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Woochifer
10-29-2008, 12:20 PM
Ouch!

My brother-in-law just last Christmas got the family a 46" Samsung LCD TV, and then surprised his four girls by also getting them a Nintendo Wii (and last Christmas, it was a downright heroic act trying to track down a Wii in the first place). All's well in the household, and I even enjoyed a few Wii games at their house when we visited them over the summer.

Well, fast forward to this week, and things have gone in divergent directions. I finally made the HDTV upgrade, but my brother-in-law now has a gigantic peace symbol-shaped crack in the middle of his TV. Yep, his LCD got tattooed by a flying Wiimote. :mad2:

http://regmedia.co.uk/2006/12/07/wii_remote_1.jpg

So far, none of the girls have admitted to doing the damage, and the family's not done paying for the TV! In the meantime, the family crowds around the old TV in the bedroom or they do their HD viewing with a giant spider-web in the middle of the screen.

It got me to thinking that LCD TVs don't have any kind of protection for the screen, and those layers are quite fragile. Around the office, we've had a couple of LCD panels become unviewable after seemingly minor damage. And from having played Wii games, a Wiimote carries a lot more force.

Apparently, my brother-in-law's not alone. There's a whole website (http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/) that documents the damage that Wiimotes have done to people's houses, and TV screens in particular.

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/images/p125/post.jpg

One pattern I've noticed is that most of the damage reports come from RPTV and LCD TV owners. I did not see anything on a plasma or CRT TV, presumably because those TVs' glass screens are somewhat more impact resistant. (In fact, Panasonic claims that their plasmas are "Wiimote-proof")

While I'd guess that a Wiimote-damaged RPTV screen ain't cheap to fix, the LCD TV is truly hosed because that repair job entails replacing the entire panel.

With the millions of Wiis out there, and reports of TVs damaged by flying Wiimotes very commonplace, I would've thought that someone would come up with an approach that makes these fragile TV screens a little bit more impact resistant. Then again, TV replacement can be quite lucrative for the industry as well!

Some examples of Wiimote damaged TVs are shown below ... Ouch!

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/images/p223/post.jpg

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/images/p144/post.jpg

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/images/p127/post.jpg

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/images/p52/post.jpg

http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/images/p51/post.jpg

L.J.
10-29-2008, 12:33 PM
PS3 makes use of motion sensing in quite a few games. Some games, like bowling, actually has you doing the entire bowling motion with the controller acting as the ball. My kids are not allowed to play that game...Period. And this is why. Daddy rather hear some complaining about not being able to play the game vs a huge whole in my 60" :nonod:

Umm...I thought Nin issued a new strap or something like that a long time ago?

Woochifer
10-29-2008, 12:44 PM
PS3 makes use of motion sensing in quite a few games. Some games, like bowling, actually has you doing the entire bowling motion with the controller acting as the ball. My kids are not allowed to play that game...Period. And this is why. Daddy rather hear some complaining about not being able to play the game vs a huge whole in my 60" :nonod:

Umm...I thought Nin issued a new strap or something like that a long time ago?

Smart dad! :thumbsup: I'll have to take my cues from 'ya when my little girl decides she wants to be a gamer...

I think Nintendo did redesign the strap, and it actually saved my (or rather my brother in law's) bacon a couple of times when the controller flew out of my hand while playing Wii Tennis. Evidently, one of my nieces decided to drive without her seat belt on.

filecat13
10-29-2008, 08:27 PM
The cure is a projector-based system. It's both cheaper and more durable than a flat panel.

Since the Wii maxes out at 480p, you can get a modestly priced projector, a ceiling mount, and an inexpensive screen. If you're really cheap, paint a screen on the wall.

Mount the PJ over your heads, mount the Wii sensor under the screen, and wail away. :aureola:

pixelthis
10-29-2008, 11:05 PM
A LCD screen sustains this kind of damage and still works
And you think a plasma would fare better?
Do you know what would happen if the glass tube of a plasma got
hit like that?
Glass everywhere and escaped gas, one of his kids might have even gotten hurt.
Hes damn lucky he didn't have a friggin plasma!
If you "havent seen" any photos of damaged plasmas its because you havent looked very hard.
One of my indian ancestors would have called you "mr talks out of both sides of mouth".:1:

pixelthis
10-29-2008, 11:33 PM
Finally, think "wii" and LCD doesnt mix?
Plasma and wii is a real disaster!

Heres a real imformative article about the burn in "myth" that will bite you in the butt if you don't pay attention.
I have more if you want them, teh web is full of these types of stories.:1:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080716202050AAXbv2E

kexodusc
10-30-2008, 04:14 AM
The cure is a projector-based system. It's both cheaper and more durable than a flat panel.

Since the Wii maxes out at 480p, you can get a modestly priced projector, a ceiling mount, and an inexpensive screen. If you're really cheap, paint a screen on the wall.

Mount the PJ over your heads, mount the Wii sensor under the screen, and wail away. :aureola:
Yeaaahhh Boyyyyyyyy! (in my best Flava Flav impression)...
I built my 102" screen out of 2 x 4 and bullet proof laminate! Ain't no wiimote go'a crack mah screen....

But I suspect a lot of people don't have a rec room, or big enough living room to accomodate a projector. Most of my friends/family live in condos in larger cities and a projector just wouldn't work in a married man's living room.

This is a funny thread - until it happens to you.

Rich-n-Texas
10-30-2008, 04:51 AM
The cure is a projector-based system. It's both cheaper and more durable than a flat panel.

Since the Wii maxes out at 480p, you can get a modestly priced projector, a ceiling mount, and an inexpensive screen. If you're really cheap, paint a screen on the wall.

