Toshiba Launches XDE DVD

[Smokey]

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080818/Toshiba_XD-E500.jpg

This morning, Toshiba officially announced its new DVD upconversion technology called XDE (which utilize Cell processor), as well as the first DVD player to feature the technology, the XD-E500, which will ship this month for $150.

The idea behind XDE, which stands for extended detail enhancement, isn't that it will compete with Blu-ray, but rather that it will get a little extra performance out of your existing DVD collection and serve as a bridge to high definition--without you having to spend a bundle on new discs.

It upconverts standard definition (480p) DVD content to HD (720p, 1080i or 1080p), requiring HD Monitor with an HDCP capable HDMI or DVI input.

Three selectable setting are available on XD-E500, offering different image enhancing tweaks:


Sharp Mode offers improved detail enhancement that is one step closer to high definition. Edges are sharper and details in films are more visible. Unlike traditional sharpness control, XDE technology analyses the entire picture and adds edge enhancement precisely where it's needed


Colour Mode makes the colours of nature stand out with improved richness. Blues and greens are more vivid and lifelike. Colour Mode combines the improvement in colour with the detail enhancement of Sharp Mode and is ideal for outdoor scenes


Contrast Mode is designed to make darker scenes or foregrounds more clearly visible without the typical "washing out" that can occur with traditional contrast adjustment. Recommended for dark scenes where detail may be difficult to notice, Contrast Mode is also combined with Sharp Mode to provide a clearer viewing experience.


XD-E500 also can output in 24 frames per second mode, reducing jitter associated with 2:3 Pull Down method. Viewing 24 frames per second requires an HD display capable of accepting a 1080p/24 Hz signal.

Here is more information on Toshiba's web site:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=xd-e500

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080818/Toshiba_XD-E500.jpg

This morning, Toshiba officially announced its new DVD upconversion technology called XDE (which utilize Cell processor), as well as the first DVD player to feature the technology, the XD-E500, which will ship this month for $150.

The idea behind XDE, which stands for extended detail enhancement, isn't that it will compete with Blu-ray, but rather that it will get a little extra performance out of your existing DVD collection and serve as a bridge to high definition--without you having to spend a bundle on new discs.

It upconverts standard definition (480p) DVD content to HD (720p, 1080i or 1080p), requiring HD Monitor with an HDCP capable HDMI or DVI input.

Three selectable setting are available on XD-E500, offering different image enhancing tweaks:


Sharp Mode offers improved detail enhancement that is one step closer to high definition. Edges are sharper and details in films are more visible. Unlike traditional sharpness control, XDE technology analyses the entire picture and adds edge enhancement precisely where it's needed


Colour Mode makes the colours of nature stand out with improved richness. Blues and greens are more vivid and lifelike. Colour Mode combines the improvement in colour with the detail enhancement of Sharp Mode and is ideal for outdoor scenes


Contrast Mode is designed to make darker scenes or foregrounds more clearly visible without the typical "washing out" that can occur with traditional contrast adjustment. Recommended for dark scenes where detail may be difficult to notice, Contrast Mode is also combined with Sharp Mode to provide a clearer viewing experience.


XD-E500 also can output in 24 frames per second mode, reducing jitter associated with 2:3 Pull Down method. Viewing 24 frames per second requires an HD display capable of accepting a 1080p/24 Hz signal.

Here is more information on Toshiba's web site:

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=xd-e500

Oh great, it adds the very thing that is the bane of the DVD, edge enhancement, a peristant problem already that causes halo's around the edges of objects. So you have edge enhancement already in the source, with Toshiba's added edge enhancement, yuck.

Color mode and contrast mode are useless when your television is properly calibrated. All I can say is good luck Toshiba.

[E-Stat]

...but rather that it will get a little extra performance out of your existing DVD collection and serve as a bridge to high definition--without you having to spend a bundle on new discs.
Apparently, they recognize companies like Oppo that already provide similar features are eating them for lunch. My 971H already bridges the gap quite a bit.

rw

[Spancticles]

i agree with sir terrence
i can get color mode just by
accidentally taking too much
cough syrup

[Smokey]

Oh great, it adds the very thing that is the bane of the DVD, edge enhancement, a peristant problem already that causes halo's around the edges of objects. So you have edge enhancement already in the source, with Toshiba's added edge enhancement, yuck.

I agree that Edge Enhancement does obscures picture detail, but if it is done right (not too much) and with right source, it does enhance the picture a bit as it give it more 3D effect.

I had a Panasonic 27 inch TV back in 1999 that had Velocity Scan Modulation which is basically similar to edge enhancement feature, and when engaged it made picture sparkle and sharp as a razor. Not too much as cover up the details, but enough to enhance a flat images such as black and white images.
And for first time I could see stage lighting in actor’s eye balls with VSM engaged which was hardly noticeable when VSM was off.

Toshiba said that it is using a Cell Processor (what is the world is that?) that is supposedly "smart"--meaning it only adds edge enhancement to certain parts of the image. So I might give them benefit of doubt. The review for this player have not come out yet, so we may have to take “lets wait and see” attitude.


Apparently, they recognize companies like Oppo that already provide similar features are eating them for lunch. My 971H already bridges the gap quite a bit.

But it seem Toshiba is offering those features at half price of Oppo players.

[pixelthis]

"FROM HELLS OWN HEART I STAB AT THEE"
One last dig at the new format, BLU RAY.
Basically scan velo modulation and "smart" contrast, better watch it, it might turn into a terminator, start dialing up Skynet or something.
I HATE SCAN VELOCITY SO MUCH that I took the cover off of my first HDTV (a Panny 47") and disabled it at the crt(all three of em)
basically the only way to turn it off, noise by any other name.
Blu is evoutionary, true, but a big enough leap to render all disscussion
of "getting by" with great upconversion moot, especially since blu players do great upconversion as a bonus anyway.
I was somewhat worried about mr p and his critiqe of upconversion
with his samsung Blu player, I neednt have worried.
The upconversion on my new player isnt true HD, but its close.
So why buy a 300 (or even 150) dollar player that doesnt do blu?
MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
I watched serenity on my blu player last night, it was simply amazing,
there is a site that compares upconversion on my player with a 1200 dollar scaler, I WAS DUBIOUS but no more.
So the future of this project?
Well, theres no market. PQ addicts will get a BLU, cheapskates will
say that their player from BILLS DOLLAR STORE (free with a case of thunderbird) is good enough.
DVD is 480i BTW, not 480p, a DVD couldnt hold a true 480p signal,
further emphasizing its obsolescense.
I predict that as prices fall, people will pass right by this one to get the latest blu player, which will be around 200 bucks in no time.
This will be an historical footnote, not much more, kinda like putting a horse on crack to keep up with autimobiles:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

"FROM HELLS OWN HEART I STAB AT THEE"
Pix has been reading Shakespeare. Impressive. :yesnod:

One last dig at the new format, BLU RAY.
Basically scan velo modulation and "smart" contrast, better watch it, it might turn into a terminator, start dialing up Skynet or something.
I'm getting caught back up with The Sarah Conner Chronicles myself.

I HATE SCAN VELOCITY SO MUCH that I took the cover off of my first HDTV (a Panny 47") and disabled it at the crt(all three of em)
basically the only way to turn it off, noise by any other name.
This is why they only let him have a Visio.

Blu is evoutionary, true, but a big enough leap to render all disscussion
of "getting by" with great upconversion moot, especially since blu players do great upconversion as a bonus anyway.
So in actuallity, VOD is dead right?

I was somewhat worried about mr p and his critiqe of upconversion
with his samsung Blu player, I neednt have worried.
Capital P.

The upconversion on my new player isnt true HD, but its close.
Have you paid your friend yet for it? It came from DOLLAR RIOT right?

So why buy a 300 (or even 150) dollar player that doesnt do blu?
MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
I watched serenity on my blu player last night, it was simply amazing,
there is a site that compares upconversion on my player with a 1200 dollar scaler, I WAS DUBIOUS but no more.
Ya know, it seems to me that Sir Talky's message has finally gotten across to you, IMO.

So the future of this project?
Well, theres no market. PQ addicts will get a BLU, cheapskates will
say that their player from BILLS DOLLAR STORE (free with a case of thunderbird) is good enough.
This is where you come in right? Must be since you know about the Thunderbird deal.

DVD is 480i BTW, not 480p, a DVD couldnt hold a true 480p signal,
further emphasizing its obsolescense.
I predict that as prices fall, people will pass right by this one to get the latest blu player, which will be around 200 bucks in no time.
This will be an historical footnote, not much more, kinda like putting a horse on crack to keep up with autimobiles:1:
I'd swear you're sounding more and more like a BR advocate everyday. VOD is DEAD!!! Long live Blu-ray!

[kexodusc]

Sounds like this will be even less successful than the S-VHS hail mary was...

[L.J.]

Hmmm......Are these new players gonna be bundled with a mail-in rebate for 10 free mediocre DVDs :rolleyes5:

[drseid]

Definitely a gimick and not worth a penny, IMO. Why buy a DVD player that makes DVDs look *worse*? I am unhappy about HD DVD's demise, but this is just lame on Toshiba's part and a terrible idea in general. I am sure it will fail.

---Dave

[kexodusc]

I think we can't really blame Toshiba here - they're strategy all along has been to extend the DVD license cash cow they have enjoyed for as long as they feasibly can. This is a low cost hardware investment that could conceivably be profitable on its own, and if it stretches the life of DVD even by weeks probably makes sense from their point of view.

Stuff like this is always part of the exit strategy of any product past maturity.

Still...a part of me just wishes the world would move on sooner rather than later.

[bobsticks]

Pix has been reading Shakespeare. Impressive. :yesnod:

Don't be too quick to hand out accolades. I'm pretty sure he cribbed it off an old Star Trek movie.

[GMichael]

Don't be too quick to hand out accolades. I'm pretty sure he cribbed it off an old Star Trek movie.

That movie was on last night.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I agree that Edge Enhancement does obscures picture detail, but if it is done right (not too much) and with right source, it does enhance the picture a bit as it give it more 3D effect.

Here is the rub bear type individual. Edge enhancement is already in the source, and its over done to the bone. As a disc reviewer have seen far too many DVD's, and quiet as it is kept bluray's as well with too much edge enhancement, too much to the point that halo's are clearly seen around sharp objects. The problem here is that its already apart of the source because the studios have to pre-filter the video before encoding, and an attempt to sharpen after pre-filtering has always produced the worst kind of side effects. With this players circuitry (since it does not do pre-analysis) you will not be able to tell it that there is already edge enhancement in the source, or not.


I had a Panasonic 27 inch TV back in 1999 that had Velocity Scan Modulation which is basically similar to edge enhancement feature, and when engaged it made picture sparkle and sharp as a razor. Not too much as cover up the details, but enough to enhance a flat images such as black and white images.
And for first time I could see stage lighting in actor’s eye balls with VSM engaged which was hardly noticeable when VSM was off.

I would advance that videotape and television signal were the primary source that was played on this television. With the rolled off high frequency of video tape and broadcast, this would probably be a complimentary feature. Now with the extended frequency response of both DVD and Bluray, SVM is usually defeated during calibration. That was the first thing I did with every projection source I have had since I could remember.


Toshiba said that it is using a Cell Processor (what is the world is that?) that is supposedly "smart"--meaning it only adds edge enhancement to certain parts of the image. So I might give them benefit of doubt. The review for this player have not come out yet, so we may have to take “lets wait and see” attitude.

The cell processor is the same process used in the PS3, but this one is a smaller 45nano sized one used in the latest PS3 SKU.(the earlier one was a 90nano in the 60 and 20GB models). Its a very powerful and expensive processor, and quite frankly at $150 Toshiba is taking another loss on this one. As a matter of fact, it cost Toshiba more to make this player than Sony to make the PS3. However, there are no real application for the Cell processor at this moment, and Toshiba bought the manufacturing rights to the processor and must do something with it. It would have been smarter to put this processor in their televisions rather than this player, because there is no guarantee this DVD player is going to sell when sitting next to other upscaling DVD players.




But it seem Toshiba is offering those features at half price of Oppo players.

The question becomes, with DVD sales falling year after year, will the public look backwards for a player that supports nothing but SD video, or will they look forward to a player that supports both HD and SD sources. That is the million dollar question.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I think we can't really blame Toshiba here - they're strategy all along has been to extend the DVD license cash cow they have enjoyed for as long as they feasibly can. This is a low cost hardware investment that could conceivably be profitable on its own, and if it stretches the life of DVD even by weeks probably makes sense from their point of view.

Stuff like this is always part of the exit strategy of any product past maturity.

Still...a part of me just wishes the world would move on sooner rather than later.

Kex, this solution is not so cheap, and their DVD royalties have been falling for years. Each year the royalties are re-caluclated, and Toshiba's cut of the pie get's smaller and smaller. Secondly this is not a low cost piece of hardware. It incorporates a less powerful version of the PS3 Cell processor, which is smaller than the PS3's cell processor, but nevertheless an expensive processor. The parts cost make this player more expensive to produce than a standard bluray player, so most everyone believes that they are losing money producing this player(as Sony did using the Cell in the PS3).

The problem is, its going to take more than a player to stop the slide of DVD sales. The next feature you are going to see on this player(if it actually sells, and the studios actually support it) is a ethernet port that supports downloads of added value extra's, much like bluray has with BD live. The problem is Toshiba originally wanted to market this player as a bluray killer(or at least a BR hinderer), and the studio I work for has openly told Toshiba that if this product is developed to start another war of sort, it will not produce any downloadable value content to support the player if and when it get's that ethernet port. Sony has already said it wasn't already, and I am not surprised if Fox said the same thing.

[jamison]

I think the money would be better spent buying 5 blu ray discs.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Rich-n-Texas]Pix has been reading Shakespeare. Impressive. :yesnod:

Watching the wrath of khan actually.
Figures you'd know nothing about the true classics



I'm getting caught back up with The Sarah Conner Chronicles myself.

The new terminator movie with Bale as john conner will render it obsolete


This is why they only let him have a Visio.

I choose a Visio, just because the apparati at TI wont let you have anything but a DLP the size of the box the USS LINCOLN
came in doesnt mean the rest of us are so limited

So in actuallity, VOD is dead right?

What has this to do with anything
Non sequiter city

Capital P.


Have you paid your friend yet for it? It came from DOLLAR RIOT right?

CIRCUIT CITY, not all of us are crazy (and cheapskate) enough to order major electronics from , of all places, new jersey
MAIL ORDER is ok, but not from a third world UN eco disaster zone.


Ya know, it seems to me that Sir Talky's message has finally gotten across to you, IMO.

The only message that has gotten across to me from talky is that hes a jr high student that can google really well to cover up his ignorance
of just about anything.
Tells a good story tho. Crackheaded but interesting



This is where you come in right? Must be since you know about the Thunderbird deal.

One of my crack hos told me about it. Probably too rich for you


I'd swear you're sounding more and more like a BR advocate everyday. VOD is DEAD!!! Long live Blu-ray!

I have never changed my positon on Blu or VOD.
i came out and predicted it the winner months ago.
I thought it the best format for movie collecting but knew that it had a limited window for getting established before VOD really got up steam.
And with DRM popping up everywhere a good format for collecting movies is important, since you wont be able to bootleg anymore.
Why is it one or the other? Vod will be for everyday casual use, for
kickass experience and collecting BLU will be it, no reason the two cant co-exist, unlike your brain and logic, which cant be in the same room at the same time, fundamental breakdown in the universe if that happens:1:

[Smokey]

I would advance that videotape and television signal were the primary source that was played on this television. With the rolled off high frequency of video tape and broadcast, this would probably be a complimentary feature.

Yes, the source was from television signal. I used VSM feature mostly on TCM channel where most program were old black and white movies. It brought t image to life. And on color programs, it mad any type lights on screen sparkle.

But also had VSM on other TVs such as JVC where it made picture look even worse, even with black and white images.


The cell processor is the same process used in the PS3, but this one is a smaller 45nano sized one used in the latest PS3 SKU.(the earlier one was a 90nano in the 60 and 20GB models). Its a very powerful and expensive processor, and quite frankly at $150 Toshiba is taking another loss on this one. As a matter of fact, it cost Toshiba more to make this player than Sony to make the PS3.

Wow, that sound like an impressive processor. But the question is why Toshiba is taking this route knowing that they will lose money since DVD player market is already flooded with cheap players. Haven’t they learned a lesson from HD-DVD adventure?

But if price on this dvd player fall, this might actually be bargain player for those looking for DVD player.


The question becomes, with DVD sales falling year after year, will the public look backwards for a player that supports nothing but SD video, or will they look forward to a player that supports both HD and SD sources. That is the million dollar question.

This is just a hunch, but I think Toshiba may have geared this product toward those that have large library of DVDs and not yet ready to replace them with BR. And looking for something better than ordinary upconversion DVD players on the market. Lets face it, there are not too many quality DVD players out there except may be from Denon or Oppo.

[Mr Peabody]

I'd like to see where it says Toshiba is losing money on these players. No one who has a successful corporation like Toshiba would be so dumb as to enter into a money losing project after the HD-DVD war. Either way though Toshiba has a big marketing issue trying to explain to consumers why this player is better than other upconverting DVD players. This player is about the same price as a HD-DVd player was. It may have a nitch though for those wanting a great DVD picture who may not need SACD playback or wanting to pay for it.

An article I read from Assc.. Press said they picture was sharper and clearer on big screen TV's compared to other upconverting DVD players but Toshiba did not show a comparison of the player to BR. They admit that BR has 6 times the picture capacity and BR is not their intended competition. Toshiba claims the intent was to give DVD a sharper clearer picture on large screen TV's. I have to admit though if one had to pay the money for a 1080p to reap full benefit of this player you might as well go BR and get the full benefit of 1080p. We also have to keep in mind that the closest priced BR player is more than double the price of this Toshiba player.

On one hand many in the industry say Blu-ray is just a nitch still but on the other hand I see a lot of DVD dumping going on. Those intent on staying or keeping DVD can pick them up cheap now. Will a DVD exodus snowball? It wouldn't seem so but it does look like retailers are positioning for one. I have to admit some of the cheap prices are tempting, I saw 3 Schwartzenager movies in a package for $10.00 and picked them up. A place here in town is advertising DVD 3 for $12.00. That's cheaper than renting.

CEDIA is only a couple weeks away so it will be interesting to see what new products will be coming for Fall and further down the road how consumers vote with their dollars.

Pix, which BR player did you end up with?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

For the uniformed(and one did just join this thread) the cell processor this player uses, though smaller and less powerful, is pretty close to the cell used in the PS3. Kjack, a bluray insider who's company programs that chip for Toshiba says they are losing money on every player that incorporates that chip when the player is priced at $150. If the player was priced closer to $225, it would make a small profit. Now their are certain peabrained individuals that I once told that Toshiba was losing money on each HD DVD player, but he declined to believe me then. Now that Toshiba has report a $950 million dollar loss on HD DVD operations, that fool still does not believe that Toshiba would launch a money losing operation. I guess when you only have a peabrain to work with, grasping simple economics might just be a little tough. Especially when that little peabrain is still chewing on state of the art upscaling of DVD as a major function of a HD movie player. {sarcasm off}

[Mr Peabody]

It would seem simple enough economics that IF a corporation lost 950 million dollars and wanted to stay in business they would not knowingly put a product on the market that would loose more money. So maybe you can break it down for me how continuous loss leads to profit.

Terry you blurtted out an assumption you can't back up and all the name dropping from your imaginary friends can't cover your butt. So take a lesson from an old man, keep your mouth shut so you can't insert your foot. If my brain is small you shouldn't be picking on me. Shame on you for harassing the handicapped.

[Smokey]

Please guys, lets stay on topic and no name calling :hand:


Toshiba claims the intent was to give DVD a sharper clearer picture on large screen TV's. I have to admit though if one had to pay the money for a 1080p to reap full benefit of this player you might as well go BR and get the full benefit of 1080p.


That is true. But you also have to realize that BR catalog is not huge as of now, so one is pretty much limited to newer releases. But you can pretty much get any movies you want on DVD. And as you said, most stored are pretty much giving them away. So there is still some life left in DVD market via bargain bins.


It would seem simple enough economics that IF a corporation lost 950 million dollars and wanted to stay in business they would not knowingly put a product on the market that would loose more money. So maybe you can break it down for me how continuous loss leads to profit.

I think that is a fair question. Losing money on HD-DVD by Toshiba is understandable due to it competition with Sony as it was trying to make a foothold, but why lose money with this DVD player since DVD is already established medium.

[pixelthis]

Please guys, lets stay on topic and no name calling :hand:

Wheres the fun in that?


That is true. But you also have to realize that BR catalog is not huge as of now, so one is pretty much limited to newer releases. But you can pretty much get any movies you want on DVD. And as you said, most stored are pretty much giving them away. So there is still some life left in DVD market via bargain bins.

If you're a huge cheapskate.
I have seen quite a few blu movies on my player, they rent at Blockbuster, and there are dozens at various outlets.
I can understand why the companies are focusing on upscale titles, but its a mistake, I SAW dozens of titles at WALMART while picking up
some cheap drinks, you can only watch so many movies, if you concentrate on building your collection you never will run outta stuff to buy, Fifth element and terminator II were fourteen bucks, not five but the quality jump is huge.
There is no need to worry about making your DVD collection obsolete,
quite the contrary, I have watched several that I see no reason to replace, because the standard version looks so good on my player, especialy "high bit" discs



I think that is a fair question. Losing money on HD-DVD by Toshiba is understandable due to it competition with Sony as it was trying to make a foothold, but why lose money with this DVD player since DVD is already established medium.


They are not losing money.
There is a lot more that goes into a player besides the video proc.
And have you seen the ads? clearly shooting for a "younger" market,
they arent saying it but intimating that this player is "just as good" as
a Blu disc player.
ALSO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that sometimes its not about the money.
HD on disc for Tosh was DOA almost from the start, and everybody knew it. Dont underestimate the power of being pissed off.
They might lose a few hundred mill, chump change really.
Still I think its a mistake. THEY COULD JOIN FORCES WITH their old foes and put out cheaper players, but since when has common sense ever been a major factor in corporate descision?
In the eighties instead of going with an established system (laserdisc)
RCA went with CED videodisc, and lost five hundred million, about a billion in todays dollars, so its not like its never happened before.
But I find it puzzling as to just who will buy this player.
Paying such a huge sum so you can hit the bargain bin at Walmart
is kinda silly.
When I EXPLAINED to friends and family that my DVD player was 130 bucks (on closeout) they thought that was rediculous.
And the 600 dollar one I bought when you could get one for a hundred bucks?
PLEASE:1:

[Feanor]

...
Terry you blurtted out an assumption you can't back up and all the name dropping from your imaginary friends can't cover your butt. So take a lesson from an old man, keep your mouth shut so you can't insert your foot. If my brain is small you shouldn't be picking on me. Shame on you for harassing the handicapped.

Sir Terrance does NOT like to be contradicted. If you make that mistake you are likely to be called an ignorant peabrain :eek6: and a liar.

[Smokey]

I can understand why the companies are focusing on upscale titles, but its a mistake, I SAW dozens of titles at WALMART while picking up some cheap drinks, you can only watch so many movies, if you concentrate on building your collection you never will run outta stuff to buy, Fifth element and terminator II were fourteen bucks, not five but the quality jump is huge.


Idon't disagree that quality jump might not be huge (better is probably more accurate), but you also have to consider the content also. I must have seen T2 and Fifth Element (have FE on Superbit) 100 times already, and don't think be spending more money on same title just for sake of better resolution and color.

And once the wow factor is gone , we re back to square one as far as content is concern. I rather spend on a movie on DVD that have not seen before.

Also check out this exhausting review where the reviewer put Toshiba DVD player against Onkyo DV-HD805 and Oppo DV-981HD upconvert players which cost 2 to 3 times more than Toshiba. And results are eye opener.

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B001D9IWIY/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop/002-7403116-8597635?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R211E844VYQ78D


Sir Terrance does NOT like to be contradicted. If you make that mistake you are likely to be called an ignorant peabrain and a liar.

In Rodney King voice......

"Can't we all get along without name calling" :D

[Mr Peabody]

Interesting review. He lost me a bit when he gave I think the Onkyo a 10 and 9.7. Did he say that was with the Reon Edge turned off? Maybe this is a feature. But wouldn't that actually make the Onkyo better than the XDE since he only gave XDE the highest score of 8.2?

[Smokey]

Interesting review. He lost me a bit when he gave I think the Onkyo a 10 and 9.7. Did he say that was with the Reon Edge turned off? Maybe this is a feature. But wouldn't that actually make the Onkyo better than the XDE since he only gave XDE the highest score of 8.2?

If you look closely, you will note that high score of 10 and 9.7 for Onkyo were from HD-DVD 1080P, not UpConvert SD DVD :)

[pixelthis]

I'd like to see where it says Toshiba is losing money on these players. No one who has a successful corporation like Toshiba would be so dumb as to enter into a money losing project after the HD-DVD war. Either way though Toshiba has a big marketing issue trying to explain to consumers why this player is better than other upconverting DVD players. This player is about the same price as a HD-DVd player was. It may have a nitch though for those wanting a great DVD picture who may not need SACD playback or wanting to pay for it.

An article I read from Assc.. Press said they picture was sharper and clearer on big screen TV's compared to other upconverting DVD players but Toshiba did not show a comparison of the player to BR. They admit that BR has 6 times the picture capacity and BR is not their intended competition. Toshiba claims the intent was to give DVD a sharper clearer picture on large screen TV's. I have to admit though if one had to pay the money for a 1080p to reap full benefit of this player you might as well go BR and get the full benefit of 1080p. We also have to keep in mind that the closest priced BR player is more than double the price of this Toshiba player.

On one hand many in the industry say Blu-ray is just a nitch still but on the other hand I see a lot of DVD dumping going on. Those intent on staying or keeping DVD can pick them up cheap now. Will a DVD exodus snowball? It wouldn't seem so but it does look like retailers are positioning for one. I have to admit some of the cheap prices are tempting, I saw 3 Schwartzenager movies in a package for $10.00 and picked them up. A place here in town is advertising DVD 3 for $12.00. That's cheaper than renting.

CEDIA is only a couple weeks away so it will be interesting to see what new products will be coming for Fall and further down the road how consumers vote with their dollars.

Pix, which BR player did you end up with?

Sorry for the late reply.
I have a friend that has to buy three of one thing, keeps taking stuff back, guess it extends the buying experience for him.
I set up his DSL and his new system, piped his computer sound and video to his HT, basic stuff, and he offered to let me have his Sony
BDPS300, ninety days same as cash.
So I wouldnt have to wait for the vacation pay.
HE got the Samsung, probably a lot like yours. No offense but I LIKE THE UPCONVERSION on the Sony better.
My main holdout on BLU was software, how would my collection of
"legacy" discs hold up?
Well so far so good, every disapointment (Italian job) has several
quality "upconversions" that rival BLU.
Anyway Blu players are getting cheaper ( a sony 300 was selling for 269, cant remember where I saw that) so I think it would be silly to buy
a comparable priced DVD player, weather OPPO , tosh or otherwise.
Just doesnt make sense, really.
upconverted discs are watchable, some are really amazing, but even the best pale in comparison to a decent BLU disc.
And its kinda like the phenom where that VHS tape you watch after weeks of DVD watching really looks like crap squared.
WELL, people buying these expensive "upconverters" are gonna be watching HD on the tube, mostly, and after watching real HD
for awhile any kind of "upconverted" anything will be disapointing.
A movie on disc is an "event", I WANT IT TO LOOK BETTER THAN REGULAR TV, and Blu does that, but since "regular" TV is HD, DVD
comes up short.
BLU wont kill off DVD like DVD killed laser, different situation,
but I think Blu will minimize DVD a great deal.
In other words you were right MR P, a BLU player is a great bargain,
especially since most now have HD sets, you can buy 1080p for 300 bucks or less, and thats not even mentioning the audio.
A lot of BLU DISCS are DTS, giving a meg and a half worth of sound
to those (the majority) with older gear, even the "plain" DD and dts
on Blu discs is better by far than even the best DVD.
People opting for a "regular" DVD player, especially the golden ears types, forget this. Music lovers trying to decide. DVD or BLU,
get a concert disc like DAVE MATHEWS , instead of standard movie
fare, listen to one of those not with one of the newer soundtracks,
but one of the "standard" DD or dts tracks.
That alone should comvince you to go blu.
And yes I STILL WATCH quite a bit of VOD, and am dlw even more from sites like VUZE, but BLU is the "event" I enjoy for something special.:1:

[pixelthis]

Idon't disagree that quality jump might not be huge (better is probably more accurate), but you also have to consider the content also. I must have seen T2 and Fifth Element (have FE on Superbit) 100 times already, and don't think be spending more money on same title just for sake of better resolution and color.

And once the wow factor is gone , we re back to square one as far as content is concern. I rather spend on a movie on DVD that have not seen before.

Also check out this exhausting review where the reviewer put Toshiba DVD player against Onkyo DV-HD805 and Oppo DV-981HD upconvert players which cost 2 to 3 times more than Toshiba. And results are eye opener.

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B001D9IWIY/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop/002-7403116-8597635?%5Fencoding=UTF8&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R211E844VYQ78D



In Rodney King voice......

"Can't we all get along without name calling" :D

no

You do know that tosh and Onkyo have a very close business relationship dont you?
Heres probably the best idea, just get a BLU player and the newest tosh "gimmick", around 450 bucks and you get the best of both worlds.
I would buy a tosh if I THOUGHT THE UPCONVERSION was much better than on my Sony Blu player, just to watch dvd on.
But I dont think it will be worth it, really:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

It would seem simple enough economics that IF a corporation lost 950 million dollars and wanted to stay in business they would not knowingly put a product on the market that would loose more money. So maybe you can break it down for me how continuous loss leads to profit.

Sorry peabrain, I didn't design Toshiba's business plan. They knew they were going to lose the HD on disc war, that didn't stop them from entering the market did it?


Terry you blurtted out an assumption you can't back up and all the name dropping from your imaginary friends can't cover your butt. So take a lesson from an old man, keep your mouth shut so you can't insert your foot. If my brain is small you shouldn't be picking on me. Shame on you for harassing the handicapped.

Peahead, I have learned not to put pearls before swine. You are too stupid to realize that maybe someone is more up on this subject than yourself. So, if my friends are imaginary, then you will just have to sit on your thumb, and believe your own press.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sir Terrance does NOT like to be contradicted. If you make that mistake you are likely to be called an ignorant peabrain :eek6: and a liar.

Actually Feanor, don't mind being contradicted at all. What I don't like is a no brained idiot who doesn't even know how HDMI works telling me stuff that is direct contridiction to the professionals who actually program Toshiba's Cell chips. Since the gentleman programs the chips, and knows the part cost to the player, it would seem to me that he would know more than some peahead that has never even broken a player open.

[Feanor]

Actually Feanor, don't mind being contradicted at all. What I don't like is a no brained idiot who doesn't even know how HDMI works telling me stuff that is direct contridiction to the professionals who actually program Toshiba's Cell chips. Since the gentleman programs the chips, and knows the part cost to the player, it would seem to me that he would know more than some peahead that has never even broken a player open.

Unlike Mr. Peabody, I'm not calling into question your buddyship with industry insiders, I'm questioning the choice of words in your rejoinder to him and various other people at various times.

But bearing on Toshiba's costs, unless your buddy actually knows the actual price negociated with Toshiba, you can't be entirely certain whether the latter is losing money on account of the chip. I dare say the chips have their MSRPs just like most stuff, but what the particular customer pays can be a different matter.

[Mr Peabody]

Sorry peabrain, I didn't design Toshiba's business plan. They knew they were going to lose the HD on disc war, that didn't stop them from entering the market did it?

* Another lame statement pulled from your back side. You have no way of supporting that statement. Toshiba fought a hard fight and I can still remember the doom and gloom in the BR camp when Paramount was bought to be HD-DVD exclusive. It wouldn't have taken much for things to go the other way.

Peahead, I have learned not to put pearls before swine. You are too stupid to realize that maybe someone is more up on this subject than yourself. So, if my friends are imaginary, then you will just have to sit on your thumb, and believe your own press.

* There could be some one more up on things but it isn't you. You are a wanna be, blow hard. For some one with all the inside info you don't give any more info or predictions than Pix or anyone else here. The only thing you are up on is your mouth.

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks, Smokey, for clearing that up.

[Mr Peabody]

Actually Feanor, don't mind being contradicted at all. What I don't like is a no brained idiot who doesn't even know how HDMI works telling me stuff that is direct contridiction to the professionals who actually program Toshiba's Cell chips. Since the gentleman programs the chips, and knows the part cost to the player, it would seem to me that he would know more than some peahead that has never even broken a player open.

* Terry, you are such a clown. Even though I posted enough links to info to show you are a fool, you still think you were right and want to claim I don't know HDMI. If you are going to bring up old discussions into new ones to use as reference, why don't you post the link to bring everyone up to speed, But you want to use insinuation to lie and make yourself look like something you aren't.

Besides this is supposed to be a forum where people can come to share ideas and information NOT to be belittled or put down because they weren't the first one to know. Terry you are a pathetic excuse of a human who feels he has to put down others to make yourself look better. I wonder if you really have others here fooled with your charade or they just don't want to come under fire from your nasty verbal assault. If anyone analyzed your posts and looked more for what is not said opposed to what was said they'd soon realize you are a poser.

[pixelthis]

* Terry, you are such a clown. Even though I posted enough links to info to show you are a fool, you still think you were right and want to claim I don't know HDMI. If you are going to bring up old discussions into new ones to use as reference, why don't you post the link to bring everyone up to speed, But you want to use insinuation to lie and make yourself look like something you aren't.

Besides this is supposed to be a forum where people can come to share ideas and information NOT to be belittled or put down because they weren't the first one to know. Terry you are a pathetic excuse of a human who feels he has to put down others to make yourself look better. I wonder if you really have others here fooled with your charade or they just don't want to come under fire from your nasty verbal assault. If anyone analyzed your posts and looked more for what is not said opposed to what was said they'd soon realize you are a poser.

Finally, someone who realizes that someone with this maturity level
cant be all he says.
I am not talking about the "name calling", but the quality of it.
Pea brain? CANT YOU DO BETTER THAN THAT?
Doo Doo head:1:

[Feanor]

...

Pea brain? CANT YOU DO BETTER THAN THAT?
Doo Doo head:1:

Like "Doo Doo head" for instance?????? :rolleyes:

[pixelthis]

Like "Doo Doo head" for instance?????? :rolleyes:

IF you don't get that one you're hopeless.
Get a job as an accountant or something:1:

[pixelthis]

Or go and get one of those new XDE players!!!
You sound like the target market:1:

[Feanor]

IF you don't get that one you're hopeless.
Get a job as an accountant or something:1:

I was an accountant for many years. :confused:

[GMichael]

I got it. Wasn't all that funny.

You guys sure do like to fight. A person could make a small fortune selling rotten eggs and old tomatoes around here.

Where's LJ with that popcorn?

[O'Shag]

This player must be decent for Toshiba to go to the trouble of streamlining the technology and releasing it. As far as I can remember the Toshiba HD-DVDs were among the better performing out there. With this technology there must be some merit to it. The way I see it, $150 is not a lot to ask for much improved picture quality. The price of BluRay software is still too high. If that software is to become the defacto standard it will have to drop way down in price, ie $12 - $20 for software. Only then will it replace DVD entirely. If Target,WalMart, or Circuit City for instance had many Blu Ray movies for sale at $7.50 $9.50 and $13.00, then it would replace DVD completely - after all the players are affordable now.

But this is not the case. So Toshiba have released a player that makes the most out of what is still the standard for the vast amjority of shoppers; standard definition DVD. Well done Toshiba.

[pixelthis]

I got it. Wasn't all that funny.

You guys sure do like to fight. A person could make a small fortune selling rotten eggs and old tomatoes around here.

Where's LJ with that popcorn?


Like you need rotten eggs(butterbeans for lunch? HMMMM?)
Anyway this player is a dumb idea with no market whatsoever.
Guarentee ya it'll be gone in a year, if it lasts that long:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Unlike Mr. Peabody, I'm not calling into question your buddyship with industry insiders, I'm questioning the choice of words in your rejoinder to him and various other people at various times.

I understand that you may not like what I say to these people, and that is okay. But my response to them is at exactly at the level they are. I would prefer that unknowledgeable people recognize exactly what they are, and stop trying to be more than they are. That way anyone can take their advice in the right context, or not at all. We already have too much misinformation on this board, and if this board is about exchanging accurate info, then we do not need anymore.


But bearing on Toshiba's costs, unless your buddy actually knows the actual price negociated with Toshiba, you can't be entirely certain whether the latter is losing money on account of the chip. I dare say the chips have their MSRPs just like most stuff, but what the particular customer pays can be a different matter.

My buddy knows the price that Toshiba paid for each of the components that went into that player, or else he would not have ever made the claim. He predicted that Samsung would abandon the Reon chips in their players after the 1200 came out because of the cost of implementing the chip into the player at that time, and the price points they where trying to meet at the time (less than $500) He was totally right. The 1400 came out, no reon chip. The 1500 came out, no reon chip. Both of these players are priced at below $500. He also said that Samsung was sold on the reon chip, but would only include it in players that are being priced at $600+. He was right again. The 2500 comes out with the reon chip, at its set to be priced at $700.

One you put in a chip like the Cell processor, or the reon upscaler, the cost of all downstream components becomes more expensive as well, or you will never get the quality of of them that the chip can provide. Kjack quite frankly has never been wrong about anything he has said, and there nothing that makes me disbelieve him this time. Since he is face deep in this business, and Mr Nobody is not, I would definately take his word over nobody's. The Cell processor in this implementation cost Toshiba about $60 by itself(the PS3 chip costs $90) in each player, even though they manufacture it themselves. Since his company programs these chips, he knows every part in the player itself, and knows the cost of each of the components as well.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* Terry, you are such a clown. Even though I posted enough links to info to show you are a fool, you still think you were right and want to claim I don't know HDMI. If you are going to bring up old discussions into new ones to use as reference, why don't you post the link to bring everyone up to speed, But you want to use insinuation to lie and make yourself look like something you aren't.

Your words:I've been told that when 2 pieces connect via HDMI that they share over 20 signals to see what each other can handle etc. So far this is just things I've been told, I haven't had a chance to really do much research on the matter

Mr. Nobody, the link you posted does not support your claim of 20 different communications going on in the HDMI protocol. Maybe you need to read it again

http://www.hdmi.org/devcon/presentations/2007_DevCon_SiliconImage_English.pdf

I think you are mixing up communications with data streams, though you would still be wrong on both accounts. If you carefully read what the new standard says, It is improving on what is already established, and adding a few new features, that by the way, no current component supports. Televisions may support xvycc, and deep color, and even the PS3 can output it. But it is not in the bluray standards(disc capacity would have to get larger than 50GB to support it) it wasn't in the HD DVD standards, and it is not in any component devices standards that I know of, so you would not find that stream in any current HDMI implementation. Lip sync is part of the standard, but A/V receivers already have that adjustment within them, so there is no need to pass that through HDMI. Dolby trueHD and Dts MA lossless bitstreams were added, but that is just two bitstreams that may or may not be present depending on if the player does the decoding, or the receiver does it. We still have not gotten to twenty communication have we? LOL Then they added a new connection for digital mini cams and digital cameras. Sorry, that would not be a communication would it? They added greater bandwidth. The problem is, there is nothing now that challenges the bandwidth we currently have. Please read your link(I even provided it for you) and clearly tell me where 20 different communications between two components are taking place. It does not take 20 different communications for two components to optimize and communicate the resolution of the display device to the output of the player. It takes just one from each component.


Besides this is supposed to be a forum where people can come to share ideas and information NOT to be belittled or put down because they weren't the first one to know. Terry you are a pathetic excuse of a human who feels he has to put down others to make yourself look better. I wonder if you really have others here fooled with your charade or they just don't want to come under fire from your nasty verbal assault. If anyone analyzed your posts and looked more for what is not said opposed to what was said they'd soon realize you are a poser.

You feel belittled because you now find that you don't know as much as you think you do. What good would the information be if it where not ACCURATE information, not just information. You seem to think that you can just post information, and that is the end. But if you information is not accurate, then it is not doing any good for anyone. You cannot attempt to take the high road and talk about belittling when you call me a name that isn't mine, and you throw verbal assaults yourself. Being a victim and a perpetrator is not possible.

How can you possibly analyze anything I say and determine that I am just a poser, when you do not understand the information yourself? You are alot of mouth, but you have yet to prove that I am inaccurate enough in my information to be dismissed as a mere "poser". When you make claims like this, you have to actually support it with information, or its just words. You are good at spreading just words, with no support whatsoever. You really cannot belittle a person that was not all that big in the first place.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This player must be decent for Toshiba to go to the trouble of streamlining the technology and releasing it. As far as I can remember the Toshiba HD-DVDs were among the better performing out there. With this technology there must be some merit to it. The way I see it, $150 is not a lot to ask for much improved picture quality. The price of BluRay software is still too high. If that software is to become the defacto standard it will have to drop way down in price, ie $12 - $20 for software. Only then will it replace DVD entirely. If Target,WalMart, or Circuit City for instance had many Blu Ray movies for sale at $7.50 $9.50 and $13.00, then it would replace DVD completely - after all the players are affordable now.

Actually Toshiba's PLAYERS were not the best performing at all. HD DVD standards were complete(which is still a dubious claim when they starting trying to push TL51), but the players were known for freezing up, skipping, or would not play back some discs at all. I own three HD DVD players, and one had to be replaced three times(the A1) before one was acceptable for playback, the other twice(A-35), and the third required two extra firmware updates(and a trip back to the factory for both) past the ones actually released to the public to get it to playback 24fps content correctly. As far as the pricing of discs, bluray is only on the average $5 more expensive than their DVD counterparts on new releases, so to me this is a red herring of an arguement. HD discs should be more money because you are getting a superior products on all fronts. Right now DVD is being bargained binned on older releases, so its largely cheaper price is artificial to move product.

Now to the XDE-500. It's processing does not work with display devices that do not have a resolution of 1080i/p, so all of the 720p folks are crap out of luck with this player. You cannot use all three processing modes at once, only two. It does no do resume play like all other DVD players do. The actually video chipset they use is an old Zoran chipset, but with new software doing all of the work(having a cell processor in it helps tremendously I am sure). If you want to draw an opinion based on users opinions, they are all over the place. So I decided to give one a try(its only 150 bucks, and could return it.) On my freshly calibrated 1080p RPTV and Sony G-90 projector at 1080p, the sharpness setting produced a sharper picture, to the point of unnatural making film based material look more video based. The contrast mode changed my gamma curve from the proper curve for both video and film, to an improper curve for both. When a display devices is properly calibrated, you do not need this enhancement. It is mainly for non calibrated setups that are looking to add salt and pepper to a perfect tasting dish. The color setting mainly focused on green and blue, and really didn't enhance anything else. One good thing about this player is that the sharpness application is dynamic and not fixed. So the processing is frame by frame, and not just one setting for all frames.

IMO(and it is just that) XDE is much better for those who have not calibrated their sets, like post enhancements so they can tweak to their own taste(and not abide by SMPTE standards), do not mind having their gamma curve changed, especially when it wasn't right in the first place, have sets or experience with upconverting players with poor deinterlacers(which most have), hence the need for sharpening of the image POST upconversion. If your television is properly calibrated, has a good deinterlacer(not many have), then this player is neither accurate nor particularly flattering if the object of obtaining accuracy true to the encoding is your bottom line. It does not perform miracles, that is for sure. A poorly encoded disc will still look bad(and I found worse) through the Toshiba.


But this is not the case. So Toshiba have released a player that makes the most out of what is still the standard for the vast amjority of shoppers; standard definition DVD. Well done Toshiba.

You might want to audition one before you congratulate them. The reviews are all over the place. What I have noticed from comments I have read is the player will appeal to a certain type of viewer, but not to others. What I mean by that is those who believe firmly in accuracy will not like this player at all. Those folks usually go to the trouble of calibrating their sets(whether they pay for it, or do it themselves), and have gone through the painstaking process of choosing a upconverting player with good deinterlacing.(that is the key to good upconversion, not the upconversion process itself) Those who like to tweak to taste, and accuracy be damned, will probably love it. Lastly I just want to add that if you have a display smaller than perhaps 50", forget about noticing the difference between the XDE processing, and just a common ordinary upconverting DVD player. This players processing bad or good is much more noticeable on displays that are 60" and more with the proper seating distance. Beware of any review that states they are watching it on a 50" sitting 9-10 feet away. It is more likely the reviewer likes sprinkling the salt and pepper rather than actually tasting it.

[Mr Peabody]

Blu-ray discs are at least $15.00 higher than a DVD on new releases.

Terry, if you really went back to that old thread provide that link. I doubt I posted the link you already posted since I avoid PDF like the plague and the first few pages didn't sound familiar and I'm not about to read all 40 or so. Furthermore, I'm not going to argue an argument we've already had.

[Mr Peabody]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]I understand that you may not like what I say to these people, and that is okay. But my response to them is at exactly at the level they are. I would prefer that unknowledgeable people recognize exactly what they are, and stop trying to be more than they are. That way anyone can take their advice in the right context, or not at all. We already have too much misinformation on this board, and if this board is about exchanging accurate info, then we do not need anymore.

> Yeah, heaven forbid we have any more "accurate" information

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Blu-ray discs are at least $15.00 higher than a DVD on new releases.

Terry, if you really went back to that old thread provide that link. I doubt I posted the link you already posted since I avoid PDF like the plague and the first few pages didn't sound familiar and I'm not about to read all 40 or so. Furthermore, I'm not going to argue an argument we've already had.

Nobody, this is just as I figured. Alot of mouth, nothing to support the lip service. If you doubt what you posted, I'll refresh your very small mind.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=27194&highlight=HDMI

Post #19

I used the PDF form of the same information that was done in HTML. You are at the least a cowardly spinless person who throws rocks, and then runs. In all three of the links you provided, there was not one mention of 20 different communication exchanges between two devices. Once again, if you actually understood what you posted, you would be embarrassed that you were still trying to advance the 20 different communication arguement, and think you were right. You are a joke that is just not funny.

New release blurays are not $15 more expensive than DVD. Amazon

Iron man DVD $22.95

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005JPS8/ref=br_nf_7_2?pf_rd_p=417259501&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=404332&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0Q067VND3TQ07DQ1PPWB

Bluray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Man-Ultimate-2-Disc-Blu-ray/dp/B00168ML1G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1220222006&sr=1-1

Nightmare Before Christmas DVD $22.95
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001AIRUOU/ref=br_nf_2_5?pf_rd_p=417259501&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=404332&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0Q067VND3TQ07DQ1PPWB

Nightmare before Christmas Bluray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Nightmare-Before-Christmas-Blu-ray-Digital/dp/B001AIRUP4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1220222006&sr=1-3

Indiana Jones DVD $22.95
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005JPO1/ref=br_nf_8_1?pf_rd_p=417259501&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=404332&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0Q067VND3TQ07DQ1PPWB

Bluray $27.95
http://www.amazon.com/Indiana-Jones-Kingdom-Crystal-Blu-ray/dp/B001E75QGG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1220226212&sr=1-2

I could go on with even more narrow price differences, but I think I have made my point.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]I understand that you may not like what I say to these people, and that is okay. But my response to them is at exactly at the level they are. I would prefer that unknowledgeable people recognize exactly what they are, and stop trying to be more than they are. That way anyone can take their advice in the right context, or not at all. We already have too much misinformation on this board, and if this board is about exchanging accurate info, then we do not need anymore.

> Yeah, heaven forbid we have any more "accurate" information

No chance of that with you, you can't even get the basics right.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Mr Peabody]

No chance of that with you, you can't even get the basics right.

AND yet we all would rather talk to him than you.
Even when we have an argument(and we have had some doozies)
he is still ten times the gentleman you will ever be.
You wasted all of that bandwidth with your (as usual) long winded
post to say a simple thing, this player is a trip to the past with SVM
and is basically a gimmick that will have the lifespan of a fruit-fly.
Any player that cant play Blu is obsolete outta the box.
When I got mine it was no hurry to get to the rental store, now they are
running outta titles, and some selections at wallmart are running low
last time I checked.
YOU CAN MANIPULATE a picture out the yin yang, you just cant beat
gigabytes, people I talk to in stores, etc, tell me that a Blu picture and sound can
get kinda addictive, and its a real format, not a gimmick:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]

AND yet we all would rather talk to him than you.
Even when we have an argument(and we have had some doozies)
he is still ten times the gentleman you will ever be.
You wasted all of that bandwidth with your (as usual) long winded
post to say a simple thing, this player is a trip to the past with SVM
and is basically a gimmick that will have the lifespan of a fruit-fly.
Any player that cant play Blu is obsolete outta the box.
When I got mine it was no hurry to get to the rental store, now they are
running outta titles, and some selections at wallmart are running low
last time I checked.
YOU CAN MANIPULATE a picture out the yin yang, you just cant beat
gigabytes, people I talk to in stores, etc, tell me that a Blu picture and sound can
get kinda addictive, and its a real format, not a gimmick:1:

And you pixie are the only person who can end up with egg on yer face, and think you have an omlet.

Go talk to him. You guys have alot in common. You guys know about as much about audio and hometheater as I know about kidney removal. You are Stu, and nobody is pid. Its takes both of you to form a single word. That's how much you know between you.:rolleyes:

[Mr Peabody]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible][QUOTE=pixelthis]

And I, pixie are the only person who can end up with egg on my face, and think I have an omlet.

Go talk to him. You guys have alot in common. You guys know about so much about audio and hometheater as I know about masterbating. You are awesome, and Peabody is my idol. Its takes both of you and you still can't penetrate my thick skull, ahuh ahuh duh, which way did he go Pix which way did he go?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible][QUOTE=pixelthis]

And I, pixie are the only person who can end up with egg on my face, and think I have an omlet.

Go talk to him. You guys have alot in common. You guys know about so much about audio and hometheater as I know about masterbating. You are awesome, and Peabody is my idol. Its takes both of you and you still can't penetrate my thick skull, ahuh ahuh duh, which way did he go Pix which way did he go?

Back away from the crack nobody. You have definately overdosed

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=pixelthis]

And you pixie are the only person who can end up with egg on yer face, and think you have an omlet.

Go talk to him. You guys have alot in common. You guys know about as much about audio and hometheater as I know about kidney removal. You are Stu, and nobody is pid. Its takes both of you to form a single word. That's how much you know between you.:rolleyes:

blah blah blah. this little bit of opinion from a clueless loser whe is waiting for CRT to make its huge comeback, as for what I or anybody
else "knows" it only took about a hundred posts to convince you that an interlace pic loses half its rez when moving.
All you know is what you can Google.
Too bad you can't GOOGLE A PERSONALITY.:1:

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=pixelthis]

And you pixie are the only person who can end up with egg on yer face, and think you have an omlet.

Go talk to him. You guys have alot in common. You guys know about as much about audio and hometheater as I know about kidney removal. You are Stu, and nobody is pid. Its takes both of you to form a single word. That's how much you know between you.:rolleyes:

AND I guess I know more about Kidney removal, since you think its difficult or something.
Kidney removal is eazy a twist of the knife at the right spot on the back, the Romans used to do it when they wanted someone to die painfully in about a week, if you were alive back then they could have read one of your posts to them.
Now, Kidney installation, now thats another kettle of fish entirely,
that takes skills.
Now skill, in anything, is something you are probably sorely lacking in,
which is why you became a corporate hack probably.
Got this publicity vid your company put out of you, is this you at your
best? :1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Pixel, anyone who cannot do a proper quote, or highlight the proper poster has no business talking about anyone else. I don't need google. I have enough sources and resources to make it un-needed. You on the other hand rely on your own press, which is about as current and relevant as headlines proclaiming your 101st birthday.

You have never owned a high end CRT projector or RPTV, so your comments are meaningless, just like you in particular.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]

blah blah blah. this little bit of opinion from a clueless loser whe is waiting for CRT to make its huge comeback, as for what I or anybody
else "knows" it only took about a hundred posts to convince you that an interlace pic loses half its rez when moving.
All you know is what you can Google.
Too bad you can't GOOGLE A PERSONALITY.:1:

A interlace picture does not lose half of its resolution during moving objects. Its loses its resolution based on how good its interlacer is. 50% is something you cannot quantify, because you have never measured that loss, its just a number you pulled out of the air. In the interlace mode(it can do both progressive and interlace), my RPTV loses only 15% of its resolution. You cheap azz panel not only loses 45 percent of its resolution during moving objects, and that is further lessened by the fact that the panel suffers from the worst motion blurring of all LCD's currently on the market. It does not do blacks at all(its grey), the proper colorspace for HD, not 1 to 1 pixel, and has one of the worst contrast measurements at 1000:1

When you get a better quality panel, then you can talk about my RPTV and projector. Until then, go get a second job so you can afford to get a better panel.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=pixelthis]

A interlace picture does not lose half of its resolution during moving objects. Its loses its resolution based on how good its interlacer is. 50% is something you cannot quantify, because you have never measured that loss, its just a number you pulled out of the air. In the interlace mode(it can do both progressive and interlace), my RPTV loses only 15% of its resolution. You cheap azz panel not only loses 45 percent of its resolution during moving objects, and that is further lessened by the fact that the panel suffers from the worst motion blurring of all LCD's currently on the market. It does not do blacks at all(its grey), the proper colorspace for HD, not 1 to 1 pixel, and has one of the worst contrast measurements at 1000:1

When you get a better quality panel, then you can talk about my RPTV and projector. Until then, go get a second job so you can afford to get a better panel.


ANY "panel" is better than your antique P.O.S.
and I do know the difference between grey and black.
ALSO MY "PANEL" is bright enough to see in a lit room,
although that probably doesnt matter to you, but if I looked like you did
I would spend a lot of time in the dark myself.
The truth is you blew all of that money on that crap because you had no clue, as usual, as to how things were going.
What an industry "prognosticator"!:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]


ANY "panel" is better than your antique P.O.S.
and I do know the difference between grey and black.
ALSO MY "PANEL" is bright enough to see in a lit room,
although that probably doesnt matter to you, but if I looked like you did
I would spend a lot of time in the dark myself.
The truth is you blew all of that money on that crap because you had no clue, as usual, as to how things were going.
What an industry "prognosticator"!:1:

Pixel, for the umpteeth time, you panel does not do 1440p, both of my CRT based displays do. Your panel BARELY does 720p, and it is not pixel for pixel anyway. Your panel does not have a measured contrast ratio of 50,000:1, both of my display do. Peak light is irrelevant in a properly calibrated set(since yours in not calibrated, it doesn't make any difference) so your whole light arguement is bogus. High light output and low contrast ratio mean grey blacks, not black blacks, no matter how you slice it. So you can go into denial if you want to, but I have seen your cheap azz panel at costco many moons ago. Not only did that cheap $hit exibit motion blur to the hilt, but blacks looked grey and washed out, as did the colors as well.

Since you have NEVER seen either of my displays, you are just being as usual an uneducated idiot that you always are. You have never even owned a high end projector or RPTV so what the hell do you know anyway. Your idea of high performance is springs on your shoes that makes dumpster diving easier to do.

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=pixelthis]

Pixel, for the umpteeth time, you panel does not do 1440p, both of my CRT based displays do. Your panel BARELY does 720p, and it is not pixel for pixel anyway. Your panel does not have a measured contrast ratio of 50,000:1, both of my display do. Peak light is irrelevant in a properly calibrated set(since yours in not calibrated, it doesn't make any difference) so your whole light arguement is bogus. High light output and low contrast ratio mean grey blacks, not black blacks, no matter how you slice it. So you can go into denial if you want to, but I have seen your cheap azz panel at costco many moons ago. Not only did that cheap $hit exibit motion blur to the hilt, but blacks looked grey and washed out, as did the colors as well.

Since you have NEVER seen either of my displays, you are just being as usual an uneducated idiot that you always are. You have never even owned a high end projector or RPTV so what the hell do you know anyway. Your idea of high performance is springs on your shoes that makes dumpster diving easier to do.

you're the one thats gonna be "dumpster diving", looking for the last remnants of the crt age.
1440p? Bull hockey. At that phosper pitch the direct view picture is gonna be dim enough, much less a projected view.
This is one reason I think youi're full of it, kinda like Peruvian skys the 2nd(or third?) makin stuff up.
At the end, people with high end systems needed two projectors alined
together to even get close enough to enough light, even in a dark room.
PHOSPER coatings on tubes were never intended to be a projection source, just direct view.
LOOKING at the last CRT RPTVS in stores I was amazed at just how dark they were, expecially next to the newer displays.
And the fact that you know nothing about twining projectors (or much of anything else) is just more proof that you're full of beans.
Just like that imaginary 1440p projector of yours, maybe they had a few commercial models, but I HEARD of few 1080p crts, much less
1440p.
Which makes you about as credible as this guy:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

[QUOTE=Sir Terrence the Terrible]

you're the one thats gonna be "dumpster diving", looking for the last remnants of the crt age.
1440p? Bull hockey. At that phosper pitch the direct view picture is gonna be dim enough, much less a projected view.

Sorry pixie, your OPINION is based on direct view, not projection. When you use 9" guns, light at that resolution is not a problem. It showed a full 1440p with test patterns, and was still way bright enough to meet SMPTE standards(do you know what this is? Doubt it). You have absolutely NO experience with high end projections systems, you even admit that yourself. So what basis do you have to make this OPINION? None, just like you 50% resolution loss, you are going by what you think, not what you know(guessing?)


This is one reason I think youi're full of it, kinda like Peruvian skys the 2nd(or third?) makin stuff up.
At the end, people with high end systems needed two projectors alined
together to even get close enough to enough light, even in a dark room.

What you neglected to mention (as you always do, skip the details) is that you have to stack projectors when you want to go beyond the rated screen size. A projection system based on 9" CRT do not have to be stacked when screen sizes are 130" or less.


PHOSPER coatings on tubes were never intended to be a projection source, just direct view.
LOOKING at the last CRT RPTVS in stores I was amazed at just how dark they were, expecially next to the newer displays.'

Sounds like a calibration issue, not a limitation of the technology. CRT's are not ment for viewing in bright lights, and neither are panels. Viewing in bright light skews contrast levels, even on panels. Joe Kane has mention this numerous times. Funny how you can quote him when you think it suits you, but reject everything else he say when it doesn't.

Looks like some clever engineer figured out how to make tubes work as projection system. Sam Runco did it, Electrohome did it, Sony did it, Zenith did it, Marantz did it. So much for your theory, but you cannot afford any of these brands anyway.


And the fact that you know nothing about twining projectors (or much of anything else) is just more proof that you're full of beans.
Just like that imaginary 1440p projector of yours, maybe they had a few commercial models, but I HEARD of few 1080p crts, much less
1440p.
Which makes you about as credible as this guy:1:

The Sony G-90, Runco's 9" and the Electrohome 9" CRT based projectors have been able to do 1440p for years. There were never test signals that could show it till now. How do you know I do not know about stacking projectors? More assumptions I guess, since that is something you are good at, assuming everything, knowing nothing.

