Quest for the Two Towers !

[jaytrezza]

I am currently on a mission to help my friend cobble together a budget H/T System. We currently have a Def-Tech Mythos 7 center 2 SpeakerCraft in ceiling Aim 8 surrounds. We are now searching for the perfect towers at a budget price say $500-$600 per pair.His little audio snobbery won't allow him to purchase anything that you could find @ brick and mortar big box stores (best buy ,Circuit city etc...) but he is running into high prices. He has inquired much on Craig's list, which i am luke warm to( i prefer new speakerts in factory sealed boxes) are there any innovative or creative suggetions to help mus on our Quest?

Thank you in advance,
JT

[RoadRunner6]

Mixing brands is a big no-no especially with in ceiling speakers thrown in. The most important feature in a 5.1 system is having all 5 speakers from the same brand and same series with the exact same tweeter for smooth all around voicing/timbre (this makes a huge improvement). If you must keep the Def Tech center then be sure to get Def Tech fronts with the same tweeter.

Have him sell the Def Tech center and match these with a good sub.

http://emotiva.com/shop/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=25

Read the review at Audioholics. This is a great system at an amazing special price.

RR6

[RoadRunner6]

I checked Def Tech. There are two perfect matches for that center Mythos 7. One is the Mythos 5 tower which lists for $600 each. Maybe you can find them used.

Better yet go with the Mythos Gem at $279 each. It is a small speaker, but don't be fooled. All you need is a sub to take over the frequencies from about 80-100Hz and down.

The Emotiva system above is still far superior.

RR6

[pixelthis]

I checked Def Tech. There are two perfect matches for that center Mythos 7. One is the Mythos 5 tower which lists for $600 each. Maybe you can find them used.

Better yet go with the Mythos Gem at $279 each. It is a small speaker, but don't be fooled. All you need is a sub to take over the frequencies from about 80-100Hz and down.

The Emotiva system above is still far superior.

RR6

BEEN on the crack pipe again?
DEF TECH is an established company, had a few of their speakers.
The titanium tweeters tend to drill into the skull a tad, but they are probably far superior to anything contracted out by emotiva.
AND they did contract these out, just like their amps, had to.
Takes awhile to build a decent speaker manufacturing concern.
Get the matching def techs, they will probably be better, but I WOULD GET A HIGHER line type, probably one with a powered sub.
Speakers are for a long time(mine have been around awhile),
they are the durable goods of the HT hobby.
GET some nice ones.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Read this below and then come back and mouth off some more. The guys at Emotiva designed these speakers from the ground up. This is a very inovative design with high quality drivers and crossovers. This is no Fluance junk! Of course they are assembled in China. Wharfedale has moved their entire operation there. My latest Nikon prime 50mm 1.8 lens is assemlbed in China. It has one of the highest lens PQ ratings of any lens made.

Too bad you mouth off when you have no idea what you are talking about. I have spent many hours and many days of research checking out Emotiva before I sent them a dime for my new amp. Buying a quality product direct from the factory saves tons of money. I like Def Tech speakers a lot and have recommended their Pro Cinema series to many. But I don't prefer to share the profit with evey one down the line. The direct to buyer trend is growing. Some are el cheapo companies and other like Axiom, HSU, SVS, AV123 and Emotiva to mention a few do it right. Emotiva is perhaps the most impressive I have seen so far. There are some very sharp product designers at this firm.

I come here and try to help the guy out. Maybe he won't be intertested in the Emotiva speakers. But perhaps others reading my post will investigate them. As I read the info on these speakers at Emotiva's site and also the Audioholics review I knew immediately we had a real winner here. There is a lot of quality and extra very useful features packed into a monitor size speaker in the ERM-1 (13.5 x 7.75 x 9.5 = 994 cu in). The excellent Axiom Audio M3 which I think is a great bookshelf speaker is 13.5 x 8.5 x 8.25 = 947 cu in. The two are almost indentical in size although the Emotiva normally sells for quite a bit more. The Axiom M3 weighs 12.3 lbs and the Emotiva ERM-1 LCR weighs 18 lbs!. That tells me a lot about the quality in this speaker. The ERD-1 surround has a 4 position dipole/bipole switch on the back. Try and find that on another $249/$349 per pair surround speaker.

I also went to the def Tech site and found him the perfect driver matched tower and bookshelf speakers for his Def Tech center channel.

You come here and offer the guy no help and just try to tear down mine and other's advice. If you don't agree then that is fine. Why not do some research and offer some constructive advice for a change.

RR6 :biggrin5:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-review

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28651

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-review/ER_D_back.JPG/image_view_fullscreen

Sometimes I think you must be a clone of Bush! (I feel much better now!)

[pixelthis]

Read this below and then come back and mouth off some more. The guys at Emotiva designed these speakers from the ground up. This is a very inovative design with high quality drivers and crossovers. This is no Fluance junk! Of course they are assembled in China. Wharfedale has moved their entire operation there. My latest Nikon prime 50mm 1.8 lens is assemlbed in China. It has one of the highest lens PQ ratings of any lens made.

