damage, which is why LCD is so much brighter,
IT STAYS BRIGHT




Portable LCDs?! Yeah, the picture quality on those sets is oh-so-close to HD resolution, and oh-so-close to the average home screen size, right?

NOT EVEN CLOSE, BUT ITS AN INDICATOR OF HOW LONG THIS TECH LASTS


Comparing the durability of a PORTABLE LCD TV with a screen size of less than 5" and crappy as f*ck picture quality is about as relevant as comparing the motion resolution of a LCD TV with a LCD watch (though it does suck with both)! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

iTS EXTREMELY RELEVANT, just like the toxicity of a virus in a petri dish is relevant
to its leathality in the real world.


My in-laws' 8-year old Fujitsu plasma works just fine.

And its ED right?



Crud encrusted? Yeah, sounds like it was installed in an "ideal" operating environment! And what was it displaying? Static images 24/7? Hardly an example worth noting, given that nobody on this board uses their TV as a public message display.

Ther is no way that something with a 30,000 volt power supply will be as reliable as somethinng that doesnt have one


And do actually think that the plasma technology of today is same as it was 5 or 6 years ago? The LCD sets of that vintage looked even worse. But, let's not bring TODAY'S reality into the discussion, since your comfort zone seems to end at turn of the century. :out:

If you think plasma tech has improved significantly over the last six years I have a bridge
I would like to sell you.
Most research in plasma tech has been on the reliability side, trying to get one to last more than five years.
Early plasmas were so fragil that they had to be shipped in metal cases, gas escaping from the tube was a serious issue, and black level(something fanboys brag about) was so bad it was mentioned in every review of one.
And they were so expensive that mainly ED models were sold, because they were cheaper and could compete, and last longer for that matter



More wishful thinking and fantasizing on your part given that the recent Panasonic plasmas have a failure rate about 3X lower than the Vizios of your vintage. If anyone needs a reality check, it ain't me! :cool:[/QUOTE]

More "statistics", and we all know what Mark Twain said about those.
But I am not going around and round on this with you, you will find out the hard way
in a few years , like groundbeef did when his plasma died with a 2700$ "circuit board"
(tube) repair. You will go the way he did, brag about it until it breaks, then clam up.
But I will know, things built in a similar fashion tend to act in a similar fashion.:1:

[GMichael]

Pix,

I love reading your posts. No one make me laugh the way you do. Thanks.


:out:

[Woochifer]

AND for the LAST TIME, not all video monitors "lose res" when theres movement, just those with an interlaced picture. Get your facts straight.

My facts are straight. Yours obviously were never facts to begin with.

Although I do take back my point about all video techs losing resolution. Apparently, HDTV Test now shows some of this year's Pioneer and Panasonic plasma models displaying 1,080 lines on their motion resolution tests. :D


They are even in most cases, I am constantly staging my own experiment, and I am always coming across people who cant tell the (very) slight differences in picture
between plasma and lcd, and that is what your "specs" represent, a very slight difference.

Difference between 900 lines of resolution and 300 lines (which is what the HDTV Test site averages with 60 Hz LCD TVs) on a moving image are readily apparent. Talking to random strangers at WalMart and watching crappy test signals on torch mode TVs doesn't fit any valid definition of "experiment" that I'm aware of. (Obviously bias control is a concept that eludes you).


AND it will really look like crap after you run it awhile and burn in occures.
AND that may be "you're" "optimum" image but most wont be happy with the dim image and turn it up, had that conversation with the great unwashed many times over.

And those same clueless people will be pinching their pennies, buying the cheapest set they can find, and running SD sources in the stretch mode thinking that they're watching HD. People who actually care about picture quality will take the time to adjust their set properly, which is already pretty close to reference with the Pannys' Cinema preset. Anybody with any clue of how a picture is supposed to look won't leave their TV in the torch mode.


Not to mention that plasma, like any other phosper tech will get dimmer over time and require steady inching up of the brightness to "optmum", until you dont see a pic at all, just like a CRT

Dim until you don't see a pic at all? I've never seen a CRT do that. You sure that this "dimmed to nothing" CRT was plugged in and powered on? Sad, but your fleeting grasp of reality has descended down to pure bizarro world delusion.


There is really no way to measure res with moving images, but progressive does a lot better than interlaced, otherwise there is no difference

Yuh, LCD TVs perform poorly on monoscoping motion resolution tests, so you deny that those tests even exist! :lol: Pix can't deal with reality, so he denies -- or just makes it up. :rolleyes: These test results are out there for anyone else to see for themselves, so you might be the only person who actually believes that "there is really no way to measure res with moving images."

And if there's no difference other than progressive vs interlaced, then how come all of the 1080p 60 Hz LCD TVs that I've seen tested by Home Theater, HD Guru, and HDTV Test measure under 400 lines of resolution on that test, while all of the 1080p plasmas measure over 800 lines on that same test (this year's Pioneers and Panasonics now measure over 900 lines on those tests)?


AND I have seen plasmas with extreme burn in, what does that explain, that I have more experience than you?

And how long ago were those TVs made, and what were they displaying?

Like I said, if burn in is such a widespread problem, as you are claiming, then how come I don't see any evidence of it on plasma TVs that are tuned to ESPN and other sports channels (all of which have stationary images and news crawls galore) upwards of 12+ hours a day?


That "decade old nonsense" is going to bite you in the ass sooner or later

Only if you believe that plasma TVs have not changed at all over the last 10 years. :out:


Then lets see some confrimation

Be careful what you ask for ... :cool:

I've posted last year's Home Theater results many times, but obviously your reading comprehension hasn't improved any in the past year. Just for fun, I'll repost this with some newer test results for your further reality checking. The LCD results have improved only because most of the tested sets now have some form of motion interpolation (such as 100 Hz/120 Hz modes), but still fall short of maintaining HD resolution with motion. And they still fall way short of what the plasmas display. Don't say I didn't warn you, but I'm sure you'll find some new way of denying the truth or otherwise manufacturing an alternative reality! :cool:

MOTION RESOLUTION RESULTS (All sets are 1080p)

Link to last year's Home Theater roundup (http://www.hometheatermag.com/images/archivesart/1107hookHDTVrez.jpg)

PLASMA
Panasonic TH-50PZ-800B - 1,080 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-th50pz800b-review-20080907128.htm

LG 60PG7000 - 800 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/lg-60pg7000-20081019133.htm

Pioneer PDP-LX5090 - 1,080 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP-LX5090/Calibration.htm

Panasonic TH-42PZ80 - 1,080 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-th42pz80b-review-20080514109.htm

Panasonic TH-42PZ85B - 1,080 lines (IFC off), 950 lines on
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-th42pz80b-review-20080514109.htm

LCD
Sony KDL40V4000 - 300 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl40v4000-review-20080822127.htm

Samsung LE55A956 (LED backlit) - 650 (with 100 Hz MotionPlus), 300 without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-le55a956-20081106134.htm

Samsung LE40A786 - 600 lines (with MotionPlus), 250-300 lines without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-le40a786-review-20080922131.htm

Sony KDL40W4500 - 650 lines (with MotionFlow on), 300 lines without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl40w4500-20081116135.htm

Sharp LC42B20E - 550 lines (Action Mode engaged), 250-300 lines without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sharp-lc42b20e-review-20080715122.htm

Samsung LE40A559P - 300 lines (with MotionPlus), 300 lines without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-le40a559p-le40a556p-20080618120.htm

Toshiba 40ZF355D - 450 lines (ActiveVision on), 250-300 lines without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Toshiba-40ZF355D/Calibration.htm

Samsung LE40A656 - 650 lines (with MotionPlus), 300 lines without
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE40A656/Calibration.htm

Panasonic TX37LZD85 - 600 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Panasonic-TX37LZD85/Calibration/

Sony KDL40W4000 - 300 lines
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Sony-KDL40W4000/Calibration/


I dont care because I dont own a piece of crap that has to cycle between on and off to keep it from getting serious screen damage, which is why LCD is so much brighter,
IT STAYS BRIGHT

Of course you care, otherwise you wouldn't obsess over something that can't be seen with the naked eye! :lol: I certainly don't care because my TV is calibrated and it renders an outstanding image.


NOT EVEN CLOSE, BUT ITS AN INDICATOR OF HOW LONG THIS TECH LASTS

Unless you were watching that portable LCD TV for 4 hours a day over the last 20 years (and if you were it says a LOT about your picture quality standards!), it says absolutely nothing about LCD reliability.


iTS EXTREMELY RELEVANT, just like the toxicity of a virus in a petri dish is relevant
to its leathality in the real world.

I think the padded room is getting readied for you ... :out:


If you think plasma tech has improved significantly over the last six years I have a bridge
I would like to sell you.

I don't buy bridges, and it looks like you don't like news about real world product improvements to intrude on your decade-old talking points. Sorry, but just because you choose to ignore/deny the changes over the past six years doesn't mean that they didn't occur. Time moves on, reality is what it is -- deal with it.


Most research in plasma tech has been on the reliability side, trying to get one to last more than five years.

And the plasma reliability on the latest reports is now equal to or better than LCD.


Early plasmas were so fragil that they had to be shipped in metal cases, gas escaping from the tube was a serious issue, and black level(something fanboys brag about) was so bad it was mentioned in every review of one.

Let's see. Mine came shipped in the same kind of cardboard container that you see with any other TV ... and waddya know, it worked right out of the box! You gotta stop with these ridiculous stories -- they merely confirm my assertions that your information is old and irrelevant.


More "statistics"

Yep, and they trump your delusional observations because reliability data is based on thousands of cases, not just conversations with strangers at WalMart.


But I am not going around and round on this with you, you will find out the hard way
in a few years , like groundbeef did when his plasma died with a 2700$ "circuit board"
(tube) repair. You will go the way he did, brag about it until it breaks, then clam up.
But I will know, things built in a similar fashion tend to act in a similar fashion.:1:

Like I said, for every chance I get at drawing the short straw, you have to take three turns because of the higher failure rate on your Vizio. Personally, I like my odds a lot better. :cool:

[RoadRunner6]

Boom-Boom Wooch Wins In First Round Knockout!

(photo below of knockout punch)

[pixelthis]

Of course you care, otherwise you wouldn't obsess over something that can't be seen with the naked eye! :lol: I certainly don't care because my TV is calibrated and it renders an outstanding image.

AND the Titanic was breaking the speed record before it hit the iceberg.
Give it a few years, give those phospers a chance to degrade, go off color, get good and burned in.




Unless you were watching that portable LCD TV for 4 hours a day over the last 20 years (and if you were it says a LOT about your picture quality standards!), it says absolutely nothing about LCD reliability.

The record for LCD reliability goes back 20 years, Plasma six.
They took the whore from the bowling alley and put her in a nice dress, doesnt change
anything.







I don't buy bridges, and it looks like you don't like news about real world product improvements to intrude on your decade-old talking points. Sorry, but just because you choose to ignore/deny the changes over the past six years doesn't mean that they didn't occur. Time moves on, reality is what it is -- deal with it.


Tech doesnt change that much over six years.
You govt wonks are all the same, "talking points" and other nonsense.
YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT REALITY THO, unfortunatly you have no understanding
that one day you will be removing "realities " foot from your ass.



And the plasma reliability on the latest reports is now equal to or better than LCD.
You have no way of knowing.
We will have a better idea of plasma reliabiliy when more sets hit the ten year mark,
that is if any ever do.



Let's see. Mine came shipped in the same kind of cardboard container that you see with any other TV ... and waddya know, it worked right out of the box! You gotta stop with these ridiculous stories -- they merely confirm my assertions that your information is old and irrelevant.


Do some research, oh thats right, you dont research, you make stuff up.
Go back in the archives of that HT mag you worship at the feet of(and that is wrong about
testing for resolution during motion) and read some of the stories about early plasmas.
Even after shipping them in a stel container they still lost half before they got to the store.
Most of that "research" you talk about has been getting plasmas to last longer than the warranty.




Yep, and they trump your delusional observations because reliability data is based on thousands of cases, not just conversations with strangers at WalMart.

Plasma hasnt been around long enough to have "reliable" reliability data.
Like being a lab rat?



Like I said, for every chance I get at drawing the short straw, you have to take three turns because of the higher failure rate on your Vizio. Personally, I like my odds a lot better.


I like your odds better too, because they are not mine.
Yours are about as good as your average mutt stuck on a freeway in L.A
WHICH YOU WILL FIND OUT .
My set is solid state, yours is the same basic tube / phosper tech that is used in CRT's.
And the best of those last ten years, and the design parameters , while close, are not nearly as close as your plasma.
GOOD LUCK, YOU'LL NEED IT.:1:

[falcondan95705]

Pixelthat... Here are the parameters for LCD VS PLASMA... LCD wins for BRIGHTNESS!! Kinda like a speaker who is LOUDER... as you know, loud is NOT necessarily BETTER. LCD Wins for NON reflectiveness of backround LIGHT... But this is about as far as LCD wins OVER PLASMA... The most Difficult Color for a TV to reproduce is BLACK.. If a tv can do black well then all is GREAT!.. Plasmas excell at producing Black.. Plasma also can do fast motion without pixelation or bluring.. Plasma Wins here.. The best colors are reproduced with plasma not lcd because of their problems with blacks.. Sitting off center is a problem with LCD and NOT with PLASMA.. Plasmas will go over 30 years of 8 hours per day use before they get half as bright as new.. So if one has no control over light and does not want reflections on the screen, go with LCD, however, if one wants the BEST PICTURE REPRODUCTION, and can control the light, then it is the PLASMA!!!!

[Woochifer]

AND the Titanic was breaking the speed record before it hit the iceberg. Give it a few years, give those phospers a chance to degrade, go off color, get good and burned in.

My parents already have a few years (and they're retired, so it's on 12 hours a day) on theirs, and it still doesn't need a recalibration.


The record for LCD reliability goes back 20 years, Plasma six.

Yeah, that portable battery powered LCD TV of yours is a real model for picture quality! :lol:


They took the whore from the bowling alley and put her in a nice dress, doesnt change

You would know about bowling alley whores, now wouldn't you? :out:


Tech doesnt change that much over six years.

Let's see. Six years ago, we didn't have 1080p TVs. VHS still had a market share lead over DVD. Fewer than 10% of TV stations had converted over to digital. Windows XP had just come out. HDMI didn't exist. DVD-A had just come onto the market. The original XBOX had just come onto the market. And tube TVs still led the market in all segments.

All big changes -- but, you still cite your ten-year old plasma reviews and claim that as evidence that the world is still the same! :out:


You govt wonks are all the same, "talking points" and other nonsense.
YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT REALITY THO, unfortunatly you have no understanding
that one day you will be removing "realities " foot from your ass.

Nope, you're the one who's all about talking points. And old ones at that. Might help if you actually try checking on how things in the market have changed before you dip into the well and break out the tired cliches yet again. Of course, that would imply that you're actually interested in learning something new, rather than clinging to your old debunked arguments.


You have no way of knowing.
We will have a better idea of plasma reliabiliy when more sets hit the ten year mark,
that is if any ever do.

Of course I have a way of knowing -- the data is out there, published, sourced, and documented. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

And within ten years, I'll be ready to buy a new TV anyway. My 32" CRT worked great for the last 10 years , but technology changes and the newer TVs have better performance, HD resolution, wall-mountable form factors, and they cost less than that CRT TV did. I'm not going to keep a TV longer than I have just to prove that it can last 20 years.

