HT 2.0 Upgrade Begins: 50" 1080p Panny has landed

[Woochifer]

Aside from my SACD player purchase three years ago, my home theater 1.0 has remained relatively unchanged for the better part of five years. For about the same amount of time, I've contemplated upgrading to a HDTV, but all of the technologies had a significant shortcoming and/or high price point that kept me on the sidelines. It wasn't until 1080p plasma and 120 Hz LCD flat panels hit the market last year that I revisited the HDTV upgrade.

Well, today the first component of the 2.0 upgrade arrived. :cool:

Yes, I finally pulled the trigger and upgraded the monitor to a 50" 1080p Panasonic plasma (model TH-C50FD18, which is the same thing as the TH-50PZ80U). In my evaluations, I consistently found that the Panny plasmas provided the best balance between performance and price, and it was only a matter of when. Well, this month's Costco circular had a manufacturer's coupon for the 50" Pannys, bringing the price down to $1,400. Along with their generous 90-day return policy, standard doubling of the factory warranty, and free shipping, this turned the question of when into NOW.

So far, I've only done rudimentary adjustments and have yet to do any critical viewing, given that I still have to upgrade the video sources. But, using just a pair of rabbit ears borrowed from one of our old 20" CRT TVs, I was able to pull in more than 20 digital channels. Not much HD content on the air this afternoon, so I've yet to do a lot of HD viewing. But, so far I'd have to say that the picture looks quite good.

Right now, I'm doing the burn-in procedures recommended by the regulars over at the AVS Forum (i.e., using the stretch mode, etc. for the first 100 hours) before breaking out my Digital Video Essentials disc for screen calibration.

NEXT STEPS
The immediate next step is to upgrade my sources. I've readied my Directv service for the HD upgrade (I have a HR22 satellite receiver waiting for the installer), and ordered a 20' HDMI cable from Blue Jeans Cable. I'm also making a WAF compromise in buying a telescoping swivel wall mount for the HDTV (another $200).

After that, things are slightly more up in the air. Thinking about going with a PS3 to serve as the Blu-ray player and replacement for my 480i Denon DVD player. I also like its media center and gaming capabilities (though I don't like that Sony has eliminated SACD and PS2 gaming support with the newer PS3s). However, the PS3 has performed poorly as a progressive scan DVD player, and I have over 500 DVDs in my collection, most of which I do not plan to replace with BDs.

So, I could go with an Oppo DVD player or go with a standalone Blu-ray player, or I could go with both for not much more than what the PS3 would cost. But, then I wouldn't get the media center and gaming capabilities in the process. We'll see how this all sifts out.

In the meantime, I'll post my impressions of the set once I get the set properly calibrated and start running more HD sources.

[kexodusc]

Congrats on the new TV Wooch. Looks like you picked a good time to strike and take home the model you've been eyeballing. It looks like a great set and I'm sure it'll do what you want it to do.

I am a recent, happy owner of the PS3. In terms of it's DVD capabilities, well, I bought it knowing that the PS3, like most BluRay players, would be fairly mediocre at best with DVD, but I think a lot of the knock on them needs to be put into perspective. I've watched several DVD's on mine, Back to the Future, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jurassic Park, Scarface, and LOTR Trilogy. It probably doesn't keep up with the latest DVD players PQ, but it easily holds pace with 2 of the 3 players in my house that are 3 years old or more. It's not like the DVD's are unwatchable or PQ sucks.
I'm guessing the vast majority of people out there wouldn't know the issues unless you took great pains to point them out. Same goes for any BluRay player.

If you're like me, any DVD watching you do in the future will only be movies you already own and enjoy. Usually when I watch a favorite, I'm lost in the story and don't have time to nitpick a few PQ issues, so they go unnoticed. If you're a person that is absolutely annoyed by any artifacts or slight imperfections, well then I guess you know what you need to do already anyway.
Guess you'll have to decide how important that is to you. If you can swing it, I like the idea of separate players for DVD/BluRay. I kept my universal player in my HT room for everything but BluRay, but I could just as easily use the PS3 for all my video needs without complaints.
Good luck with the rest of the upgrades :)

[kelsci]

Hi Woochifer; congradulations on your purchase. I can see you did much wise planning before you put down the bucks to get the most out of those bucks.

Even with the rabbit ears, in the evenings you can sample some HD programming on the major network shows in 1080i from NBC and CBS on your affiliate in your area to see how your set looks in high-def. If your set can upconvert standard def to 1080p video, you could certainly try your denon dvd 480i player and see what that does. Upconverted standard dvd looks quite good IMHO. My brother owns a 5054 Samsung 720P high-def tv with a upconverting Magnavox dvd player that is sold at Wal-Mart. Both work great in tandem with each other and standard dvd movies play great over this set with this player(though the player does not output DTS but does output fine D.D. 5.1 audio).

I have sampled HD cablecasts from a HD box from comcast of which he has hooked up to his set and depending on the channel and the material broadcasted, much of it looked quite good and even great. For awhile we given some premium channels by the "great comcast" network. IMHO HBO looked the best in high-def. What these stations will look like on satellite, I do not know although I understand they are supposed to look better. I think you will be the judge of that when you are hooked up yourself. I also tryed the 5.1 dolby digital surround sound that was fed thru my brothers Marantz/Mirage set-up and it did work well with the HBO,STARZ, and CINEMAX feed so it is a worthwhile thing hookup to do. Quite a few stations were in 5.1 like the food channel which suprisingly had good sound in 5.1 with its music.

My brothers friend bought a Pansonic 720P last year and has had very good results with the unit. My brother says it plays very well and it is hooked up on satellite. When my brother was going out to buy a set last year, it was a toss-up among a few models including the Panasonic. At that time, for what could be evaluated in the stores, the Samsung in our opinion produced the best picture but the Pansonics were no slouches but their anti-flective screen model 77 were not available anymore either, only the non-reflective 75s. By the way, 50 inch is a great size plasma.

I think that you will find a "new" relationship with the movies that you have watched in the past, sort of a "you are there" apprach, a sort of "overseer" as you begin to watch the dvds that you have watched on the smaller sets you have owned. See if you get that feeling over time.

[RoadRunner6]

Woochifer, excellent choice and a great bargain. I'm sure you'll be very pleased.

A possible alternative suggestion for you and others considering a wall mount. I talked two people at work out of wall mounting and into a stand that is placed right up against the wall. It saves the holes in the wall, the cost of the bracket and is a great place for some components, a center channel and hides all wires very neatly. Just some food for thought. I own a Bello component rack and they are very nice appearing and excellent quality.

One of my friends got this particular stand at CC (it ia also available online). It is a beautiful black glass and looks great with his black 50" Panny (looks even better than the photo). It is not very deep and he has the Panny almost against the wall at eye level. Bello.com has many other choices.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GU7FDY/?tag=streetprices151-20&creative=380337&creativeASIN=B000GU7FDY&linkCode=asn

http://www.audio-video-furniture.com/Common/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?ID=8509

RR6

[blackraven]

Hey Wooch, how does the standard definition on the plasma stack up a tube TV? We are thinking about getting a plasma for our bedroom and only have std digital cable in our bedroom. We have HD TV in our family room but i dont want to spend another $16/month for another HD box?

For a BluRay player and DVD, I would try and wait for the new Oppo coming out some time this winter. Otherwise buy a BRP or PS3 and one of the oppo DVDP's.

[DetroitIrish]

congrats!

[L.J.]

It's about freakin' time :biggrin5:

Congrats on the display. I like how my Costco keeps 'em right in the doorway so you have no choice but to look when you walk in.

I agree with the comments Kex made on the PS3/DVD issue. Most of my movie viewing is BR. I still watch my DVD's, but never really give PQ a second thought.

I consider the PS3 to be one of the best HT purchases I've made. If I had to purchase a new player today, I would still go with the PS3. The streaming/media center abilities plus excellent BR playback makes it one heck of a deal, IMO. I don't mind the gaming part either :wink5:

[RoadRunner6]

Hey Wooch, how does the standard definition on the plasma stack up a tube TV? We are thinking about getting a plasma for our bedroom and only have std digital cable in our bedroom.

