Review/Pics - 50" Panny Plasma

[RoadRunner6]

My original thread, " Pulled The Trigger ... 50" Plasma", has become so infested with political haranguing and Pizio plasma trash talk that I thought I should begin anew with my findings on the Panny 50" 768p TH-C50HD18 plasma (Costco model).

Setup: My 42" JVC 480p plasma is setup in the living room and I used it for some comparison on broadcast SDTV and also tried it with the newBlu Ray player via component. The new Panny is next to it and connected to an old Panny DVD player with component cables. I just bought a new Panny Blu-Ray player, DMP-BD30, that is also hooked up with HDMI to the new Panny. My receiver is elderly and does not have HDMI. Unfortunately, the BD30 does not have in player decoding and I'll have to return it to Costco after my testing. I will look to the new Panny DMP-BD55 or the new OPPO BDP-83 when they are out. I have Comcast expanded cable with no cable box and no premium channels. It does have ESPN, History, A&E, etc. The Panny's QAM tuner allows me to receive non-scrambled HD channels. I did not test any audio (except for the Panny built-in speakers) as I know that is a given and I was mainly interested in the video performance of the 768p Panny. I broke in this set with 125 hours of full screen program material with the Panny set at "cinema" and at below average settings. Before my evaluations I set it to custom or cinema with normal settings.

Disclaimer: Understand that this is a $999 entry level model, same as the Panny TH-50PX80U with a couple minor differences. The regular model has 3 HDMI inputs versus 2 HDMI inputs on the Costco model. The regular model has a shiny black frame and the Costco model has a satin black non-gloss frame. Otherwise they are identical. Costco inlcudes their 2 year warranty and 90 day return.

More disclaimers: This entry level model has the basic picture controls but not the extra bells and whistles as the higher Panny models. I did not calbirate it except with my own eyes. Later I will calibrate it with my Avia and/or THX discs. My main interest was to evaluate the resolution of the 768p model. From my reading of many, many pro and user online posts I know the picture is considered excellent with owner or pro calibration. I will handle that later. I did not get into minute detail as to whether there were artifacts in the 5th chapter, 2nd scene on the left side of the screen where the camera had panned the purple picket fence, etc.

My main concerns were as follows:

Built-in Speaker Quality My wife likes to watch most of her TV progams on the TV's speakers and not use the surround system (this is one reason she did not like our former Panny pro model without speakers and tuner). I do the same late at night and also for talk shows, etc. I found the speakers on this Panny to be plenty adequate for this purpose with adequate volume and clarity.

PQ on SD Broadcasts The picture quality on standard definition broadcasts was good to excellent, depending on the source. On obvious programs broadcast for HD with high quality signals such as NFL sports and live news casts it was impressive. Proof that the source is as important as the native resolution of the set. This new Panny was actually better than the JVC (I tested them side by side and even switched the cable leads). This surpirsed me since the JVC had very good PQ on SDTV. I am very pleased with the performance of this new Panny on SD. As you might know, many budget sets look very good on HD sources but rather disappointing on SD sources. I found big differences as I changed cable leads and had to be very careful to get equal signal quality. I wll definitely buy some new high quality cable connectors for both of my sets.

Set Appearance My wife has no problem with my HT purchases as long as the product is attractive in our living room. We did not like the silver sets or the ones with piano black frames. Who wants reflections from the frame while you are viewing. This Costco model has a satin, non-gloss black frame. It is very subdued, makes the picture pop and is very nice looking according to my wife. A thin classy looking decorative strip across the lower front is reflective but is tilted up and does not reflect to the viewers. The plastic stand is not an exact color match but is not obtrusive once installed. Overall we are extremely pleased with the beautiful appearance of this set.

PQ On HD Broadcast PQ on HD broadcasts was very good to excellent, but was slightly soft and a little below what I would have liked to see. After a lot of viewing I realized this lack of perfection was due more to the source than the set IMO. Other users have reported great HD broadcast PQ, so either I have not the best cable signals or this set is less than tops on HDTV (I'm being pretty picky here). I have seen OTA HD broadcasts on my JVC plasma that were amazingly good. The dealer had a store top antenna. I watched a 720p NFL broadcast that was very impressive on the 480p. The HD channels that I am receiving are obvioulsy not that impressive. Too bad we sit here and can't get top quality HD signals while the cable companies try to squeeze every buck they can out of us. The HD broadcasts in Japan are 5 years ahead of us and of higher quality.

Blu Ray Playback I rented two discs each of two movies, one regular DVD and one Blu Ray. Both Nim's Island and Dead Man's Chest were rated as 5 stars on video quality for the BD. I played them back simultaneously, hooked up to the new Panny, switching back between the BD (via) HDMI and SD DVD (via component on the older Panny player). The difference was very obvious and the new Panny really shined here. Later I set the Panny Blu Ray player to 1080/24p and it seemed to be even slightly sharper and have a bit more depth to the picture. I would judge the PQ on BD as excellent to superb. However, as good as it was I see room for improvement. No looking thru a window here (maybe at 1620p or 2430p) . Even without calibration the Panny set was very impressive. Very natural color, excellent contrast and brightness, very good blacks and sharp resolution clarity. There was a black setting in the menu with choices of "light" or "dark." I thought both were a little too strong and somewhere in the middle would have been perfect. I was also impressed how great the Blu Ray playback looked on the JVC It was somewhat difficult to see the difference between 480p and 768p with the BD. Anyone who still has a quality 480p will be truly amazed at the PQ with Blu Ray on their EDTV! The only glitch seemd to be that the sharpness contol did not work. The manual said it might not have any effect depending on the source. So I hooked up the old Panny DVD player to the new Panny with only a single composite cable and regular SD DVD. Finally I could see a slight change in the sharpness. What simply amazed me was the high quality of the playback on the Panny with the lowly DVD and compostie cable.

768p Versus 1080p When I bought the 768p Panny the 1080p Panny was $600 more. Now the difference Is $400. When I went back to buy the Blu Ray player I saw that they had the two Panny sets side by side. I had my remote so that I could test the sharpness control. It was not busy and I spent about two hours comparing the two sets. I used the remote to get them as close to the exact same picture as possible. My Costco uses an in house HD program. Whether standing back as far as I could, about 10 feet, or up close, about 4 feet, I could not tell any difference. If anything the 7680p might have been slightly clearer. This could have been due to cables, etc. I asked a number of customers, none who could see any difference or also very slightly clearer on the 768p. Next to the 1080p was a $2500 Pioneer Kuro PDP 5010FD (my mother used to pour Kuro syrup on our pancakes...actually my wife says "kuro" means black in Japanese). It had been set apparently on a cinema setting (not super bright as most the other sets) and it looked very close to the way I had the two Panny's set. The PQ on the Panny seem equal to the Kuro set but then I did not have access to the remote.

Miscellaneous Findings This set is actually 5 lbs lighter than my 42" set. There are two handles on the rear (I used to date a gal that had a couple of handles on her rear also...think someone had turned on her stretch mode) that help in lifting. The Panny 768p display/Panny Blu Ray player gave impressive PQ on SD DVD's. This Panny has no fan and runs extremely cool and also quiet. You can barely hear an electronic buzz if you get your ear right against the rear ventilation holes. The screen is non-reflective and was no problem at all in our room. We have east facing windows with a tall forested hill and only indirect outside light. Not a trace of burn-in or IR (image retention).

So the big qustion: is the 1080p a visable improvement over the 768p? With HD broadcast from our cable provider, I doubt it. Perhaps the HD digital package would bring a better signal. Short of comparing them side by side with a Blu Ray source, I can't really make a definitive choice. However, my inner voice says maybe I would see a small improvement. Is that worth buying and dragging the 1080p here and doing a side by side comparison? Well, if the price on the 1080p gets down $200 more I might be very tempted (or just take it back and exchange them). Stay tuned.

