About as confused as I can get

[bklyn1028]

What I have:
Sony KDS R70 XBR2
PS3
OPPO DVD
Explorer 8300 HD DVR cable box
Yamaha HTR 5150
Yamaha speakers for surround, Front speakers are Argonaut by Mission
my dilemma:

Toying with a new receiver (yamaha works flawlessly but 5.1 only and no hdmi). It would be nice to have hdmi into a new receiver then to tv and use one remote, but....would the sound be that much better in a new one with Dolby True HD and DTS HD? Price isn't that much of an issue, but would like to be in the less than $1k range. Or am I wasting my time because I won't hear that much of a difference in sound with a new receiver.
Any help would be terrific
Thanks

[L.J.]

What I have:
Sony KDS R70 XBR2
PS3
OPPO DVD
Explorer 8300 HD DVR cable box
Yamaha HTR 5150
Yamaha speakers for surround, Front speakers are Argonaut by Mission
my dilemma:

Toying with a new receiver (yamaha works flawlessly but 5.1 only and no hdmi). It would be nice to have hdmi into a new receiver then to tv and use one remote, but....would the sound be that much better in a new one with Dolby True HD and DTS HD? Price isn't that much of an issue, but would like to be in the less than $1k range. Or am I wasting my time because I won't hear that much of a difference in sound with a new receiver.
Any help would be terrific
Thanks

Yeah your gonna need a HDMI AVR to take full advantage of the HD audio. I had my PS3 going optical to my 2805 for about 9 months before going HDMI. I picked up a Yamaha 2700 and haven't looked back. The new HD audio formats sound good. Really good.

I would suggest that you give a HDMI unit a try and see for yourself. You already got the BR player. Circuit City carries Onkyo & Best Buy carries Yamaha so you should have a few choices close by. Take a look at the Onkyo 606 or Yamaha 663. I pretty sure you'll be happy.

[Mr Peabody]

Agreed, the HD audio formats are worth the upgrade. When I first got my BR player I used optical just procrastinated getting back there and hooking up multichannel analog. But, when i did hook up the MC analog to take advantage of the HD formats and uncompressed, the improvement was big.

I recently upgraded to a processor that is HDMI. You want to buy good HDMI cables too. I was pretty down on my new purchase until I tried replacing what I thought was good HDMI cables with even better ones, it made a significant difference.

[bklyn1028]

Agreed, the HD audio formats are worth the upgrade. When I first got my BR player I used optical just procrastinated getting back there and hooking up multichannel analog. But, when i did hook up the MC analog to take advantage of the HD formats and uncompressed, the improvement was big.

I recently upgraded to a processor that is HDMI. You want to buy good HDMI cables too. I was pretty down on my new purchase until I tried replacing what I thought was good HDMI cables with even better ones, it made a significant difference.

funny, you hear all over the net that a $6 HDMI cable is the same as a $60 one

[Hyfi]

funny, you hear all over the net that a $6 HDMI cable is the same as a $60 one
Be careful, you will also hear on almost any cable discussion board that cutting the wires off of old lamps is as good as buying cables from a cable mfg (other than Monster that is).

You have to make these kind of decisions on your own after filtering all the advice. I would think that $6 HDMI cables are comparable to the $2 black and white interconnects that come with components.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Be careful, you will also hear on almost any cable discussion board that cutting the wires off of old lamps is as good as buying cables from a cable mfg (other than Monster that is).
Now THAT one outta get ResidentLoser's fuse lit! :lol:

(Inside joke Hyfi. RL is a big proponent of the theory that wire is wire.)

[Mr Peabody]

I didn't want to rewrite my recent experience here on this thread but take a look at my thread I started under the "cables" forum. I think I called it "Please read, there is a difference in HDMI cables".

The point that most who read it missed or maybe I didn't make it plain enough IS the $40.00 cables I was using worked. I got a picture, I got sound. However, the $150.00 cable improved on that picture and sound by a significant amount. I was painfully disappointed with my new processor where others were raving about theirs. It came down to my experience was due to a cable. Some cheap HDMI cables work but cause specs in the picture, some don't work at all or cause hand shake issues, some work find but only do part of the job. Why buy high definition equipment at all if you aren't willing to buy the quality cables to get what you are paying for. I am now thankful I heard the issues with the preamp, or else I might have gone on not knowing how much picture quality I was missing. I wouldn't tell any one to run right out and buy a $150.00 cable, what I hope readers would do is pick up the one they might want to buy, even if it's $6.00, and then compare it to a quality cable, like Tributaries, Blue Jean, Audioquest, PS Audio etc. if that comparison don't convince you, so be it. You know what I mean, if the goal is to watch TV, and there's nothing wrong with that, then get cable or a converter box for your old TV, but if you want the best possible picture and willing to spend good money on a HD micro display why in the world buy a cheezy cable that voids most of the benefit of what you just tried to pay for?

[bklyn1028]

Ok...so presume I just bought good cables...( i probably will), will upgrading my yamaha HTR 5150 to say.....pioneer 1018, or sony 920 improve on the picture, or sound. Will playing a bd movie on one of these new hdmi receivers sound THAT MUCH better than what I have...that is my dilemma. And, my current yammy....sounds wonderful.......(altho I haven't heard the dolby true hd or dts hd master...or what it's called.Just looking for good advice

[L.J.]

Ok...so presume I just bought good cables...( i probably will), will upgrading my yamaha HTR 5150 to say.....pioneer 1018, or sony 920 improve on the picture, or sound. Will playing a bd movie on one of these new hdmi receivers sound THAT MUCH better than what I have...that is my dilemma. And, my current yammy....sounds wonderful.......(altho I haven't heard the dolby true hd or dts hd master...or what it's called.Just looking for good advice

Do a google and I'm sure you'll finds hundreds of threads with people praising HD audio. It sounds good. I easily noticed the improvements in my system and have even replaced a bunch of DVDs with a BR copy. So for me, yeah it sounds "that much" better. But that doesn't mean anything.