I'll just add my findings along with any response from Wooch. I had a Sony 27 Trinitron in the bedroom. Now we have the older 42" 480p JVC plasma back up in the bedroom. It definitely looks even better than the Sony on SDTV. I am very happy with the PQ of the JVC on SD. I had it downstairs recently and tested it against the new Panny 768p Costco TH-C50HD18. I thought the Panny was slightly better than the JVC on SDTV. I think the SD signal is better upstairs in the bedroom because the SDTV looks even better up there than in the living room (we have no cable boxes). My conclusion is that the difference is in the RF cable. I'm going to buy all new RG6 F cables soon.

You might consider the Panny 42" 768p plasma now $699 at Costco for your bedroom. BTW, the BD PQ from a Panny BD35 looked superb on the 768p and amazingly good on the 480p JVC.

RR6

[blackraven]

Thanks RR!

[DetroitIrish]

i just hooked up an LG (42pg20)That replaced a 4 yr old 36" Trinitron, also amazed at how well the analog signal look on it! I used to work for one of te sat companies, and used to seeing the backfed signal look like @$$ on most HDTVs, but this one shocked me

[blackraven]

Well, it looks like its going to be a plasma TV for my bedroom. LCD TV's typically have crappy pics on STD def. My Sony XBR4 LCD has poor pic quality on STD def with comcast HD service. The HD pic is awesome though.

[Woochifer]

Thanx for all the comments.

Been watching the OTA channels that my rabbit ears can pull in, and I must say that the HD picture quality looks absolutely stunning. Better than most of the demo reels that I've seen run in stores. I've also done some rudimentary comparisons between the stations broadcasting in 720p versus 1080i. Between Fox (720p) and CBS & NBC (1080i) (can't pull in the ABC or PBS affiliates), I can definitely tell that 1080i has a more detailed picture. But, at the same time, it also seems that 720p handles motion better.

Should be interesting to see how the OTA picture quality compares with Directv, given that Directv uses a much lower bandwidth and uses the more efficient MPEG-4 codec. If the Directv picture loses some picture quality, I might have a hard time unplugging the rabbit ears from the TV!


Congrats on the new TV Wooch. Looks like you picked a good time to strike and take home the model you've been eyeballing. It looks like a great set and I'm sure it'll do what you want it to do.

I am a recent, happy owner of the PS3. In terms of it's DVD capabilities, well, I bought it knowing that the PS3, like most BluRay players, would be fairly mediocre at best with DVD, but I think a lot of the knock on them needs to be put into perspective. I've watched several DVD's on mine, Back to the Future, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jurassic Park, Scarface, and LOTR Trilogy. It probably doesn't keep up with the latest DVD players PQ, but it easily holds pace with 2 of the 3 players in my house that are 3 years old or more. It's not like the DVD's are unwatchable or PQ sucks.

Thanx Kex, I'm kind of leaning in that direction now. Even with 480i material, the Panny seems to do a decent job with upscaling the signal. Very smooth image, but definitely a noticeable step down in resolution compared to the HD signals.

Even though the PS3 doesn't handle DVDs very well, I might be willing to go with that tradeoff for the PS3's top-notch Blu-ray playback and its media center capabilities.


Hi Woochifer; congradulations on your purchase. I can see you did much wise planning before you put down the bucks to get the most out of those bucks.

Even with the rabbit ears, in the evenings you can sample some HD programming on the major network shows in 1080i from NBC and CBS on your affiliate in your area to see how your set looks in high-def. If your set can upconvert standard def to 1080p video, you could certainly try your denon dvd 480i player and see what that does. Upconverted standard dvd looks quite good IMHO. My brother owns a 5054 Samsung 720P high-def tv with a upconverting Magnavox dvd player that is sold at Wal-Mart. Both work great in tandem with each other and standard dvd movies play great over this set with this player(though the player does not output DTS but does output fine D.D. 5.1 audio).

Hey Kelsci, good to hear from you! Pretty much any 1080p set will have to rescale a standard def signal, but I've read that it's usually better to have the signal upconverted before it reaches the set. Movies look pretty good from my Denon, but it definitely loses a lot compared to HD.

I've already been watching the World Series and the NFL on Fox and CBS. It's also introducing me to the differences between 1080i and 720p.

Crossing my fingers on the HD picture quality from Directv when the new dish gets installed on Thursday. That will be my only HD source for a while, until I add the Blu-ray player.


Woochifer, excellent choice and a great bargain. I'm sure you'll be very pleased.

A possible alternative suggestion for you and others considering a wall mount. I talked two people at work out of wall mounting and into a stand that is placed right up against the wall. It saves the holes in the wall, the cost of the bracket and is a great place for some components, a center channel and hides all wires very neatly. Just some food for thought. I own a Bello component rack and they are very nice appearing and excellent quality.

Good suggestion. I've seen the Bello racks and they look quite good. I already have two Salamander Synergy racks, one for the audio equipment, the other for media storage. I was going to get the flat panel mount that goes with that setup, but my wife insists on something that can telescope and swivel. So, we're going with the wall mount.


Hey Wooch, how does the standard definition on the plasma stack up a tube TV? We are thinking about getting a plasma for our bedroom and only have std digital cable in our bedroom. We have HD TV in our family room but i dont want to spend another $16/month for another HD box?

Generally, I've always found that for standard def inputs, any fixed pixel HDTV will be a step down in picture quality. Compared to our Mitsubishi CRT, the Panny does not look as good with standard def. Even for HD picture quality, I've found that CRTs look the best and can handle standard def equally well. But, flat panel has its own design advantages.

[pixelthis]

I went the integrated stand-mount route and highly recomend it.
I got an el-cheapo (229) with black smoked glass and it looks nice,
and I can rotate my TV as far as the cables streach .
I ONLY advise you to get a rather short pole, it looks better than a longer one.
Another advantage is that you can move the sucker a lot easier
if you want to.:1:

[Woochifer]

It's about freakin' time :biggrin5:

Congrats on the display. I like how my Costco keeps 'em right in the doorway so you have no choice but to look when you walk in.

I agree with the comments Kex made on the PS3/DVD issue. Most of my movie viewing is BR. I still watch my DVD's, but never really give PQ a second thought.

I consider the PS3 to be one of the best HT purchases I've made. If I had to purchase a new player today, I would still go with the PS3. The streaming/media center abilities plus excellent BR playback makes it one heck of a deal, IMO. I don't mind the gaming part either :wink5:

No kidding, it's freakin' time! I was actually ready to pull the trigger on a RPTV almost six years ago until my wife saw the gargantuan cabinet size and said no way. After that point, it was a constant vigil over the specs and prices on flat panel TVs. Then came the other home improvement projects and the baby, which put the HDTV on hold until now.

Seeing how the PS3 can wirelessly integrate with iTunes and iPhoto on my Mac, that makes it mighty tempting, regardless of any shortcomings with its DVD playback.


I went the integrated stand-mount route and highly recomend it.
I got an el-cheapo (229) with black smoked glass and it looks nice,
and I can rotate my TV as far as the cables streach .
I ONLY advise you to get a rather short pole, it looks better than a longer one.
Another advantage is that you can move the sucker a lot easier
if you want to.

Going with a rack mount was my first choice, but the mount that goes with my audio rack does not allow for rotation, and that was something that my wife insisted on. So, the telescoping wall mount arrives this week.

[DetroitIrish]

Seeing how the PS3 can wirelessly integrate with iTunes and iPhoto on my Mac, that makes it mighty tempting, regardless of any shortcomings with its DVD playback.

Not too sure about how easily it connects to Macs, but I had some issues w/ it connecting/recognizing my Vista machine, had to d/l Tversity to get it to share properly, just thought I'd give you a heads up incase you run into issues

[kexodusc]

Not too sure about how easily it connects to Macs, but I had some issues w/ it connecting/recognizing my Vista machine, had to d/l Tversity to get it to share properly, just thought I'd give you a heads up incase you run into issues
Yeah, that's more an issue with Windows being such an anti-anything-not-Microsoft whore, I too found Tversity much easier to get it working with the PS3 than Vista.

Haven't tried integrating it with the Macbook yet, but I probably won't bother, most of my media files or on my Linux box anyway.

[DetroitIrish]

gotta add a media server to my xmas list lol!

[Worf101]

As a recent upgrader myself, all I can say is congrats. I thought I was the last holdout among the "Old Guard" but I see you're behind watching my back. Please send pics when the hook up is done. I vote for stands myself. I was able to get one with good WAF and it holds all my components. What's your room layout if I may ask? Gonna upgrade your receiver anytime soon?

