LFE sounds anemic with high res codecs in Bluray but fine with DD or DTS [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

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JeffKnob
09-26-2008, 10:31 AM
I have my Panasonic BD10A Bluray player connected to my Yamaha RXV1400 receiver using the multichannel in/out. The bluray player obviously does the decoding of the high res codecs. When I listen to a bluray movie the sound is very clear and there is a definite improvement over the normal Dolby Digital or DTS however the bass doesn't have the same punch. I can switch from getting the sound via multichannel in to using the optical in and let the receiver just decode the normal Dolby Digital or DTS signal. Using the receiver to decode and do all of the bass management results in a much more powerful and cleaner LFE. I am not sure what is going on.

Can there be just too many adjustments being made by two different machines that cause problems? Maybe both the bluray player and my receiver are doing bass management and that is causing an issue.

L.J.
09-26-2008, 11:47 AM
I have my Panasonic BD10A Bluray player connected to my Yamaha RXV1400 receiver using the multichannel in/out. The bluray player obviously does the decoding of the high res codecs. When I listen to a bluray movie the sound is very clear and there is a definite improvement over the normal Dolby Digital or DTS however the bass doesn't have the same punch. I can switch from getting the sound via multichannel in to using the optical in and let the receiver just decode the normal Dolby Digital or DTS signal. Using the receiver to decode and do all of the bass management results in a much more powerful and cleaner LFE. I am not sure what is going on.

Can there be just too many adjustments being made by two different machines that cause problems? Maybe both the bluray player and my receiver are doing bass management and that is causing an issue.


Here's an interesting thread from AVS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147) that gets into the subject of what's going on. I'm not sure how accurate the info is but it seems to be well explained. I think Mr. Peabody experienced the same thing and there may be a thread somewhere around here with more info.

Here's the thread Mr. Peabody started:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=26922

JeffKnob
09-26-2008, 01:51 PM
Here's an interesting thread from AVS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147) that gets into the subject of what's going on. I'm not sure how accurate the info is but it seems to be well explained. I think Mr. Peabody experienced the same thing and there may be a thread somewhere around here with more info.

Here's the thread Mr. Peabody started:
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=26922

That sounds about what is ailing my system. I am thinking about just upgrading my receiver and bluray player so that all of the processing is handled in the receiver so the levels all work out properly. I like the Onkyo SR606 with the Panasonic BD30 bluray.

L.J.
09-26-2008, 02:37 PM
That sounds about what is ailing my system. I am thinking about just upgrading my receiver and bluray player so that all of the processing is handled in the receiver so the levels all work out properly. I like the Onkyo SR606 with the Panasonic BD30 bluray.

You could probably just get away with a new AVR(Onkyo & Denon..newer Yammies allow you to adjust the LFE on MC analog) but I notice your still missing out on DTSMA since your Panny can't decode or bitstream it, so you do have alot to gain by upgrading. Put your current Panny in another room and your all set.

The 606 is a great choice. I'm thinking it doesn't have preouts though if you have external amps. If you do get a new BR player the BD30 is fine as long as you don't care about BD-profile extra stuff & internal decoding. It will bitstream to an HDMI 1.3 AVR so you'll be ok.

I'd definitely take a look at the PS3 as well. It makes one heck of a BR player. Very strong support from Sony, fast load up times, very good upconversion of SD, tons of adjustments and flexibility. Makes a great media center as well.

JeffKnob
09-26-2008, 02:45 PM
You could probably just get away with a new AVR(Onkyo & Denon..newer Yammies allow you to adjust the LFE on MC analog) but I notice your still missing out on DTSMA since your Panny can't decode or bitstream it, so you do have alot to gain by upgrading. Put your current Panny in another room and your all set.

The 606 is a great choice. I'm thinking it doesn't have preouts though if you have external amps. If you do get a new BR player the BD30 is fine as long as you don't care about BD-profile extra stuff & internal decoding. It will bitstream to an HDMI 1.3 AVR so you'll be ok.

I'd definitely take a look at the PS3 as well. It makes one heck of a BR player. Very strong support from Sony, fast load up times, very good upconversion of SD, tons of adjustments and flexibility. Makes a great media center as well.

My only issue with a PS3 is that it doesn't bitstream and that is something I want. If it did bitstream then the PS3 would be a great choice for me.

L.J.
09-26-2008, 04:17 PM
My only issue with a PS3 is that it doesn't bitstream and that is something I want. If it did bitstream then the PS3 would be a great choice for me.

It does all the decoding internally and outputs the digital signal as PCM via HDMI. The AVR would still be doing the bass management and any post processing. There are no disadvantage compared to bitstreaming.....it's all lossless. Decoding in the player also has the slight advantage of being able to play audio for BD content such as PIP. Bitstreaming will not allow this on most BR disc.

Only disadvantage with the PS3 is you need an HDMI capable AVR (v1.1 or up) since it doesn't have analog outs.

JeffKnob
09-26-2008, 07:04 PM
It does all the decoding internally and outputs the digital signal as PCM via HDMI. The AVR would still be doing the bass management and any post processing. There are no disadvantage compared to bitstreaming.....it's all lossless. Decoding in the player also has the slight advantage of being able to play audio for BD content such as PIP. Bitstreaming will not allow this on most BR disc.

Only disadvantage with the PS3 is you need an HDMI capable AVR (v1.1 or up) since it doesn't have analog outs.

So if I am reading what you are saying correctly, the PS3 will send the decoded audio and not do any level control or any other alteration? I just want to make sure I am not going to end up in the same situation I am currently in.

L.J.
09-27-2008, 06:48 AM
So if I am reading what you are saying correctly, the PS3 will send the decoded audio and not do any level control or any other alteration? I just want to make sure I am not going to end up in the same situation I am currently in.

Exactly. Everything will be handled by the AVR as long as it can handle multi channel PCM via HDMI. Most newer and alot of older gear can do this. I'm using a Yammie 2700. It's HDMI v1.2 but it doesn't matter. The PS3 decodes and sends the signal and the Yammie does all the bass management.

The Onkyo 606 is fine if you decide to go that route.


From Dolby: "the mixed PCM signal is transported from the HD player to your A/V receiver, where digital signal processing and bass management can be easily effected."

http://www.dolby.com/images/consumer/technology/trueHD/fig2.jpg

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/trueHD/avrs/trueHD_avrs_2.html

s dog
09-27-2008, 12:58 PM
I have my Panasonic BD10A Bluray player connected to my Yamaha RXV1400 receiver using the multichannel in/out. The bluray player obviously does the decoding of the high res codecs. When I listen to a bluray movie the sound is very clear and there is a definite improvement over the normal Dolby Digital or DTS however the bass doesn't have the same punch. I can switch from getting the sound via multichannel in to using the optical in and let the receiver just decode the normal Dolby Digital or DTS signal. Using the receiver to decode and do all of the bass management results in a much more powerful and cleaner LFE. I am not sure what is going on.

Can there be just too many adjustments being made by two different machines that cause problems? Maybe both the bluray player and my receiver are doing bass management and that is causing an issue. When hooking up my denon1600 dvd players dvd audio section useing multichannel outs on my denon 4800 receiver i get the same thing, Better sound but weak bass, Im sure when i get a bluray player it is going to do the same thing. BTW when useing the optical is the sound better than a reg dvd or about the same?

L.J.
09-27-2008, 02:42 PM
When hooking up my denon1600 dvd players dvd audio section useing multichannel outs on my denon 4800 receiver i get the same thing, Better sound but weak bass, Im sure when i get a bluray player it is going to do the same thing. BTW when useing the optical is the sound better than a reg dvd or about the same?

Some AVR's has adjustments for a +10db LFE boost. I auditioned the Onkyo 805 and it has this feature. My Denon 2910 is able to apply LFE settings for SACD & DVDA as well.

Optical connection for BR should provide better sound than standard DD/DTS because the BR track has a higher bitrate. 640kbps for DD & 1.5mbps for DTS. I had my PS3 connected via optical for about 9 months before going HDMI and I noted improvements in sound.

JeffKnob
09-27-2008, 09:12 PM
I got the Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and the PS3. I went through the auto setup and now there is plenty of bass from the sub and it sounds great. Maybe I am seeing things but I think the PS3 even gives a better picture than my standalone BR player.

L.J.
09-28-2008, 11:56 AM
I got the Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and the PS3. I went through the auto setup and now there is plenty of bass from the sub and it sounds great. Maybe I am seeing things but I think the PS3 even gives a better picture than my standalone BR player.

Cool, glad everything worked out. The PS3 is an excellemt BR player. If I had to purchase a new player today, it would be the PS3.

Remember that the PS3 should be set to Linear PCM under the BD/DVD audio settings. This way it will decode all the HD audio formats. Your AVR should read "MC IN" or "Multi Inputs" or something like that. Hitting display on the PS3 remote will pull up the track info on whatever disc your playing and shows you exactly what is being output to your AVR.

pixelthis
09-28-2008, 09:16 PM
Cool, glad everything worked out. The PS3 is an excellemt BR player. If I had to purchase a new player today, it would be the PS3.

Remember that the PS3 should be set to Linear PCM under the BD/DVD audio settings. This way it will decode all the HD audio formats. Your AVR should read "MC IN" or "Multi Inputs" or something like that. Hitting display on the PS3 remote will pull up the track info on whatever disc your playing and shows you exactly what is being output to your AVR.

I prefer the 5.1 channel outs, myself(I have heard both in the home)
Don't know about other players, but mine has speaker setup, I set my fronts to "large" and have never had any problem with bass.
ONE THING I think we can all agree on LPCM is AMAZING.
Really. It alone makes Blu worth the trouble.:1:

Rich-n-Texas
09-29-2008, 04:37 AM
Blu = trouble? What trouble?

OH I KNOW!!! The trouble you constantly get yourself into when talking Blu with Sir T., right? :lol:

L.J.
09-29-2008, 06:55 AM
I prefer the 5.1 channel outs, myself(I have heard both in the home)
Don't know about other players, but mine has speaker setup, I set my fronts to "large" and have never had any problem with bass.
ONE THING I think we can all agree on LPCM is AMAZING.
Really. It alone makes Blu worth the trouble.:1:

I'm thinking older players don't really allow any bass management options. If I'm not mistaken, Mr.Peabody said his player lacked adjustments as well. Interesting to see players with 5.1 analog out lacking speaker/level adjustments. Doesn't really make any sense.

JeffKnob
09-29-2008, 10:52 AM
I'm thinking older players don't really allow any bass management options. If I'm not mistaken, Mr.Peabody said his player lacked adjustments as well. Interesting to see players with 5.1 analog out lacking speaker/level adjustments. Doesn't really make any sense.


My bluray player did offer speaker adjustments but my receiver also did some as well. Basically I had two systems messing with the sound. I tried to just boost the LFE in the BR player and it didn't work. I tried to get things adjusted in my BR player so that it played well with my receiver and sounded good but it just never worked.

LJ: I am so glad you talked me into getting the PS3. It is such a great player.

pixelthis
09-29-2008, 11:14 PM
I'm thinking older players don't really allow any bass management options. If I'm not mistaken, Mr.Peabody said his player lacked adjustments as well. Interesting to see players with 5.1 analog out lacking speaker/level adjustments. Doesn't really make any sense.

they expect you to use your receiver, or your controls on your sub
(which is what I did):1:

pixelthis
09-29-2008, 11:17 PM
Blu = trouble? What trouble?

OH I KNOW!!! The trouble you constantly get yourself into when talking Blu with Sir T., right? :lol:


NOT ANYMORE.
Apparently he got laid off from his shill job.
Nice that he got some kind of laid anyway.
Hasnt been around for awhile.
Maybe his employers figuered out that they were paying too much for
a pretentious snob to post Googled answers to unasked questions
(and still get them wrong):1: