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lars128
03-13-2004, 12:56 PM
I've been the market for floorstanders in the $1000 range, but I'm finding that I can make the step to better bookshelves for the same price. Specifically, B&W DM604's and PSB Stratus minis start to get to this price. So should I look into smaller speakers or stick to the floorstanders? My room is small (12x15) and I live in an apartment (not too loud). Are smaller speakers good for this room size or will I be left wanting more? I really can't guage how these speakers will sound in my home compared to the store. Also, are people buying larger speakers when small ones will do just as good, in kind of a bigger is better mentality?

nusiclover
03-13-2004, 01:40 PM
ok, you are in my shoes 2 months ago. Considering the small sized room and the simple fact that you live in an apartment you should really consider bookshelves. There are good ones in the 1K range. Some that wont sound as muddy as BW 604 are DYnaudio 52 (my first choice for many good reasons) Paradigm would also be good at this price range. BW's 705 is 500 more than you were thinking , but if you love BW then you should definitely consider these. They will blow away the 600 series in a second of your listening to them. Of course, thats my opinion, let your ears do the talking. Good Luck

bacchanal
03-13-2004, 08:38 PM
I did the exact same thing that you are considering. I started ou looking for floorstanders in the $600-$800 range, but I'm getting the Paradigm Studio 40s (V3)...they're a larger 2 1/2 way speaker that (to me) sounded darn good against some of the floor standers I compared them to. They retail for $1100, but you can probably find them for a little below that. I would definitely give them a listen if you can. They're quite precise throughout they're full range, have very little distortion, and a surprising lower range. Oh and be sure to listen to them with the grills on...it makes an audible difference.

RGA
03-13-2004, 08:46 PM
I've been the market for floorstanders in the $1000 range, but I'm finding that I can make the step to better bookshelves for the same price. Specifically, B&W DM604's and PSB Stratus minis start to get to this price. So should I look into smaller speakers or stick to the floorstanders? My room is small (12x15) and I live in an apartment (not too loud). Are smaller speakers good for this room size or will I be left wanting more? I really can't guage how these speakers will sound in my home compared to the store. Also, are people buying larger speakers when small ones will do just as good, in kind of a bigger is better mentality?

Generally a standmount will out-perform, for the same money, a floorstander. Except bass depth. But you can always buy a sub later.

In an apartment the 602S3 will easily provide a great deal of bass response and ois an all around good buy.

There are a lot of excellent speakers out there in the $1000.00 range. GO out and listen. Ask the dealer if you can borrow some to try at out at home. I often find that speakers sound better at home. It's not really importnt to have a home audition...what IS important is that you compare speakers with the same equipment in the SAME room. If that's at a dealer or your house it makes no difference. Just so long as both speakers you're testing get an equal shake.

Your budget may get you into an Audio Note standmount. They are plain looking but if they're in your area it would certainly behoove you to take a listen. Some of the advantages this speaker provides that B&W and most of the big funded brands do not are:

High sensitivity AND High efficiency: What this means is if you ever want a low powered Solid state or Tube amplifier - even as little as 5 watts per channel you can get plentiful sound.

Bass and dynamics unparalleled by any speaker their size.

Easy positioning - like to go in corners to use the walls as re-inforcement - very similar to one of the best speakers in the world the Klipsch Klipschhorn - but not a horn.

All speakers are internally upgradeable. Range in price from $800.00 to $30,000.00US. (Speakers are one of their cheapest componants).

There is more but suffice it to say many reviewers from Stereophile, Hi Fi Choice, enjoythemusic.com and Positive Feedback actually own Audio Note speakers - which IMO says more than just giving one a great review. Since they all get a great review due to satisfying the advertising to fund the magazine...I like to see what they own. This doesn't mean you too will like them...but IMO it does make them something worth a listen. There are some deals out there.