Once again congrats and...

send pics..

Da Worfster

[Woochifer]

As a recent upgrader myself, all I can say is congrats. I thought I was the last holdout among the "Old Guard" but I see you're behind watching my back. Please send pics when the hook up is done. I vote for stands myself. I was able to get one with good WAF and it holds all my components. What's your room layout if I may ask? Gonna upgrade your receiver anytime soon?

Once again congrats and...

send pics..

Da Worfster

:lol: Remember that I've been threatening to upgrade to HD for just about as long as I've been on this site!

I already shelled out another $170 for the new Directv HD DVR receiver, and the telescoping wall mount will also arrive this week (ch-ching, another $200). Then comes the Blu-ray player and an Oppo HDMI switch BECAUSE ... I don't see a new receiver sitting in the rack for probably at least another year.

The wall mount/swivel came about because my wife now spends a lot of time on the large chair, and got used to the angling the TV to her spot when she's watching. We originally bought those Salamander racks because they had the integrated flat panel mount as an option. But, since those mounts cannot swivel, my wife is now partial to the wall-mount.

As far as the room layout goes, it's a little different than what you see linked to my signature, except that the TV now sits on top of a double wide Salamander rack (similar to the one in the corner that houses the components). To accommodate my baby girl's newfound mobility, we pushed the sofa back to the wall (before that, we had a walkway behind the sofa), moved the speakers a couple of feet to the left, and moved the subwoofer so that it now sits next to the audio rack.

BEFORE - Home Theater 1.0 (v. 2.0 in progress)
http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//2/165819Theater10.jpg

[GMichael]

Congrats Wooch. And a great choice. Panasonic always seems to get good reviews on plasma sets.

Now all we have to do is convert Feaner to HD. He's the last hold out.

[Woochifer]

Congrats Wooch. And a great choice. Panasonic always seems to get good reviews on plasma sets.

Thanx GM. Once Panasonic went to 1080p on their plasmas last year, that pretty much decided it for me. This is their 9th generation plasma lineup, and they've been consistently at or near the top of the pack with their performance and reliability.


Now all we have to do is convert Feaner to HD. He's the last hold out.

I coulda sworn that there were others! :incazzato:

I'm sure we could conjure up a few more holdouts over in Rave Recs!

[GMichael]

I'm sure we could conjure up a few more holdouts over in Rave Recs!

They don't count. Some of them are still listening to AM radio.

[Woochifer]

They don't count. Some of them are still listening to AM radio.

:lol: It was worth a try ...

[Woochifer]

Not too sure about how easily it connects to Macs, but I had some issues w/ it connecting/recognizing my Vista machine, had to d/l Tversity to get it to share properly, just thought I'd give you a heads up incase you run into issues

Ick ... don't remind me about Vista! :incazzato:

With the Macs, there are plenty of ways to link up with a PS3. Several sites have posted some simple UNIX terminal commands that integrate the PS3 with a Mac.

But, I've been reading up on Nullriver's $20 MediaLink application. It's fully compatible with iTunes and iPhoto, and supposedly works like a charm. With iTunes now auto-generating these Genius playlists, it would be great to use the PS3 to run those playlists on my main system.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Congrats Wooch. Glad to see you've made it into the 21st century. :thumbsup:

Panasonic certainly is a name you can trust. My Panny CD/DVD changer soldiers on without a lick of trouble. (knock wood)

[Woochifer]

Congrats Wooch. Glad to see you've made it into the 21st century. :thumbsup:

Panasonic certainly is a name you can trust. My Panny CD/DVD changer soldiers on without a lick of trouble. (knock wood)

Yeah, it was getting a bit squirrelly as to whether I'd arrive in this century during this decade or the next! :cool:

A big part of the reason I went with Panasonic is the continuity with their plasma line. Panasonic develops and produces their own plasma panels, and they have full control over the manufacturing process because they own the fabrication facilities. No coincidence that the top three brands for plasma reliability (Pioneer, Panasonic, and Samsung) are vertically integrated with the plasma panel design and manufacturing, and final fabrication all done at company-owned facilities.

As much buzz as the new Vizio XVT plasmas have been getting on the AVS Forum and in early reviews, they still haven't arrived in stores, and with Vizio the outsource manufacturer will vary from model to model, so the reliability of a particular model is unknown until it gets out there.

[pixelthis]

Yeah, it was getting a bit squirrelly as to whether I'd arrive in this century during this decade or the next! :cool:

A big part of the reason I went with Panasonic is the continuity with their plasma line. Panasonic develops and produces their own plasma panels, and they have full control over the manufacturing process because they own the fabrication facilities. No coincidence that the top three brands for plasma reliability (Pioneer, Panasonic, and Samsung) are vertically integrated with the plasma panel design and manufacturing, and final fabrication all done at company-owned facilities.

As much buzz as the new Vizio XVT plasmas have been getting on the AVS Forum and in early reviews, they still haven't arrived in stores, and with Vizio the outsource manufacturer will vary from model to model, so the reliability of a particular model is unknown until it gets out there.


Never mind the fact that most companies use outsourced panels,
and the only reason Panasonic can use their own is because their parent company , matshuhita is about the biggest company
on the planel and a major producer of plasma screens.
TELL the truth now!:1:

[Woochifer]

Never mind the fact that most companies use outsourced panels,
and the only reason Panasonic can use their own is because their parent company , matshuhita is about the biggest company
on the planel and a major producer of plasma screens.
TELL the truth now!:1:

And most companies that use outsourced panels cannot claim the consistently high reliability record that Pioneer, Samsung, and Panasonic have. :1:

[Worf101]

Okay, I remember seeing that pic before. You're moving the couch back, kewl. I can understand the wall swivel. You're one smart fellah so I know you'll "hook it up right". Ahm thanking though... You are smart so any consideration (even though you're a fruit/Mac lover) of going whole hog and building an HT/PC? I've been toying with the idea with AMD releasing soooo many cheap, video integrated mobo/chipsets and processors. Do you know of anyone that's gone that route? Do Mac's lend themselves to that kind of use? I love my Oppo and I can truly understand your reluctance to shell out for a new receiver at this time.

Thanks for sharing.

Da Worfster

PS Can't wait to the the "After" pictures.

[Rich-n-Texas]

And most companies that use outsourced panels cannot claim the consistently high reliability record that Pioneer, Samsung, and Panasonic have. :1:
One word:

Bingo!

[Woochifer]

Okay, I remember seeing that pic before. You're moving the couch back, kewl. I can understand the wall swivel. You're one smart fellah so I know you'll "hook it up right". Ahm thanking though... You are smart so any consideration (even though you're a fruit/Mac lover) of going whole hog and building an HT/PC? I've been toying with the idea with AMD releasing soooo many cheap, video integrated mobo/chipsets and processors. Do you know of anyone that's gone that route? Do Mac's lend themselves to that kind of use? I love my Oppo and I can truly understand your reluctance to shell out for a new receiver at this time.

Thanks for sharing.

Da Worfster

PS Can't wait to the the "After" pictures.

I've scavenged and rebuilt some of the Dells that my company uses in the office, but never built anything from the ground up myself.

Macs are great for video-related functions, though the hardware is not nearly as customizable unless you go with the Mac Pro.

The latest Macbooks use a new NVidia integrated graphics chipset that purportedly blows away anything currently available from Intel, and the Macbook Pro uses a motherboard that combines the integrated graphics chipset with a dedicated GPU. This combined approach supposedly creates a huge boost in graphics performance. I suspect that you'll start seeing this kind of combined integrated/dedicated GPU approach appear on DIY PC motherboards en masse very soon.

Also, the next revision to Mac OS X (due out next spring) will further boost performance by moving a lot of the workload from the CPU over to the GPU, which is underutilized most of the time.

For media center functions, I was thinking about going with a Mac Mini. A lot of home theater enthusiasts use the Mac Minis as music/video servers because it costs only $600, can actually run the full Mac OS X, and the unit itself is very small and easy to fit within an audio rack. But, while the Mac Mini can do HD video, it does not do Blu-ray.

