2 Channel or Home Theater for best HiFi?

[Turbota]

This is my first post on this board, So ... A big hello to everyone here.

Prior to retireing and moving to the Philippines, I gave away my old 2 channel audio system ... It consisted of a vintage Pioneer Spec 1 pre-amp, Pioneer Spec 4 power amp, Pioneer CD/DVD player, a set of 4 Polk RTi70 floor standing speakers and an Adire Rava subwoofer. The sound was really good, but now I hear so much about Home Theater, I am wondering if this is maybe a better way to get quality sound for just listening to music? (store bought music CDs and homemade MP3 music CDs)

The thing is, I do own a new Panasonic 42" plasma TV, but about all I ever watch on it is your regular TV shows, to include HBO and Cinemax. I just bought another CD/DVD player, but I don't really watch that many DVD movies on it.

So, my question is to you is ... Do you think I would be better off buying another set of 4 tower speakers, an integrated audio amp, and maybe another powered subwoofer (I already have a new CD/DVD player) for listening to MP3 music CDs? ... or, should I buy a complete 5.1 Home Theater system and hook it up to my plasma TV and then use this Home Theater system to play my MP3 music CDs?

Will a 5.1 Home Theater system sound as good as a good quality 2 channel audio system when playing those MP3 music CDs that I like? ... I guess a good sounding hi-fi audio system is more important to me than Theater type sound coming from the TV.

Thank's for any info you can help me with.

Ron,


Oh, here is a couple of photos of my old 2 channel system I had when I lived in the US ... I sure miss it! :nonod:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/AudioRack.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/AdireSubWoofer.jpg

[02audionoob]

If you get a 5.1 system and use two channels, aren't you wasting the other amplifiers and associated technology? In other words...paying for stuff that you don't need and not getting what you do need? I vote for two-channel technology...emphatically.

[Mr Peabody]

Welcome to the forums.

You didn't mention a budget. A lot of the HD content is in 5.1, you say you have HBO and many network shows are in 5.1, surround can be fun. However, if there's no interest, then I agree, why bother, just get a decent stereo rig. If you want both HT and stereo there is gear out there that sounds good doing both. Consider the Marantz AV8003/M8003
components. If just wanting stereo you can get good sound for less money then surround separates.

Before making a decision you might want to go and listen to a home theater system. I was a 2 channel guy but once I got a HT set up for movies I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Even some of the nature shows in HD is better in surround, you hear the birds and different outdoor sounds, not to mention movies and the extra level of fun surround can bring, bullets whizzing around the room, explosions or just ambient sounds.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't discard surround until you try it and if you like it, you can still get good sound. If you aren't really into TV that much and sure you don't want surround your options on good stereo sound are numerous.

[emesbee]

I have stereo and HT. My front speakers are powered by a stereo amplifier. My home theatre amp powers the remaining speakers, and feeds the front L/R signals to the stereo amp via pre-outs. So, when I listen to home theatre, I set the volume control on the stereo amp to the midway position, and use it like a power amp. For music, I switch off the HT components and just run the stereo amp. (My DVD player is connected to the HT amp, and CD player is connected to the stereo amp.)

This set up works quite well, and sounds pretty good. Home theatre is fun, but I reckon the best sound to be had for music is still stereo.

It all comes down to how much you are prepared to spend, though, and the quality of the components that you buy.

[emaidel]

I prefer to keep my 2-channel stereo setup and home theatre separate. I used to have (in the house I lived in up until last July) a fairly mundane surround setup which I found most enjoyable when watching DVD's. Even though none of the components was particularly good, the overall effect was pretty exciting. Playing CD's on the system was a different story, as they sounded pretty lame as compared to the fidelity of my superior 2-channel audio setup.

I'm loathe to mess with my 2-channel setup insofar as adapting it to a surround system (and, I have neither the space nor the finances to duplicate the equipment), but I have heard some truly outstanding (and very expensive) surround systems that all but blew me away.

So, the situation is still muddy, with no clear path to follow. To each his own...

[Ajani]

So, my question is to you is ... Do you think I would be better off buying another set of 4 tower speakers, an integrated audio amp, and maybe another powered subwoofer (I already have a new CD/DVD player) for listening to MP3 music CDs? ... or, should I buy a complete 5.1 Home Theater system and hook it up to my plasma TV and then use this Home Theater system to play my MP3 music CDs?

If you are going to buy 4 Towers and a sub, then I'd suggest justing getting 5 and a sub and have a HT... But personally, I'd opt for just 2 good towers (no sub) and an integrated amp...

If, you like to watch movies or HD programs (like Discovery as Mr. Peabody mentioned) then 5.1 would be fun... but if your priority is CDs, then you can't beat a pair of towers and an integrated amp...

[GMichael]

If music is your only concern, then 2 channel is the way to go for cost vs quality return. But HT has it's benefits too. You'd have to decide if you want to be king of music, or jack of both.

[E-Stat]

Do you think I would be better off ...
There are two schools of thought and the best choice would depend upon your circumstances:

1. Invest your entire budget in one 5.1 multi-channel / HT system. There will be no component overlap and it will take up less space.

2. Buy separate systems optimized for each environment (where at least one will not be the same quality as choice # 1). While two systems take up more space, it also allows for different placement and independent use by someone else.

I chose the latter option because frequently the wife watches video while I'm listening to music. Also, I could not afford the same quality multi-channel system as my preferred two channel one.

rw

[Turbota]

Thank's everyone for all your input into my questions.