Mount the PJ over your heads, mount the Wii sensor under the screen, and wail away. :aureola:
480p? That's it? Not hard to understand why damage occurs when playing with a Wii (that didn't sound right), especially when you have to stand so close to it to see a picture. Count that as another reason why I'm glad I purchased a PS3 with glorious 1080p resolution! :yesnod:

johnny p
10-30-2008, 08:01 AM
My wife saw an ad for the Wii "fit" with some yoga program or something, in one of her magazines..... now she wants a wii...... Our son is turned 1 today, so his time for video games is still quite a ways down the road at this point. I guess our television would be safe ...... but my wife is pretty clumsy.... so no tennis for her!

topspeed
10-30-2008, 08:22 AM
My wife saw an ad for the Wii "fit" with some yoga program or something, in one of her magazines..... now she wants a wii My wife saw that too. She waited in line at 6:00am at Target to get one and has used it 3 times. That was 6 months ago. I should put it by the eliptical machine she had to have 2 Christmas' ago :rolleyes:

The key is an anti-glare screen. I know Mits used them on their DLP's and LG had some as well. The screens are removeable, so that must mean they are replaceable, right? Think of it as a rudimentary force field. :lol:

My parents recently bought a Wii and it came with grippy rubber sleeves for the wiimotes. There are also have a number of aftermarket grips/sleeves, which is what we bought the same day we got our Wii last year. With two young boys, there was no way I was taking any chances. Combined with the strap, you'd have to really be flailing away to launch the wiimote.

BTW, welcome to the new millenium, Wooch. What did you finally buy?

Woochifer
10-30-2008, 08:28 AM
A LCD screen sustains this kind of damage and still works
And you think a plasma would fare better?
Do you know what would happen if the glass tube of a plasma got
hit like that?
Glass everywhere and escaped gas, one of his kids might have even gotten hurt.
Hes damn lucky he didn't have a friggin plasma!
If you "havent seen" any photos of damaged plasmas its because you havent looked very hard.
One of my indian ancestors would have called you "mr talks out of both sides of mouth".:1:

"still works" :lol: Yuh, if you consider pixelated streaks and blank blocks "still working"!

As usual, you ignored the information in my post just to break out the tired old debunked lines about "escaped gas." You believe all this crap, yet you continue to claim that loss of motion resolution on LCD TVs is a myth, even when presented with benchmark tests that confirm their poor performance?! :out:

Panasonic's plasmas can withstand the equivalent of 4 joules, which is more than the typical impact from a flying Wiimote. Oh, and they've also been doing that demo next to a LCD screen subjected to just 1 joule. Both sets are "still working" but the plasma still maintains a viewable picture, unlike the LCD which has visible black spots cropping up just from a relatively minor impact.

http://www.v3.cnet.com.au/story_media/339285990/wii_proof_panasonic_plasma_1.jpg

http://www.cnet.com.au/games/wii/0,239036428,339285990,00.htm

Woochifer
10-30-2008, 08:30 AM
Finally, think "wii" and LCD doesnt mix?
Plasma and wii is a real disaster!

:out:

Woochifer
10-30-2008, 08:53 AM
My wife saw that too. She waited in line at 6:00am at Target to get one and has used it 3 times. That was 6 months ago. I should put it by the eliptical machine she had to have 2 Christmas' ago :rolleyes:

The key is an anti-glare screen. I know Mits used them on their DLP's and LG had some as well. The screens are removeable, so that must mean they are replaceable, right? Think of it as a rudimentary force field. :lol:

My parents recently bought a Wii and it came with grippy rubber sleeves for the wiimotes. There are also have a number of aftermarket grips/sleeves, which is what we bought the same day we got our Wii last year. With two young boys, there was no way I was taking any chances. Combined with the strap, you'd have to really be flailing away to launch the wiimote.

BTW, welcome to the new millenium, Wooch. What did you finally buy?

Hey Speedy, good to see you dropping in.

Yeah, I finally pulled the trigger on a Panny 50" 1080p plasma. (Got a standalone thread (http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28455)going) Ever since the Pioneer Elites slipped out of my budget range, I've been on a price watch on the Pannys. Once Costco posted the $300 markoff on their October circular, that was the time to buy.

My brother-in-law's Wii has the new straps and they kept ME from launching the controller into his TV when I was playing Wii Tennis. The Wii in their house is in constant use, and they had no mishaps for close to 10 months. But, it looks like one of his girls played without buckling up first.

It doesn't take much to damage a RPTV or LCD screen. But with the RPTV, you're right, the screen is replaceable, whereas with the LCD, you have to either live with the streaks and blank spots or replace the whole panel. I'm sure that someone can launch a Wiimote hard enough to break a plasma/CRT screen, but that takes a lot more force than what's required to render a LCD screen unwatchable.

Woochifer
10-30-2008, 08:57 AM
Yeaaahhh Boyyyyyyyy! (in my best Flava Flav impression)...
I built my 102" screen out of 2 x 4 and bullet proof laminate! Ain't no wiimote go'a crack mah screen....

But I suspect a lot of people don't have a rec room, or big enough living room to accomodate a projector. Most of my friends/family live in condos in larger cities and a projector just wouldn't work in a married man's living room.

This is a funny thread - until it happens to you.

Yeah, I can tell you that my brother-in-law was not laughing when he flicked on his TV and was greeted by a giant spider-web pattern in the middle of the screen!

GMichael
10-30-2008, 10:16 AM
Yeaaahhh Boyyyyyyyy! (in my best Flava Flav impression)...
I built my 102" screen out of 2 x 4 and bullet proof laminate! Ain't no wiimote go'a crack mah screen....

But I suspect a lot of people don't have a rec room, or big enough living room to accomodate a projector. Most of my friends/family live in condos in larger cities and a projector just wouldn't work in a married man's living room.

This is a funny thread - until it happens to you.

Ditto. You'd have to throw your arm out before you could damage my screens.

Rich-n-Texas
10-30-2008, 11:11 AM
There needs to be a "Wii rider" on homeowner's insurance policies to cover these types of mishaps if the players don't learn after the first one. :yesnod:

Woochifer
10-30-2008, 03:09 PM
There needs to be a "Wii rider" on homeowner's insurance policies to cover these types of mishaps if the players don't learn after the first one. :yesnod:

I'm not even sure that homeowner's insurance covers the first one. :skep:

L.J.
10-30-2008, 03:42 PM
Hmm....Maybe that wii strap can double as a belt :nono:

That'll stop the controllers from flying all through the house :hand:


So far, none of the girls have admitted to doing the damage

That's priceless. Dad, what hole are you talking about? I don't see anything.