Do you really think that today's 1080p performance will measure up to what will be available in 10 years? You keep pining away for OLED, yet now you'd rather keep your precious Vizio for 10 years even when a clearly superior technology will be on the market?


Do some research, oh thats right, you dont research, you make stuff up.

:lol: I notice that you ignored the motion resolution data that I posted! How sad -- you challenged me to back my assertions, and when I do, you just pretend that it never happened. :lol:

Typical pix response -- when reality stares you in the face, you continue to deny deny deny. But, that's okay ... it's rather fun to see you squirm when you're at the end of one losing argument after another. :cool:


Go back in the archives of that HT mag you worship at the feet of(and that is wrong about
testing for resolution during motion) and read some of the stories about early plasmas.
Even after shipping them in a stel container they still lost half before they got to the store.

You don't need a new TV, you need to buy yourself a calendar! Or at least make a trip down to Costco -- plasmas don't come in metal containers, or is that news to you? :out:


Most of that "research" you talk about has been getting plasmas to last longer than the warranty.

The Consumer Reports reliability data is based on a rolling three-year average, which exceeds the warranty period. Right now, the failure rates on plasma TVs range between 1% and 5% depending on the manufacturer, which is narrower than the 2% to 10% range that you see with LCD TV brands.


Plasma hasnt been around long enough to have "reliable" reliability data.
Like being a lab rat?

Reliability data has been available as long as plasma TVs have been on the market. Plasma reliability has improved every year. You know that plasmas have been on the market for more than 10 years, right? Or are you still re-reading those 10 year old articles, and pretending that it's Groundhog Day?


I like your odds better too, because they are not mine.
Yours are about as good as your average mutt stuck on a freeway in L.A
WHICH YOU WILL FIND OUT .
My set is solid state, yours is the same basic tube / phosper tech that is used in CRT's.
And the best of those last ten years, and the design parameters , while close, are not nearly as close as your plasma.
GOOD LUCK, YOU'LL NEED IT.:1:

I see that you're still in denial that your Vizio comes from a series that has a failure rate 3X greater than the Panasonic plasmas. All your rantings about solid state vs phosphor ain't gonna save you from the lower spec components, inconsistent QC, and targeted-to-cheap edict that come with second-tier off-brand TVs. In a game of Russian roulette, I guess you think it's better to take triple the number of shots as your opponent. :out:

[falcondan95705]

Both have GREAT PICTURES... "Can't we all jest GET-AlONG?"

[Woochifer]

Pixelthat... Here are the parameters for LCD VS PLASMA... LCD wins for BRIGHTNESS!! Kinda like a speaker who is LOUDER... as you know, loud is NOT necessarily BETTER. LCD Wins for NON reflectiveness of backround LIGHT... But this is about as far as LCD wins OVER PLASMA... The most Difficult Color for a TV to reproduce is BLACK.. If a tv can do black well then all is GREAT!.. Plasmas excell at producing Black.. Plasma also can do fast motion without pixelation or bluring.. Plasma Wins here.. The best colors are reproduced with plasma not lcd because of their problems with blacks.. Sitting off center is a problem with LCD and NOT with PLASMA.. Plasmas will go over 30 years of 8 hours per day use before they get half as bright as new.. So if one has no control over light and does not want reflections on the screen, go with LCD, however, if one wants the BEST PICTURE REPRODUCTION, and can control the light, then it is the PLASMA!!!!

Ironically, Samsung negates one of LCD's advantages by going with glossy screens on their newer LCD HDTV models. The move to glossy LCD screens has been ongoing with laptops and PC monitors, but is only now beginning to migrate over to the TV side.

[audio amateur]

Pixie, no point in arguing with the guru when you know zilch.

[pixelthis]

Pixelthat... Here are the parameters for LCD VS PLASMA... LCD wins for BRIGHTNESS!! Kinda like a speaker who is LOUDER... as you know, loud is NOT necessarily BETTER. LCD Wins for NON reflectiveness of backround LIGHT... But this is about as far as LCD wins OVER PLASMA... The most Difficult Color for a TV to reproduce is BLACK.. If a tv can do black well then all is GREAT!.. Plasmas excell at producing Black.. Plasma also can do fast motion without pixelation or bluring.. Plasma Wins here.. The best colors are reproduced with plasma not lcd because of their problems with blacks.. Sitting off center is a problem with LCD and NOT with PLASMA.. Plasmas will go over 30 years of 8 hours per day use before they get half as bright as new.. So if one has no control over light and does not want reflections on the screen, go with LCD, however, if one wants the BEST PICTURE REPRODUCTION, and can control the light, then it is the PLASMA!!!!


Plasma has average black level, not much better than LCD.
MOTION BLURING IS A THING OF THE PAST WITH NEW LCD SETS.
How many times do I have to say that? Go take a look at one, will you?
ALSO PLASMA has serious burn-in issues, thats why EVERY plasma requires a break-in period and STILL cant be run at full steam, and has several burn-in circuits.
Do you think that they would go to the lenghts and expense of putting anti-burn in circuits
if it wasnt a problem? Not to mention that some degrade the picture with jiggles, and cut the brightness in half sometimes.
PLASMA is a seriously flawed and over complicated tech that doesnt warrant the trouble for a very slight PQ increase, one that will disapear as LCD gets better.:1:

[pixelthis]

Pixie, no point in arguing with the guru when you know zilch.
guru!!!!


ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
I have been doing this stuff for fourty years!
Since before the so-called "guru was a wet spot on his mamas side of the bed.
LISTEN TO your idiot "guru" and follow him RIGHT OVER THE SIDE why dont you?:1:

[Woochifer]

Plasma has average black level, not much better than LCD.

Wrong again. And professional calibrations prove this time and time again. You're just making crap up now. Or are you going to refer to that 10-year old review again as proof that today's plasmas have inferior black levels and come in metal containers? :lol:


MOTION BLURING IS A THING OF THE PAST WITH NEW LCD SETS.

More delusional ignorance -- no surprise coming from you. 60 Hz LCD TVs are still on the market, right? NONE of the ones that I've seen tested can render more than 400 lines on a moving image (in fact, HDTV Test's average benchmark measurement on 60 Hz LCDs is 300 lines). Are you saying that there's no difference between sub-SD resolution and HD resolution, cuz it sure sounds like you're making that claim given how 60 Hz LCD TVs measure.

If 60 Hz LCD tech was the end all as you claim, then how come manufacturers keep adding features like 120 Hz motion interpolation and LED backlighting to improve the motion resolution, if motion resolution was never an issue to begin with?


How many times do I have to say that?

Only you can answer that question, given that repeating yourself is the only thing you got left.


Go take a look at one, will you?

I already did. That's why I chose not to go with LCD.


ALSO PLASMA has serious burn-in issues,

Not according to Gary Gerson (aka The HD Guru), who tested 125 HDTVs over the past year.

http://hdguru.com/hdtv-christmas-buyers-guide-and-recommended-models-part-ii/323/


No Burn-in (image retention) when the HDTV is adjusted for in-home viewing (as opposed to showroom mode, based on results of tests of 2008 models).


thats why EVERY plasma requires a break-in period and STILL cant be run at full steam,

Of course it CAN be run at "full steam" it will just look like a crappy LCD TV if you do. The recommended break in settings are almost identical to the calibrated settings to begin with, so it's hardly even worth mentioning.


Do you think that they would go to the lenghts and expense of putting anti-burn in circuitsif it wasnt a problem?

Ever wonder why burn-in is no longer an issue? You just answered your own question!
Problem + Solution = Problem Solved :idea:


Not to mention that some degrade the picture with jiggles, and cut the brightness in half sometimes.

More proof positive that you don't know squat about anything other than plasma sets made 10 years ago. Panasonic plasmas don't even come with an image shifting mode, so the only jiggles are in your head. :out: And 50% brightness is already above the calibrated levels on a Panasonic.


PLASMA is a seriously flawed and over complicated tech that doesnt warrant the trouble for a very slight PQ increase, one that will disapear as LCD gets better.:1:

Slight PQ increase only because you think there's no difference between today's HDTVs and that 20-year old battery powered LCD portable that you speak so fondly of. :1:

[Woochifer]

Ah, I see that pix has resorted to the wet mama references :out: ... part of his normal pattern when repeating himself no longer works! When he starts mixing in crack ho references and his bizarre fantasies about people's family members, then you know he's really desperate! (Of course, he did talk about bowling alley whores on this thread, which is something new for once.)

[GMichael]

Funny, I feel the same way about you.


One small difference though. I'm actually trying to be funny.:hand:

[GMichael]

Both have GREAT PICTURES... "Can't we all jest GET-AlONG?"

Agreed, but aren't you having fun reading this thread? :idea:

[pixelthis]

Both have GREAT PICTURES... "Can't we all jest GET-AlONG?"


I have no problem with plasma fanboys and their crappy tech, just getting the word out
so I have gloating rights when these suckers go tits up...
AS THEY WILL.
These guys wont be able to complain that nobody told them about just how fragil this junk is, while they stare at a blank screen and dust off the ol AM/FM radio:1:

[Woochifer]

I have no problem with plasma fanboys and their crappy tech, just getting the word out
so I have gloating rights when these suckers go tits up...
AS THEY WILL.
These guys wont be able to complain that nobody told them about just how fragil this junk is, while they stare at a blank screen and dust off the ol AM/FM radio:1:

:out:

[nightflier]

Pix, it seems your biggest beef with Plasma is really the burn-in issue. And I just don't think that is an issue. I have seen 4-5 year old plasmas at friend's homes (they were purchased back when the technology was not as advanced), and even though the TVs have been on for hours a day, there is no burn-in. I actually checked several, and not one has any evidence of burn-in, not even from the logos on sports channels. Aren't you blowing this a bit out of proportion?

[Woochifer]

Pix, it seems your biggest beef with Plasma is really the burn-in issue. And I just don't think that is an issue. I have seen 4-5 year old plasmas at friend's homes (they were purchased back when the technology was not as advanced), and even though the TVs have been on for hours a day, there is no burn-in. I actually checked several, and not one has any evidence of burn-in, not even from the logos on sports channels. Aren't you blowing this a bit out of proportion?

When does pix NOT blow things out of proportion?

He rants about how the anti-burn in technologies on newer plasma TVs proves that burn in remains a problem! :out: If this was 20 years ago, he would have whined about how anti-roll circuits proved that vertical hold was still a problem with CRTs. Or how the inclusion of airbags and anti-lock brakes proved that cars were more dangerous than ever. :lol:

[GMichael]

I liked how he would carry on about how useless 1080p was until he bought a TV with it. Now it's 1080p or it's worthless.
If he ever gets a plasma, LCD will be dead.:Yawn:

[pixelthis]

When does pix NOT blow things out of proportion?

He rants about how the anti-burn in technologies on newer plasma TVs proves that burn in remains a problem! :out: If this was 20 years ago, he would have whined about how anti-roll circuits proved that vertical hold was still a problem with CRTs. Or how the inclusion of airbags and anti-lock brakes proved that cars were more dangerous than ever. :lol:


Your analogy is flawed and nonsensical, like the rest of your thinking process.
FOR ONE THING, "vertical roll was always a problem, one that defied solution
sometimes, at least until the advent of digital circuits.
And cars are more dangerous than ever, bcause they go faster, anti-lock brakes
and airbags just help slow down the carnage.
With plasma you have a choice, you dont have to put up with the mess,
using "anti-burn in" circuits that jiggle the picture and cycle the picture on and off , cutting
overalll brightness.:1:

[pixelthis]

Pix, it seems your biggest beef with Plasma is really the burn-in issue. And I just don't think that is an issue. I have seen 4-5 year old plasmas at friend's homes (they were purchased back when the technology was not as advanced), and even though the TVs have been on for hours a day, there is no burn-in. I actually checked several, and not one has any evidence of burn-in, not even from the logos on sports channels. Aren't you blowing this a bit out of proportion?


It might seem that way, but burn-in is just part of the problem.
My main beef with Plasma is its total lack of, for want of a better word...elegance.
Have you noticed that most plasma fanboys are from a non-tech background?
I look at a plasma set and I see not an integrated electronic device but a rube goldburg
POS filled with "fixes" for problems that still exist.
LCD is very elegant, electricity flows and molecules line up, blocking light.
Turn off the current and light gets through.
Thats it. This tech is "flawed" also, but it has a more robust design and is way more reliable and practical, and there is no so-called "advantage" of plasma that LCD cant beat.
I was there when Plasma started, I remember the motivations behind creating it,
to give the world (finally) the flat screen TV they have always wanted.
IT WAS THOUGHT that we would never have the computer power to make a large LCD set work, so plasma was born.
The first models had to be shipped in steel cases and half still didnt make it.
Every reviewer thought the black level and overall pic sucked.
most HT enthusiasists prefered DLP or the old standby, CRT.
kiss, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID is something that was drilled into me in class,
and plasma violates its at every step.
With LCD you get rid of two bugaboos of CRT, a heavy tube and PHOSPER.
ANY device with phosper is going to have problems with burn-in and color purity, because as phosper ages it changes, and as its hit with electrons (to make it glow) it eventually wears out.
This "estimate" of 100,000 hours as the lifespan of a plasma set is not rediculous,
ITS REDICULOUS SQUARED.
Ever have a TV that has lasted that long? I thought so.
And then there is the 30,000 volt power supply, which causes several million electrodes to spark into a plasma, lighting a phosper, its just a rediculous way to do business.
We dont have the tech to build such a thing, know why its a plasma instead of a vaccume,
like a "regular" CRT? Because we cant build a thin glass envelope that will hold a vaccume,
so you need the plasma gas to conduct the electrons to light the phosper, supposedly
we can build a thin glass envelope that can hold a gas/plasma, just dont tell that
to the several thousand who had the gas escape from theirs a few years back(another
"problem" fixed)!!!
But my biggest problem with plasma is that it doesnt need to exist, its PQ "advantage"
is the only thing even fanboys can cite as a reason to buy it, and if the great unwashed could read those specs they would see that they are "slight".
The massive problems of this tech are not worth the very slight advantage in PQ.
I have seen this nonsense before, except with audiophiles instead of videophiles.
A turntable sounds better than a CD player. WHY?
because! THATS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW
a SET (single end triode) which was at its peak in 1934 is better
than a modern F.E.T
Why? BECAUSE! A you need to know!
And plasma is clinging to the past just as much, a tube with phosper that gets hit by electrons to make it glow, same thing we have been doing with CRT for fiftyeight
years.
Only now we have made "advances" that will enable a phosper based device to last a
100,000 hours, when we have never been able to get a much simpler CRT to last half that long.
BUT my main problem, is that a bunch of really decent people will get burned by this crap. And most dont have the money or time to waste .
PLASMA FANBOYS OF THE WORLD UNITE.
in one kinghell of an class-action lawsuit:1:

[Woochifer]

Your analogy is flawed and nonsensical, like the rest of your thinking process.

Only because you don't have a thinking process. :out:


FOR ONE THING, "vertical roll was always a problem, one that defied solution
sometimes, at least until the advent of digital circuits.