In the meantime I'll post some photos below or in a second post below. I'm not exactly sure how to post multiple photos but I'll try. Sorry, it is impossible to get accurate photos this way, but you'll get the idea and Rich insisted on pics.

RR6 :biggrin5:

Remote Control A number of revews I have read complained about the lack of backlighting and the fact that this remote wouldn't control everything on the planet including Panasonic lawn mowers (no wait a minute.....oh, that's Honda). Well, that is exactly why I really like this remote a lot. After some time I'll enter the info onto my Home Theater MX-500 and not use this much. Meanwhile, it is plain black with very clear buttons. The Ch + Vol are right in the middle, large and easy to see. The other frequently used buttons, like the format (aspect), TV/Video, Menu and Return are easy to remember and locate even in a dark room once you've used it several times. When I was breaking it in I cycled the power on and off frequently. My wife said that her Panasonic rice cooker was also going on and off.....a so!.

Viewing Distance During 90% of my testing I was either 7-8 feet or 3-4 feet away from the display. Yes, I actually sat about 3-4 feet away when trying to check the smallest items for picture clarity. When the TV is in the permanent postion the sofa wilI be about 10 feet. I also checked from my computer desk, 16 feet and the kitchen (where my wife spends a great deal of time cooking while watching TV), 24-27 feet (yes, the volume was fine and the sound clear at this distance). I would even want to go for a 58" if we had a little more room in our condo living room. Bigger is definitely better with Blu Ray. On the other hand the thought of watching Rachel Ray at 8 feet on a 58" TV is simply revolting!

[RoadRunner6]

Panny 50" 768p Plasma Photos

[RoadRunner6]

Soory I can't figure out how to lump them together.

[RoadRunner6]

Another

[RoadRunner6]

And Another (look at the cracked lower lip)

[RoadRunner6]

More?

[RoadRunner6]

This Panny has no fan, lots of ventallation holes and runs very cool. It only gets slightly warm after many hours of operation.

[RoadRunner6]

Sorry, I am taking up so much space here. There might not be any room for Pix to make positive comments.

[audio amateur]

Nice review mate, cheers!

[Duds]

Glad to hear you are enjoying your new set!!!

[Worf101]

Now THAT'S a review. Good on ya M8. Glad you pulled the trigger, glad you like your choice. Many years of happy "awestruck" viewing.

Da Worfster

[Rich-n-Texas]

Good stuff RR6.:thumbsup:

Ya know, you can always trust Panasonic to put things together right. The thing just looks so well constructed.

Two things... I SURE hope you're gonna upgrade whatever's plugged into the Composite jacks (no, I haven't read your review yet), and... could you have posted pictures of anyone uglier than Jack Sparrow? :yikes:

[RoadRunner6]

no, I haven't read your review yet

Oh sure, just look at the pictures! Where have I heard that before? (that is actually an older three RCA cable into the component jacks for testing DVD versus BD on the same movie)

RR6 :biggrin5:

[Woochifer]

Great review. I've also been looking at the Pannys, Once you make the calibration adjustments, the PQ on Panasonic's plasmas can be quite stunning. In your case, you should definitely stick with the Avia calibration disc. The THX Optimizer tests are inconsistently done (and they don't include the color filter), since they are supposedly optimized to each individual movie title rather than benchmark standards -- I would avoid them.

I've been putting off the upgrade because with a baby at home and my wife only working half time, our budget's been going towards other things. But, the 1080p Panny 50" is now down to $1,500 and Costco also has an additional $200 coupon in this month's circular. I see an early holiday present in the works ... :cool:

[bobsticks]

Well, first and foremost, thanks for the most comprehensive and well thought-out review we've seen 'round these parts in a hot minute. Great work...and I'm glad you're liking the new set.Congrats.

Do either of the units have an RGB input?

[RoadRunner6]

Thanks guys for the kind comments.

Bobsticks, the model progression is 80U (same as my Costco model), 85U, 800U and 850U. Only the 800U and 850U have a mini D-sub input. I'm computer challenged but I presume that is the same as an RGB input.

Woochifer, thanks much for your comments and advice. You might have concluded correctly that I presumed I would be able to improve the PQ with calibration, either Avias or ISF. Thanks for your comments on the THX screens. However, my primary concern right now was to determine if I wanted to stay with 768p or go with 1080p. That is why I concentrated on the perceived clarity and definition. I spent a lot of time looking at certain scenes like facial close-ups, beards and scenes with text, etc that were great for evaluating sharpness in the PQ. I presumed (maybe incorrectly) that this would not be significantly improved in the calibration process. I have a big question for you and any one else with your knowledge: Will the calibration with an Avia disc or pro ISF calibration, as well as impoving color, contrast, etc., also improve the perceived definition of the display?

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

When I was at Costco yesterday the 768p was back down to $999 and the 1080p was down even farther to $1399 with in store reduction with that coupon. I hope maybe that it will be down another $100-$200 before or after Christmas. It will then be a no-brainer for me.

I have been financially challenged for years and have developed by necessity into a big bang for the buck guy (I've been a blue collar.worker for the last several decades and my wife cannot work). I think there is a line of diminishing returns on HT equipment but that line is significantly above my financial level. I would move up a lot if I had the funds. However, I'm very pleased with the performance I realized given the money output. It makes it more fun and rewarding for me when I have to put lots of research and bird dogging into each purchase to get the best price/performance results.

RR6 :thumbsup:

[RoadRunner6]

My forgotten comments about the remote control will be entered in above review tonight. Done.

Note The above photos were intended only to roughly represent the superb clarity of this display with Blu Ray playback. No photo can reproduce with any accuracy the actual PQ (including color accuracy, contrast, blacks, etc.) of the display image. Thank you for shopping at Walmart and have a pleasant day.

[pixelthis]

IT looks like a nicely built set, but I wouldn't settle for 768 when you can have 1080p(which does make a real difference, trust me)
You can blame your cable for pic deficencies, but once using BLU
there is no place to hide.
Your pic is softer because its a plasma.
This is called "filmlike" by some on this board instead of what it is, lack of detail. I thought this was what you plasma fanboys were looking for.
And a comment on pic adjustment, you need to turn down the RED
a TAD. otherwise the pic looks pretty good.
And turn the sharpness control off, ALL THESE THINGS DO IS MAKE VIDEO NOISE MORE VISIBLE.
And I havent seen a modern TV with a fan yet.
DLP sure, but I am talkin modern.
Oh well, what matters is that you are happy.
Not gonna cut down your TV, make any rude comments.
Congrats:1:

[RoadRunner6]

In my review I stated, "it is impossible to get accurate photos."

I was very hesitant to even post any photos of movies scenes because there is no way to get a photo that is even remotely close to the actual picture quality. I did so only because I tried to show photos that might give a general idea of the sharpness of the PQ on Blu Ray playback (and also Rich-n-Texas said I had to have pics). That is why I posted photos of facial closeups. I would have posted a photo of Jodie Foster's face and all of its imperfections but I didn't want to terrify anyone.

If you know anything about photography you would realize taking a shot of the screen during a movie and attempting to reproduce that shot accurately is impossible let alone to transfer it online and then have some member look at it on their computer screen and have anything remotely resembling the original scene that I saw with my own little eyeballs. (those are the only balls on my body that are little). Most photographers calibrate their computer screens on which they display photos. LCD computer screens are notorious for inaccurate color on photos.

The photo of Jack Sparrow for example is very washed out and nothing like the image on the display. Need I say more?

I was afraid that some "expert" would come on this thread and think my photos were an accurate representation of the PQ of the display. Well folks, that expert has arrived!

RR6 :biggrin5:

[pixelthis]

In my review I stated, "it is impossible to get accurate photos."

I was very hesitant to even post any photos of movies scenes because there is no way to get a photo that is even remotely close to the actual picture quality. I did so only because I tried to show photos that might give a general idea of the sharpness of the PQ on Blu Ray playback (and also Rich-n-Texas said I had to have pics). That is why I posted photos of facial closeups. I would have posted a photo of Jodie Foster's face and all of its imperfections but I didn't want to terrify anyone.

If you know anything about photography you would realize taking a shot of the screen during a movie and attempting to reproduce that shot accurately is impossible let alone to transfer it online and then have some member look at it on their computer screen and have anything remotely resembling the original scene that I saw with my own little eyeballs. (those are the only balls on my body that are little). Most photographers calibrate their computer screens on which they display photos. LCD computer screens are notorious for inaccurate color on photos.

The photo of Jack Sparrow for example is very washed out and nothing like the image on the display. Need I say more?

I was afraid that some "expert" would come on this thread and think my photos were an accurate representation of the PQ of the display. Well folks, that expert has arrived!

RR6 :biggrin5:


RICH said you had to have pics.
Theres your error, listening to rich in his own mind(check the market)
And yes screen captures can be a poor representation of PQ, I
know that you big silly, but you still need to turn down the
RED

It also helps to use a tripod and a freezframed image.
What I said about sharpness still applies.
AGAIN congrats on your new toy.
Wont ridicule you or do nuthin to spoil the day.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

How did you determine that I should turn down the red? (not by looking at the photo...we already agree that you cannot judge color accuracy from the photo...ESP?) Can you explain please?

I am amateur photographer with 40 years of experience. When I took those pics I used the self timer mode (eliminates camera shake) on a quality Sony digital camera which was mounted by a RRS 9-E bidirectional plate to a tripod system, consisting of a RRS B2 LR II lever release clamp, Markins M-10 ballhead and a Benro C228-n6 carbon fiber tripod (Gitzo knockoff). Total cost, $845 not including camera.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/QR/04.html

http://reallyrightstuff.com/QR/03.html

http://www.markins.com/2.0/eng/products/ballheads/m10.html

http://www.benro.cn/ENbenro/AA_ProductShow.asp?ID=50 (C-228n6 is North American version of C-258n6)

The photo of the bearded character in Dead Man's Chest was shot at ISO200, flash off, 1/40th second, F2.8, VGA resolution (computer/e-mail size) and overcast white balance. The remaining photos were all shot at the same settings except some were at 1/6 second thru 1/60 second, -1.0EV and auto white balance or incandescent white balance. All shots were with Blu Ray disc in pause mode.

Note The above photos were intended only to roughly represent the superb clarity of this display with Blu Ray playback. No photo can reproduce with any accuracy the actual PQ (including color accuracy, contrast, blacks, etc.) of the display image. Thank you for shopping at Walmart and have a pleasant day.

I think it's so upstanding that you are in a ridicule free mode!

RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

Oh, BTW, I am a member of the Nikonians (Nikon owner's community).

[RoadRunner6]

News clip from Sound and Vision Magazine

October 10, 2008
Boomtime for Plasma
Even with the global economy on increasingly shaky ground, a new study out of China shows that — not only are plasma sales booming as LCD sales fall — plasma sales are actually hitting historical highs.

While you can debate on which is better/cheaper/blacker/thinner/sexier/brighter, it seems plasma sales are going strong, according to a report from DisplaySearch, a market research firm.

Is it technology-driven, or an effect of the economy?

Part of it's simple supply and demand. Samsung and LG both shipped more plasma units recently. As a result, the prices for similar sized screens favor plasma over LCD, by about 25%. In this economy, who doesn't want to save 25%?

In most viewing rooms, plasma works fine, and with better prices, why wouldn't sales be booming? —Leslie Shapiro


RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

[Duds]

LCD IS DEAD!!!!!!


News clip from Sound and Vision Magazine

October 10, 2008
Boomtime for Plasma
Even with the global economy on increasingly shaky ground, a new study out of China shows that — not only are plasma sales booming as LCD sales fall — plasma sales are actually hitting historical highs.

While you can debate on which is better/cheaper/blacker/thinner/sexier/brighter, it seems plasma sales are going strong, according to a report from DisplaySearch, a market research firm.

Is it technology-driven, or an effect of the economy?

Part of it's simple supply and demand. Samsung and LG both shipped more plasma units recently. As a result, the prices for similar sized screens favor plasma over LCD, by about 25%. In this economy, who doesn't want to save 25%?

In most viewing rooms, plasma works fine, and with better prices, why wouldn't sales be booming? —Leslie Shapiro


RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

[Wits]

Very nice review! Thanks for taking the time to post it for the community. :)

Oh, and not to be picky, but I think your mom poured Karo, not Kuro syrup on your pancakes. Yummy! :smilewinkgrin:

[Woochifer]

Thanks guys for the kind comments.

Bobsticks, the model progression is 80U (same as my Costco model), 85U, 800U and 850U. Only the 800U and 850U have a mini D-sub input. I'm computer challenged but I presume that is the same as an RGB input.

Woochifer, thanks much for your comments and advice. You might have concluded correctly that I presumed I would be able to improve the PQ with calibration, either Avias or ISF. Thanks for your comments on the THX screens. However, my primary concern right now was to determine if I wanted to stay with 768p or go with 1080p. That is why I concentrated on the perceived clarity and definition. I spent a lot of time looking at certain scenes like facial close-ups, beards and scenes with text, etc that were great for evaluating sharpness in the PQ. I presumed (maybe incorrectly) that this would not be significantly improved in the calibration process. I have a big question for you and any one else with your knowledge: Will the calibration with an Avia disc or pro ISF calibration, as well as impoving color, contrast, etc., also improve the perceived definition of the display?

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

The calibration process is about getting all of the settings optimized so that they are tuned to the same specs that the mastering engineers use at their production desks. In general, TVs leave the factory set to a "torch mode" that has the brightness and sharpness dialed way up. This is not for optimal picture quality, but rather for standing out in a retail showroom or brightly lit big box store. (Generally, only high end stores and occasional midlevel stores calibrate their displays for the most realistic comparisons)

Different manufacturers use different default settings (and these settings will even vary between models from the same manufacturer), which is why calibration is so essential. It basically optimizes the picture to the same standard benchmarks that the studios use.

Calibrating your TV won't reveal any new details or increase the resolution. It will simply give you the optimal color balances and let your TV deliver ITS best possible picture quality. The first time I calibrated my TV from the factory defaults, it was literally like watching a brand new TV -- the picture quality improvement was that dramatic.

The difference between using a calibration disc and going with an ISF calibration will also depend on the set. Some manufacturers allow for more detailed control over the picture adjustments (Pioneer Elite is by far the best in this regard), while others are shipped with settings that allow for the standard controls to come pretty close to benchmark performance (I recall that Hitachi and/or Toshiba was supposedly pretty good). Other TVs benefit greatly from ISF calibration because a lot of the necessary adjustments are buried within the service menus (need special codes to enter the service menus, and you invalidate your warranty if you mess around with them).

I recall other posters mentioning that the older Panasonic models looked good after using a calibration disc, but were stunning after an ISF calibration. On the AVS Forum, I've seen other comments mentioning that the newer Panasonic's factory settings are now closer to the benchmark standards than before. No idea how much the ISF calibration improves the picture compared to their older models.


When I was at Costco yesterday the 768p was back down to $999 and the 1080p was down even farther to $1399 with in store reduction with that coupon. I hope maybe that it will be down another $100-$200 before or after Christmas. It will then be a no-brainer for me.

I have been financially challenged for years and have developed by necessity into a big bang for the buck guy (I've been a blue collar.worker for the last several decades and my wife cannot work). I think there is a line of diminishing returns on HT equipment but that line is significantly above my financial level. I would move up a lot if I had the funds. However, I'm very pleased with the performance I realized given the money output. It makes it more fun and rewarding for me when I have to put lots of research and bird dogging into each purchase to get the best price/performance results.

RR6 :thumbsup:

If you're happy with your TV and financially challenged, I would stick with what you got. The ~$1,300 that you would spend upgrading the display from 768p to 1080p would probably be better served upgrading the rest of your video chain to HD, if you haven't done so already. 1080p isn't going away, and prices will continue to decline. In the meantime, maximizing what you already have won't cost you much.

[pixelthis]

How did you determine that I should turn down the red? (not by looking at the photo...we already agree that you cannot judge color accuracy from the photo...ESP?) Can you explain please?

I am amateur photographer with 40 years of experience. When I took those pics I used the self timer mode (eliminates camera shake) on a quality Sony digital camera which was mounted by a RRS 9-E bidirectional plate to a tripod system, consisting of a RRS B2 LR II lever release clamp, Markins M-10 ballhead and a Benro C228-n6 carbon fiber tripod (Gitzo knockoff). Total cost, $845 not including camera.

http://reallyrightstuff.com/QR/04.html

http://reallyrightstuff.com/QR/03.html

http://www.markins.com/2.0/eng/products/ballheads/m10.html

http://www.benro.cn/ENbenro/AA_ProductShow.asp?ID=50 (C-228n6 is North American version of C-258n6)

The photo of the bearded character in Dead Man's Chest was shot at ISO200, flash off, 1/40th second, F2.8, VGA resolution (computer/e-mail size) and overcast white balance. The remaining photos were all shot at the same settings except some were at 1/6 second thru 1/60 second, -1.0EV and auto white balance or incandescent white balance. All shots were with Blu Ray disc in pause mode.

Note The above photos were intended only to roughly represent the superb clarity of this display with Blu Ray playback. No photo can reproduce with any accuracy the actual PQ (including color accuracy, contrast, blacks, etc.) of the display image. Thank you for shopping at Walmart and have a pleasant day.

I think it's so upstanding that you are in a ridicule free mode!

RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

Oh, BTW, I am a member of the Nikonians (Nikon owner's community).


I had a Minolta SLR and a complete kit, but with this stuff, women,
gambling, crack, etc, something had to be tossed over the side,
and seeing the advent of digital, I just lost interest.
AND it is a problem judging accurate color in a jpg, expecially one shot VGA (try svga next time) but its still easy to tell you have something oversaturated. Dont worry, that makes you like most of America,
most like their video a little "rich" instead of accurate.
Don't need a high res pic of the moon to tell its been hit by meteors.
Of course I am taking into act that you are shooting a pic of a plasma!
;-) :1:

[RoadRunner6]

The calibration process is about.....The ~$1,300 that you would spend upgrading the display from 768p to 1080p would probably be better served upgrading the rest of your video chain to HD

Thanks much Woochifer for the explanation and detailed comments and clearing up the effect on resolution of the calibration. You make a great point on the price. $999 is almost down to the throw away level. The extra $400 will almost pay for the Oppo BD-83 when it is released. I have checked out the owner's manual on the new Panny model 55 and see that the sub crossover is limited to 100Hz and the OPPO, at least on the 983, was at the better 80Hz level for my situation (sub by neccessity being in the rear of the room and also my older Sony ES receiver which I intend to keep for some time).

On second thought, if I want to stay low budget and depending on how compelling the new OPPO is, I might consider going with the Panny new model 35 (doesn't have the in player decoding for True HD and DTS MA thru anaolog outs, but is pretty much the same otherwise) and just stay with the Sony ES using Dolby Digital until I can upgrade to a new HDMI receiver. I now have a Velodyne SMS-1 sub EQ and the Sony ES has a great Para EQ that allows for very effective frequency response tweeking which I would loose passing the HD audio thru the player's bass management.

The new model 35 is suppose to list for $299 versus the model 55 at $399, so it should be down to $250 or so in no time online.

Thanks for helping make the choice easier for me on the plasma.

Thanks also to Duds and Wits. I'd also like to thank my third grade teacher, Sister Mary Holy Water.......(orchestra volume increases drowning out RR6's acceptance speech).

RR6:biggrin5:

[RoadRunner6]

Note The above photos were intended only to roughly represent the superb clarity of this display with Blu Ray playback. No photo can reproduce with any accuracy the actual PQ (including color accuracy, contrast, blacks, etc.) of the display image. Thank you for shopping at Walmart and have a pleasant day.

Pix says: "its still easy to tell you have something oversaturated."


Some folk just can't read and/or understand simple English!

RR6 :frown2:

[RoadRunner6]

Correction

Earlier in this thread Bobsticks asked: "Do either of the units have an RGB input?"

I answered: "Bobsticks, the model progression is 80U (same as my Costco model), 85U, 800U and 850U. Only the 800U and 850U have a mini D-sub input. I'm computer challenged but I presume that is the same as an RGB input"

Sorry, my answer was incorrect. The 50" 1080p version (TH-C50FD18) at Costco does indeed have the PC input, while the 50" 768p version (TH-C50HD18) at Costco does not. While the two Costco models are the same as the regular Panasonic models the 768p TH-50PX80U and 1080p TH-50PZ80U, there are several small differences (neither the PX or PZ have the PC input).

RR6 :confused5:

[pixelthis]

Pix says: "its still easy to tell you have something oversaturated."


Some folk just can't read and/or understand simple English!

RR6 :frown2:

And obviously you are one of those.
On most sets sold the first thing you do is turn down the red(color)
as the default is almost always too high.
Another problem you have is your choice of subject matter, you need
a film source, not one of the latest digital wonders.
I hate the pirate movies with a pink and purple passion, they represent the general decline in cinema that has been going on of late.
There are so many beautiful movies out there, why pick this one?:1:

[RoadRunner6]

turn down the red(color) as the default is almost always too high......There are so many beautiful movies out there, why pick this one?

I knew you couldn't read. I explained in my review that I adjusted the settings. They were not left at the default. You are so mentally deficient that even after telling you about 3 times why any excessive red you saw on the photo posted was not on the display you still can't understand.

I also explained that I chose those movies strickly because they had the highest video rating and used them only for testing.

Why don't you try posting when you are not intoxicated. Now it's time for you to go to bed and sober up!

RR6 :hand: :hand: :hand:

[Wits]

I have been financially challenged for years and have developed by necessity into a big bang for the buck guy (I've been a blue collar.worker for the last several decades and my wife cannot work). I think there is a line of diminishing returns on HT equipment but that line is significantly above my financial level. I would move up a lot if I had the funds. However, I'm very pleased with the performance I realized given the money output. It makes it more fun and rewarding for me when I have to put lots of research and bird dogging into each purchase to get the best price/performance results.
RR6 :thumbsup:
Pretty much exactly sums up my situation, except I'm sans wife. The hours and hours put into research that finally (hopefully) pay off into that great find of a product that is right on the sweet spot of price and performance is exhilarating! :)

[pixelthis]

Pretty much exactly sums up my situation, except I'm sans wife. The hours and hours put into research that finally (hopefully) pay off into that great find of a product that is right on the sweet spot of price and performance is exhilarating! :)

No offense, but have you ever heard of the phrase "overthinking
things"?
I DO RESEARCH, but usually walk into a store, pick out the best they have that I can afford, and pull the trigger.
ONE THING MORE ENJOYABLE THAN "RESEARCH" and shopping for your new toy is actually enjoying your new toy.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

I usually walk into a store, pick out the best they have that I can afford, and pull the trigger.

That explains why you ended up with a Vizio. Wits and I do extensive research and are never left up in the air wondering if we got the best bang for the buck.

RR6

[RoadRunner6]

Update

When I started this thread I stated:

"......PQ On HD Broadcast PQ on HD broadcasts was very good to excellent, but was slightly soft and a little below what I would have liked to see. After a lot of viewing I realized this lack of perfection was due more to the source than the set IMO. Other users have reported great HD broadcast PQ, so either I have not the best cable signals or this set is less than tops on HDTV (I'm being pretty picky here). I have seen OTA HD broadcasts on my JVC plasma that were amazingly good......"

After more than 400 hours of use I have confimred my opinion above. It seems the average PQ on HD sources has improved slightly and I would rate it from very good to mostly excellent. I have read on other forums that plasmas have some improvement after break-in due to stability in the pixels. I'm not sure whether that is factual but it seems that I have observed this. I also have better cable program PQ late at night when there seems to be less use. I definitely noticed the same on my previous sets. Many times I will notice a sudden improvement in PQ when the source is changing on the same program. For example, when a newscast goes to a live HD feed from the field. The picture quality is very dependent on the source. Most of the time the HDTV PQ is excellent but not quite up to the PQ on Blu-Ray which is exactly what I expected. I am currenty watching the local news feed and switching back and forth between the SDTV and HDTV feed (adjacent channels). Sitting here at my computer (15 feet away) the difference is slight, very impressive SDTV PQ indeed. This has got to be the best SDTV PQ on the market. It is a sad commentary on our broadcast industry, both cable and satellite that we have to put up with substandard sources due to compression and crowded channels. I am going to try an OTA antenna when I get the chance. I presume that will improve the PQ.

In summary, this is one very fine set for the price. For someone who wants to get a 50" plasma for $999 it is a steal. I still have 30 days to go to determine if I want to upgrade to the 1080p for $400 more. If I do go with the 1080p I'll post my comparative comments.

RR6 :D

[pixelthis]

Update

When I started this thread I stated:

"......PQ On HD Broadcast PQ on HD broadcasts was very good to excellent, but was slightly soft and a little below what I would have liked to see. After a lot of viewing I realized this lack of perfection was due more to the source than the set IMO. Other users have reported great HD broadcast PQ, so either I have not the best cable signals or this set is less than tops on HDTV (I'm being pretty picky here). I have seen OTA HD broadcasts on my JVC plasma that were amazingly good......"

After more than 400 hours of use I have confimred my opinion above. It seems the average PQ on HD sources has improved slightly and I would rate it from very good to mostly excellent. I have read on other forums that plasmas have some improvement after break-in due to stability in the pixels. I'm not sure whether that is factual but it seems that I have observed this. I also have better cable program PQ late at night when there seems to be less use. I definitely noticed the same on my previous sets. Many times I will notice a sudden improvement in PQ when the source is changing on the same program. For example, when a newscast goes to a live HD feed from the field. The picture quality is very dependent on the source. Most of the time the HDTV PQ is excellent but not quite up to the PQ on Blu-Ray which is exactly what I expected. I am currenty watching the local news feed and switching back and forth between the SDTV and HDTV feed (adjacent channels). Sitting here at my computer (15 feet away) the difference is slight, very impressive SDTV PQ indeed. This has got to be the best SDTV PQ on the market. It is a sad commentary on our broadcast industry, both cable and satellite that we have to put up with substandard sources due to compression and crowded channels. I am going to try an OTA antenna when I get the chance. I presume that will improve the PQ.

In summary, this is one very fine set for the price. For someone who wants to get a 50" plasma for $999 it is a steal. I still have 30 days to go to determine if I want to upgrade to the 1080p for $400 more. If I do go with the 1080p I'll post my comparative comments.

RR6 :D


Its a steal alright, but you werent the thief.
ALL electronics have some sort of break-in period, plasma TV is the worst since the plasma is inherently unstable.
A few "consumer avocates" used to complain about 90 day warrenties,
but they are actually about right, if your set doesnt break in 90
days it probably wont, in most cases.
"extended" warrenties are for the most part a waste.
Expect the pic on your plasma to change gradually over time,
dont bother with ISF calibration unless you want to do it at least once a year. This is not only true with plasma but also CRT.
You're set is heading toward something called "half brightness",
the industry is banking on the brains ability to adjust to gradual change
to keep you from noticing.
Enjoy you new set!:1:

[nightflier]

My original thread, " Pulled The Trigger ... 50" Plasma", has become so infested with political haranguing and Pizio plasma trash talk that I thought I should begin anew with my findings on the Panny 50" 768p TH-C50HD18 plasma (Costco model).

I'm afraid I've played a part in taking your last thread off-topic, so I owe you an apology. Very nice TV and great pics, the kind you don't see much elsewhere. I am now definitely torn between Plasma and LCD. I originally was largely headed towards LCD, but the price drop on Plasmas really does need to be kept in perspective, and given that we're talking about Panasonic, a company that's been doing Plasma a healthy long time, that also tilts the scale. Finally, the fact that the Panasonic BR player is currently my top choice, it's getting hard to justify LCD anymore.

Now if Panasonic only made a decent pre/pro....

Who would have thought :yikes: !

[RoadRunner6]

Nightflier, those comments about my thread getting off subject were meant to be humorous. I used the words infested and trash talk in a light hearted way, like I was pouting about it. It cracks me up that almost all the threads sooner or later get way off subject. In another of my threads, I complained about the fact that my thread was a "mere shadow of its former self," again simply my dry tongue in cheek humor. When in doubt know that I am probably joking or teasing, 100% of the time. I'll try to start using more smiley faces :D .

No apology necessary, friend.

I find that LCD's are great for very bright environments or long held static images. They have come a long way. However IMO, plasmas are still superior in most other performance factors inlcuding blacks, color accuracy, off angle viewing, fast moving subjects and natural picture quality. Even the new 120Hz doesn't help LCD that much. Those into lots of sports are much better off with a plasma. The LCD's are down to 4ms or lower response times while plasmas are in the .04ms range.

I am into photography and LCD displays remind me of photos that are over-corrected with sharpness controls...too much like computer monitors with the edgy/pixelated characteristics. This might sound trite but try it sometime. Go outside and look around at both nature and manmade object. Look at trees, plants, grass and flowers and then also at buildings, light poles, etc. Notice that these objects are clear but not overly so. Look at the edges of buildings. They are sharp but not like a razor. There is a natural smoothness outside without the over-sharp edges and over saturated colors of many LCD displays. Good plasmas have a smooth, natural and precisely accurate presentation like film movies versus video movies and what you really see in nature.

The only LCD I would buy is Sony or perhaps a Panny or JVC, but they are more money all things being equal. More important than the native resolution is the quality of the scaler, de-interlacer, digital picture processing circuitry, etc. As I put in another thread a 768p Pioneer plasma out performed 4 or 5 1080p sets of various designs in a shootout. I'll take this 768p Panny plasma any day over a low to mid budget 1080p plasma.

Anyway, the prices are gettin so low, soon they will pay you to haul one out of the store!

RR6 :D

[02audionoob]

I agree wholeheartedly with the above comments about the sharpness of LCD. My Sony has a tendency to look like cut-outs in a shadow box. A person in the foreground with, for example, trees in the background, looks detached from their surroundings, like a cut-out of a person in front of a photo of trees. There's very little depth and nuance...far less gradation than reality.

[nightflier]

I find that LCD's are great for very bright environments or long held static images. They have come a long way. However IMO, plasmas are still superior in most other performance factors inlcuding blacks, color accuracy, off angle viewing, fast moving subjects and natural picture quality. Even the new 120Hz doesn't help LCD that much. Those into lots of sports are much better off with a plasma. The LCD's are down to 4ms or lower response times while plasmas are in the .04ms range.

I am into photography and LCD displays remind me of photos that are over-corrected with sharpness controls...too much like computer monitors with the edgy/pixelated characteristics. This might sound trite but try it sometime. Go outside and look around at both nature and manmade object. Look at trees, plants, grass and flowers and then also at buildings, light poles, etc. Notice that these objects are clear but not overly so. Look at the edges of buildings. They are sharp but not like a razor. There is a natural smoothness outside without the over-sharp edges and over saturated colors of many LCD displays. Good plasmas have a smooth, natural and precisely accurate presentation like film movies versus video movies and what you really see in nature.

I like the nature-perspective you put it in. Frankly, even the less full-featured Panasonic Plasmas look better to me than the LCDs when they are right next to each other in the store. I did the pre-black Friday rounds this weekend: Paul's, CC, BB, Costco, and even Target and K-Mart. While there will be some deals, I'm not really going to stand in the cold all night to get in on the slim pickins that it seems will be offered. I'd rather buy into some kind of price protection a day before (CC & Costco offer this) and then come back after Friday and use the money saved to buy a few movies.


The only LCD I would buy is Sony or perhaps a Panny or JVC,

JVC?


Anyway, the prices are gettin so low, soon they will pay you to haul one out of the store!

Well they're not that low. Granted they are quite a bit lower than LCD, but still up there. Costco's 120Hz. Panasonic at $1399.99 seems to be the best deal I was able to find. CC and BB are selling the TH-50PZ80U, with less features for $1699.99-ish. On Saturday, CC did have an offer to throw in a Panasonic BR player for free, which was tempting, but still not enough to beat Costco's price and 2 yr. warranty.

My goal: 120Hz Panny for around $1000. If I can find that's I'm buying.

[RoadRunner6]

Upgraded to Costco Panasonic 50" 1080p Model TH-C50FD18

Due to my sweet wife saying "go ahead and get the 1080p model if you want" plus an unexpected profit recently in the stock market I returned the 768p and forked out $400 more for the 1080p model. I expected there to be very little difference in SDTV and HDTV broadcasts except at very close distances. I expected the same on the upscaling of standard DVD's. I presumed the biggest difference might be on Blu-Ray.

Well, was I in for a surprise!

As before, I started a break-in procedure with movies like Nemo, Chicago, etc. (with varied colors) set on auto repeat that would run for many hours with a quick rest period every 6-12 hours or so, plus some full screen TV. The mode was set to cinema and the settings were way below 50 at first.

Almost immediately I thought I noticed a difference in the PQ. I thought maybe it was my imagination at first. Then my wife without any questions from me said she thought the color was better and the picture seemed to stand out more. So I started paying close attention and confirmed that I was seeing an improvement in color saturation (not overly so, just more intense) and what seemed to be an increase in scene depth.

I also definitely saw an improvement in definition especially in HDTV broadcasts, subtle but more obvious than I had anticipated, even at my computer 15' away. I was surprised that just an increase in resolution would give this improvement in overall PQ even at 15' and more. (later as mentioned below I realized it was a combination of resolution and more so increased contrast)

Finally I went back and checked the specs again, and noticed what I had missed before. Besides the obvious increase from 768p to 1080p (which in real perceived visual difference should be very slight, especially over 10 feet or so, if at all), the FD has an increased contrast ratio over the HD, "up to 20,000:1" versus "up to 15,000:1"). I am used to not giving much notice to these contrast specs because of the exageration by most brands and the lack of any contrast spec industry standard. I know these specs are though relative within the same brand and I should have paid attention. I feel this and also an increase in inherent brightness is the main reason that I am seeing a difference in my perceived improvement in color reality and scene depth. The black levels are also sightly improved. We are now over the 100 hours and feel we can clearly see an improvement again at the higher settings both as close as 6 feet and as far away as 25 feet (the kitchen). I am surprised but pleased by this noticable improvement at an increase of $400. Don't get me wrong, the TH-C 50HD18 is one heck of a bargain with excellent relative PQ on both SDTVand HDTV and outstanding with Blu-Ray. However, we do see an improvement both on TV broadcasts and DVD's (no Blu-Ray yet on this new set).

For the price this is defintiely a 5 star plasma! Two big toes way up!

RR6 :D

[pixelthis]

No such thing as a "five star" plasma.
As for the surprize at how big a diff 1080p makes, join the club.
Difference between night and day, really.
We hear this stuff over and over, repeated like a mantra, half the time its wrong.
Really a nice surprize, really:1:

[GMichael]

Great reveiew RR6. Congrats on the step up.

Now, about these two toes up. Would that mean that your.... uh....
Oh, just skip it.

[Duds]

I'm pulling the trigger soon on a Pioneer.....either the 5020 or the pro-111. most likely going to be the 5020 unless there is a serious price drop on the 111.

Congrats on the Panny, a very very nice set!!

[Woochifer]

Congrats RR for ignoring my advice, but welcome to the Panny 1080 club anyway! :biggrin5:

Glad to hear that you're enjoying that set as much as I have. With HDMI sources, the set does an outstanding job. And even with upscaled DVDs, the picture quality looks quite good.

I'd read that the 50" Pannys had very comparable picture quality with SD programming, but it seems like you observed some differences. I wonder though if some of the differences you observed with the colors had to do with differences in how the two models set their picture defaults, since you have yet to do a calibration.

BTW, what picture setting are you using? In my viewings, the Cinema setting provides by far the best picture quality, and it's purportedly the closest to reference levels. Using that setting, the colors and the depth of the image quality really come out. The Vivid setting looks awful, and the Standard setting also falls well short of optimal. It's too bad that this TV is set to the Standard mode out of the box, because it doesn't bring out the best in that TV. But, I guess that's the best compromise if someone's doing a comparison viewing at Costco where the LCD sets are all laid out in the torch mode.

[GMichael]

BTW, what picture setting are you using? In my viewings, the Cinema setting provides by far the best picture quality, and it's purportedly the closest to reference levels. Using that setting, the colors and the depth of the image quality really come out. The Vivid setting looks awful, and the Standard setting also falls well short of optimal. It's too bad that this TV is set to the Standard mode out of the box, because it doesn't bring out the best in that TV. But, I guess that's the best compromise if someone's doing a comparison viewing at Costco where the LCD sets are all laid out in the torch mode.

Won't this depend on the room lighting etc? I have the same projector in two rooms but have them on different settings.

[Woochifer]

Won't this depend on the room lighting etc? I have the same projector in two rooms but have them on different settings.

Yes it would, but the Cinema settings' gamma and greyscale settings are supposedly a lot closer to reference levels than the other presets. You cannot adjust those parameters without going into the service menus. The more limited user controls that come with those Pannys are their most glaring weakness. But, in order to get the more fine tuned user controls, you pay a lot more.

[RoadRunner6]

I agree with Wooch that on these Panny's the Cinema mode is the way to go both for the 768p and 1080p. I'm at work now so can't tell you the exact settings. I'm at about 125 hours so I will still boost the setting up some (I'm extra careful on the break-in stuff). Also my wife has not found where she stuffed my Avia and RS meter (very funny...she cleans up my messes...one time I found the RS meter in a box with some candles).

I was immediately aware that the settings I used during the first 50 hours or so were quite a bit lower on the 1080p than the 768p. On the 768p I had the cinema with about 45-50 for picture, 35-40 for brightness and 30 for color. These were faily low and my wife would ask why the set looked so dim on many scenes. I explained the break-in thing and that the cinema setting was more dim but also more natural. On the 1080p I was surpirsed that I had to go down to maybe 35-40 on picture, 30 on brightness and 25 on color for the same effect. However even at these settings I saw a positive difference.

I have raised them up now to about 50-60 on picture, 40 on brightness and 35 on color. Already it looks very good. I think on the 768p without calibration after break-in I had about 80 on picture, 60 on brightness and 50 on color. I'm pretty foggy on these settings and will correct them when I get home if necessary. I left all the other settings at off with color temp warm.

Our viewing is some in the daytime, fairly dark since we have indirect east outside light only and then at night, quite dark. If you change from cinema to vivid, game or even standard it is not pleasant. Only the custom setting seems to be an alternative to cinema but I have not played with it much yet.

The resoloution difference is definitely more obvious than I expected but no where near night and day. The increase in contrast, black level, depth and color pop (for lack of better terms) is a very pleasant surprise. As I sat at my computer late last night and turned frequently to view the news, etc., each time I was aware of the outstanding picture. .

I am like most who many times have buyers remorse or am very picky and wonder if I made the correct decision. With the 768p I knew I had a great deal for $999. However, I also knew there was room for some improvement.

At this point I am very confident that my last two puchases were simply outstanding buys for me and my budget and I have absolutely no reservations. Emotiva XPA-5 amp and Panny TH-C50FD18.

RR6 :thumbsup: :23: :23: :8: :19: :6: :5: :14: :biggrin5:


PS: Thanks for the nice comments. Critiques are always welcome.

[Woochifer]

The interesting thing about the Cinema preset is that once you go above +60 on the brightness and contrast, the image doesn't change that much. On the Vivid and Standard presets, the picture will keep brightening up until you get past the blooming stage. Can't really get the edges to bloom on the Cinema preset. I used to use the Standard preset for times of day when the room gets really bright, or when I'm watching hockey. But, I've gotten to a point where I just leave it on the Cinema setting, since it's optimal for most of my viewing.

[Jack in Wilmington]

I agree with Wooch that on these Panny's the Cinema mode is the way to go both for the 768p and 1080p. I'm at work now so can't tell you the exact settings. I'm at about 125 hours so I will still boost the setting up some (I'm extra careful on the break-in stuff). Also my wife has not found where she stuffed my Avia and RS meter (very funny...she cleans up my messes...one time I found the RS meter in a box with some candles).

I was immediately aware that the settings I used during the first 50 hours or so were quite a bit lower on the 1080p than the 768p. On the 768p I had the cinema with about 45-50 for picture, 35-40 for brightness and 30 for color. These were faily low and my wife would ask why the set looked so dim on many scenes. I explained the break-in thing and that the cinema setting was more dim but also more natural. On the 1080p I was surpirsed that I had to go down to maybe 35-40 on picture, 30 on brightness and 25 on color for the same effect. However even at these settings I saw a positive difference.

I have raised them up now to about 50-60 on picture, 40 on brightness and 35 on color. Already it looks very good. I think on the 768p without calibration after break-in I had about 80 on picture, 60 on brightness and 50 on color. I'm pretty foggy on these settings and will correct them when I get home if necessary. I left all the other settings at off with color temp warm.

Our viewing is some in the daytime, fairly dark since we have indirect east outside light only and then at night, quite dark. If you change from cinema to vivid, game or even standard it is not pleasant. Only the custom setting seems to be an alternative to cinema but I have not played with it much yet.

The resoloution difference is definitely more obvious than I expected but no where near night and day. The increase in contrast, black level, depth and color pop (for lack of better terms) is a very pleasant surprise. As I sat at my computer late last night and turned frequently to view the news, etc., each time I was aware of the outstanding picture. .

I am like most who many times have buyers remorse or am very picky and wonder if I made the correct decision. With the 768p I knew I had a great deal for $999. However, I also knew there was room for some improvement.

At this point I am very confident that my last two puchases were simply outstanding buys for me and my budget and I have absolutely no reservations. Emotiva XPA-5 amp and Panny TH-C50FD18.

RR6 :thumbsup: :23: :23: :8: :19: :6: :5: :14: :biggrin5:


PS: Thanks for the nice comments. Critiques are always welcome.

Thanks for the info RR6. I ordered the TH46PZ85U on Sat. and this will give me a reference point to start with. I was going to use the Avia disc also. Sold my old Sony RPTV on Monday. That should give me room to work so I'm ready when it arrives.

[RoadRunner6]

Great Jack, let us know your impressions. Right now I moved my settings up a tad and I'm watching in cinema, picture 70, brightness 50, color 40, tint -2 and color 35, color temp warm. Looks pretty nice from my computer, 15'.

Wooch, I just can't seem to tolerate standard, cinema seems more natural.

[RoadRunner6]

Received $100 Price Adjustment Credit Today.

Was in Costco today with my receipt and noticed the price on my 50" Panny 1080p plasma had gone down to $1299 from my purchase price of $1399. They said I could get only one price adjustment in the first 30 days. I think with another person I would have got it beyond 30 days if needed as I had been told by two other people at Costco. Anyway, I'm happy at the $1299 price for such a great TV.

The 46" 1080p was still at $949, but the 42' 768p was down to $629 and the 42" 1080p was at $799 (I think).

RR6 :biggrin5:

[pixelthis]

[/B][QUOTE=RoadRunner6]Received $100 Price Adjustment Credit Today.

Was in Costco today with my receipt and noticed the price on my 50" Panny 1080p plasma had gone down to $1299 from my purchase price of $1399. They said I could get only one price adjustment in the first 30 days. I think with another person I would have got it beyond 30 days if needed as I had been told by two other people at Costco. Anyway, I'm happy at the $1299 price for such a great TV.

The 46" 1080p was still at $949, but the 42' 768p was down to $629 and the 42" 1080p was at $799 (I think).

RR6

FIRE SALE :1:

[nightflier]

RR, Went to cost to check on prices too - maybe I should swap my TV for the larger one. But it looks like the $950 is about as low as it will go, though. Apparently Costco is only making a few dollars on these. Nonetheless, I'll keep checking. If you see any movement on that price, let us know.

[RoadRunner6]

The question is: is the extra 4" worth $350 to you? For me it is since we sometimes view as far as 15' to the computer desk and 25-30' in the kitchen. You will definitely have 90 days to return and get the 50" or 30 days to get a price adjustment credit if they drop the price farther. (also if you talk to the right person they might give you the price credit up to 90 days).

I go there usually twice a wwek or so and I'll let you know if i see any drops. They usually set their prices as a markup to cost (I think it is about 12%) and don't know if that applies to electronics. I think you will see this price drop in the next 30-90 days.

RR6

[Woochifer]

The question is: is the extra 4" worth $350 to you? For me it is since we sometimes view as far as 15' to the computer desk and 25-30' in the kitchen. You will definitely have 90 days to return and get the 50" or 30 days to get a price adjustment credit if they drop the price farther. (also if you talk to the right person they might give you the price credit up to 90 days).

I go there usually twice a wwek or so and I'll let you know if i see any drops. They usually set their prices as a markup to cost (I think it is about 12%) and don't know if that applies to electronics. I think you will see this price drop in the next 30-90 days.

RR6

Some rumor mill grist I heard from a friend who works at Magnolia is that Costco's looking into dropping electronics from its product lineup. Apparently, they make very little on electronics, and they don't like the direction that the industry is headed.

Although electronics generates huge revenue on each purchase, at its roots Costco is still a wholesale warehouse and more than half of their sales come from business-to-business and for-resale transactions. Unlike business customers who buy resale items and business supplies, consumer electronics tends to attract high maintenance customers, and Costco doesn't do itself any favors with their generous return policy. So, I can see why they would consider getting out of the electronics market, but I don't think it will happen.

[pixelthis]

Some rumor mill grist I heard from a friend who works at Magnolia is that Costco's looking into dropping electronics from its product lineup. Apparently, they make very little on electronics, and they don't like the direction that the industry is headed.

Although electronics generates huge revenue on each purchase, at its roots Costco is still a wholesale warehouse and more than half of their sales come from business-to-business and for-resale transactions. Unlike business customers who buy resale items and business supplies, consumer electronics tends to attract high maintenance customers, and Costco doesn't do itself any favors with their generous return policy. So, I can see why they would consider getting out of the electronics market, but I don't think it will happen.


IT WOULD BE A MISTAKE.
And further discrimination against guys, by dropping what they want.
With no electronics guys will ask their girls to shop at a place with electronics.
And be truthfull, how long has it been since you went to a store with no "toys" to play with?
IF A GUY GOES TO LOOK AT THE TOYS IN THE ELECTRONICS DEPT HE MIGHT DROP BY THE CLOTHING AREA, or look at shoes, etc.
But if theres no electronics in the place he wont even go in.:1:

[Jack in Wilmington]

Great Jack, let us know your impressions. Right now I moved my settings up a tad and I'm watching in cinema, picture 70, brightness 50, color 40, tint -2 and color 35, color temp warm. Looks pretty nice from my computer, 15'.

Wooch, I just can't seem to tolerate standard, cinema seems more natural.

The Panny arrived on Tuesday around 5:00pm. Had time to mount the wall bracket and change out the cables. It's amazing how many cables got replaced by the HDMI ones. Had picked up a Panasonic Blu Ray player on Sat. with some of the money I got from the sale of my old RPTV. So I got that in place on my rack and hooked into my receiver. It was getting late so I put off mounting the TV until Wed.

Wed. after dinner, I go and grab my next store neighbor and we get the TV up on the wall. After some minor changes to my receiver configuration, we fired it up. Looked great right out of the box, which is something I can't say about my old Sony RPTV. Put in your settings to start with, at least until Its broken in a little. Now I have to get some Blu Ray discs to see what they look like. Thanks RR6.

[Woochifer]

Looks like the Panasonic coupon special is over ... Costco's website now has the 50" 1080p Panny listed at $1,449. The 42" and 46" 1080p models aren't even listed anymore.

But, it looks like the Samsung plasmas are back at Costco. The 1080p 50" model is listed at $1,600. Not sure what retail model this is similar to, but I saw that Fry's Electronics' latest circular has a 50" Samsung 1080p plasma for $1,400.

[Woochifer]

Quick update - the 46" 1080p Panny is back at $949. :cool:

Also, Costco just added a new coupon special on the 58" 1080p Panny TH-58PZ800U for $2,500. This price is a full $1,200 lower than Best Buy's current price (strange, but BB is also selling the top of the line TH-58PZ850U for $200 less than the PZ800 version) and $200 lower than Amazon. The PZ800 plasma models come with the THX mode, true 1080p24 playback, and feature a single pane design.

[nightflier]

Whooch, what do you mean by "true 1080p24 playback" on the 800/850? What's the diff with the Costco models?

P.S. I calibrated the Panasonic screen last night, plugged up my Outlaw (still doing the component-video connection for now) and watched LORT-FOTR last night. At 480p, with the softer (read: fuzzy) image, it still looked pretty good, even when zoomed in 4x, it still looks watchable. I'm guessing the TV is doing all the upconversion and handling the frame rate, but I'm very impressed.

Can't wait to get HDMI going, though.

[Woochifer]

Whooch, what do you mean by "true 1080p24 playback" on the 800/850? What's the diff with the Costco models?

P.S. I calibrated the Panasonic screen last night, plugged up my Outlaw (still doing the component-video connection for now) and watched LORT-FOTR last night. At 480p, with the softer (read: fuzzy) image, it still looked pretty good, even when zoomed in 4x, it still looks watchable. I'm guessing the TV is doing all the upconversion and handling the frame rate, but I'm very impressed.

Can't wait to get HDMI going, though.

The entry level models handle 1080p24 material via 2:3 pulldown, while the higher lever models sync with the 1080p24 signal at its native resolution. The 2:3 pulldown process makes the TV more subject to visible telecine judder when viewing film-based material (which is typically filmed at 24 frames/sec), whereas TVs capable of processing a 1080p24 signal natively is supposed to make the image smoother with film sources. This article explains what some of this means.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1015

[nightflier]

Well Wooch, since you own a Costco model which handles the 1080p/24 signal via 2:3 pulldown, does this bother you? Is it a deal-breaker?

I presume, this is of no matter to me until I get the BR player, right?

[Woochifer]

Well Wooch, since you own a Costco model which handles the 1080p/24 signal via 2:3 pulldown, does this bother you? Is it a deal-breaker?

I presume, this is of no matter to me until I get the BR player, right?

I don't see it as a dealbreaker, especially in this price range. Obviously, I would have preferred native 1080p24 playback capability, but I got tired of finding new excuses not to pull the trigger on a HDTV, especially since all my previous conditions had been met (i.e., most of my preferred channels in HD, plasmas with 1080p at affordable price points, 120 Hz LCD sets at affordable price points, Blu-ray becoming commonplace with new releases, etc.). The judder is most noticeable during a credits scroll, but that's not much different than how film projection can look in a movie theater. And I don't know how that compares to native 1080p24 playback, since I've yet to bring a test BD with me for A/B comparisons.

You're right, none of this matters until you get Blu-ray (which is the only source out there with an option for 1080p24 playback) and even there, it only matters with those sources that were filmed using the normal film camera speed of 24 frames/sec (or any other multiple of 24).

[Woochifer]

Nightflier -

Your comments on how the TV handles upconversion concurs with what I observed when I disabled the deinterlacing and upscaling with SD sources on my Directv receiver, and let the TV handle those tasks. The motion artifacts I had been getting with SD sources via the Directv receiver disappeared with the Panny doing the deinterlacing and scaling. More details below.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showpost.php?p=267433&postcount=53

[nightflier]

By the way, I plugged the Panasonic's digital-out into my pre/pro, and it certainly looks to be just 2-channel stereo. So I guess I'll be watching 24 in some kind of matrixed surround formal this year, probably DPL-IIx, or something similar. I guess that's one of the drawbacks of not paying the Comcast/DirectTV/Cox racketeers; the rest of us freedom-loving OTA mavericks will just have to forgo true surround sound. And there's another reason not to watch broadcast TV anymore....

[RoadRunner6]

Was at our local Costco today and the price on the Panny TH-C50FD18 (50" 1080p) is down to $1199. Great price.

[nightflier]

Was at our local Costco today and the price on the Panny TH-C50FD18 (50" 1080p) is down to $1199. Great price.

I think I have a few days left on my 90-day price/return guarantee.

[Screefer]

Great info RR6. I'm new to Audio review forums and have been reading various threads for a few days. Being a proud Panny Plasma owner I have read your informative review with great interest and will try some of your suggestions for adjusting my picture.

[pixelthis]

Great info RR6. I'm new to Audio review forums and have been reading various threads for a few days. Being a proud Panny Plasma owner I have read your informative review with great interest and will try some of your suggestions for adjusting my picture.

From your equipment list you are obviously not just here to ask a question or two.
WELLCOME.:1:

[Woochifer]

I think I have a few days left on my 90-day price/return guarantee.

Haven't seen them in store or online. I would guess that they sold out of them, just like the 50" models will. Probably won't see them back at Costco until the rebadged versions of the new models begin shipping, and that usually doesn't happen until the other retail versions have been in stores for a couple of months or so.

[Woochifer]

Great info RR6. I'm new to Audio review forums and have been reading various threads for a few days. Being a proud Panny Plasma owner I have read your informative review with great interest and will try some of your suggestions for adjusting my picture.

Welcome. RR6's advice on the picture settings is spot on. The Panny plasmas are very nice TVs, and I have very few complaints about mine. The only recent TVs I've seen that have a clear step up in picture quality are the Pioneers.

If you have one of last year's models, I've read that the Standard mode on those Pannys are closer to the reference spec than this year's Standard mode. But, in either case, the Cinema mode is closest to optimal picture quality. Once you have it in the Cinema mode, then you just need to tweak with the settings, preferably with a calibration disc like Digital Video Essentials.