I already know that I'll order the Oppo HDMI switch when I get around to adding the Blu-ray player. It's just a question of whether I'll add the DVD player ... oh, y'know to save on shipping charges! :cool:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir T enters the room, looks around and sees Wooch. He walks over and palms his head like a basketball, pulls him to the otherside of the room and says..."I can't believe it took you this dang long to make this move, wantsa matta wit ya ya putz!"

Congrats. Wife, baby, and a panel. Seems like you are doing good on the upgrades to me. :cornut:

[BadAssJazz]

Congratz on your new plasma.

I own two 42" Panny plasmas (although I've gifted one to my folks) and am contemplating my 3rd purchase (50" or more) this December, if all goes well. I'm sure there are better plasmas out there, but I've yet to see anything that beats the price/performance of a Panasonic.

Anyone know if Costco will have an after Thanksgiving day sale? With the economy bottoming out, I have a feeling that prices will drop like crazy.

[RoadRunner6]

When I bought my Panny several weeks ago at Costco, the salesperson said that if the price dropped within the 90 day return period, just return with the sales receipt and they would credit the difference.

This makes sense because you can return the unit within 90 days anyway and then could buy another one.

RR6

[Woochifer]

Sir T enters the room, looks around and sees Wooch. He walks over and palms his head like a basketball, pulls him to the otherside of the room and says..."I can't believe it took you this dang long to make this move, wantsa matta wit ya ya putz!"

Congrats. Wife, baby, and a panel. Seems like you are doing good on the upgrades to me. :cornut:

You're not the only that can't believe it took me this long! :cool:

It was definitely a long time in the offing, but it looks like I came in at a good time. The Pioneer Elites were at the top of my wish list for quite a while, but the baby and my wife going back to work only half time have a way of redistributing a budget! Since I thought that the Pannys were getting close to the Pioneers' picture quality anyway for about half the price, I was fine with the performance tradeoff.

Also, I was reluctant to pull the trigger when most of the channels I watched were still non-HD, the HD-DVD/Blu-ray format war was still raging, and 1080p plasmas were not yet available (I'd always preferred plasma, but also wanted to go 1080p).

Seems like the HD market has now settled in, and any HDTV choice consumers make nowadays don't come with a long laundry list of trade offs like before.

So far, I'm blown away by the image clarity on the HD channels I pull in with just a pair of rabbit ears. I'm getting spoiled, and hope that I don't see a huge dropoff with Directv's HD service.

[Woochifer]

Update!

The TV has been in place for just over a week now, and I'm still assessing the strengths (and weaknesses) of the Panny. Will have more details after I do a more detailed picture calibration. After fiddling around with the settings, I now primarily use the Cinema setting, with the color temperature set to Warm. The AVS Forum has several posters that also own the same Panny model, and I've tried their DVE calibrated settings, which improved the picture quality over the factory settings. With these rudimentary adjustments, the picture quality looks mighty impressive with HD -- a very natural looking and smooth image with decent sources.

This rest of this post though is more about the Directv HD service.

Taking the next step after the TV arrived, the upgraded Directv HD service and DVR are now activated. The box that got installed is Directv's new HR22 model. It's the same thing as the previous HR21, except with a larger capacity hard drive. While the HD definitely looks impressive, I was a bit surprised at how much SD programming still goes through the HD channels. This kinda points to why I waited so long to make the HD upgrade.

The highest native resolution that the HR22 can deliver with the satellite channels is 1080i, although a lot of channels choose to broadcast in 720p (in particular, the channels owned by News Corp/Fox, ABC/Disney, and A&E Networks). The most curious split was CBS, which televises in 1080i but broadcasts its CBS College Sports (formerly CSTV) channel in 720p. The A/B comparison of these channels sort of confirms my initial impression. The 720p feed delivers a slightly softer and less detailed image (at least on my TV) than 1080i, but when looking at fast moving action scenes, the 720p feed seems to maintain its resolution better. This is not a controlled viewing using different sources, so I have no idea what other variables might exist between CBS' network feed and their College Sports network.

Compared to the OTA broadcast, there is a slight loss of image clarity with Directv's HD feeds. This difference is more pronounced on the 1080i feeds. Comparing my local Fox affiliate's 720p OTA feed with the Directv feed, I did not notice much of a difference, while comparing the 1080i CBS and NBC feeds, the difference was more noticeable.

I read that even though the MPEG-4 codec that Directv (and Dish) uses is very efficient and requires a lower bandwidth to deliver a high quality picture, Directv still has to convert the original MPEG-2 HDTV broadcast in real time, and there's just no way to maintain 100% of the original signal integrity.

Directv's HD DVR receivers have had their fair share of problems and bad press. For one thing, Directv's original HD DVRs used the Tivo interface and their newer boxes' user interface is a big step down from Tivo. Generally, the Directv HD DVR interface seems dumbed down compared to other DVRs I've seen, and it doesn't have the "suggestion" feature that Tivo has.

My parents' LG plasma has a built-in DVR, and the interface on that unit is more flexible and intuitive than what Directv built into its HD DVRs. Kind of ironic, given that LG is one of the companies that Directv contracts with to design and build their DVR receivers.

But, as far as everyday operation of the HD DVR receiver, so far I've had no problems whatsoever. The firmware on the HR22 was updated during the installation, and so far it seems free from the random lockup, inconsistent DVR scheduling, and long lag time that was commonplace with the previous HR20 and HR21 models. Picture quality on the HD channels looks quite good, and I would add that the SD channels also look better than they did with my previous SD Directv receiver.

I also like that all of the channels can either output in their native resolution, or upconvert to 1080i or 720p. The latest firmware also allows for 1080p output, but Directv only plans to implement this with their PPV movies.

For now, the Directv HD DVR is my primary HD source (aside from the OTA antenna), and it has worked quite well so far. I do have some qualms with the user interface, but the performance so has been rock solid.

[Woochifer]

Yet another update! :cool:

The big project over the weekend was installing the TV onto that telescoping mount. Lots of drilling and heavy lifting, but the installation looks quite good and has surprising versatility. The TV can now telescope out from the wall, tilt, and swivel, and the mount can position the TV in just about any forward direction. I'll post pics when I get around to taking them! In the meantime, the picture below shows the dual-arm mount that I used.

http://webimages.chiefmfg.com/icLPFA2t_large.jpg

No in-depth calibrations yet because my DVD player does not have any HDMI outputs, and the analog video looks quite different from the digital picture.

Judging from what I've read and what I've tried for myself, the factory settings for the Cinema mode are already as close to optimal for digital video as the Panny's picture settings will allow. That's really the only picture mode that I use. The Vivid, and Game modes generally look unnatural, no matter what settings I use. I can tinker with the Normal settings to look decent, but the Cinema mode just looks way better for most sources.

Using the upconversion settings on the Directv box, make the SD programming look pretty good. Still not quite as good as CRT, but most of the channels I watch nowadays are HD. The only viewing that I have not yet optimized is DVDs -- still waiting on an upconverting player whether it's a PS3 or other player. :cool:

[pixelthis]

Most swingarm mounts are not rated for large tv sets.
I would make sure about that.:1:

[Worf101]

I appreciate all the information you're providing on Direct TV, broadcast resolutions and alike. Helps immensely while I plan my next conqu..... er move for my bedroom jammie. I, unlike others, never knew you were such a luddite!!!! But I can't say a word I got my first flat panel only 3 months before you.. LOL. Keep us apprised and send pics when you can...

Da Worfster

[kexodusc]

Wooch, with the downturn in the global economy, I'm glad to see you're doing your part to prop up the consumer electronics industry. So what's the master plan here?
Lemme guesss - after you finish configurating your new TV set you'll:

1) Upgrade to BluRay player /PS3 (PS3! PS3!)
2) New processor/amp or receiver
3) New speakers/subwoofer
4) Room acoustics

You going all out here or what?

Guess I'm only a wee bit ahead of you...we built a new home and moved in the end of August - part of the deal was I got to have a new HT room, a real one, with projector and all that. Got the PS3, but I'm still listening to BluRays in Dolby Digital and DTS. 640 kbps Dolby is something else, I believe Dolby now after all those years they've claimed their codec did more with less bitrate than DTS. They should have had 640k on DVD...but I digress.