Woochifer
10-30-2008, 04:06 PM
Hmm....Maybe that wii strap can double as a belt :nono:

That'll stop the controllers from flying all through the house :hand:


That's priceless. Dad, what hole are you talking about? I don't see anything.

:lol:

Well, they're admitting that there's a hole, just not where it came from! My brother-in-law apparently lined the four girls up and asked who did it -- nobody said anything, but one of them kept looking down - ouch! Regardless of who did it, one of them's now got three sisters in position to blackmail her for the next decade or so! :eek:

Rich-n-Texas
10-30-2008, 04:12 PM
I'm not even sure that homeowner's insurance covers the first one. :skep:
There isn't as far as I know, and I'm not recalling at the moment my reasoning behind that. Give me a day, or two, or a week or so and maybe it'll come to me.:frown2:

L.J.
10-30-2008, 04:37 PM
:lol:

Well, they're admitting that there's a hole, just not where it came from! My brother-in-law apparently lined the four girls up and asked who did it -- nobody said anything, but one of them kept looking down - ouch! Regardless of who did it, one of them's now got three sisters in position to blackmail her for the next decade or so! :eek:

FOUR girls......ouch. That's got trouble written all over it :rolleyes5:

filecat13
10-30-2008, 05:30 PM
FOUR girls......ouch. That's got trouble written all over it :rolleyes5:

Heh, yeah! In a few years a cracked screen will seem like the good old days. :ihih:

Worf101
10-31-2008, 04:02 AM
I really, really, REALLY HATE this thread. If I came home and found my 52" Sammy broken from some idiotic turd tossing incident... I figure it's "Murder She Wrote" and I ain't kiddin. I really dislike the way this thread it heading. Urrgh.

Da Worfster

Rich-n-Texas
10-31-2008, 04:52 AM
I really, really, REALLY HATE this thread. If I came home and found my 52" Sammy broken from some idiotic turd tossing incident... I figure it's "Murder She Wrote" and I ain't kiddin. I really dislike the way this thread it heading. Urrgh.

Da Worfster
:yikes:
OH SH!T!!! Back away everybody. It could get ugly here.

(Color ME gone)

Worf101
10-31-2008, 06:11 AM
:yikes:
OH SH!T!!! Back away everybody. It could get ugly here.

(Color ME gone)
I'm gonna have a talk with that boy when I get home... A good... Long Talk.....

Da Worfter

Woochifer
10-31-2008, 01:38 PM
I really, really, REALLY HATE this thread. If I came home and found my 52" Sammy broken from some idiotic turd tossing incident... I figure it's "Murder She Wrote" and I ain't kiddin. I really dislike the way this thread it heading. Urrgh.

Da Worfster

Just when we thought you were getting a bit sentimental on us with your recent posts, the old Worfster roars back from his hibernation. Ain't no messin' around when it comes to the new gear, eh? :cool:

I would've thought of this story as an amusing bit of train wreck voyeurism, but I don't have too many degrees of separation with my brother-in-law and nieces! He wasn't too happy about it, but the suspected perp is only 5 years old, so there's only so much you can do with her. Sad part is that he's not yet done paying that TV off, so they're just living with that big spider hole in the middle in the meantime.


FOUR girls......ouch. That's got trouble written all over it

And four of their cousins (all boys) live in the same neighborhood. You can only imagine the chaotic tsunami that forms when they all get together for playtime in the afternoons! :crazy:


Heh, yeah! In a few years a cracked screen will seem like the good old days.

The oldest one just turned 10 ... it's the beginning of the end ... :17:

emesbee
11-02-2008, 09:08 PM
I think I must be missing something here. When I started reading this thread I thought it was talking about a burn-in problem caused by a games console on an LCD screen (but I thought LCD didn't suffer from burn-in).

It seems, though, that what is being talked about is mechanical damage to the screen caused by the remote control. Do you mean to say that somebody actually threw it at the screen? Is that normal behaviour for people who use games consoles, or just 'wee' owners?

Like I say, I must be missing something.

pixelthis
11-03-2008, 12:46 AM
I think I must be missing something here. When I started reading this thread I thought it was talking about a burn-in problem caused by a games console on an LCD screen (but I thought LCD didn't suffer from burn-in).

It seems, though, that what is being talked about is mechanical damage to the screen caused by the remote control. Do you mean to say that somebody actually threw it at the screen? Is that normal behaviour for people who use games consoles, or just 'wee' owners?

Like I say, I must be missing something.


Dont mention "burn in".
Like a lot of plasma fanboys on this site they dont wanna hear about
it, their total denial of reality is in full gear.
The capacity of humans to not face up to reality never ceases to amaze me. You have to run a new plasma set at half settings for the first 200 HOURS, and put up with jiggle from"anti burn in" circuits
forever after.
But thats not what they are talking about, they are talking about the Wii
GAME, which if you dont have a firm enough grasp of the remote will
send it flying.
OF course if you damage a LCD screen it will still work until you fix it,
wheareas a Plasma will pretty much be toast.
Not that you have to worry about "Wii" damage to a plasma, burn in is such an issue that any use of ANY video game, with its static images,
with a plasma would be insane.
Although buying a plasma is itself an act of insanity....:1:

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 06:22 AM
I think I must be missing something here. When I started reading this thread I thought it was talking about a burn-in problem caused by a games console on an LCD screen (but I thought LCD didn't suffer from burn-in).

It seems, though, that what is being talked about is mechanical damage to the screen caused by the remote control. Do you mean to say that somebody actually threw it at the screen? Is that normal behaviour for people who use games consoles, or just 'wee' owners?

Like I say, I must be missing something.
I don't know whether or not you're kidding, but yeah, Wii gamers tend to be the type that have anger management issues. :lol:

GMichael
11-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Dont mention "burn in".
Like a lot of plasma fanboys on this site they dont wanna hear about
it, their total denial of reality is in full gear.
The capacity of humans to not face up to reality never ceases to amaze me. You have to run a new plasma set at half settings for the first 200 HOURS, and put up with jiggle from"anti burn in" circuits
forever after.
But thats not what they are talking about, they are talking about the Wii
GAME, which if you dont have a firm enough grasp of the remote will
send it flying.
OF course if you damage a LCD screen it will still work until you fix it,
wheareas a Plasma will pretty much be toast.
Not that you have to worry about "Wii" damage to a plasma, burn in is such an issue that any use of ANY video game, with its static images,
with a plasma would be insane.
Although buying a plasma is itself an act of insanity....:1:

How ironic!

Woochifer
11-03-2008, 10:50 AM
I think I must be missing something here. When I started reading this thread I thought it was talking about a burn-in problem caused by a games console on an LCD screen (but I thought LCD didn't suffer from burn-in).

LCDs don't, and burn-in's not much of an issue with more recent plasma TVs either.


It seems, though, that what is being talked about is mechanical damage to the screen caused by the remote control. Do you mean to say that somebody actually threw it at the screen? Is that normal behaviour for people who use games consoles, or just 'wee' owners?

Like I say, I must be missing something.

The Wii uses a unique motion sensing controller. When playing the tennis or bowling games for example, you use the controller to simulate swinging a tennis racket or tossing a bowling ball. As you could imagine, the controllers will go flying if you don't hold onto them tightly enough or use the safety strap.

As I've seen over the years (and as demonstrated in Panasonic's live demonstrations), LCD TVs are quite vulnerable to permanent damage from low force impacts. A flying Wiimote can conceivably damage a plasma screen as well, but it takes a lot more force to break a plasma panel (especially one of the newer screens that use an impact resistant anti-glare coating) than it does to render a LCD screen unwatchable.

Woochifer
11-03-2008, 10:50 AM
How ironic!

Hall of Fame response ... greenie for you! :cool:

Woochifer
11-03-2008, 11:59 AM
Dont mention "burn in".
Like a lot of plasma fanboys on this site they dont wanna hear about
it, their total denial of reality is in full gear.

A decade late as usual. :lol:


The capacity of humans to not face up to reality never ceases to amaze me.

See GM's response


You have to run a new plasma set at half settings for the first 200 HOURS, and put up with jiggle from"anti burn in" circuits
forever after.

Which plasma manufacturer or professional installer recommends this procedure nowadays? :skep:

Even the paranoid professional installers over at AVS Forum say that all you need to do for the first 100 hours is run the TV in full screen mode, and that break-in procedure is done primarily to ensure an accurate color calibration. The rest of it is simply reducing the contrast for the first 100 hours. At that point, the TV's ready for calibration.

As far as the "jiggle" goes, you're late to the party as always. Panasonic's newer plasmas don't even have an image shifting mode because it's not needed. The color shifting on newer plasmas is done at the pixel level on static images -- not visible at all during normal viewing. And the newer phosphors are far less susceptible to burn-in to begin with. If screen burn-in was such an issue, why don't I see the ESPN logo permanently emblazoned into all 15 of the plasma screens at my favorite sports bar? :17:


OF course if you damage a LCD screen it will still work until you fix it,

Still Work = Unwatchable

Fix = Replace


wheareas a Plasma will pretty much be toast.

Toast, meaning undamaged by the same 1 joule impact that would render a LCD screen unwatchable? You have quite the wayward way with words, in that bizarro up equals down sort of way ... :lol:


Although buying a plasma is itself an act of insanity....:1:

Actually, your posts are a daily act of insanity ... :cool:

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 12:29 PM
If screen burn-in was such an issue, why don't I see the ESPN logo permanently emblazoned into all 15 of the plasma screens at my favorite sports bar? :17:
You're allowed to go to sports bars? Jeez... even the women in Cali are bleeding heart liberals aren't they? :D

GMichael
11-03-2008, 12:56 PM
You're allowed to go to sports bars? Jeez... even the women in Cali are bleeding heart liberals aren't they? :D

See what you've been missing out on?

Woochifer
11-03-2008, 01:09 PM
You're allowed to go to sports bars? Jeez... even the women in Cali are bleeding heart liberals aren't they? :D

Only if I take the baby with me! (She loves watching TV, but 15 screens all at once? It's nappy time!)

And my wife's not from these parts! :D

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 01:23 PM
See what you've been missing out on?
I couldn't afford to live out there. Only rich people like Wooch & nightflier can.

Good idea on taking Kaylee (sorry, I forgot how her name is spelled) to the loud sports bars. It'll toughen up her eardrums. :thumbsup:

L.J.
11-03-2008, 01:34 PM
You're allowed to go to sports bars? Jeez... even the women in Cali are bleeding heart liberals aren't they? :D

Here we go again :lol:

Woochifer
11-03-2008, 01:50 PM
I couldn't afford to live out there. Only rich people like Wooch & nightflier can.

Good idea on taking Kaylee (sorry, I forgot how her name is spelled) to the loud sports bars. It'll toughen up her eardrums. :thumbsup:

Yuh, so rich that I waited on a Costco coupon special before upgrading to HDTV! :8:

Talk to Terrence about how to afford life out here -- he's the one with the Pioneer Elite plasma and two kids in private colleges! :D I'm just breaking in a Panny TV and getting mentally prepped to send my daughter off for a 20+ year adventure in Cali public education (that's presuming that she'll get her doctorate -- after all, she's already the most brilliant 17-month old ever born!)

Fortunately, I've only taken Kayley to sports bars during the early pre-season games. No way, I'd subject her to something like the NCAA tournament or a rivalry game! Whaddo I look like, a bad parent or somethin'? :cool:

GMichael
11-03-2008, 02:03 PM
17 months?!
WTF!
It seems like just last month you were telling us you were prego.

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 02:35 PM
Umm... GM, don't you remember the 1st birthday party we had for her? (I suspect Old-Timers disease is setting in bub.)

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 02:44 PM
Yuh, so rich that I waited on a Costco coupon special before upgrading to HDTV! :8:
Good point. See how pixie's influence is rubbing off on us? :biggrin5:


Talk to Terrence about how to afford life out here -- he's the one with the Pioneer Elite plasma and two kids in private colleges! :D I'm just breaking in a Panny TV and getting mentally prepped to send my daughter off for a 20+ year adventure in Cali public education (that's presuming that she'll get her doctorate -- after all, she's already the most brilliant 17-month old ever born!)
Sir T. works for Sony so...

And wait'll Kayley turns 24 mos. She'll be telling YOU what to do.


Fortunately, I've only taken Kayley to sports bars during the early pre-season games. No way, I'd subject her to something like the NCAA tournament or a rivalry game! Whaddo I look like, a bad parent or somethin'? :cool:
Well, if they're smoke-free bars then no, you're not a bad parent. :thumbsup:

Woochifer
11-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Good point. See how pixie's influence is rubbing off on us? :biggrin5:

Although I would add that my saving grace is that I actually looked at the picture before buying! :ciappa:


Sir T. works for Sony so...

REALLY??? :15:


And wait'll Kayley turns 24 mos. She'll be telling YOU what to do.

She already does, y'know with that two-note temper tantrum vocabulary. Add a few indecipherable words, and she'll pass pix ... :cool:


Well, if they're smoke-free bars then no, you're not a bad parent. :thumbsup:

You should know that one of the upsides of living in a People's Republic is smoke-free bars and restaurants! :cool:

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 03:13 PM
I live in The Republic of Texas!
(Yeah, they really DO believe that down here!)

nightflier
11-03-2008, 04:23 PM
I live in The Republic of Texas!
(Yeah, they really DO believe that down here!)

...after Obama wins this thing tomorrow, we won''t mind too much. You can have McCain as your president/king/premier, whatever. Heck you can even commit him and have hot-legged Palin as your queen. Shucks, we'll even thrown in that swath from Kentucky to Louisiana on West to Arizona in there too, just to be nice. Enjoy!

The advantage to us here at AR, of course, is that we'll be expanding our international exposure to hi-fi. You can officially be our South-of-the-border 'cultural' exchange.

Rich-n-Texas
11-03-2008, 06:25 PM
Hey, I'm only here for the money. Don't get me mixed up with the real hillbillies.

pixelthis
11-03-2008, 11:26 PM
You're allowed to go to sports bars? Jeez... even the women in Cali are bleeding heart liberals aren't they? :D

To him a "sports bar" is a chuckee -cheese.
BTW Rich I JUST WANT TO OFFER MY CONDOLENCES
on Texas losing the No 1 spot, a really really terrible thing and,
and...
oh the heck with it

rolltide

pixelthis
11-03-2008, 11:28 PM
THE ALABAMA CRIMSOM TIDE


THE NUMBER ONE TEAM IN THE NATION!!!

pixelthis
11-03-2008, 11:30 PM
and plasma is dead...btw :1:

Rich-n-Texas
11-04-2008, 05:52 AM
Enjoy your brief time in the spotlight pix. The Horn's will be right back on top in NO time. The Tide backed it's way into #1 and will back right back out before you know it. :yesnod:

GMichael
11-04-2008, 06:03 AM
Umm... GM, don't you remember the 1st birthday party we had for her? (I suspect Old-Timers disease is setting in bub.)
Maybe I've got selective memory to add to my CRS.

Woochifer
11-04-2008, 07:19 AM
To him a "sports bar" is a chuckee -cheese.

Never been to a Chucky Cheese (I presume though that you speak from experience as a former employee), and I doubt that my favorite sports bar (pictured below) bears any resemblance.

http://www.oldpropa.com/thepro_side.jpg


and plasma is dead...btw

Must be the top of the hour, I hear a cuckoo repeating himself :Yawn:

Rich-n-Texas
11-04-2008, 07:40 AM
I see hot wings on plates. How are they?

Woochifer
11-04-2008, 09:02 AM
I see hot wings on plates. How are they?

Pretty good, but I'm more partial to their ahi tuna appetizer and garlic fries (yes, this is California) :cool:

pixelthis
11-05-2008, 01:13 AM
Pretty good, but I'm more partial to their ahi tuna appetizer and garlic fries (yes, this is California) :cool:

Wussy food.
Nice pic you lifted from someplace.:1:

pixelthis
11-05-2008, 01:16 AM
Enjoy your brief time in the spotlight pix. The Horn's will be right back on top in NO time. The Tide backed it's way into #1 and will back right back out before you know it. :yesnod:


The tide being numero uno is the natural state of affairs.
HERES the "place" for your upstart longhorns for the rest of the season.:1:

Woochifer
11-05-2008, 01:30 PM
Wussy food.
Nice pic you lifted from someplace.:1:

Someplace = The Old Pro in Palo Alto

pix food = moonshine and BBQ'd squirrels :dita:

pixelthis
11-06-2008, 12:15 AM
Someplace = The Old Pro in Palo Alto

pix food = moonshine and BBQ'd squirrels :dita:

YEAH, I wanted to raise my standards by coming to your
wine and cheese party but I couldnt find a brand of ripple that went
with Velveta.
Besides, get enough "wining" from you on this board:1:

Rich-n-Texas
11-06-2008, 05:28 AM
I remember when my Mom used to make grilled cheese sandwiches with velvetta cheese when I was a youngster. I loved 'em!

Woochifer
11-06-2008, 10:38 AM
YEAH, I wanted to raise my standards by coming to your
wine and cheese party but I couldnt find a brand of ripple that went
with Velveta.
Besides, get enough "wining" from you on this board:1:

:groan: Please stick to the inane rambling rants. Accidental/unintentional humor is more your strong suit :cool:

Woochifer
11-06-2008, 10:40 AM
I remember when my Mom used to make grilled cheese sandwiches with velvetta cheese when I was a youngster. I loved 'em!

