Another bit of bad news for Talkys BDA buddies

[pixelthis]

Who, according to sir talky, want to keep the price of Blu players
up there.
On QVC tonite there was am offer of a sharp aquios
BLURAY player.
This isn't Funai or Cyberhome crap, its sharp.
Price?
248$
BUT WAIT, it gets better(as if it could)
You also get the new edition of Sleeping Beauty!!
BUT WAIT , IT GETS EVEN BETTER
A shiny spankin new HDMI CABLE!!
Now some on this board don't want to figure the cost of "extras" in the price of something, but I do, so this has the price of a "name" Blu player BELOW 200 BUCKS!!
It also has a "fast load" feature BTW.
I told talky that you couldnt control the free market, that Blu players would be under 150 bucks by next year, looks like I was conservative.
AND if the Christmas season is the bloodbath they are predicting ,
its Blu players under 150 bucks by January
Amazing, simply amazing.
This makes the purchase of something like a 300 buck DVD player
even more problmatic.
Not to mention STOOPID:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Sharp is one rung up the ladder from Goldstar.

[bobsticks]

Sharp is one rung up the ladder from Goldstar.

Don't know about all that, some of the upper line Aquoa LCD's are mighty fine. I will grant that there are some disparities over the product lines.

I recognise that Pix is just given T the ol' wind-up but I think it's fair to say, and still valid to say, that the BDA wants to keep the prices up. It's just not practical at this point.

A quote from a different thread:


I'm afraid to look at my 401K. It'll bounce back long before I can access it (time to buy right now so hopefully my fund managers know what they're doing). My parents are 61 and lost $250,000 in two days! Now they say they'll wait until they're 70 to retire (they tend to panic). Their nextdoor neighbor lost $400,000. I'm just glad I locked in my financing for my new car when I did. I was pre-approved in the mid-fours and now it's over 6% for people like me with 800+ credit scores.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot of folks that aren't even considering a three or five or twelve hundred dollar "movie contraption" at this point, Christmas or no.

It's a case of situational marketing.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm sure the HDMI cable was a very cheap one, as there is no difference any way and Sleeping Beauty I don't believe is much above $20.00, if that. So I don't believe the Sharp deal is under $200.00. Also, when debating a sub $200.00 machine it needs to be clarified if we are talking regular price or including "close outs" that normally go for less than their original price.

If we are talking "close outs" the Sony s300 can be had for under $200.00 but in comparison to newer players a person should spend the extra $100.00 for the Panasonic DMP-35 or newer Sony. If all you have is TV and don't care about HT the s300 would be a good price to jump in at. I don't know how the Sharp stacks up to any of these. Historically their products have been less than stellar until the Aquos LCD's. The same can be said for Toshiba and Samsung though with their respective TV technology. I'm happy with my BD-P1200 once all the firmware was updated. I guess time will tell.

[blackraven]

Prices will be down on every thing by christmas. Company's will be wanting to move as much inventory as possible because sales are down. Just look at new cars. Sales are way down and now Toyota and GM are offering 0% financing.

I expect that we will see several sub $200 BRP's by Christmas.

[L.J.]

Samsung BD-P1500 is going for $215 at Amazon with free copy of the Matrix Ultimate Collection(which sales for about $75). Not a bad deal. Too bad it doesn't support 5.1 analog out but it does bitstream everthing.

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BD-P1500-1080p-Blu-ray-Player/dp/B0014H16V0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1223924485&sr=1-2&tag=blurayforum-20

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

As usual Pixy can't read, and can't hold his wad(old man complex). I never said prices were NOT coming down, I said they are not going to take losses on players just to sell them and gain market share. Sharp is releasing a new player in a few months, and they are moving stock on the old stuff. There is a cycle here(pixy, I know it is hard, but pay attention brightness). A player is released at manufactured suggested price. It get's to market and sells. The manufacturer plans on releasing another player, so they discount the old player to make room on the shelves for new players, and to reduce inventory. This is how you are going to see price reductions. You are not going to see bluray prices at the level of DVD prices anytime soon. If you remember last year, bluray player prices dropped for christmas, and afterwards returned to full price. You are going to see that again this year.

In spite of what is going on in the economy right now, bluray players are still flying off the shelves. During the 2001-2003 downturn, there were more DVD players sold than in all of the previous years combined.

Pixie, brighten up man(and mature up as well) are you really that stupid to believe its bad news for the BDA when a player sells, and they make a profit? Use what functioning part of the brain you have!

[Mr Peabody]

LJ, that is a sweet deal, probably the best overall I've seen so far.

[RoadRunner6]

Sharp is one rung up the ladder from Goldstar.

That makes it an ideal match for a Pizio LCD!