I think the only thing people can give you is their own personal experiences. A lot of things come into play, 1080i vs 1080p, full bitrate DTS vs DTSMA or DolbyTrueHD. Are you gonna see/hear improvements....you tell me. The best advice anyone can give you is to go out and audition a few units at home to see for yourself.

BTW, sweet TV!

[Mr Peabody]

You can use your receiver and still enjoy HD audio. The 5150 has multichannel inputs. You will have to take your video directly to TV and then hook your multichannel output of your BR player into the multichannel input of the receiver. This will require a total of 6 RCA cables. If you don't mind the extra cables, it's cheaper than replacing your receiver. I don't think the Pioneer or Sony would sound much better in themselves but the HD audio formats will definitely show you an improvement. I think Yamaha called the inputs you need an "outboard decoder input". Basically that's what you are going to do any way, use the decoder in the Blu-ray player opposed to the receiver. When you watch a movie you want to select "uncompressed", "Tru-HD" or "DTS-MA", from the discs set up menu, these will give you the highest audio quality.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

When you are talking 3 meters or less, any well made HDMI cable will do, expensive or not. If you have long runs, or using more bandwidth than we are using now, then that is when the more expensive 1.3a rated HDMI cable comes in handy. I use a 2 meter HDMI cable from Monorprice.com. It cost me $12. No flashes, no speckles, and it produces a 1080p image without any loss(confirmed through test signals). Data traveling over long distances and using higher bandwidth requires the cable be quite well made, which will make it a little more expensive than a HDMI cable carrying bluray resolution audio and video. For lengths less than 6ft, a well made cheap cable works just fine for bluray playback. This idea that you are going to get more resolution from more expensive cables is nonsense. Digital video is just like digital audio, either it passes, or it fails. There is the possibility of jitter in audio from long cable runs, but a good signal amplifyer with good reclocking of the signal takes care of that for long runs.


http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/hdmi-cable-testing-results

Its better to be educated about these things, so you do not spout off nonsense.

[Mr Peabody]

When you are talking 3 meters or less, any well made HDMI cable will do, expensive or not. If you have long runs, or using more bandwidth than we are using now, then that is when the more expensive 1.3a rated HDMI cable comes in handy. I use a 3 meter HDMI cable from Monorprice.com. It cost me $12. No flashes, no speckles, and it produces a 1080p image without any loss(confirmed through test signals). Data traveling over long distances and using higher bandwidth requires the cable be quite well made, which will make it a little more expensive than a HDMI cable carrying bluray resolution audio and video. For lengths less than 6ft, a well made cheap cable works just fine for bluray playback. This idea that you are going to get more resolution from more expensive cables is nonsense. Digital video is just like digital audio, either it passes, or it fails. There is the possibility of jitter in audio from long cable runs, but a good signal amplifyer with good reclocking of the signal takes care of that for long runs.

* What you have written really shows what a poser you are. Only some one with no experience would have written such crap. No one said the HDMI increases resolution. That's a fault in your reading comprehension or an attempt to take the argument in another direction. What was said, is a cheap cable can degrade the picture. Just because digital is 1's and 0's doesn't mean it can not be lost or corrupted, and the 1's and 0's have to be in good enough shape when they arrive to be read by the other component.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/hdmi-cable-testing-results

Its better to be educated about these things, so you do not spout off nonsense.

* Well maybe you should get some education so you can be more informed. As some one already stated here the web is full of links like yours and if you had any real world experience opposed to your make believe world you would know that those articles are as bogus as you are. And, as I stated those interested should try for themselves. My cable from BR to processor uses only a 1 meter cable and there was a significant improvement when switching from the Belkin to a Tributaries. Mr. Custom everything and uses a $12.00 cable, you are so full of it. The only reason you posted is because you aren't happy unless you are arguing with some one. Your ego wouldn't let you use a $12.00 cable even if you wanted to. You couldn't brag about it. So go back to what ever studio you supposedly work for and mop the floors, their janitor is about all you have the mental capacity for.

[Hyfi]

Now THAT one outta get ResidentLoser's fuse lit! :lol:

(Inside joke Hyfi. RL is a big proponent of the theory that wire is wire.)

I know who he is. It's Mytrcraft that scares me. Not sure if you've been around long enough to remember him and his cable board buddies.

[Mr Peabody]

You can also lump Terry right in there with them.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* Well maybe you should get some education so you can be more informed. As some one already stated here the web is full of links like yours and if you had any real world experience opposed to your make believe world you would know that those articles are as bogus as you are.

Mr stupid, you cannot worm out that way you coward. His method of testing is done exactly like the cable manufacturers do themselves. If you had any education you would know that. You cannot just say his testing is bogus, you have to prove it. So where is your proof that it is bogus? Where did he go wrong, and what invalidates his testing Peabrain?



And, as I stated those interested should try for themselves. My cable from BR to processor uses only a 1 meter cable and there was a significant improvement when switching from the Belkin to a Tributaries.

Last time I checked, we were not talking about analog audio. You cannot get better digital from better wire because you are not passing a analog signal which is subjected to all kinds of RF interference, and is electrical in nature. HDMI signals are fully digital. You get 0 and 1's. Better cable does not mean better 0 and 1's. Its pass or fail, not good, better and best like analog. You are lying to yourself, and trying to justify your stupid uneducated purchase. Either that, or you are trying to push your chest out and show how fat your wallet is(or your head, either will do).


Mr. Custom everything and uses a $12.00 cable, you are so full of it. The only reason you posted is because you aren't happy unless you are arguing with some one. Your ego wouldn't let you use a $12.00 cable even if you wanted to. You couldn't brag about it. So go back to what ever studio you supposedly work for and mop the floors, their janitor is about all you have the mental capacity for.

All of this ranting is not going to cover your bragging, and falling into a hole with your bad information not far behind you. What makes me unhappy is when a wanna be expert attempts to advance easily debuked information, and then trying to roar like a lion to covered the fact that it was that easily debunked. HDMI is a completely different monster than coaxial and Toslink cables. You cannot use the same analogies applied to them with HDMI cables.

I guess I just file this dumb azz $150 dollar uneducated purchase right next to the 20 different commincations happening in a HDMI cable. At the rate you are going, it is apparent that you don't know a HDMI cable from a rats behind.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You can also lump Terry right in there with them.

Yes you can. Both of them handily wooped your behind on the cable forum daily. You are too much emotional anecdotal BS, and not enough real science.

[Mr Peabody]

Mr stupid, you cannot worm out that way you coward. His method of testing is done exactly like the cable manufacturers do themselves. If you had any education you would know that. You cannot just say his testing is bogus, you have to prove it. So where is your proof that it is bogus? Where did he go wrong, and what invalidates his testing Peabrain?

* I saw the proof for myself, that's all I need. If his testing was the same as the manufacturer's then his results should have been the same. Are you saying manufacturers who sell a HDMI for more than $12.00 are all liars, that their testing is false? That soundls like fraud. Wonder how they get away with that. And they publish tests as well. hmmmmm

Last time I checked, we were not talking about analog audio. You cannot get better digital from better wire because you are not passing a analog signal which is subjected to all kinds of RF interference, and is electrical in nature. HDMI signals are fully digital. You get 0 and 1's. Better cable does not mean better 0 and 1's. Its pass or fail, not good, better and best like analog. You are lying to yourself, and trying to justify your stupid uneducated purchase. Either that, or you are trying to push your chest out and show how fat your wallet is(or your head, either will do).

* Well you can try to cover up your stupidity with name calling all you want. You must think when you unplugh the HDMI you see 1's and 0's come out. If you had any idea of what you were talking about you'd realize that digital is still an electrical signal. I know your reading comp is giving you problems but as I stated before the 1's and 0's still have to be read and they all have to be there.

All of this ranting is not going to cover your bragging, and falling into a hole with your bad information not far behind you. What makes me unhappy is when a wanna be expert attempts to advance easily debuked information, and then trying to roar like a lion to covered the fact that it was that easily debunked. HDMI is a completely different monster than coaxial and Toslink cables. You cannot use the same analogies applied to them with HDMI cables.

* And, why not? It's 1's and 0's going through all of them. Optical is different in that it is light but explain to me what is so different in the 3, why wouldn't HDMI benefit from better cable and transper.
Terry, Terry, you are the one who is here pretending to be some big employee of a secret movie studio. I don't need to brag, there are much more expensive HDMI cables than what I bought, I'm excited about my results and just want to share them with others of like mind and those with an open enough mind to try for themselves and not listen to idiots like you.

I guess I just file this dumb azz $150 dollar uneducated purchase right next to the 20 different commincations happening in a HDMI cable. At the rate you are going, it is apparent that you don't know a HDMI cable from a rats behind.

* Why don't you file it where your head is, up your butt.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* Why don't you file it where your head is, up your butt.

All of this is just anecdotal BS and immature name calling. Neither provide proof of your assertions. I want to see proof that more expensive HDMI cables provide better PQ and AQ than a well made $12.00 Monoprice HDMI cables.

WERE IS THE FREAKIN TECHNICAL AND SCIENTIFIC PROOF?

I say you are hearing and seeing things. I suppose you see a pink elephant in the rooml. Probably can hear it trumpet as well.......LOL

By the way Mr HDMI I see and hear things expert; I have mentioned several times exactly what studio I work for. Its no secret at all. I gave away a big clue clueless in the Favorite Film forum. Maybe you were too blinded by your stupid headed expensive cable purchase to see it. You are just like a cockroach. You just mill around saying things you cannot support until the lights go on. Then you spit venom and run around like crazy when the light reveals that your assertions are a pile of dung

[Mr Peabody]

Well, Terry, if you want to see proof why don't you hop down to your nearest credible hi fi shop and borrow a couple HDMI cables and try for yourself. Of course, you are too little and shallow to admit you were wrong but I'd have the satisfaction of knowing in your tormented and functionally challenged mind you will always be tortured by the thought I was right.

Even if I posted a page of links it wouldn't really make you change your mind, so why bother. We've been through that on other discussions. Even with links you refuse to admit the truth. And when you get backed into a corner then you want to drudge up every argument from the past, call names etc. I'm not wasting my time.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well, Terry, if you want to see proof why don't you hop down to your nearest credible hi fi shop and borrow a couple HDMI cables and try for yourself. Of course, you are too little and shallow to admit you were wrong but I'd have the satisfaction of knowing in your tormented and functionally challenged mind you will always be tortured by the thought I was right.

You are BS'ing again. HDMI cable tests after cable test has proven that you are just a liar, and a sorry azz bragger. The reason I know is because I tried several much more expensive cables(including the Monster cables) before I decided on the Monoprice ones. I was into bluray and HD DVD long before you fat liar, I already did what you are just now doing. All of the cables I tried passed the audio and video signals without adding any noise or artifacts to the picture. That includes that $12.00 Monoprice cables I kept, because quite frankly I think it is stupid to pay $150 for something that $12.00 can do with the same results. I am kinda sick of your BS'ing. If you are going to make this kind of assertion, then it ought to be quite easy for you to furnish proof of what you say. It is telling that you just keep going back to the deflection and venom, and think that is a substitute for scientific facts. Show me a link that support what you say, or you are just spreading misinformation. I already provided a link that debunks what you said.


Even if I posted a page of links it wouldn't really make you change your mind, so why bother.

Soooo, now you can predict what people will do before they do it. Your talents just don't have a end do they? Sorry, you can't wiggle out that way. Try me. Post the link, and let's see what my reaction is. Now make this a relevant link that you fully understand, and are willing to debate, because that HDMI link you provided about the 20 different communications in HDMI didn't state that at all.


We've been through that on other discussions. Even with links you refuse to admit the truth. And when you get backed into a corner then you want to drudge up every argument from the past, call names etc. I'm not wasting my time.

Admit the truth. I asked you to show me were your link stated that 20 different communications were happening in a HDMI handshake. You have yet to show me were that link states such. Your link has to actually support what you say, and if you even understood it yourself, you would not have even posted it.

