HDCP help..confusion...eduacation.....

[N. Abstentia]

This HDCP stuff has me confused, since I'm not used to seeing it!

Here's the deal:
I recently added a Sony BluRay player to my sytem, which also meant I had to also add an HDMI switcher since my Outlaw 990 preamp only has 2 DVI inputs already taken up by an Xbox and HD DirecTV. I got a 4 port HDMI switcher from Monoprice. I have seen this HDCP stuff from my Xbox's HD-DVD player as it links up and does it's thing, and when I would switch from HD-DVD to DirecTV I couldn't get a picture until I exited the HD-DVD and went out to the Xbox dashboard.

So when I added the BluRay, I just hooked everything directly to the switch and had tons of trouble getting the BluRay to work. The 'HDMI' light would not come on the front and it would just not give a picture. Eventually I figured out that if I connected the BluRay to the Outlaw preamp first, then to the switcher it worked like a champ. I also hooked up the DirecTV HD box to the other DVI input on the Outlaw so I would have a free input on the HDMI switcher. Problem with that was when I would switch from BluRay to DirecTV..no picture. I'd have to cut the BluRay off in order to get a picture on DirecTV. So, now I have went back to connecting the DirecTV directly to the switch.

So I guess what I need to know is..what's going on with this HDCP stuff? I'm just plugging and unplugging until it works and I don't really understand how HDCP works or what it's looking for..is there some sort of guideline to go by? What's the difference between going to the preamp first and going directly to the switch?

And the next big question is..do upcoverting DVD only players rely on HDCP as heavily as BluRay? I ask because I plan to replace the 2 DVD players in my system with upconverting models unless it's going to be this much headache when switching between sources.

[Mr Peabody]

Is the HDMI switcher one of those "auto" switchers that senses the signal to know which one to let through? If so, you are confusing it with more than one source powered on. Cable and satelite boxes are really a problem since they stay on all the time. I think the Oppo unit has a fix on theirs for that but I forgot what they do.

If it is a HDCP problem it would never work no matter what you do because if one of the components is not compliant it isn't getting through. Both units with HDCP have to have the "friendly hand shake".

HDMI can sometimes have sync issues with other components, this has more to do with a lack of standards issued from HDMI LLC. The only thing you can do when the issue comes up is to power down your units and bring them back on one at a time. Sometimes a certain sequence of what gets powered on works but it requires some playing around to figure it out.

Your Blu-ray player will upsample DVD. Depending on the unit, some are quite good, where others out right suck and it's worth getting a separate DVD player.

[pixelthis]

You need to bypass your outlaw completely and do the switching with an outboard switcher only.
It shouldnt have HDCP since that is a creature oF HDMI, and its DVI only.
But you didnt mention the most important item, your monitor.
If it doesnt have HDCP you are messed up good.
SORRY.:1:

[N. Abstentia]

I'll answer a few questions, thanks guys!

The switcher is a fully manual switch, I definitely didn't want automatic since all the sources would be on all the time.

The monitor is a Toshiba Regza LCD.

When I bypass the Outlaw, the BluRay player does not work at all (the HDMI light does not come on it) if any other components are powered on. I did move the DirecTV from the Outlaw and went straight to the switcher and that helped with the DirecTV not coming on when switching to it from BluRay. Now the only thing connected to the Outlaw is the BluRay.

I'm thinking along the lines of Mr. Peabody in that there are some funky standards and not everything is on the same level.

As far as upcoverting, I know the BluRay will do it (as well as the Xbox) but I need a 400 disc changer PLUS a seperate 5 disc changer! I currently use s-video for them now but would like to upgrade them both to up converting models...unless DVD players are as picky as BluRay/HD-DVD players seem to be with this HCDP stuff.

I could probably live with it like it is now, by connecting the BluRay to the Outlaw first, then everything else to the switch it works much better. I'm just afraid that adding 2 HDMI DVD players will make everything go wacky!

edit: pixelthis I just noticed I have the same BluRay player as you. I gave my neighbor $100 and a laptop battery for it :)

[Rich-n-Texas]

...I'm thinking along the lines of Mr. Peabody in that there are some funky standards and not everything is on the same level.
HDCP is a copy protection scheme designed with greed in mind. :nono:


edit: pixelthis I just noticed I have the same BluRay player as you. I gave my neighbor $100 and a laptop battery for it :)
That's funny. Pixie got his from his next door neighbor also. (I think he still hasn't paid for it yet though.) :biggrin5:

[N. Abstentia]

HDCP is a copy protection scheme designed with greed in mind. :nono:


That's funny. Pixie got his from his next door neighbor also. (I think he still hasn't paid for it yet though.) :biggrin5:

Well in all honestly, so far I've only given him $50! I guess audio/videophiles think alike :)

[Mr Peabody]

What happens when you plug the Blu-ray directly to the TV? If it works fine then I suspect your switcher is the problem some how.

[N. Abstentia]

What happens when you plug the Blu-ray directly to the TV? If it works fine then I suspect your switcher is the problem some how.

The BluRay works fine straight to the TV, but that's bypassing the problem because there are no other HDCP sources hooked up. It works fine through the switch IF there are no other HDCP sources powered up and connected to the switch. Playing a BluRay or HD-DVD then switching back to DirecTV yeilds no picture until the BluRay or HD-DVD is turned off. It worked that way before I added the switcher.

Maybe what I should do is try to hook the DirecTV straight to the TV (it has 3 HDMI inputs) and see if HDCP still presents that problem. I didn't try hooking both up to the TV at the same time before, only the BluRay.

I don't like this HDCP :)

[Mr Peabody]

What do you mean you had the problem before the switch? What was everything hooked to then?

What are you using for an audio input since the Outlaw is DVI?

[N. Abstentia]

What do you mean you had the problem before the switch? What was everything hooked to then?

What are you using for an audio input since the Outlaw is DVI?

Before the switch, the only HDMI sources I had were the Xbox 360 and DirecTV so they went to the 2 DVI inputs on the preamp. Audio is handled via optical/coax.

Adding the BluRay meant adding an HDMI switch, with which I planned to bypass the Outlaw completely. However as I found out, the BluRay had trouble getting an HDMI connection if another HDCP source (Xbox 360) was powered on and connected to the switch. Connecting the BluRay to the Outlaw first, then the switch took care of that and I'm fine with that but I'm just worried that an upcoverting DVD player would act the same way when I get it connected.

The problem with DirecTV not working when the BluRay was on was when I moved the BluRay to the Outlaw (dvi input 1) and DirecTV was already on dvi2, then the output of those went to one port of the switch. The Outlaw handled switching those two sources, then of course whichever one was on would go to that port on the HDMI switch...but like I said DirecTV would just be snow if the BluRay was on. Taking DirecTV off the Outlaw and straight to another switch port fixed that. Problem is, I'll now need to connect one of the DVD players to that input but it might not be a huge issue since I doubt I'll have that particular DVD player and the BluRay on at the same time.

I'm sure this is all HDCP handshaking or whatever, because back before all this when it was just Xbox & DirecTV hooked to the Outlaw, I would get snow on the DirecTV input if I had a DVD or HD-DVD playing in the Xbox. I'd just have to exit out to the Xbox Dashboard and break that HDCP connection to fix it.

I'm just trying to understand this HDCP stuff, and I'm especially trying to understand why the BluRay player works so much better connected to the Outlaw. If it wasn't for the Outlaw, I would have had to get rid of the BluRay player!

[Mr Peabody]

It's an puzzling issue. I have a couple theories and one I already touched on, the component you just turned on can't sync because the prior was not turned off, the problem with this, the switcher should isolate the new signal from the old, which brings me to my second theory, the circuits in the switcher and Outlaw allow for bleeding over to other video paths. The Blu-ray works fine with the Outlaw as long as nothing else is plugged into the Outlaw and the Blu-ray works fine just plugged into the TV.

When I watch a Blu-ray movie and then switch back to satelite my screen will black out for a few seconds then come on with the new picture from the satelite box. The black out is from the HDMI components syncing. It sounds like something is stopping the sync from completing in your set up.

Just buy a shiny new AV8003 and problem solved :)

[pixelthis]

I'll answer a few questions, thanks guys!

The switcher is a fully manual switch, I definitely didn't want automatic since all the sources would be on all the time.

The monitor is a Toshiba Regza LCD.

When I bypass the Outlaw, the BluRay player does not work at all (the HDMI light does not come on it) if any other components are powered on. I did move the DirecTV from the Outlaw and went straight to the switcher and that helped with the DirecTV not coming on when switching to it from BluRay. Now the only thing connected to the Outlaw is the BluRay.

I'm thinking along the lines of Mr. Peabody in that there are some funky standards and not everything is on the same level.

As far as upcoverting, I know the BluRay will do it (as well as the Xbox) but I need a 400 disc changer PLUS a seperate 5 disc changer! I currently use s-video for them now but would like to upgrade them both to up converting models...unless DVD players are as picky as BluRay/HD-DVD players seem to be with this HCDP stuff.

I could probably live with it like it is now, by connecting the BluRay to the Outlaw first, then everything else to the switch it works much better. I'm just afraid that adding 2 HDMI DVD players will make everything go wacky!

edit: pixelthis I just noticed I have the same BluRay player as you. I gave my neighbor $100 and a laptop battery for it :)


GOOD FOR YOU, its a great player, although load times are a tad long, which I fix by putting the disc in well before I use it.
And I might be offering such a deal if the casinos are kind during the holidays.
I like my player but would like to have a better unit, I got this one because I had a chance to, and really wanted a Blu player.
AS for HDCP I have never had a problem with it...ever:1:

[pixelthis]

HDCP is a copy protection scheme designed with greed in mind. :nono:

AND you were obviously born with a mushroom cloud in view.
Funny idea you have about "greed", you wouldnt work one nanosecond
without being paid, but you expect the movie and music industry to.
Truth is we will always need some sort of HDCP in order to watch movies in the house,
and its a fair trade, I FOR ONE dont blame people for wanting to get paid for
what they do, I expect to get paid for what I do, after all.
What, you expect a free lunch?


That's funny. Pixie got his from his next door neighbor also. (I think he still hasn't paid for it yet though.) :biggrin5:

Still owe a C-NOTE on it, but what a great player.
Still gonna trade it soon tho.:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

You put words in my mouth pix. Try using the "Preview Post" option so you can be sure you have your quotes right next time okay?