Since I am now living in the Philippines, my choices are not that good as to what's available to me. Shipping components here from the US is really out of the question since the import duty is so crazy expensive. So, I have to look at what components are readily available in the stores here.

Also, since the majority of the DVD movies that are bought over here are not surround sound ( they are cheap pirated copies) and the TV broadcasts are not surround either, I am just going to opt for a good 2 channel music system and listen to regular ol' MP3 CDs burned off the internet.

Since imported electronics cost about 50-80% more than what they can be bought for in the US (do to high taxes), I can going to settle for just a very "moderate" priced system.

The living room that the system will be placed in is not super large, so I don't think I need massive amount of power. The room is actually 18' x 17' with a high vaulted ceiling.

I think I will use a 100w/ch Onkyo A-9555 integrated amp. Nothing really special, but from the reviews I have read, it has pretty good bang for the buck, and seems to have good musical abilities.

http://www.superfi.co.uk/images/main/ONKYO_A9555_FRONT_1400.jpg


I already have both a Pioneer DV-393 and a Pioneer DV-563A CD player, so either one of them should work just fine ... That just leaves the speakers ... I am going to keep looking for a set. I still like the idea of using 4 efficient floor standing speakers.

I will hold off on buying a powered subwoofer as some of you have suggested ... The system may sound just fine without it.

Thank's again, :)
Ron

[Mr Peabody]

Why do you want four speakers? Typically, stereo is just two facing you in your listening position. Four may complicate your sound set up and possibly tax your amp more than necessary.

[Turbota]

Why do you want four speakers? Typically, stereo is just two facing you in your listening position. Four may complicate your sound set up and possibly tax your amp more than necessary.

When I setup that last 2 channel system I had, I initially used 2 front floor standing speakers. After a couple of months listening to it, I bought 2 more for the rear ... To me, when using the 4 speakers, the sound was more "spacious" (for the lack of a better word). It just sounded so much better. With the 4 speakers, you could really tell the difference when switching between A and then to A/B. Switched to A/B, it really made the sound more "open" ... like you were in a larger listening room. Certainly not discrete 4 channel by any means, but not so "direct" as with just listening to front speakers.

Of course that Pioneer Spec 1 power amp had no trouble driving all 4 speakers at the same time .... Don't really know if that 100w / channel Onkyo would be up to it, but it might do ok as long as I use 4 efficient 6 Ohm speakers with a recommended amp power rating of between 20-120w / channel, or something close to that. I don't care to have a system that will break the windows ... just something that has nice clean sound at normal listening levels.

Ron,

[pixelthis]

When I setup that last 2 channel system I had, I initially used 2 front floor standing speakers. After a couple of months listening to it, I bought 2 more for the rear ... To me, when using the 4 speakers, the sound was more "spacious" (for the lack of a better word). It just sounded so much better. With the 4 speakers, you could really tell the difference when switching between A and then to A/B. Switched to A/B, it really made the sound more "open" ... like you were in a larger listening room. Certainly not discrete 4 channel by any means, but not so "direct" as with just listening to front speakers.

Of course that Pioneer Spec 1 power amp had no trouble driving all 4 speakers at the same time .... Don't really know if that 100w / channel Onkyo would be up to it, but it might do ok as long as I use 4 efficient 6 Ohm speakers with a recommended amp power rating of between 20-120w / channel, or something close to that. I don't care to have a system that will break the windows ... just something that has nice clean sound at normal listening levels.

Ron,


HOLD THE PHONE.
You might be interested in a HT receiver.
All of em have prologic II and DTS neo.
Both have a music mode for enhancing two channel music, and sounds quite good.
If you like 4 speakers you might really want to think about a 5.1 system,
prologic II might be something you enjoy:1:

[GMichael]

When I setup that last 2 channel system I had, I initially used 2 front floor standing speakers. After a couple of months listening to it, I bought 2 more for the rear ... To me, when using the 4 speakers, the sound was more "spacious" (for the lack of a better word). It just sounded so much better. With the 4 speakers, you could really tell the difference when switching between A and then to A/B. Switched to A/B, it really made the sound more "open" ... like you were in a larger listening room. Certainly not discrete 4 channel by any means, but not so "direct" as with just listening to front speakers.

Of course that Pioneer Spec 1 power amp had no trouble driving all 4 speakers at the same time .... Don't really know if that 100w / channel Onkyo would be up to it, but it might do ok as long as I use 4 efficient 6 Ohm speakers with a recommended amp power rating of between 20-120w / channel, or something close to that. I don't care to have a system that will break the windows ... just something that has nice clean sound at normal listening levels.

Ron,



I'm forced to agree with Pix. (please don't tell anyone) My first thought when I read your comment on 4 speakers sounding more spacious was that you'd like an HT system. Most all HT receiver have a way of taking a 2 channel signal and turning it into a 5.1 sound. That's great for watching TV that is broadcast in 2 channel. It will give you a more spacious and enveloping sound for movies & TV.

[basite]

while Pix makes a valuable point, I don't think it will be the same...

What you did with you stereo setup was hooking up 4 speakers to a stereo amp, which will still be possible with any decent amp today, and the right speakers.


You do seem to live in the wrong country though dude :D
pirated copies in actual music/dvd stores? :D

(just joking:p)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[blackraven]

Buy a decent HT AVR like NAD or one of the nicer Onkyo's if you think that you may want HT in the future. (I'm going through the painful process of trying to integrate a 2ch amp and a HT 5.1 AVR with one set of speakers right now and let me tell you, its not an easy task and it has its own set of problems.) You will still get very good sound. You mentioned the Onkyo 9555 which is a very good integrated amp but not high end audiophile. I think that you can acheive the quality of sound of the 9555 with a good AVR. Its all a matter of personal preferences as with any piece of audio equipment.

By the way, my listening room is 17x17x9 and I run 260wpc for HT and just purchased a 400wpc 2ch amp, although my speakers are difficult to drive and sound better with the hi power.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm forced to agree with Pix. (please don't tell anyone) My first thought when I read your comment on 4 speakers sounding more spacious was that you'd like an HT system. Most all HT receiver have a way of taking a 2 channel signal and turning it into a 5.1 sound. That's great for watching TV that is broadcast in 2 channel. It will give you a more spacious and enveloping sound for movies & TV.
What did he say?

Oh okay...

yer secret's safe with me. :yesnod:

[Turbota]

You mentioned the Onkyo 9555 which is a very good integrated amp but not high end audiophile. I think that you can acheive the quality of sound of the 9555 with a good AVR. Its all a matter of personal preferences as with any piece of audio equipment.


Thank's blackraven and everyone else for the comments and info ... I can certainly agree with you that the Onkyo 9555 is not "Audiophile" in performance, but unfortunatly do to 25 years of military flying, neither are my ears Audiophile quality anymore! http://www.xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/images/smilies/43.gif

[02audionoob]

Perhaps there's no real reason to be, but...I'd be a little concerned about running four 6-Ohm speakers at a time. Maybe 8-Ohm speakers instead?

[pixelthis]

I'm forced to agree with Pix. (please don't tell anyone) My first thought when I read your comment on 4 speakers sounding more spacious was that you'd like an HT system. Most all HT receiver have a way of taking a 2 channel signal and turning it into a 5.1 sound. That's great for watching TV that is broadcast in 2 channel. It will give you a more spacious and enveloping sound for movies & TV.

He likes me! He really likes me!:1:

[Worf101]

Nice meeting you. As a fellow vet I can only say "welcome aboard". I was Army, Combat Engineer. I managed to keep most of my hearing despite demolitions and explosive ordinance disposal duties. I like your current set up. I presently run my main 5.1 set up as double duty. I've not the room or space for a dedicated 2 channel hook up, or I'd have one.

I've spent many a night and day in the P.I. back when I wore a younger man's clothes. Is the 777 Club still there in Metro Manila?

Da Worfster

[Ajani]

You mentioned the Onkyo 9555 which is a very good integrated amp but not high end audiophile. I think that you can acheive the quality of sound of the 9555 with a good AVR.

Decent advice, but I'd add a few disclaimers:

1) High End Audiophile is pretty much a meaningless term, as it really just depends on who you ask... Some people think High End starts above $2K, others $5K and some only regard SOTA products as real high end (so generally nothing under $20K)... Others could care less about price... the only thing that matters is whether you are happy with the sound...

2) Yes, you can achieve the sound quality of the 955 with an AVR, but the real question is how much will that AVR cost? Don't think that you can just replace a $700 integrated amp with a $700 AVR and get the same sound quality... that's highly unlikely... you may need to spend $1.5K or more on an AVR to get the same quality...

[Rich-n-Texas]

And sometimes you can get a brand new $1.5K AVR for $400 off list, so yeah, there are too many variables involved when trying to classify equipment into any one specific category. Florian would probably disagree though...

[Turbota]

I've spent many a night and day in the P.I. back when I wore a younger man's clothes. Is the 777 Club still there in Metro Manila?

Da Worfster

I haven't gone bar hopping in Manila for a long time, so I really don't know anything about the clubs there. I do know that about 16 years ago, the ex-mayor of Manila (Mr. Lim) shut down all the bars in the Ermita area of Manila. Most of those bars were owned by foreigners.

But, even though the US military has left the Philippines, the bars in the Angeles City area around the old Clark Airbase are still going strong today! The US Air Force has just been replaced with tourists. And Clark Airbase is now a big industrial park and will someday replace the Manila airport as the gateway into the Philippines.

Ron,

[RoadRunner6]

Ron, from a Vietnam vet, Grateful Thanks for your service flying your 60.

If you get a chance can you send somethying nice to Pixelthis (one of our mentally challenged members). Perhaps a carton of balut or maybe some nice chocolate coated camel spiders. Something for him to munch on while he is watching his new Vizio LCD.

I am more for a complete 5.1 system for HT and music (with Onkyo receiver). The midline receivers like the 706 include the Music Optimizer which improves the quality of compressed audio such as MP3. The digital 9555 does not have this. A friend who has a lot of MP3 scratch says the similar circuitry on his Yamaha receiver makes a significant improvement in the sound of MP3. The Onkyo's have a pretty fine amp for a receiver. I'd bet a six pack of San Miguel you couldn't hear any difference from that digital Integrated amp. Just some food for thought. However, it looks like you might already have a decision made. Good luck.

RR6 :biggrin5:

(for Pixelthis, is that the singer above they call Pink?)

[Turbota]

RR6 ... Thank's for the advice. There is a high-end audio store up in Manila that I am going to visit on my next trip up there in about 2 weeks. I am not going to make any decisions until then.

That's one hell of a pic of a couple of oversized camel spiders you have there.

I have always thought that if those camel spiders were the size of german shepards, they would in fact rule the world! ... There is no doubt in my mind!

Ron, :)

[pixelthis]

Ron, from a Vietnam vet, Grateful Thanks for your service flying your 60.

If you get a chance can you send somethying nice to Pixelthis (one of our mentally challenged members). Perhaps a carton of balut or maybe some nice chocolate coated camel spiders. Something for him to munch on while he is watching his new Vizio LCD.

I am more for a complete 5.1 system for HT and music (with Onkyo receiver). The midline receivers like the 706 include the Music Optimizer which improves the quality of compressed audio such as MP3. The digital 9555 does not have this. A friend who has a lot of MP3 scratch says the similar circuitry on his Yamaha receiver makes a significant improvement in the sound of MP3. The Onkyo's have a pretty fine amp for a receiver. I'd bet a six pack of San Miguel you couldn't hear any difference from that digital Integrated amp. Just some food for thought. However, it looks like you might already have a decision made. Good luck.

RR6 :biggrin5:

(for Pixelthis, is that the singer above they call Pink?)

Now all we need are pictures of the scorpions.
Nope, that is too conservative for pink.
AT YOUR REQUEST; :1:

[pixelthis]

Ron, from a Vietnam vet, Grateful Thanks for your service flying your 60.

If you get a chance can you send somethying nice to Pixelthis (one of our mentally challenged members). Perhaps a carton of balut or maybe some nice chocolate coated camel spiders. Something for him to munch on while he is watching his new Vizio LCD.

I am more for a complete 5.1 system for HT and music (with Onkyo receiver). The midline receivers like the 706 include the Music Optimizer which improves the quality of compressed audio such as MP3. The digital 9555 does not have this. A friend who has a lot of MP3 scratch says the similar circuitry on his Yamaha receiver makes a significant improvement in the sound of MP3. The Onkyo's have a pretty fine amp for a receiver. I'd bet a six pack of San Miguel you couldn't hear any difference from that digital Integrated amp. Just some food for thought. However, it looks like you might already have a decision made. Good luck.

RR6 :biggrin5:

(for Pixelthis, is that the singer above they call Pink?)


I have heard of these "equalization" circuits, they sound like painting a twelve year old house trailer.
I have seen a lot upgrading their current "receiver", nothin wrong with that.
But what ever happened to an "upgrade" path?
Is a receiver playin crappy MP3'S over midline speakers what you aspire to?
I am currently on an "upgrade" path, and yes I GOT SIDE TRACKED.
But if I BUY A NEW RECEIVER THAT WOULD BE A STEP BACK.
So I will concentrate on getting a prepro, my current receiver will be the amp until I can get one of those.
I had decided to put this off, but with the purchase of his amp,
Rich is father along towards a serious HT than me.
This slap in the face by the b##ch of reality has spurred me on.
I am back on the upgrade path.
Or an old age spent eating alpo while I watch the "motel" sign outta the window.
Wonder what time the title loan place opens....:1:

[RoadRunner6]

I helped a friend buy and set up his HT system last year. He's actually a musician and has a pretty decent ear. He and his wife have huge collection of MP3 music (I have zero) and wanted to be able to play it. So I found a Yammie receiver that had the music expander or whatever they call it. He got the Yammie MP3 accessory for the receiver. All I know is that he said it definitley made an audible inprovement.

Yeah, I knew that was Maria. I've just never seen her look so delicious, especially in pink!

I think if I was going to upgrade my receiver soon, I (being a big bamg for the buck guy) would seriously look at that new Onkyo pre/pro (brother of the Integra 9.8?..can't remember the exact models numbers now). It to me looks like an excellent unit and actually a better bargain than either the new Rotel or Marantz (8003) which are both tested in the current issue of Home Theater.

The Emotiva, XPA-5, 5 channel amp gets my motor running. Wow, what a buy.

RR6

[RoadRunner6]

I think it might be the Integra DHC-9.9/Onkyo PR-SC885P. Also, that Outlaw 997 that Nightflier posted looks very interesting.

[02audionoob]

Mariah has her moments when looking delicious.

[RoadRunner6]

Sorry, I left off an "h". That must stand for hot!

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think it might be the Integra DHC-9.9/Onkyo PR-SC885P. Also, that Outlaw 997 that Nightflier posted looks very interesting.
:nono:

Parasound Halo. Give them a good hard look! :yesnod:

[dblarano]

There are many high end audio store in manila, especially in Makati district. DVDs are of high quality. I am from Laguna ,Philippines.

[nightflier]

I think it might be the Integra DHC-9.9/Onkyo PR-SC885P. Also, that Outlaw 997 that Nightflier posted looks very interesting.

Well I am probably the only one here who will say it, but I actually have the Onkyo 9555 and I am not too impressed with it. What's a real downer on that model isn't so much the sound or the performance (more on that below), but rather the less-than-well-thought-out feature set. For example, you can't put the darned thing in standby more from the front controls (you need the remote to do that). On the other hand, the remote is also full of other features not found on the front (I hate that), but to add insult to injury, the most useful features (IMO) are actually not on the remote - I'm thinking of speaker A/B selection, Pure-Audio mode, etc. The thing also lacks a 12v trigger, which considering it doesn't have a tuner, is a bit odd. The 9555 also doesn't do so well with heavy loads, like what you'll see with 4 ohm speakers, where it quickly runs out of steam. Got 2 sets of 4 ohm speakers? Too bad, the amp will balk at it. That all wouldn't be so bad if it actually had pre-outs, but it doesn't. I read the positive reviews as well but it's really misleading when people keep comparing it to units costing 2-3x as much. Yes, it comes in at a bargain basement price, but frankly, Onkyo cut a lot of corners to get that low down into the barrel.

Now onto the sound, it's OK, but nothing to scream about either. Yes, I like the fact that it's a class-d switching amp and that it runs cool, but it doesn't sound very good. The best way to describe it is that it sounds lifeless. And the phono section? Fuhgetaboutit, it's bested by the least expensive external units from Pro-Ject and Cambridge. So while at $600-ish I suppose it's an OK buy, for my money the NAD C355 is a better value (I have the C325BEE and I think even that one sounds better at just $250). If you must have class-d switching, a second hand PS Audio GCA-100 would be the way to go - much better quality all-around and oodles of amperage / power. I've auditioned both that one and the GCA-250, and kept the latter because it was a great value, especially considering the convenience / feature-set.

But getting back to your original question, there is no reason you can't have both a 2-channel and a 5.1 system on the same rack. Just make sure the integrated or preamp has a HT bypass option. That way everything works together.

Anyhow, that's just my 2c, before this becomes another unbridled 9555 adulation thread.

[RoadRunner6]

Yeah, I have not had too strong of a hunch about those relatively low priced D amps in receivers or int. amps, especially with heavier loads to drive. I tried to say as much without being offending in his other post about the speakers. I included some quotes from a Stereophile review which hinted at the problems.

Personally I would go for the conventional amps in one of those midpriced Onkyo AVR's (706 thru 875) or conventional integrated amp versus that amp in the 9555.

Appreciate your honest comments, Nightflier. I respect someone who can give constructive criticism of their own equipment. Many rave about everything they own, regardless.

Thanks,

RR6 :thumbsup:

[Turbota]

Folks ... I appreciate your honesty. If we are just going to 'sugar coat' everything written here, we would be doing each other a deservice ... especially for the novice like myself.

As someone wrote, there A-9555 was having trouble driving 4 speakers of 4 ohms each. There is a Caution on the back of the A-9555 stateing that the minimum ohms of the speakers need to be 8 ohms when driving 4 speakers (A/B).

Something interesting is that the Asia / Oceania version of the A-9555 is rated at 100 w/ch @ 8 ohms continuous, while the US version is rated at 85 w/ch @ 8 ohms continuous.

Anyway, the cheapest I can find the Asia version of this amp over her in the Philippines is 28,000 pesos ($602 USD) ... Again, my options are fewer than what you people living in the US have.

Ron,

[Turbota]

There are many high end audio store in manila, especially in Makati district. DVDs are of high quality. I am from Laguna ,Philippines.

I am living in Bacolod City (Negros island)

BTW, that price of 28,000 pesos was from Pure Digital Concept / Pioneer Service Center on West Avenue in Quezon City (Owner ... Peter Falcis)

Audio World (Joey Lim) also in Quezon City has good prices on the Onkyo amp.

[pixelthis]

BACK to more important matters...:1:

[pixelthis]

Well I am probably the only one here who will say it, but I actually have the Onkyo 9555 and I am not too impressed with it. What's a real downer on that model isn't so much the sound or the performance (more on that below), but rather the less-than-well-thought-out feature set. For example, you can't put the darned thing in standby more from the front controls (you need the remote to do that). On the other hand, the remote is also full of other features not found on the front (I hate that), but to add insult to injury, the most useful features (IMO) are actually not on the remote - I'm thinking of speaker A/B selection, Pure-Audio mode, etc. The thing also lacks a 12v trigger, which considering it doesn't have a tuner, is a bit odd. The 9555 also doesn't do so well with heavy loads, like what you'll see with 4 ohm speakers, where it quickly runs out of steam. Got 2 sets of 4 ohm speakers? Too bad, the amp will balk at it. That all wouldn't be so bad if it actually had pre-outs, but it doesn't. I read the positive reviews as well but it's really misleading when people keep comparing it to units costing 2-3x as much. Yes, it comes in at a bargain basement price, but frankly, Onkyo cut a lot of corners to get that low down into the barrel.

Now onto the sound, it's OK, but nothing to scream about either. Yes, I like the fact that it's a class-d switching amp and that it runs cool, but it doesn't sound very good. The best way to describe it is that it sounds lifeless. And the phono section? Fuhgetaboutit, it's bested by the least expensive external units from Pro-Ject and Cambridge. So while at $600-ish I suppose it's an OK buy, for my money the NAD C355 is a better value (I have the C325BEE and I think even that one sounds better at just $250). If you must have class-d switching, a second hand PS Audio GCA-100 would be the way to go - much better quality all-around and oodles of amperage / power. I've auditioned both that one and the GCA-250, and kept the latter because it was a great value, especially considering the convenience / feature-set.

But getting back to your original question, there is no reason you can't have both a 2-channel and a 5.1 system on the same rack. Just make sure the integrated or preamp has a HT bypass option. That way everything works together.

Anyhow, that's just my 2c, before this becomes another unbridled 9555 adulation thread.

EVER THINK IT MIGHT BE THE CLASS "D" AMP?
I love my Integra. I too was pissed at lack of some controls on the remote, then I found a button that goes from stereo to "direct" to "pure".
Anyway, are you ever gonna step up to the plate and go real
HT with a pre-pro amp combo?
Just curious:1:

[RoadRunner6]

the minimum ohms of the speakers need to be 8 ohms when driving 4 speakers (A/B).

Something interesting is that the Asia / Oceania version of the A-9555 is rated at 100 w/ch @ 8 ohms continuous, while the US version is rated at 85 w/ch @ 8 ohms continuous.

