Is Country Music becoming a parity? [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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Mr Peabody
10-03-2008, 09:33 PM
Ok, I always like music and my parents were into Country so that's what I grew up on until I was able to get my hands on my own radio, so I have an appreciation, or I've been deep seeded brain washed and never have totally been deprogrammed even with all the R&R I've consumed. We all know for several years Country music has been getting further and further away from what anyone would recognize as Country music. Now you have Jessica Simpson singing Country on the Grand Ole Opry, Darius Rucker has a solo Country album out with a #1 song, what the hell is going on and is it too late, is the genre gone forever? On the internet and HD radio you can catch some "Classic Country" stations but regular FM Country seems to shy away from what they are supposed to be. Did Country evolve into another kind of commercial genre that replaced real Country. I hate to put anyone down but the fact that a commercial hype machine can sell this slop, who are the brainless zombies who buy it? I mean it's like any has been or no talent name can dorn a cowboy hat and become a Country star. Man, if I was GQ, I'd head down there myself, yee-hah.

I don't know, maybe Country is behind. When I think of all the off shoots of basic Rock-n-Roll from Pop, to Metal, to Punk, Grunge, Alternative etc. I'm sure some one has said, "that's not R&R". This sort of happened when Grunge broke so big, all the sudden on the radio that's all there was, gone was all the "Big Hair Metal" I was so enjoying at the time. I was digging the Nirvana and Pearl Jam but I had to retreat into the album collection for some serious hits of what I thought was "regular Rock".

Anyway if you can make any coherency out of this stream of thought just chime in.

emesbee
10-04-2008, 04:20 AM
If anyone ever asked me, I would have said that I don't like country music (ie: "we play both kinds of music, country AND western"). Well, I don't like the Garth Brooks style of country music, anyway. Truth is, though, that country music crosses into the likes of jazz, blues, rock and roll etc. A lot of the early Rolling Stones material has a strong country feel to it, for example. There is also bluegrass, which has its origins in traditional Irish music (and I love Irish music).

Actually, I think that bluegrass is the real country music. Its much more honest and down to earth than some of the over-hyped stuff that has been coming out lately.

02audionoob
10-04-2008, 06:00 AM
Seems like the old-school rockers must have thought hair bands weren't real rock music, too. It's the natural course of things. Music might be an art form, but radio is first and foremost a business. That's what FM radio is supposed to be. Sure...Jessica Simpson's country album is weak. But her label is just trying to sell the stuff, not make art. I think the key to enjoying country music is to tune out the tripe and find what you like.

Slosh
10-04-2008, 06:41 AM
New mainstream country does have parity with new mainstream pop in that they both suck, I guess.

To me it has always been a parody of itself. I do like me some alt-country though.


NP:

Davey
10-04-2008, 10:09 AM
I agree, modern country is great party music. Especially the stuff with all the wailing guitars, and the "so moronic they're almost funny" lyrics. Never gets old, even though it sometimes seems to be the same song over and over and over and ... :)

Or wait, maybe I misread this one. Let me start over ...

I agree, country music has become a parody of itself, almost as if all of the players are part of some exaggerated SNL skit. Surely they realize? No one in the country business takes it seriously anymore. :)

Or wait, maybe I misread this one. Let me start over ...

I agree, country music artists have moved into a sort of parity, where none stand out from the pack, all playing (or maybe pandering is more accurate) to the middle, not caring to be unique or wishing to rattle the cage. One big yawn :)

Mr Peabody
10-04-2008, 10:42 AM
Good point to keep things inperspective, music and radio is a business. Country has mimmicked the Pop biz where nothing is art any more and an artist may put one album out make every one a few bucks and never be heard of again.

Too bad they weren't smart enough to think of Jessica Simpson a long time ago, imagine the hype her album would have gotten if it coincided with the release of The Dukes of Hazard.

02audionoob
10-04-2008, 11:43 AM
I'm a fan of female country singers, but the real talents are probably not on the radio. I don't know for sure, since I don't listen to radio. But through local concerts, Austin City Limits, GAC cable TV channel, YouTube, Rhapsody and other sources I've found some really enjoyable country music by the likes of Kelly Willis, Rebecca Lynn Howard, Nanci Griffith, Shelby Lynne, Allison Moorer, Chalee Tennison, Alison Krauss, Rhonda Vincent, Rosanne Cash, Linda Davis, Trisha Yearwood, Chely Wright, Patty Loveless, Emmylou Harris, Tanya Tucker, Ashton Shepherd, Danni Leigh, Heather Myles...and the list goes on - and crosses into alt-country, of course.

Mr Peabody
10-04-2008, 02:22 PM
Yip, I've got some of that stuff. You might also add Mindy Smith and Patty Griffin, although I don't know if they exactly are Country, closer to Alt C or Americana.

Auricauricle
10-04-2008, 03:21 PM
Although I too think that Country Music today is indiscernible from the music that composed in its heyday, I will assert that it is a genre that is highly derivative and has always been in a state of evolution and development that characterizes any great musical style. As you are aware, Country Music's elements: Folk, Celtic, Western European, etc., intermingled with other styles of the time that were vying for legitimacy on the airwaves and the hearts and souls of movie watchers and radio listeners.

Country Music has been variously applied to the "hillbilly" music of Appalachia, and Elvis Pressley and others, whose rock-and-roll was itself informed by African-American rhythms and forms, did much to successfully bridge the ever narrowing gap between Country and "Popular" categories.

In the meantime, Country Music was not only an Appalachian/Celtic phenomenon, but was also informed by German and Czech settlers' music that was developed in Texas and fronteir neighbors. Listen to Dvorak's New World Symphony, which is full of Negro Spiritual and Eastern European styles that intermingle together in a way that some Country Music listeners as very disarmingly familiar.

By the end of World War II, country music encapsulated a wide range of subgenres, from Cowboy Country, to Appalachian Country and so forth that all intermingled to create that sound that we call Country today. Country so continues with elements that are as far removed from country as one can imagine--whether its Chet Atkins playing a few Country licks while he plays "Summertime" or Dire Straits putting a few Appalachian riffs into their oeuvre--that's just the nature of the beast.

Having said that, I think that your assessment of country being a parody of itself is broad but not inaccurate. Despite their affiliation, some musicians who call themselves Country should know that Country is more than jeans, boots and a buckle....

emesbee
10-04-2008, 05:42 PM
I think it is possible to get too hung up on labels when we talk about music. There are times when I've listened to a song and thought, "that's country, no wait a minute, its blues, er, no, its rock and roll, but then again maybe its jazz, or even swing, oh what the hell, its just music and I like the song anyway".

Auricauricle
10-04-2008, 05:48 PM
That's pretty much it....I hear that the Country Scene Downunder s'pposed to be jumping. What say you?

emesbee
10-04-2008, 06:01 PM
Country music does seem to have a bit of a following here. The thing about it that I don't like, though, is when Australian country performers try to sound like Americans, even down to putting on the accent. (Please, I am not having a go at Americans by saying that. American accents are fine, if you are American.) Thankfully, though, it is not all about imitation. There is certainly a distinctive Australian flavour to quite a bit of the music being produced here. Paul Kelly, for example (I don't know how well known he is in the US) has a reputation as a great singer/songwriter here, is very distinctly Australian. Many of his songs have a country feel to them, and he performs these days with a bluegrass band.

Mr Peabody
10-04-2008, 06:08 PM
I think it is possible to get too hung up on labels when we talk about music. There are times when I've listened to a song and thought, "that's country, no wait a minute, its blues, er, no, its rock and roll, but then again maybe its jazz, or even swing, oh what the hell, its just music and I like the song anyway".

That must have been a hell of a song :)

What do the Austrailians think of and classify Keith Urban as?

emesbee
10-04-2008, 06:15 PM
Keith Urban would probably be considered a Country artist here. Can't really say that I've really listened much to him though myself. I think he is quite popular here.

emesbee
10-04-2008, 06:27 PM
This might be a bit off track, as I'm not sure if you would call this album country, but there is a new CD out by a blind aboriginal performer, Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu, called simply Gurrumul. I bought a copy recently, and I think its terrific. He has a great voice, very melodious, and sings all the songs in his native aboriginal language. Well worth a listen, if you can get a hold of it. (I'm not sure if its available in the US.)

Auricauricle
10-05-2008, 08:56 AM
Just listened to a couple of Gurrumul's songs a moment ago...What a beautiful voice! I listen to quite a lot of African music: Wasis Djop, Selif Keita, Henry Dikongue, etc...Guess I'm going to have to include Aborigine music to the mix!

Now, if I could just master this diji....

Thanks for the recommendation!

Swish
10-05-2008, 09:00 AM
I agree, modern country is great party music. Especially the stuff with all the wailing guitars, and the "so moronic they're almost funny" lyrics. Never gets old, even though it sometimes seems to be the same song over and over and over and ... :)

Or wait, maybe I misread this one. Let me start over ...

I agree, country music has become a parody of itself, almost as if all of the players are part of some exaggerated SNL skit. Surely they realize? No one in the country business takes it seriously anymore. :)

Or wait, maybe I misread this one. Let me start over ...

I agree, country music artists have moved into a sort of parity, where none stand out from the pack, all playing (or maybe pandering is more accurate) to the middle, not caring to be unique or wishing to rattle the cage. One big yawn :)

...but yours did the trick. :p


Swish - parity animal

Auricauricle
10-05-2008, 11:27 AM
Waxing a bit cynical today, Swish, Old Sport?

Swish
10-05-2008, 11:52 AM
Waxing a bit cynical today, Swish, Old Sport?

I had a rather unpleasant altercation at the Old 97s show last night, and woke up in a foul mood. It's lingering still, so let me know if there's any ball-busting I can do for you.

Swish

Auricauricle
10-05-2008, 12:13 PM
Thanks. I have my own nutcracker handy....

Old 97s?

bobsticks
10-05-2008, 12:24 PM
Country music is becoming parrot-ty.

bobsticks
10-05-2008, 12:33 PM
I had a rather unpleasant altercation at the Old 97s show last night, and woke up in a foul mood. It's lingering still, so let me know if there's any ball-busting I can do for you.

Swish

Did you have to show them punk kids who's the boss? Or mebbe some redneck security guard was gettin' heavy-handed and you had to lay the smack down.

...hhmmnn, bouncer made fun of the Eagles?...attacked by T.O.?

C'mon, ol' sport let 'er rip. Inquiring minds wanna know.

Swish
10-05-2008, 12:52 PM
Did you have to show them punk kids who's the boss?

C'mon, ol' sport let 'er rip. Inquiring minds wanna know.

The Chameleon Club is a small, but fun, place to see bands. Some shows are all ages, some are 21 and up (Paul Westerberg was in that category), and some have a 'dry' downstairs for the u-21 crowd while the upstairs has a decent bar on the patio as well as one inside, and we almost always stay upstairs as the floor downstairs is SRO and gets quite crowded, as it was last night.

The odd thing was, they figured on an older crowd, so U-21 was switched to upstairs since it's smaller and the bar was downstairs. Since we all wanted a few pints we decided to stay downstairs. When the Old 97s came out, we stayed pretty much io the back to watch but were getting jostled quite a bit from people trying to get a better view. My wife was getting ticked off because she kept losing her view of the band (she's all of 5'1" while I'm a foot taller). One guy was coming out and basically pushed her out of his way and gave me a slight shove, with so much as an 'excuse me', so I turned around, grabbed him by the front of his shirt, and pushed him about 10' or so with an angry look on my face. Some other guy kind of told me to back off and to take it easy because people were only trying to get by us. I told him that this guy was rude and shoved my wife and pushed me in the back, so he got what he deserved. He was a bit cocky and I more or less told him to shut the f*** up because I wasn't in the mood for his crap.

Needless to say, it will be the last time I stay on the 1st floor for a show their. This was my first and last time.

Swish - not going to take it any more

bobsticks
10-05-2008, 01:06 PM
Swish - not going to take it any more

Clearly you learned nothing about the spirit of peace from your now-reformed Twisted Sister bretheren. I can see it now, you and Eddie Ojeda on one side of the bar and Dee and Mark Mendoza on the other...and all the shiny people over here and all the happy people over there...

But, that does suck. I have a preference of not going to anywhere that's "all ages" or feels it necessary to have a metal detector at the door. Doesn't always work out, so it's not a rule, but a definite preference.

Auricauricle
10-05-2008, 01:09 PM
Parrot-ty....

The Crackers!

3-LockBox
10-05-2008, 01:28 PM
Country music has done nothing but ape pop music for the last 15 or 20 years. First, you had southern-rock wannabes like The Tractors, Kentucky Headhunters, and BR-549 and the like become country-ish acts when doing the rock-n-roll thing failed to pan out. You had an act like Garth Brooks become the biggest selling concert draw and record seller in Country music history. Brooks' act was so dynamic that it raised the bar for country music performers as well as fans' expectations. No longer was it OK to pay money for a show where Randy Travis or George Straight or Clint Black stands around like a statue for 90 minutes. Then Brooks' started flirting with other music styles, first within the confines of country (which worked), then branching out into another personna, Chris Gaines (which failed). Brooks' fans hated that much "artistic expression" and turned away from him for the most part, but now you have hippity-hop acts like Big & Rich.

Country could only benefit from the presence of a Darius Rucker, and if they're stupid enough to buy Simpson as a country act... well, they let Kid Rock pretend to be a country star for a while, along with karma addled Sheryl Crow (who by the way will eventually become romantically entwined with Garth Brooks, and kill him). Country will welcome anyone that they think can move product. They'll manufacture "talent" if they have to (Alabama was their equivalent to The Monkeys).

Country music will always change with the times, or at least lag behind it by 5 years, but in order for country music to closely resemble its past, it'd have to stop being so disrespetful of it. Country eats it elderly. Oh, there's a few old acts it likes to prop up, but not after spending years or even decades pushing them away. Like Johnny Cash - he was dropped by his lable and couldn't even get county fair gigs. He was washed up as far as country music execs were concerned. Then Cash became some sort of kitschy coffee house rock personna, via Rick Ruben. Of course country was quick to trumpet Cash's return to the fold with his new found revival, but you never heard a new Cash tune on a country station. Same with Loretta Lynn's collaboration with Jack White. It was as country as any album she'd ever done, but country pablum stations would rather play Save A Horse Ride A Cowboy or Honkytonk Bedonkidonk a hundred times a day, than honor one of its biggest names of the past, whether the music warrants the attention or not. And the think tanks that churn out all those terrible catch phrase songs only want to write for young acts - and those same think tanks don't have much appreciation for those who write their own songs.

So yes, there is parity within country music in that their are fewer superstars, and there is also parody, but country music has always been a parody of itself, and always will be. You could tout alt-country, but commercial country and alt-country doesn't want to be in the same room with each other.

bobsticks
10-05-2008, 01:35 PM
Oh sure, T., come along with a serious and well-thought historical perspective for post, why dontcha...








Parrot-ty....

The Crackers!

um...If you must, I prefer "honky" thank you very little.

Auricauricle
10-05-2008, 02:26 PM
You made some interesting points, T, but I don't wholly agree with you on the "Country eats its elderly" phrase. Emmylou Harris is getting up there, but her music remains very focused and true; Chet Atkins was pretty much left alone--yes, they were a little "kitchy" sounding at times ("Summertime", in Sneakin' Around, e.g.); and I seem to recall seeing Willie Nelson kicking it up, every now and then....

Still , I just wonder if Country had been a little more careful about defining itself it wouldn't have to narrow its scope and keep all these dadblasted interlopers outta the studio!

Swish
10-05-2008, 03:25 PM
Thanks. I have my own nutcracker handy....

Old 97s?

... with roots in Texas. Lead singer and front man Rhett Miller have recorded 11 cds so far, including the one that make them semi-famous, Fight Songs, back in 1999. They played at least one stand out track from that record last night called Busted Afternoon, and another that many on RR will know. Timebomb, an excellent tune from their 1997 release called Too Far to Care. The show was pretty darned fine, although that one episode put a damper on things.

Swish

02audionoob
10-05-2008, 03:51 PM
Some fine country....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMTqCYUWYaQ

Mr Peabody
10-05-2008, 03:52 PM
No, 3LB was right on. Emmy Lou and Willie might still be doing their thing but they ain't getting any air play.

Talking about the power of radio, Johnny Cash can't get played on a Country station but he still gets an occasional spin on our Alternative station.

02audionoob
10-05-2008, 04:04 PM
Emmy Lou and Willie might still be doing their thing but they ain't getting any air play.


If I remember correctly, Emmy never did get air play...so the current state of things isn't new on that front. She's magnificent, though. I saw her in Dallas during the Spyboy tour. Our seats were in a little balcony/box that was so close it like it was hanging over the stage. Such near proximity to greatness was a real treat.

Auricauricle
10-05-2008, 06:36 PM
Don't know if I'm losing my head, but I could have sworn that a duet Emmylou did with Mark Knopfler made it on the airwaves not too long ago....Nice that you saw her in action. That pleasure has yet to descend upon my poor, decrepit soul!

Talk about a parody: Radio....I still wouldn't mind owning and operating an AM station out in the middle of nowhere....

Mr Peabody
10-05-2008, 06:47 PM
That has always been a fantasy of mine is to have my own radio station and for it to at least make enough money to keep it going.

emesbee
10-06-2008, 04:26 AM
Just listened to a couple of Gurrumul's songs a moment ago...What a beautiful voice! I listen to quite a lot of African music: Wasis Djop, Selif Keita, Henry Dikongue, etc...Guess I'm going to have to include Aborigine music to the mix!

Now, if I could just master this diji....

Thanks for the recommendation!

I think my favourite track on the album is Djarimirri. This is only the second recording by an aboriginal artist that I have bought. (The other being a Kev Carmody CD.) I think what makes this album stand out for me is the the combination of the melodic character of his voice with the use of his native language. That melodic character is something I hadn't previously heard in indigenous music. (And there is not a didjeridoo to be heard on the album, thank goodness!)

3-LockBox
10-06-2008, 04:32 AM
Emmy Lou and Knopfler get airplay...on AOR and adult contemporary stations that I know of. And you might hear Willie on a country station if he does a duet with someone hip and current.

But yer right its been this way for a while Auricauricle; country music, for at least the last 20 years, has always seemed to want to distance itself from its past, always striving to be "current", when in reallity it can't no matter how hard it tries.

But, I nitpick. It ain't like I can say I'd listen one way or another. I grew up in a place and time when top-20 country and top-40 pop shared the same stations. I got tired of both a long time ago.

Auricauricle
10-06-2008, 05:24 AM
You can thank Casey Casem for that!

Hmmm....You think the nation's palate has been developed by "America's Top Forty"? That's a scary thought!

Not sure if Country is trying to stay current; the genre just likes to beg, borrow or steal...:)