RR6 :biggrin5:

[Smokey]

How about this price from Sam's Club :16:

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k455/themattrixreloaded/Picture006.jpg

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]As usual Pixy can't read, and can't hold his wad(old man complex). I never said prices were NOT coming down, I said they are not going to take losses on players just to sell them and gain market share. Sharp is releasing a new player in a few months, and they are moving stock on the old stuff. There is a cycle here(pixy, I know it is hard, but pay attention brightness). A player is released at manufactured suggested price. It get's to market and sells. The manufacturer plans on releasing another player, so they discount the old player to make room on the shelves for new players, and to reduce inventory. This is how you are going to see price reductions. You are not going to see bluray prices at the level of DVD prices anytime soon. If you remember last year, bluray player prices dropped for christmas, and afterwards returned to full price. You are going to see that again this year.

This is a NEW model, with a "fast load " feature.
Pay attention please.
AND YES in the top tier of products SHARP is at the bottom, but its still a name brand



In spite of what is going on in the economy right now, bluray players are still flying off the shelves. During the 2001-2003 downturn, there were more DVD players sold than in all of the previous years combined.

WHICH aint saying much, considering how many were sold in all previous years combined


Pixie, brighten up man(and mature up as well) are you really that stupid to believe its bad news for the BDA when a player sells, and they make a profit? Use what functioning part of the brain you have!
Didnt say it was.
BUT FROM WHAT YOU TELL on this site , they were hoping for several years of elevated prices.
AND its aint happening:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE]

This is a NEW model, with a "fast load " feature.
Pay attention please.
AND YES in the top tier of products SHARP is at the bottom, but its still a name brand

They haven't had a new model in months pixie, so it was not a "new" model in terms of product cycle. Considering most manufacturers are releasing two generation per year, this product is rather old. And considering Sharp is releasing a new player in just months, this is old stock. Its fast load is still quite slow next to a PS3. Its fast loading until you get to Java, and then the player will behave just like all of the others. The player was released in June, it doesn't do Dts MA(pass through or decode), and its a profile 1.1 player. Mostly all of the 1.0 players(like your S300) are being heavily discounted as the profile 1.1 players(even the cheapies) hit the market, and a series of profile 2.0 players start to proliferate as well. The players regardless of profile, that cannot either decode or pass Dts MA are also being heavily discounted as players that can hit the market. Lot's of reason for this player being discounted for a quick sell. Most folks would not mention Sharp in the same company as Pioneer, Sony, or Panasonic. Sharp is pretty well known, but not what I would call a "brand" name company.


WHICH aint saying much, considering how many were sold in all previous years combined

Pixie, there were over ten million players sold from 1997 to 2001. Ten million players plus is no small number to accomplish is two years during an economic downturn.



Didnt say it was.
BUT FROM WHAT YOU TELL on this site , they were hoping for several years of elevated prices.
AND its aint happening:1:

Its the way you seem to interpret everything pixie, no context, no ability to understand the detail. You apparently were sleeping during the early years of DVD, and you totally are missing the point of what I am saying here. What I said was the manufacturers are not going to push prices down so they lose profit to gain market share like Toshiba did. I said(and rather clearly) that prices will drop naturally as new product hits the shelves. I said you are not going to see player prices drop until manufacturers realize manufacturing efficiencies, which has clearly happening with Sony and Panasonic players. Sony was able to cut prices BEFORE players hit the street, not after they have been there for months. That is a clear sign of efficiencies realized during production. as Sony is still making a nice profit on each player.

You seem to have a hard time quoting things I have said. Perhaps you should drop the angry filters, and start using some that allow you to see detail, and not just what you want to see.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=pixelthis]

They haven't had a new model in months pixie, so it was not a "new" model in terms of product cycle. Considering most manufacturers are releasing two generation per year, this product is rather old. And considering Sharp is releasing a new player in just months, this is old stock. Its fast load is still quite slow next to a PS3. Its fast loading until you get to Java, and then the player will behave just like all of the others. The player was released in June, it doesn't do Dts MA(pass through or decode), and its a profile 1.1 player. Mostly all of the 1.0 players(like your S300) are being heavily discounted as the profile 1.1 players(even the cheapies) hit the market, and a series of profile 2.0 players start to proliferate as well. The players regardless of profile, that cannot either decode or pass Dts MA are also being heavily discounted as players that can hit the market. Lot's of reason for this player being discounted for a quick sell. Most folks would not mention Sharp in the same company as Pioneer, Sony, or Panasonic. Sharp is pretty well known, but not what I would call a "brand" name company.



Pixie, there were over ten million players sold from 1997 to 2001. Ten million players plus is no small number to accomplish is two years during an economic downturn.




