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02audionoob
11-26-2008, 08:38 AM
This is probably a subject addressed quite a bit already, but any thoughts on good bookshelf speakers under $1,000? Used speakers and demo's are acceptable...not just MSRP. My own criteria would include power handling of at least 150 watts...maybe even 200...but that seems to knock some of the good ones out of the discussion.

blackraven
11-26-2008, 10:17 AM
My favorite is the NHT Classic Three. Its a 3 way and has a warmer sound. Read the reviews in stereophile.com.

Dali Ikon 2's
PSB Synchrony B's
PSB Imagine B's
Epos M12.2
Dynaudio's

audio amateur
11-26-2008, 10:29 AM
B&W CM1, Monitor Audio RS1, Dynaudio Audience 52, B&W 685, Quad 12L, Polk Audio LSi9 to name a few

02audionoob
11-26-2008, 10:31 AM
I've been interested in the Polk Audio LSi9, but the only place I've seen them is at Fry's, which didn't have them hooked up and the store is too loud for a good listen.

blackraven
11-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Many speakers can handle more power than they are rated for as long as its clean power and not at the upper limits of the amp where it can clip.

audio amateur
11-26-2008, 10:41 AM
I've been interested in the Polk Audio LSi9, but the only place I've seen them is at Fry's, which didn't have them hooked up and the store is too loud for a good listen.
Try Circuit City?

topspeed
11-26-2008, 10:47 AM
What does power handling have to do with sound quality? :confused: Some of the best sounding standmounts such as the Focal Chorus line have sensitivity in the mid 90's and only require a few watts to really rock.

As you don't mind pre-owned, a quick scan of audiogon revealed quite a few treasures such as the Spendor SP3 (awesome midrange and clarity), MF OML1 (JM, a mod here, swears by these), or the Usher X719 (extremely musical, love to rock). I'm admittedly biased towards the Von Schwiekert VR1, but they aren't in production anymore and are getting hard to find, even on a'gon.

A lot depends on what you listen to and what kind of room you're putting them in. What's your front end?

blackraven
11-26-2008, 10:53 AM
These Mordaunt Short Mezzo's are a nice speaker as well.
http://www.wildwestelectronics.net/mezzo-2-bookshelf-speaker.html

nightflier
11-26-2008, 11:03 AM
Some time back I purchased a pair of Talon Audio Kites for $800, and they've been the best speaker I've ever owned. They retailed for $4K-ish when new, and I can see... I mean hear, why. They are amazing speakers and for what I paid, a fantastic bargain. They are currently my reference.

What I would suggest, if you're going to buy used, is to look for a lesser-known but still highly-respected brand, maybe from some of the smaller mom & pop shops. Also look for Western European brands that people here may not know so well, and there's quite a few American ones too. Brands like Talon, Meadowlark and Odyssey aren't that well known, but they make very good hand-made, real-wood speakers with the kind of engineering craftsmanship you really don't find anymore nowadays.

Another speaker that has intrigued me over the years is Nohr. They are hand-made in the far East using reverse horns, hence the name. Their hollowed out wood 5.1 model (http://www.norh.com/products/norh5/walnut5_1_5.jpg) is the kind of speaker that will make visitors ooh and ah and they sound just as impressive from what I've read. What's cool about Nohr is that they are local-owned, fair labor, and from what I can tell green too. And the prices, which include shipping, are also right in your price range.

Jack in Wilmington
11-26-2008, 11:16 AM
I'll second Topspeed's recommendation of the Usher X719's. They are recently discontinued and you can find great deals on them on Audiogon. Totem Rainmakers are another nice speaker with warmth and detail. Vienna Acoustics Hayden is still another. Saw them the other day for $550 at Tweeter, which is going out of business.

02audionoob
11-26-2008, 01:05 PM
What does power handling have to do with sound quality? :confused: Some of the best sounding standmounts such as the Focal Chorus line have sensitivity in the mid 90's and only require a few watts to really rock.

As you don't mind pre-owned, a quick scan of audiogon revealed quite a few treasures such as the Spendor SP3 (awesome midrange and clarity), MF OML1 (JM, a mod here, swears by these), or the Usher X719 (extremely musical, love to rock). I'm admittedly biased towards the Von Schwiekert VR1, but they aren't in production anymore and are getting hard to find, even on a'gon.

A lot depends on what you listen to and what kind of room you're putting them in. What's your front end?

The power handling issue...At the 12:00 position, my Adcom GFP-565/GCD-575/GFA-545II setup drives my current speakers to the point of making clapping noises. Now I've switched to a GFA-555II and I'm limited to the 10:00 position. But I knew that would be an issue...I've been shopping for speakers with that in mind.

As for high-sensitivity Focal speakers...My Cobalt 806S speakers sound great, but they're the ones that can't handle the power.

Thanks for the other suggestions. I've been looking at Audiogon with my search limited to my local area and the selection isn't too bad even with that constraint. But I don't know much about the models I'm seeing...thus the idea of seeking some suggestions.



Try Circuit City?

Forgot about those guys. The stores in my immediate area closed, but I see on circuitcity.com there are some out in the 'burbs.


Type of music I listen to on this system...Classical, Jazz, standards, bluegrass, old-school country, R&B, pop...much of it on vinyl. What I want to crank up is more of the pop and R&B genre on CD, like Alicia Keys.

audio amateur
11-26-2008, 01:28 PM
What do you mean by 'clapping noises'? Are you sure it's the amp you're not over-driving? (which causes 'clipping'- a distorted signal to the speakers)
If you want speakers that'll play loud, you want high sensitivity & preferably floorstanders with several drivers. And perhaps a higher power amplifier (I dont know how much those Adcoms output)

02audionoob
11-26-2008, 01:49 PM
What do you mean by 'clapping noises'? Are you sure it's the amp you're not over-driving? (which causes 'clipping'- a distorted signal to the speakers)
If you want speakers that'll play loud, you want high sensitivity & preferably floorstanders with several drivers. And perhaps a higher power amplifier (I dont know how much those Adcoms output)


The noise I called "clapping" is a very fast noise. It sounds like sort of a blap-blap-blap during periods of somewhat heavy bass. I actually have been able to avoid that issue at my normal listening levels by adding a subwoofer and setting the crossover to 100 Hz. The noise doesn't sound like like it's being played through the speaker. It sounds like it's the actual cone.

I'm sure it's not the amps. The GFA-545II is a conservatively-rated 100 wpc continuous average power at 8 Ohms and the GFA-555II is 200. The speakers are rated for something like 75 watts RMS, which I certainly expected to be more than enough. I feel sure running the Adcom amps at the 12:00 position isn't overdoing it. The amps have warning lights for distortion/clipping and the lights have never come on with either amp.

A side note...Part of my original plan for these two amps was to bi-amp some floorstanding speakers...so that's an idea that still rocking around in my brain.

02audionoob
11-26-2008, 01:58 PM
What I would suggest, if you're going to buy used, is to look for a lesser-known but still highly-respected brand, maybe from some of the smaller mom & pop shops. Also look for Western European brands that people here may not know so well, and there's quite a few American ones too. Brands like Talon, Meadowlark and Odyssey aren't that well known, but they make very good hand-made, real-wood speakers with the kind of engineering craftsmanship you really don't find anymore nowadays.

I like this idea, too. I think this would allow me to aim higher than the likes of Polk (no offense intended, Mr. Polk). I saw a pair of Jean Marie Reynaud 'Trente' on Craigslist today, but not inside my arbitrary constraint of $1,000.

nightflier
11-26-2008, 02:23 PM
Polk's best speakers, the LSi series, are certainly respectable, albeit getting a bit long in the tooth.

jrhymeammo
11-26-2008, 02:40 PM
What does power handling have to do with sound quality? :confused: Some of the best sounding standmounts such as the Focal Chorus line have sensitivity in the mid 90's and only require a few watts to really rock.

As you don't mind pre-owned, a quick scan of audiogon revealed quite a few treasures such as the Spendor SP3 (awesome midrange and clarity), MF OML1 (JM, a mod here, swears by these), or the Usher X719 (extremely musical, love to rock). I'm admittedly biased towards the Von Schwiekert VR1, but they aren't in production anymore and are getting hard to find, even on a'gon.

A lot depends on what you listen to and what kind of room you're putting them in. What's your front end?

Great advice and suggestions, especially for a member who hasn't posted in months!
Guess you are too busy screeching rubber.

Are you looking for speakers that'll wow listeners or something you can listen to for hours and hours.

Defintely put Tyler Acoustics' Taylo Reference Monitor in your list.
Since the new "D" products are out, you should be able to steal a pair for around your maximum budget. One of the best inexpensive speakers on the market for sure.


It's all a matter of taste, but you may want to get Polk off of your list. They dont resolve music except for mush. They are overpriced for what they produce.

JRA

blackraven
11-26-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm glad some one else made that comment about POLK. There are a lot better speakers out there for under $1K.

audio amateur
11-26-2008, 02:44 PM
The noise I called "clapping" is a very fast noise. It sounds like sort of a blap-blap-blap during periods of somewhat heavy bass. I actually have been able to avoid that issue at my normal listening levels by adding a subwoofer and setting the crossover to 100 Hz. The noise doesn't sound like like it's being played through the speaker. It sounds like it's the actual cone.

...

A side note...Part of my original plan for these two amps was to bi-amp some floorstanding speakers...so that's an idea that still rocking around in my brain.
I would back off the volume in that case. What you'll need is a bookshelf with a large bass driver or multiple bass drivers. If you're thinking loud, perhaps think Klipsch. They tend have high sensitivity & power handling (larger bass drivers, depending on the model). The Polk may fair ok at higher levels aswell.

JohnMichael
11-26-2008, 02:50 PM
The noise I called "clapping" is a very fast noise. It sounds like sort of a blap-blap-blap during periods of somewhat heavy bass. I actually have been able to avoid that issue at my normal listening levels by adding a subwoofer and setting the crossover to 100 Hz. The noise doesn't sound like like it's being played through the speaker. It sounds like it's the actual cone.








Sounds like the voice coil former hitting the backplate of the magnet structure. Happens during high excursions when trying to reproduce bass at loud volumes. If the speakers are rolled off below 100 hz you should not have this problem as you have discovered.

audio amateur
11-26-2008, 03:01 PM
Great advice and suggestions, especially for a member who hasn't posted in months!
Guess you are too busy screeching rubber.

Are you looking for speakers that'll wow listeners or something you can listen to for hours and hours.

Defintely put Tyler Acoustics' Taylo Reference Monitor in your list.
Since the new "D" products are out, you should be able to steal a pair for around your maximum budget. One of the best inexpensive speakers on the market for sure.


It's all a matter of taste, but you may want to get Polk off of your list. They dont resolve music except for mush. They are overpriced for what they produce.

JRA
Have you heard the LSi9's?

jrhymeammo
11-26-2008, 03:14 PM
Not sure if I've heard that specific model, but I've heard tons of Polk speakers @ CC. I've never been impressed. Also, not a huge fan of MTM design either.

the hand of boredom
11-27-2008, 06:18 AM
There is a Reference 3A Dulcet on Audiogon for $1100. You'll be hard pressed to find something better for that price, in my opinion. There is no crossover, the driver gets direct coupling. Google some reviews or checkout the reviews here for any of the 3A speakers.

Compared to B&W, Monitor Audio, and even (don't shoot me) the Quad stand-mounts I've auditioned, the Dulcet has a greater sense of realism, presence, and palpability.

E-Stat
11-27-2008, 08:12 AM
I would back off the volume in that case. What you'll need is a bookshelf with a large bass driver or multiple bass drivers.
I think he's simply hearing clipping. Many speakers with small drivers can play at ear bleeding levels when provided enough power.

rw

nightflier
11-27-2008, 10:44 AM
Not sure if I've heard that specific model, but I've heard tons of Polk speakers @ CC. I've never been impressed. Also, not a huge fan of MTM design either.

What they sell at CC is not of the caliber as the LSi series. I've owned the LSi 7s and that tweeter is amazing. I bought the speakers second-hand for about $300, a bargain, IMO. They don't compare to others I've heard since, but my taste has gotten a lot more expensive (much to my pocketbook's chagrin). Once you hear speakers in the $2K range and above, there is definitely a difference from the CC & BB stuff. The LSi series, while not gian killers, are certainly a stand-out.

pixelthis
11-28-2008, 12:13 AM
What they sell at CC is not of the caliber as the LSi series. I've owned the LSi 7s and that tweeter is amazing. I bought the speakers second-hand for about $300, a bargain, IMO. They don't compare to others I've heard since, but my taste has gotten a lot more expensive (much to my pocketbook's chagrin). Once you hear speakers in the $2K range and above, there is definitely a difference from the CC & BB stuff. The LSi series, while not gian killers, are certainly a stand-out.

What gets me about Polk is that a lot of his older stuff was so amazing
compared to his new, more generic stuff.
Sad what has happened to his gear.:1:

02audionoob
11-28-2008, 09:41 AM
Any thoughts on Tannoy Revolution DC4?

Duds
11-28-2008, 12:34 PM
I second the Von Schweikert VR-1's


What does power handling have to do with sound quality? :confused: Some of the best sounding standmounts such as the Focal Chorus line have sensitivity in the mid 90's and only require a few watts to really rock.

As you don't mind pre-owned, a quick scan of audiogon revealed quite a few treasures such as the Spendor SP3 (awesome midrange and clarity), MF OML1 (JM, a mod here, swears by these), or the Usher X719 (extremely musical, love to rock). I'm admittedly biased towards the Von Schwiekert VR1, but they aren't in production anymore and are getting hard to find, even on a'gon.

A lot depends on what you listen to and what kind of room you're putting them in. What's your front end?

nightflier
11-28-2008, 10:55 PM
It's a little bit above $1000, but what about the PSB Syncrony 2B bookshelf speakers? I think there was a used pair on eBay just a little while ago, too. These are getting excellent reviews.

Ajani
11-29-2008, 02:56 AM
Speaking of PSB, the new Imagine B Bookshelf costs $1K....

hotroady
12-02-2008, 03:21 PM
Yes, it is sad what happened to Polk. I suggest Klipsch RB-75's. or 2 RC-7 center channels. I just missed buying one on Craigslist for 150.00. The RC-7 has additional 8" woofer that is x-o'd at 550hz. Boosts the mids. Seems both Heritage and Reference series fans agree that the RB-75 has no peer.

theaudiohobby
12-03-2008, 08:48 AM
Any thoughts on Tannoy Revolution DC4?

Not heard that particular tannoy, but the previous generation of the same model was very decent.

3db
12-03-2008, 05:51 PM
Speaking of PSB, the new Imagine B Bookshelf costs $1K....

Both PSB Synchrony series and Imagine series are receiving stellar reviews from across the board. With their new Imagine line, PSB is taking a direct shot at Paradigm's vaulted Studio series. This will be an interesting battle.

jrhymeammo
12-14-2008, 08:28 PM
What they sell at CC is not of the caliber as the LSi series. I've owned the LSi 7s and that tweeter is amazing. I bought the speakers second-hand for about $300, a bargain, IMO. They don't compare to others I've heard since, but my taste has gotten a lot more expensive (much to my pocketbook's chagrin). Once you hear speakers in the $2K range and above, there is definitely a difference from the CC & BB stuff. The LSi series, while not gian killers, are certainly a stand-out.

I guess I haven't heard the particular model. Is that a pair of modified Vifa XT25 tweeter?

audio amateur
12-15-2008, 03:15 AM
I guess I haven't heard the particular model. Is that a pair of modified Vifa XT25 tweeter?
Yep they have Vifa ring tweeters ( I believe once used in a much more expensive Krell speaker), but couldn't tell you the model . Maybe Nightflier will

captjamo
12-15-2008, 07:24 AM
OutLaw Audio.com has a lot of bang for the buck ( direct marketed). They have some new bookshelf speakers that sell for 1000.00

nightflier
12-15-2008, 01:38 PM
Krell speakers tend to be a bit overpriced for what they are IMO, so I've never had the desire to audition them. The Vifa tweeter is used in Krell's uber-expensive LAT-2 speakers. I remember reading that one of the things that sets this speaker appart is that phenomenal tweeter and that without it, the LAT-2 would be a lot less impressive.

Regarding the Ring Radiator Vifa tweeter, with the signature "bullet" dustcap, Polk does very little modification to it - and according to most, they shouldn't need to. Krell actually does modify it, but for Polk it's pretty much the one that comes from Vifa. What they do do is design the cabinet and integrate it with the other drivers, and they do a very good job of it. Of course it doesn't hurt that it can go up to 27KHz., although that's probably only of interest to the bats in the attic (hey the little guys may like to listen in, you never know). But actually what the tweeter does so well is provide clarity and punch in the upper mid-range and it hands off to the other drivers very smoothly. This is to Polk's credit in my opinion.

If you add to that the fact that the LSis have been around pretty much unchanged for almost a decade and are still current, that's also quite an accomplishment. For a mere $700 street, the LSi9's are a fantastic value. This guy is selling a pair for just $300 to start:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Polk-Audio-LSi9-Main-Stereo-Speaker_W0QQitemZ110326178267QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSp eakers_Subwoofers?hash=item110326178267&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

jrhymeammo
12-15-2008, 04:52 PM
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesnt Krell, Sonus Fabre, and other well renowned manufacturers use Ring Radiator by ScanSpeak?

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1581

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/images/madisound/product/r2904_700009.jpg

jrhymeammo
12-15-2008, 04:55 PM
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/krell/6.jpg


I guess not. What a rip-off for $5K speakers, but if you like to the sound, then by all means.

Kevio
12-16-2008, 11:14 PM
Some of my friends in professional audio are impressed with the Dynaudio BM12a. 50+100w bi amped. It fits in your budget and they are self-powered so you can sell your amp and be in the black.

Mark111867
01-05-2009, 06:06 AM
If you're still looking, the Revel Concerta M12's are capable of playing loudly without to much of a fuss. In fact, they hold their composure quite well. I went through the same deal (bookshelves in the 1000 range) and the speakers that caught my ear were the Revel's (which I bought), and B&W CM1. B&W just came out with the CM5 recently which has a bigger woofer and is easier to drive, so that might be a speaker to check out as well, although you may have to stretch your budget a bit. I was also interested in the NHT Classic 3, but could not find it anywhere to audition. Good luck.

nightflier
01-06-2009, 03:29 PM
Just thought I'd throw this into the mix. AudioAdvisor.com is selling Veritas v2.2i Bookshelves for $899:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENVEV2.2I%20BLK