YEAH, that CHINESE stuff is great.
The Speakers I bought that were made there lasted a whole six months before the vinyl started peeling off.
So I managed to get my old speakers back, they were made where speakers are supposed to be made...England.



Too bad you mouth off when you have no idea what you are talking about. I have spent many hours and many days of research checking out Emotiva before I sent them a dime for my new amp. Buying a quality product direct from the factory saves tons of money. I like Def Tech speakers a lot and have recommended their Pro Cinema series to many. But I don't prefer to share the profit with evey one down the line. The direct to buyer trend is growing. Some are el cheapo companies and other like Axiom, HSU, SVS, AV123 and Emotiva to mention a few do it right. Emotiva is perhaps the most impressive I have seen so far. There are some very sharp product designers at this firm.

A friend bought a pair of Axiom M80s, has had them for years, nice but they dont age well.
I tried them in my house, but while nice, are nothing spectacular.
Fot 1,000$ they are a nice pair of 500$ speakers, being Axioms top of the line I can't imagine any of their other stuff being any better.
AS FOR EMOTIVAS "sharp product designers" how the frick do you know anything about this company or its speakers?
How long have they been selling speakers? How long have they been in business?
Why buy their stuff when there are established speaker makers
who have been making speakers for decades?
Deftechs are established and been around awhile.
My local Yammy dealer handles them, and for years I have llistened
to them for countless hours, bought a few of them, trust me, I KNOW
a frikkin heck of a lot more about them than you know about Emotiva,
you can't know that much because they havent even been around long enough to be vetted yet.



I come here and try to help the guy out. Maybe he won't be intertested in the Emotiva speakers. But perhaps others reading my post will investigate them. As I read the info on these speakers at Emotiva's site and also the Audioholics review I knew immediately we had a real winner here. There is a lot of quality and extra very useful features packed into a monitor size speaker in the ERM-1 (13.5 x 7.75 x 9.5 = 994 cu in). The excellent Axiom Audio M3 which I think is a great bookshelf speaker is 13.5 x 8.5 x 8.25 = 947 cu in. The two are almost indentical in size although the Emotiva normally sells for quite a bit more. The Axiom M3 weighs 12.3 lbs and the Emotiva ERM-1 LCR weighs 18 lbs!. That tells me a lot about the quality in this speaker. The ERD-1 surround has a 4 position dipole/bipole switch on the back. Try and find that on another $249/$349 per pair surround speaker.

If the "weight" of a speaker tells you a lot about it, well, that explains a LOT.



I also went to the def Tech site and found him the perfect driver matched tower and bookshelf speakers for his Def Tech center channel.

So did I, took about two minutes, but why post it when you already have?


You come here and offer the guy no help and just try to tear down mine and other's advice. If you don't agree then that is fine. Why not do some research and offer some constructive advice for a change.

I did offer some "constructive advice", STICK WITH DEFTECH.
You might not agree but that is what makes a discussion.
I would never advise someone to buy an untested speaker, when they can get a "name" like deftech.
They are not quite refined enough for me, but for HT they can't be beat.
When Emotiva has been around for awhile , like a decade, I COULD SEE BUYING some of their products.
I almost didnt buy my TV because the manufacturer has been around for only five years or so, how long has emotiva been around?:1:


RR6 :biggrin5:



Sometimes I think you must be a clone of Bush! (I feel much better now!)

That is a real compliment considering that he has an I.Q of 173, is
a college grad, and president of the largest country on earth.
THINK what hes' done is so easy?
TRY it sometimes!!!:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Pixelthis says: "he has an I.Q of 173."

More bullshlt pulled out of thin air by the PIX



"..........Roger Dobson
GEORGE W BUSH has the lowest average IQ of all but one American president since the start of the 20th century, according to the estimates of psychological researchers.
He “is definitely intelligent . . . certainly smart enough to be president of the United States”, says Dean Keith Simonton, a psychologist at the University of California.

But his intellect falls below all other presidents of the past 110 years except Warren Harding, who was in the White House briefly in the 1920s and regarded as a failed president.

Bush’s estimated IQ is about 20 points below that of his predecessor, Bill Clinton, “a disparity that may have created a contrast effect that made any intellectual weaknesses all the more salient”

Simonton has drawn up a table of estimated presidential intelligence by amassing data created by other researchers. Writing in the journal Political Psychology he says that estimates of Bush’s IQ range between 111.1 and 138.5, with a mean of 120, “which is about the average for a college graduate in the United States”..........."


RR6

[pixelthis]

Pixelthis says: "he has an I.Q of 173."

More bullshlt pulled out of thin air by the PIX



"..........Roger Dobson
GEORGE W BUSH has the lowest average IQ of all but one American president since the start of the 20th century, according to the estimates of psychological researchers.
He “is definitely intelligent . . . certainly smart enough to be president of the United States”, says Dean Keith Simonton, a psychologist at the University of California.

But his intellect falls below all other presidents of the past 110 years except Warren Harding, who was in the White House briefly in the 1920s and regarded as a failed president.

Bush’s estimated IQ is about 20 points below that of his predecessor, Bill Clinton, “a disparity that may have created a contrast effect that made any intellectual weaknesses all the more salient”

Simonton has drawn up a table of estimated presidential intelligence by amassing data created by other researchers. Writing in the journal Political Psychology he says that estimates of Bush’s IQ range between 111.1 and 138.5, with a mean of 120, “which is about the average for a college graduate in the United States”..........."


RR6


Next time go by what actual I.Q tests he took, instead of the
guesstimation of a bunch of "experts" who don't know squat.
I read this a long time ago, cant remember where, but it came from his school records.
And you say I am full of "B.S.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Lay some more BS on us. Here's a test for you. What's the square root of 69?

************************************************

IQ Hoaxes and Rumors of Stupidity Debunked
All indicators exclude President George Bush from being a total nitwit. He is very intelligent as his IQ to SAT Scores indicate. His combined SAT score of 1206 indicates that he has an estimated IQ Score of 125 which is well above average intelligence.

It appears that some democrats who were bashing George Bush wanted to exalt former President Clinton. They falsely list Bill Clinton's IQ Score at 182 when in fact it is closer to 137. So that's IQ myth debunked number 2.

Uma Thurman has a some fanatical "goddess worshipers" as they refer to themselves that claims that she has an IQ Score of 183. However, we can find no proof of any test or exam that reveals her true IQ.

Actress and Singer, Jessica Simpson does not have an IQ of 160; at least that's what I thought until I read this article on www.people.com/ " Jessica Simpson's mom told Vanity Fair that Jessica was given an IQ test in fifth grade after her teacher called her a "space cadet." Tina Simpson claims her daughter scored a 160, which is genius level."

Dallas Cowboy's Quarterback Tony Romo IQ is estimated at 124 - 125. His Wonderlic NFL QB Test was scored at 30.

Paris Hilton is not a member of MENSA. We can't find anything to suggest that Paris or Jessica could score higher than average intelligence on a supervised IQ test.

Britney Spears is not in MENSA. Nothing to indicate that Britney Spears has an IQ above average intelligence. She has no SAT college scores. The IQ of Britney Spears is probably 100. It seems as if Britney is suffering from signs of bi polar illness. However, that has no impact on her IQ level but her judgment seems impaired.

Who Is The Smartest Person In The World?

Who Has The Highest IQ In The World?
Kim Ung Yong is the smartest person in the world! His IQ Score is rated at a hefty 210! The following excerpt is from Wikipedia... "Kim Ung-Yong is a Korean former child prodigy. He scored a 210 IQ on the Stanford-Binet test according to the Guinness Book of World Records.

That IQ Score makes him the smartest person in the world. Many sites list either Marilyn Vos Savant or Chris Langan improperly as the smartest person in the world but its clear, hands down, Kim Yong from Korea is the smartest person in the world.



The Smartest Woman In The World?
The highest recorded IQ Score for a living female goes to Marilyn Vos Savant. She has an IQ Score of 186. Marilyn Vos Savant is a national columnist and author. Her syndicated column is called Ask Marilyn. She is an executive at Jarvik Heart, Inc.

She is married to Dr. Ron Jarvik who is the creator of the world's first artificial heart. You see him almost nightly on prime time USA news commercials for Lipitor.

The Smartest President of The USA
John Quincy Adams was rated as the smartest of all the presidents. His IQ score was estimated to be 175.

The Dumbest Person at this Forum
Pixlethis with an IQ of 82 (computer estimated).

[pixelthis]

Lay some more BS on us. Here's a test for you. What's the square root of 69?

************************************************

IQ Hoaxes and Rumors of Stupidity Debunked
All indicators exclude President George Bush from being a total nitwit. He is very intelligent as his IQ to SAT Scores indicate. His combined SAT score of 1206 indicates that he has an estimated IQ Score of 125 which is well above average intelligence.

It appears that some democrats who were bashing George Bush wanted to exalt former President Clinton. They falsely list Bill Clinton's IQ Score at 182 when in fact it is closer to 137. So that's IQ myth debunked number 2.

Uma Thurman has a some fanatical "goddess worshipers" as they refer to themselves that claims that she has an IQ Score of 183. However, we can find no proof of any test or exam that reveals her true IQ.

Actress and Singer, Jessica Simpson does not have an IQ of 160; at least that's what I thought until I read this article on www.people.com/ " Jessica Simpson's mom told Vanity Fair that Jessica was given an IQ test in fifth grade after her teacher called her a "space cadet." Tina Simpson claims her daughter scored a 160, which is genius level."

Dallas Cowboy's Quarterback Tony Romo IQ is estimated at 124 - 125. His Wonderlic NFL QB Test was scored at 30.

Paris Hilton is not a member of MENSA. We can't find anything to suggest that Paris or Jessica could score higher than average intelligence on a supervised IQ test.

Britney Spears is not in MENSA. Nothing to indicate that Britney Spears has an IQ above average intelligence. She has no SAT college scores. The IQ of Britney Spears is probably 100. It seems as if Britney is suffering from signs of bi polar illness. However, that has no impact on her IQ level but her judgment seems impaired.

Who Is The Smartest Person In The World?

Who Has The Highest IQ In The World?
Kim Ung Yong is the smartest person in the world! His IQ Score is rated at a hefty 210! The following excerpt is from Wikipedia... "Kim Ung-Yong is a Korean former child prodigy. He scored a 210 IQ on the Stanford-Binet test according to the Guinness Book of World Records.

That IQ Score makes him the smartest person in the world. Many sites list either Marilyn Vos Savant or Chris Langan improperly as the smartest person in the world but its clear, hands down, Kim Yong from Korea is the smartest person in the world.



The Smartest Woman In The World?
The highest recorded IQ Score for a living female goes to Marilyn Vos Savant. She has an IQ Score of 186. Marilyn Vos Savant is a national columnist and author. Her syndicated column is called Ask Marilyn. She is an executive at Jarvik Heart, Inc.

She is married to Dr. Ron Jarvik who is the creator of the world's first artificial heart. You see him almost nightly on prime time USA news commercials for Lipitor.

The Smartest President of The USA
John Quincy Adams was rated as the smartest of all the presidents. His IQ score was estimated to be 175.

The Dumbest Person at this Forum
Pixlethis with an IQ of 82 (computer estimated).

So your entire argument that "estimating" I.Q was blown out of the water by your last statement.
My tested "I.Q" was 138,
IN HIGH SCHOOL.
So much for your "guesstimating" :1:

[pixelthis]

I TOOK ELECTRONICS in high school, because being poor,
the guidiance counselor was too preoccupied with getting her airheaded cheerleaders and football players into the right colleges.
It was a course where we spent half a day in "electronics", the rest in some kind of babysitting class or other.
One day we got a set in with the color off balance, me and my buddy
took it apart and put it back together, and the color wasstill
screwed up.
One of my class projects was a three stage amp, all I could afford,
but a more well off classmate let me help with the construction of his project, an osciloscope.
the point is, I WAS DOING THIS STUFF BEFORE I EVEN GOT OUTTA
HIGH SCHOOL.
And while not an "engineer" by any strech, my engineer teacher instilled a few basic principles in us, like K.I.S.S
(keep it simple stupid) a principle that Plasma violates on every front.
And while a lot of my electronics "knowledge" has faded over the years,
I still know more about the subject than you ever will.
And not just that subject, I used to read four or five books a week,
read GEORGE ORWELL in the fourth grade, ATLAS SHRUGGED
in the ninth.
I guess basically what I am saying is that if I am an "idiot" (which is what you are calling me by implying that my I.Q is 82) then you are
a friggin houseplant you friggin moron.
I was using a slide rule when I was fourteen, ASS.:1:

[pixelthis]

I GUESS one of the reasons I stay around here is to challenge the
word skills of the idiots on here.
So far this week I have been called "inbred" (rich) a redneck(rich again) and a "moron" (roadrunner).
AND the usual childhood insults from sir talky, which is appropriate
since he probably IS a child, playing on the computer.
Come on guys! YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT.
Dont worry about the mods, the only time they ever censor anybody is when they insult anybody else, I AM FAIR GAME.
I have spent,(as a hobby) a fair amount of time on boards like this,
doing my level best to blow the various superstitions, misbeliefs,
and just plain felkercarb that so called "experts" call knowledge outta the water, but the total amount of dumbassery on this site is beyond even ME.
But that is alright, a fair majority of you are buying into the whole plasma lie, in order to help pay for the massive amount of bucks the industry has sunk into this crappy tech, doesnt matter that in a few years, when they start to fail, you will be stuck with the bill.
THEY KNOW that , being video junkies, you will have to buy another set, you are a captive audience.
SO , as usual I will have the last laugh, like when "tube" audio advocates finally get tired of putting up with the reality of dealing with
1934 tech.
In spite of what you think, I have had some experience with this tech,
and there is a reason I DESPISE THIS TECHNOLOGY
so much, and you who are buying these shiny new sets will come face
to face with the reality of this tech sooner rather than later.
BUT the important thing is that you will be bailing out the companies
that sank millions into this stuff before LCD got cheap.
I am sure they appreaciate it, enough to sell you a NEW set with a more stable tech when that rube goldberg radiation emiting cobbled
together piece of junk fails.
After they have gotten their investment back, of course.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

In another post earlier this year you stated you had an IQ of 130. Now that has increased to 138?

You state: ".....one of the reasons I stay around here is to challenge the
word skills of the idiots on here......" That from a guy who says "me and my buddy" instead of "my buddy and I." Apparently that "guidiance (sic) counselor" wasn't able to get you into any English classes. Sounds like "dumbassery" to me to quote an inbred idiot with an Q of 138.

"while a lot of my electronics "knowledge" has faded over the years" ..... the understatement of the year on this forum!

"I was using a slide rule when I was fourteen" Oh yeah, the old joke, "Did you hear about the constipated mathematician? ... he worked it out with a slide rule."

For your edification the square root of 69 is 8 something.

I will admit you did play an awesome banjo part on Dueling Banjos! (I took the liberty of going back to the photo archives from Pix's high school)

RR6

[Wits]

{Partial post deleted due to length--Wits}
I come here and try to help the guy out. Maybe he won't be intertested in the Emotiva speakers. But perhaps others reading my post will investigate them. As I read the info on these speakers at Emotiva's site and also the Audioholics review I knew immediately we had a real winner here. There is a lot of quality and extra very useful features packed into a monitor size speaker in the ERM-1 (13.5 x 7.75 x 9.5 = 994 cu in). The excellent Axiom Audio M3 which I think is a great bookshelf speaker is 13.5 x 8.5 x 8.25 = 947 cu in. The two are almost indentical in size although the Emotiva normally sells for quite a bit more. The Axiom M3 weighs 12.3 lbs and the Emotiva ERM-1 LCR weighs 18 lbs!. That tells me a lot about the quality in this speaker. The ERD-1 surround has a 4 position dipole/bipole switch on the back. Try and find that on another $249/$349 per pair surround speaker.

I also went to the def Tech site and found him the perfect driver matched tower and bookshelf speakers for his Def Tech center channel.

You come here and offer the guy no help and just try to tear down mine and other's advice. If you don't agree then that is fine. Why not do some research and offer some constructive advice for a change.

RR6 :biggrin5:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-review

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28651

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/emotiva-er-5-0-speaker-system-review/ER_D_back.JPG/image_view_fullscreen

Sometimes I think you must be a clone of Bush! (I feel much better now!)
Very informative, thanks RR6! This is the kind of post I am looking for: While it's nice to have someone say "buy a Widgetron 5000", I get a lot more use from a post that says "concentrate on XYZ company and here are some articles to read which may help".

What I'd like to see even further (that maybe I'm just too dumb to have found yet) is a guide that explains:
1). What I need in each component to accomplish my goals. For example, receivers are very complex, and offer a ton of features. There are so many acronyms for things they do that they totally overwhelm a newbie like myself, even after looking at them for going on three months. So if it is possible to write a guide that breaks down, say, two or three levels of gear from totally entry-level to mid-range (say not over $1000 for a receiver.) i.e., is having Burr-Brown something more important than having Fouchard something? As you can probably tell, I pulled those from memory so I probably messed them both up:o

2). Which pieces I should get for a proper start on a Home Theater, and in which order they should be purchased in the event that they cannot be bought all at the same time.

3). Please understand that what I'm asking for is for Newbies such as myself, so I don't think it'll (I hope it won't) be as hard as it originally appears.

Thanks a bunch for any insight, opinions, flames, etc. :crazy:
P.S. pixelthis, the flame invitation doesn't apply to you! :hand: :p
P.P.S. pixelthis, I'm at a loss. If you hate plasma technology so much, what do you gain by spending so much time and energy on message boards such as this, taking every possible opportunity to either bash the technology and/or the people who say they are considering that technology for their next purchase; or you try to convince them that they are making a mistake. Are you a self-styled crusader out to save the masses from a horrible mistake that will ultimately lead to tragedy? It would seem to me that the rational approach on your part would be to watch and enjoy your LCD tv, and leave the poor ignorant people who are buying plasma to their own foolish ways, no? Surely you know that since the death penalty isn't a deterrent to crime, your tirade on a message board has no deterrent to sway the readers to avoid plasma tv's! :wink5:

[02audionoob]

Somewhere up there in all this mess it is stated that Dubya is president of the largest country on earth.

[RoadRunner6]

Thanks Wits, there are many here who are much more knowledgeable than me. However, I do concentrate on low to medium priced equipment due to the fact that I have always been financially challenged. If I have a good trait it is my nose for identifying great buys. Having been in factory, distributor and retail marketing and sales (in other products) in the past helps me to separate the sales BS from the relevant.

I consequently tend to stear towards the online dealers and also the direct to buyer companies. I feel that I have a knack at getting the most for the price/performance ratio. This is one reason I avoid any product that I believe has little or no audible, visual or financial advantage. Good examples are expensive wire and connectors, power conditioners, and extended warranties. I buy my connectors and speaker wire at Home Depot, Monprice, Accessories 4 Less, or other online sources at steep discounts. Leave the premium high end accessories for those that can afford them and are trying to tweak their systems to the last degree. Put the bulk of your money into speakers, receivers, video displays and source components.

Speakers: Get the highest sensitivity (also called efficiency) speakers you can while still liking the sound. This will save you from having to buy high power receivers or amps to reproduce high volumes with the dynamic range inherit in many movies and some music. Search and study the relationship between power in watts and speaker volume rated in decibels. Understand also the speaker sensitivity rating. Buy bookshelf/sub systems. The bookshelf speakers have all the bass extension you need (down to 60-80Hz at -3dB's) when you use a sub and tend to have superior imaging and natural midranges. The disadvantage is that you usually need stands (but they are cheap) and also they are slightly less sensitive than towers. Towers waste low bass and enclosure costs that you do not need which is handled by the sub. If you have the funds towers have built in stands and are higher sensitivity but still cross them over at or near 80Hz for the cleanest bass. Have all 5 speakers from the same brand and series. They have the same exact tweeter and many times the same midrange driver for perfect surround voicing/timbre. This is extremely important. Do not start with two speakers then add a center and surrounds from other brands! If you piece together the speakers make sure the front two have exact matches available until you can buy the other 3. Understand that speakers sound very different in different rooms (the dealers versus your home, etc.) and even in different places in the same room. Bass is very dependent on where it is reproduced in the room. Google any speaker you are interested in and follow the speaker brand and model with the word "review' ... you usually will find many pro and user reviews, read them. I have bought speakers without ever having actually listened to them and I have always found the pro reviews quite accurate. Yes, listen to them in person if you can but don't avoid the online direct speakers which usually have a 30 day return policy. The sub which can be placed in a number of locations is a big advantage over a large tower that has low bass capability but has only one reasonable location in the room (learn about standing waves). Understand that rooms with no sound absorption are bad for accoustics. The more carpets, drapes and upolstered furniture the better. Subs are extremely important in a system. Do not skimp on the sub. Do not buy the little cube subs. They have many compromises to compensate for the tiny enclosure and are way overpriced for comparable performance to a regular size sub. Some 8" subs are better than some 10 or 12" subs. Quality is more important. Read as much as you can on sub placement in a room. How you set up the speakers; setting the relative volume and the crossover to the sub is very important. Equalizers, external or either in the receiver, on the speaker or the sub can be very helpful. One of the the best investments you can buy is a Radio Shack analog sound meter, do not buy the digital model. You can get it online from RS. A frequency test CD from a source such as Rives Audio is also very helpful. You can Google for lots of sites that give advice on how to use these items as well as Rives themselves.

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/TestCD.html

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=2032057.2032187.2032193.2032222&parentPage=family

This is the best $66 you can spend for Christmas to improve the overall sound of a stereo or surround system. It really does make an audible improvement. The human ear is not nearly as exact as this meter and also the auto room correction systems on many low to medium receivers need help with manual checks.

Suggest you start by visiting sites that have good tutorials on audio and home theater. Read what they have and you will find yourself quickly becoming more knowledgeable than 9 out of 10 salespeople at BB. I like to print them out and read them on my breaks at work. Some of these sites are trying to sell products but their advice is well worth the spam. You might have to search around a little to find the articles and tutorials.

www.timefordvd.com
www.axiomaudio.com (see articles)
www.audioholics.com (see AV University)
www.crutchfield.com (see learning center)


Or look here:

http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?encquery=c732dc35f20bca420bbad10473fefed646 852e8a3ff14a2b&invocationType=keyword_rollover&ie=UTF-8

I'm out of time but will post more here on Receivers, TV's etc. tommorow or later.

Hope this helps,
RR6

[pixelthis]

Very informative, thanks RR6! This is the kind of post I am looking for: While it's nice to have someone say "buy a Widgetron 5000", I get a lot more use from a post that says "concentrate on XYZ company and here are some articles to read which may help".

What I'd like to see even further (that maybe I'm just too dumb to have found yet) is a guide that explains:
1). What I need in each component to accomplish my goals. For example, receivers are very complex, and offer a ton of features. There are so many acronyms for things they do that they totally overwhelm a newbie like myself, even after looking at them for going on three months. So if it is possible to write a guide that breaks down, say, two or three levels of gear from totally entry-level to mid-range (say not over $1000 for a receiver.) i.e., is having Burr-Brown something more important than having Fouchard something? As you can probably tell, I pulled those from memory so I probably messed them both up:o

2). Which pieces I should get for a proper start on a Home Theater, and in which order they should be purchased in the event that they cannot be bought all at the same time.

3). Please understand that what I'm asking for is for Newbies such as myself, so I don't think it'll (I hope it won't) be as hard as it originally appears.

Thanks a bunch for any insight, opinions, flames, etc. :crazy:
P.S. pixelthis, the flame invitation doesn't apply to you! :hand: :p
P.P.S. pixelthis, I'm at a loss. If you hate plasma technology so much, what do you gain by spending so much time and energy on message boards such as this, taking every possible opportunity to either bash the technology and/or the people who say they are considering that technology for their next purchase; or you try to convince them that they are making a mistake. Are you a self-styled crusader out to save the masses from a horrible mistake that will ultimately lead to tragedy? It would seem to me that the rational approach on your part would be to watch and enjoy your LCD tv, and leave the poor ignorant people who are buying plasma to their own foolish ways, no? Surely you know that since the death penalty isn't a deterrent to crime, your tirade on a message board has no deterrent to sway the readers to avoid plasma tv's! :wink5:


Your questions are difficult because they have different answers
for different people, also there is the "point of view" issue, mainly that a lot on this board have been doing this for so long that they have forgotten their first baby steps.
BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO ASSESS YOUR NEEDS .
Sorry but that is basically it.
Do you need the new formats? HDMI switching?
CONSIDER THAT AND OTHER QUESTIONS WHEN BUYING A RECEIVER, or anything else.
And you will make mistakes , we all do from time to time.
I bought a set of Klipsch speakers, had to have em, missed my b&w
set after about a month.
As for the whole plasma thing, trust me, this is going to be the biggest
class action lawsuit in history.
If you want a plasma fine, but a lot are misinformed about the subject,
they dont understand that using an unstable gas that emits radiation over a broad spectrum by turning it into a different state of matter with a 30,000 VOLT power supply for a very slight improvement in black level is not only stupid BUT INSANE.
Just take the back offa one some time .
I have been following the plasma debacle since they first came out,
with the major problem being (are you ready) POOR BLACKLEVEL.
In the long run it will all be mute anyway, the current generation
buying these things will stick the next generation with disposing of them when they stwitch to OLED in about five years.
THAT IS IF ANY ARE STILL RUNNING IN FIVE YEARS.:1:

[jaytrezza]

Your research and insight is invaluable. I tend to back off a little when I am finished purchasing. Anyway my friend decided to go all Def Tech all the way around ceiling ,towers and center. I don't know which exact seies he settled on but You will be the first to know. As long I have you here(hopefully) I have a budget system starting with a Sony STR-DG520(want to upgrade to Onkyo TX-SR605 etc) with Klipsch Icon series VF-35's Klipsch SC.5 center Polk Audio R-15's in the rear and an Energy ESW-8 sub. What do you think of this array(besides the non-matching factor, ) I really would like an expert opinion that i can build further knowledge on. Harsh critism welcome!!

[RoadRunner6]

Thanks Jay for the kind comments. Sorry, we interrupted your thread with some nonsense, we get off the subject around here a lot.

I really can't evaluate your system without commenting on the mismatched speakers. This is absolutely essential to any decent surround sound performance. I would be interested in what order you attained your system.

I have the feeling you got the Klipsch SC.5 before the others. Maybe the Polks were originally a front pair?

OK, first the Kipsch VF-35. Looks like a decent floorstanding speaker. This has extremely high efficiency (sensitivty) of 96dB and will play very loud even with the Sony. A con is that it is a series apparently made exclusively for BB. That locks you into them on this series. Also it is much more efficient than your other speakers.

The center is an older Klipsch entry level center of above average efficiency, 91dB. It probably is an OK match voice/timbre wise for the VF-35 but a slight mismatch in efficiency.

The Polk is an OK (entry level) bookshelf speaker of average 89dB efficiency, more of a mismatch in efficiency and sound voicing.

The Energy ESW-8 sub is an excellent quality 8" sub. It is mainly designed for satellite speakers or small to medium bookshelf speakers. It is a decent match for your center and surrounds but not your towers.

Your Sony STR-DG520 is an entry level receiver. It does not have many extra bells and whistles but is decent for basic surround sound. It is actually not that bad of a little receiver with plenty of power for the VF=35's.

Your system is basically a good example of a throw it together system mainly due to the mismatch of the speakers. Not only are they mismatched mainly due to the Polks but you have a loud fairly large tower with a small center and small bookshelf speaker in the rear.

Upgrading to the Onkyo 605 or 606 will give you little improvement in sound.

My advice is to concentrate on your speakers first and then upgrade the receiver. The Onkyo 605 or 606 are great choices in that price range. You have made one of the common mistakes in my opinion, going with a big sexy looking tower and underbuying on the sub. If I would have advised you I would have had you buy the VB-15 bookshelf for the front left and right and the VC-25 for the center and VS-14 for the surrounds presuming you wanted to stay with the Icon series at BB. Then I would have had you get a better sub from HSU, SVS or Outlaw Audio.

I am presuming you want to keep the VF-35's because they are probably your most recent and most expensive (by far) purchase. If that is the case I would encourage you to sell the center and the Polks (sell the Polks first because they are the biggest mismatch). Replace them with the Klipsch VC-25 and VS-14 which will give you a perfectly voice matched system all around. Later I would try to upgrade the sub. I say this about the sub because the Energy ESW-8 will not be able to keep up with the volume levels you would be able to attain if you in fact do play your music and movies at high levels.

Any way you go or staying with your current speakers, I recommend that you set all 5 speakers in the setup menu to "small' (not large, even on the VF-35's) and set the crossover on the receiver to 80Hz.

Sorry, I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but it's my honest opinion. Good luck.

RR6 :D

[MDL]

RR6,

Please forgive my intrusion; I've posted a few question about HDTV's (Panasonic 58PZ800), AVR's (Denon 3808) and subwoofers (Rel T2 or SVS PB12-PLUS), but you have not provided any feedback. I'm upgrading from SD to HD and think your research and knowledge would be invaluble. We all have different taste and opions on these subject, thus the advantage of a forum (both positive and negitive)!! I'm retired military and not very informed on this subject, but you are and we (military) would call you and others individuals a Subject Matter Experts (SME). Can I start a thread with my question and have you provide feedback??

[RoadRunner6]

Hi MDL, thanks for the nice comments. However, there are many here who are far more knowledgeable than I. I will take a look at your threads/posts and get back to you in one of them a little later. (RoadRunner6 was my radio call sign in Nam)

RR6

[MDL]

Thank you for the feedback and I look forward to your input! Retired USN UDT/SEAL-EOD 32 years.

[RoadRunner6]

OK, I posted a response on your other thread.

I'm not up on all the navy seal stuff but UDT means "underwater demolition technician" ??? maybe like in "frogman." EOD, maybe "explosive ordinance disposal" ??? Anyway, sounds like a real bang, a laid back and plush job! (:biggrin5:).

I'll take the liberty of posting a photo of a few navy seals preparing for a misison. They're sunning, and drinking a few beers in their jacuzzi raft just before setting out on the mission.

RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

[pixelthis]

Hi MDL, thanks for the nice comments. However, there are many here who are far more knowledgeable than I.

RR6

UNDERSTATEMENT OF the year.
:1:

[jaytrezza]

Thanks for the input on my mismatched system...but I have an update.

I upgraded the sony str-dg520 to Pioneer VSX 818v(the 919 was practically the same for 100 dollars more. As you probably can tell my first priority is price.I ordered from Vann's.com, a favorite of mine for now, 2 new surrounds...you recommende the vc-25 and vs-14 respectively but i paid $99.98 for the klipsch ss.5 's to match the sc.5. I am going to live with that until i can upgrade to my dream speakers, Paradigm monitors or the like(some Thiels maybe?) after very close listening to the polk r-15's i really heard some funky tweeter action along with timbre mismatch between them and the sc.5. so i am trying to train my ears better. i like the energy esw-8 sub but do not want to turn it up too much (my wife and i own a condo and i have had some complaints of pictures and walls shaking and rattling) so i am trying to be courteous.but unless i turn it up,volume past 12 o'clock ,frequency @ around 100hz, it does not really kick in. the receiver has helped drive the towers,i can actually hear them now and it has an ipod connection for my wife's new(christmas present coming via ebay)
5th generation 30gb iPod($160.00 , see what i mean about bottom line pricing? i guess i am looking for some advice on how to makle the best of this situation. if this conversation bores you don't worry about it . i have thick skin.

thanks jay t

[audio amateur]

UNDERSTATEMENT OF the year.
:1:
Because you're more knowledgeable? I can only say that you come across as a stupid idiot. You're hardly any less retarded than SVI.
:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Merci beaucoup, mate!

[audio amateur]

That guy is a prick I wish he would just shut up sometimes

[jaytrezza]

I ran across a bargain set of Fluance AVTHB speaker set of 5 speakers. recommended them to someone because they did not want to spend much and the reviews were encouraging. i was just wondering if there were any opinions on Fluance equipment.

[pixelthis]

Because you're more knowledgeable? I can only say that you come across as a stupid idiot. You're hardly any less retarded than SVI.
:1:

Not because I am more knowlegable, but because there are electronics engineers on this site.
Not to mention that RR's constant spamming on this board about panny plasmas
demonstrates that he knows absolutely nothing about display devices.
Hes puishing these things now, but in a few years when they start to fail, you wont be hearing a word, nary a peep.
Who shoved a bug up your ass, anyway?:1:

[blackraven]

I ran across a bargain set of Fluance AVTHB speaker set of 5 speakers. recommended them to someone because they did not want to spend much and the reviews were encouraging. i was just wondering if there were any opinions on Fluance equipment.

I haven't heard them but have read some reviews and they all said they were Junk.

[jaytrezza]

I might consider the mirage nanosats for my mothers set-up(she's the one i recco-ed the fluance to,but they are towers, and they live in a mobile hame (albeit the friggin' thing is used totally gutted and revamped as only my parents can go overboard!) anyway the do not need big sound . I gave them a sub and a receiver and for $250.00 on amazon or somerwhere, it probably would be better than the fluance?!??!?!??

[RoadRunner6]

I haven't heard them but have read some reviews and they all said they were Junk.

DITTO

[RoadRunner6]

I might consider the mirage nanosats for my mothers set-up(she's the one i recco-ed the fluance to,but they are towers, and they live in a mobile hame (albeit the friggin' thing is used totally gutted and revamped as only my parents can go overboard!) anyway the do not need big sound . I gave them a sub and a receiver and for $250.00 on amazon or somerwhere, it probably would be better than the fluance?!??!?!??

If you live near a Costco check to see if they have this in stock.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28954

RR6

[jaytrezza]

yea i saw the energy system about 3 weeks ago on amazon or vanns.com. they don't want big speakers(they threatend to buy buy a BOSE system!!!????!?!?) i couldn't let them do that right? that's why i steered them to the nano sats. mirage is a good company and the review i read said if you must absolutely have small speakers then the nanos would be a decent way to go.

jayt