I think pix actually views Velveeta as a step up :cool:

pixelthis
11-07-2008, 12:18 AM
:groan: Please stick to the inane rambling rants. Accidental/unintentional humor is more your strong suit :cool:
Oh no , you are teh undisputed king of that

EVERY time you open your mouth you say something simply
hilarious.
BUT the biggest joke is gonna be on you a few years down the road
when the family unit cant understand why they cant watch their favorite show, and you have to explain that the shiny new "plasma tv"
has turned into a giant door stop.
OR you invite everyone over to watch the big game, and they have to watch it overlayed with your latest videogame, or mayby the crawl from fox news.
What you govt wonks dont understand is that you can prattle all you want, reality is STILL gonna bite you in the butt:1:

GMichael
11-07-2008, 06:50 AM
Oh no , you are teh undisputed king of that

EVERY time you open your mouth you say something simply
hilarious.
BUT the biggest joke is gonna be on you a few years down the road
when the family unit cant understand why they cant watch their favorite show, and you have to explain that the shiny new "plasma tv"
has turned into a giant door stop.
OR you invite everyone over to watch the big game, and they have to watch it overlayed with your latest videogame, or mayby the crawl from fox news.
What you govt wonks dont understand is that you can prattle all you want, reality is STILL gonna bite you in the butt:1:


You're still living in the past. Reality from 1998 is not the same as the reality here in 2008. You do know that it's 2008 right? Plasma burn-in has gone bye bye. Plasma half life is up to 100,000 hours now. At 4 hours a day, every day, that is still over 68 years. No offense Wooch, but I don't think you'll be around as long as your plasma will. If you are, you'll be drinking your blended food through a straw.:yikes:

Maybe you'll upgrade sometime before that.

Woochifer
11-07-2008, 08:48 AM
Oh no , you are teh undisputed king of that

EVERY time you open your mouth you say something simply
hilarious.
BUT the biggest joke is gonna be on you a few years down the road
when the family unit cant understand why they cant watch their favorite show, and you have to explain that the shiny new "plasma tv"
has turned into a giant door stop.
OR you invite everyone over to watch the big game, and they have to watch it overlayed with your latest videogame, or mayby the crawl from fox news.
What you govt wonks dont understand is that you can prattle all you want, reality is STILL gonna bite you in the butt:1:

Heh, pixie make it funny again! :cool: More proof positive that accidental humor is your area of expertise. Try not to let reality creep into your rantings, it would be sad to deprive the board of your unintentional comedy by you actually posting something sane and truthful! :out:

Woochifer
11-07-2008, 09:11 AM
You're still living in the past. Reality from 1998 is not the same as the reality here in 2008. You do know that it's 2008 right? Plasma burn-in has gone bye bye. Plasma half life is up to 100,000 hours now. At 4 hours a day, every day, that is still over 68 years.

Not to mention that plasma reliability is now on par with LCD. Oh, but that's more of that intrusive 2008 reality thing. :shocked:


No offense Wooch, but I don't think you'll be around as long as your plasma will. If you are, you'll be drinking your blended food through a straw.:yikes:

Blended food is an acquired taste :ciappa:


Maybe you'll upgrade sometime before that.

Upgrade? I haven't even done the first color calibration on my set yet! :cool:

GMichael
11-07-2008, 09:18 AM
Not to mention that plasma reliability is now on par with LCD. Oh, but that's more of that intrusive 2008 reality thing. :shocked:



Blended food is an acquired taste :ciappa:



Upgrade? I haven't even done the first color calibration on my set yet! :cool:


Fracking 2008! At least it will be gone soon.

I could do without that taste.

You've got 68 years to save up for that next upgrade. I'm sure you'll have this one calibrated by then.

Rich-n-Texas
11-07-2008, 10:57 AM
Don't knock blended food. It makes life MUCH easier!

nightflier
11-10-2008, 05:17 PM
Don't knock blended food. It makes life MUCH easier!

Hey Billy Bob, I mean Tex, Is that because of the teeth?

:p

pixelthis
11-10-2008, 11:57 PM
You're still living in the past. Reality from 1998 is not the same as the reality here in 2008. You do know that it's 2008 right? Plasma burn-in has gone bye bye. Plasma half life is up to 100,000 hours now. At 4 hours a day, every day, that is still over 68 years. No offense Wooch, but I don't think you'll be around as long as your plasma will. If you are, you'll be drinking your blended food through a straw.:yikes:

Maybe you'll upgrade sometime before that.


BULLHOCKY

You will live to eat those words.
Really, 100,000 hours? 68 years? AND you've been around awhile,
but plasma I know hasnt been around 68 years, so how do you KNOW?
Reminds me of what MARK TWAIN said, that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics"
I have seen CRT tubes taken apart, SET tubes also, and beleive
me, when it comes to something as complicated as a plasma tube,
well, I have a bridge in Jersey I would like to sell you cheap.
WE dont have the tech to build a plasma tube that will last that long,
we could travel to Mars easier.
The phospers alone arent going to last that long.
Some people will beleive ANYTHING

GMichael
11-11-2008, 06:17 AM
BULLHOCKY

You will live to eat those words.
Really, 100,000 hours? 68 years? AND you've been around awhile,
but plasma I know hasnt been around 68 years, so how do you KNOW?
Reminds me of what MARK TWAIN said, that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics"
I have seen CRT tubes taken apart, SET tubes also, and beleive
me, when it comes to something as complicated as a plasma tube,
well, I have a bridge in Jersey I would like to sell you cheap.
WE dont have the tech to build a plasma tube that will last that long,
we could travel to Mars easier.
The phospers alone arent going to last that long.
Some people will beleive ANYTHING

Maybe you should do a little actual research before you spout off such nonsense. It makes you look like.. well... Pixy.

nightflier
11-12-2008, 10:48 AM
Not to ruin the fun and get this thread back on the original topic or anything, but wouldn't it solve a lot of problems to just put a sheet of glass in front of the LCD screen? Shouldn't be too expensive (a lot less than replacing or repairing that TV, anyhow). Actually, some manufacturers, like Sony and Olevia have a glass plate as part of the screen already, no? I would think that repairing a crack in one of these would be less expensive that the actual LCD panel.

