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exospire
10-10-2008, 08:43 PM
I am starting a 5.1 setup for my bedroom, which will pretty much be where I will watch most of my movies/tv shows 40%, and listen to music 60%. I have an Onkyo TX-SR506, and I want to start with a good 2.0 setup. My max budget is $200. Which of the following speakers would you say is overall the greatest quality:

1. Elemental Designs A6 - 5T5 - MTM
2. Energy C-100
3. Paradigm Atom Monitors
4. Behringer TRUTH B2030P
5. KEF IQ1 BLACK ASH

What do you guys think?

Then for a sub, what would be my best bet for around $180

1. Energy ESW 10
2. AudioSource PSW110 10"
3. BIC V1020
4. Klipsch KSW-10
5. Velodyne VX-10

blackraven
10-10-2008, 09:06 PM
I would include PSB Alpha B's in that catagory. I've seen them for $179pr. They are a stereophile recommended budget component.
Also consider Wharfedale Diamond 9.0's (amazon) and the Infinity Beta 20's, they are still available at crutchfield.com The infinity's dont sound tinny as many cheap small speakers do. They are actually a large bookshelf with big sound.

I've heard the Atoms and I was not impressed. They might be good for rear speakers. Even the Paradigm dealer didnt like them much.

That Energy sub was listed for $99 and is a great buy. I also like the velodyne for the price.

Let us know what you decide!

exospire
10-11-2008, 12:58 PM
Just what I need, more choices :biggrin5:

Where did you see the PSB's for $180? And where did you see the Energy sub for $99, that's crazy, I didn't know they ever dipped down to that price. Makes me wonder how good it really is...

blackraven
10-11-2008, 02:27 PM
Call and check the prices of the PSB's at www.saturdayaudio.com I've seen them at that price many times.

Here's the link for the sub. Its probably a end of year model close out price.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ENESW8

It looks about the same as the mirage S8 which is a very good inexpensive sub. Mirage and Energy are pretty much the same company. I think its a great deal and you should buy it at that price given your budget. Its probably as good if not better than the other subs your looking at given its $270 list price.

blackraven
10-11-2008, 02:40 PM
Here's a link to a review of the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's which is the newer model from the 9.0's They probably are very similar in sound as the design looks the same. The 9.1's are a little larger.
http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1105wharfedale/

You can also find the review of the PSB Alpha B1's and the infinity Primus 162's under budget components at the stereophile link.

And here's the Amazon link for the Wharfedales
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=wharfedale%20diamond&tag=therefusal4156-20&index=electronics&link%5Fcode=qs

exospire
10-11-2008, 03:26 PM
I'll read those reviews and call about the PSB's a little later or tomorrow if they are open, I have to go run some errands, but I was wondering about the Energy sub... the one you linked is only an 8" as opposed to the 10" that I was originally considering. What would be lost by going to a smaller woofer and will I really be able to tell in my bedroom? I am coming from a Klipsch Promedia sub that was dual 6.5woofers.

blackraven
10-11-2008, 03:29 PM
I would still go with the 8" woofer. I think that you will get deeper bass than the 2 6.5"'s . For your bedroom, I think you would have overkill for the 10". My room is 17x17x9 and I use an 8" Velodyne and it still shakes the whole house with nice deep bass. Saturday audio also has a Demo PSB sub for $199. I think it retails for $379. PSB subzeroi, I would consider it and the Energy. They both are good subs and will do the job for you. Personally, I would buy the Energy and put the money saved into your speakers. Maybe up grade to the PSB B15's or B25's, Wharefdale diamond 9.1's, or Monitor Audio B-2's.

RoadRunner6
10-11-2008, 03:48 PM
Personally, I would buy the Energy and put the money saved into your speakers.

I completely agree with Blackraven, great advise. That Energy sub will sound great in a bedroom. I had an 8" energy sub in my small living room several years ago and it sounded excellent. They are a great little sub. $99 is an obscene deal.

Also look at the Axiom Audio M2's which I own and sound super. Read the reviews here, no shipping charges or tax.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/m2.html

RR6

exospire
10-11-2008, 07:47 PM
Just a few things...