BTW, my inlaws just bought a new 46" Panny Plasma that seems to be smaller version of yours. We're going to visit them in a few in a few weeks - I promised to bring DVE and fix it up for them - according to my mother-in-law, standard-def cable broadcasts were almost unwatchable because of the high colour and brightness settings. I told her to put it to Cinema - it was on Vivid...we saw the 46" at Futureshop with the settings on Vivid...yikes. I could see why she was having problems. They have a lot of daylight in their room and she finds Cinema a bit too dark during broad daylight hours, so I might have to make a custom setting. Any idea if you can save settings for each of the modes, or if there's more than 1 saveable custom setting available?

One feature on that set that I didn't know TV's came with is the media card readers...hers accepts their SD cards and they've been having a ball watching picture slide shows. They're photo-nuts. That's a great feature, especially for seniors who take a lot of pics.
I'm looking forward to playing with their new toy now...visiting won't be as bad now.

[Woochifer]

I appreciate all the information you're providing on Direct TV, broadcast resolutions and alike. Helps immensely while I plan my next conqu..... er move for my bedroom jammie. I, unlike others, never knew you were such a luddite!!!! But I can't say a word I got my first flat panel only 3 months before you.. LOL. Keep us apprised and send pics when you can...

Da Worfster

Luddite?! :P

For me, shopping for a HDTV over the years was a frustrating process because each choice had a major drawback, and my wife insisted on a flat panel. I waited until now because I wanted to wait until the 120 Hz/LED-backlit LCDs and 1080p plasmas came out before making a choice. And it wasn't until late last year that most of my favorite channels went HD. With Directv, their 1st and 2nd generation HD DVRs also had major problems. I guess I preferred to let the early adopters work out the kinks before I make my move! :cornut:


Wooch, with the downturn in the global economy, I'm glad to see you're doing your part to prop up the consumer electronics industry. So what's the master plan here?
Lemme guesss - after you finish configurating your new TV set you'll:

1) Upgrade to BluRay player /PS3 (PS3! PS3!)
2) New processor/amp or receiver
3) New speakers/subwoofer
4) Room acoustics

You going all out here or what?

You are correct on #1. I've asked for the PS3 as a combined b-day/Christmas present from my wife, so that will arrive soon. :cool:

The processor/receiver will wait, and it might be a long wait because I decided to order an Oppo HDMI switch to handle the video switching rather than shell out for a new receiver right now. Since my Yammie can decode the 640k DD tracks that come with most BDs, I figure I'll get a sound quality upgrade regardless.

Room treatments might also need to wait since my increasingly mobile little girl has recently discovered the joys of MAGIC MARKERS (though she only has access to the washable kind)! :eek: We're reassessing what can and cannot go on the walls.


Guess I'm only a wee bit ahead of you...we built a new home and moved in the end of August - part of the deal was I got to have a new HT room, a real one, with projector and all that. Got the PS3, but I'm still listening to BluRays in Dolby Digital and DTS. 640 kbps Dolby is something else, I believe Dolby now after all those years they've claimed their codec did more with less bitrate than DTS. They should have had 640k on DVD...but I digress.

Congrats on the new room! :cool: I've always heard about how much better the DD audio sounded with Laserdiscs (which also used the 640k bitrate), so I'm looking forward to the Blu-ray upgrade, which will take my audio experience back to 1994!


BTW, my inlaws just bought a new 46" Panny Plasma that seems to be smaller version of yours. We're going to visit them in a few in a few weeks - I promised to bring DVE and fix it up for them - according to my mother-in-law, standard-def cable broadcasts were almost unwatchable because of the high colour and brightness settings. I told her to put it to Cinema - it was on Vivid...we saw the 46" at Futureshop with the settings on Vivid...yikes. I could see why she was having problems. They have a lot of daylight in their room and she finds Cinema a bit too dark during broad daylight hours, so I might have to make a custom setting. Any idea if you can save settings for each of the modes, or if there's more than 1 saveable custom setting available?

Yep, standard def analog cable definitely looks the worst on my TV. Might want to check and make sure that their channel setup includes digital channels. We have barebones basic cable just for local channels (it's a lot cheaper than paying for extra satellite receivers in the other rooms throughout the house), and it actually pipes in all of the local DTV feeds. I don't know anything about Canada's situation with DTV transition, but you should rerun the channel setup/search on your parents' TV and see if it picks up the digital channels.

BTW, I get CBC's Hockey Night in Canada HD feed as part of the NHL Network, and that is some of the most stunning HD sports production quality that I've seen.

The settings for each picture mode are saved separately. I'd also read that some Pannys can also save different settings for each input, but that doesn't seem to be the case with my TV. I wanted to save separate sets of settings using the Cinema mode for the HDMI input and the analog video inputs (since I use those for DVD playback), but my TV doesn't allow for that.

The Cinema mode's gamma and grayscale are closer to reference than any of the other modes, but it also gives you the least amount of flexibility with bumping up the brightness and picture levels. I've observed that once you get beyond the +60 settings for picture and brightness levels, the image doesn't really change that much. On your parents' TV, you could also try changing the color temperature to see if they perceive that as "brightening" the picture. The consensus on the newer Panny plasmas is that the "Warm" color temperature along with the Cinema mode gives the most natural picture quality on most sources, while some people prefer the "Neutral" color temperature with video sources.

It could also be what your parents are used to seeing. My parents got so used to watching washed out pictures on their old TV that they crank up the picture and brightness levels on their plasma with SD programming.


One feature on that set that I didn't know TV's came with is the media card readers...hers accepts their SD cards and they've been having a ball watching picture slide shows. They're photo-nuts. That's a great feature, especially for seniors who take a lot of pics.

Might also want to check if their TV can play video clips as well. The SD card reader is also how Panny updates their TVs' firmware. I thought that the media card readers were fairly commonplace, and if anything, manufacturers have cut back on the compatibility with other formats. My parents' three-year old LG can read 7 different media card formats (and yes, they love watching slide shows of their granddaughter on the TV). Then again, that LG cost close to $5,000 and has a much fancier set of picture adjustment, media viewing, and DVR features (along with a piano black finish) than my Panny which is downright spartan by comparison.


Most swingarm mounts are not rated for large tv sets.
I would make sure about that.

The mount I'm using is a dual-arm design, and rated for up to 55" and 125 lbs.

[L.J.]

You are correct on #1. I've asked for the PS3 as a combined b-day/Christmas present from my wife, so that will arrive soon. :cool:

Welcome to the club brotha! If you eventually feel like getting spanked at some online gaming, drop your PSN ID in the PS3 gaming thread :D

I agree with Kex on the 640 DD & 1.5 DTS. I went 9 months before upgrading my AVR and the wait wasn't hard at all. I noticed an immediate improvement in sound. Both sound great and will easily hold you over til you go with a new AVR.

[pixelthis]

Welcome to the club brotha! If you eventually feel like getting spanked at some online gaming, drop your PSN ID in the PS3 gaming thread :D

I agree with Kex on the 640 DD & 1.5 DTS. I went 9 months before upgrading my AVR and the wait wasn't hard at all. I noticed an immediate improvement in sound. Both sound great and will easily hold you over til you go with a new AVR.


They are good, but lossless has them beat.:1:

[Woochifer]

Happy B-day/early Christmas to me! The PS3 has arrived! :cool:

BLU-RAY IMPRESSIONS
The system came with a demo Blu-ray disc, and my first BD purchase was the five-disc edition of Blade Runner (fortunately, even though it was at the top of my wish list, I never bought it on DVD because the five-disc set in that format was only available with an expensive suitcase package). First impression - wow!

I've seen Blade Runner numerous times in theaters including 70mm screenings, and seeing it in this 1080p transfer is a revelation. The image was crystal clear, yet the transfer kept the film grain intact, retaining the organic look that a good film print has. This kind of natural image quality is precisely why I opted for plasma over LCD. The five-disc set has all four versions of the movie, including the rare workprint version which I saw at the theater back in 1991 and up until now has never been released on home video. The new "final cut" version is the only one I haven't seen yet.

Concurring with L.J. and kex, the 640k DD soundtracks on the Blade Runner BD and the trailers on the Blu-ray demo disc sound very good. The 640k tracks seem free from the bloat and less precise imaging that accompanies a lot of lower resolution DD tracks. Even though I don't have a HDMI receiver or support for the lossless and uncompressed PCM tracks, the 640k DD tracks are already an improvement over what I hear from most of my DVDs, and they work with my 7-year old receiver.

DVD PERFORMANCE
Earlier in the thread, I voiced concerns over the PS3's purportedly inferior performance with DVDs. Well, after installing the PS3 and trying out a few DVDs, it looks quite good to me. The latest firmware on the PS3 has a more picture adjustments and upscaling options than the PS3s that fared so poorly on the Secrets site's benchmark tests (their tests were performed on the 1st generation players and the firmware version 1.8 from February -- the current version is 2.52).

Even without the noise reduction settings that Terrence recommended, I thought that the image quality on the DVD playback was a big improvement over my old DVD player (which lacks upscaling and digital video output). With the noise reduction filters on, some aspects of the image definitely improved, but it also really softened up the picture quite a bit, which makes the DVD's lower resolution more obvious. There are other options that I've been trying out. Overall, the PS3's a surprisingly flexible and full featured video player.

The PS3 is now my primary DVD player. I can see how somebody upgrading to a large screen TV would think that upconverted DVD playback would be "good enough." But, there's still no comparison with true HD resolution, and the Blu-ray image quality is definitely superior to the HD images from broadcast and satellite channels.

OTHER GOODIES
I also setup my Playstation Network ID (my handle is Woochifer), for VOD purchases and online gaming. Oh yeah, gaming! Unfortunately, the newer PS3s are completely incompatible with PS2 games, so I still need to keep the PS2 installed on my system. So far, I have yet to purchase a PS3 game, and I'm not sure when I'll start. Right now, I'd rather stock up on Blu-rays than sink $60 into a PS3 game.

The PS3 linked to my wireless network with no problem. I have not yet enabled the media center features on the PS3 because I need to install the Medialink application on my iMac. Medialink will enable the iMac to function as a media server for my audio, video, and photo files, and sync with my iTunes playlists and coverflow images.

WHAT'S NEXT?
Because I won't be buying a new receiver for a while, I will install an Oppo HDMI switch to select between different sources. Until then, I'm stuck with manually unplugging the HDMI cable whenever I want to switch between the HD DVR and the PS3. :mad2: That will probably be the second-to-last hardware purchase for this round of upgrades. The rest of it is just optimizing the feature and getting everything to work together.

The last hardware purchase for this round might be an ethernet bridge to enable the on-demand feature on my Directv HD DVR, which only uses a wired internet connection. I haven't decided if I want to go wireless or PowerLine. But, with all the unwatched programming that has already piled up on my DVR, I'm not sure if I want even more TV viewing options.

Now that I can play DVDs over the HDMI connection, I will finally do a calibration on the TV.

I also need to do a lot of work reorganizing the cables in the back of the audio rack. Right now, I have it pulled back from the wall with the back panel removed. Doubtful that my wife will tolerate this much longer! :14:

Wall-E comes out this week, so I'll look forward to that.

Otherwise, I think this round of upgrades is just about over. Stay tuned!

[L.J.]

Great choice Wooch!! The PS3 has been one of the best purchases I've made for HT. I get so much use out of it beyond just playing movies.

Check out the PSN store for games starting at $2.99. Here a list (http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=260373&postcount=406) of the PSN games I own and my thoughts on them.

Also check out the PS3 Greatest Hits going for $30(most of these were on sale @ Amazon for 19.99 a couple of days ago):
* Warhawk
* MotorStorm
* Resistance: Fall of Man
* Call of Duty 3
* Need for Speed Carbon
* The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
* Ninja Gaiden Sigma
* Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
* Assassin's Creed

[kexodusc]

Woo hoo...another new toy for Wooch. Good choice, you won't regret it. I'm really happy with my PS3, I'm sure you will be too. It really is so much more than a gaming console. Sony out did itself here. And yeah, for whatever benchmark tests it fails with DVD, I'm guessing they don't occur to often in real world scenarios or have since been remedied by the firmware updates because DVD's look better than they did on my old player too.


Also check out the PS3 Greatest Hits going for $30(most of these were on sale @ Amazon for 19.99 a couple of days ago):
* Warhawk
* MotorStorm
* Resistance: Fall of Man
* Call of Duty 3
* Need for Speed Carbon
* The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
* Ninja Gaiden Sigma
* Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
* Assassin's Creed

You can find most of these 2nd hand for even cheaper too...we're trying to get an ar.com online game thingy going - we've got our ID's and stuff posted - feel free offer your input:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28646

A few of us have already ordered Resistance...I've put 7-8 hours on it and it is a lot of fun if you like shooters. Great story, not too easy or hard...good online multiplay features etc...I'd recommend it.

I also just picked Socom:Confrontation which came with the Bluetooth headset. Because it was on sale it was actually cheaper to get the game than the standalone headset. Go figure.

[Woochifer]

HT 2.0 is just about done!

The Oppo HM-31 HDMI switch arrived yesterday, and I also installed the Medialink app that enables my iMac to function as a media server for the PS3.

OPPO HM-31 HDMI SWITCH
I use the Oppo to switch between the HD DVR and the PS3. So far, it has worked flawlessly with no signal integrity issues on 720p, 1080i, and 1080p sources. The HM-31's auto switching feature allows you to prioritize the HDMI sources -- when one gets powered down, the switch automatically goes to the next source. This means that I will rarely if ever need to use the remote to manually switch between HDMI sources. It's certified for HDMI 1.3, and includes a serial port and a plug for an external IR sensor (handy for automation applications and installed options).

PS3 AS A MEDIA CENTER
The PS3 media center functionality has had a few more glitches. Because I didn't feel like entering a bunch of UNIX terminal commands to connect my iMac to the PS3 as a media server, I downloaded Nullriver's Medialink app. Once the app got installed and I activated the UPnP function on my router, the PS3 instantly recognized the iMac as a media server. I found the music and photo directories, as well as my iTunes playlists. I started selecting songs and playlists, and it all played just fine with my receiver reading the bitstream as a PCM format.

Sound quality was pretty good, and it was fun scrolling through the hundreds of albums that I've already ripped using my main system rather than just while sitting at my computer. The PS3 user interface is logical and easy to navigate, but it doesn't have anything equal to the cover flow view that iTunes and the new iPods use. And I haven't found anything like an alphabetical search so that I don't have to constantly scroll through hundreds of artist names everytime I want to play somebody at the other end of the alphabet!

Where things got a bit dicier was when I started scrolling through my music and photo libraries. Everything works fine until I scroll through the lists really fast, then the PS3 starts giving me DLNA error and network error warnings. Most of the time, I was still able to play music and view photos with no problem. But, a couple of times now, the network error has terminated the connection altogether, and I haven't been able to restore that connectivity without restarting the PS3.

I'm not sure if this is an issue with my wireless router, the PS3, or the iMac, but I'm wondering if this problem will go away by using a PowerLine ethernet connection instead of wireless to connect to the iMac. Looking at the PS3 boards, it seems that this issue began cropping up when firmware v.2.2 first appeared, so it might be a firmware-related problem. But, I do wonder about the other potential sources, since my Netgear router has occasionally terminated the wireless connection when copying large files.

Anyway, things are starting to settle down, and I will probably reinstall the back panel on my audio rack and take some pics of the setup either this weekend or next week. :cool:

[GMichael]

Isn't it time for you to pick up a game or two?:ihih:

A PS3 is for playing games you know.:yesnod:

[Woochifer]

Isn't it time for you to pick up a game or two?:ihih:

A PS3 is for playing games you know.:yesnod:

Games, y'mean the PS3 can do that too? :cool:

GM, L.J., kex -

Man, talk about a full court press! :biggrin5:

Yes, I fully intend to get into this online gaming thing ... soon! There's one Wooch to go around, and only 24 hours in a day! This PS3 is a veritable Pandora's box with the endless functions that are built into it (protein folding?! Linux?!). And so far I haven't even come close to exploring the gaming capabilities, given that I'm still picking my jaw off the floor from the incredible Blu-ray playback and trying to troubleshoot the networking errors I'm getting with the media center!

I will definitely need to check out the recommended list of games posted by L.J. and kex, and I see that you all have already begun taking things out of the steel cage and onto the PS3 network. I guess I can always cut sleep out of my daily routine, being alert and coherent is overrated anyway ... :13:

[kexodusc]

Games, y'mean the PS3 can do that too? :cool:

GM, L.J., kex -

Man, talk about a full court press! :biggrin5:

Yes, I fully intend to get into this online gaming thing ... soon! There's one Wooch to go around, and only 24 hours in a day! This PS3 is a veritable Pandora's box with the endless functions that are built into it (protein folding?! Linux?!). And so far I haven't even come close to exploring the gaming capabilities, given that I'm still picking my jaw off the floor from the incredible Blu-ray playback and trying to troubleshoot the networking errors I'm getting with the media center!

I will definitely need to check out the recommended list of games posted by L.J. and kex, and I see that you all have already begun taking things out of the steel cage and onto the PS3 network. I guess I can always cut sleep out of my daily routine, being alert and coherent is overrated anyway ... :13:

If you aren't somewhat familiar with Unix and, probably moreso Linux terminal commands, or don't have any pressing need for a computer in your HT, I'd bypass the Linux capability. The PS3 isn't the first machine I'd try learning Linux on.

I installed it on mine just to see if I could. It works well enough - actually, surpringly well. Kudos to Sony. On the downside, developers are still trying figure out Sony's application of the cell processor and it's multiple cores, so speed isn't up to full potential yet with most distros, but it's not bad for most computing functions (haven't tried ripping hard media yet from CD or DVD's)
It's low on RAM so some other creative architecture is required - I think the Yellow Dog distro with Sony's backing makes full use of the 7 or 8 cores, some of the other distros only use a few.
Still, what seemed like a really cool idea at first I have to admit isn't that big a deal to me now. I don't download or stream a lot of video, and when I do I can connect my Macbook or wife's laptop to my projector anyway if so desired. Surfing the net is kinda fun, and it's handy to have. But I don't use it much. I give Sony full props for opening the doors to Linux, but I think for most people it's a novelty. If you didn't have another computer, the PS3 would be a godsend, but honestly, I'd rather watch DVDs, BluRays and shoot LJ than check my email.

When you're ready to get shot in the head let us know - If you're like me and don't have as much time in the week devote to mastering a video game, and don't know many others with a PS3, it's cool to know a few people equally as bad at gaming as you are to play with online so you don't completely embarass yourself. More fun that way.

[GMichael]

If you aren't somewhat familiar with Unix and, probably moreso Linux terminal commands, or don't have any pressing need for a computer in your HT, I'd bypass the Linux capability. The PS3 isn't the first machine I'd try learning Linux on.

I installed it on mine just to see if I could. It works well enough - actually, surpringly well. Kudos to Sony. On the downside, developers are still trying figure out Sony's application of the cell processor and it's multiple cores, so speed isn't up to full potential yet with most distros, but it's not bad for most computing functions (haven't tried ripping hard media yet from CD or DVD's)
It's low on RAM so some other creative architecture is required - I think the Yellow Dog distro with Sony's backing makes full use of the 7 or 8 cores, some of the other distros only use a few.
Still, what seemed like a really cool idea at first I have to admit isn't that big a deal to me now. I don't download or stream a lot of video, and when I do I can connect my Macbook or wife's laptop to my projector anyway if so desired. Surfing the net is kinda fun, and it's handy to have. But I don't use it much. I give Sony full props for opening the doors to Linux, but I think for most people it's a novelty. If you didn't have another computer, the PS3 would be a godsend, but honestly, I'd rather watch DVDs, BluRays and shoot LJ than check my email.

When you're ready to get shot in the head let us know - If you're like me and don't have as much time in the week devote to mastering a video game, and don't know many others with a PS3, it's cool to know a few people equally as bad at gaming as you are to play with online so you don't completely embarass yourself. More fun that way.

HEY! I resemble that.:incazzato:

[robb01]

Grats on the purchase

[Woochifer]

Quick update ...

With the Directv HR22 receiver, I noticed I was getting some motion artifacts (these are the jagged smears that look like stripes running across an image) with the receiver set to upconvert the output for SD channels to 720p (the 1080p option is enabled only for PPV movies). For comparison, I switched the settings on the Directv receiver to allow for 480i output on SD sources, which is the native resolution.

I was surprised that the motion artifacts disappeared and everything looked much smoother when I let the HDTV handle the deinterlacing and upscaling. Very clearly, there's a big difference in the quality of the scaler built into the TV, compared to the one that Directv's using in their HD DVR.

I've already noted how much better the PS3 handles DVD playback than my old Denon DVD player (which lacks HDMI and progressive scan). Now I'm curious to see how my TV's deinterlacing and scaling of native 480i sources compares to the PS3, but I've yet to find the option that switches off the deinterlacing.

It's interesting how quickly everything has changed in just a few years. I have Robert Harley's Home Theater For Everyone book from 2002, and just for fun I flipped through the display section the other day. Just about all of the info in that section is now outdated. Aside from the heavy coverage of CRT TVs and RPTVs, Harley also recommended that consumers primarily use their video sources for deinterlacing and upscaling, because the video processing circuits in TVs at that time were decidedly inferior. The experience with my TV indicates that's clearly no longer the case.

[f0rge]

congrats on the new TV, i've had my 50PZ77U for a year now and cant say enough good things


congrats!

is that a grand prix in your avatar? i have 2 :D

[Woochifer]

I guess if someone's going to play the role of necromancer on this thread, it might as well be me! :cool:

With the addition of the Denon universal player a couple of weeks ago, I'm now ready to declare my Home Theater 2.0 project complete and no longer a work in progress. I now have my entire video chain (except for the VCR) upgraded to HD and routed to the TV using HDMI connections, and I now have full support for SACD and DVD-A. A receiver with HDMI switching and full support for the lossless audio formats would be nice, but that's a lot of coin that I'm in no position to part with right now.

In the meantime, I have updated the picture of my setup in the photo gallery. Here's the long overdue picture of my upgraded setup.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=5156&cat=500&ppuser=165819

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/Theater2.jpg

[kexodusc]

I miss the baker's rack...gave the room a college-y feel...

[L.J.]

Looking good man! That flat panel made a huge difference.

I gotta get off my lazy butt and get some pics up as well :idea:

[Woochifer]

I miss the baker's rack...gave the room a college-y feel...

:lol:

Man, you're dialing the wayback machine on full throttle! I'd totally forgotten that I posted a pic of that pre-1.0 setup. I'll have to dig it up and post it on the gallery.

And yes, I miss that baker's rack as well (which is now sitting in the kitchen). That rack was totally open and had wheels. Made wiring and removing components easy.

Having an enclosed audio rack is much more of a pain when the upgrade bug bites. In fact, I haven't even replaced the back panel on the audio rack since I began the video upgrades back in October. And if you look closely I still have the furniture gliders that I "temporarily" placed underneath the audio rack so I could move the unit away from the wall and access the back!


Looking good man! That flat panel made a huge difference.

I gotta get off my lazy butt and get some pics up as well

Thanks L.J. Y'mean MORE pics?! :wow: I still recall that bunch that you posted when you did the acoustical upgrades. Or are those pics now outdated?

[Auricauricle]

Now, that's what I call a Man Room!! A little late, here, but congrats and kudos to you, Wooch. That Count Basie poster adds the right touch!

[Woochifer]

Now that I look back on how this system came together, it's interesting that my 2.0 upgrade was done pretty much all at once. A far cry from the years that my 1.0 setup took to finish up. Maybe I'm getting impatient at my old age? :14:

The Road to Home Theater 1.0 (est. 2001)
components already in place and carried over:
- 32" TV
- RCA satellite receiver
- JVC VCR
- Dual turntable
- Philips CD changer

2001
- added Denon DVD player
- added Yamaha 5.1 receiver
- added Paradigm Studio 40s
- added Premier stands
- added SPL meter and test discs
- moved hand-me-down Bose 301s to surround position

2002
- added Paradigm Studio CC center speaker
- added acoustical panels
- added Playstation 2

2003
- moved system to current room
- added Adire Rava subwoofer
- added Behringer Feedback Destroyer
- added Paradigm Studio 20s
- added Sound Anchor stands
- subtracted Bose 301s

2004
- added Salamander audio rack
- declared Home Theater 1.0 complete
- added Philips satellite receiver
- removed failed RCA satellite receiver

2005
- added SACD changer
- subtracted Philips CD changer
- added JVC VCR
- subtracted failed JVC VCR

2006
- no activity

2007
- added second Salamander audio rack

2008
- moved furniture back to give baby more room to play, so we "needed" a bigger TV :cool:
- began Home Theater 2.0
- added Panasonic HDTV
- subtracted Mitsubishi TV
- added Directv HD-DVR satellite receiver
- removed Philips satellite receiver
- added Playstation 3
- added TV swing mount
- added HDMI switch

2009
- moved Denon DVD player
- added Denon universal player
- declared Home Theater 2.0 complete

[Woochifer]

Now, that's what I call a Man Room!! A little late, here, but congrats and kudos to you, Wooch. That Count Basie poster adds the right touch!

That's what my wife calls it too ... and she doesn't mean it in a good way! :cool:

Considering that I brought this corpse of a thread back to life only last night, you're actually early!

Also have the famous Art Kane "Jazz Portrait Harlem 1958" print hanging in a different room. Just about the most amazing collection of musical talent ever captured in a single image, many of whom you would know just by the first names -- Duke, Count, Dizzy, Thelonious, Coleman, Sonny, Horace. (see below)

http://www.harlem.org/

http://www.harlem.org/images/mainimage.jpg

[Worf101]

"Man's Room" indeed!!!! Now that's a place I could hang in smoke a cigar and watch some real carnage... well mebbe ditch the ceegar as I don't want you eviscerated by the spouse. Love that hook up bro!!!!

Da Worfster

[L.J.]

Thanks L.J. Y'mean MORE pics?! :wow: I still recall that bunch that you posted when you did the acoustical upgrades. Or are those pics now outdated?

My main system hasn't changed much. I added some blackout curtains, emotiva amp & few small changes.

My 2nd system got a major make over though. I sold my huge wall unit I got from Costco & moved my 56" JVC into the garage. The room got a fool makeover and I spend more time listening to music in there. The fully stocked bar helps a lil too :biggrin5: Right now it's music only but I plan on adding a small flat panel eventually.

You moved your couch & surrounds back a bit?

[Woochifer]

I miss the baker's rack...gave the room a college-y feel...

Ahhhhh!!! Memories ...

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/medium/Theater1.jpg


"Man's Room" indeed!!!! Now that's a place I could hang in smoke a cigar and watch some real carnage... well mebbe ditch the ceegar as I don't want you eviscerated by the spouse. Love that hook up bro!!!!

Da Worfster

Thanx Worf. Romulan Ale and the cigars are out, so a good scotch will have to do (my wife would gladly join in that venture). :cool:


My main system hasn't changed much. I added some blackout curtains, emotiva amp & few small changes.

My 2nd system got a major make over though. I sold my huge wall unit I got from Costco & moved my 56" JVC into the garage. The room got a fool makeover and I spend more time listening to music in there. The fully stocked bar helps a lil too Right now it's music only but I plan on adding a small flat panel eventually.

A full bar - now, THAT'S a man cave! Actually, any room with a non-WAF approved TV would also qualify! :cornut:


You moved your couch & surrounds back a bit?

Yeah, we used to have a pathway behind the sofa, but the space was a bit tight for a jumper, playpen, and baby toys. The TV used to be about 6' from the sofa, now it's somewhere between 9' and 10' away, depending on whether my wife shoves the sofa against the wall or I pull it out about a foot away from the wall! :ihih: So, you see why we "had to" get a new TV, right?

You can see from the pic that the mains are now wider apart, but the surrounds are unfortunately closer, so the delay timing is more essential than ever. And the delay function is one of the weak points on that Denon universal player.

[Woochifer]

With the board seemingly infested with a zombie invasion with long dormant threads getting revived from the dead, I figure I'll join in the necromancy parade! :prrr:

But, I actually have something exciting to add -- my first HT addition since 2008! :cool: Yeah, I've now joined the pack and hit the big time! My HT setup is now just a short step away from going totally balls out nucular! Mortals and neighbors alike be warned! :yikes:

I am now the proud owner of ....









a universal remote!!!!! :hand:

http://www.logitech.com/assets/26419/26419.png

Yep, I've been doing the seven-remote juggle for the last 3 years, and actually got pretty good at it when babysitting my daughter. But, Black Friday at Best Buy put all that to an end when I got my hands on one of the $40 Harmony 650s.

I tried to score one of those remotes last year, but BB was sold out of them by the time I arrived at the store towards the end of Black Friday. This time, I actually went there in the middle of the night to pick up some cheap Blu-ray movies for $8 and $11, and see if they had any of the Harmony remotes left. I initially thought they were sold out again because the rack with all the remotes was empty, but then I saw a crate stack sitting on the floor nearby. Lo and behold, the crate was unmarked and full of the Harmony remotes in the Black Friday ad! So, that was my big splurge for myself this year.

First Impressions
I'd read a few reviews of the Harmony remotes, and they seem like solid options. The only issue is that they require a PC to configure, and even though I have a laptop, that is definitely a pain. In many ways it's much easier than the old "learning" remote method of pointing the remotes at each other and programming each button at a time. But, it's not quite as convenient when the buttons are programmed and there might be one or two functions that I want to add or switch around.

The last time I shopped for remotes was right after my HT 1.0 was finished (and the AR regulars howled in their disbelief over Wooch's table full of remotes!). Back then, I was looking over the Home Theater Master MX-500, which was considered a bargain at $189. Then, my wife insisted on getting the media rack instead, and I haven't really been in the market for a universal remote since then.

http://media.gdgt.com/img/product/13/a4a/universal-remote-control-mx-500-kpv-460.jpg

The Harmony remote works differently than that MX-500, which has macro capability, but primarily aimed at replicating the functionality of the OEM remotes. The Harmony 650 will replicate the OEM remote's functions, but it also organizes functions into "activities" that combine controls over different devices.

I already had some practice with my Directv remote, which similarly reserved some of the functions for the TV, and others for the satellite receiver. But, the Harmony does this for multiple devices at the same time. I'm very impressed with how logically they mapped out the functions.

The Harmony is not without its quirks. Unlike a true learning remote, the Harmony will not assign a non-standard command to a specific device. I tried to "teach" the remote to switch HDMI sources on my Oppo HM-31 (which I use because I don't have a HDMI-enabled receiver), but it would not accept the command because that function was not in the database for those devices. The Oppo HM-31 is in the Harmony database, but the remote would not let me assign that command to any other device or process the raw IR data. Since the Harmony 650 has a 5 device limit, I did not have any slots left for the Oppo switch.

So, basically the Harmony 650 has replaced 5 of my remotes. I still use two other remotes, one for the PS3 (which is Bluebooth) and the other for the HDMI switch (but since it's an auto-sensing switch, I rarely use it). Needless to say, it's a nice little upgrade for $40.

[kexodusc]

It works better if you put it on isolation pads.

Congrats on the new purchase. I love my Harmony remote, definitely an overlooked accessory to many systems out there.

[L.J.]

Yes, very good upgrade. I've been spoiled the past 5 years or so. Couldn't imagine going back to the 5 remote lineup. Now just make sure your kid doesn't drop yours in a cup of water like my son did with my old 880 a week after I got it :cryin:

Thing still works BTW...using it in the garage

[Woochifer]

It works better if you put it on isolation pads.

Congrats on the new purchase. I love my Harmony remote, definitely an overlooked accessory to many systems out there.

I'll settle for keeping it high, so my daughter doesn't play with it (she's already fascinated with the display that magically turns on when you pick the remote up). I've had the universal remote on the to-do list for years, but it always wound up taking a backseat to other purchases. A $40 Black Friday price eliminated any budgetary concerns, although I was also surprised to see how far the prices on the Harmony One (which used to sell for $300) and other decent universal remotes have fallen. I'm still trying to get around to the idea of not having to pay $200 for a decent universal remote. The Harmony 650 has its limits, but for what I paid, I'm not complaining.


Yes, very good upgrade. I've been spoiled the past 5 years or so. Couldn't imagine going back to the 5 remote lineup. Now just make sure your kid doesn't drop yours in a cup of water like my son did with my old 880 a week after I got it

Thing still works BTW...using it in the garage

Yeah, now that I'm actually using a Harmony remote, I can now see what you guys have been talking about all these years. Definitely cuts a few steps out of my HT enjoyment, and now I no longer have to worry about the buttons wearing down on my older remotes.

And I can see how water and remotes don't mix well. My daughter has a habit of grabbing stuff in front of her. I don't think I have to worry about her giving the remote a bath -- just finding it after she buries it in one of her toy boxes!