Woochifer
11-12-2008, 11:49 AM
Not to ruin the fun and get this thread back on the original topic or anything, but wouldn't it solve a lot of problems to just put a sheet of glass in front of the LCD screen? Shouldn't be too expensive (a lot less than replacing or repairing that TV, anyhow). Actually, some manufacturers, like Sony and Olevia have a glass plate as part of the screen already, no? I would think that repairing a crack in one of these would be less expensive that the actual LCD panel.

Samsung's latest top-of-the-line LCD TVs have gone to a glossy look, and glossy screens were already all the rage with computer monitors. Not sure if these glossy screens use a more fortified layer over the LCD panel, but I know that Apple's glossy screens on the iMacs (not sure about the Macbooks) use a glass layer.

As far as retrofitting existing LCD TVs, I have seen people posting pictures of various Wiishields that look like something taken out of a hockey arena (just a standalone plexiglas panel that stands in front of the TV). Not sure if these are actual products on the market or if it's a homemade project or just a joke, but obviously somebody put thought and effort into this issue already.

Woochifer
11-12-2008, 12:21 PM
Maybe you should do a little actual research before you spout off such nonsense. It makes you look like.. well... Pixy.

Research?! But, that would entail actually writing something NEW! :cool:

Worf101
11-13-2008, 05:32 AM
You know in some sort of perverse way I find it amazing how Pix can change any post on almost ANY subject into a single minded rant about the shortcomings of Plasma vs. Godzilla, Gidorah, LCD take your pick...

As Spock would say.... "fascinating".

Da Worfster

GMichael
11-13-2008, 06:27 AM
Not to ruin the fun and get this thread back on the original topic or anything, but wouldn't it solve a lot of problems to just put a sheet of glass in front of the LCD screen? Shouldn't be too expensive (a lot less than replacing or repairing that TV, anyhow). Actually, some manufacturers, like Sony and Olevia have a glass plate as part of the screen already, no? I would think that repairing a crack in one of these would be less expensive that the actual LCD panel.

Would probably work, but may add some glare.

GMichael
11-13-2008, 06:32 AM
Research?! But, that would entail actually writing something NEW! :cool:

I'm betting that he already knows that a lot of what he says is not that accurate. He's just having fun. And it gives us someone to pick on.

Rich-n-Texas
11-13-2008, 06:34 AM
You know in some sort of perverse way I find it amazing how Pix can change any post on almost ANY subject into a single minded rant about the shortcomings of Plasma vs. Godzilla, Gidorah, LCD take your pick...

As Spock would say.... "fascinating".

Da Worfster
Welcome to the Wide World of Pixelthis! :crazy:

GMichael
11-13-2008, 06:34 AM
You know in some sort of perverse way I find it amazing how Pix can change any post on almost ANY subject into a single minded rant about the shortcomings of Plasma vs. Godzilla, Gidorah, LCD take your pick...

As Spock would say.... "fascinating".

Da Worfster

Fun isn't he.

pixelthis
11-13-2008, 11:19 PM
Fun isn't he.


The "fun" is going to be in a few years when all of these nice new plasmas start dropping dead.
You do know that everything I say(as opposed to wooch, who is just making stuff up) is based on what I have read and hard experience,
don't ya?
DENIAL aint just a river in Egypt, to use an old saying.:1:

Woochifer
11-14-2008, 04:38 PM
The "fun" is going to be in a few years when all of these nice new plasmas start dropping dead.
You do know that everything I say(as opposed to wooch, who is just making stuff up) is based on what I have read and hard experience,
don't ya?
DENIAL aint just a river in Egypt, to use an old saying.:1:

:out:

pixelthis
11-14-2008, 04:59 PM
Always the answer for someone with no other answer.
Just do me a favor, okay?
Write pixlethis in large letters on a piece of paper and stick it under that shiny new toy of yours, or tape it to the back somewhere.
When it goes in for repairs in a few years(like a lot that belong to people I know) this will be my little "I told you so".
Thanks:1:

Woochifer
11-14-2008, 06:11 PM
Always the answer for someone with no other answer.
Just do me a favor, okay?
Write pixlethis in large letters on a piece of paper and stick it under that shiny new toy of yours, or tape it to the back somewhere.
When it goes in for repairs in a few years(like a lot that belong to people I know) this will be my little "I told you so".
Thanks:1:

:out:

pixelthis
11-16-2008, 06:14 PM
No need for the emoticon, I ALREADY KNOW that you are half past crazy.
Just answer the question please, will you put my "told you so"
note on the back of your shiny new toy, soon to be a shiny new
paperweight/ picture frame?:1:

Woochifer
11-16-2008, 06:21 PM
No need for the emoticon, I ALREADY KNOW that you are half past crazy.
Just answer the question please, will you put my "told you so"
note on the back of your shiny new toy, soon to be a shiny new
paperweight/ picture frame?:1:

:out:

pixelthis
11-16-2008, 06:26 PM
THINK you're speechless now, wait until you crank your tv one day
and find out that its turned into a radio(sound but no picture).
WOOCH'S family trying to entertain themselves without a TV...:1:

Woochifer
11-16-2008, 09:36 PM
THINK you're speechless now, wait until you crank your tv one day
and find out that its turned into a radio(sound but no picture).
WOOCH'S family trying to entertain themselves without a TV...:1:

:out:

nightflier
11-17-2008, 04:09 PM
...:out: can say so much.

Not to muddy the waters or anything, but I was just reading the specs on the top of the line (for Costco) Panasonic TH-C50FD18 50" plasma they are selling for $1399.99. Now I don't know what actual non-Costco model number that translates to (maybe someone can enlighten me), or if this is an older/overstock model, but that's a lot of TV for $1399.99. Comparable LCDs, albeit measuring 52", are at least $200 more.

Anyhow, the spec says that brightness will reach it's half-way mark after 100,000 hours. According to Panasonic, that translates to 30 years of 8 hours a day TV watching in the typical home. They did not say how it was adjusted in these tests. Now granted, 30 years sounds distant, but by that time it will be half as bright, that is 50% of the brightness when new, and basically worthless. Now I'm no mathematician, but doesn't that mean that it will reach it's completely off stage (picture-frame stage according to Pixelthis) after 60 years? Looking at it another way, it will be less bright by 10% after 6 years.

