The Sugden A21-a

[tony340]

My local dealer has a Sugden A21-a integrated for sale... Now this amp is rated at 25w 'pure class A' and it sounds fantastic with the speakers he has at the showroom (Tannoy's and Kef) but i dont know whether this will match the Paradigm studio 20? I have read a lot of reviews on this amp, but no one seems to have used it with my speakers.... The problem is that my dealer wont let me take it home to audition!!!! (Some stupid damn policy here)... Any ideas on how this amp will suit the paradigm studio 20?

[bobsticks]

Never heard the combination but I would guess that with a sensitivity in the upper 80's the Paradigms might not sing at concert level volumes on a twenty-five watt amp, tube or not. That said, the Sugden is known to be a fantastic amp so depending upon your listening preferences it may be a sweet find.

[JohnMichael]

My local dealer has a Sugden A21-a integrated for sale... Now this amp is rated at 25w 'pure class A' and it sounds fantastic with the speakers he has at the showroom (Tannoy's and Kef) but i dont know whether this will match the Paradigm studio 20? I have read a lot of reviews on this amp, but no one seems to have used it with my speakers.... The problem is that my dealer wont let me take it home to audition!!!! (Some stupid damn policy here)... Any ideas on how this amp will suit the paradigm studio 20?



I would love to hear that amp. I would ask your dealer if you could bring your speakers into his shop. He may be willing to do that more than loan an amp. If you hear the amp through the 20's please let us know. The Sugden A21-a, LFD Mistral Zero, Naim Nait 5i, Exposure 2010s and a Simaudio int. amp will be on my shopping list as soon as I sell a condo.

[tony340]

Thanks yeah i will try taking the speakers in...If anyone can give me more info on this, please let me know..
P.S Sorry for posting on the wrong line!!! A real silly mistake!1

[tony340]

Hi fellows.. My dealer is asking me for USD 1100 for the sugden.. the amp is over 1 year old but in very good condition... do u think the price is good?

[Feanor]

Hi fellows.. My dealer is asking me for USD 1100 for the sugden.. the amp is over 1 year old but in very good condition... do u think the price is good?

A A21a integrated (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1223169487) recently sold for under $895 on Audiogon. That was the asking price and it might have gone a bit lower. Of course the buyer would likely have paid shipping over and above the price. An A21aP (http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1224186821), that is, power amp only, is offered for $749 "obo".

If the dealer's unit is really good shape, (which you say it is), and if your dealer offers some sort of waranty or return, $1100 wouldn't be bad. Otherwise offer a grand and see if he'll go for it.

[dean_martin]

You should PM a member who goes by RGA. He often posts about the Sugden. Next, search audiogon.com for one and see what they're going for. Next, search Stereophile's recommended components and/or archives. They recently reviewed (Sam Tellig, I believe) the SE version of this amp and discussed the base model and list prices for both.

A few things to consider:
1) There's nothing wrong with making him an offer
2) I'm pretty sure you could get most if not all your money back on audiogon.com if the amp doesn't work for you.
3) availability - I doubt I'll ever see one in my neck of the woods. If I did, I would probably try to get it.

Good luck.

[RGA]

$1100 is a veritable steal but make sure the 2 year warranty is transferable. Frankly they're pretty bomb proof and I have found the Sugden to raise the bar of most any speaker. If you look on the net for "Sugden Secret" they reviewed the amp with a far harder to drive Totem 4 ohm loudspeaker (the Arro I think). Paradigm may have some impedance issues but I bought the Sugden A48b based off of an audition with the 100V2 (why they got rid of this model for worse ones is beyond me) but the A21a is a big step up over the A48b which was already a terrific little amp.

The Sugden will move you up a whole other level in the audio world - one that will have you looking for a different company for your next loudspeakers!!

Sugden changed their amps a little over the years so make sure the model is 1 year old and the dealer is being truly truthful. There is the A21a and 21SE. My fellow reviewer Chris Redmond reviewed the Sugden recently http://www.dagogo.com/SugdenA21SE.html

Still bring your speakers to the room if they won't lend it out to you. Dealers should lend gear out which I find odd so long as they get a credit card imprint to cover themselves.

[Bernd]

This is one of the sweetest amps out there. And for the money asked a bargain. A friend drives Totem Arros with exactly that amp and it is superb. Remember it operates fully in class A and gets warm, so will need to have some space around it.
Take your speakers to the dealer and listen. I am sure you will take the Sugden home.
Good luck and let us know.

Peace

:21:

[tony340]

Hi thanks for all your advice... Yeah i will take the speakers to the dealer once i am back (currently out of SIn) and then let you guys know how the sugden sounds with the studio 20's... Btw here is the link: http://www.listeninn.com/Website/2nd%20INTAMP/Sugden(A21A).htm

[RGA]

The A21a is probably my favorite solid state amp and arguably the best "sounding" solid state amplifier I've heard. It's been selling since 1968 with pretty much the exact same design but with 3 changes over the years to parts quality (to handle more heat), ergonomics and aesthetics. It's also one of the few amps that almost everyone likes.

It's a Solid State "SET" amplifier (Single Ended Topology) Pure Class A and like the Tube versions runs very hot - so don't put in a rack - it will need the top shelf. The amp goes for around $2500 new these days so $1k is good IMO for a 1 year old one.

Here's the Sugden secret article
http://www.1388.com/articles/sugden/index.html

[tony340]

Thank you RGA, yeah the amp seems to be something really special even for someone like me, who's knowledge on hi fidelity is somewhat very basic. But even so, when you hear something out of the ordinary, u stand up and say "WOW", thats exactly how i felt when i heard the Sugden at the dealers showroom.

Just one more thing.. I heard this player through some of the dealers speakers.. Now i just wonder whether the amps 25w would be sufficient to run the studio 20's? I mean will it start to fatigue over long hours? I have not heard the amp run for long periods, so is the power rating an issue?

Since there are a couple of Naim Nait 5i also available, and the Naim is 50w, and cheaper, what would be a better option? Thanks

[RGA]

No the power ratings are largely meaningless and unfortunately the market has shifted to some silly notion that more watts equals more volume. The power supply of the amplifier is the real issue and the efficiency of the speaker.

A 50 watt amplifier in the exact same speaker will give you a 3 decibal gain in Volume over a 25 watt amp. That is not noticeable and it would only add that level at the extreme loud level.

My amplifier is 10 watts (4.2 undistorted watts) per channel and my speakers are 93db 6ohm. I can make the keyboard by my keyboard bounce. and it's nowhere near running even half way.

Single ended amps have more second harmonic distortion which adds a little euphonic touch to the presentation which is better than the alternative class B and AB designs IME.

Although there is a company in Victoria BC that is finding some intriguing distortion figures that may illustrate that THD in a SET is drastically lower than people think in a real load and the best SS designs actually really suck. I'm not technilogically advanced to say I followed it but it may explain why SET amps that measure so poorly sound so vastly better - clearer and less distorted to the ear.

If you think about it 90decibals is LOUD. If your speaker is 90db 1 watt at 1 meter then it requires just 1 watt to play 90decibals at a distance of 3 feet.

Ideally you want a speaker that presents a benign impedance not dipping under say 3ohms and one that is reasonably flat. Paradigms are not really low power amp friendly but then neither is the totem in that review. That doesn't mean it will be "bad" it just means it will not be ideal.

If you are into 2 channel audio I personally would look at different speakers than the Paradigms which I feel are suited more for pyrotechnics of home theater. That's another issue. Everyone starts somewhere and the Sugden is a truly great place to start - it could be your last amplifier. I mention the speakers because down the line you're likely going to want something else that can really show off the Sugden's capabilities.

[Bernd]

The Sugden will be fine and you will be forced to leave the room because its so loud before this gets to the limit of its power delivery.

Also the Naim amp has a completely different presentation to the Sugden. I would say opposite sites of the spectrum. The likelyhood is that if you like one you will not take to the other one. Only you can decide that. As RGA said if you get the Sugden, next look at some speakers to complement that amp.

Good Luck

:16:

[tony340]

Thanks for your very thoughtful replies.. Now the only problem I'm having is that i need to sell my Rotel RA-1062 to finance part of the Sugden!!!!

[Bernd]

Glad we could help, but remember these are just our opinions. Can't you use the Rotel as a trade in?

Peace

:1:

[tony340]

Well your opinions were very helpful and very accurate, because i heard it play witha Kef, Tannoy and some others and yes the Sugden is an absolutely great sounding amplifier...
The dealer is not willing to do an exchange unfortunately, and i really need to sell the Rotel fast i guess!!! Thanks so much