Its the way you seem to interpret everything pixie, no context, no ability to understand the detail. You apparently were sleeping during the early years of DVD, and you totally are missing the point of what I am saying here. What I said was the manufacturers are not going to push prices down so they lose profit to gain market share like Toshiba did. I said(and rather clearly) that prices will drop naturally as new product hits the shelves. I said you are not going to see player prices drop until manufacturers realize manufacturing efficiencies, which has clearly happening with Sony and Panasonic players. Sony was able to cut prices BEFORE players hit the street, not after they have been there for months. That is a clear sign of efficiencies realized during production. as Sony is still making a nice profit on each player.

You seem to have a hard time quoting things I have said. Perhaps you should drop the angry filters, and start using some that allow you to see detail, and not just what you want to see.

PREHAPS you should remember what you said and not what you claim you said.
AND you have said repeatedly that you and your BDA buddies want the price of blu players to stay "high" for awhile.
Which aint gonna happen.
And no I wasnt "asleep" during the early days of DVD, paid 450
for a Panny with SVHS only and no progressive.
But that was then, DVD was such an advance over everything
available at the time...
Blu is more of an evolution, realy, people can wait it out, and with teh current unpleasantness they will , mostly.
One good thing about BLU, once you get it in the house you are sold for life, wouldn't think of watching a movie on anything else, be it Blu or
a regular DVD.
Peeps thinking of "getting by" with an upconverter are missing out, really.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[quote]PREHAPS you should remember what you said and not what you claim you said.
AND you have said repeatedly that you and your BDA buddies want the price of blu players to stay "high" for awhile.
Which aint gonna happen.
And no I wasnt "asleep" during the early days of DVD, paid 450
for a Panny with SVHS only and no progressive.
But that was then, DVD was such an advance over everything
available at the time...
Blu is more of an evolution, realy, people can wait it out, and with teh current unpleasantness they will , mostly.
One good thing about BLU, once you get it in the house you are sold for life, wouldn't think of watching a movie on anything else, be it Blu or
a regular DVD.
Peeps thinking of "getting by" with an upconverter are missing out, really.:1:

A. You cannot read, and you cannot remember a quote to save your miserable empty life.
B. I never said ME and my BUDDIES at the BDA anything, those are your words, not mine.
C. Obviously nobody was sitting around waiting anything out. Bluray players are selling like hotcakes, and the proof earlier this year was in the fact there were so many backorders, and they couldn't keep players on the shelves.
D. During recessions, people buy more disc and players as they tend to spend on home entertainment, and less on high ticket items and vacations. There is a historical presedence on this.
E. Prices on players are falling naturally, not because the public is not buying them. Get your facts straight before blowing off your big fat mouth.
F. Your behavior on this board is truely immature and childish. Stop running around trying to create arguements that make you look more stupid than you actually look in person.

[E-Stat]

PREHAPS you should remember what you said and not what you claim you said.
Perhaps you might illustrate your point with direct quotes.

rw

[pixelthis]

Perhaps you might illustrate your point with direct quotes.

rw

SO now i gotta wander this site to find a linky to what this turd said?
OH, OKAY.
When I have time.:1:

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=pixelthis][QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]



A. You cannot read, and you cannot remember a quote to save your miserable empty life.
B. I never said ME and my BUDDIES at the BDA anything, those are your words, not mine.
C. Obviously nobody was sitting around waiting anything out. Bluray players are selling like hotcakes, and the proof earlier this year was in the fact there were so many backorders, and they couldn't keep players on the shelves.
D. During recessions, people buy more disc and players as they tend to spend on home entertainment, and less on high ticket items and vacations. There is a historical presedence on this.
E. Prices on players are falling naturally, not because the public is not buying them. Get your facts straight before blowing off your big fat mouth.
F. Your behavior on this board is truely immature and childish. Stop running around trying to create arguements that make you look more stupid than you actually look in person.


That is not EXACTLY what you said, but that was the gist of it.
I said that players would go down in price in a year, year and a half at most, you said it was the idea of the BDA that they would keep player prices high for awhile, not do what happened to DVD(never mind that that took a DECADE)
GEE, I am on your side and I get nothing but insults.
If this is the way you treat people who basically agree with you then
I can see why everybody argues with you.
BUT deny It all you want, you have stated as much several times.:1:

[pixelthis]

HERES A couple of quotes from this thread;

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=28091


Don't hold your breath on this one Smoke. The members of the BDA saw what the Chinese did to the DVD format, so they are keeping them at bay right now. The Chinese do not like to pay for liscensing of technology, so with DVD they generally didn't, and it gave them an advantage that forced the big guys out of that market(or at least from making a profit). At the last BDA meeting I attended, they were going to allow chinese manufacturers to make the players, but they were not about to allow them to liscense the technology because they know it will blow a hole in the floor if they do.


I said that the bottom of the price would fall out before the end of the year, sir talky said no, wrong as usual.
SIR TALKY said that manufacturers "wouldnt allow it", when are such types going to figure out that the free market doesnt give a rats butt
what the manufacturers want, once supply exceeds demand,

I said no such thing. What I did say is that your majors are not going to be trimming prices any time soon, and I am right about that. Everyone knew last year that Funai was going to get into the game, I said so right here on this website. I knew back then there were going to be cheaper players coming, they just weren't coming from Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung, Denon, Marantz or any other major brand name. So next time you quote me(or better yet don't) git your story straight(which may be impossible for someone who pisses out of his ears). Oh and by the way, supply has not even come close to the demand. The majors are still having trouble keeping up with the demand, which is why their prices have remained higher.


And this is just one instance, he has said as much several times,
that Blu player manufacturers want to keep prices :up" for awhile.
Everybody who surfs this site knows as much:1:

[kexodusc]

From where I stand, Pixie and Sir T are both right here.

FACT - BluRay players have not fallen in price at anywhere near the pace and magnitude of DVD players at this point in the life cycle.

But...then again, the technology and capacity to build BluRay players with a respectable margin on them is far greatert than it was 8-10 years ago when DVD hit the shelves.

And to be fair, I don't see many big price cuts from the likes of Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, LG, Sony, etc. Just the predicted, life-cycle paced cuts that Sir T mentioned we would see.
Some of the more "entry level" brands like Samsung and Sharp do have more attractive price points right now, but it's nowhere near as attractive as it was when Apex hit the shelves with it's MSRP of $170 back in 2000, while other mainstream consumer brands were still at $300. Nor are there off-brand BluRay players selling at $99 while the notables are selling at double that price...2 years after DVD hit the big-box shelves, we already had that.

But Pix is right too, prices have continued to drop...I'm just not sure he deserves the Nostradamus Award for predicting that a new consumer-electronics device would get cheaper over time... :)

[Feanor]

From where I stand, Pixie and Sir T are both right here.

FACT - BluRay players have not fallen in price at anywhere near the pace and magnitude of DVD players at this point in the life cycle.

But...then again, the technology and capacity to build BluRay players with a respectable margin on them is far greatert than it was 8-10 years ago when DVD hit the shelves.

And to be fair, I don't see many big price cuts from the likes of Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, LG, Sony, etc. Just the predicted, life-cycle paced cuts that Sir T mentioned we would see.
Some of the more "entry level" brands like Samsung and Sharp do have more attractive price points right now, but it's nowhere near as attractive as it was when Apex hit the shelves with it's MSRP of $170 back in 2000, while other mainstream consumer brands were still at $300. Nor are there off-brand BluRay players selling at $99 while the notables are selling at double that price...2 years after DVD hit the big-box shelves, we already had that.

But Pix is right too, prices have continued to drop...I'm just not sure he deserves the Nostradamus Award for predicting that a new consumer-electronics device would get cheaper over time... :)

Market stratification is a desirable thing for manufacturers and distributors: DVD mainstream / BluRay upmarket. Going mainstream for BluRay would mean a fall in prices to something very close to prevailing DVD hardware & software prices: with current, surpressed consumer demand, that would be the only thing acceptable to consumers. Makers and distributors are interested in sustaining the higher prices for BluRay vs. DVD for the time being -- and perhaps indefinitely.

If Sir T is correct that the BluRay interest group can prevent off-brand, low-priced interlopers through licensing or whatever, we will see DVD and BluRay co-exist for quite awhile with, of course, BluRay prices higher.

[kexodusc]

Market stratification is a desirable thing for manufacturers and distributors: DVD mainstream / BluRay upmarket. Going mainstream for BluRay would mean a fall in prices to something very close to prevailing DVD hardware & software prices: with current, surpressed consumer demand, that would be the only thing acceptable to consumers. Makers and distributors are interested in sustaining the higher prices for BluRay vs. DVD for the time being -- and perhaps indefinitely.

If Sir T is correct that the BluRay interest group can prevent off-brand, low-priced interlopers through licensing or whatever, we will see DVD and BluRay co-exist for quite awhile with, of course, BluRay prices higher.

I think your market stratification angle would be very plausable. If not for 1 minor issue: The bulk of the money in this product is not going to come from selling players, it's going to go to the BDA and other stakeholders through licensing via the sales of the BluRay titles themselves.

Every single manufacturers might actually prefer stratification to yield a higher margin, but they're not going to be able to enjoy that for the simple reason that Sony is holds both cards in this case. If competitors don't fight on price, Sony will grow its market share substantially because it could subsidize the hardware to support the cash cow that is the software! They've already done this somewhat (and successfully) with the PS3.

I also think there's pressure from other stakeholders to move on from DVD, something the likes of Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, etc have no control over - the evil movie studios, who want to sell you the same movie yet again, to force upon you more copy protection, and to own a piece of your home like a Fief Lord.

[Feanor]

I think your market stratification angle would be very plausable. If not for 1 minor issue: The bulk of the money in this product is not going to come from selling players, it's going to go to the BDA and other stakeholders through licensing via the sales of the BluRay titles themselves.

Every single manufacturers might actually prefer stratification to yield a higher margin, but they're not going to be able to enjoy that for the simple reason that Sony is holds both cards in this case. If competitors don't fight on price, Sony will grow its market share substantially because it could subsidize the hardware to support the cash cow that is the software! They've already done this somewhat (and successfully) with the PS3.

I also think there's pressure from other stakeholders to move on from DVD, something the likes of Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, etc have no control over - the evil movie studios, who want to sell you the same movie yet again, to force upon you more copy protection, and to own a piece of your home like a Fief Lord.

The telling point might be that Sony is among the "evil movie studios" in addition to being a hardware maker like Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, etc.

On the other hand Blue Ray Disc Association includes other interests than Sony so Sony doesn't entirely run the show. According Wikipedia, the 18 board members as of January 2008 were:

Apple Inc.
Dell Inc.
Hewlett-Packard Company
Hitachi, Ltd.
LG Electronics
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic (Matsush!ta Electric)
Pioneer Corporation
Royal Philips Electronics
Samsung Electronics
Sharp Corporation
Sony Corporation
Sun Microsystems
TDK Corporation
Thomson SA
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney Motion Pictures Group / Walt Disney Studios Home
Entertainment
Warner Bros. Entertainment, Inc.That's a pretty broad representation of both hardware manufacturers and media producers. In addtion "contributors", officially eligible to be directors, include both h/w and s/w producers, e.g.

MGM, Universal:
DTS, Inc.
Electronic Arts Inc.
InterVideo Inc.
Lionsgate Entertainment
Metro Goldwyn Mayer
Paramount Pictures/Viacom
Universal Music Group
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd. (JVC)I'd still guess most are interested in stratification at this point in time, including the media producers who can still demand some premium for the Blu-Ray versions.

[kexodusc]

The telling point might be that Sony is among the "evil movie studios" in addition to being a hardware maker like Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, etc.

I'd still guess most are interested in stratification at this point in time, including the media producers who can still demand some premium for the Blu-Ray versions.

Or I could be wrong..


There's plenty of people with vested interest in BluRay, but I think we'll see it slowly take over from DVD in the next few years. I'm not sure the industry is propping up DVD for stratification as much as they are taking great care to maximize the profitability of DVD as part of its exit strategy, while simultaneously maximizing the profitabilty of BluRay in it's growth phase. Most of the BDA group have a vested interest in DVD as well, so they'll take great pains not to cannibalize DVD on the way out, and vice versa.

I can say anecdotedly that the local Blockbuster and Futurshops have been completely caught off guard by the stronger than anticipated demand for new releases on BluRay. When my little city can completely sell out of BluRay titles, that's a good sign.

Feanor, you could be right too, however. I'm not 100% sure what global demand for BluRay is, but I suspect outside of North America, Japan, and a few European countries, the market for DVD is much greater than it is for BluRay. What exactly is the market saturation of HDTV's in countries like Guatemala and Slovakia, anyway? If they don't have a capable HDTV, there's not much benefit to having a BluRay player, is there? But, as with many other products, the global demand might very well be 99.9% concentrated in 3 or 4 countries, making that point moot. I don't know to be honest.

As a niche product, BluRay is taking a funny approach though - prices are very mainstream friendly and the product is readily accessible - you usually don't get that in the audio/video world for "upmarket" products.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Or I could be wrong..


There's plenty of people with vested interest in BluRay, but I think we'll see it slowly take over from DVD in the next few years. I'm not sure the industry is propping up DVD for stratification as much as they are taking great care to maximize the profitability of DVD as part of its exit strategy, while simultaneously maximizing the profitabilty of BluRay in it's growth phase. Most of the BDA group have a vested interest in DVD as well, so they'll take great pains not to cannibalize DVD on the way out, and vice versa.

This is excellent analysis, and dead accurate as well.


I can say anecdotedly that the local Blockbuster and Futurshops have been completely caught off guard by the stronger than anticipated demand for new releases on BluRay. When my little city can completely sell out of BluRay titles, that's a good sign.

And take that with Paramount sadly underestimating how many people would use BD-Live on Iron Man, and players in short supply, it looks like everyone is caught off guard by the stronger than anticipated sales of the player and discs. Two of my local best buys have had a very difficult time keeping players on the shelves.


Feanor, you could be right too, however. I'm not 100% sure what global demand for BluRay is, but I suspect outside of North America, Japan, and a few European countries, the market for DVD is much greater than it is for BluRay. What exactly is the market saturation of HDTV's in countries like Guatemala and Slovakia, anyway? If they don't have a capable HDTV, there's not much benefit to having a BluRay player, is there? But, as with many other products, the global demand might very well be 99.9% concentrated in 3 or 4 countries, making that point moot. I don't know to be honest.

You are right, the demand is in NA, Japan, and Europe. However its the volume of the demand that is startling. DVD still is in great demand all over the world, but both player and disc sales are falling, especially in NA, Japan and Europe. India and China are still big DVD markets.


As a niche product, BluRay is taking a funny approach though - prices are very mainstream friendly and the product is readily accessible - you usually don't get that in the audio/video world for "upmarket" products.

Fortunately Bluray passed being a niche product several million players ago. It has FAR outsold the last niche video product; the laserdisc about 6 million players ago.

[pixelthis]

From where I stand, Pixie and Sir T are both right here.

FACT - BluRay players have not fallen in price at anywhere near the pace and magnitude of DVD players at this point in the life cycle.

But...then again, the technology and capacity to build BluRay players with a respectable margin on them is far greatert than it was 8-10 years ago when DVD hit the shelves.

And to be fair, I don't see many big price cuts from the likes of Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, LG, Sony, etc. Just the predicted, life-cycle paced cuts that Sir T mentioned we would see.
Some of the more "entry level" brands like Samsung and Sharp do have more attractive price points right now, but it's nowhere near as attractive as it was when Apex hit the shelves with it's MSRP of $170 back in 2000, while other mainstream consumer brands were still at $300. Nor are there off-brand BluRay players selling at $99 while the notables are selling at double that price...2 years after DVD hit the big-box shelves, we already had that.

But Pix is right too, prices have continued to drop...I'm just not sure he deserves the Nostradamus Award for predicting that a new consumer-electronics device would get cheaper over time... :)


Its actually dropping faster than DVD did, it took several years
for DVD players to hit 200 bucks.
AND its not surprizing, because the tech is already here, BLU is just DVD with a blu laser and some circuitry differences.
The basic form factor is that of a DVD player, really.
And BLU prices seem to be dropping faster also.
Sure the newer titles are higher, but a lot of classics are 14 bucks
or so, and a lot of concerts are 15 to 25.
I have four BLU discs, the most expensive (22$) was batman begins.
Blockbuster and movie gallery need to get a clue tho, each had two copies of Iron man for a total of four.
Since its come out the happening AND indiana jones
have come out, and I have rented both.
Still no Iron MAN tho!:1:

[kexodusc]

Its actually dropping faster than DVD did, it took several years
for DVD players to hit 200 bucks.

Several years? Hardly.
DVD was launched in March 1997. Apex had hit the market with their below-$200 MSRP players, which flew off the shelves back then, by Q1 of 2000. It took less than 3 years for the off-brand DVD players to flood the market and destroy the pricing structure.

I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen with BluRay, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see it not happen at all. Time will tell.

We're approaching that same point in time with BluRay (launched June 2006). The most optimistic assessment would be to say that BluRay prices are falling about as fast as DVD prices did. But that would be spinning it a bit much. Despite the big advantage of technology and production capacity being cheaper and more readily available today than it was 8 years ago, BluRay isn't outpacing DVD's price drop...yet.

And there's something to be said when BluRay had technology and cost advantages over DVD, and had to fight a much more grueling format war than DVD, yet prices have been maintained as strong, if not stronger.

[Mr Peabody]

When comparing DVD players to BR players pricing graph, one thing to consider, Apex cheap machines got the job done but you could see better picture in most more expensive machines, I have yet to hear anything about one BR player showing a better HD picture over another. My first DVD purchase was a Sony which I later sold because it didn't have DTS and then bought a Denon 1600 which cost about $449.00. Now here's Blu-ray. I don't plan to go cheap on my next BR, unless I can, but as every one knows DVD upsampling is important to me. But how many people will buy higher than what it takes to get the features they want if a higher price machine won't offer any better PQ? It will make a high dollar machine a hard sell. I wouldn't pay $1k more just so people can sit and look at my double thick aluminum chasis.