And if something SOLVES a problem, why obsess over it? Oh, that's right, in your view, the world has stopped just because you re-read a 10-year old article about plasma TVs coming in metal containers. "IF IT HAPPENED 10 YEARS AGO IT MUST STILL BE TRUE!" :lol:


And cars are more dangerous than ever, bcause they go faster, anti-lock brakes
and airbags just help slow down the carnage.

Right, so just because today's cars CAN go faster means that they are more dangerous, even though the actual speed limits haven't changed since the 55 limit was eliminated? How can cars be more dangerous if the actual speeds that they are driven haven't changed? Oh, and BTW the actual highway death rates are far lower today than they were 20 years ago -- not surprising that in your pixie logic, decreases in highway death counts are caused by more dangerous cars! :out:


With plasma you have a choice, you dont have to put up with the mess,
using "anti-burn in" circuits that jiggle the picture and cycle the picture on and off , cutting
overalll brightness.:1:

And even you admitted that this is invisible to the naked eye, so what is there to put up with, except the ghosts of those 10 year old plasma articles dancing around in your head? :idea:

[Woochifer]

It might seem that way, but burn-in is just part of the problem.

Only to you because your info's a decade past its expiration date.


My main beef with Plasma is its total lack of, for want of a better word...elegance.
Have you noticed that most plasma fanboys are from a non-tech background?

Have you noticed that pix keeps repeating himself, even after his BS gets debunked with more current information? :lol:


LCD is very elegant, electricity flows and molecules line up, blocking light.

Yet, not elegant enough to overcome inherent flaws in motion resolution, contrast levels, and the need for expensive band-aids like 100/120 Hz motion interpolation and sequential backlighting to bring the performance to within spitting distance of other techs.


The first models had to be shipped in steel cases and half still didnt make it.
Every reviewer thought the black level and overall pic sucked.

And today (check the calendar, this ain't the 90s no more), plasma sets are shipped in the same cardboard containers as every other TV, and the three-year failure rate on Panasonic plasmas is 2%, which surpasses all LCD brands. And if you actually get around to reading current articles, you'd know that the best rated TVs for black levels and overall picture quality nowadays are the Pioneer plasmas. But, I can see that you'd rather fixate on the past, since that's the only info that conforms to your worldview.


most HT enthusiasists prefered DLP or the old standby, CRT.
kiss, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID is something that was drilled into me in class,
and plasma violates its at every step.
With LCD you get rid of two bugaboos of CRT, a heavy tube and PHOSPER.
ANY device with phosper is going to have problems with burn-in and color purity, because as phosper ages it changes, and as its hit with electrons (to make it glow) it eventually wears out.
This "estimate" of 100,000 hours as the lifespan of a plasma set is not rediculous,
ITS REDICULOUS SQUARED.
Ever have a TV that has lasted that long? I thought so.
And then there is the 30,000 volt power supply, which causes several million electrodes to spark into a plasma, lighting a phosper, its just a rediculous way to do business.
We dont have the tech to build such a thing, know why its a plasma instead of a vaccume,
like a "regular" CRT? Because we cant build a thin glass envelope that will hold a vaccume,
so you need the plasma gas to conduct the electrons to light the phosper, supposedly
we can build a thin glass envelope that can hold a gas/plasma, just dont tell that
to the several thousand who had the gas escape from theirs a few years back(another
"problem" fixed)!!!

"We sell both plasma and LCD screens. I personally think plasma is better technology and picture quality" - William Wang, Founder of Vizio



But my biggest problem with plasma is that it doesnt need to exist, its PQ "advantage"
is the only thing even fanboys can cite as a reason to buy it, and if the great unwashed could read those specs they would see that they are "slight".
The massive problems of this tech are not worth the very slight advantage in PQ.

Average measured motion resolution of 1080p 60 Hz LCD HDTVs = 330 lines
Average measured motion resolution of 1080p plasma HDTVs = >800 lines

142% difference in resolution = "slight"?

Yet, to you the 50% difference in resolution between 1080p and 720p = "night and day"?


BUT my main problem, is that a bunch of really decent people will get burned by this crap. And most dont have the money or time to waste .
PLASMA FANBOYS OF THE WORLD UNITE.
in one kinghell of an class-action lawsuit:1:

:out:

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]Only to you because your info's a decade past its expiration date.



Have you noticed that pix keeps repeating himself, even after his BS gets debunked with more current information? :lol:



Yet, not elegant enough to overcome inherent flaws in motion resolution, contrast levels, and the need for expensive band-aids like 100/120 Hz motion interpolation and sequential backlighting to bring the performance to within spitting distance of other techs.



And today (check the calendar, this ain't the 90s no more), plasma sets are shipped in the same cardboard containers as every other TV, and the three-year failure rate on Panasonic plasmas is 2%, which surpasses all LCD brands. And if you actually get around to reading current articles, you'd know that the best rated TVs for black levels and overall picture quality nowadays are the Pioneer plasmas. But, I can see that you'd rather fixate on the past, since that's the only info that conforms to your worldview.



"We sell both plasma and LCD screens. I personally think plasma is better technology and picture quality" - William Wang, Founder of Vizio




Average measured motion resolution of 1080p 60 Hz LCD HDTVs = 330 lines
Average measured motion resolution of 1080p plasma HDTVs = >800 lines

142% difference in resolution = "slight"?

Yet, to you the 50% difference in resolution between 1080p and 720p = "night and day"?



FINALLY FOUND A PIC OF YOU WOOCH:1:

[pixelthis]

SO wang is a scoundrel but you quote him when it serves your purposes.
Not only a dysfunctional know nothing looney but a hypocrite.
Heres the bare bones of it all, people who know what they are talking about tend to like
a certain kind of tech, and for a reason, not just to argue.
At the end of the day I will be watching my monitor, and you will be listening to the radio while you curse your new paperweight:1:

[Woochifer]

FINALLY FOUND A PIC OF YOU WOOCH:1:

What, couldn't find any pictures of those bowling alley whores or crack hos that you so often speak of? Given that you took the time and effort to dig up and post this picture, I'm beginning to question whether you truly obsess over skanky women, or just have a fetish thing about inanimate objects that you haven't shared with us yet? I presume that you shot that pic from your personal collection? :skep:


SO wang is a scoundrel but you quote him when it serves your purposes.
Not only a dysfunctional know nothing looney but a hypocrite.

I bring up William Wang only because you were once Vizio's fanboi numero uno, until I began posting his quote. Must hurt to get jilted by someone into which you invested so much of your self-worth! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Heres the bare bones of it all, people who know what they are talking about tend to like
a certain kind of tech, and for a reason, not just to argue.

I've laid out plenty of reasons why I chose plasma over LCD. The difference is that my reasoning reflects the CURRENT state of the market, not a bunch of fuzzily recalled reviews from 10 years ago.


At the end of the day I will be watching my monitor, and you will be listening to the radio while you curse your new paperweight

Like I said before, the failure rate on your TV is 3X greater than mine. Of course, in that backwards pixie logic of yours, you probably think you got over on someone if they challenge you to a game of Russian roulette and hand you 3 bullets while taking only 1 for themselves! :out:

P.S. Don't force me to post the real truth about Vizio's warranty and out-of-warranty support policies. If anyone should be concerned about having a paperweight in their living room in the near future, it's you and anyone else who cheaps out and buys an off-brand HDTV. :hand: Oh and BTW, Panasonic's warranty service includes delivery of a loaner TV if a repair cannot be done on-site. No radio listening required here, OTOH a broken Vizio is an entirely different story ...:1:

[pixelthis]

What, couldn't find any pictures of those bowling alley whores or crack hos that you so often speak of? Given that you took the time and effort to dig up and post this picture, I'm beginning to question whether you truly obsess over skanky women, or just have a fetish thing about inanimate objects that you haven't shared with us yet? I presume that you shot that pic from your personal collection? :skep:



I bring up William Wang only because you were once Vizio's fanboi numero uno, until I began posting his quote. Must hurt to get jilted by someone into which you invested so much of your self-worth! :lol: :lol: :lol:



I've laid out plenty of reasons why I chose plasma over LCD. The difference is that my reasoning reflects the CURRENT state of the market, not a bunch of fuzzily recalled reviews from 10 years ago.



Like I said before, the failure rate on your TV is 3X greater than mine. Of course, in that backwards pixie logic of yours, you probably think you got over on someone if they challenge you to a game of Russian roulette and hand you 3 bullets while taking only 1 for themselves! :out:

P.S. Don't force me to post the real truth about Vizio's warranty and out-of-warranty support policies. If anyone should be concerned about having a paperweight in their living room in the near future, it's you and anyone else who cheaps out and buys an off-brand HDTV. :hand: Oh and BTW, Panasonic's warranty service includes delivery of a loaner TV if a repair cannot be done on-site. No radio listening required here, OTOH a broken Vizio is an entirely different story ...:1:

Vizio has the same thing.
OH and I read mersons site, where you get most of your intel, you need to know that that site is mostly propaganda , not surprizing since it gets most of its support from
(drumroll please) PANASONIC(tada!).
I guess those "real truths" you might be "forced" to post (I'M SO SCARED) come from the current article on that site, which I have just read.
Which is MORE PANASONIC BACKED PROPAGANDA.
Your deal is up, wooch, I AM ON TO YOU.:1:

[Woochifer]

Vizio has the same thing.
OH and I read mersons site, where you get most of your intel, you need to know that that site is mostly propaganda , not surprizing since it gets most of its support from
(drumroll please) PANASONIC(tada!).
I guess those "real truths" you might be "forced" to post (I'M SO SCARED) come from the current article on that site, which I have just read.
Which is MORE PANASONIC BACKED PROPAGANDA.
Your deal is up, wooch, I AM ON TO YOU.:1:

You're onto me? Yup, I'm the one with the facts, and you're the one with nothing left but lies and personal attacks. :cool:

Most of its support from Panasonic? That explains why Merson's list of recommended TVs includes units from Toshiba, Samsung, LG, Pioneer, and Sony! Now, you're just lying through your teeth. If his site was nothing more than Panasonic propaganda, then why does his site recommend TVs from other makes? Typical pix -- when the facts aren't on your side, just make crap up and attack the messenger. :rolleyes:

Gary merson is an independent reviewer, and he's one of the acknowledged experts in HDTV testing. You want to attack his credentials? Take it up with Sound & Vision, Home Theater, CNET, Popular Science, or any of the other publications that have published his work. Given that he tested 125 HDTVs in 2008 alone, he certainly speaks more authoritatively to what's out there right now, than your hazy biased recollections of articles written in the last century. :out:

And he's not the only reviewer that has written about the poor motion resolution performance on 60 Hz LCD TVs.

Face it, Merson's current article highlighting Vizio's pathetic warranty policies directly compares the ACTUAL wording from the Toshiba and Vizio warranties, and contacts he made with representatives from both companies. Any issues you have with that article should be directed at Vizio for having such a substandard warranty.

The information in that article, along with his previous article on "disposable" HDTVs, exposes exactly why an off-brand TV is such a risky purchase. All your wishful thinking about other people's TVs turning into paperweights is pretty sad, considering that a Vizio is 3X likelier to fail in the first place. And Vizio didn't make ANY spare parts available for any of their models made before July of last year.

Okay Kids, let's review! Higher failure rate and inconsistent spare parts availability on a Vizio, yet here we have our little pixie talking about other people's TVs turning into paperweights? Yep, you should be scared! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[f0rge]

go with plasma, better overall picture.

despite what Pix says burn-in is not a problem, i'm almost embarrassed to admit it but i have over 500 hours of video gaming on my panny with zero problems so far, i dont think you're going to find a better burn in test than that.

[pixelthis]

go with plasma, better overall picture.

despite what Pix says burn-in is not a problem, i'm almost embarrassed to admit it but i have over 500 hours of video gaming on my panny with zero problems so far, i dont think you're going to find a better burn in test than that.

I have only had my set for 4 or 5 months and have well over a thousand surfing the web so dont be embarassed.
And my main problem isnt "burn in", I HAVE RECENTLY FOUND OUT that "wooch"
has been getting his "stats" (most of which are rediculous) from a propaganda site
BACKED BY PANASONIC.
The main purpose of this "site" is to slam Vizio it seems, in one "test" a VIZIO COMES OUT WITH THE RESOLUTION (300 LINES) of a cheap mexican made set from the early nineties.
This site is trimmed with PANNY BLUE even, hardly an objective source of info.
If you think plasmas' (very) slight PQ improvement (which I DONT THINK IS REALLY THERE) is worth the trouble, then more power to ya.
BUT 500 hours is a blip really, when you get 5,000 hrs on that sucker get back to me.
Please:1:

[GMichael]

But Pixy,
It wasn't all that long ago that you were saying that Panasonic was the Toyota of the electronics world and everything else was a Kia.

[Worf101]

Man oh man oh man... What tasty goodness.

Da Worfster

[f0rge]

If you think plasmas' (very) slight PQ improvement (which I DONT THINK IS REALLY THERE) is worth the trouble, then more power to ya.


plasmas are also cheaper for the same size...hmmm cheaper AND better PQ? Doesn't take a high school diploma to figure this out...



BUT 500 hours is a blip really, when you get 5,000 hrs on that sucker get back to me.


Maybe you didn't understand me, not 500 total, 500 hours of video gaming. I couldn't guess the total hours. If 500 hours of video gaming isn't enough to prove that burn-in is not a problem, then what is?

For the record i have nothing against Vizio, I have an old Samsung LCD in the bedroom that any Vizio made in the last 3 years would walk circles around. At the same time dont tell me that Vizio compares to top-end sets like Panasonic and Sony and Pioneer.

[Woochifer]

And my main problem isnt "burn in", I HAVE RECENTLY FOUND OUT that "wooch"
has been getting his "stats" (most of which are rediculous) from a propaganda site
BACKED BY PANASONIC.

As usual, when the facts aren't on your side, you keep repeatedly attacking the messenger. Doesn't change the fact that Gary Merson performed these same tests on 125 different TVs this year, and the 60 Hz LCDs failed miserably on the motion resolution test. :rolleyes:

http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2008-resolution-tests-125-hdtvs.pdf

Like I asked you before, if HD Guru is a Panasonic propaganda site, then why does that site list Pioneer, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and Hitachi TVs among their recommended models? And if the tests are biased in favor of Panasonic, then why do nearly all of the Panasonics fail that site's 3:2 pulldown test, and rate the Pioneer plasmas' motion resolution higher? Oh, but you can't let logic get in the way of a good lie, now can you? :cool:


The main purpose of this "site" is to slam Vizio it seems, in one "test" a VIZIO COMES OUT WITH THE RESOLUTION (300 LINES) of a cheap mexican made set from the early nineties.

Actually, one of the Vizios tested with a motion resolution of 840 lines (it was a plasma) ... if that site is so biased against Vizio, then why would ANY Vizio do well on ANY test? :idea:

Note that most of the 60 Hz 1080p LCD tested by the HD Guru and HDTV Test sites displayed less than 400 lines of resolution on the motion resolution test, while every 1080p plasma displayed more than 800. So, if Gary Merson is sssssoooooo biased against Vizio, then why do nearly all of the 60 Hz LCDs that he tested perform just as badly?