Now we're talking decades of ownership, but what is something like this worth on the used market? After all, after just 3 years it will be 5% less bright. How many of us would buy a set of used speakers if we knew it would be 5% less less clear? How about an amp manufactured in 1996 that was already 20% less loud? And Plasma is very sensitive technology, too. For example, would anyone actually buy a used Plasma since "anything" could have happened to it? With CRTs, that wasn't so much a fear, and even they are practically worthless. As a point of reference, I just sold my 8 year old 42" CRT (HD-ready/1080i/Component/Widescreen) for $300, and it was immaculately clean, nothing wrong with it except that it needs an external digital tuner for the Feb.'09 switch-over. Anyhow, I bought it on sale at CC for $1450.

So will that Costco $1399 plasma sell for $300 in 8 years? I'm not so sure I'll even be able to give it away as Plasma will be seen in a worse light than CRTs are today. For one, Mitsubishi's laser technology is getting some impressive reviews. While perhaps short-lived, LCD will be seen as the Toyota Prius of TVs in this decade, while Plasma will be seen as the Escalade, a symbol of consumer extravagance (Pioneer Plasma as the Hummer?). Considering how fast CRTs became obsolete, it certainly doesn't bode well for Plasma, even if it does have a better picture.

Woochifer
11-17-2008, 05:16 PM
...:out: can say so much.

Yep, no need to waste more time and words than I have to. :cool:


Not to muddy the waters or anything, but I was just reading the specs on the top of the line (for Costco) Panasonic TH-C50FD18 50" plasma they are selling for $1399.99. Now I don't know what actual non-Costco model number that translates to (maybe someone can enlighten me), or if this is an older/overstock model, but that's a lot of TV for $1399.99. Comparable LCDs, albeit measuring 52", are at least $200 more.

That's actually Panasonic's current entry level 1080p plasma series. The model equivalent for that Costco model (TH-C50FD18) is the TH-50PZ80U. The difference between the two models is that the Costco model uses a matte black bezel rather than gloss black, and it includes a PC input. The TH-50PZ80U came out back in March with a $2,000 list price, and I've seen other online vendors selling it for under $1,400. I bought the Costco model because they have a 90-day return policy (which also includes 90 days of price protection -- if the price goes down within 90 days, you get the difference) and double the factory warranty.

The model above the TH-50PZ80U has a higher rated contrast ratio and better picture controls, and subsequent models above that one use a single-pane design and add THX certification and other pro level fine tuning features.

When comparing the LCD, you also need to consider that only the more expensive 120 Hz LCD TVs have a motion resolution consistently above 480 lines. (The Panny 1080p TVs were measured at over 800 lines with moving images last year, and they claim 900 lines for this year's models).


Anyhow, the spec says that brightness will reach it's half-way mark after 100,000 hours. According to Panasonic, that translates to 30 years of 8 hours a day TV watching in the typical home. They did not say how it was adjusted in these tests. Now granted, 30 years sounds distant, but by that time it will be half as bright, that is 50% of the brightness when new, and basically worthless. Now I'm no mathematician, but doesn't that mean that it will reach it's completely off stage (picture-frame stage according to Pixelthis) after 60 years? Looking at it another way, it will be less bright by 10% after 6 years.

The half-life brightness is the standard measure that's used across the industry. Just like the MTBF (mean time between failure) is used with computer components. No one cares about the 25% time at which units fail.

If you're using a calibrated setting, the recommended brightness setting on the Panny is less than 40%, and the picture setting is less than 60%. Even the defaults are less than 70%.


Now we're talking decades of ownership, but what is something like this worth on the used market? After all, after just 3 years it will be 5% less bright. How many of us would buy a set of used speakers if we knew it would be 5% less less clear? How about an amp manufactured in 1996 that was already 20% less loud? And Plasma is very sensitive technology, too. For example, would anyone actually buy a used Plasma since "anything" could have happened to it? With CRTs, that wasn't so much a fear, and even they are practically worthless. As a point of reference, I just sold my 8 year old 42" CRT (HD-ready/1080i/Component/Widescreen) for $300, and it was immaculately clean, nothing wrong with it except that it needs an external digital tuner for the Feb.'09 switch-over. Anyhow, I bought it on sale at CC for $1450.

So will that Costco $1399 plasma sell for $300 in 8 years? I'm not so sure I'll even be able to give it away as Plasma will be seen in a worse light than CRTs are today. For one, Mitsubishi's laser technology is getting some impressive reviews. While perhaps short-lived, LCD will be seen as the Toyota Prius of TVs in this decade, while Plasma will be seen as the Escalade, a symbol of consumer extravagance (Pioneer Plasma as the Hummer?). Considering how fast CRTs became obsolete, it certainly doesn't bode well for Plasma, even if it does have a better picture.

What it's worth used is contingent on it's worth new. Three years ago, my parents bought their 50" flat screen for over $4,000. And that same model was introduced less than a year earlier with a list price of $7,000. Yet, that $1,400 Panny outperforms my parents' TV. In three years, who knows, maybe that TV will sell for $300.

I don't know where you get this idea that a plasma is an extravagance when they cost less than LCDs, while still providing superior performance in most measures. CRTs faded in the North American market precisely because people wanted the extravagance of large flat panel, wall-mountable TVs. CRTs were the only HDTV tech that could perform equally well with SD and HD programming, but people simply didn't want a hulking 200 lb. box in their living room. But, in other countries, CRT remains alive and well because it's a mature and inexpensive technology. In fact, last year global shipments of CRTs continued to outsell LCDs because of exploding demand from developing countries.

Plasma will inevitably fade away when a clearly superior screen tech comes along, but at this point, that tech has not arrived yet. And I don't see plasma fading away anytime soon, with the plasma market having a record breaking year with year-to-year sales up by more than 30%. There's talk about OLED, but so far the only OLED TV on the market is a 11" Sony that sells for more than $2,000. If OLED is all that it's cut out to be, then LCD and plasma will both go by the wayside, but not until OLED screen sizes can stretch to at least 40". Samsung says it will be at least two more years before that happens.