1.Should the type of music I listen to affect my decision to which bookshelfs to go? I noticed in the stereophile review of the atom monitor, the reviewer said that they are best suited for 'sane volumes' and might not be the best choice for hip hop listeners. I listen to mostly rock, post-rock, indie, experimental, and hip hop... artists like Sigur Ros, Explosions in the Sky, Modest Mouse, Muse, Gnarls Barkley, Living Legends, Mars Volta, and Atmosphere.

2.I don't plan on blasting my speakers constantly but I would like to have the option of listening to my music really loud if we are having a little shin-dig or being able to watch a movie at high volumes when my housemates are gone :)

3.I really appreciate your input guys, and now that I have settled on getting an 8" sub I have a few more dollars I can invest in bookshelfs, bringing my budget up to around $250. I was curious though as to why no one has commented on the Elemental Designs speakers. Are they not that well known yet or is there a reason why people aren't talking about them? I really like the way that they look, but I have no idea how they sound. They do have 2 4" woofers though as opposed to many of these other speakers that have just 1 5-6" woofer.

4. Also, some of these speakers say Nominal Impedance 6ohm... now my Onkyo receiver says it outputs 75w/ch at 8ohms... what will happen if I connect a speaker that says nominal impedance 6ohm to my receiver?

blackraven
10-11-2008, 08:36 PM
Your onkyo will be fine with 6 ohm speakers. As far as the Atoms go, they are a bright sounding speaker as are the PSB Alpha B1's. Ive heard the Atoms and thought they were junk, Way too bright. Rock and Roll is usually recorded too bright and I dont think you will appreciate the sound of the Atoms. I havent heard the PSB's but the reviews are good.

The Wharfedale Diamond 9.1's play loud and clean and have good mid base. The Infinity Beta 20's also play very loud and clean.

I bet the Monitor Audio B2's sound good as well, not too bright. I have a pair of Monitor Audio S1's and they have a warmer to neutral sound.

I cant comment on the Elemental's. But dont get caught up on looks especially at this price range. Looks are deceiving in the audio industry. I tend to like 6.5" woofers in bookshelfs, usually better bass/midbass.

Good choice on that 8" sub, it will be more musical then a 10" with more controlled bass in a low priced sub.

blackraven
10-11-2008, 08:49 PM
Here's a deal http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1228698220&/B-W-DM601
These are a nice warm speaker that I'm partial to
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1227578893&/NHT-1.5 NHT's are some of myfavorite bookshelfs.

exospire
10-11-2008, 10:04 PM
I'm going to do some more investigating into the Wharfedales and the Monitor Audio's..and I'm not sure I want to buy used if the item is discontinued, because when I expand my 2.1 setup to a 5.1 setup, I'd like to get matching rears and a matching center, and if I buy used fronts they might be hard to find.

One thing about the Elemental Designs A3 5T5 is that it uses a MTM design, and this is something new to me that I've just begun to read about. Many posts that I've read on forums seem to not favor this design and I was wondering if you could shed some light on this. I think people were saying that the sound zone for the tweeters in a MTM design get muffled from being in the middle of the woofers, unless the crossover is set low or something, but this stuff is still way above my head.

blackraven
10-12-2008, 10:05 AM
Those used B&W's are a great buy and would match fairly well with the current 600 line like the 686's and 685. You could always relagate the 601's to rear speakers once you eventually have enough money to buy another set of speakers.

Those 601's are much better than anything you are looking at!

Same goes for the NHT 1.5's which would pair well with the new NHT classic line- NHT Classic 2's and 3's.

You might also want to consider the Wharedale Diamond 9.2's which have a 6.5" woofer. http://ayselectronics.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5150

exospire
10-16-2008, 03:56 PM
I still haven't purchased speakers yet. I am having a hard time narrowing my choices down. Right now I am considering MONITOR AUDIO B-2, AV123 ELT525M Mini, HTD Level THREE, PSB Alpha B1 or PSB Image B15, Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 or 9.2, KEF IQ1 or KEF IQ3, and also SVS SBS-01 and Axiom M2 v2. I don't really want the speakers to sound too bright or forward sounding. I heard the Axioms can be pretty bright and I heard a couple bad things about the HTD, so I guess it's between the others. I really only wanna pay $300 shipped max. I would also be ok with floorstanding towers, but my bet is that a $300 bookshelf will sound better than a $300 floorstanding. I want to be able in the future to buy matching components as well, to make a 5.1 setup.

blackraven
10-16-2008, 04:17 PM
Wharfedale 9.2's Monior Audio B2's and consider the PSB B25's over the B15's.

Also consider NHT Zero's. The PSB alpha B1's and b15's are going to be bright.

Here's a review of the Wharfedale 9.1's, KEF's and the Monitor Audio B2's. http://smarthouse.com.au/Reviews/Home_Cinema/W4H9N8H4
The picture of the Wharfedale is actually the KEF in that review.

If you decide on the Wharfedale, go with the 9.2 over the 9.1. Its got a 6.5" woofer vs 5.25" and will have better sound.

blackraven
10-16-2008, 04:25 PM
Here's another review to look at http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/474/v/3/

Go with the Wharfedale Diamond 9.2's and buy the 9.1's as you rear channels later on.

Here's a deal on the 9.2's. It looks like Amazon is sold out of the 9.2's

http://www.tsto.com/cgi-bin/tsto.storefront/EN/product/2768

exospire
10-18-2008, 03:43 PM
I am this close | | to getting the Wharfedale's, but I still have the KEF iQ3 and AV123 ELT525 in my head. I think the AV123's look the best out of the group, and according to the smarthouse review, the Wharfedale's came out on top of the KEF's... Should I for sure get the Wharfedale over the KEF? If that's the case, then it's either the AV123s or Wharfedale's.

blackraven
10-18-2008, 05:21 PM
If you cant listen to the speakers themselves then all you have to go on are the reviews. I still prefer the wharfedale diamond 9.2's because of the larger woofer 6.5"'s which means better bass, larger sound. Every speaker that I have heard with a 5.4" woofer sounds small. Thats not to say that they sound bad. If you have read the reviews the wharfedales beat out alot of very good speakers.

Which ever speaker you go with in that group will be a good sounding speaker in that price range. Don't second guess youself because you'll drive yourself crazy. In the price range your looking at your not going to get great sound but you will get a good sound that you can enjoy.

Good Luck and keep us posted on what you decide. By the way, did you buy that sub? It is a hell of a deal!

exospire
10-19-2008, 01:32 AM
I haven't got it yet, I'm really hesitant about the fact that it's only 50 watts RMS.

blackraven
10-19-2008, 05:07 PM
That sub is a real bargain at that price. I wouldnt worry about the 50watts rms, its the peak watts that count with the sub. Your going to use it for your bedroom and it would be perfect for that or even a small apartment. A more powerful sub will over power your room and besides, if you find you need a larger sub in the future you can always sell it and probably get most if not all of your $100 back.

Your better off putting your money in beter front channel speakers.

zepman1
10-20-2008, 08:46 AM
I am this close | | to getting the Wharfedale's, but I still have the KEF iQ3 and AV123 ELT525 in my head. I think the AV123's look the best out of the group, and according to the smarthouse review, the Wharfedale's came out on top of the KEF's... Should I for sure get the Wharfedale over the KEF? If that's the case, then it's either the AV123s or Wharfedale's.

I think the Wharfedale 9.2's are an excellent recommendation or the PSB B25's. I have not heard them, but I thought the KEF IQ3's were supposed to be pretty bright sounding. Might want to check on that. Wharfedale's are a nice warm sounding speaker, and I think the 9.2's are tough to beat in their price range.

If you can't audition them, how about going online direct instead? Many of these companies will send you speakers to audition for 30 days and you can ship them back at no cost if you don't want them. Verify the details on the trial offer first, of course. Here are the models I would consider if you want to go this route:

Axiom M3 $330
Ascend Acoustics CBM 170SE $350
AV123 x-IS $300

All three of these speakers are very well reviewed. I will be considering them myself in the future. You can listen to all three side by side in your home and see what is best for you. And the fit and finish of these online direct models will likely far exceed others in this price range (maybe not the Ascend).

exospire
10-22-2008, 01:18 PM
Aren't the Axioms supposed to be bright? As far as I can tell from reading, the KEF's are more on the neutral side of things.

RoadRunner6
10-22-2008, 09:18 PM
I own the Axiom M2's. Same exact tweeter as the M3's but slightly smaller mid/bass driver. I do not find the M2's tweeter bright, only very flat, non edgy or harsh, with low distortion and excellent dispersion. Go to the Axiom site and read all the pro reviews on the M2, M3 and M22. They are all bookshelf models with the same exact tweeter. Look for the comments on the highs. They are shipped free to you with no tax. They actually do require you to pay the shipping back. I have three M2's across the front. I first bought a single M2 in the normal finish and tested it extensively. I was very pleased and paid the $12 or so to return it. Then I bought three in a custom piano gloss black finish along with two of their superb QS4 surrounds custom painted to match the wall paint.

I think you might be getting the "sounds bright" comments from user reviews which you usually can dismiss unless you hear the same comment on the majority of reviews. I think you are reading reviews from people who previously had speakers with severe roll-off in the highs. They are used to poor highs and now a speaker with an extended fairly flat response sounds bright to them. If they or you like the highs rolled off then fine.

One of the reviews on the M3 states:

".....Rated to 22kHz, their high end is sweet and amazingly good. It is some of the best treble I have heard on cone loudspeakers: very smooth, an excellent balance of detail and sweetness....." This is my impression also.

RR6

RGA
10-23-2008, 05:59 AM
I like the Wharfedale 9.1 and 9.2 - there is an amped pro version of this speaker for the same or less money but I can;t seem to find any links. This is a better speaker than some others but remember it is $150 more than the Atom which is a nice speaker. You get more with the 9.1 but you do pay more.

The Diamonds have always been pretty good but the current ones are a nice step up and for less money (inflation etc). I think it's probably the sub $400 speaker to beat and it's nice to see Wharfedale back on the map again.

zepman1
10-23-2008, 06:24 AM
Aren't the Axioms supposed to be bright? As far as I can tell from reading, the KEF's are more on the neutral side of things.

Everyone defines "bright" in their own way. Like RR said, many times you read reviews of people saying a speaker is bright when maybe they just are not used to a flat frequency response through 20k. That's why you should listen to the speakers before you buy, and the online direct brands I mentioned make that easy. Certainly not the only way to go, or even the best, but just another thing to think about! Always fun to do your own in home speaker face-off.

You have to pay return shipping on Axiom and maybe Ascend also. AV123 will ship them back for free also, so it is 100% no risk. And based on reviews of the x-Is speakers, I think it might fit your musical tastes very well. These speakers don't have the flattest frequency response out there, but they seem well suited to rock music and louder volumes. They are also really nice looking. I am looking forward to trying them myself.

exospire
10-27-2008, 04:31 PM
Hey guys, it's been a while, but I still haven't decided on a speaker and I've actually upped my budget to between $300 to $400. I have been looking closely at some different speakers than what this thread was initially about as well, some of which you advised zepman...

Infinity P362 (if I can catch it onsale at Frys again)
Infinity P162
Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE
KEF iQ3
Infinity P162
Axiom M3 v2
SVS SCS-01

AV123 doesn't have the x-bookshelf on their website anymore.

I'm really looking for the speaker that is the LEAST fatigue sounding, since I usually always have music playing, and play music while I sleep. I also want it to sound fairly neutral and smooth, and not overemphasize one area (treble for instance). And of course, I want it to be able to sound good at low and moderate to high levels without sounding muddy or stressed. And if it helps, I don't listen to any country, classical, or jazz. I listen to mostly Rock/ Alternative Rock/ Progressive Rock/ Indie/ Electronic/ Ambient/ Experimental/ Reggae/ Hip Hop... And I really can't afford to buy all of them to audition and send the losers back... so based on that can you hypothesize which speaker I would like best? :)


edit: I also found a pair of Energy RC-10's on audiogon for $300... how would those compare to everything that has been mentioned?

zepman1
10-28-2008, 10:36 AM
Hey guys, it's been a while, but I still haven't decided on a speaker and I've actually upped my budget to between $300 to $400. I have been looking closely at some different speakers than what this thread was initially about as well, some of which you advised zepman...

Infinity P362 (if I can catch it onsale at Frys again)
Infinity P162
Ascend Acoustics CBM-170SE
KEF iQ3
Infinity P162
Axiom M3 v2
SVS SCS-01

AV123 doesn't have the x-bookshelf on their website anymore.

I'm really looking for the speaker that is the LEAST fatigue sounding, since I usually always have music playing, and play music while I sleep. I also want it to sound fairly neutral and smooth, and not overemphasize one area (treble for instance). And of course, I want it to be able to sound good at low and moderate to high levels without sounding muddy or stressed. And if it helps, I don't listen to any country, classical, or jazz. I listen to mostly Rock/ Alternative Rock/ Progressive Rock/ Indie/ Electronic/ Ambient/ Experimental/ Reggae/ Hip Hop... And I really can't afford to buy all of them to audition and send the losers back... so based on that can you hypothesize which speaker I would like best? :)


edit: I also found a pair of Energy RC-10's on audiogon for $300... how would those compare to everything that has been mentioned?


The RC-10's fit in nicely with the group you have above. New, these would be out of your price range I think. The only problem with audiogon is you can't audition before you purchase. Keep in mind these only have a 5.5" woofer and have titanium tweets I think, which can be more fatiguing. I have not heard this speaker, but on the whole, I think metal tweeters are brighter than silk/textile tweeters, especially in these lower price ranges. If you are really concerned about the speakers being bright, and can't audition, I would stick with silk dome tweeters.

Too bad the X-LS is no longer available. I think that would have been a great fit for you. AV123 is coming out with a new x-LS superwave guide version, for maybe $400, but I don't think it is available yet. I saw on the AV123 forum, that eventually the x-LS will be available again. It is being re-tooled so to speak.

If you have a local audio store, they can often let you borrow a pair of demo speakers, and you don't have to buy them. Just another option to keep in mind. Maybe this is not an option for you.

RoadRunner6
10-28-2008, 02:16 PM
I usually always have music playing, and play music while I sleep. I listen to mostly Rock/ Alternative Rock/ Progressive Rock/ Indie/ Electronic/ Ambient/ Experimental/ Reggae/ Hip Hop

Would you mind revealing the brand of sleeping pills you take?

RR6 :D

exospire
10-28-2008, 04:00 PM
Haha, no sleeping pills, I just find it relaxing. I don't listen to rock or hip hop when I sleep, but I will play some coldplay, m83, sigur ros, beach house, portishead, avett brothers, or khonnor :)

exospire
10-28-2008, 04:08 PM
zepman - I really wish they had those X-LS bookshelfs too! I've read so much about them but haven't even seen what they look like. How much longer do you think until they come back? I think I'm goona email AV123 and hopefully find out

I've also been investigating 'package deals' from Elemental Designs because you can save on average about 15%

Elemental Designs A6 6T6 pair + A2 250 Sub = $586

Anyone know how the A2 250 sub compares to the Acculine Asub?

blackraven
10-28-2008, 04:14 PM
What happened to the Wharfedale Diamond 9.2's. I think that they would sound better than the Infinity Primus which have the ugliest grills I have ever seen on a speaker. My daughter has the Primus 160's and while they are a good sounding speaker for $180pr they in no way would compare to some of the Monitor Audio S2's RS2's, PSB and some of the others you are considering. The infinity's certainly are not warm sounding. The monitor audio's are.

If you can find a pair onsale, look at the NHT Classic 2's. They have a nice warm detailed sound with very nice bass. I've occasionally seen them for about $440. They and the Classic Three's blew away the paradigm monitors when compared side by side at the NHT-Paradigm dealer here in Minneapolis.

zepman1
10-29-2008, 08:25 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't be ruling out the Wharfedale's if I was you. If you are concerned about a warm sound, they are definitely not at all on the bright side. A very nice sounding speaker if that is your thing.

blackraven
10-29-2008, 09:18 AM
Here's a review on the PSB B-25 http://www.psbspeakers.com/reviews/Stereophile-Image-B25 List is $479, onsale at saturdayaudio.com for $299

zepman1
10-29-2008, 09:46 AM
I like the looks of the B-25's, they are on my short list. Great price at Saturday audio too. IF you had to buy any of the speakers you are considering without a demo first, these might be the way to go based on price and PSB's excellent reputation.

blackraven
10-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Exospire, here's the speaker you should consider buying and forgo the sub for now- http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/product.php?range=2&product=4

http://saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/all_monitor_audio_specials.htm

The Monitor Audio S6's. $579pr is a steal for a very good speaker. List is $1K.
I would much rather have this speaker over any of the other speakers you are looking at along with a sub. This will give you a much better sound overall. Buy these and get a sub at a later date for use with HT.

Here's some reviews- http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/

http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/cms/uploads/userfiles/File/reviews/silver_rs6/RS6WHFGT207a.pdf