That site rightfully slams Vizio and OTHER OFF-BRAND TVs for their pathetic warranty policies. Making customers pay $300 for a replacement container and two-way shipping if the TV breaks while under warranty, not making spare parts available for older models, etc. Vizio had to modify their warranty policy after word got out about this, yet even now it doesn't even come close to the support that customers get from LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic, Toshiba, and others. This information came DIRECTLY from company officials and the warranty itself, which BTW you can read for yourself (unless you're waiting for it to age 10 years before deeming the info valid). So, I take it that Vizio's spokespersons are liars and Panasonic propagandists as well? :Yawn:


This site is trimmed with PANNY BLUE even, hardly an objective source of info.

Like I told you before, try reading the WORDS, rather than obsessing about COLOR conspiracies! :out:


If you think plasmas' (very) slight PQ improvement (which I DONT THINK IS REALLY THERE) is worth the trouble, then more power to ya.

Yeah, you're also the one who watched a portable battery-powered LCD TV for 20 years -- says a lot about your standards! :cool:

[Woochifer]

plasmas are also cheaper for the same size...hmmm cheaper AND better PQ? Doesn't take a high school diploma to figure this out...

I think you're giving pix WAY too much credit here! :cool:

[Woochifer]

But Pixy,
It wasn't all that long ago that you were saying that Panasonic was the Toyota of the electronics world and everything else was a Kia.

Don't you know he was really saying that Toyotas are nothing more than paperweights, and that Kias are the Vizios of the car world? :cool:

[GMichael]

Don't you know he was really saying that Toyotas are nothing more than paperweights, and that Kias are the Vizios of the car world? :cool:

So, if I were to stand on my head and spin very fast I might understand him better?:sosp:

[Woochifer]

So, if I were to stand on my head and spin very fast I might understand him better?:sosp:

Upside down is a start, and I thought maybe going backwards would also work. But, in the end, getting into that mindset would just takes a lot of outside chemical intervention! :D

[pixelthis]

As usual, when the facts aren't on your side, you keep repeatedly attacking the messenger. Doesn't change the fact that Gary Merson performed these same tests on 125 different TVs this year, and the 60 Hz LCDs failed miserably on the motion resolution test. :rolleyes:


THESE "tests " are set up so that LCD sets would fail.
The whole purpose of these bogus "tests" IS TO SLAM LCD AND PRAISE PLASMA


http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2008-resolution-tests-125-hdtvs.pdf


Like I asked you before, if HD Guru is a Panasonic propaganda site, then why does that site list Pioneer, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, and Hitachi TVs among their recommended models? And if the tests are biased in favor of Panasonic, then why do nearly all of the Panasonics fail that site's 3:2 pulldown test, and rate the Pioneer plasmas' motion resolution higher? Oh, but you can't let logic get in the way of a good lie, now can you? :cool:

YEAH, PICK OUT SOMETHING that laymen have trouble picking up on ( like 3:2)
pulldown, and that wont even matter in the future because BLU and ither formats have done away with it.
AGAIN, the Pioneers "motion resolution"(something made up) is better because
(drum roll) ITS A PLASMA .




Actually, one of the Vizios tested with a motion resolution of 840 lines (it was a plasma) ... if that site is so biased against Vizio, then why would ANY Vizio do well on ANY test? :idea:

It did well BECAUSE ITS A PLASMA !!!
The whole purpose of these bogus "rests" is to show how GOOD plasma is opposed
to LCD, the whole purpose OF THIS BULLS**T is to slam LCD and show how great plasma is!
Why, plasma is SOOOO good that even a Vizio plasma is good!!!
WOW



Note that most of the 60 Hz 1080p LCD tested by the HD Guru and HDTV Test sites displayed less than 400 lines of resolution on the motion resolution test, while every 1080p plasma displayed more than 800. So, if Gary Merson is sssssoooooo biased against Vizio, then why do nearly all of the 60 Hz LCDs that he tested perform just as badly?


BECAUSE LCD IS WHAT HES SLAMMING!!!

AND this "test" is totally bogus.
Like I said in another post, do you seriously expect ANYBODY at least halfway objective to beleive...ON ITS FACE...
That a modern monitor with 1080p, motion adaptive deinterlace, etc, would have the resolution of a cheap Mexican made SD CRT set
FROM THE FRIGGIN EARLY NINETIES!!!!!

This is the problem with propaganda, the propagandists tend to get carried away



That site rightfully slams Vizio and OTHER OFF-BRAND TVs for their pathetic warranty policies. Making customers pay $300 for a replacement container and two-way shipping if the TV breaks while under warranty, not making spare parts available for older models, etc. Vizio had to modify their warranty policy after word got out about this, yet even now it doesn't even come close to the support that customers get from LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic, Toshiba, and others. This information came DIRECTLY from company officials and the warranty itself, which BTW you can read for yourself (unless you're waiting for it to age 10 years before deeming the info valid). So, I take it that Vizio's spokespersons are liars and Panasonic propagandists as well? :Yawn:




Like I told you before, try reading the WORDS, rather than obsessing about COLOR conspiracies! :out:

TRY BEING HONEST , instead of the govt liar you really are.
Why is teh panny blue on this site so important?
Because this is the way marketing wonks think.
THEY just cant resist putting that color up their, even at the risk of blowing their cover.
They are JUST SOOOO PROUD!
This is also a subcouncious prod toward Panasonic




YOUR web site is BACKED by PANASONIC !!!
It even has PANASONIC BLUE TRIM on the home page!!!

It might "reccomend" certain sets in passing BUT ONLY IN PASSING.
It spends a great deal of time talking about how great panasonic is in general AND plasma in paticular.
Panasonic opened a plasma panel plant just when the market for plasma was dying...
guess this propaganda site was their response.
Notice how they are slamming VIZIO in almost every article, guess being the number one seller of flat panels is making the big boys nervous.
Might have to start charging a decent price for their stuff.
Free enterprize is a ***** aint it?
You can put out a quality product at a fair price...
OR SLANDER THE OTHER GUY.
I have seen this sort of thing like forever.
Tell me, when you go to the movies do you read the fake reviews that Sony was putting into their ads... and beleive them?
There is a reason that your skewered "tests" focus on "moving " resolution...
BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING.
In order to measure resolution you need a test pattern.
And in this respect Vizio is right up their with the best.
But you dont sponser a propaganda website and then say the OTHER GUY is better.
kinda defeats the purpose, hum?

As for warrenty support, VIZIO is SIX YEARS OLD!!!
Do you expect a string of warrenty service centers spread across the globe that would cost millions to build and support?
PANASONICS warrenty coverage had BETTER be good, they have been around for
DECADES.
To expect the same from a company that has been around for SIX years is kinda unfair,
even for a liar such as yourself.
Cant tell from personal experience how good OR bad Vizio warrenty support is,
never had one fail, never known (out of the several I know in homes) ANY that has
failed, which is really the best warrenty of all, really.

SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH?
The truth is that Panasonic has built a huge plasma production facility just when sales were dropping off, so this propaganda site...
WHICH SLAMS everything EVEN REMOTELY RELATED TO AN LCD...
is the response.
SHAME ON PANASONIC and shame on YOU.
Panasonic is a good company they dont need to do BULLS**T LIKE THIS,
WHICH I GUESS IS WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF.
They didnt need to do this .
Musta spent a fortune on that Plasma screen factory.:1:

[Duds]

shut up already


THESE "tests " are set up so that LCD sets would fail.
The whole purpose of these bogus "tests" IS TO SLAM LCD AND PRAISE PLASMA


http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2008-resolution-tests-125-hdtvs.pdf



YEAH, PICK OUT SOMETHING that laymen have trouble picking up on ( like 3:2)
pulldown, and that wont even matter in the future because BLU and ither formats have done away with it.
AGAIN, the Pioneers "motion resolution"(something made up) is better because
(drum roll) ITS A PLASMA .





It did well BECAUSE ITS A PLASMA !!!
The whole purpose of these bogus "rests" is to show how GOOD plasma is opposed
to LCD, the whole purpose OF THIS BULLS**T is to slam LCD and show how great plasma is!
Why, plasma is SOOOO good that even a Vizio plasma is good!!!
WOW





BECAUSE LCD IS WHAT HES SLAMMING!!!

AND this "test" is totally bogus.
Like I said in another post, do you seriously expect ANYBODY at least halfway objective to beleive...ON ITS FACE...
That a modern monitor with 1080p, motion adaptive deinterlace, etc, would have the resolution of a cheap Mexican made SD CRT set
FROM THE FRIGGIN EARLY NINETIES!!!!!

This is the problem with propaganda, the propagandists tend to get carried away



That site rightfully slams Vizio and OTHER OFF-BRAND TVs for their pathetic warranty policies. Making customers pay $300 for a replacement container and two-way shipping if the TV breaks while under warranty, not making spare parts available for older models, etc. Vizio had to modify their warranty policy after word got out about this, yet even now it doesn't even come close to the support that customers get from LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic, Toshiba, and others. This information came DIRECTLY from company officials and the warranty itself, which BTW you can read for yourself (unless you're waiting for it to age 10 years before deeming the info valid). So, I take it that Vizio's spokespersons are liars and Panasonic propagandists as well? :Yawn:





TRY BEING HONEST , instead of the govt liar you really are.
Why is teh panny blue on this site so important?
Because this is the way marketing wonks think.
THEY just cant resist putting that color up their, even at the risk of blowing their cover.
They are JUST SOOOO PROUD!
This is also a subcouncious prod toward Panasonic




YOUR web site is BACKED by PANASONIC !!!
It even has PANASONIC BLUE TRIM on the home page!!!

It might "reccomend" certain sets in passing BUT ONLY IN PASSING.
It spends a great deal of time talking about how great panasonic is in general AND plasma in paticular.
Panasonic opened a plasma panel plant just when the market for plasma was dying...
guess this propaganda site was their response.
Notice how they are slamming VIZIO in almost every article, guess being the number one seller of flat panels is making the big boys nervous.
Might have to start charging a decent price for their stuff.
Free enterprize is a ***** aint it?
You can put out a quality product at a fair price...
OR SLANDER THE OTHER GUY.
I have seen this sort of thing like forever.
Tell me, when you go to the movies do you read the fake reviews that Sony was putting into their ads... and beleive them?
There is a reason that your skewered "tests" focus on "moving " resolution...
BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING.
In order to measure resolution you need a test pattern.
And in this respect Vizio is right up their with the best.
But you dont sponser a propaganda website and then say the OTHER GUY is better.
kinda defeats the purpose, hum?

As for warrenty support, VIZIO is SIX YEARS OLD!!!
Do you expect a string of warrenty service centers spread across the globe that would cost millions to build and support?
PANASONICS warrenty coverage had BETTER be good, they have been around for
DECADES.
To expect the same from a company that has been around for SIX years is kinda unfair,
even for a liar such as yourself.
Cant tell from personal experience how good OR bad Vizio warrenty support is,
never had one fail, never known (out of the several I know in homes) ANY that has
failed, which is really the best warrenty of all, really.

SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH?
The truth is that Panasonic has built a huge plasma production facility just when sales were dropping off, so this propaganda site...
WHICH SLAMS everything EVEN REMOTELY RELATED TO AN LCD...
is the response.
SHAME ON PANASONIC and shame on YOU.
Panasonic is a good company they dont need to do BULLS**T LIKE THIS,
WHICH I GUESS IS WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF.
They didnt need to do this .
Musta spent a fortune on that Plasma screen factory.:1:

[Woochifer]

THESE "tests " are set up so that LCD sets would fail.
The whole purpose of these bogus "tests" IS TO SLAM LCD AND PRAISE PLASMA

Wait, I thought it was set up to slam Vizio (even though a Vizio plasma did just fine)! Or rather I thought it was a Panasonic propaganda site set up to slam all other manufacturers (even though many other manufacturers' TVs are recommended on that site)!

Oh right, NOW it's a site set up to slam LCD, EVEN THOUGH one of the highest rated TVs on the motion resolution test is Samsung's top-of-the-line LCD TV (never mind that it costs more than twice as much as a plasma, and has a narrower-than-average viewing angle)!

You're either suffering from short-term memory loss, or just full of crap. Never mind, that's presuming that there's actually some thought behind your bouts of idiocy! :out:


It did well BECAUSE ITS A PLASMA !!!

EXACTLY! Plasma has inherent design advantages that allow it to perform well in tests that y'know measure things relevant to PICTURE QUALITY!


The whole purpose of these bogus "rests" is to show how GOOD plasma is opposed
to LCD, the whole purpose OF THIS BULLS**T is to slam LCD and show how great plasma is!

Whine whine whine. :rolleyes:

It's only bogus to someone whose standard for picture quality is some 20-year old battery powered 5" LCD TV :lol:


AND this "test" is totally bogus.
Like I said in another post, do you seriously expect ANYBODY at least halfway objective to beleive...ON ITS FACE...
That a modern monitor with 1080p, motion adaptive deinterlace, etc, would have the resolution of a cheap Mexican made SD CRT set
FROM THE FRIGGIN EARLY NINETIES!!!!!

Yup, and your 21st Century Vizio can't even match that SD CRT's motion resolution. Facts are facts, your cryin' a friggin' river doesn't change anything. :lol:


This is the problem with propaganda, the propagandists tend to get carried away

Carried away? Case in point, your constant rants about how LCD tech is perfect, Vizio is the best TV ever made, and plasma TVs come shipped in metal containers just because some 10-year old article says so. :out:


TRY BEING HONEST , instead of the govt liar you really are.

Why don't you try reading your warranty, and try calling Vizio to see what their warranty support entails. Their "in-home" service policy is so open-ended, it's a joke.


Why is teh panny blue on this site so important?
Because this is the way marketing wonks think.
THEY just cant resist putting that color up their, even at the risk of blowing their cover.
They are JUST SOOOO PROUD!
This is also a subcouncious prod toward Panasonic

The only "subcouncious" prods are those voices in your head :out:


YOUR web site is BACKED by PANASONIC !!!
It even has PANASONIC BLUE TRIM on the home page!!!

Yuh, and Audioreview is trimmed out in blue. Everything blue is a subconscious plot hatched by Panasonic!!!!! OMG, LOOK AT YOUR BLU-RAYs!!!! They're ALL packaged in BLUE cases!!!!! It's all a conspiracy!!!!!

I think you drew the short straw 100 or so too many times. This whole color conspiracy angle is weak even by your diminished standards.


It might "reccomend" certain sets in passing BUT ONLY IN PASSING.

Right, so that explains why Gary Merson's so heavily handedly praising Samsung's new top-of-the-line LCD TV, and indicating that the sequential LED backlighting used in that set might finally solve the motion resolution issue on LCD TVs. :rolleyes:


It spends a great deal of time talking about how great panasonic is in general AND plasma in paticular.

He's merely confirming the praise that a lot of other people who care about picture quality and product reliability have been giving the Panasonic plasmas for years. Maybe to you, the truth hurts ...


Panasonic opened a plasma panel plant just when the market for plasma was dying...
guess this propaganda site was their response.

The market for plasma has grown in double digits every year since they were first introduced, and this year plasma shipments grew by more than 30 percent. Save your BS for someone who doesn't know any better.


Notice how they are slamming VIZIO in almost every article, guess being the number one seller of flat panels is making the big boys nervous.

Actually, Vizio should be nervous. Sony and Samsung passed them by last year, and their market share has been in decline ever since. Even much-maligned Sharp has made a comeback this year and is now tied with Vizio for #3.


You can put out a quality product at a fair price...
OR SLANDER THE OTHER GUY.

Or in Vizio's case, make a cheap product and pocket hundreds of millions of dollars in profits by not investing in service centers and spare parts distribution. And all the while making customers pay upwards of $500+ on warranty support that other manufacturers provide for free.


There is a reason that your skewered "tests" focus on "moving " resolution...
BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING.
In order to measure resolution you need a test pattern.

Deny deny deny. The Blu-ray test discs with the motion resolution tests are quite real, and being put to use by a growing body of reviewers, including CNET, Home Theater, HDTV Test, etc. Pretend that the motion resolution test doesn't exist doesn't make it so. Even a toddler has a better grasp of distinguishing between reality and make believe than you do.


And in this respect Vizio is right up their with the best.

Only if price is your sole determinant of performance (which obviously it is with you).


As for warrenty support, VIZIO is SIX YEARS OLD!!!
Do you expect a string of warrenty service centers spread across the globe that would cost millions to build and support?

I would expect that at least they would make spare parts available to repair shops so that those sets CAN be fixed if they break. That's a big problem, since they don't do any of their own manufacturing. For any Vizio made before last summer, if a proprietary component like a processor board gets fried, that TV becomes a paperweight if a repair shop can't find another broken Vizio to scavenge. For just about any Panasonic TV made within the past six years, you can order nearly EVERY part thru their website


PANASONICS warrenty coverage had BETTER be good

It is, with on-site service for all service calls. Customer doesn't pay for shipping or hauling if the TV cannot be fixed on site. LG, Samsung, Pioneer, Toshiba, and Hitachi provide the same level of service. Vizio requires that customers talk to a service rep who will then decide whether the TV can be serviced on site. If someone over the phone decides that the TV CANNOT be serviced on-site, then the customer has to ship the TV back to Vizio, and pay for the return shipping charge (at least Vizio doesn't charge $300 for a replacement container and make the customer pay for the outbound shipping anymore).


To expect the same from a company that has been around for SIX years is kinda unfair,
even for a liar such as yourself.

It's only unfair to the bottomfeeders like you who buy a cheap TV, and then find out the hard way that there's more than one reason why off-brand TVs cost less. Calling someone a liar doesn't make it so, especially if it's a liar making that accusation.


Cant tell from personal experience how good OR bad Vizio warrenty support is,
never had one fail, never known (out of the several I know in homes) ANY that has
failed, which is really the best warrenty of all, really.

Merson got the skinny on the warranty support by reading them, and contacting company representatives. That's how he found out how off-brand companies, including Vizio, treat their TVs and customers alike as disposable.

A crappy warranty is still a crappy warranty regardless of how reliable you THINK a company's products are.


SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

Something other than what I read in your posts. :lol:


SHAME ON PANASONIC and shame on YOU.

What would you know about shame, given that you have none. :out:


Panasonic is a good company they dont need to do BULLS**T LIKE THIS,
WHICH I GUESS IS WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF.
They didnt need to do this .

Do what? Manufacture and market HDTVs with class-leading performance and reliability? Yeah, I guess it pisses you off, since it debunks all of the Vizio and LCD fanboy nonsense that you post ad nauseum on this site.

Your attempt to malign Panasonic with this made-up story about HD Guru being their propaganda site is so ridiculously off-the-rails that it sets your bar for make-believe and delusion even lower than ever (and believe me, it's already about as low as anyone can go).

[bobsticks]

I just got back from Sherwin-Williams...who knew there actually was a color called "Panasonic Blue? I'm doing the trim in my kitchen with it.

Of course, the guy behind the counter made me sign a contract stipulating that I'd divest myself of all LCD technology within the house. The conspiracy continues.

[RoadRunner6]

Sorry Danny for the interruption. There is only one thing we can say about Pixelthis:

người ngu dại

Has anyone noticed that Danny Nyugen, the person that started this thread, has never returned after his intitial post? I worked so hard to insert the Vietnamese phrase above about the Pix and no one to appreciate it.

It seems this thread has acquired a life of its own and just keeps going and going and going............even after Boom-Boom Wooch has scored repeated knockout punches.

Oh well, Newton's First Law of Motion states:

".....Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it....."

JM help!

RR6 :22:

[Woochifer]

Has anyone noticed that Danny Nyugen, the person that started this thread, has never returned after his intitial post? I worked so hard to insert the Vietnamese phrase above about the Pix and no one to appreciate it.

I got the translation on it, so the reference didn't go over my head! We'll let pix figure out how to do the Google after he gets past the cut and paste stage. :cool:


It seems this thread has acquired a life of its own and just keeps going and going and going............even after Boom-Boom Wooch has scored repeated knockout punches.

I blame this thread reincarnation on f0rge! The lights were out and the crowd had already gone home, when f0rge rang the bell!

[Woochifer]

I just got back from Sherwin-Williams...who knew there actually was a color called "Panasonic Blue? I'm doing the trim in my kitchen with it.

Of course, the guy behind the counter made me sign a contract stipulating that I'd divest myself of all LCD technology within the house. The conspiracy continues.

:lol: My greenie gun gots the stucks again ... but this post was unstucks worthy! :cool:

[pixelthis]

Has anyone noticed that Danny Nyugen, the person that started this thread, has never returned after his intitial post? I worked so hard to insert the Vietnamese phrase above about the Pix and no one to appreciate it.

It seems this thread has acquired a life of its own and just keeps going and going and going............even after Boom-Boom Wooch has scored repeated knockout punches.

Oh well, Newton's First Law of Motion states:

".....Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it....."

JM help!

RR6 :22:


"BOOM BOOM WOOCH"???
You plasma fanboys do stick together, all in your fantasy world created by skewed stats,
bogus made up "tests" and slapping each other on the back for the next lie which is even bigger than the last one.
Heres the ultimate end of this whole mess.
About three or four years from now the end will start, all of the dead plasma sets and crashes and burns from this flawed tech.
And MY name wont be mentioned, anymore than GROUNDBEEF stated mea culpa
when HIS plasma died a few months ago.
But thats allright, I will be in the cheap seats getting my last laugh.
Along with Panasonic execs who recouped a bundle from a bad investment in a plasma panel plant by using subtle propaganda to sell their flawed tech to idiots.
I will get the last laugh on this one.
Panasonic has a HUGE investment in this tech and somebody has to pay for it,
AND IT WONT BE THEM.
And it DAMN sure wont be ME.
Meanwhile plasma will be more and more marginalized, as sets die the format will lose customers.
In other words plasma is dead

And so is the bank acount of anyone stupid enough to buy one.
I beleive Panny is banking on OLED taking hold beford all of their shiny new screens start dying, and HT enthusiasts, trading up to oled, will stick these things with the second hand market before anyone is the wiser.:1:

[pixelthis]

I just got back from Sherwin-Williams...who knew there actually was a color called "Panasonic Blue? I'm doing the trim in my kitchen with it.

Of course, the guy behind the counter made me sign a contract stipulating that I'd divest myself of all LCD technology within the house. The conspiracy continues.


I guess you learn something every day.
I have bought a LOT of Panasonic products, from a clock radio to a 47" rptv.
This blue color is sort of a trademark of theirs.
Take a look at one of their instruction books, or their packaging.
AND when you find out about this color(which almost anybody who is into this knows about) no need to apologise.:1:

[pixelthis]

shut up already


About the only good thing about plasma is that you bought one.
Maybe that will make you shut up.
But I doubt it.:1:

[pixelthis]

I just got back from Sherwin-Williams...who knew there actually was a color called "Panasonic Blue? I'm doing the trim in my kitchen with it.

Of course, the guy behind the counter made me sign a contract stipulating that I'd divest myself of all LCD technology within the house. The conspiracy continues.

OH btw, since you make a slam like this without checking out your facts first,
guarenteeing total embarassment, check out THIS website.
GEE! WHAT COLOR IS THAT TRIMMING THE SITE.
WHY....ITS A PERFECT MATCH FOR MERSONS SITE!!!
WHAT A CO-INKYDINK!!!
(what a maroon

http://panasonic.net/

[pixelthis]

for those too lazy to check(which is most of you)
here ya go, a few examples.:1:

[pixelthis]

I guess they took the blue pill.
A nice color, but you have to be pretty ballsey to stick it on a propaganda shill site
pushing your agenda .

[Woochifer]

"BOOM BOOM WOOCH"???
You plasma fanboys do stick together, all in your fantasy world created by skewed stats,
bogus made up "tests" and slapping each other on the back for the next lie which is even bigger than the last one.

Actually, you're welcome to roam alone in your delusional world where Vizio makes the best TVs in the world, LCD tech has no flaws whatsoever, and all technology is crap until you buy it, then it magically becomes the greatest innovation ever. Pix is a rightful name for you, cuz you seem to believe in your own magic dust! :out:


About three or four years from now the end will start, all of the dead plasma sets and crashes and burns from this flawed tech.

Only if we get into a nuclear war, in which case, the LCDs would all crash and burn as well.


And MY name wont be mentioned, anymore than GROUNDBEEF stated mea culpa
when HIS plasma died a few months ago.

And that was replaced under warranty, and he still owns and prefers plasma. Are you claiming that LCD TVs NEVER fail? Better hope that's the case, otherwise you'll have to mine through the scrapyards looking for Vizio parts if that TV of yours ever fails.


But thats allright, I will be in the cheap seats getting my last laugh.

Yeah, you need to be pretty high up to pick up a decent signal for that 20-year old battery powered LCD TV of yours. Got a converter box for that thing yet? I hear that there's this analog TV shutdown thingy that happens in February. :cool:


Along with Panasonic execs who recouped a bundle from a bad investment in a plasma panel plant by using subtle propaganda to sell their flawed tech to idiots.

Bad investment? They're simply keeping up with demand, given that plasma sales hit another record last quarter and there are only a few facilities in the world that produce plasma panels. In contrast, you got hundreds of LCD plants that have popped up over the last few years, and they are now getting shuttered right and left because of a supply glut. A lot more investors have lost money on LCD plants.


I will get the last laugh on this one.

Good for you. We've been getting plenty of laughs at your expense in the meantime, and you forget that Panny owners are more likely to get the last laugh on a Vizio owner anyway.


Panasonic has a HUGE investment in this tech and somebody has to pay for it,
AND IT WONT BE THEM.

Oh really? So, someone else cut the check for their facility and R&D?


And it DAMN sure wont be ME.

No surprise given that picture performance isn't a priority with you.


Meanwhile plasma will be more and more marginalized, as sets die the format will lose customers.
In other words plasma is dead

Right, 30+% year to year sales growth in 2008 equals dead. And 3-year failure rates that are lower than LCDs equals marginalized. And higher picture quality means lost customers. Your upside down logic is all too predictable. :out:


And so is the bank acount of anyone stupid enough to buy one.

Let's see, plasma TVs cost less than LCD TVs, have higher picture performance for the money, and the top-rated plasma brands are as reliable or more reliable than the top-rated LCD brands. And fixing a Panasonic, LG, or Samsung plasma doesn't require $500+ in up-front costs for a warranty service. What were you saying about stupid? :cornut:


I beleive Panny is banking on OLED taking hold beford all of their shiny new screens start dying, and HT enthusiasts, trading up to oled, will stick these things with the second hand market before anyone is the wiser.:1:

Yet, the smaller screen sizes where LCDs generate most of their unit sales are where OLED will get introduced first. If anything, it's the LCD owners that will be trading their sets in first.

[Woochifer]

I guess they took the blue pill.
A nice color, but you have to be pretty ballsey to stick it on a propaganda shill site
pushing your agenda .

Let's see, you can't win an argument based on picture quality, market trends, reliability, aftersales support, or value, so all you're left with is arguing with yourself about colors! :out: Maybe you should try arguing about pills, since I can tell you have some expertise there! :1:

[pixelthis]

Let's see, you can't win an argument based on picture quality, market trends, reliability, aftersales support, or value, so all you're left with is arguing with yourself about colors! :out: Maybe you should try arguing about pills, since I can tell you have some expertise there! :1:


Which is MORE than you have.
You have no argument AT ALL that isnt carefully crafted corporate propaganda which is deserving of NO answer since its nothing but concocted

FELKERCARB


And its your money if you want to waste it.
I base my purchases on facts and not on made up corporate BS.:1:

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Woochifer]Actually, you're welcome to roam alone in your delusional world where Vizio makes the best TVs in the world, LCD tech has no flaws whatsoever, and all technology is crap until you buy it, then it magically becomes the greatest innovation ever. Pix is a rightful name for you, cuz you seem to believe in your own magic dust! :out:

you HAVE CERTAINLY BEEN snortin some "magic" dust thats for sure.
Never said that VIZIO was the "best" tv out there, just a good bargain for the money.
You have enough lies of your own to tell without putting them in MY mouth as well




Only if we get into a nuclear war, in which case, the LCDs would all crash and burn as well.


TOTALLY OFF THE DEEP END



And that was replaced under warranty, and he still owns and prefers plasma. Are you claiming that LCD TVs NEVER fail? Better hope that's the case, otherwise you'll have to mine through the scrapyards looking for Vizio parts if that TV of yours ever fails.

all SETS FAIL , INCLUDING panasonic.
AND ESPECIALLY PLASMA, which is fundamentally flawed in its design.
Which you will find out.
You govt beauracrats are so lost in the woods when it comes to technical matters




Yeah, you need to be pretty high up to pick up a decent signal for that 20-year old battery powered LCD TV of yours. Got a converter box for that thing yet? I hear that there's this analog TV shutdown thingy that happens in February. :cool:

I sold the twenty year old casio, but I bet its still running long after that technological monstrosity of yous is scrap.
NO PLASMA in the home has EVER lasted longer than ten years.
And when they first came out few lasted longer than FIVE years



Bad investment? They're simply keeping up with demand, given that plasma sales hit another record last quarter and there are only a few facilities in the world that produce plasma panels. In contrast, you got hundreds of LCD plants that have popped up over the last few years, and they are now getting shuttered right and left because of a supply glut. A lot more investors have lost money on LCD plants.

THERE is a reason few facilities produce plasma panels.
Dont worry about keeping up with demand, this will evaporate in jig time



Good for you. We've been getting plenty of laughs at your expense in the meantime, and you forget that Panny owners are more likely to get the last laugh on a Vizio owner anyway.

NO plasma owner will ever get the "last laugh" over a lcd owner.
LCD is solid state, plasma is a fourth state of matter and highly unstable.
AGAIN, as you will find out






No surprise given that picture performance isn't a priority with you.


Its a huge priority.
THIS has been a common slam from plasma fanboys, but the only reason you and others
prefer a plasma image is that its made up of glowing phospers...
WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE USED TO.
Your main problem with LCD is not its "pq"..
BUT ITS ACCURACY
BTW a friend just got a Sony 46" LCD and says its not as good as his 47" Vizio LCD was
I disagree but Joe sixpack has a different definition of "PQ", AND a main interest is brightness, in which LCD will always win, which is why in the long run LCD will be here
AND PLASMA WONT.
Plasma tv goes from brightness to off and back in a cycle designed to prevent
the supposedly "insignifigant" problem, which cuts their average brightness in half.
AND SINCE YOU CANT run them at anything higher than half brightness their effective briightness is around TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of an LCD.
and THE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS to avoid the susposedly "non existent"
problem of burn-in?
Do you really beleive that the average user will run his set at half for the first 500 hours?
Or stay away from video gamesa?



Right, 30+% year to year sales growth in 2008 equals dead. And 3-year failure rates that are lower than LCDs equals marginalized. And higher picture quality means lost customers. Your upside down logic is all too predictable. :out:


HIGHER PQ is in YOUR mind, most want a brighter picture.
Most will be pissed with a three year rate of "perfection", most want a set to last longer.
GIVE ME MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR PROPAGANDA AND I COULD GET THE SALES of refrigerators in Alaska up 30%
AND my logic is "upside down" because you're a monkey hanging from a tree



Let's see, plasma TVs cost less than LCD TVs, have higher picture performance for the money, and the top-rated plasma brands are as reliable or more reliable than the top-rated LCD brands. And fixing a Panasonic, LG, or Samsung plasma doesn't require $500+ in up-front costs for a warranty service. What were you saying about stupid? :cornut:

NO TV requires 500 bucks for warrenty service.
No plasma (HD) has lasted more than ten years.
AND what was I saying about stupid?
OH YEAH, stupid is as stupid does



Yet, the smaller screen sizes where LCDs generate most of their unit sales are where OLED will get introduced first. If anything, it's the LCD owners that will be trading their sets in first.

AT least they will have sets to trade in, plasma owners will only have junk for the scrap yard

AND you can try to cover it up with redicule(which is all you know) but Mersons site is a Panny propaganda organ , blatantly trimmed in panasonic BLUE

Any child could see this, and I dont dignify propaganda with an answer:1:

[Duds]

I'll be enjoying my plasma long after your Spazio poops the bed....


About the only good thing about plasma is that you bought one.
Maybe that will make you shut up.
But I doubt it.:1:

[Groundbeef]

My new Pioneer is working great, and my old Pioneer is working great as well. And I still don't like LCD.

Happy New Year.

[Woochifer]

Which is MORE than you have.
You have no argument AT ALL that isnt carefully crafted corporate propaganda which is deserving of NO answer since its nothing but concocted

Right, benchmark tests and independent reviews are corporate propaganda, while your shilling and knee-jerk defensiveness about your purchases is oh-so-objective. :out:


And its your money if you want to waste it.
I base my purchases on facts and not on made up corporate BS.:1:

The only fact that's relevant to you is the price, since you're the self-proclaimed "king of the bottomfeeders." All your other "facts" are 10 years past date.


you HAVE CERTAINLY BEEN snortin some "magic" dust thats for sure.

I'm not the one that's got pills on my avatar, Mr. Pixie. :out:


Never said that VIZIO was the "best" tv out there, just a good bargain for the money.

In other words, you believe it's the best TV out there.


You have enough lies of your own to tell without putting them in MY mouth as well

You do enough spewing the falsehoods on your own. I'm certainly not providing any assistance, given how often you shift your supposed facts to fit whatever rant you're making.


TOTALLY OFF THE DEEP END

Perfect description for your posts.


all SETS FAIL , INCLUDING panasonic.
AND ESPECIALLY PLASMA, which is fundamentally flawed in its design.
Which you will find out.
You govt beauracrats are so lost in the woods when it comes to technical matters

And as a hospital rent a cop, all that time staring at scratchy security camera feeds seems to have warped your grasp on what reality looks like.


I sold the twenty year old casio, but I bet its still running long after that technological monstrosity of yous is scrap.

And you miss that thing everyday. 1080p ain't got nothin' on the joys of watching a low res 5" battery powered LCD TV for 4 hours a days, right? :lol:


NO PLASMA in the home has EVER lasted longer than ten years.

And you know the status of EVERY plasma ever made? Links please.


And when they first came out few lasted longer than FIVE years

So that explains why the three-year average failure rates on Panasonic plasmas has been about 2% over the last few years? This ain't the 90s anymore.


THERE is a reason few facilities produce plasma panels.
Dont worry about keeping up with demand, this will evaporate in jig time

And aside from Pioneer's facility, none of the plasma facilities built over the past few years has shut down. Can't say the same thing about LCD, where countless facilities have shut down. Over the last half of 2008, the demand that has evaporated has been with LCD.


NO plasma owner will ever get the "last laugh" over a lcd owner.

Only if you also believe in fire-breathing dragons and unicorns.


LCD is solid state, plasma is a fourth state of matter and highly unstable.
AGAIN, as you will find out

And Vizio's warranty service sucks, as you have a 6% chance of finding out.


Its a huge priority.

But, not a huger priority than the PRICE, right?


THIS has been a common slam from plasma fanboys, but the only reason you and others
prefer a plasma image is that its made up of glowing phospers...
WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE USED TO.

Nope, it's because we know what a good picture is supposed to look like. A cheap 60 Hz LCD ain't that.


Your main problem with LCD is not its "pq"..
BUT ITS ACCURACY

Yeah, LCD is less accurate in most performance measures. That's why it needs all these bandaids like 120 Hz motion interpolation and LED backlighting that significantly bump up the cost. Samsung's top-of-the-line LCD TV with that new sequential LED backlighting setup actually gets the motion resolution right, but it introduces new problems with a narrower viewing angle and still costs twice as much as a plasma TV with equal or superior performance.


Plasma tv goes from brightness to off and back in a cycle designed to prevent
the supposedly "insignifigant" problem, which cuts their average brightness in half.
AND SINCE YOU CANT run them at anything higher than half brightness their effective briightness is around TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of an LCD.

And this phenomenon is invisible to the naked eye, yet you keep obsessing about it. BTW, that brightness cycling has nothing to do with burn-in, but rather power efficiency. And it only kicks in when the image is at near white-out levels, which is rare.

Half brightness on a plasma TV is already at the calibrated reference level, so your points about "effective briightness" are meaningless unless you watch your LCD with the brightness cranked at maximum with the lamp level at 100%.


and THE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS to avoid the susposedly "non existent"
problem of burn-in?
Do you really beleive that the average user will run his set at half for the first 500 hours?
Or stay away from video gamesa?

Regurgitating old talking points about burn in doesn't make it applicable to current TVs. Like I said, the recommended settings for the first 100 hours are already at the calibrated settings, so this is no different from what the settings would be after the first 100 hours.


HIGHER PQ is in YOUR mind, most want a brighter picture.
Most will be pissed with a three year rate of "perfection", most want a set to last longer.
GIVE ME MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR PROPAGANDA AND I COULD GET THE SALES of refrigerators in Alaska up 30%

No one's going to give you anything. The moronic propaganda that you spew on behalf of Vizio and LCD actually has the net effect of turning people away. Panny should actually hire you, given the number of people on this board that have purchased plasmas after reading your logically-challenged nonsense.


AND my logic is "upside down" because you're a monkey hanging from a tree

Nah, your logic is upside down because you ain't got none.


NO TV requires 500 bucks for warrenty service.

Tell that to the Vizio customers who had to shell out $300 for a replacement container, and two-way shipping charges that can total more than $200, depending on where a customer lives. And this is what customers had to pay for WARRANTY service (an out-of-warranty service would cost a LOT more, that is IF Vizio will even repair the set in the first place).

That same repair would cost NOTHING to Panasonic, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Hitachi, and Pioneer customers, because the warranties for those TVs include on-site service for all big screen service calls and no charges for hauling or shipping.


AT least they will have sets to trade in, plasma owners will only have junk for the scrap yard

Like I said, if the average three-year failure rate on a Panasonic plasma is 2%, then you're claiming/hoping that the remaining 98% will fail right after that? Short of Microsoft writing the firmware with a Zune 2K9 bug, 100% product failure just doesn't happen, even with the crappiest off-brand TVs out there. :out:


AND you can try to cover it up with redicule(which is all you know) but Mersons site is a Panny propaganda organ , blatantly trimmed in panasonic BLUE

I know "redicule" because you make it all too easy! :lol:

This idiotic color conspiracy angle of yours is proof positive :cool:


Any child could see this, and I dont dignify propaganda with an answer:1:

In other words, the benchmark test results published by Gary Merson's site, HDTV Test, Home Theater, and CNET are all valid, so the only response you have left is namecalling and some wussy "I dont dignify propaganda with an answer" cop out. Anyone with a functional brain can see that you don't have an answer. :out:

[f0rge]

lol sorry wooch, my bad apparently...

[Woochifer]

lol sorry wooch, my bad apparently...

S'alright, just remember to mind your surroundings next time! :cool:

[pixelthis]

Woochifer]Right, benchmark tests and independent reviews are corporate propaganda, while your shilling and knee-jerk defensiveness about your purchases is oh-so-objective. :out:

You finally got something right.
These "benchmark" tests are about as "independent" as eastern europe during teh cold war.
The way to tell? When they test non-existent stuff like "moving resolution"



The only fact that's relevant to you is the price, since you're the self-proclaimed "king of the bottomfeeders." All your other "facts" are 10 years past date.


Ai least I have some facts and not a bunch of hooey designed to slam LCD TV and promote the lesser form factor of plasma


I'm not the one that's got pills on my avatar, Mr. Pixie. :out:

No but maybe some pills could help you get back in touch with reality.
One of teh drawbackes of lying for the govt, you tend to lose touch with reality



In other words, you believe it's the best TV out there.


THE best per price/quality ratio is SONY, thats why I have had five of them.
BUT VIZIO is a good bargain and the pic is superior to other "value" brands


You do enough spewing the falsehoods on your own. I'm certainly not providing any assistance, given how often you shift your supposed facts to fit whatever rant you're making.


Actually I have been consistent, you are the one pulling stuff outta your A**








And you miss that thing everyday. 1080p ain't got nothin' on the joys of watching a low res 5" battery powered LCD TV for 4 hours a days, right? :lol:

ANYTHING beats shelling out a grand and a half for a paperweight and "watching"
the spare TV in the rec room.




And you know the status of EVERY plasma ever made? Links please.

NOT EVERY PLASMA.
But like the RCA CED video player in the eighties you can examine the tech and pretty much see where its headed.
Basically a plasma is a plasma because they couldnt make a vacume tube thin enough
for flat screen, and they need a medium to transmit the electrons to light the phospers.
Otherwise its the same old CRT that has been around for 60 years, only with newer and bigger problems



So that explains why the three-year average failure rates on Panasonic plasmas has been about 2% over the last few years? This ain't the 90s anymore.

YOU do realize that thats a HIGH figure dontcha.
OF course you dont!



And aside from Pioneer's facility, none of the plasma facilities built over the past few years has shut down. Can't say the same thing about LCD, where countless facilities have shut down. Over the last half of 2008, the demand that has evaporated has been with LCD.


NOT really , its called a depression, and plasma and LCD will be hurt, plasma moreso


Only if you also believe in fire-breathing dragons and unicorns.


WHICH your reports you write are full of, trust me, a lot of people will be laughing at plasma owners in a few years



And Vizio's warranty service sucks, as you have a 6% chance of finding out.

(YAWN)



But, not a huger priority than the PRICE, right?

SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES NOT.
The best "PQ" factor is HAVING A PICTURE...
which you will find out





Nope, it's because we know what a good picture is supposed to look like. A cheap 60 Hz LCD ain't that.

No its not, but a 900 dollar 1080p 24fps LCD with adaptive deinterlace and a whole slew of
features is


Yeah, LCD is less accurate in most performance measures. That's why it needs all these bandaids like 120 Hz motion interpolation and LED backlighting that significantly bump up the cost. Samsung's top-of-the-line LCD TV with that new sequential LED backlighting setup actually gets the motion resolution right, but it introduces new problems with a narrower viewing angle and still costs twice as much as a plasma TV with equal or superior performance.

Not from unbiased performance measures, as opposed to propaganda put out by the company that seeks to be a major plasma producer.
Just a co-inkydink that their "tests" show that LCD sucks eh?
AND 120hz AND led backlighting are hardly "bandaids", they are improvements.
120hs IS coming online , led backlight soom will be.
As for Samsungs new set "finally getting motion res right" this is a total lie that really sounds good, but an LED backlight has nothing to do with resolution, its main advantage is increased black level.
NOTHING has anything to do with "motion resolution" BECAUSE THAT DOESNT EXIST.
And even if it did 1080p is a PROGRESSIVE format, which doesnt suffer from the loss
of res during movement like an interlaced format does, which is why it looks so much better.
Keep shouting the lie that a progressive format loses res during movement, and I will keep shouting LIAR





And this phenomenon is invisible to the naked eye, yet you keep obsessing about it. BTW, that brightness cycling has nothing to do with burn-in, but rather power efficiency. And it only kicks in when the image is at near white-out levels, which is rare.

Yeah, power efficency is anotther thing that plasma sucks at, and the picture cycling is
visible to the naked eye because it cuts efective brightness in HALF.
Talk about band-aid, this one of many designed to try to prevent burn-in, which is STILL a problem.
AND it doesnt "kick in", its a SOP for a plasma set




Half brightness on a plasma TV is already at the calibrated reference level, so your points about "effective briightness" are meaningless unless you watch your LCD with the brightness cranked at maximum with the lamp level at 100%.

AND that cycling of brightness cuts that average "reference " level by half
You cant get something for nothing, with a plasma being off not only half the time but
getting dimmer 25% of the time effective brightness will be cut by more than half.
PRETTY DRACONIAN solution but then again burn in is a BIG problem


Regurgitating old talking points about burn in doesn't make it applicable to current TVs. Like I said, the recommended settings for the first 100 hours are already at the calibrated settings, so this is no different from what the settings would be after the first 100 hours.

Which doesnt change the fact that plasma requires babying in order to prevent burn in.
I get burn in on a CRT that I babied, on a RPTV. Its not fun



No one's going to give you anything. The moronic propaganda that you spew on behalf of Vizio and LCD actually has the net effect of turning people away. Panny should actually hire you, given the number of people on this board that have purchased plasmas after reading your logically-challenged nonsense.


They oughta be paying YOU since you quote their nonsense all of the time
Probably are



Nah, your logic is upside down because you ain't got none.

But I do have a working knowledge of English



Tell that to the Vizio customers who had to shell out $300 for a replacement container, and two-way shipping charges that can total more than $200, depending on where a customer lives. And this is what customers had to pay for WARRANTY service (an out-of-warranty service would cost a LOT more, that is IF Vizio will even repair the set in the first place).

According to YOU, I have never heard of this.
And dont care really, my box is in teh shed with the other boxes from stuff I bought.



That same repair would cost NOTHING to Panasonic, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Hitachi, and Pioneer customers, because the warranties for those TVs include on-site service for all big screen service calls and no charges for hauling or shipping.


SAME with Vizio, why do you keep it up with this lie?
I was worried about this so I called them, they said a local rep would come out and look at tHE set, see what I NEEDED.
They said that if it was under warrenty it would be NO CHARGE.
This isnt even a good lie, ANYBODY can check it by calling Vizio and checking by making up a claim.
GIVE IT UP



Like I said, if the average three-year failure rate on a Panasonic plasma is 2%, then you're claiming/hoping that the remaining 98% will fail right after that? Short of Microsoft writing the firmware with a Zune 2K9 bug, 100% product failure just doesn't happen, even with the crappiest off-brand TVs out there. :out:

NO IT DOESNT, but a poorly designed product will have large failure rates and crappy performance, and the rube goldberg design of the plasma form factor cant be sturdy.
Out of all of the LCD sets we have at work none have failed.
THE Samsung plasma in the lobby disapeared after a year, catastropic failure is all I could get outta maintenence.
Plasma is a car wreck in slow motion, again, as you will find out


I know "redicule" because you make it all too easy! :lol:
This idiotic color conspiracy angle of yours is proof positive :cool:

I want you to say flat out that mersons web site is NOT trimmed in panasonic blue.
GO AHEAD.
Then I will post a link so others can check it out, then a link to Panasonics site.
This is not a "conspriacy of color", its a company that is spouting propaganda in order to save a business venture in light of increasing bad press about what that business venture is peddling...PLASMA.
Sad thing is that they have so little respect for average IQ( in your case well deserved)
that they decorated their propaganda site in their corp colors!!!
TALK about gall




In other words, the benchmark test results published by Gary Merson's site, HDTV Test, Home Theater, and CNET are all valid, so the only response you have left is namecalling and some wussy "I dont dignify propaganda with an answer" cop out. Anyone with a functional brain can see that you don't have an answer. :out:

I do have an "answer", when someone, and I dont care who, is talking about something that is totally bogus... LIKE "MOVING RESOLUTION" I am not going to beleive it any more than I beleive in Santa clause, I DONT CARE WHO IS SPOUTING THE NONSENSE.
Do you know why they didnt have an actual resolution test using an industry standard
test pattern?
Because the results would have been a lot closer, and a lot more accurate
And LCD would have fared a lot better.
Couldnt have that could we?
So quick!
MAKE SOMETHING UP!:1:
'

[bobsticks]

Recognizing that a lot of this is based on your need to bicker with Wooch I'm not gonna wade too deeply into this...

...but, let me ask this: "What if one simply wanted a fantastic picture with smooth motion transmission and the deepest black levels available? Is LCD the best choice for that?"

Intrinsic to every argument that you make is that these are going to be "paperweights" with five or ten years. What if the prospective buyer doesn't care? Personally, I don't plan on having any of the same gear ten years from now...mebbe the Mac amps but what if I catch a deal on some schweet VTL or VAC gear? Who knows, eh...

I can see that masked in the insults is a certain degree of hyperbole but isn't it enough to say that different folks might have differing needs, applications, and concerns?

[GMichael]

Recognizing that a lot of this is based on your need to bicker with Wooch I'm not gonna wade too deeply into this...

...but, let me ask this: "What if one simply wanted a fantastic picture with smooth motion transmission and the deepest black levels available? Is LCD the best choice for that?"

Intrinsic to every argument that you make is that these are going to be "paperweights" with five or ten years. What if the prospective buyer doesn't care? Personally, I don't plan on having any of the same gear ten years from now...mebbe the Mac amps but what if I catch a deal on some schweet VTL or VAC gear? Who knows, eh...

I can see that masked in the insults is a certain degree of hyperbole but isn't it enough to say that different folks might have differing needs, applications, and concerns?

I can see you paddling in the right direction, but for some strange reason, every time you take a stroke, the water propels itself around your hands and pushes on the back of them.:skep: Now you're just going in the opposite direction as desired.:confused5:

[pixelthis]

Recognizing that a lot of this is based on your need to bicker with Wooch I'm not gonna wade too deeply into this...

...but, let me ask this: "What if one simply wanted a fantastic picture with smooth motion transmission and the deepest black levels available? Is LCD the best choice for that?"

Intrinsic to every argument that you make is that these are going to be "paperweights" with five or ten years. What if the prospective buyer doesn't care? Personally, I don't plan on having any of the same gear ten years from now...mebbe the Mac amps but what if I catch a deal on some schweet VTL or VAC gear? Who knows, eh...

I can see that masked in the insults is a certain degree of hyperbole but isn't it enough to say that different folks might have differing needs, applications, and concerns?



All I am asking is to look into as much as possible before making a decision.
Its your money.
My main problem is when propaganda is put up as "fact", and what I have to say is being fought by a multinational company with huge resources.
FOR INSTANCE to hear Wooch talk you would think that plasma has grown 30% a year,
etc, and the format has a "bright" future.
Well, I went into Sams yesterday and they had two plasmas, a 60" pioneer for 2900
and a samsung (forget the price).
The guy working there told me they used to have TEN different models, but they could only stock what sold well.
They had a great display for comparison, with about 12 sets in the open space when you first come in.
There were several LCD sets that looked great with their bright screens and rich color.
On the side were the two plasmas , both were set at half brightness, and compared to the
LCD were quite dim.
Phosper just cant put out enough light.
Baiscally there is no reason to buy a plasma, the only "PQ" advantage is black level and thats because they arent as bright.
And if you look at the facts and then go plasma fine.
But a lot out there dont know that a lot of what they are getting is propaganda.
I dont care if Panasonic has to eat the cost of their new plasma production facility,
they shouldnt have built the damn thing in the first.
They are big, they can afford to eat it.
I too trade sets too often, longetivity isnt a problem, but to joe sixpack who expects these
sets to last the 20 years stated, who finds out one day that that is bogus, well, hes a
lot less able to eat that cost.
But what really gets my goat is Panasonic is better than this, really.
I PAID 80 BUCKS (160 in todays dollars) for a panny clock radio, one of the first with led
display, IN 1988. it still works perfectly 20 years later, still looks new.
I HAVE BOUGHT A LOT OF PANASONIC stuff over the years, a 47" RPTV, you name it,
and to see this type of balderdash is sad really.:1:

[Woochifer]

You finally got something right.
These "benchmark" tests are about as "independent" as eastern europe during teh cold war.
The way to tell? When they test non-existent stuff like "moving resolution"

Non existent only because you're in denial. It's reality to everyone else.



Ai least I have some facts and not a bunch of hooey designed to slam LCD TV and promote the lesser form factor of plasma

Facts only in your fictional world.


No but maybe some pills could help you get back in touch with reality.
One of teh drawbackes of lying for the govt, you tend to lose touch with reality

Like I said, you're the expert with mind-bending pills. :out:


THE best per price/quality ratio is SONY, thats why I have had five of them.
BUT VIZIO is a good bargain and the pic is superior to other "value" brands

In other words, to you Vizio is the best TV around.


Actually I have been consistent,

Yep, consistently wrong.


ANYTHING beats shelling out a grand and a half for a paperweight and "watching"
the spare TV in the rec room.

Like I said before, the likelier paperweight is the TV with a 3X greater failure rate and inconsistent availability of spare parts, and that TV ain't the one in my living room! :cool:

[QUTOE=pixelthis]NOT EVERY PLASMA.[/QUOTE]

In other words, you LIED! (not that anyone's surprised, of course)


But like the RCA CED video player in the eighties you can examine the tech and pretty much see where its headed.
Basically a plasma is a plasma because they couldnt make a vacume tube thin enough
for flat screen, and they need a medium to transmit the electrons to light the phospers.
Otherwise its the same old CRT that has been around for 60 years, only with newer and bigger problems

And yet, the only LCD TVs that can currently display actual HD resolution with a moving image requires a sequential LED backlighting setup that balloons the cost to twice that of a plasma TV and still has a narrower viewing angle.


YOU do realize that thats a HIGH figure dontcha.
OF course you dont!

Only if you believe that the LOWEST failure rate in the industry equates to a HIGH figure. :out:


NOT really , its called a depression, and plasma and LCD will be hurt, plasma moreso

So that explains why the year-to-year plasma shipments increased over the last half of the year, while LCD shipments fell? :out:


(YAWN)

In other words, you never bothered to read the warranty, did you?


SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES NOT.
The best "PQ" factor is HAVING A PICTURE...
which you will find out

Like I said, you take three chances at drawing the short straw for every one draw that I take. Of course, in your upside down logic, you probably think that's a good thing!


No its not, but a 900 dollar 1080p 24fps LCD with adaptive deinterlace and a whole slew of
features is

If you think that a motion resolution of 330 lines or less equates to good picture quality.


Not from unbiased performance measures, as opposed to propaganda put out by the company that seeks to be a major plasma producer.

In other words, you got nothing to refute the benchmark results other than slander, inneuendo, and a whole lotta whinin'! :cool:


Just a co-inkydink that their "tests" show that LCD sucks eh?
AND 120hz AND led backlighting are hardly "bandaids", they are improvements.
120hs IS coming online , led backlight soom will be.

They're bandaids because LCD tech cannot come close to plasma performance without them, and they boost the cost of the TV well beyond plasma's price point in the process.


As for Samsungs new set "finally getting motion res right" this is a total lie that really sounds good, but an LED backlight has nothing to do with resolution, its main advantage is increased black level.

Obviously you skip every other word when reading this. That Samsung set uses a SEQUENTIAL LED backlight setup, which has the net effect of also raising the motion resolution performance while at the same time improving the black level performance (while also reducing the viewing angle). That Samsung and the top-of-the-line Sony are the only sets on the market that currently use that backlighting setup.


NOTHING has anything to do with "motion resolution" BECAUSE THAT DOESNT EXIST.

Only because you're in denial.


And even if it did 1080p is a PROGRESSIVE format, which doesnt suffer from the loss

Only with still images, but most of us watch moving pictures on our TVs.


Keep shouting the lie that a progressive format loses res during movement, and I will keep shouting LIAR

Feel free to yell whatever you want, but you'll still be wrong every single time! :cool:


Yeah, power efficency is anotther thing that plasma sucks at, and the picture cycling is
visible to the naked eye because it cuts efective brightness in HALF.

Only during those rare instances when the image is at near white-out does the brightness cycling even kick in. And since the calibrated white level is below 50% anyway, this is irrelevant.


Talk about band-aid, this one of many designed to try to prevent burn-in, which is STILL a problem.

Like I said, it has nothign to do with burn-in, yet you keep regurgitating made-up nonsense.


AND it doesnt "kick in", its a SOP for a plasma set

Wrong again.


You cant get something for nothing, with a plasma being off not only half the time but
getting dimmer 25% of the time effective brightness will be cut by more than half.
PRETTY DRACONIAN solution but then again burn in is a BIG problem

Like I said, under most operating conditions, the brightness cycling doesn't even occur. On my TV, the average power consumption will be somewhere around 200 watts using a calibrated setting, while the maximum power consumption is around 700 watts. The brightness cycling doesn't occur until the power consumption gets close to maximum, which is rare.

Burn-in is only a problem to you because you're such an LCD fanboy and don't like choices in the market.


Which doesnt change the fact that plasma requires babying in order to prevent burn in.

More wishful thinking on your part. The newer phosphors and pixel shifting make burn-in a nonissue with newer TVs.


They oughta be paying YOU since you quote their nonsense all of the time
Probably are

Like I said, you're a one-man promotional machine for plasma, given that people react to your hyperbolic nonsense and Vizio shilling by PURCHASING PLASMA TVs!


But I do have a working knowledge of English

But, a rather poor command of it. :cool:


According to YOU, I have never heard of this.

Nope, that $300 box charge was quoted directly by Vizio customer service reps that Gary Merson contacted.


SAME with Vizio, why do you keep it up with this lie?
I was worried about this so I called them, they said a local rep would come out and look at tHE set, see what I NEEDED.

AFTER you describe the problem to the phone rep. If it's something that CAN be fixed in-house, they will send somebody out. But, their warranty policy does not guarantee an on-site service call.


They said that if it was under warrenty it would be NO CHARGE.

Only IF the TV doesn't have to be shipped back to Vizio for the repair.


This isnt even a good lie, ANYBODY can check it by calling Vizio and checking by making up a claim.

Gary Merson DID check this by calling Vizio, and it was only after he reported the $500+ container and shipping charges for warranty service that Vizio began to offer on-site service. But, even now, their policy is open ended and ambiguous. All of the major brands that offer on-site service spell out their policy very clearly.


NO IT DOESNT, but a poorly designed product will have large failure rates and crappy performance, and the rube goldberg design of the plasma form factor cant be sturdy.

In other words, you LIED yet again!


Out of all of the LCD sets we have at work none have failed.

And at my office, about 1/3 of the LCD monitors at some point have failed or been rendered unwatchable by minor impacts.


I want you to say flat out that mersons web site is NOT trimmed in panasonic blue.
GO AHEAD.
Then I will post a link so others can check it out, then a link to Panasonics site.
This is not a "conspriacy of color", its a company that is spouting propaganda in order to save a business venture in light of increasing bad press about what that business venture is peddling...PLASMA.
Sad thing is that they have so little respect for average IQ( in your case well deserved)
that they decorated their propaganda site in their corp colors!!!
TALK about gall

:out:


I do have an "answer", when someone, and I dont care who, is talking about something that is totally bogus... LIKE "MOVING RESOLUTION" I am not going to beleive it any more than I beleive in Santa clause, I DONT CARE WHO IS SPOUTING THE NONSENSE.
Do you know why they didnt have an actual resolution test using an industry standard
test pattern?
Because the results would have been a lot closer, and a lot more accurate
And LCD would have fared a lot better.
Couldnt have that could we?
So quick!
MAKE SOMETHING UP!:1:
'

Keep right on backtracking. The performance tests don't lie, but you do. You accuse others of making stuff up, yet you're the one that's furthest removed from reality. I'm not the one talking about color conspiracies. Of course, if I was in your position, I might be desperately enough to grasp at those straws. Then again, you're the only one that seems to keep on digging when thrown into a hole! :out:

[Woochifer]

Intrinsic to every argument that you make is that these are going to be "paperweights" with five or ten years. What if the prospective buyer doesn't care? Personally, I don't plan on having any of the same gear ten years from now...mebbe the Mac amps but what if I catch a deal on some schweet VTL or VAC gear? Who knows, eh...

Hell, even pix doesn't care given that he's on his second Vizio TV in two years, and before that he claims to have owned 5 Sony TVs.

Before the Panny, I had two Mitsubishi CRT TVs I gave away after about 10 years (BTW, no burn-in on either set).


I can see that masked in the insults is a certain degree of hyperbole but isn't it enough to say that different folks might have differing needs, applications, and concerns?

Remember that EVERY technology out there is crap until pix buys in ... THEN it magically becomes the greatest thing ever! :cool:

[Woochifer]

All I am asking is to look into as much as possible before making a decision.

Nah, you're making crap up to convert people to your Church of Vizio and LCD


Its your money.

And most of the posters who read your illogical rants wind up spending theirs on plasma TVs.


My main problem is when propaganda is put up as "fact", and what I have to say is being fought by a multinational company with huge resources.

No, what you have to say is rosey colored fanboy nonsense, since the facts aren't on your side. Doesn't take much in the way of resources to debunk the crap you're posting ... not that it ever stops you from repeating yourself over and over, even after getting caught in lie after lie.


FOR INSTANCE to hear Wooch talk you would think that plasma has grown 30% a year,
etc, and the format has a "bright" future.

Plasma shipments DID grow by MORE THAN 30% last year. I never said that plasma had a "bright" future, then again, you're the one claiming that plasma is dead! :out:


Well, I went into Sams yesterday and they had two plasmas, a 60" pioneer for 2900
and a samsung (forget the price).
The guy working there told me they used to have TEN different models, but they could only stock what sold well.

Ohhhhh, the box boys at SAMS!!!!! THEY'RE the EXPERTS! :rolleyes: Now, we know where pixie gets half of his so-called "facts"! (those pills on pixie's avatar explain the OTHER half of his "facts").


They had a great display for comparison, with about 12 sets in the open space when you first come in.
There were several LCD sets that looked great with their bright screens and rich color.
On the side were the two plasmas , both were set at half brightness, and compared to the
LCD were quite dim.
Phosper just cant put out enough light.
Baiscally there is no reason to buy a plasma, the only "PQ" advantage is black level and thats because they arent as bright.

Yeah, everybody should light their living rooms up like a warehouse and watch TVs on torch mode! :out:


But a lot out there dont know that a lot of what they are getting is propaganda.

Yeah, some people venture over here and read your fanboy worship of Vizio LCDs.


I dont care if Panasonic has to eat the cost of their new plasma production facility,
they shouldnt have built the damn thing in the first.

Only because you can't stand to see plasma's huge sales growth proving your death rites wrong.


I too trade sets too often, longetivity isnt a problem, but to joe sixpack who expects these
sets to last the 20 years stated, who finds out one day that that is bogus, well, hes a
lot less able to eat that cost.

Nobody EXPECTS their TV to last 20 years, since most people trade in their sets well before half of that time elapses.


But what really gets my goat is Panasonic is better than this, really.
I PAID 80 BUCKS (160 in todays dollars) for a panny clock radio, one of the first with led
display, IN 1988. it still works perfectly 20 years later, still looks new.

Uh, as usual, your grasp of chronology is ever so fleeting. LED clocks were around for more than a decade before 1988. My old GE LED clock radio was purchased in 1976, and it still works as well. Then again, I don't presume that this means every GE product made RIGHT NOW will last that long.


I HAVE BOUGHT A LOT OF PANASONIC stuff over the years, a 47" RPTV, you name it,
and to see this type of balderdash is sad really.:1:

Yeah, it must have been sad to see Panasonic graduate onto better things, leaving you with the bottomfeeders (y'know those bottomfeeders that you claim to be the KING of!).

[02audionoob]

Speaking of the 47-inch Panasonic rear-projection HDTV (which I think also came in a 49-inch model)...Have you guys ever actually SEEN one of those things hooked up to a good source, like an HD cable box or a Blu-ray player?

I've really gotta give some props to that old TV. It's truly a very nice picture. A tiny bit of graininess and maybe slight convergence issues near the edges, but almost no pixelization, no motion blur, realistic color, decent brightness. The nuance of the analog color actually makes the whole image look more three-dimensional than a cheap digital panel.

I don't care who thinks I'm kidding or stupid, I have seen bargain-brand flat panels that do not look better than that old Panasonic.

[pixelthis]

Non existent only because you're in denial. It's reality to everyone else.




Facts only in your fictional world.



Like I said, you're the expert with mind-bending pills. :out:



In other words, to you Vizio is the best TV around.



Yep, consistently wrong.



Like I said before, the likelier paperweight is the TV with a 3X greater failure rate and inconsistent availability of spare parts, and that TV ain't the one in my living room! :cool:

[QUTOE=pixelthis]NOT EVERY PLASMA.

In other words, you LIED! (not that anyone's surprised, of course)



And yet, the only LCD TVs that can currently display actual HD resolution with a moving image requires a sequential LED backlighting setup that balloons the cost to twice that of a plasma TV and still has a narrower viewing angle.



Only if you believe that the LOWEST failure rate in the industry equates to a HIGH figure. :out:



So that explains why the year-to-year plasma shipments increased over the last half of the year, while LCD shipments fell? :out:



In other words, you never bothered to read the warranty, did you?



Like I said, you take three chances at drawing the short straw for every one draw that I take. Of course, in your upside down logic, you probably think that's a good thing!



If you think that a motion resolution of 330 lines or less equates to good picture quality.



In other words, you got nothing to refute the benchmark results other than slander, inneuendo, and a whole lotta whinin'! :cool:



They're bandaids because LCD tech cannot come close to plasma performance without them, and they boost the cost of the TV well beyond plasma's price point in the process.



Obviously you skip every other word when reading this. That Samsung set uses a SEQUENTIAL LED backlight setup, which has the net effect of also raising the motion resolution performance while at the same time improving the black level performance (while also reducing the viewing angle). That Samsung and the top-of-the-line Sony are the only sets on the market that currently use that backlighting setup.



Only because you're in denial.



Only with still images, but most of us watch moving pictures on our TVs.



Feel free to yell whatever you want, but you'll still be wrong every single time! :cool:



Only during those rare instances when the image is at near white-out does the brightness cycling even kick in. And since the calibrated white level is below 50% anyway, this is irrelevant.



Like I said, it has nothign to do with burn-in, yet you keep regurgitating made-up nonsense.



Wrong again.



Like I said, under most operating conditions, the brightness cycling doesn't even occur. On my TV, the average power consumption will be somewhere around 200 watts using a calibrated setting, while the maximum power consumption is around 700 watts. The brightness cycling doesn't occur until the power consumption gets close to maximum, which is rare.

Burn-in is only a problem to you because you're such an LCD fanboy and don't like choices in the market.



More wishful thinking on your part. The newer phosphors and pixel shifting make burn-in a nonissue with newer TVs.



Like I said, you're a one-man promotional machine for plasma, given that people react to your hyperbolic nonsense and Vizio shilling by PURCHASING PLASMA TVs!



But, a rather poor command of it. :cool:



Nope, that $300 box charge was quoted directly by Vizio customer service reps that Gary Merson contacted.



AFTER you describe the problem to the phone rep. If it's something that CAN be fixed in-house, they will send somebody out. But, their warranty policy does not guarantee an on-site service call.



Only IF the TV doesn't have to be shipped back to Vizio for the repair.



Gary Merson DID check this by calling Vizio, and it was only after he reported the $500+ container and shipping charges for warranty service that Vizio began to offer on-site service. But, even now, their policy is open ended and ambiguous. All of the major brands that offer on-site service spell out their policy very clearly.



In other words, you LIED yet again!



And at my office, about 1/3 of the LCD monitors at some point have failed or been rendered unwatchable by minor impacts.



:out:



Keep right on backtracking. The performance tests don't lie, but you do. You accuse others of making stuff up, yet you're the one that's furthest removed from reality. I'm not the one talking about color conspiracies. Of course, if I was in your position, I might be desperately enough to grasp at those straws. Then again, you're the only one that seems to keep on digging when thrown into a hole! :out:[/QUOTE]


I cant beleive it, such a long post and not ONE SINGLE FACT that os correct...
just lies , insults and half truths.
Another thing you got wrong.
SHARP has a one inch thick led backlit set, a 50", Samsung and sony arent the only ones.
But of course you got that wrong, along with EVERYTHING ELSE:1:

[pixelthis]

Speaking of the 47-inch Panasonic rear-projection HDTV (which I think also came in a 49-inch model)...Have you guys ever actually SEEN one of those things hooked up to a good source, like an HD cable box or a Blu-ray player?

I've really gotta give some props to that old TV. It's truly a very nice picture. A tiny bit of graininess and maybe slight convergence issues near the edges, but almost no pixelization, no motion blur, realistic color, decent brightness. The nuance of the analog color actually makes the whole image look more three-dimensional than a cheap digital panel.

I don't care who thinks I'm kidding or stupid, I have seen bargain-brand flat panels that do not look better than that old Panasonic.

it was a nice set, I had the 47" for several years, hooked up to a dish HD box.
When I first got it the only source was DVD and a Samsung tuner hooked up to a 30 ft mast.
It was a great TV but didnt have enough space when I LOST THE house.
BESIDES, even with contrast at 50% burn-in was eveident after two years, and was worse after three.
Nice pic while it lasted tho.:1:

[pixelthis]

Hell, even pix doesn't care given that he's on his second Vizio TV in two years, and before that he claims to have owned 5 Sony TVs.

Before the Panny, I had two Mitsubishi CRT TVs I gave away after about 10 years (BTW, no burn-in on either set).



Remember that EVERY technology out there is crap until pix buys in ... THEN it magically becomes the greatest thing ever! :cool:


My first is in my parents house, and still going strong after three years.
My first Sony was one of the first XBR sets, a 20", which was actually a decent size back then, had cool speakers on the side.
My next was a standard 27" bought because letterboxed laser was too small on the 20".
After that it was a 32" XBR , one of the best ever.
Then a standard 32" that bragged a XBR tube.
Then a wega for mom and dad.
Then a 60" mitshu.
Then a 47" panny.
THEN a 47" Samsung
Then a 30 tube Samsung
Then a 37" vizio
then a 42" 1080p vizio

AND not every tech is "crap" just rapidly being phased out, just like the gas car killed
all other contenders, LCD will do so now.
Doesnt matter what you "like" its just simple reality.
Which is why you have trouble understanding it, considering your total lack oif connection WITH reality.

BTW nothing wrong with the 37" vizio, I just wound up with the cash and wanted the best for my BLU player.
Couldnt afford the best (Sony) so I got a decent compromise.
BUT one of teh first things I get when I get old enough to tap the 401k(if its still there)
will be the best sony they make.:1:

[Woochifer]

I cant beleive it, such a long post and not ONE SINGLE FACT that os correct...
just lies , insults and half truths.

The facts are there, you just ignore them or outright lie about them. What you consider insults, I would view as the sad truth! :lol: :lol: :lol:


SHARP has a one inch thick led backlit set, a 50", Samsung and sony arent the only ones.
But of course you got that wrong, along with EVERYTHING ELSE:1:

Like I said, try not to skip every other word when reading (then again, why bother, since your comprehension is as lacking as always). I said that Samsung and Sony are the first ones doing SEQUENTIAL LED backlighting, which is a very different design from a basic LED backlight in that it selectively dims and lights up different zones on the screen to match picture content (and in the case of the Sony, they use a three-color LED array to widen the color gamut). So, you're WRONG about this point YET AGAIN, but rather than admit that you made this idiotic oversight twice in a row, I guess you'll just repeat yourself yet again as usual.

[Woochifer]

My first is in my parents house, and still going strong after three years.
My first Sony was one of the first XBR sets, a 20", which was actually a decent size back then, had cool speakers on the side.
My next was a standard 27" bought because letterboxed laser was too small on the 20".
After that it was a 32" XBR , one of the best ever.
Then a standard 32" that bragged a XBR tube.
Then a wega for mom and dad.
Then a 60" mitshu.
Then a 47" panny.
THEN a 47" Samsung
Then a 30 tube Samsung
Then a 37" vizio
then a 42" 1080p vizio

And yet, your favorite TV remains that old battery powered LCD TV. :lol: Pretty hypocritical of you to keep making all these nonsensical claims about durability when all you ever do is kick your TVs to the curb before the warranties even expire.


AND not every tech is "crap" just rapidly being phased out, just like the gas car killed
all other contenders, LCD will do so now.
Doesnt matter what you "like" its just simple reality.
Which is why you have trouble understanding it, considering your total lack oif connection WITH reality.

I'm perfectly connected with reality. The only reality that you connect with is whatever delusions you manufacture with your lies and pill poppin'! :out:


BTW nothing wrong with the 37" vizio, I just wound up with the cash and wanted the best for my BLU player.

Obviously something was wrong with it, otherwise you wouldn't have traded it in right after purchasing it.

[pixelthis]

The facts are there, you just ignore them or outright lie about them. What you consider insults, I would view as the sad truth! :lol: :lol: :lol:



Like I said, try not to skip every other word when reading (then again, why bother, since your comprehension is as lacking as always). I said that Samsung and Sony are the first ones doing SEQUENTIAL LED backlighting, which is a very different design from a basic LED backlight in that it selectively dims and lights up different zones on the screen to match picture content (and in the case of the Sony, they use a three-color LED array to widen the color gamut). So, you're WRONG about this point YET AGAIN, but rather than admit that you made this idiotic oversight twice in a row, I guess you'll just repeat yourself yet again as usual.


WHAT A MAROON.
Sharp was the first to come out with the LED backlight, and its the same adaptive backlight as the Sony, except better.
CANT YOU GET ANYTHING RIGHT?

http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,2125,00.html

[Woochifer]

WHAT A MAROON.
Sharp was the first to come out with the LED backlight, and its the same adaptive backlight as the Sony, except better.
CANT YOU GET ANYTHING RIGHT?

http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,2125,00.html

No mention whatsoever on that link as to whether Sharp's LED setup does any kind of strobing or sequential scanning that enables local dimming across multiple regions of the screen. Try again, not all LED backlights are the same.

[pixelthis]

No mention whatsoever on that link as to whether Sharp's LED setup does any kind of strobing or sequential scanning that enables local dimming across multiple regions of the screen. Try again, not all LED backlights are the same.


its an RGB backlight, and the call it something else , but it does adapt to black levels.:1:

[Woochifer]

its an RGB backlight, and the call it something else , but it does adapt to black levels.:1:

But, no mention of zone-specific dimming, which is what sequential LED backlighting is. It's this design feature that significantly boosts the motion resolution.

[Bisz]

Here is my 2 cents:

1) For the same price, a plasma TV will give you better picture quality than an LCD.
2) If price is not an issue, then the top of the line plasma will give you better picture quality than an LCD.

[Brainstorm]

I’ve been looking though the posts made by this TROLL pixelthis. His annoyance has now past its sale date. I think it’s about time the moderator’s administrator BAN him along with his IP address as that is most defiantly past sale date and its starting smell and stick the site out.

[Brainstorm]

Sorry Danny for the interruption. There is only one thing we can say about Pixelthis:

người ngu dại



RR6 :D

PS: The current models from Panasonic have a very effective non-reflective screen and are significantly brighter than previous year's models.

And the translation for that is BAN pixelthis for his childish immature posts and rude remakes to other members.

MODS BAN pixelthis now please.

I don’t what see him read him or smell him.:mad2: :mad5:

[02audionoob]

I’ve been looking though the posts made by this TROLL pixelthis. His annoyance has now past its sale date. I think it’s about time the moderator’s administrator BAN him along with his IP address as that is most defiantly past sale date and its starting smell and stick the site out.

What's your definition of a troll? Pixelthis is just voicing his opinion like anyone else around here.

[Kevio]

I don’t what see him read him or smell him.:mad2: :mad5:Dorothy, you've had the power all along: add him to your ignore list (http://forums.audioreview.com/profile.php?do=editlist).

[MikeyBC]

Until today this thread has been dead for over 3 months...let it die.

[BadAssJazz]

Late to the discussion...

I went with the plasma and have no regrets at all. At the time that I was purchasing a plasma -- and this would be my second one that I own, as I passed my first one on to the parents -- LCD could not match the PQ of plasma.

I understand the complaint about reflective glass surfaces, etc., but I'm not one to watch anything in a brightly lit room, especially a movie. My place has blinds and curtains on the windows for that very reason. I want as near a theater viewing experience as possible. Why the hell are we in this hobby if not for that? And watching sports action in nigh-HD on a plasma is astounding.

That said, LCD and plasma owners all stick closely to their respective camps. I have friends who own LCD's who have no regrets about their choice. Same applies for plasma owners. Until something better comes along, plasma is my choice.

[Brainstorm]

Dorothy, you've had the power all along: add him to your ignore list (http://forums.audioreview.com/profile.php?do=editlist).

http://forums.audioreview.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5563&stc=1&d=1242396663

IT’S been added to the list.:14: