Marantz SA8003 Initial Impressions

[blackraven]

Well I took home a demo model of the SA8003 SACDP on loan today.

I first brought it over to my friends house who has the SA8001 with a ARC tube line stage preamp, Belles Hot Rod amp and PSB synchrony speaks. We did AB comparison's and the bottom line is that the 2 units are very similar in sound with the 8003 maybe having deeper bass. Of course the 8003 is not broken in yet. I'll get a little more into the sound of the 8003 in a moment.

The big differences between the 2 are cosmetics and the USB port on the 8003 which can be used as a docking port for your ipod. The 8003 has the same face plate appearance of the more expensive reference line. The 8003 is a better looking unit. It has a more refined look to it.
It has a much more quiet transport mechanism and the drawer opens and closes a bit faster. The remotes are the same cheap remotes and are less user friendly than my 840c's. Unfortunately here in the US it only comes in black, in Europe in also is available in silver.

Now for the sound. Once I got it home to my system, it had the same drawbacks as the 8001 I auditioned in home for 30days. The treble is slightly rolled off and pushed back. Detail and resolution cant compare to the 840c or my modified Music Hall. Transparency was not as good either. Now the good points. It was very analog in sound with a very smooth liquid midrange with much warmth (almost like tube bloom). Bass was pronounced and well composed but not nearly as tight as the 840c but more prominent and pleasing. The best of all, there was no fatigue. CD playback was good not great and SACD playback was very good with a similar soundstage that the Van Alstine DAC had but just not quite as good. Transparency was very good as well but not as good as the 840c or the VA DAC.

I think that overall that I would be happier with the Marantz or the VA DAC because they are so smooth and liquid sounding and really give a boost in bass with my Magnepans. The 8003 does give up some resolution and detail however and I will miss that. Now I have to decide if I want to keep the 8003 or spend another $600 for the Van Alstine Hybrid DAC which has better std cd playback with great transparency, sound stage and better resolution and detail but no ability for SACD.

If you have a system that is a little on the bright side or your looking for a more analog sound, the Marantz may be just the right source to make a difference. If you are considering the 8003, try to find a used 8001 as they sound pretty much the same. In fact there are 2 8001's on Agon going for $600.

[emaidel]

Thanks for the post. As a proud owner of the 8001, I've been waiting for a comparison of it to the new 8003. While I don't find the sound of the 8001 to be somewhat rolled off in the top end as you do, I don't have the slightest chance in hell of ever being able to have not one, but two $1,000+ CD/SACD players at one time to compare. Must be nice...

[Mr Peabody]

amusicdirect.com was blowing out the Reference SA-15, I can't remember the details but that might give you the best of both worlds.

[Ajani]

amusicdirect.com was blowing out the Reference SA-15, I can't remember the details but that might give you the best of both worlds.

Musicdirect is still selling them for $1400... (instead of the usual $2K)....

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks, Ajani. They also allow a 30 day return.

[blackraven]

I've considered the SA15 but the reviews I've read say it is no better than the 8001. Crutchfield also has it for a discount price. Does any one know of any reviews comparing the SA15 with the 8001?

As far as the treble is concerned on the 8003, I'm comparing it to the 840c and a modified Music Hall 25.2 which are known for their detail resolution and crisp treble.

[Mr Peabody]

This guy's comments on the SA-15 mirror yours on the 8003 & 8001, so I can only assume they must have a "house" sound they stick to.

http://www.techradar.com/products/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/cd-players-recorders/sa-15-s1-94608/review

I saw folks refer to a Stereophile review but I couldn't find it for you. My guess you are probably right and wouldn't be happy with the SA-15 if you aren't totally satisfied with the sound of the 8001/03.

I heard the NAD Master SACD player but only on CD. It gave a very warm impression on a very dark background. I was comparing it to an Arcam CD player. The Arcam seemed to have more detail but the NAD gave instruments a more realistic texture and weight, more of a thickness if you will. Although I felt the Arcam had more detail the NAD was so seductive. I was banging my head wondering which one to choose. The guy then brought the T+A player in and some of my trouble was over and some had just begun :) I say all this I guess to suggest you might give the NAD a listen. We were only using one disc so I didn't get a good feel for various types of music. One piece was Jazz with a saxophone which transported me right to a dark smokey club, the sax was so sweet coming off that dark background and it sounded right, not thin like some the more "detailed" units make them sound. It's like I would have been very happy with the NAD if I had not known I might have been missing something. If that unit is available to you I'd be very interested in hearing your impressions of it. I forget what retail is but a local shop here is wanting to move a demo. If interested I could find out a price for you. Spearitsound.com also carry NAD.

[blackraven]

Audio perfection here in MPLS carries NAD, I might check it out later in the week. I havent totally given up on the 8003. The big thing for me is that it is non fatiguing and has more bass. So I could live with it. I will miss some aspects of the 840c, but I still have the modded music hall to use for std cd. The Van Alstine DAC is still an option. I'm going to give Frank a call and see if he will let me bring the 8003 to his house to compare it to his DAC's. Frank always likes a challenge.

By the way, don't take my review wrong, the 8003/8001 are very good CDP's, but they are what they are, a $1K CDP that has its strengths and weaknesses. If I had the money, I would buy the SA111s2.

[JohnMichael]

Blackraven I can make my SA 8001 sound as you describe or the way I like it to sound. How do I do this? By using different IC's. I have two pair of Alpha Core IC's one being the TQ2 and the other the Micropurl. The TQ2 21 guage copper rolls off the highs and warms up the sound. Soundstage is more recessed and there is less distance from the vocalist to the backing band. The Micropurl 25 guage copper has better extension to the highs and with greater depth and seperation of instruments and focus. In the past I have used an AudioQuest IC and felt it warmed up and slowed the timing of music. I suggest you try a different IC and for me a smaller guage seemed to do the trick. I find my SA 8001 to have a very open, extended and non fatiguing treble. Of course I can change IC's and return to the sound you describe.

[Mr Peabody]

The crowd gasps in horror, "No he didn't?" He suggested a difference in the sound of cables? :)

I think an interconnect using silver or that to some degree would add some sparkle to the high end. Transparent uses copper in it's entry level but that is a great cable for letting the highs shine and tightening up the bass.

Good suggestion though. A quality cable can take a system up another notch.

But you have to believe and click your heels together before listening.

[blackraven]

I'm not a big believer in cables making much of a difference but I'll give it a shot. I have Audioquest Corals, Monster m1000i's which really are a nice IC despite having the Monster name, picked them and a pair of m950i's up for $30 each off ebay. (Hi-Fi choice magazine actually gave the m1000's a good review and are one of their recommended components) I will also try a pair of MIT's with the little emf filters.

I'm listening to Christy Baron on SACD right now and its excellent.
I just finished AB testing Shelby Lynn's Just A Little Lovin CD with a burned copy, comparing my modified music hall 25.2 and the 8003.
The sound was fairly similar. The vocals on the 8003 sounded a little more nasal but slightly smoother. Bass was slightly deeper on the 8003 but it was tighter on the MH. Treble just a bit more foward on the MH. The differences were sublte though except for the vocals.

Later I'm going to burn a copy of the Christy Baron Hybrid SACD -(Retrospective, which is an excellent cd) and compare SACD to STD CD.

[Mr Peabody]

I'd be interested to see what the MIT does, it is similar to the Transparent with MIT being first with that style of cable.

A test you might try is to use one of the CD players and see if you can tell a difference between the original and burnt CD. In most instances I can. If you can as well it may skew your A/B comparisons of players. My computer can make a 24 bit copy and it comes as close to making an exact copy as I've heard. Even with that if I back and forth differences can be detected. With a less capable recorder the differences become more obvious.

[JohnMichael]

I'm not a big believer in cables making much of a difference but I'll give it a shot.





Here is a link to the Micropurls that work so well with my SA 8001. They offer a 30 day trial and are about $78 for a 1 meter pair.


http://www.goertzaudio.com/interconnect.html

[audio amateur]

You seem to go through CDP's like they're cracker jack toys:D
Enjoy

[blackraven]

Seems so. The problem with the Cambridge was that there are no dealers here so you have to order it online and decide to keep it or send it back. And it was my wife who originally bought me the 8001 and 840c for a Christmas present without my knowing.

I've also bought a new preamp so now its about system matching.

[Feanor]

...

A test you might try is to use one of the CD players and see if you can tell a difference between the original and burnt CD. In most instances I can. If you can as well it may skew your A/B comparisons of players. My computer can make a 24 bit copy and it comes as close to making an exact copy as I've heard. Even with that if I back and forth differences can be detected. With a less capable recorder the differences become more obvious.

OK. Which sounds better: CD or CDR copy? In principle there is no reason to assume that the original will sound better.

Have you ever attempted to discover whether your CD and CDR copies are bit identical, such as by copying both to separate WAV files on your computer with EAC, then doing a file compare? If they are bit identical, then sound differences in sound come from (a) the ability of you player to read one or the other more error-free, and/or (b) jitter induced by one format versus the other? Even if they are not exactly identical, that is, the 1-4 errors per disc as typically detected by EAC, this tiny incidence of error is almost certainly not the cause of any differences in sound.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm not that skilled with a computer to do that. What ever the cause the difference is there and it's not only on one player that I detect differences. What I hear is a difference in the bass response, copies being boomier and less flat, and in the extreme high end, copies being a bit brighter or etched.

In most instances I prefer the original. One time I recorded something for my daughter and was listening to the copy and the original and that difference in the treble actually made the copy preferrable, it gave it a raw or more live sound that was interesting.

Many times a stand alone recorder didn't cost much more than a typical CD player and I can't imagine them being able to make a perfect copy. I'm sure it's possible to make a perfect copy but at what price to a consumer would this come.

[blackraven]

I put the original in the 8003 and the copy in the music hall. I'll have to try it the other way around and see how it sounds. I also have 2 original copies of Fleetwood Mac Rumors and 2 original copies of Chris Isaak -Heart Shaped World that I will AB.

[I dont know]

Hey all,

New user here. I had to sign up after reading the review on the Sa8001 vs. the 8003. I pasted a copy of my opinion here, that I had previously posted on another site. My review was very different from Blackraven's. Cheers-

My opinion of the Marantz SA8001 vs the 8003 follows. I did a lot of research prior to deciding on the 8001, & upon purchasing, loved the unit. It would not play some multi layer SACD discs. Since the 8001 was discontinued, Marantz offered the 8003 as a replacement, at that time not yet released. I purchased another 8001, concerned that the 8003 may not be an improvement. I was able to do side by side comparisons for about 3 weeks using Martin Logan speakers. The 8003 sounded less refined, much more harsh to my ears. Bass seemed much more muddy, and over driven. The Zylon disc tray is fancy plastic. Compared to the almost rubber type material used in the 8001 tray, I believe Zylon to be a downgrade. When a disc is loaded, you could hear the 8003 spin up from across the room. It was as noisy as my cdrom when burning discs. You could even hear it when selecting different songs. The 8001 is barely noticeable with an ear close to the unit. I sent the 8003 back even though I received it ($100 more retail) for the same price. The 8001 is a stellar unit. There is a very noticable difference in sound between the units, not to mention build quality. I proudly own the SA8001

[emaidel]

My opinion of the Marantz SA8001 vs the 8003 follows. I did a lot of research prior to deciding on the 8001, & upon purchasing, loved the unit. It would not play some multi layer SACD discs.





I proudly own the SA8001

I've experienced problems like that myself, and can usually "trick" the unit into playing them. When pressing the desired track number on the remote results in a "no disc" display in the window (when there is a disc in the tray), I make certain the mode is selected to "SuperAudio CD," and hit "Play." Then the machine seems to load without difficulty, and I simply skip to the track I wanted. I've never experienced any such difficultes with regular CD's.


I'm still amazed at how much better many of my older CD's sound on the 8001, and how wonderful some of the newer SACD's sound. Certainly one of the smartest investments in equipment I"ve ever made.

[I dont know]

[QUOTE=emaidel]I've experienced problems like that myself, and can usually "trick" the unit into playing them.

Yeah, problem is this was a brand new 8001. It wouldn't say no disc, it would say can't play. I tried different combinations as you've described & still received a can't play on 2 out of 3 SACD's. The new one I purchased plays the SACD's the other wouldn't. There was definitely a problem with the first one.

[blackraven]

We found the the 8001 to be much more noisy on spin up than the 8003. (it must be a quality issue) And in a direct head to head comparison on my friends system the 8001 and the un-broken in 8003 sounded exactly the same when we used good IC's on the 8003. With the cheap IC's that Marantz supplied the bass was slightly muddy.
As far as the Zylon tray, it does look like cheap plastic compared to the tray of the 8001 but who am I to say that it is not less resonant than the tray in the 8001 as Marantz claims. Overall the 8003 looks better than the 8001 and sounds about the same in our AB test.

If your leery about buying the 8003 then go for the SA15, its on sale for about $1300 since the new version is coming out soon.

[I dont know]

If your leery about buying the 8003 then go for the SA15, its on sale for about $1300 since the new version is coming out soon.

I feel this is good advice, regarding the SA-15S1 comment. I feel Marantz had a unit that was too good in the 8001. Reputable reviews claim the 8001 sounds similar to the SA-15S1. Why would someone spend double the price, to get a similar sounding unit? I think Marantz addressed this in the 8003 by degrading sound/build quality. The 8003 looks cool, with it's plastic (fiberglass) & aluminum front panel. I think the reference models all use aluminum front panels, hmmm... I can't (I should say couldn't, as I returned the 8003) get excited about the USB capability either. I don't care to listen to compressed files in a reference room. Yeah, I know it plays uncompressed WAV files, but does anyone care? Maybe if it was better integrated. The 8003 is a "decent" sounding MP3 player, that also plays SACD's. Marantz no longer (in my opinion) produces a sub $2K "superb" sounding unit. If you don't do an A/B comparison, this unit is decent, at best if you can get past the roar it creates during initial spin up. I'm betting the 8003 doesn't end up in Stereophiles coveted class A list, as the 8001. Buy the SA-15S1 on sale, as suggested by BR.

[blackraven]

I DON'T KNOW, we must have been listening to 2 different players because we could not tell the 8003 and 8001 apart in sound. And our 8003 had a much more quiet spin up than the 8001. This leads me to believe that it is probably unit dependent and poor quality control issues.

And as far as the SA15 is concerned, i've read reviews where the SA15 has a subtle better sound than the 8001. They question is, is it worth the extra money?

[Ajani]

And as far as the SA15 is concerned, i've read reviews where the SA15 has a subtle better sound than the 8001. They question is, is it worth the extra money?

I think that's the central question that drives all audiophiles... And for high end products, people are willing to pay through the nose for incremental/subtle improvements....

[blackraven]

Every incremental increase in fidelity adds up to make your system sound better.

[Ajani]

Every incremental increase in fidelity adds up to make your system sound better.

Agreed.... It's why the upgrade cycle is never ending....


Though once you upgrade one component, you realize that to get the best out of it, you need upgrade the other components in your system....

The tough part is ensuring that upgrades are really upgrades (and not just changes) & I guess knowing when to stop and just enjoy the music....

[Ajani]

Since the Marantz SA15S1 is being mentioned quite a bit in this thread, I should point out that the 15S2 should be released soon.... It was actually up on Marantz's US website for about a day, before they took it down (presumably they've decided to make changes to it)... but one thing I did notice at the time was that it had an Optical input.... so assuming, the final model retains the optical input, then it will offer at least one real advantage over the 8003/8001... I think they should add a coaxial and USB input as well to the final model....

[tony340]

Blackraven, you have had the 8003 presumably for a few weeks now.. How is it sounding now? I mean has it fully broken in yet? Any final thoughts on the sound?

[blackraven]

Tony, I returned it after 5 days as it was on loan to me from the store.
As far as the sound was concerned, it had the typical Marantz warmth with a prominent midrange. Treble was laid back, a little too much for my tastes. Bass was deep and fairly tight. If your looking for a more analog sound this would be a way to do it. SACD sound was better than STD CD play but it was not dramatically different then my very well mastered XRCD24's.

Overall the 8003 is a very good CDP but for $1k, I think I would go with an external DAC unless you absolutely have to have SACD playback. But a good DAC can sound almost as good if not as good with a well recorded STD Cd from my experience.

[Ajani]

for $1k, I think I would go with an external DAC unless you absolutely have to have SACD playback.

Seconded!

[tony340]

Thats great advice!! Exactly, at $1k you would want to hear something special (at least i would).. I'm not wanting SACD playback. What external DAC'S are we talking about? What would be a good DAC for just under a $1k? I'm using the CD5001, am quite happy with the sound, but would like to hear something more improved..

[Ajani]

Thats great advice!! Exactly, at $1k you would want to hear something special (at least i would).. I'm not wanting SACD playback. What external DAC'S are we talking about? What would be a good DAC for just under a $1k? I'm using the CD5001, am quite happy with the sound, but would like to hear something more improved..

I guess my recommendation shouldn't come as a surprise (if you look at my signature):

Benchmark DAC1 $995.... I think it would work very nicely with your Marantz CD5001 as transport (that was the last CD Player I owned before totally switching to Media Servers)...

Another option (which I haven't tried) is the PS Audio Digital Link iii, also $995...

Feature wise the difference between the 2 DACS are:

PS Audio has a USB input (you'd have to upgrade to the Benchmark DAC1 USB to get one - $1295)...

Benchmark has dual headphone outputs (which I'm making great use of right now).

Benchmark also has volume control for all its outputs... so it can be used as an excellent preamplifier for digital sources...

[tony340]

Thanks.. Also btw, any other worthy brands that would come close to the benchmark? Any that can be had for around 600-700? cheers

[Ajani]

Thanks.. Also btw, any other worthy brands that would come close to the benchmark? Any that can be had for around 600-700? cheers

You can usually find the Benchmark and the PS Audio used on Audiogon for about $700...

In terms of cheaper DACs, the ones I hear good things about (but have never tried) are:

Channel Islands Audio VDA-2 $600
Cambridge Audio DACMagic $400
Musical Fidelity V-DAC $300

I considered all of those options, before deciding on the Benchmark... In the end I chose having the peace of mind of knowing that the Benchmark is legitimately regarded as a High End source... with the others, I can't tell from the reviews just how much of an improvement (if any) they'd give over a Squeezebox Classic or Marantz CD5001....

But if you can try them from a store with a good return policy, then I'd say go ahead....

[audio amateur]

Benchmark also has volume control for all its outputs... so it can be used as an excellent preamplifier for digital sources...
Is that remote-controlled?

[Ajani]

Is that remote-controlled?

I wish it was.... :nonod:

[Mr Peabody]

www.amusicdirect.com is running a sale on the PS Audio DAC at $695.00 and they do have a 30 return.

[Ajani]

It's a demo item, but at $700, with a 30 return policy, it might be the way to go:

http://www.musicdirect.com/product/81787

[tony340]

Any idea whether they ship to my part of the world? I live in Singapore

[Ajani]

Any idea whether they ship to my part of the world? I live in Singapore

They ship worldwide... but only if you don't have a local dealer in your region... If you have a local dealer then they'll cancel your order and send you an e-mail listing your local dealers...

[tony340]

Thanks.. Before that, would you be able to tell me whether the DAC's such as the Benchmark or PS Audio will give a big difference in sound when connected to my 5001? I mean is it worth the investment, cos i have no experience with DAC's..

[Mr Peabody]

I think you would notice a difference. Spending more money is not always going to help but on the other hand the 5001, be it a good player for the money, cost around $300.00 for the entire player, PS Audio's DAC retails at $999.00 for just the D to A converter.

[tony340]

Exactly. I was considering the same factor.. Whether the DACMAGIC or the V-DAC would give me the difference is the question.. We do not have good 30 day return policies here, so i would basically have to gamble $400 to check it out!!

[Ajani]

Thanks.. Before that, would you be able to tell me whether the DAC's such as the Benchmark or PS Audio will give a big difference in sound when connected to my 5001? I mean is it worth the investment, cos i have no experience with DAC's..

What speakers and amp do you have? A good source is always... ummm... good to have... but you might find the upgrade a little disappointing if the rest of your system is not up to par... The Marantz is a very good CD player for the money, so depending on your amp and speakers, your money might be better spent upgrading one of those items before getting a PS Audio or Benchmark DAC...

[Ajani]

Exactly. I was considering the same factor.. Whether the DACMAGIC or the V-DAC would give me the difference is the question.. We do not have good 30 day return policies here, so i would basically have to gamble $400 to check it out!!

Looks like you're in the same boat, I was in... I live in the Caribbean, so there are no 30 day returns available locally & even if I bought from a US store with a good return policy, I'd have to pay shipping on the return item (plus figure out how to get my customs and duties charges refunded from the government - yeah, that's gonna happen)...

So in the end, I opted for the Benchmark, instead of risking $300 - $400 on the Musical Fidelity or Cambridge Audio...

[tony340]

I currently am using Paradigm Reference Studio 20 speakers with Rotel RA-1062 amp..

[Ajani]

I currently am using Paradigm Reference Studio 20 speakers with Rotel RA-1062 amp..

Cool... With that setup, I think a new DAC should give you a noticeable improvement...

Interestingly, your setup sounds similar to the one I used to have:

Marantz CD5001 CD
Rotel RC1070 Pre
Rotel RB1080 Power
Mission V63 Towers

[tony340]

Thanks Ajani.. Well i will definitely look into the Benchmark since you are happy with it, and then the PS Audio as well. I wish someone could give some insight on the MF or the Cambrdge!!

[blackraven]

Tony, dont skimp on the DAC. I'm sure the Cambridge and M are fine but they will not be in the same class as the Benchmark or PS audio. If your looking for the biggest improvement in sound then spend the extra money. The PS Audio Digital Link III has a USB port and is supposed to have a warmer sound and sells here in the U.S. for $1k. The benchmark sells for the same price. Both would be a big improvement in sound. The Cambridge and MF would be an improvement as well.

Another DAC to consider is the Van Alstine insight DAC for $899. Its well worth the money and it blew my Cambridge 840c CDP out of the water. It's a basic DAC with no frills but it has pristine sound with deep bass and leans to the warmer side slightly as all of VA's gear does. I auditioned it in my home and it was excellent. I ended up buying his more expensive Tube hybrid DAC. Give Frank Van Alstine an email and see if he would ship it to you. www.avahifi.com

[Ajani]

Tony, dont skimp on the DAC. I'm sure the Cambridge and M are fine but they will not be in the same class as the Benchmark or PS audio. If your looking for the biggest improvement in sound then spend the extra money. The PS Audio Digital Link III has a USB port and is supposed to have a warmer sound and sells here in the U.S. for $1k. The benchmark sells for the same price. Both would be a big improvement in sound. The Cambridge and MF would be an improvement as well.

Another DAC to consider is the Van Alstine insight DAC for $899. Its well worth the money and it blew my Cambridge 840c CDP out of the water. It's a basic DAC with no frills but it has pristine sound with deep bass and leans to the warmer side slightly as all of VA's gear does. I auditioned it in my home and it was excellent. I ended up buying his more expensive Tube hybrid DAC. Give Frank Van Alstine an email and see if he would ship it to you. www.avahifi.com

Seconded...

The great thing about modern digital sources, is that products that are regarded by fans and reviewers as being legitimately high end, can be purchased new for as cheap as $900 (cheap by Audiophile standards only)... So if you spend the money and get a high quality DAC that you are really happy with, then short of winning the lotto you really don't need to give any thought to upgrading it...

However, if you buy a cheaper DAC, you may feel the need to upgrade it fairly soon... especially if it doesn't give you as much of a sonic improvement as you'd hoped...

If you are not in a rush to make a purchase, then you can wait to see what more magazines (such as Stereophile) think of the Musical Fidelity and Cambridge DACs.... I would expect one or more of these mags to compare those DACs to the more expensive Benchmark or PS Audio DAcs...

[tony340]

Thanks Blackraven!! Yes what you say is spot on.. I mean, the idea is for me to upgrade, and hence skimping on the DAC is thye last thing i should be doing.. I will send them a mail and see what they come up with.. Cheers

[tony340]

Thanks Ajani, yeah i will look into the mentioned DAC'S, cheers

[tony340]

Hey guys. I emailed Frank Van Alstine and he replied me with the shipping costs, the Insight DAC costs USD999 plus USD100 for shipping, hence total USD1099.. Now the fact is, i can also get the Rega Apollo CDP as well for the price.. Sorry i may sound silly, but its just that i want to be very sure about this upgrade, so please let me know.. I wont be buying it right now, but i would like to be certain.. Cheers

[blackraven]

Tony, the VA DAC is better than the Rega Apollo. It sounded better than my Cambridge Audio 840c which now sells for $1700 and is a much better player than the Apollo IMO. Believe me, you will be taken aback when you hear the difference a good DAC can make.

It looks like Frank raised his prices on his equipment.

[Ajani]

Hey guys. I emailed Frank Van Alstine and he replied me with the shipping costs, the Insight DAC costs USD999 plus USD100 for shipping, hence total USD1099.. Now the fact is, i can also get the Rega Apollo CDP as well for the price.. Sorry i may sound silly, but its just that i want to be very sure about this upgrade, so please let me know.. I wont be buying it right now, but i would like to be certain.. Cheers

I'm not sure how Van Alstine compares to the other DACs... but also consider the PS Audio Digital Link iii and the Benchmark DAC1 at the same price... Both the PS Audio and Benchmark have received great reviews.... I know nothing about the Van Alstine though, so I'll defer to Blackraven on that one...

When I chose between the PS Audio and the Benchmark, the deciding factor (since I couldn't audition them before buying) was features.. the PS Audio gave me a USB input (which I'd never use since I already have a Squeezebox)... while the Benchmark gave me a Headphone Amp (which I use daily) and has volume control on all its outputs (so I can use it as a preamp when I eventually add speakers and an amp to my setup)... The Benchmark is pretty much the Swiss Army Knife of High End Audio... To get a DAC, Headphone Amp and Preamp from PS Audio I'd have to pay $3K ($1K for each product)... so even if the quality might be better with PS Audio, I certainly wasn't willing to pay triple for it...

[blackraven]

On thing about the VA is that Frank has excellent customer service and offers to upgrade any of his equipment when new upgrades or models become available (for a price).

You will get a better cosmetic appearance with other brands and more features too, but VA is about value and best audio quality for the money.

I'm sure that any of these DAC's that you choose will be a big improvement in sound.

[tony340]

Thanks thanks thanks... Really appreciate both your advice.. I would have to make a decision on one of the 3, but i like the sound of the Van Alstine, seems the kind of Boutique specialized, to order products which along with your experience with it Blackraven, make it a very worthy option.. So i would consider between the Benchmark and the VA.. Cheers guys

[blackraven]

Tony, check out the Van Alstine audio forum, Audio Circles and read what people have to say about his equipment. Frank has a rather large following. Any one can join and there are a lot of people there that don't own his equipment. The forum is located in the Resources tab on his web site.

Good Luck!

[tony340]

Thanks BR I will do that, cheers..

[Ajani]

Thanks thanks thanks... Really appreciate both your advice.. I would have to make a decision on one of the 3, but i like the sound of the Van Alstine, seems the kind of Boutique specialized, to order products which along with your experience with it Blackraven, make it a very worthy option.. So i would consider between the Benchmark and the VA.. Cheers guys

Either way I suspect you'll be pretty happy with the outcome... The Benchmark is probably the 'safer' choice... but Boutique products like the Van Alstine can have mind blowing value for money... + it's pretty cool to own a relatively rare product....

[tony340]

I made a visit to the local Hi Fi mall this morning. I was accompanying a friend to purchase a mid priced CD player, and guess what: The Marantz agent is having a Christmas sale, the SA8003 is USD490! My friend who was looking for a sub $500 player got it.. Now since I'm trying to upgrade, do you think its worth for me getting one also? I mean, i could get this now and add a DAC later.. The fact is, DAC's would cost more than double this price.. Any opinions? Cheers

[Ajani]

Frankly for $490 (if I wasn't totally into Computer Audio)... I'd pick up the Marantz... that price is excellent!!!

[blackraven]

Thats a good deal on the 8003. I would buy it if money is an issue. Just make sure you use better IC cables then what come with the unit.
Have your friend bring his 8003 over to your house and give it a listen on your system and see if you liked its sound.

[MarkMark]

tony340:

I HAVE to know where you saw the steal on the SA8003. Please email, PM, (or post) that info!

The best price I've seen is $750 and was considering it at that price.


I made a visit to the local Hi Fi mall this morning. I was accompanying a friend to purchase a mid priced CD player, and guess what: The Marantz agent is having a Christmas sale, the SA8003 is USD490! My friend who was looking for a sub $500 player got it.. Now since I'm trying to upgrade, do you think its worth for me getting one also? I mean, i could get this now and add a DAC later.. The fact is, DAC's would cost more than double this price.. Any opinions? Cheers

[emaidel]

I'd suggest a good deal of caution when looking for a "deal" on the Marantz SA-8003 (or many another piece of gear). Most retailers offering very low prices on the 8003 aren't authorized Marantz dealers, and you'd be in for a real nightmare should the unit ever require servicing. Marantz will either flatly refuse to service the unit at all, or will charge you an arm and a leg to perform any needed repairs.

Marantz, and others, are deeply commited to supporting their dealer network, and are quite selective in choosing just who does, and does not, sell their products. Non-authorized dealers obtain the merchandise from other authorized dealers, and then resell the items at discounted prices just to take business away from others. This is a longstanding "dirty trick" used by retailers in the audio industry, and is referred to as "trans-shipping."

Marantz routinely checks for non-authorized sales of its products and does everything in its power to stop them. Ultimately, without such an effort on Marantz' part (or others), prices would erode, initially offering consumers better "deals," but ultimately, at the cost of resepectable retailers dropping the line and leaving the consumer holding the bag when it comes time for service.

Be careful.

[Ajani]

I'd suggest a good deal of caution when looking for a "deal" on the Marantz SA-8003 (or many another piece of gear). Most retailers offering very low prices on the 8003 aren't authorized Marantz dealers, and you'd be in for a real nightmare should the unit ever require servicing. Marantz will either flatly refuse to service the unit at all, or will charge you an arm and a leg to perform any needed repairs.

Marantz, and others, are deeply commited to supporting their dealer network, and are quite selective in choosing just who does, and does not, sell their products. Non-authorized dealers obtain the merchandise from other authorized dealers, and then resell the items at discounted prices just to take business away from others. This is a longstanding "dirty trick" used by retailers in the audio industry, and is referred to as "trans-shipping."

Marantz routinely checks for non-authorized sales of its products and does everything in its power to stop them. Ultimately, without such an effort on Marantz' part (or others), prices would erode, initially offering consumers better "deals," but ultimately, at the cost of resepectable retailers dropping the line and leaving the consumer holding the bag when it comes time for service.

Be careful.

Thanks for the info! I always wondered how non-authorized dealers got their paws on high end products... the sad part is to realize that 'carefully selected' authorized dealers are the ones who willingly supply the shady internet dealers...

[Rich-n-Texas]

See how greed works Ajani? Capitalism at it's finest!

And I agree, that was good info emaidel. :thumbsup:

One problem. I've never understood the big attraction to Marantz. Am I wrong that they always played second fiddle to Pioneer back in the 70's?

[emaidel]

One problem. I've never understood the big attraction to Marantz. Am I wrong that they always played second fiddle to Pioneer back in the 70's?


Yes, you are wrong. Whether justifiable or not, Pioneer was considered at best only so-so by most retailers throughout the 70's, more due to the fact that everyone and his brother sold it, and making money on a piece of Pioneer equipment was all but impossible. Marantz receivers were actually a tad better performers than those from Pioneer, but the rest of the Marantz lineup then was no better than the rest of the stuff from everyone else.

Man, are you every bringing back memories!

[emaidel]

Thanks for the info! I always wondered how non-authorized dealers got their paws on high end products... the sad part is to realize that 'carefully selected' authorized dealers are the ones who willingly supply the shady internet dealers...


Trans-shipping was the bane of many a manufacturer during the heyday of the industry, and apparently, still is, at least for Marantz. Fortunately, very few of the "carefully selected" retailers were eager to sell to their neighboring, non-authorized retailers, but some were pretty blatant about it. Just as often as not, pushing a few items "out the back door" to a less worthy retailer was an easy way to get quick cash when money was tight. Apparently, many of these trans shippers felt that it really wouldn't hurt too much to sell a couple of receivers, or a few pairs of speakers to non-authorized retailers just for a quick buck. Little did they know...

Most of the time, a trans shipper will purchase only one or two items from an authorized dealer for the specific purpose of selling against that product. Sixth Avenue Electronics, back in the late 80's and early 90's was just such a retailer. They would bring in one or two pieces of a Denon item (usually a CD player), and then run an ad in the newspaper for a ridiculously low price on it. When the customer arrived, they were conveniently "sold out" of that item, but had something else that they pushed on the customer as a "better deal."

This was a very dirty business at one time.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Gee, it works just like that with car dealers. How strange. :rolleyes:

I guess then it was the price tag that steered me away from Marantz back then. I wasn't really in an established career path so the much publicised Pioneer gear with their low low prices were the attraction.

What you'll notice about 6th Ave's website is how much they tout their 'Authorized dealer' status. I guess image and reputation is a big thing in retail. Regardless, I still won't complain about the deal I got from them for my Yamaha receiver. I'm just glad it worked out of the box.

[emaidel]

I haven't dealt with 6th Ave. Electronics for well over a decade, so I can't say for sure just what kind of retailer they are today. Still, when perusing their website, I couldn't help but notice how few items had the words "in stock" listed in their description. Most of the time it was "ships in 1-3 business days," or for even longer periods. That would be reason to give me pause.

In the DJ industry, and most likely, in the home audio/home theatre business, many a person chooses to start up an online business, and requests that his manufacturers "drop ship" merchandise for them. "Drop ship" means that the manufacturer, rather than shipping the item to the dealer, who in turn ships the product to the consumer, ships the product direct to the consumer, thereby saving the retailer the expense of either maintaining an inventory, or incurring shipping costs. In theory, the online retailer gets a customer's money, orders the item that day from the manufacturer, and the manufacturer then ships the item, at the manufacturer's expense, directly to the consumer.

The whole idea of such a situation is anathema to many a manufacturer, as the online retailer does little more than put together a webpage and then sit back and make money at everyone else's expense. Most manufacturers refuse to drop ship, since to do so incurs numerous headaches for the manufacturer, specifically, having UPS, or whomever the carrier, make numerous attempts at deliveries since the consumer more often than not, isn't home. Each attempt at another delivery costs the shipper (the manufacturer, in this case) more and more money.

Then, there's the issue of damaged goods.

An authorized online retailer, who maintains an inventory of merchandise, will often replace a damaged item with a new unit, and return the damaged unit to the manufacturer. A shady, non-authorized online dealer will leave the resolution of the damage to the consumer and just walk away. I've read of many instances where the "customer service" at 6th Ave. Electronics was all but non-existent.

If your Yamaha unit worked right out of the box, I'd say you were lucky. There are two ways to tell if the merchandise received from a retailer was legit: one is to examine whether or not the serial number has been removed from either the unit, or the carton, and the other is to see if somewhere on the carton, the original shipping label has either been removed altogether (a common practice), or a new one plastered over the old one. The "old" shipping label is the one for the authorized dealer who bought the item in the first place, which the non-authorized dealer will make every effort to eliminate.

As I mentioned initially regarding Marantz, manufacturers not only refuse to honor warranties on items purchased from non authorized dealers, but some refuse service altogehter. That's a pretty good reason to shop carefully.

[emaidel]

In all fairness to 6th Ave. Electronics, they are indeed authorized Denon and Yamaha retailers. Apparently, much has changed in the time since I originally dealt with them many years back.

[Ajani]

I haven't dealt with 6th Ave. Electronics for well over a decade, so I can't say for sure just what kind of retailer they are today. Still, when perusing their website, I couldn't help but notice how few items had the words "in stock" listed in their description. Most of the time it was "ships in 1-3 business days," or for even longer periods. That would be reason to give me pause.

In the DJ industry, and most likely, in the home audio/home theatre business, many a person chooses to start up an online business, and requests that his manufacturers "drop ship" merchandise for them. "Drop ship" means that the manufacturer, rather than shipping the item to the dealer, who in turn ships the product to the consumer, ships the product direct to the consumer, thereby saving the retailer the expense of either maintaining an inventory, or incurring shipping costs. In theory, the online retailer gets a customer's money, orders the item that day from the manufacturer, and the manufacturer then ships the item, at the manufacturer's expense, directly to the consumer.

The whole idea of such a situation is anathema to many a manufacturer, as the online retailer does little more than put together a webpage and then sit back and make money at everyone else's expense. Most manufacturers refuse to drop ship, since to do so incurs numerous headaches for the manufacturer, specifically, having UPS, or whomever the carrier, make numerous attempts at deliveries since the consumer more often than not, isn't home. Each attempt at another delivery costs the shipper (the manufacturer, in this case) more and more money.

Then, there's the issue of damaged goods.

An authorized online retailer, who maintains an inventory of merchandise, will often replace a damaged item with a new unit, and return the damaged unit to the manufacturer. A shady, non-authorized online dealer will leave the resolution of the damage to the consumer and just walk away. I've read of many instances where the "customer service" at 6th Ave. Electronics was all but non-existent.

If your Yamaha unit worked right out of the box, I'd say you were lucky. There are two ways to tell if the merchandise received from a retailer was legit: one is to examine whether or not the serial number has been removed from either the unit, or the carton, and the other is to see if somewhere on the carton, the original shipping label has either been removed altogether (a common practice), or a new one plastered over the old one. The "old" shipping label is the one for the authorized dealer who bought the item in the first place, which the non-authorized dealer will make every effort to eliminate.

As I mentioned initially regarding Marantz, manufacturers not only refuse to honor warranties on items purchased from non authorized dealers, but some refuse service altogehter. That's a pretty good reason to shop carefully.

To add to your point: some manufacturers (Revel for example) will not honor any warranty from a non-authorized dealer (but will service for a fee)... but they also take it a step further and will not even provide a paid servicing, if the serial number on the product has been in anyway tampered with... So if you bought from some shady Internet dealer and they replaced the serial number, then you are screwed if the product needs repairs...

[tony340]

Sorry fellows, i did not log onto AR for sometime, anyway happy new year to u all!!
The Marantz agent in Singapore was the one who had the 8003 going for the price (SGD750 OR USD490). If ur interested Mark, i can post you their contact details.

[MarkMark]

tony340:

If you have an email address for your Marantz dealer, I would be interested. Thx.


Others praising the Benchmark DAC1:

I borrowed a DAC1 and listened to it in my system. It was fantastic. I compared it to an old NAD 5000 cd player (I believe the NAD was a steophile recommended budget player back in its day). Improved bass performance was the most immediately noticed upgrade but everything was more detailed. I'm now afraid to buy anythng less than the DAC1.

[Mr Peabody]

MarkMark, good move, listening for yourself, now you know and you are the wiser for it.

Unfortunately, now your ears have heard, they will take control, you will be at their mercy.....:)

[IowaCityDiehard]

Greetings. Brand new forum member here. I read this thread and there are some excellent reviews and opinions regarding the SA8003, as well as comparisons to the 8001.

As you can see below, my CD source is the weakest link in my system, and I've had the 8001 on my wish list for a while. Now the 8003/8001 decision, which just got harder after reading all of this!

What I need to do is get an 8003 (and an 8001) for a weekend demo from my local dealer. Many will poke fun at my SACD/DVD combo player, and probably justifiably so, but I have to tell you that my system sounds downright incredible, which is why I haven't upgraded the source player yet. I definitely want to hear one of the better Marantz dedicated SACD players to hear the difference!

A couple of notes:

1. I don't own a single SACD, so CD playback is my main concern at the moment.
2. The USB input of the 8003 isn't a big deal to me.
3. I wonder what an external DAC would do for my DV6400, or would that be worth it?

Thanks!!!

[Mr Peabody]

An upgraded DAC would be fine. You still wouldn't be able to listen to SACD though if that was important to you. At this point I'd probably blow off SACD and just wait for whatever the next music format might be. It's still chugging along though, in it's nitch.

[Ajani]

Greetings. Brand new forum member here. I read this thread and there are some excellent reviews and opinions regarding the SA8003, as well as comparisons to the 8001.

As you can see below, my CD source is the weakest link in my system, and I've had the 8001 on my wish list for a while. Now the 8003/8001 decision, which just got harder after reading all of this!

What I need to do is get an 8003 (and an 8001) for a weekend demo from my local dealer. Many will poke fun at my SACD/DVD combo player, and probably justifiably so, but I have to tell you that my system sounds downright incredible, which is why I haven't upgraded the source player yet. I definitely want to hear one of the better Marantz dedicated SACD players to hear the difference!

A couple of notes:

1. I don't own a single SACD, so CD playback is my main concern at the moment.
2. The USB input of the 8003 isn't a big deal to me.
3. I wonder what an external DAC would do for my DV6400, or would that be worth it?

Thanks!!!

In the price range of the 8003 you have a lot of options:

The 8003 or 8001 are ideal if you want to play just CDs, SACDS or both... Note: I'm not sold on the USB input on the 8003, since it is designed to access music stored directly on a flash/hard-drive, rather than being controlled by a computer... though in theory that's a good thing, it comes down to how good the interface on 8003 is for accessing that music conveniently...

If you are thinking of eventually using a music server (whether computer based or standalone) or have a couple of digital sources you want to improve, then a DAC such as the PS Audio Digital Link iii or the Benchmark DAC 1 would be a great choice... Between those 2, the PS Audio has USB while the Benchmark has a built in headphone amp and variable audio out... (if you are willing to spend another $300, then you can get USB on the Benchmark)...

All of those options would give you good sound, so it really just comes down to what features you are most interested in.....

[IowaCityDiehard]

Mr. P and Ajani,

Thank you very much for your excellent advice.

I'm thinking that an outboard DAC might be what I enjoy the most, for the following reasons:

1. I don't really have any interest in SACD at this time... I have too many great CDs to listen to!

2. I don't have any intention of ever using a music server (even though I'm an old IT guy), but being able to input my DVD audio into the DAC would be nice. With kids and so many other interests, a big home theater system isn't something that interests me or my wife, but we do enjoy the much better DVD audio through my below system when watching movies. Getting even better DVD audio using the DAC would be icing.

3. My current Marantz is an excellent player and would be a fine transport. With an outboard DAC, I'd lose the SACD capability, but like I said, no interest in SACD anyway.

4. USB input doesn't interest me for my reasons in #2. My Audible Illusions Pre has a nice headphone section, but I don't use it much. I'm drawn more to the Benchmark DAC1, probably due to the plethora of good reviews I've read. I just wish they made a simpler one without the headphone amp section... now that would be cool.

I'm assuming the best way to buy a DAC1 is directly from Benchmark? I would imagine good used ones are hard to find?

My current system was just completed last year after I picked up the AI preamp, and I've been enjoying music again more than I have for years. I guess I just want to make that one last tweak (for now) to get the very best out of my system. I'm also curious of how much better it can sound. The tube preamp & heavily modified Adcom have been a glorious matchup, and through my little Paradigms, the soundstage and accuracy is stunning.

OK, my apologies, as this has gotten LONG, but my last question is... given how good mys system seems to sound now, what would your expereince tell you that I MIGHT experience in regards to better sound with a current DAC (or a newer player like a Marantz SA8003)?

THANKS AGAIN!

[Ajani]

Mr. P and Ajani,

Thank you very much for your excellent advice.

I'm thinking that an outboard DAC might be what I enjoy the most, for the following reasons:

1. I don't really have any interest in SACD at this time... I have too many great CDs to listen to!

2. I don't have any intention of ever using a music server (even though I'm an old IT guy), but being able to input my DVD audio into the DAC would be nice. With kids and so many other interests, a big home theater system isn't something that interests me or my wife, but we do enjoy the much better DVD audio through my below system when watching movies. Getting even better DVD audio using the DAC would be icing.

3. My current Marantz is an excellent player and would be a fine transport. With an outboard DAC, I'd lose the SACD capability, but like I said, no interest in SACD anyway.

4. USB input doesn't interest me for my reasons in #2. My Audible Illusions Pre has a nice headphone section, but I don't use it much. I'm drawn more to the Benchmark DAC1, probably due to the plethora of good reviews I've read. I just wish they made a simpler one without the headphone amp section... now that would be cool.

I'm assuming the best way to buy a DAC1 is directly from Benchmark? I would imagine good used ones are hard to find?

My current system was just completed last year after I picked up the AI preamp, and I've been enjoying music again more than I have for years. I guess I just want to make that one last tweak (for now) to get the very best out of my system. I'm also curious of how much better it can sound. The tube preamp & heavily modified Adcom have been a glorious matchup, and through my little Paradigms, the soundstage and accuracy is stunning.

OK, my apologies, as this has gotten LONG, but my last question is... given how good mys system seems to sound now, what would your expereince tell you that I MIGHT experience in regards to better sound with a current DAC (or a newer player like a Marantz SA8003)?

THANKS AGAIN!

If you really want to save a few bucks you can try audiogon.com for the Benchmark (they usually go for around $700 used - but I have no idea about whether they are reliable and in good condition)... My advice would be to buy direct from Benchmark (that's how I purchased mine)...

The improvements you should expect to hear would be detail 1st and then more subtle improvements in just about everything else... (anyway that's my guess based on my experience with the DAC1... YMMV)

[IowaCityDiehard]

Thanks again Ajani for the excellent advice. After further research and reading reviews, for my taste in sound, I think I'm going to go with a Cullen-modded PS Audio DL III DAC. More $$ for sure, but I think it is a good fit for my system.

My wife says I need to sell a few toys first to fund it, so it will be a bit, but I'll be sure to post a review of my expereince with this DAC.

Cheers!

[mijs]

Your post really caught my eye. I own an SA-8001 and my last player was a DV-6400, so I can offer some meaningful comparisons. First of all, I have a lot of respect for that DV-6400! It is so easy on the ears (even at loud volume levels) and does so many things well. It took me back to listening to music instead of analyzing music.

A few years later when the SA-8001 came out, I decided to step up in the Marantz line.

As much as I liked the DV-6400, the SA-8001 makes it sound 2-dimensional in comparison. The SA-8001 is a very well-balanced sounding CDP with better soundstage, detail, and definition. Bass on the SA-8001 is more plentiful, deeper and tighter. The highs are there but not harsh at all. I don't know if this makes sense, but in terms of precision, it has a "professional" sound compared to every other CDP I've owned. It can darn near produce concert-level realism.

Regarding the SA-8001, SA-15S1, and Benchmark DAC, you NEED to read the Stereophile review ( http://www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/1007mar/index2.html ) that compared those three sources. Part of the review says "I don't believe the (sonic) differences were real", and over time the reviewer really had no preference of one over the others.

I haven't heard the SA-8003 (and have no intention of doing so) because I am so satisfied with the SA-8001. The 8001 is also a proven quantity, the 8003 has yet to reach that status.

You can find used 8001's around $500 - $600. IMHO, that's the ticket.

BTW - I use AQ King Cobras with the 8001 and they really open it up compared to the AQ Diamondback and Corals that I've used.

Hope it helps!

mijs


Equipment List:
Cayin A-50T
Marantz SA-8001
Several speakers, incl TQWT
AQ King Cobra ICs

[Ajani]

Your post really caught my eye. I own an SA-8001 and my last player was a DV-6400, so I think I can offer some meaningful comparisons. First of all, I have a lot of respect for that DV-6400! It is so easy on the ears (even at loud volume levels) and does so many things well. It took me back to listening to music instead of analyzing music.

A few years later when the SA-8001 came out, I decided to step up in the Marantz line.

As much as I liked the DV-6400, the SA-8001 makes it sound 2-dimensional in comparison. The SA-8001 is a very well-balanced sounding CDP with better soundstage, detail, and definition. Bass on the SA-8001 is more plentiful, deeper and tighter. The highs are there but not harsh at all. I don't know if this makes sense, but in terms of precision, it has a "professional" sound compared to every other CDP I've owned. It can darn near produce concert-level realism.

Regarding the SA-8001, SA-15S1, and Benchmark DAC, you NEED to read the Stereophile review ( http://www.stereophile.com/hirezplayers/1007mar/index2.html ) that compared those three sources. Part of the review says "I don't believe the (sonic) differences were real", and over time the reviewer really had no preference of one over the others.

I haven't heard the SA-8003 (and have no intention of doing so) because I am so satisfied with the SA-8001. The 8001 is also a proven quantity, the 8003 has yet to reach that status.

You can find used 8001's around $500 - $600. IMHO, that's the ticket.

BTW - I use AQ King Cobras with the 8001 and they really open it up compared to the AQ Diamondback and Corals that I've used.


Hope it helps!

Yep... as I've said a few times in these forums:

If I wasn't into music servers (computer audio), then the Marantz SA8001 would definitely have been my CD/SACD player.... Especially considering how much cheaper it is than buying the Benchmark DAC1 + a decent transport + a digital interconnect, for CD playback....

[MinuteMan]

Hi, I'm a newby to this forum, but I coulnd't help noticing you guys were sharing SA8003 experiences. Here's mine:

For me the SA8003 was merely a redbook transport for my Musical Fidelity X-DAC and a SACD platform. And to be honest I haven't been able to properly enjoy this player since I bought it. The everpresent noise from the mechanism is so annoying it ruins the experience at low volumes completely. You can forget about classical music. I returned the device and got a new one which was even slightly worse. Marantz tested it and claims it functions within the specified parameters and the store wont even take the device back (consumer laws in my country are due for an upgrade). The player sits 14 ft. from the listening position by the way. Sadly the worst buy I ever made.:mad5:

Grtz.

[Mr Peabody]

What country are you in? What's the rest of your system?

First poster that I know of mentioning the noise. I wonder if 220 vs. 110v makes any difference. Interesting though, the noise of the transport loading a disc was a negative I noted in my 7003 BD player. Normal play I can't hear it over the movie but from about 11 to 12 feet away with the cabinet door closed I can hear it grinding away when the disc is loading.

[blackraven]

I auditioned the 8003 for a week in my home and did not notice any noise, but I have read user reviews where people have complained about it.

[Ajani]

I've seen this discussion in a few different forums:

clearly defective SA8003 units have very noisy transports (and there are enough defective units for this complaint to be around) but for the most part, the SA8003 is not noisy.... So my advice for anyone thinking of purchasing one is to ensure you get a good return policy just in case you get stuck with a defective unit....

[Mr Peabody]

If it's not the norm and he can't return it, I'd definitely send it back to Marantz under warranty to get it fixed.

[MinuteMan]

I had returned the unit to Marantz. They did find a defect as a matter of fact, something with the mechanism plateau. They fixed this, but the noise remained. It's like the loading noise just remains throughout the playback of the disc. It sounds like a tapecassette being rewound. It's with any disc for that matter, CDDA, SACD, CDR.
And I didn't even mention Marantz BS response about poorly produced discs which frankly is an insult to my intelligence. They even suggested I place my amp on top of my player to reduce noise. Can you believe that.
I requested the testreport from Marantz for my unit, still waiting for that.

Thanks for the input guys and I'm Dutch by the way.

[Mr Peabody]

I do have to say Marantz customer support leaves a lot to be desired. I downloaded a firmware update to my BD7003, hoping it was done right, but I didn't get that far. They give a sequence of buttons to push that will draw the tray in with the disc and begin the update. When I push the buttons the player just says "no disc". I'm pushing them as fast as I can. They did answer my email and they did answer the phone but the best answer I could get is to take the player into a service center. Who wants to be without their player for who knows how long just for an update. At least Samsung sent me the disc and the player just updated like playing a normal disc. This will definitely discourage any future Marantz purchases. If I can't get it straightened out the unit may be going back which I hate to do because I like it a lot but if it can't be updated it will soon be a larger problem.

[mijs]

MinuteMan,

Sorry to hear about the 8003's noise and Marantz' poor support. I would have been very angry if my 8001 did that and they wouldn't admit there was a problem. These are not inexpensive players.
Good luck!

[elfingrot]

To follow up with the comments about problems playing SACDs, I had the following experience.

For more than a year, my Marantz SA8001 played both regular CDs and hybrids just fine. Then I purchased my first SACD-only recordings (Columbia Bruno Walter Beethoven 6th and Beethoven 5th/Schubert "Unfinished"). One played fine, the other played a little and then skipped around. By opening and closing the drawer, I might get a minute or two OK, but that disc would always mess up sooner or later. After a few tries and the insertion of other discs, the machine began to read "no disc" on everything I put in it.

Called Marantz, and even though I had lost the receipt in a move, they told me they would handle it under warranty and had me send it to one of their authorized places for repair. Got the machine back two weeks later, and it played CDs and SACD-only discs, but not hybrids! And I tried 20. All hybrids showed "no disc."

Machine out and back again, and now it plays everything I put in it except two brand-new hybrids (Bach Cantatas vol. 43 BIS; Beethoven Symphonies 1 and 5 Jarvi RCA). The Marantz will not even play these as regular CDs, though they play fine in my regular CD player.

Strange. I know the first repair involved replacing the optical pickup, and the second involved updating firmware. Both Marantz and the repair place have been very nice about taking care of me, but I have a feeling that sending the unit back again won't guarantee anything, and it's only those two SACDs anyway.

I certainly hope SACD succeeds. I owned an audio store for 10 years (in the 1970s and 1980s), and I remember well when customers readily welcomed any improvement in sound. I remember having a waiting list a mile long for the first Sony CD players when they came out.

Now SACD had made a clear leap over CD (even though there are some very fine CDs), but it seems that only a few of us really care about the difference.

[bobsticks]

I'm not a huge fan of Jarvi but it's a pleasure to have another sound maven on the board.

Welcome to the forum, elf, and I'm glad you were able to find at least some degree of satisfaction and customer support. Don't be a stranger.

[elfingrot]

Here's a follow-up. Just for the heck of it, even though none of my problem SACDs were ever touched and all looked clean, I put them in my Nitty Gritty machine just in case. I was amazed to find that they all then played fine with exception of the Suzuki Bach Cantatas vol. 43, of which I have two copies. Both still register "No Disc," but they play fine in CD mode. (Volumes 28-42 and 44 play fine. What's wrong with 43?)

A couple of the others had to be inserted a second time to register, but they eventually played.

So it's apparently not the discs themselves, just a finicky Marantz 8001 that wants spotless discs.

[mezzanine]

Black Raven

Cambridge Audio is carried here in the Twin Cities. Stereoland in Eden Prairie carries the line. I have a 840c and like it a lot. Listened to the Marantz 8003 today. Was very nice and easy on the ear. But seemed a little shut in on top and the soundstage just a little less then the 840c. Good player for the price for sure. Slightly better than the $800 NAD. The Rega Apollo seemed even better then the Marantz but I couldn't live with it. It's to bright on top midrange with vocals.
The Cambridge is the best of the above.

[blackraven]

Black Raven

Cambridge Audio is carried here in the Twin Cities. Stereoland in Eden Prairie carries the line. I have a 840c and like it a lot. Listened to the Marantz 8003 today. Was very nice and easy on the ear. But seemed a little shut in on top and the soundstage just a little less then the 840c. Good player for the price for sure. Slightly better than the $800 NAD. The Rega Apollo seemed even better then the Marantz but I couldn't live with it. It's to bright on top midrange with vocals.
The Cambridge is the best of the above.

I knew that Stereoland started to carry CA. I think I was the one to turn them on to CA. About 2-3 years ago I went over to their now closed Minneapolis store to listen to some paradigm and nht speakers and the owner started talking to me about my main system. I told him that I had an 840c and he started pimping me about it. I told him that he ought to carry the CA line since no one else carries it around here and that it's a lot of bang for the buck. He told me that he was looking for another line to carry and that he would consider CA.

Your dead on about your assessment about the Marantz 8003. Smaller sound stage, not as detailed with rolled off top end. Bass is not as tight, its slower paced. But over all its smooth sounding and has a pleasant sound. It does better with SACD than CD. It would be a great player for a bright sounding system.

I'm surprised you found the R.Apollo bright. I listened to it at Audio Perfection in MPLS and found it a very neutral and great sounding player. I heard Apollo Special Edition on a Theta amp and preamp with a pair of Maggie 1.6's. I convinced that some of the differences we hear are system matching. How do you compare different pieces of equipment in different stores with different speakers, amps, CDP's etc's.