[pixelthis]

When comparing DVD players to BR players pricing graph, one thing to consider, Apex cheap machines got the job done but you could see better picture in most more expensive machines, I have yet to hear anything about one BR player showing a better HD picture over another. My first DVD purchase was a Sony which I later sold because it didn't have DTS and then bought a Denon 1600 which cost about $449.00. Now here's Blu-ray. I don't plan to go cheap on my next BR, unless I can, but as every one knows DVD upsampling is important to me. But how many people will buy higher than what it takes to get the features they want if a higher price machine won't offer any better PQ? It will make a high dollar machine a hard sell. I wouldn't pay $1k more just so people can sit and look at my double thick aluminum chasis.

You have a "double thick" chassis? Sad.
Anyway if "upconversion" is important check out Sony, their processing is among the best.:1:

[Mr Peabody]

No, Sony as well as the large percentage of all BR players use a single Sigma chip for both DVD and BR, the DVD playback is below average and far less than a good DVD player The only company offering good DVD upsampling is Samsung, only in certain players which use the Silicon Optics or high dollar Denon/Marantz with the Realto chip set. There is a chip that is supposed to be better than the Silicon Optics on upsampling but I forgot who. And, even if it's better I don't think any player on the market is using it yet. Players that use high quality chips for upsampling of DVD have to have two separate paths, one for SD and one for BR..

[pixelthis]

No, Sony as well as the large percentage of all BR players use a single Sigma chip for both DVD and BR, the DVD playback is below average and far less than a good DVD player The only company offering good DVD upsampling is Samsung, only in certain players which use the Silicon Optics or high dollar Denon/Marantz with the Realto chip set. There is a chip that is supposed to be better than the Silicon Optics on upsampling but I forgot who. And, even if it's better I don't think any player on the market is using it yet. Players that use high quality chips for upsampling of DVD have to have two separate paths, one for SD and one for BR..

WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
Sure silicon optix and the realto are best, but they cost, which is why they are in higher end players.
The Sony does a good job with what they have.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/509/3

check out the link above and see what happened when they tried
to compare the sony 300 to an expensive scaler.
A friend who had a Sony and got a Samsung says (FWIW)
that he liked the way DVD was played on the Sony player
better:1:

[Mr Peabody]

If he liked the Sony better, then he was using a Samsung that didn't have the Silicon Optics. Some one is blind if they think the s300 or any player with the Sigma does better DVD upsampling than the Samsung BD-P1200. Who told me was every pro review of any recent generation of Blu-ray player. The Sigma chip fails many of the video tests on DVD upsampling. Where were you when Sir T and I beat this subject to death? I thought BR players should offer good upsampling but Sir T maintained no one cares about upsampling. Most every one else here didn't much care either. I think you were still stuck on watching your cable. One shoot out of a large number of upscaling DVD players and a few BR players showed the Samsung BD-P1200 a clear winner at the time. The shoot out included notable players such as the Denon 3910. One reviewer said earlier this year when reviewing a BR player, "the DVD playback using the Sigma chip is on par with most SUB $100.00 DVD players"

If you are happy with it though that's fine. I don't think there's a big public back lash anyway or else some one other than Samsung would at least offer one higher end model that did better DVD playback. Maybe if the economy picks up. I would like to get the newer Samsung with the Optics chip but I have two of the 1200. Of course, with one in the main living room where the kids use it, I may be buying another sooner than I would like.

Also, Sir T or anyone else involved in the mentioned discussion never tried to defend the DVD performance of the Sigma chip, which nearly ALL Blu-ray players use, they just simply said no one cares. Do you care Pix?

[pixelthis]

If he liked the Sony better, then he was using a Samsung that didn't have the Silicon Optics. Some one is blind if they think the s300 or any player with the Sigma does better DVD upsampling than the Samsung BD-P1200. Who told me was every pro review of any recent generation of Blu-ray player. The Sigma chip fails many of the video tests on DVD upsampling. Where were you when Sir T and I beat this subject to death? I thought BR players should offer good upsampling but Sir T maintained no one cares about upsampling. Most every one else here didn't much care either. I think you were still stuck on watching your cable. One shoot out of a large number of upscaling DVD players and a few BR players showed the Samsung BD-P1200 a clear winner at the time. The shoot out included notable players such as the Denon 3910. One reviewer said earlier this year when reviewing a BR player, "the DVD playback using the Sigma chip is on par with most SUB $100.00 DVD players"

If you are happy with it though that's fine. I don't think there's a big public back lash anyway or else some one other than Samsung would at least offer one higher end model that did better DVD playback. Maybe if the economy picks up. I would like to get the newer Samsung with the Optics chip but I have two of the 1200. Of course, with one in the main living room where the kids use it, I may be buying another sooner than I would like.

Also, Sir T or anyone else involved in the mentioned discussion never tried to defend the DVD performance of the Sigma chip, which nearly ALL Blu-ray players use, they just simply said no one cares. Do you care Pix?


Yeah, and I also live in the real world.
And I remember that debate with talky, it was like a vacation because he was leaving me alone.
Forgot to thank you for that.
Everthing has to be factored in according to cost, and lets face reality,
a 300 $ Blu player plays 1080p at 72 hz(so no 3:2 pulldown) with
sound that would embarass any hi end audio system.
For such a player the sigma chip is fine, look at it this way, would you rather they compromise Blu playback?
"Upconversion " is a fraud anyway, you dont get any more resolution,
although it can improve a DVD picture, you still are dealing with a
480i picture, no matter what you do.
Me, I am moving on, most of my DVD's are much improved by the
use of a blu player, I consider that a bonus, truth is I already am at a point where I avoid DVD if at all possible.
Don't buy any more, thats money to put toward the Blu collection.
Right now upconversion is delegated to music videos and stuff I cant find anywhere else, all of my favorites are slated for replacement.
The latest being die another day, not a big Bond fan but I loved
this atypical example, and then theres stuff I missed on DVD, like my latest copy of L.A CONFIDENTIAL, cant wait to see that one on Blu.
Truth is Mr. P, I didnt buy a Blu player to watch an outmoded format
that has passed by the wayside, truth is I rarely watched DVD before I got a Blu, because the HD picture on the telly blew away anything DVD could attain, and dvd was regated to "favorites"
NOW, between Blu rentals and new libary additions, and increasingly
good HD from cable, like the amazing version of Chinatown that
was on UHD the other night( a near pristine copy) there just isnt time
to waste on an outmoded format.
Heck, THERE ARE SEVERAL places in town where I can get used
Blu ray! Got species today for fifteen bucks.
I loved my laserdiscs, but after one look at DVD they quickly became
dust collectors. And I might talk about my old records lovingly, but truth is they are raely listened to either, CD supplanted them, and now thats happening to CD as its happened to other formats.
The medium isnt the message Mr P, its mearly a conduit to great
media that we all love, remember tommy lee jones in MIB, saying that
he'd have to get the white album again because of a new format that aliens had given him?
Replacing old media is a given in this hobby, because if you love movies you want to see them the very best way possible.
And now with HD we can see movies in a way we havent since they have been in the theaters.
My laser of the blues brothers was fantastic, the DVD even better,
can't wait for the Blu disc, can you imagine that soundtrack in 5.1 LPCM?
So do I care?
Of course I do!
I care enough to invest in the best format possible to watch my movies.
Hate to do it, but I have to side with talky on this one.
DVD "upconversion" is a stopgap measure at most.
Time to move on.:1:

[pixelthis]

Look at it another way, Mr P, on the one hand there are those for who
even regular DVD is fine, so called "upconversion" is fine.
And then theres those who are going to watch Blu whenever possible.
Afraid theres no "hands" left for those rare HQ freaks who care about upconversion, sorry.
MAYBE you could get one of those TOSHIBA hotrod DVD players
soley for dvd playback if you care that much.
I dont understand their (and your) position , quite frankly.
Some DVDs look great on my Blu player, some (the Italian job) are
distinct disapointments.
But most look great in the BLU FORMAT, total recall being the only disapointment so far.
So DVD's, you did well in your time, time to step behind the woodshed
for an appointment with a guy, wants to show you his 357.
ADIOS.:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Well I will have to suffer with the movies I have on DVD because I'm not going to replace them, too many, too much money. I haven't bought any new movies on DVD since I got my BR player though. Well, I take that back I had to buy Transformers and a few animated things for the kids.

You need to subscribe to the Amazon Blu-ray newsletter. They send out specials and new releases. They now have a new buy 2 get 1 free deal going. A couple weeks ago I bought Wyatt Earp for $13.95. If you spend over $25.00 you get free shipping. Wyatt Earp I thought had excellent PQ, BTW. They actually have several titles for $13.95, most older movies but, hey, good price for a BR.

[pixelthis]

Well I will have to suffer with the movies I have on DVD because I'm not going to replace them, too many, too much money. I haven't bought any new movies on DVD since I got my BR player though. Well, I take that back I had to buy Transformers and a few animated things for the kids.

You need to subscribe to the Amazon Blu-ray newsletter. They send out specials and new releases. They now have a new buy 2 get 1 free deal going. A couple weeks ago I bought Wyatt Earp for $13.95. If you spend over $25.00 you get free shipping. Wyatt Earp I thought had excellent PQ, BTW. They actually have several titles for $13.95, most older movies but, hey, good price for a BR.

THANX.
Will check that out.
And I wouldn't think of replacing all of my DVD's, just the very favorite ones, like I did with laser and VHS.
Didn't replace all of those with DVD EITHER.
Some there is no point, like my moonlighting and firefly
collections:1: