I got dem ole stock market blues again mama!

[Swish]

What a freakin' mess. First I go through employment issues and now I'm watching my retirement funds being gutted right before my eyes. While it's true I don't 'need' the money for another 10+ years, and that I haven't realized a 'loss' unless I sell, it still hurts badly. I know I'm the only one suffering, so that helps a little.

What does this have to do with music? Not a ****ing thing, but I'm now spinning that fine blues compilation sent to me by Luvin Da Blues, and it sure fits my mood right now.

Swish - hey buddy, can you spare a dime?

[Slosh]

I'm afraid to look at my 401K. It'll bounce back long before I can access it (time to buy right now so hopefully my fund managers know what they're doing). My parents are 61 and lost $250,000 in two days! Now they say they'll wait until they're 70 to retire (they tend to panic). Their nextdoor neighbor lost $400,000. I'm just glad I locked in my financing for my new car when I did. I was pre-approved in the mid-fours and now it's over 6% for people like me with 800+ credit scores.

NP:

[Mr MidFi]

I lost more yesterday in the market than I'd earned so far this year at my job. But you're right...it's not really a loss until you sell. And I'm in it for the "long haul".

Sooner or later, it always works itself out.

NP: "Walkin' in the Wild West End" by Dire Straits

[Swish]

I'm afraid to look at my 401K. It'll bounce back long before I can access it (time to buy right now so hopefully my fund managers know what they're doing). My parents are 61 and lost $250,000 in two days! Now they say they'll wait until they're 70 to retire (they tend to panic). Their next door neighbor lost $400,000. I'm just glad I locked in my financing for my new car when I did. I was pre-approved in the mid-fours and now it's over 6% for people like me with 800+ credit scores.

NP:

...reveal how much I lost, but let's just say that it's much more than the average guy earns in a year. However, it's not really a loss....yet! The Dow was just down over 500 points but now is up 57 points, so maybe we've reached bottom already?

I know you're younger than me, so you have a lot more time to make it up, but what really sucks for me is that, with a new employer, I can't contribute to their 401K until next August, so I'm missing the greatest buying opportunity in many years.

As for your low rate on the car loan, that is a nice deal. However, the auto industry is getting battered, so car prices are going to drop and I suspect there will be some killer deals out there very soon. Mortgage rates are still low, so people like us with higher scores can still get what we need, but guidelines for conforming products have really tightened up, so the pendulum has swung far in the opposite direction. I'm sure it will come back to the center, where it should have remained, at some point in the future. I hope Wall Street and the large lenders learned a valuable lesson in all this.

Swish - lived the entire mortgage industry mess

[Duds]

I just increased my 401k contribution a few weeks ago, and may do it again. this is the the perfect time - buy low, and when the market comes back you will see incredible gains.

[Swish]

I just increased my 401k contribution a few weeks ago, and may do it again. this is the the perfect time - buy low, and when the market comes back you will see incredible gains.

...but if your company is matching your contributions, even if not 100%, you should be putting the maximum in all the time. There's just no better bargain than that, and I cannot believe how much I accumulated in a relatively short time with my ex-employer. That money just grows and grows, and I was getting dollar for dollar up to 6%, so you had better believe I was putting in 6% from the start. It's off your taxable gross (or should be if you set it up properly) and reduces your taxable income, so you're actually contributing less than that % in net dollars. But then again, you probably already knew that.

Swish - can't help myself in these matters

[bobsticks]

...but if your company is matching your contributions, even if not 100%, you should be putting the maximum in all the time. There's just no better bargain than that, and I cannot believe how much I accumulated in a relatively short time with my ex-employer. That money just grows and grows, and I was getting dollar for dollar up to 6%, so you had better believe I was putting in 6% from the start. It's off your taxable gross (or should be if you set it up properly) and reduces your taxable income, so you're actually contributing less than that % in net dollars. But then again, you probably already knew that.

Swish - can't help myself in these matters

Yes, this is so true. If you're prone to ignoring Swish, as so many are, make this post an exception. My man speaks the truth.

I'm thinking the next six months ain't bad time to start rolling cds if you start tomorrow. After that, I'm looking into publicly traded issues of cemeteries, mortuaries and crematoriums.

[02audionoob]

My losses currently exceed a year's salary. It's disheartening. I only wish I had the power to see the future and could've bailed out. All these years I've been almost reckless with risk. It's been so good it's like betting with the house's money. And now...kicked in the groin repeatedly. My best investments have been REITs and they were pummeled mercilessly, yesterday. But one good things comes of this...buying oppportunity if you have the stomach for it.

It also gives you a dose of perspective. After all, the daily losses far exceed the cost of a nice preamp.

[kexodusc]

Yes, this is so true. If you're prone to ignoring Swish, as so many are, make this post an exception. My man speaks the truth.

I'm thinking the next six months ain't bad time to start rolling cds if you start tomorrow. After that, I'm looking into publicly traded issues of cemeteries, mortuaries and crematoriums.
Ahhh...death care.
The Lowen Group. I hit my first employment bonus because of this company. I also missed my 4 year target largely because of them.
The younger kexodusc was right - you can always count on the fact that people will eventually die...
The older kexodusc has since learned that most people don't plan, and especially don't pay for this inevitabilty...

Be mindful, padiwan.

[Swish]

Yes, this is so true. I base most of my decisions on the advice of Swish, my guru and our resident genius. You would be wise to heed his sage advice, culled from his many years of successful business practices.Swish is the man!

You're making me blush...or that could be the pale ale.

Swish - helping people do the right thing since 1982

[bobsticks]

You're making me blush...or that could be the pale ale.

Swish - helping people do the right thing since 1982


...or it could be:

<div><object width="220" height="170"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k2JUU4e43LqnQ72AE9&related=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k2JUU4e43LqnQ72AE9&related=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="220" height="170" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd8hl_dirty-deeds-done-with-sheepacdc_fun">Dirty Deeds Done With Sheep-AC/DC</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/Huskrcrt">Huskrcrt</a></i></div>

[JohnMichael]

Sad times when you receive your statement and you celebrate that your investments have only lost a little over $2000. Of course there may be more loss to come.

[Duds]

my company matches 50% up to 6%. i dont make a lot of money, so i am contributing what i can. right now my total contribution, with the company match, is 15%.


...but if your company is matching your contributions, even if not 100%, you should be putting the maximum in all the time. There's just no better bargain than that, and I cannot believe how much I accumulated in a relatively short time with my ex-employer. That money just grows and grows, and I was getting dollar for dollar up to 6%, so you had better believe I was putting in 6% from the start. It's off your taxable gross (or should be if you set it up properly) and reduces your taxable income, so you're actually contributing less than that % in net dollars. But then again, you probably already knew that.

Swish - can't help myself in these matters

[GMichael]

My company throws in 0.06 for every 1.00 I put in. I'd like to throw in more but right now, things are tight. We still manage to toss in about $75 a week. It's not the $200+ I used to invest before we bought the house, but at least it's something. If we had more funds, now would be when I'd put in extra.

The people out there who do have extra money will be making a killing when this turns around.

[Swish]

my company matches 50% up to 6%. i dont make a lot of money, so i am contributing what i can. right now my total contribution, with the company match, is 15%.

It doesn't matter if you're not making a lot of money. If you're putting 15% of your income, with the company match, into the 401K, you're doing better than most people. 10% is recommended, so you're ahead of the curve, especially if you're well diversified and into the growth stocks and not in 'stable value' types of funds. Yes, they've been hit hard of late, but they'll be back and have returned just over 10% on average since the Great Depression. I'm betting you're in the right funds and will realize your efforts as the years roll by. Any argument against this is futile because it works. Period.

Swish

[Duds]

thanks! Our company uses t. rowe price, they have strategies set up according to your retirement year. Obviously since i have a ways to go, i am in their most aggressive plan. I'm going to try to hammer it as much as I can with the market so low.


It doesn't matter if you're not making a lot of money. If you're putting 15% of your income, with the company match, into the 401K, you're doing better than most people. 10% is recommended, so you're ahead of the curve, especially if you're well diversified and into the growth stocks and not in 'stable value' types of funds. Yes, they've been hit hard of late, but they'll be back and have returned just over 10% on average since the Great Depression. I'm betting you're in the right funds and will realize your efforts as the years roll by. Any argument against this is futile because it works. Period.

Swish

[Swish]

thanks! Our company uses t. rowe price, they have strategies set up according to your retirement year. Obviously since i have a ways to go, i am in their most aggressive plan. I'm going to try to hammer it as much as I can with the market so low.

T. Rowe Price has a bunch of highly rated 'retirement' funds, and was recognized by Kiplinger’s Personal Finance in November 2007 for having the “Best Target-Date Retirement Funds” because of their high allocation to stocks and low expenses.

Stick to the plan and you'll be amazed how these things take off. Well, perhaps you already know. I've counseled customers so many times over the years about putting more into their 401Ks, and most of them listen. I remember one guy who was nearly 50 who told me he was only putting in 2%, with a dollar for dollar company match, because 'the guy's down at the plant told me it doesn't add up to much'. I read him the riot act and, just a couple years later, he called to thank me for turning him around. It really does work.

Swish

[GMichael]

thanks! Our company uses t. rowe price, they have strategies set up according to your retirement year. Obviously since i have a ways to go, i am in their most aggressive plan. I'm going to try to hammer it as much as I can with the market so low.

T Rowe Price is very good. I have several 401k's left over from old jobs. I left them alone to be more diverse. The T Rowe account is the only one that didn't loose money last quarter.

[Duds]

yeah thank god we switched to them. the last company we had managing our 401ks was a joke. T. Rowe is very good, they send out newsletters with great info, and when you call them they are always very helpful.

thanks for the compliments Swish!


T. Rowe Price has a bunch of highly rated 'retirement' funds, and was recognized by Kiplinger’s Personal Finance in November 2007 for having the “Best Target-Date Retirement Funds” because of their high allocation to stocks and low expenses.

Stick to the plan and you'll be amazed how these things take off. Well, perhaps you already know. I've counseled customers so many times over the years about putting more into their 401Ks, and most of them listen. I remember one guy who was nearly 50 who told me he was only putting in 2%, with a dollar for dollar company match, because 'the guy's down at the plant told me it doesn't add up to much'. I read him the riot act and, just a couple years later, he called to thank me for turning him around. It really does work.

Swish

[ForeverAutumn]

Over all we haven't had the troubles in Canada that you're having in the US but we're certainly seeing the effects here. My investments are down about 25% overall but I'm seeing this as a buying opportunity. I picked up a few stocks last week that I think are heavily undervalued right now. Time will tell if I'm right.

My company pension plan forces me to invest 5% of my income each month and the company matches it. Once I've been with the company for 5 years it will increase to 7% so it's an excellent plan. I've got at least 20 years to retirement so I'm not concerned about the drop in my investments, in fact I see it as a good thing for the short term as I can buy more units for my money. It's the drop in my shorter term open funds that hurts more.

On another bright side, the Bank of Canada dropped their interest rate last week, which meant that our variable mortgage rate dropped .25%. That's helpful too.

Although I'm looking on the bright side, I would like to see things stabilize soon. The thought of a global recession is very unsettling and Hubby and I are trying to curb our spending and increase our savings for now, just in case.

We are also having a federal election tomorrow and the results of that election will certainly affect our economy and the stability of the country. The polls show that 48% are still undecided so anything can happen.

[Stone]

I know I'm the only one suffering, so that helps a little.


Love it.

[Swish]

Love it.

...until I went back and read my original post. I really have to do a better job at reviewing my posts before hitting that Submit button.

Nice catch!

Swish - oblivious to his surroundings

[Swish]

Over all we haven't had the troubles in Canada that you're having in the US but we're certainly seeing the effects here. My investments are down about 25% overall but I'm seeing this as a buying opportunity. I picked up a few stocks last week that I think are heavily undervalued right now. Time will tell if I'm right.

My company pension plan forces me to invest 5% of my income each month and the company matches it. Once I've been with the company for 5 years it will increase to 7% so it's an excellent plan. I've got at least 20 years to retirement so I'm not concerned about the drop in my investments, in fact I see it as a good thing for the short term as I can buy more units for my money. It's the drop in my shorter term open funds that hurts more.

On another bright side, the Bank of Canada dropped their interest rate last week, which meant that our variable mortgage rate dropped .25%. That's helpful too.

Although I'm looking on the bright side, I would like to see things stabilize soon. The thought of a global recession is very unsettling and Hubby and I are trying to curb our spending and increase our savings for now, just in case.

We are also having a federal election tomorrow and the results of that election will certainly affect our economy and the stability of the country. The polls show that 48% are still undecided so anything can happen.

...the case of market risk, and that's the good news. If the market in general is down, it always comes back at some point, or, at least, it has every time so far. If you can avoid the turkey's that are totally failing, when the losses become 'investment risk' (think Enron), then you'll be just fine.

I think it's funny that your company 'forces' you to invest 5%, but it's also a good thing, especially since they match it. You can't beat that with a stick. And the market drop simply means you're buying at lower prices and, when it bounces back (like today in the US), you'll make out like a bandit.

Swish

[ForeverAutumn]

I didn't mean "forces" in a bad way. We're a financial services company so I think that there's even more of a responsibility to ensure that our employees are protected with good benefits.

Dollar Cost Averaging is the name of the game, my friend. It protects you in bad times and in good. :)

[kexodusc]

On another bright side, the Bank of Canada dropped their interest rate last week, which meant that our variable mortgage rate dropped .25%. That's helpful too.
Bank rates dropped twice (last week), your mortgage should have lowered by 40-50 basis pts depending which bank you deal with...
Another rate cut expected on the 21st.

This was our 3rd go around, but my first variable rate mortgage. It's like Christmas every time the rate drops. I'm just hoping it's doesn't have the polar opposite effect when the rates do eventually climb...:yikes:


Although I'm looking on the bright side, I would like to see things stabilize soon. The thought of a global recession is very unsettling and Hubby and I are trying to curb our spending and increase our savings for now, just in case.
Part of the problem is that the media has consumers scared beyond belief. It's sort of a double edged sword. The financially responsible, good consumers are too scared to buy, the debt loaded over-spenders however seem to be the beneficiaries of a lot of recent bank actions and are almost being given a false sense of security.


We are also having a federal election tomorrow and the results of that election will certainly affect our economy and the stability of the country. The polls show that 48% are still undecided so anything can happen.I didn't mean "forces" in a bad way.
Any predictions...this is my first time voting in a Canadian federal election. I made the cut in 2006, but my wife and I were on our honeymoon and we botched that.

When I was younger and dumber, I choose not to vote for Gore or Bush out of indifference. :out:


Dollar Cost Averaging is the name of the game, my friend. It protects you in bad times and in good. :)
[shameless rant]
While I'm a strong advocate of periodic, incremental investing (which is also lump sum investing), as a student of economics and a financial analyst, the empirical evidence overwhelmingly shows DCA has its pitfalls in both expected return and risk vs other simple investment strategies such as lump sum investing and balanced portolio approaches. When I worked on the "sell" side, I was disgusted to learn (fresh out of school and likely a bit naive) that the industry actually knows this! As the marketing department pointed out, the institutions that sell financial products receive higher premiums when transactions are smaller, and more frequent. No question that they are the biggest winners in DCA.
[end rant]

[ForeverAutumn]

Bank rates dropped twice (last week), your mortgage should have lowered by 40-50 basis pts depending which bank you deal with...
Another rate cut expected on the 21st.

This was our 3rd go around, but my first variable rate mortgage. It's like Christmas every time the rate drops. I'm just hoping it's doesn't have the polar opposite effect when the rates do eventually climb...:yikes:

Yes, you're right. How did I miss that second drop? Our rate has dropped .5%. We're paying 3.5% now. You gotta love that! Although we're paying prime less 75bps, we always make our mortgage payment as though we were paying, at least, prime. That allows us a minimum of three increases before we see our payment actually change, and it lowers our principal faster.


Any predictions...this is my first time voting in a Canadian federal election. I made the cut in 2006, but my wife and I were on our honeymoon and we botched that.

I think that it'll be a close race between the Conservatives and the Liberals. Elizabeth May has done a great job for the Green Party and they'll get a few seats this time 'round, but it'll be NDP seats that they win. Either way, I expect another minority gov't so it doesn't really matter who wins as we'll likely be back at the polls in another year or two. :rolleyes:

I think that the Conservatives will win. Although nobody has mentioned it, I don't think that a lot of Canadians are ready to forgive the Liberals for the Sponsorship Scandal. And I think that people are worried about the tax increases that will come with a Liberal win. This is, of course, just my prediction. I have no inside information.

[kexodusc]

I think that it'll be a close race between the Conservatives and the Liberals. Elizabeth May has done a great job for the Green Party and they'll get a few seats this time 'round, but it'll be NDP seats that they win. Either way, I expect another minority gov't so it doesn't really matter who wins as we'll likely be back at the polls in another year or two. :rolleyes:

I think that the Conservatives will win. Although nobody has mentioned it, I don't think that a lot of Canadians are ready to forgive the Liberals for the Sponsorship Scandal. And I think that people are worried about the tax increases that will come with a Liberal win. This is, of course, just my prediction. I have no inside information.

Thanks. I have observed that people seem to be incredibly tired and bored of politics in this election. A real sense of indifference the likes of which I've never seen for an election at any level. I wonder what voter turnout will be like?

I would tend to agree with your prediction, a Conservative minority. Given that this election was called because "parliament wasn't working" that outcome would pretty much equal status quo. To that extent, I'm not sure what it solves, except it will cost a billion dollars of taxpayer money at a time when that is not such a good idea. Politics aside, I hope that point isn't lost on the public, and I hope the next time a government passes fixed-date legislation, it means something.

[ForeverAutumn]

Thanks. I have observed that people seem to be incredibly tired and bored of politics in this election. A real sense of indifference the likes of which I've never seen for an election at any level. I wonder what voter turnout will be like?

I would tend to agree with your prediction, a Conservative minority. Given that this election was called because "parliament wasn't working" that outcome would pretty much equal status quo. To that extent, I'm not sure what it solves, except it will cost a billion dollars of taxpayer money at a time when that is not such a good idea. Politics aside, I hope that point isn't lost on the public, and I hope the next time a government passes fixed-date legislation, it means something.

I agree with you. People are tired of not having anyone to vote for that they feel they can trust. And, I think that people are tired of not feeling like their vote counts...which is the fallout of several years of minority governments. And I think that people agree with you that things will remain status quo, so what's the point. I expect that the Green Party will win a few seats this time around as a result of their higher profile (being allowed into the debate) and in protest. What we need are new party leaders all around. Some fresh faces and new ideas!

I agree with Harper's decision to call an election. At that time it looked like we might end up with a Conservative majority. But the world has changed in just six short weeks. The economy wasn't yet as unstable as it is today. And although I think that fixed date elections are a good idea, I don't agree with keeping that fixed date during a minority government. I don't think it's good for the country to have a government that has no power.

I'll be voting Conservative tonight, but honestly, I'd be happy with any majority win. We've had minority governments for too long and we need a strong government to move forward.

[kexodusc]

I agree with Harper's decision to call an election. At that time it looked like we might end up with a Conservative majority. But the world has changed in just six short weeks. The economy wasn't yet as unstable as it is today. And although I think that fixed date elections are a good idea, I don't agree with keeping that fixed date during a minority government. I don't think it's good for the country to have a government that has no power.

I'll be voting Conservative tonight, but honestly, I'd be happy with any majority win. We've had minority governments for too long and we need a strong government to move forward.
Yep, a real sense of mistrust is right. I don't know how I'll vote. I have personally met and greatly dislike the Liberal and Conservative candidates in my county or whatever it's called. Arrogant asses. I don't really know much about the other parties platforms. What Canadians call conservative, I was calling Democrat a few years ago, that's kind of funny.

As for fixed dates - It would seem a party would still rule until it is defeated, even under fixed date law. You could engineer your own downfall via confidence votes on all motions, or rule as a majority if the opposition backed down. It should work but what do I know.

But I'll figure it out sometime today...

[ForeverAutumn]

Yep, a real sense of mistrust is right. I don't know how I'll vote. I have personally met and greatly dislike the Liberal and Conservative candidates in my county or whatever it's called. Arrogant asses. I don't really know much about the other parties platforms. What Canadians call conservative, I was calling Democrat a few years ago, that's kind of funny.

As for fixed dates - It would seem a party would still rule until it is defeated, even under fixed date law. You could engineer your own downfall via confidence votes on all motions, or rule as a majority if the opposition backed down. It should work but what do I know.

But I'll figure it out sometime today...

It's a political "riding". I actually like both our Liberal and Conservative candidates. I don't pay attention to the others.

Well, good luck figuring it out. It will be an interesting evening one way or the other. I don't think that I've ever seen an election with such a high per cent of "undecideds".