You are behaving like a slimy little worm. Prove your point, or admit you are ignorant of all things HDMI. So far you are 0 for 2 on HDMI related issues. Ya ready to strike out?

[Mr Peabody]

You are BS'ing again. HDMI cable tests after cable test has proven that you are just a liar, and a sorry azz bragger. The reason I know is because I tried several much more expensive cables(including the Monster cables) before I decided on the Monoprice ones. I was into bluray and HD DVD long before you fat liar, I already did what you are just now doing. All of the cables I tried passed the audio and video signals without adding any noise or artifacts to the picture. That includes that $12.00 Monoprice cables I kept, because quite frankly I think it is stupid to pay $150 for something that $12.00 can do with the same results. I am kinda sick of your BS'ing. If you are going to make this kind of assertion, then it ought to be quite easy for you to furnish proof of what you say. It is telling that you just keep going back to the deflection and venom, and think that is a substitute for scientific facts. Show me a link that support what you say, or you are just spreading misinformation. I already provided a link that debunks what you said.

* You are funny, now you want to say you tried other cables. Now who is a liar. If you done that you would have said something long before now.

Soooo, now you can predict what people will do before they do it. Your talents just don't have a end do they? Sorry, you can't wiggle out that way. Try me. Post the link, and let's see what my reaction is. Now make this a relevant link that you fully understand, and are willing to debate, because that HDMI link you provided about the 20 different communications in HDMI didn't state that at all.

* Terry, you are very predictable, your actions never change. Others seem to be satisfied with the link that I provided, the one you can't seem to find now. Now who is deflecting.

Admit the truth. I asked you to show me were your link stated that 20 different communications were happening in a HDMI handshake. You have yet to show me were that link states such. Your link has to actually support what you say, and if you even understood it yourself, you would not have even posted it.

* The link did show and support my position, I can not account for your ignorance and lack of reading comprehension. Out of every one on that thread you were the only one with the problem because you were shown to be the a$$ you are.

You are behaving like a slimy little worm. Prove your point, or admit you are ignorant of all things HDMI. So far you are 0 for 2 on HDMI related issues. Ya ready to strike out?

* So far I am right on with HDMI.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* You are funny, now you want to say you tried other cables. Now who is a liar. If you done that you would have said something long before now.

Perhaps I did say it, and you didn;t catch it. I said quite clearly that as long as the cable is less than 6ft long, any well made HDMI cable will pass 1080p video and lossless audio expensive or not. I said that because when I was doing my homework on HDMI(I actually learn about something BEFORE I get into it, not after like you do) when I purchased my HD DVD player, I actually purchased HDMI cables at different price points to see which one worked the best, I could find no difference between them. ZERO. The well made cable passed the signal without noise or artifacts, both expensive and cheap. The not so well made ones(two that were VERY expensive) had drop outs, speckles, flashes, or periods of snow. I kept the cheapest one that work the best. It cost $12.00.


* Terry, you are very predictable, your actions never change. Others seem to be satisfied with the link that I provided, the one you can't seem to find now. Now who is deflecting.

Which others? Elaspe didn't agree, and posted a link that disputes your claims.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27994 Post #2

It does not looked to me like everyone was in agreement with you. You are kinda stretching the truth about ten thousand mile here.


* The link did show and support my position, I can not account for your ignorance and lack of reading comprehension. Out of every one on that thread you were the only one with the problem because you were shown to be the a$$ you are.

No that link didn't, and I broke it down for you as well.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27194&highlight=HDMI Response #21


* So far I am right on with HDMI.

Yeah, and I am Ricky Ricardo. No proof on the 20 communications I asked for. I asked for you to spell it out, you refused. I am asking you to post a link that proves expensive cables give better PQ and AQ, and you are refusing this as well. If you think you can win something without posting any proof, you are worse off than I first thought.

[Mr Peabody]

Perhaps I did say it, and you didn;t catch it. I said quite clearly that as long as the cable is less than 6ft long, any well made HDMI cable will pass 1080p video and lossless audio expensive or not. I said that because when I was doing my homework on HDMI(I actually learn about something BEFORE I get into it, not after like you do) when I purchased my HD DVD player, I actually purchased HDMI cables at different price points to see which one worked the best, I could find no difference between them. ZERO. The well made cable passed the signal without noise or artifacts, both expensive and cheap. The not so well made ones(two that were VERY expensive) had drop outs, speckles, flashes, or periods of snow. I kept the cheapest one that work the best. It cost $12.00.

* Nice of you to come back and embellish.

Which others? Elaspe didn't agree, and posted a link that disputes your claims.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27994 Post #2

* He posted a link but from the context of what he wrote it sounded like he was trying to help me.

It does not looked to me like everyone was in agreement with you. You are kinda stretching the truth about ten thousand mile here.

* Whatever

No that link didn't, and I broke it down for you as well.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27194&highlight=HDMI Response #21

* This link shows there is more going on than what you say:

http://www.freshpatents.com/Solution-for-consumer-electronics-control-dt20060504ptan20060095596.php

If HDMI wasn't made to communicate between devices they would not have made it a two way cable.

Yeah, and I am Ricky Ricardo. No proof on the 20 communications I asked for. I asked for you to spell it out, you refused. I am asking you to post a link that proves expensive cables give better PQ and AQ, and you are refusing this as well. If you think you can win something without posting any proof, you are worse off than I first thought.

* Hi, Ricky

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* Nice of you to come back and embellish.

If that is what you call it, I copied you. Do you think that you invented the cable comparison??? You embellished the truth when you came here making false claims about expensive cable improving picture and sound quality. So where is your proof poof of the magic of a $150 cable, still have not seen it.


* He posted a link but from the context of what he wrote it sounded like he was trying to help me.

Has sarcasim escaped you? He was trying to help your lying azz by posting what is the truth. Now you can twist and spin this any way you want, but his link totally disputed your claim. The link tested Monoprice HDMI cables versus the expensive Monster HDMI cable. Their conclusion, you do not have to spend mega bucks for a HDMI cable that can pass 1080p signals. Monoprice's $15-30 HDMI will pass the signal just fine. Their test bore that out.


* This link shows there is more going on than what you say:

If you can make this statement, just what does it say that I haven't?

That links describes the patent for CEC which was already addressed in the first link you supplied about HDMI 1.3a specs. This is a forward looking process(there is nothing right now that uses CEC control through HDMI, we still use IR and bluetooth) that sits right next to deep color, YXcc enhanced color, and 340mhz transmission rates as future processes, not what is happening TODAY. If you had more knowledge of what you try and speak of, you would know this already, and would not have tried this $hit again. Does your Bluray player do CEC, nope. Does your television do CEC, nope. I know of no component that uses CEC to control anything. But the HDMI standards allows for its implementation, just like it does for Deep color, YXCC, and higher bandwidths. Because of your ignorance of the process, you keep mentioning things that are not being implemented TODAY as a basis for your arguement. And yet, even with this information, where are the 20 different communication happen in HDMI now, or in the future? Spell them out for all to see, or admit that you just don't know.


If HDMI wasn't made to communicate between devices they would not have made it a two way cable.

I already stated that HDMI ALREADY communicates between two device during the handshake, nobody is disputing that. What I am interested in is your line by line listing of the 20 different communication happening in the HDMI cable. You are so confused by your own ignorance, you cannot even remember what we are disputing. Damn pitiful I might say.


* Hi, Ricky

HI liar!! Nice to pull the blanket off of your BS.

Just a few excerpts from the links Elaspe provided.

What were our findings?

1) At short distances up to 6ft (2 meters), you can pretty much get away with any cable. Monoprice cables kicked ass at the 6 foot length that mostly everyone uses.

2)Judging from these results, I would have to reiterate my original position, that it's best to skimp at short distances, but you don't want to be caught with the wrong cable installed in your walls.

At the length you purchased, you didn't NEED to spend $150. You did it out of your ignorance.

3) I say, since everything is digital, and since HDMI is a spec, the cheap cable will get the data from point A to point B as well as any other cable. Additionally I say that if there are subtle (i.e. videophile-grade) differences in cables, the average consumer isn't going to spot them on the TV.

So much for your theory about better cables producing better PQ and AQ. With HDMI its pass of fail. Failing not meaning you get a blank screen. Failing meaning your will get artifacts and noise. As long as all the data arrives to the component, you will get all of the color information, the image at 1080p, and the correct constrast ratio. At that point the signals are at the mercy of the processing in your panel, and the quality of the panel itself.

And this just blows your theory out of the water

4)Differences in cable are easily spotted by untrained eyes.

A PS3 feeding 1080p signal to a Samsung 1080p LCD TV starts to jitter and throw digital noise lines across the screen if the cable can't hack the bandwidth.[b] We tested the two cables above on a PS3 showing a Blu-ray of Chicken Little and it was totally noticeable, there were lines and jitters, none of this videophile matter-of-opinion stuff that I had anticipated. It was totally obvious, and something that Monster says people often blame on their TV, not their cable.

Well so much for you "my $150 cables give much clearer picture, and it sounds better too!"

For all of the lies you have told, the denials, the backtracking and spinning, the insults and name calling that you have done, you could have more than proved your point. But you resorted to these useless and irrelevant tactics to attempt to hide the fact that you just cannot come up with the proof that supports what you say, you just can't prove it. So you have taken this from a placebo mode, to a point where you are just lying through your teeth.

I wanna see the proof of your claims. Spare me the spin and the lies, we have heard enough of that from you. Just supply a listing of the twenty communications, and the proof that more expensive HDMI cable improves the quality of the audio and video. That is all I want to see.

It looks to me like Elaspe's link made you look like the fool you are. And as for you claim that my $12 cables could not pass 1080p, look at the chart on this link.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/hdmi-cable-testing-results

If you notice berry berry carefully, a $10 monoprice HDMI cable at 6ft passed all of the test, including full spec HDMI 1.3a with a 120mhz signal which is roughly double of what most television can even receive. Oh look, all of the short cables passed this test, no matter how much they cost!!

[Mr Peabody]

If that is what you call it, I copied you. So where is your proof poof of the magic of a $150 cable, still have not seen it.

* Well come on over when you are ready

He was trying to help your lying azz by posting what is the truth. Now you can twist and spin this any way you want, but his link totally disputed your claim. The link tested Monoprice HDMI cables versus the expensive Monster HDMI cable. Their conclusion, you do not have to spend mega bucks for a HDMI cable that can pass 1080p signals. Monoprice's $15-30 HDMI will pass the signal just fine. Their test bore that out.

* Well you might if you want one to do it correctly.

If you can make this statement, just what does it say that I haven't?

That links describes the patent for CEC which was already addressed in the first link you supplied. This is a forward looking process(there is nothing right now that uses CEC control through HDMI, we still use IR and bluetooth) this sits right next to deep color, YXcc enhanced color, and 340mhz transmission rates as future processes, not what is happening TODAY. If you had more knowledge of what you try and speak of, you would know this already, and would not have tried this $hit again. Does your Bluray player do CEC, nope. Does your television do CEC, nope. I know of no component that uses CEC to control anything. But the HDMI standards allows for its implementation, just like it does for Deep color, YXCC, and higher bandwidths. Because of your ignorance of the process, you keep mentioning things that are not being implemented TODAY as a basis for your arguement. And yet, even with this information, where are the 20 different communication happen in HDMI now, or in the future. Spell them out for all to see, or admit that you just don't know.

* Admit you have reading comprehension problems. You are the one that can't focus on one discussion without bringing all priors back. Anyway all the articles I've read on HDMI show there is communication going on between the devices hooked together by it.

I already stated that HDMI ALREADY communicates between two device during the handshake, nobody is disputing that. What I am interested in is your line by line listing of the 20 different communication happening in the HDMI cable. You are so confused by your own ignorance, you cannot even remember what we are disputing. Damn pitiful I might say.

* Yes, you are pitiful. If you can't understand what you read I'm not going to try to rewrite it for you. Maybe you can get your mommy to read it to while tucking you in. If see does it enough, some day you might understand. Well... maybe not, it's you we're talking about.

HI liar!! Nice to pull the blanket off of your BS.

* And, you accuse everyone else of name calling. You are such a clown.

Just a few excerpts from the links Elaspe provided.

What were our findings?

1) At short distances up to 6ft (2 meters), you can pretty much get away with any cable. Monoprice cables kicked ass at the 6 foot length that mostly everyone uses.

2)Judging from these results, I would have to reiterate my original position, that it's best to skimp at short distances, but you don't want to be caught with the wrong cable installed in your walls.

At the length you purchased, you didn't NEED to spend $150. You did it out of your ignorance.

* Uh, no, dumb ass, I did it to resolve a problem. Which the $150.00 cable did just fine. The gain was easily worth the expense.

3) I say, since everything is digital, and since HDMI is a spec, the cheap cable will get the data from point A to point B as well as any other cable. Additionally I say that if there are subtle (i.e. videophile-grade) differences in cables, the average consumer isn't going to spot them on the TV.

So much for your theory about better cables producing better PQ and AQ. With HDMI its pass of fail. Failing not meaning you get a blank screen. Failing meaning your will get artifacts and noise. As long as all the data arrives to the component, you will get all of the color information, the image at 1080p, and the correct constrast ratio. At that point the signals are at the mercy of the processing in your panel, and the quality of the panel itself.

And this just blows your theory out of the water

* Well, no it don't. Because nothing you say, or the guy in the articles says, it's not going to change the results I had. I saw and heard you and the article to be wrong. He is definitely wrong by saying "digital is digital" because it is not.

4)Differences in cable are easily spotted by untrained eyes.

A PS3 feeding 1080p signal to a Samsung 1080p LCD TV starts to jitter and throw digital noise lines across the screen if the cable can't hack the bandwidth.[b] We tested the two cables above on a PS3 showing a Blu-ray of Chicken Little and it was totally noticeable, there were lines and jitters, none of this videophile matter-of-opinion stuff that I had anticipated. It was totally obvious, and something that Monster says people often blame on their TV, not their cable.

Well so much for you "my $150 cables give much clearer picture, and it sounds better too!"

* He just said there is "differences", so is there, or isn't there? Using the better cable there were obviously more detail to the picture. It was like more depth, I could see more into the background. Audio improved without a doubt.

For all of the lies you have told, the denials, the backtracking and spinning, the insults and name calling that you have done, you could have more than proved your point. But you resorted to these useless and irrelevant tactics to attempt to hide the fact that you just cannot come up with the proof that supports what you say, you just can't prove it. So you have taken this from a placebo mode, to a point where you are just lying through your teeth.

* Well all the tactics you mentioned are all yours. No lies, no placebo. If the AV8003 sounded the same with the $150.00 cable I'd still be using the Belkin and not so happy with my processor. I posted a link to Blue Jeans Cable website article on HDMI that talks about how the cables are manufactured and how there could be differences in cables. Nothing I post will change your mind and you wouldn't admit it if it did. There sure as hell nothing going to change my mind, you can't show me anything short of plugging that $12.00 cable into my system and having the same result as the Tributaries do.

I wanna see the proof of your claims. Spare me the spin and the lies, we have heard enough of that from you. Just supply a listing of the twenty communications, and the proof that more expensive HDMI cable improves the quality of the audio and video. That is all I want to see.

* Well just pick up a Tributaries Series 7 and plug into your system.

It looks to me like Elaspe's link made you look like the fool you are.

Well actually it didn't. When I first posted my results I didn't ask anyone to believe me, I did ask them to try for themselves. Go back and read it. You act like you have something to hide, like the secret will be out or now everyone will know. What harm is done if some one gets off their duff and tries a couple different cables. Just because you won't. It's nothing to me whether they do or not, so why would I have to lie. I call it as I see it. Changing that HDMI cable out made a world of difference for me. Maybe it will for some one else. Maybe not, but what have they lost, take the cable back, so you invested some time.

The thing that amuses me is how you claim to know so much and Mr Know-It-All, industry inside man. If any one is a flat out liar it is you. In my research I found things that would actually help your argument, things, IF, you knew half what you let on, you would have hit me right between the eyes with, technical information. This information couldn't change my mind because I saw and heard, what I saw and heard. But it was proof enough that you are a total fraud. You are a clown. Enlight of this, as it really wasn't any surprise, I am through wasting my time with you.

So from here on out in respect of the board you stay away from me and I will do the same with you. If you continue to harass me and ambush my posts with your nonsense then you and this board will see how ignorant things can get. I don't mind you posting, as you did on my cable thread, but you keep your name calling and verbal attacks to yourself or direct them some where else. You can post opposing views with out doing what you do. And you do so because you really don't have anything of substance so you have to resort to name calling and twisting things around.

[bklyn1028]

hello??.....you guys all better now with the cable stuff?....Forget about me?....Still need a receiver......by the way, I have 4 HDMI cable I got from Monoprice, paid I think $12 for 3 of em.I have absolutely NO issues with them. In fact when I hit display on my tv, it shows 1080i or 1080p. In fact, there is a video somewhere here from a news studio that tested a hdmi cable for $140.00, and one for $12 . Took it to their studio, and their engineer put them into 3 tests, and they both performed exactly the same.
Ok, back to business:
Toying with the HK354, but hear a lot of things wrong, specially when hdmi'd to PS3. So, that has a big ?....nest the Pio 1018, but am disappointed that the ipod usb won't hook up an iphone....so, any thoughts?. And the ps3 might go in another room in the future and I might get a stand-alone blu-ray player, but ps3 for now....any thoughts?

[JeffKnob]

hello??.....you guys all better now with the cable stuff?....Forget about me?....Still need a receiver......by the way, I have 4 HDMI cable I got from Monoprice, paid I think $12 for 3 of em.I have absolutely NO issues with them. In fact when I hit display on my tv, it shows 1080i or 1080p. In fact, there is a video somewhere here from a news studio that tested a hdmi cable for $140.00, and one for $12 . Took it to their studio, and their engineer put them into 3 tests, and they both performed exactly the same.
Ok, back to business:
Toying with the HK354, but hear a lot of things wrong, specially when hdmi'd to PS3. So, that has a big ?....nest the Pio 1018, but am disappointed that the ipod usb won't hook up an iphone....so, any thoughts?. And the ps3 might go in another room in the future and I might get a stand-alone blu-ray player, but ps3 for now....any thoughts?

Check out Onkyo's line. I just recently got the TX-SR606 replacing a Yamaha RX-V1400. There is a vast improvement in sound. I checked out some reviews on hometheatermag.com and found that my Yamaha didn't come even close to the 110w it was rated per channel. The 2400 would only get about 40w when tested and that is rated for more power than my 1400. The Onkyo was very close to the rated power. I doubled the amount of power to my speakers, that might have something to do with my improvement of sound.

[bklyn1028]

I just got an email from Harman Kardon web spec., and he says they are aware of the prob with the hk's and ps3s. A fix is in the works, but he explained it to be nothing more than a 1/2 second delay at the beginning of the menu on the ps3. Then the pioneer has a usb port that a flash drive or ipod can be attached to. Even an external magnetic hard drive, now that could be interesting.

[RoadRunner6]

I am one of the few here that agrees with the info you read about the HDMI cables. Stay with what you bought and put your money into the receiver.

I agree on the Onkyo line. IMO they have the best all around performance for the money in your price range, you said up to $1000. Look at the 806 for $799 or if you can afford $1399 go with the 876 for better video processing if you would use it with the Silicon Optix's Reon chip. They both have an excellent performing amp for midpriced receivers. I don't care for the current HK line. I don't know about the PS3 problems.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120109&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Receivers-_-Onkyo-_-82120109 ($799)

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/538999952/onkyo-tx-sr876?v_c=PriceGrabber&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=12-68400147-2 ($1399)

http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/808onk/ (for those on a $379 budget at Vann's))

RR6 :p

[bklyn1028]

I am one of the few here that agrees with the info you read about the HDMI cables. Stay with what you bought and put your money into the receiver.

I agree on the Onkyo line. IMO they have the best all around performance for the money in your price range, you said up to $1000. Look at the 806 for $799 or if you can afford $1399 go with the 876 for better video processing if you would use it with the Silicon Optix's Reon chip. They both have an excellent performing amp for midpriced receivers. I don't care for the current HK line. I don't know about the PS3 problems.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120109&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Receivers-_-Onkyo-_-82120109 ($799)

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/538999952/onkyo-tx-sr876?v_c=PriceGrabber&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=12-68400147-2 ($1399)

http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/608recfeat/

http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/808onk/ (for those on a $379 budget at Vann's))

RR6 :p
I have read Onkyo's have clear crisp sound...one of the best. Funny, you read HK owners have issues they return em for Pio's, Pio people have issues they return em for a yamaha, who have issues and return them for an onkyo...lol...One guy gave me great advice...."Go with what looks good on your shelf"

[jabroneez]

Nice article with plenty of tests to review.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/testing-equipment-procedure

[captjamo]

So, that has a big ?....nest the Pio 1018, but am disappointed that the ipod usb won't hook up an iphone....so, any thoughts?. And the ps3 might go in another room in the future and I might get a stand-alone blu-ray player, but ps3 for now....any thoughts?

Not sure what you mean by this BKLYN1028, but I am intrigued by the new Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K in that it is class D ICE power 130 watts x 7.1. I've seen it for 440.00 on the internet. Try butterflyphoto.com. Seems to me to be the best power grab for price available right now. We have a lot of Onkyo lovers on here and I support their opinions that Onkyo is great for giving real rated power for all channels driven solid performance. Another thing that intrigues me about the new 1018 is that it should in theory run a lot cooler than its A/B class competition. I'm going to be looking for cooler running equipment in the future. My 46" HD LCD, Pio 92TXH, PS3 triple heat threat gets my listening/viewing room quite warm during a thorough evening of use. BTW I have 12' Belkin HDMI 1.3A(25.00 @ Sam's) connected to my TV and I bought the Digital Video Basics BD to calibrate my Sony KDL-W3000 and the video is so sharp I didn't change anything. I fail to see thus far what a premium cable would do for my HDTV.

[Mr Peabody]

I didn't realize the new Pioneers were that low in price. I have heard they are putting out a pretty good product these days.

You fail to see what a premium HDMI cable can do because you have never tried one. People fail to see what better amps or CD players might do as well until they hear a better one. It may very well be that a premium cable don't do anything for you but you can't say or put it down until you've tried it. I'm not the only one on the board who has come to realize there is improvement to be had by a better HDMI cable. I might also add that I used a Belkin HDMI for nearly a year and thought it did just fine. It wasn't until switching to the Marantz processor and not having the same results as most owners that I became frustrated with my purchase and begun experimenting to see why the AV8003 wasn't performing for me. The HDMI upgrade made all the difference. I can't explain why it did, but it absolutely did. The audio was more noticeable than the video but I do believe there was improvement there as well. It made certain things in sceens become more apparent to me and added more of a depth to the picture.

[pixelthis]

Nice article with plenty of tests to review.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/long-hdmi-cable-bench-tests/testing-equipment-procedure


Great test, read it before but a good thing to refresh on every once in awhile.
So HDMI cables arent the same, but the differences are minor.
And the 9.95 $ monoprice (the brand I have) passed everything
So MR P, maybe there was a slight diff in your cables, or the first could have been defective, that is always a possibility:1:

[bklyn1028]

So, that has a big ?....nest the Pio 1018, but am disappointed that the ipod usb won't hook up an iphone....so, any thoughts?. And the ps3 might go in another room in the future and I might get a stand-alone blu-ray player, but ps3 for now....any thoughts?

Not sure what you mean by this BKLYN1028, but I am intrigued by the new Pioneer VSX-1018AH-K in that it is class D ICE power 130 watts x 7.1. I've seen it for 440.00 on the internet. Try butterflyphoto.com. Seems to me to be the best power grab for price available right now. We have a lot of Onkyo lovers on here and I support their opinions that Onkyo is great for giving real rated power for all channels driven solid performance. Another thing that intrigues me about the new 1018 is that it should in theory run a lot cooler than its A/B class competition. I'm going to be looking for cooler running equipment in the future. My 46" HD LCD, Pio 92TXH, PS3 triple heat threat gets my listening/viewing room quite warm during a thorough evening of use. BTW I have 12' Belkin HDMI 1.3A(25.00 @ Sam's) connected to my TV and I bought the Digital Video Basics BD to calibrate my Sony KDL-W3000 and the video is so sharp I didn't change anything. I fail to see thus far what a premium cable would do for my HDTV.

What i meant was....with the HK having ps3 probs, that gives it a ?....nest should typed "next" meaning next in line is the pio 1018, but i can live without my iphone hooking up to it....however...I am now toying with...getting just a stand alone bluray player...because my pio has multi channel inputs...I just have to figure out if i can get the dts hd ma, or dolby true hd thru that....that might be the way to go....and give my grandson back his ps3....(not that he uses it much)..

[bklyn1028]

I didn't realize the new Pioneers were that low in price. I have heard they are putting out a pretty good product these days.

You fail to see what a premium HDMI cable can do because you have never tried one. People fail to see what better amps or CD players might do as well until they hear a better one. It may very well be that a premium cable don't do anything for you but you can't say or put it down until you've tried it. I'm not the only one on the board who has come to realize there is improvement to be had by a better HDMI cable. I might also add that I used a Belkin HDMI for nearly a year and thought it did just fine. It wasn't until switching to the Marantz processor and not having the same results as most owners that I became frustrated with my purchase and begun experimenting to see why the AV8003 wasn't performing for me. The HDMI upgrade made all the difference. I can't explain why it did, but it absolutely did. The audio was more noticeable than the video but I do believe there was improvement there as well. It made certain things in sceens become more apparent to me and added more of a depth to the picture.
This is absolutely not intended to stir anyone's pot...but this is from Popular Mechanics Jan 08 issue...
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/4235717.html
and to quote them:
The Results
None of our editors could tell the difference. The fact is, HDMI is digital, meaning you either get the feed or you don’t. High prices and gimmicks like gold-plating don’t affect 1s and 0s. Our advice: Purchase your wiring online for cheap, and use the saved money to upgrade to a larger flat screen.

And, I only am doing this because:....the signal is the signal...you either get it, or not, an expensive hdmi or optical, or analog, or rca..etc..etc..etc...doesn't "improve the signal"

[L.J.]

What i meant was....with the HK having ps3 probs, that gives it a ?....nest should typed "next" meaning next in line is the pio 1018, but i can live without my iphone hooking up to it....however...I am now toying with...getting just a stand alone bluray player...because my pio has multi channel inputs...I just have to figure out if i can get the dts hd ma, or dolby true hd thru that....that might be the way to go....and give my grandson back his ps3....(not that he uses it much)..

You just need a player with full HD audio decoding, 5.1/7.1 analog out and does a nice job with bass management. Things are starting to come around and most of the newer players are starting to offer this.

Personally I'd stick with the PS3 :D

[bklyn1028]

You just need a player with full HD audio decoding, 5.1/7.1 analog out and does a nice job with bass management. Things are starting to come around and most of the newer players are starting to offer this.

Personally I'd stick with the PS3 :D
I know...I know....but the kid when he wants to play ONE game on it. (resistance fall of man) The only game he plays, he unconnects it from the living room, and puts it in the den.....why i'm thinkin of a stand alone......I might move out, and get an atari....lol

[captjamo]

I didn't realize the new Pioneers were that low in price. I have heard they are putting out a pretty good product these days.

You fail to see what a premium HDMI cable can do because you have never tried one. People fail to see what better amps or CD players might do as well until they hear a better one. It may very well be that a premium cable don't do anything for you but you can't say or put it down until you've tried it. I'm not the only one on the board who has come to realize there is improvement to be had by a better HDMI cable. I might also add that I used a Belkin HDMI for nearly a year and thought it did just fine. It wasn't until switching to the Marantz processor and not having the same results as most owners that I became frustrated with my purchase and begun experimenting to see why the AV8003 wasn't performing for me. The HDMI upgrade made all the difference. I can't explain why it did, but it absolutely did. The audio was more noticeable than the video but I do believe there was improvement there as well. It made certain things in sceens become more apparent to me and added more of a depth to the picture.

I for one appreciate your comments bklyn1028. You must feel like it is you against the whole forum which I don't believe (though it is fun occasionally) should ever really be the case. The dissemination of HT knowledge gained from experience albeit scientific or subjective (subjective in that the science behind the noticeable change is just not revealing itself readily:confused5: ). Something changed for you and it was good to hear that. Hell, I want to go to my place of purchase and ask to try a premium cable test (particularly on the improved audio score). Like you have said, "what do we have to lose". The thought that my speakers or my screen which I paid a good penny for would be held back in performance by the quality of the signal; I find particularly irksome. Could I get an Amen on that one? I want to know anything at all about your system suddenly sounding better dude
:idea: I do think it is easier to reason why amps and CD players can sound different with a universe of different power source types, board and chip topographies, standards of DAC, and premium electronic parts though.:cornut:

[Mr Peabody]

1's and 0's may be 1's and 0's but they have to be maintained as they travel from one place to another. Even though the AVS article don't totally disagree with Popular Mechanics they do explain the HDMI is different from optical or coaxial digital. Optical is the most vonerable as bends can distort your 1's and 0's. It should also be noted that HDMI is digital but it's false that it is either there or not, another fact pointed out in the AVS article.

It's also interesting that even though the HDMI cables that pass, show a different image on the test equipment. Whose to say this difference can't equate to picture quality difference or audio difference.

From reading the info on HDMI and considering the technology built into it like the timing signal and such I don't know if I'd believe me either. But on the off chance I was right, I'd want to try it, especially if I spend several hundred or thousands on a display and HT audio.

Riddle me this, how can some one buy a HDMI cable for $10.00 that is supposed to be as good as anything but I can't find a USB cable that cheap?