That is a standard warning on most amps or in the owner's manual.

Same amp, just rated under different tolerances. There are a lot of games played listing the power output.

For example (just rough figures pulled out of my head but the idea is accurate).

500 watts per ch @ 1ch/driven, 10% distortion, at 1kHz, peak power.
250 watts per ch @ 1ch/driven, 1% distortion, at 1kHz, peak power.
200 watts per ch @ 1ch/driven, .1% distortion, at 1kHz, peak power
175 watts per ch @ 1ch/driven, .05% distortion, at 1kHz, peak power.
125 watts per ch @ 1ch/driven, .05% distortion, at 1kHz, RMS power (continuous).
100 watts per ch @ 1ch/driven, .05% distortion, at 20-20,000Hz, RMS power
75 watts per ch @ 2ch/driven, .05% distortion, at 20-20,000Hz, RMS power

(note, I didn't list an impedence but these rating might all be into 8 ohms. At 4 ohms the wattage will theoretically be double but in the real world will be 25-75% more or so. The closer to double the tested wattage into 4 ohms versus 8 ohms the stronger the amp. Some cheap amps will actually measure lower at 4 ohms than 8 ohms, sign of a very weak amp. An amp that tests at 75 watts/8 ohms and 130 watts/4 ohms is better than one that tests at 75 watts/8 ohms and 100 watts/4 ohms under the same tolerances. Some amps will be listed at 6 ohms and also peak power at 3 and 2 ohms).

These are all the exact same amp with specs listed using a different set of progressively more demanding tolerances. The last line is the traditional strict way to rate amps but most manufacturers know that many people just look at the numbers believing all watts are created equal and are tempted to use a rating (within industry guidelines that can differ per country) that gives a higher number of watts.

RR6

[RoadRunner6]

BACK to more important matters...:1:

Mariah and I videotaped our date last month when she wore that dress. I think I'll title it, Deep Purple.

The instrumental "Deep Purple" became so popular in sheet music sales that Mitchell Parish added lyrics in 1938:

When the deep purple falls over sleepy garden walls
And the stars begin to twinkle in the sky—
In the mist of a memory you wander back to me
Breathing my name with a sigh...

RR6 :arf: :arf: :arf:

[nightflier]

EVER THINK IT MIGHT BE THE CLASS "D" AMP?

As you know, I've been a fan of class-d for a long time, but I still have some alternatives to play with, too: Adcom, Monarchy, PS Audio Classic, B&K Ref., and Outlaw. Maybe not at the same price-point as my class-d gear, but they all have their own character, I suppose. I've also had better amps in-house, including Krell, Aragon, Densen, Arcam, Pass, and Threshold, but they are now gone. Don't get me wrong, class-d can sound good, but it takes a lot of engineering (read: $$$), to get something usable with quality sound. Someone recommended the Onkyo to me and I got a great deal, but it hasn't been a good experience. It certainly does not compare to gear 2-3 times as much, as the trade-rags like to suggest. At $600 for the Onkyo, that would be an integrated in the $1800 range like the class-d GCC-100 used, or something from the entry lines of Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Densen, and Naim, new. And I really don't consider the Onkyo on par with these brands.


I love my Integra. I too was pissed at lack of some controls on the remote, then I found a button that goes from stereo to "direct" to "pure".
Anyway, are you ever gonna step up to the plate and go real
HT with a pre-pro amp combo?
Just curious:1:

If the next pre/pro doesn't measure up I'll have to raise my price-ceiling. That is, unless I get cheap about it and have to fall back on Onkyo again (every time I do, I'm disappointed - you'd think I learn). I've been eying that NAD one, or maybe even their Master Series, but these are still expensive. Outlaw will be offering an introductory $1395 for the new pre/pro with $200 off for existing Outlaw owners. And that new pre/pro has some pretty amazing hardware inside so it's going to be tough to beat. Maybe this will also get the other guys to lower their prices a little - with the economy the way it is, there should be some good deals this holiday season.

I'm currently driving a fantastic PS Audio multi-channel amp (all class-d, BTW) with my current pre/pro, a less than stellar Outlaw. It sounds OK, but no HDMI, no BluRay, no 1080p, no OSD, no upconversion, and wildly different manually-set settings to get decent sound out of each different input. Pretty much old-school but it sounds pretty good with SACD via the analog inputs, though.

Off-topic: Hey Pix, I was asked to put in a picture request for you: who's that pretty young thing in the Vincent Audio magazine ads (e.g. this month's Stereophile)?

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=RoadRunner6]Mariah and I videotaped our date last month when she wore that dress. I think I'll title it, Deep Purple.

The instrumental "Deep Purple" became so popular in sheet music sales that Mitchell Parish added lyrics in 1938:

When the deep purple falls over sleepy garden walls
And the stars begin to twinkle in the sky—
In the mist of a memory you wander back to me
Breathing my name with a sigh...

RR6 :arf: :arf: :arf:

[pixelthis]

As you know, I've been a fan of class-d for a long time, but I still have some alternatives to play with, too: Adcom, Monarchy, PS Audio Classic, B&K Ref., and Outlaw. Maybe not at the same price-point as my class-d gear, but they all have their own character, I suppose. I've also had better amps in-house, including Krell, Aragon, Densen, Arcam, Pass, and Threshold, but they are now gone. Don't get me wrong, class-d can sound good, but it takes a lot of engineering (read: $$$), to get something usable with quality sound. Someone recommended the Onkyo to me and I got a great deal, but it hasn't been a good experience. It certainly does not compare to gear 2-3 times as much, as the trade-rags like to suggest. At $600 for the Onkyo, that would be an integrated in the $1800 range like the class-d GCC-100 used, or something from the entry lines of Arcam, Musical Fidelity, Densen, and Naim, new. And I really don't consider the Onkyo on par with these brands.



If the next pre/pro doesn't measure up I'll have to raise my price-ceiling. That is, unless I get cheap about it and have to fall back on Onkyo again (every time I do, I'm disappointed - you'd think I learn). I've been eying that NAD one, or maybe even their Master Series, but these are still expensive. Outlaw will be offering an introductory $1395 for the new pre/pro with $200 off for existing Outlaw owners. And that new pre/pro has some pretty amazing hardware inside so it's going to be tough to beat. Maybe this will also get the other guys to lower their prices a little - with the economy the way it is, there should be some good deals this holiday season.

I'm currently driving a fantastic PS Audio multi-channel amp (all class-d, BTW) with my current pre/pro, a less than stellar Outlaw. It sounds OK, but no HDMI, no BluRay, no 1080p, no OSD, no upconversion, and wildly different manually-set settings to get decent sound out of each different input. Pretty much old-school but it sounds pretty good with SACD via the analog inputs, though.

Off-topic: Hey Pix, I was asked to put in a picture request for you: who's that pretty young thing in the Vincent Audio magazine ads (e.g. this month's Stereophile)?


That "new" prepro is a sherwood clone, which means it should be pretty good, time to put grandma on the street corner.
Dont know who that chick is, bnut with this walkin around who cares?:1:

[pixelthis]

Best I coould do on short notice, sorry.
Dont know the chick you're talkin about, that would require buying
a copy of the mag, and since I can nary afford anything
in there....:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Deep Purple? I thought that was more like Smo.....ke on the wa...ter, a fire in the sky...

[pixelthis]

Deep Purple? I thought that was more like Smo.....ke on the wa...ter, a fire in the sky...


You're right.
Reminds me of a skit I saw on the TV, people singing the wrong lyrics to rock songs.:1:

[nightflier]

That "new" prepro is a sherwood clone, which means it should be pretty good, time to put grandma on the street corner.
Dont know who that chick is, bnut with this walkin around who cares?:1:

Never could get with Simpson. No wonder she's always wearing heels. Wasn't she a brunette, before the whole Latchey-fused rise to mediocrity?

[Mr Peabody]

Now she's all country

[Rich-n-Texas]

Never could get with Simpson. No wonder she's always wearing heels. Wasn't she a brunette, before the whole Latchey-fused rise to mediocrity?
Loser thread. :lol:

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=nightflier]Never could get with Simpson. No wonder she's always wearing heels. Wasn't she a brunette, before the whole Latchey-fused rise to mediocrity?

[nightflier]

Ouch, I guess she's a lot more popular than I thought....

(still don't know why, though)

[Wits]

Wow, that pic of the Doc Savage book brings back memories! I used to read him in Jr. High school, way back in the day. :smilewinkgrin:

With regard to speakers being 'hard to drive': Is that something that's known after the speakers have been out for a while? What I mean is, if I told you what I had, is it likely someone here could tell me if they were hard to drive? I'd hate to buy a receiver and then later find out it wasn't up to the job.

I have been thinking of buying a center channel and using it with my existing Klipsch LF-10 powered sub and my two Klipsch RB-5 speakers and making a 3.1 to use for HDTV and listening to music. I had been thinking of buying an Onkyo TX-SR606, and a salesman said I needed to buy another Klipsch speaker for the center channel or it wouldn't match up properly-- 'be voiced'?--might have been the term he used. Sorry, it's like 5AM and I'm probably not making as much sense now as I could.

Thanks a ton for your advice! :) I'm going :crazy: trying to figure everything out!

[Mr Peabody]

1. Klipsch are among the easiest speakers on the market to drive. Very high sensitivity or another way to put it, they play loud without much power behind them.

2. The sales person was correct, chalk one up for them, you should buy a Klipsch center, preferably the same series as well, for best voice matching. This is important for seamless panning of sound across your screen or front sound stage. And, very important if you plan to listen to multi-channel music. One typically would not use mismatched speakers for left and right, so why would they in a multi-channel system? When using all 3 front speakers it's really the same difference.

For what it's worth the Onkyo 605/606 and up have been good options. Very well loaded with up to date features, inputs and decoding as well as decent performance.

The buzz I'm hearing on Pioneer lately is starting to turn my opinion around some for them but I will reserve a firm stance until I hear for myself. It they were cost effective the digital amps would run much cooler and easier to place the receiver in a rack over typical amps.

[Wits]

Thanks, Mr Peabody. Unfortunately they stopped making my speakers nearly 10 years ago, so I'm unlikely to find another (Reference Series) unless I find one used, and frankly I'm not thrilled about that. Though if LauraStrickland ever responds to my post about buying her speakers that she advertised here, I may buy her used ones.

I know this next question is going to be nearly impossible to answer, but I'd appreciate it if you'd give it a try: What should I look for to try to figure out where the 'sweet spot' is in the best bang for the buck as the models increase? Or is the 606 pretty much it without going up several hundred dollars before seeing the next real performance upgrade?

My situation is such that I am able to spend more money if there is a clear reason for doing so, but I have so many other things to buy (tv, tv stand, blu-ray player) that anything saved here can go toward those things.

Thanks again for your advice and expertise. :)

[blackraven]

I would still buy a Klipsch center channel as it will still have the Klipsch sound and will match the best to your speakers.

The Onkyo 706 can be had for a couple of hundred $'s more that the 606. The 606 is going for $360-400 and the 706 $525-700

http://www.gosale.com/4947795/onkyo-tx-sr706-71-channel?gclid=CMqEw_yM15YCFQJNagodIlsc4A

I've bought a few things from OneCAll and they are reputable in my experience. $525 and free shipping is a real bargain for the 706. I'd jump on that gravy train while its available at that price if you are considering Onkyo.

[Mr Peabody]

In the Onkyo line, I really don't know if you'd gain a lot by going up in models as far as just sound quality. I don't think power will be an issue for you. But, then again, if you have it in reserve it will be there if you ever change speakers. To get better sound you may need to look at something like a NAD or Cambridge Audio receiver. NAD would probably be the best mix with Klipsch would be my guestimation. I haven't looked at them close enough to recommend a model that would be comparible to the 606 in features.

You may try emailing Klipsch to see what they recommend as the closest match center to your speakers. I agree, at least stay with a Klipsch center if you are going to keep your current models.

A couple guys here have found the Sony s550 online at $299.00 which is a killer buy for a Blu-ray player.

[Wits]

Excellent, thanks to all of you for the wonderful advice. That's inspirational to email Klipsch for their recommendation as to what currently matches best with my speakers. I live in a tiny condo; the living room where the tv and sound system will be placed is approximately 12' wide by 20' long with a high cathedral vaulted ceiling that's probably 15' high at its highest point.

I talked to a guy in Klipsch tech support today, and he gave me the model number of the center channel that I should get, the RC-62. We had a nice long chat, and I won't bore you with the details, but I guess the main thing I came away with was to make sure I had a receiver with sufficient power to drive the speakers. He recommended a minimum of 100w per channel of good clean power for my speakers.

Now, I know that the Onkyo 606 says it delivers 140w per channel; I have two reservations about that model after doing more research about it. First, I've read a lot about it getting extremely hot--as in, you cannot even hold your hand on it for more than a second or two. And second, the step-up models from the 606 actually state less power than the 606! :confused5: That just seems strange to me. Just off the top of my head, I think the 706 claims 130w per channel and maybe the 806 claiming 120. If these numbers are right (if my memory didn't fail me), then doesn't that seem strange that the upgrade models would be offering less power?

Anywho, thanks again for listening to my drivel.:crazy: :D

Turbota, I beg your pardon for hijacking your thread sir.

[Mr Peabody]

What ever the rating, Onkyo has one of the best amp sections available in the "mass-market" brands. I have heard as well they run hot but that's a typical side effect of amps with a high current design. Receivers don't seem to have the room for the type of heat sinks they need for high current 100+ watt per channel. In addition, users don't realize receivers need plenty of room around them to circulate air. Many have these wood furniture type things to please the wife where they stick the receiver on a cramped shelf behind glass. Not optimum for a powerhouse. I was advising a guy on his system, he got the 605 and all Paradigm speakers, so far, so good, after more than a year.

If you do decide to shop around more, I'd suggest a peek at Denon, Marantz or the Pioneer Elite.

[E-Stat]

Never could get with Simpson.
Nice legs, but she's dumb as a rock.

rw

[blackraven]

The onkyo 606 is rated at 90wpc not 130wpc http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR606&class=Receiver&p=s You are thinking of the 806 which is rated at 130wpc.

And the 606 should have plenty of power to drive the Klipsch speakers. Its 90wpc of high current and the Klipsch are very efficient speakers and easy to drive. If your worried about power then go for the 706 at 100wpc. Although you wont notice a difference of 10wpc. Buy some nice 10 or 12 gauge speaker wire from blujeancables and you wont have any problems.

One thing to remember, some manufacturer's under rate the power output of their receivers. Consumer reports just measured the power output of the Onkyo 506 at 106wpc while Onkyo lists it at 75wpc.

Onkyo's do get hot but are made to handle the heat. You should just make sure that its well ventilated as all equipment should be. You should feel the heat coming from my Tube/Hybrid preamp. So dont worry about the heat unless you plan on placing it in a cabinet.

If your considering Denon, look at their 3000 series amps which use Torroidal power transformers.

If it was me and I was on a budget, I would go for the Onkyo's.

[nightflier]

Not that it should matter all that much, but.... Onkyo does not make TVs, so having everything on one remote is not really an option. Of course, with the money you save over buying Sony, you could probably buy a great Harmony remote to go along with it (and it may also sound better than Sony).

[pixelthis]

Not that it should matter all that much, but.... Onkyo does not make TVs, so having everything on one remote is not really an option. Of course, with the money you save over buying Sony, you could probably buy a great Harmony remote to go along with it (and it may also sound better than Sony).


a GOOD LEARNING REMOTE will fix that, I have used one remote for years, and I dont give up anything, indeed, I HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY.
And sorry about the "traitor " logo, got a bit carried away there.
How about this instead?:1:

[pixelthis]

Nice legs, but she's dumb as a rock.

rw

The perfect woman, in other words:1:

[nightflier]

Pixel, she looks ok in this picture because:

A. She's wearing a striped sweater
B. She's sitting down
C. We can't see her profile
D. She's not saying anything.

And I haven't even mentioned air-brushing and make-up. But yes, with those qualifiers, she does look pretty good.

I'd still take Tricia Helfer any day, though.