Of course Dynaudio and B&W are not exactly slouches. But the N805 against the Audio Note K wasn't really close. The N805 won out in only one area IMO...Aesthetics. The An was cheaper - not by much but still. Von Sweikert is getting good press and probably worth a look as well.

bacchanal
03-13-2004, 09:59 PM
Yes, the B&W 602S3s should be on your list. I was certainly impressed when I heard them, and I think they're reasonably priced. They have a nice full sound with adequate bass and a nice clear midrange, but I don't think they spread the sound quite as well I'd like. I'd say they're better for a multi channel situation than for a stereo set up. That being said I never really cranked the 602S3s, so I can't say how they perform at the higer volumes. I think they're sens is rated at 89, so they're a little more difficult to drive than the average bookshelf.
A couple others to consider are Boston VRM50s, and VRM60s. They're small and expensive. I think the VRM60s retail for $1000. They really don't have that much of a lower range, but the mids and highs are very good and the soundstage is impressive for their size. You'd pretty much have to use a sub with them, but they're something to look at if you want something to be heard and not seen.

topspeed
03-14-2004, 02:26 AM
The main problem with floorstanders at this price point is the concessions the manufacturer had to make. Usually it can be found in their questionable cabinet construction and bracing (if any). This is important because the bigger the cabinet, the better the chance for coloration due to cabinet resonance. In addition, standmounts will give you more positioning options, which is important considering your current living situation.

As far as speakers go, the only one that can choose is the one footing the bill. You have a myriad of choices (as you see) and this board in particulary seems to have very strong contingents of Bowers and Wilkins and Pardigm devotees with a growing tribe of Dane worshipers. I just bought Von Schweikert VR1's last week after auditioning everything mentioned in addition to Monitor Audio Gold and Energy Veritas among others.
http://vonschweikert.com/vr1.html
The VR1's are beautifully built w/ real wood veneers and compact yet drop to 40hz, which is lower than any speaker this size has a right to thereby negating the need for a sub (at least for a while). For my purposes they were perfect. YMMV.

They all have their merits and shortcomings. Just go listen to everything you can find and buy what moves you. I'd definitely get standmounts tho.

bacchanal
03-14-2004, 12:44 PM
nice purchase topspeed, those are some nice looking speakers :-)

92135011
03-14-2004, 12:59 PM
I dont know about the 604s, but I found that 602.5 didnt sound as good as 601. Sure the base extention is deeper, but the 601 had better dynamics and clarity. So I guess it depends on the speakers. Why dont you try our some B&W bookshelves like CDM series or maybe a quad (forgot model name). Seriosly, unless you REALLY wanna crank up your speakers, bookshelves are still loud. Just make sure you get a really sturdy stand, or else you may find your bass sloppy or weak, and maybe even one it ending on the floor.

topspeed
03-14-2004, 03:45 PM
nice purchase topspeed, those are some nice looking speakers :-)

They sound even better. I'd never heard of VSA until about 2 months ago. Boy, am I glad I know about them now!

lars128
03-14-2004, 05:18 PM
Thanks for all the replies, I will audition the B&W DM603's ($800/pr) as planned, but may consider CDM1NT''s. This brings another question. Do you think in general that people buy speakers that are too big for thier intended purpose? In other words, are people getting into a p#ssing contest to have the biggest speakers?

Geoffcin
03-14-2004, 05:47 PM
They sound even better. I'd never heard of VSA until about 2 months ago. Boy, am I glad I know about them now!

Nice speaks Topspeed!

Von Schweikert, for all his radical idea about speaker tech, makes one great classic two-way standmount. (albeit with some interesting tech involved)

I think I know where you got your idea about VSA , as one of the big hits from this years CES was the "REALLY BIG" VR-11 speakers being driven by PS Audio gear!

92135011
03-14-2004, 05:53 PM
bigger and bigger contest? for people like me...no. I dont mind having bookshelves just as long as they sound good. I care about looks...but sound comes first. just check out some ugly amps like our good friend sugden and naim nait 3. people bought those for the sound. not for the power they produce either since they are both 30wpc and under. So no, bigger doesnt mean better. I'm sure not in the bigger means better contest.

RGA
03-14-2004, 05:54 PM
No bigger speakers can be better. The reason is simple. Standmounts cannot produce full range sound. Nor can they play as loudly as big floorstanders. You can certainly add a subwoofer to get the bass but you still won't likely be able to play as loud through the midband. It depends on the speakers of course. A lot of floorstanders will play louder and more bass but sound terrible.

Standmounts in smaller to medium rooms should be good enough for most people. But there are good reasons why B&W makes a N802 and N801 speakers. Large rooms.

topspeed
03-15-2004, 08:49 AM
Nice speaks Topspeed!

Von Schweikert, for all his radical idea about speaker tech, makes one great classic two-way standmount. (albeit with some interesting tech involved)

I think I know where you got your idea about VSA , as one of the big hits from this years CES was the "REALLY BIG" VR-11 speakers being driven by PS Audio gear!

Believe it or not Geoff, I found them while searching for a JM Lab dealer as the Chorus line was recommended in my thread searching for bedroom speaks. VSA was one of his other brands along with ML. I did a little research on the company and actually didn't find out about the VR11/PSA demo at CES until after I'd demo'd and decided to purchase the speakers. The VSA/PSA union was just a happy coincidence. BTW, they sound unbelievable when driven by the HCA2. The grip and speed is stunning. Those VR11's are spectacular tho. For $160,000 they'd damn well better be!

Thanks for the kind words.

Geoffcin
03-15-2004, 05:26 PM
Believe it or not Geoff, I found them while searching for a JM Lab dealer as the Chorus line was recommended in my thread searching for bedroom speaks. VSA was one of his other brands along with ML. I did a little research on the company and actually didn't find out about the VR11/PSA demo at CES until after I'd demo'd and decided to purchase the speakers. The VSA/PSA union was just a happy coincidence. BTW, they sound unbelievable when driven by the HCA2. The grip and speed is stunning. Those VR11's are spectacular tho. For $160,000 they'd damn well better be!

Thanks for the kind words.

Yeah, it's nice to see what unlimited funds can get you. Everyone wanted to dance with the VR11's at this years CES. I've got to make it out there one of these years.

bturk667
03-15-2004, 06:55 PM
That depends on the kind of music you listen to. If you listen to music that is bass heavey, then you really need a floor stander. However, if you listen to, say Jazz, then a stand mount should be fine. You are really the on;ly one who can make the right choice!

russkon
03-16-2004, 07:31 AM
i agree with a few of the posts above.... floorstanders are definitely the way to go if you are really into two channel music....

integrating a sub for two channel music is ALWAYS a compromise!!

if you have the space - get floorstanders....

bacchanal
03-16-2004, 01:13 PM
it depends on the situation. like in my case I ended up with the paradigm studio40s which (in my opinion) sounded better than the floor standers I listened to in my budget (bass extension and quality considered). granted they are rather large stand mounted speakers. I don't know if I'd really call them ''book shelf' speakers. anyway, a lot of floorstanders in the <$1000 range seem to be built with HT (and a sub) in mind and really don't have an amazing low end for their size. it all comes down to what works best for the listeners situation of course. but in my case, a floor stander wasn't the answer. I'm in the same situation as lars. i live in an apartment, and I opted to go with a higher quality bookshelf that still had a plenty of dynamic range over a floorstander that could potentially provide more volume

RGA
03-16-2004, 11:09 PM
i agree with a few of the posts above.... floorstanders are definitely the way to go if you are really into two channel music....

integrating a sub for two channel music is ALWAYS a compromise!!

if you have the space - get floorstanders....

Actually it isn't a compromise. It usually SOUNDS like a compromise because nobody knows how to integrate them properly. A speaker maker makes his three way speaker all sound a certain wway and has the corssover set to his liking. A Sub is variable and is suppose to ADD on to some other design. So it's up to you the owner to figure out how to do it. And most of us are not designers so it sounds horrible.

If you buy your SPL meter your parametric EQ, have the ability to move the sub wherever in your room as the sound dictates, and a test disc it can be far better than any one box speaker. For a start you get way more(deeper) and better bass response and you keep the advantages that two way standmounts have over floorstanders - which are midrange clarity, finess, resolution, and speed.

Good bass costs a LOT of money...a good subwoofer(preferably 2) and proper set-up can do it for less.

And then some standmounts like the Audio Note AN E SEC will beat most floorstanders in the bass department or most any other department.

46minaudio
03-17-2004, 06:09 AM
And then some standmounts like the Audio Note AN E SEC will beat most floorstanders in the bass department or most any other department.
Please,,big ol limb you put yourself on RGA...

markw
03-17-2004, 07:15 AM
Please,,big ol limb you put yourself on RGA...

Since when has this ever stopped him before? I can't wait until someone calls him on this. It's gonna be fun watching him try to weasel out of this one...