A whole world could be created on what you do not know. So just because YOU haven't heard of it, does not mean they don't exist. Since they are out of your budget anyway, I am not surprised you haven't heard. You are a bottom feeder, they don't usually pay any attention to the high end anyway.

[Mr Peabody]

Pix, Mr. 1440 said he uses a $12.00 HDMI cable, here he wants to pretend to be a high roller. Terry is so full of crap you can smell him coming online.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Pix, Mr. 1440 said he uses a $12.00 HDMI cable, here he wants to pretend to be a high roller. Terry is so full of crap you can smell him coming online.

A little bitter peahead that you were not able to spread that price does matter lie on HDMI cables? As long as that $12.00 cable can pass 1080p HDMI 1.3a based video without any loss of PQ(and test have prove it can) and all of the older and newer audio codecs(and test prove it can) then can you tell me why it is smarter to pay $150.00 for that cable rather than $12.00 on a cable that is just as good?

You were stupid. And then you try and start the lie that your PQ and AQ were better with the $150 dollar cable ignorantly thinking like analog audio; better cables mean better PQ and AQ. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way Mr Nobody. The link proved that.

Your ignorance is staggering.

I spent my money where it counts. Amps, speakers, decent interconnects and speaker cable. What I do not do is try and stick my chest out because I stupidly paid more money than I needed to on something that well made, could be had for cheaper. Ya big dummy!!($1 to Fred Sanford)

[Mr Peabody]

A little bitter peahead that you were not able to spread that price does matter lie on HDMI cables? As long as that $12.00 cable can pass 1080p HDMI 1.3a based video without any loss of PQ(and test have prove it can) and all of the older and newer audio codecs(and test prove it can) then can you tell me why it is smarter to pay $150.00 for that cable rather than $12.00 on a cable that is just as good?

* Your tests are bogus, as you are. My original cable was $40.00 and didn't do the job and I doubt a $12.00 cable would.

You were stupid. And then you try and start the lie that your PQ and AQ were better with the $150 dollar cable ignorantly thinking like analog audio; better cables mean better PQ and AQ. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way Mr Nobody. The link proved that.

* The link proves nothing. I have no reason to lie and the benefit I gained was well worth the $150.00. The fact that all you can say is the "the link", "the link", shows you are as ignorant as you are phony and don't know a power button from a power cable. The 1's and 0's are still an electrical signal. You are a jack ass that sits around watching and old rear projector with a bunch of rehabbed Mach One's calling your system custom when it was probably all gotten out of the trash. You are a janitor who lives his life in a dream. You are the lie.

Your ignorance is staggering.

* Only to a fool like you who don't have the mind capacity to understand anything.

I spent my money where it counts. Amps, speakers, decent interconnects and speaker cable. What I do not do is try and stick my chest out because I stupidly paid more money than I needed to on something that well made, could be had for cheaper. Ya big dummy!!($1 to Fred Sanford)

* Maybe you should spend your money on some therapy.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* Maybe you should spend your money on some therapy.

Maybe you should start proving that you are not hearing and seeing things like I suspect your are. Where is the proof of your assertions? Or is this just another cowardly throw a rock and run moment? By now you should be spittin and $hittin feathers!

Show me the proof poof! Prove the test on my cables is bogus, I wanna see a link. Your overly emotional anecdotal BS ain't gonna cut it foo. And can you please work on your quotes, you and pixie crap is sometimes unreadable. All that other blather you mention is an attempt to cover your azz because you have been debunked! Can anyone say deflection?

[Mr Peabody]

Terry, I'm not surprised you have trouble reading anything. I will show you proof when you show me you aren't just a bumbling idiot troll.

Besides that you don't have any real experience, you are just showing links, you have never tried comparing cables. You are a parrot mauking what ever trash you pick up on the net.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Terry, I'm not surprised you have trouble reading anything. I will show you proof when you show me you aren't just a bumbling idiot troll.

Yeah sure you will. When the sun freezes you will, because you have no proof. Its just another audio and video myth to be swept under the carpet. Something to crow about, that is all. Ya made a expensive fat headed stupid purchase, that is all there is to this. Then you go through all of these immature fits just to justify what you have done, and attempt to make anyone that does not agree with non credible.


Besides that you don't have any real experience, you are just showing links, you have never tried comparing cables. You are a parrot mauking what ever trash you pick up on the net.

You do not know what I have, and have not done. More assumption, more deflection. Without emperical proof of your claims, you are just expousing a myth. Anyone with an understanding of how HDMI works can see right through you coward.

Lastly, you have never seen my speakers, or been to my house. How do you know what I own? Or what I gave away? Deflection, deflection......

[Mr Peabody]

Well, Terry, if I'm all that and HDMI is so different, I don't see you telling us how. PARROT, PARROT.

Like I've always said, no one has to take my word, they just need to try for themselves. The way retailers work now, there is nothing to lose. But if they don't try, they can lose out in potential performance.

You are such a clown.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well, Terry, if I'm all that and HDMI is so different, I don't see you telling us how. PARROT, PARROT.

There you go again trying to shovel crap back. You made the assertions, the burden of proof is on you. If you cannot prove what you say. then it is a bald faced lie. It is not up to me to prove what you state peabrain. It is not up to me to tell anyone how, it is up to you to prove scientifically that more expensive cables equal better performance.


Like I've always said, no one has to take my word, they just need to try for themselves. The way retailers work now, there is nothing to lose. But if they don't try, they can lose out in potential performance.

You are such a clown.

Since you have allowed me the option of not taking your word, I won't. I want scientific proof. If you cannot provide that, stop being a coward, and a deflectionist and say so.

Personally, I think you are just another liar that has been caught in his lie.

[Mr Peabody]

Well, Terry, your little bogus link and your mouth don't prove that I'm wrong and if you are too lazy to see for yourself then I guess you are out of luck because that's all you get. Until everyone else who posts here has to produce proof of what they post, I will continue in the same privilege.

Others who have posted here who work for electronics companies have no problem saying who they work for and what position and give their contact info. They are even helpful. None of this you have ever done. You are a troll pretending to be something you aren't. The proof is all over this board, so please, don't go there trying to wiggle out of anything. You are pure pollution.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well, Terry, your little bogus link and your mouth don't prove that I'm wrong and if you are too lazy to see for yourself then I guess you are out of luck because that's all you get. Until everyone else who posts here has to produce proof of what they post, I will continue in the same privilege.

I still do not see proof the testing is bogus, just that you state it is. You have already admitted that you are not an electrical engineer(which is quite obvious), so how would you know the test is bogus? Because it doesn't agree with your overly emotional, untested, and quite frankly unscientific assertions? Figures, your bionic eyes and ears are far better than any old testing equipment huh?


Others who have posted here who work for electronics companies have no problem saying who they work for and what position and give their contact info. They are even helpful. None of this you have ever done. You are a troll pretending to be something you aren't. The proof is all over this board, so please, don't go there trying to wiggle out of anything. You are pure pollution.

Where I work has nothing to do with this discussion. Does this topic read "where does Sir T work? No, it does not. This is just another tool of deflection. If I wanted you to have my personal information, I would have given it to you. I didn't know you had to tell your life story just to prove a liar is a liar. I didn't see you post your private information before telling that outrageous lie that was easily disproven.

Deflection, deflection. Don't you know more than this?

[Mr Peabody]

I still do not see proof the testing is bogus, just that you state it is. You have already admitted that you are not an electrical engineer(which is quite obvious), so how would you know the test is bogus? Because it doesn't agree with your overly emotional, untested, and quite frankly unscientific assertions? Figures, your bionic eyes and ears are far better than any old testing equipment huh?

* I know it's bogus because I have hands on experience that shows me so.

Where I work has nothing to do with this discussion. Does this topic read "where does Sir T work? No, it does not. This is just another tool of deflection. If I wanted you to have my personal information, I would have given it to you. I didn't know you had to tell your life story just to prove a liar is a liar. I didn't see you post your private information before telling that outrageous lie that was easily disproven.

* But, Lil Terry, is the only one posing as some one who works in the industry. Doing so thinking every one will be stupid enough just to swallow everything you say.

Deflection, deflection. Don't you know more than this?

* You taught me well.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

* You taught me well.


* I know it's bogus because I have hands on experience that shows me so.

Let's clarify something here. You participated in this exact test in the link and can confirm the test in this link is bogus? Or are you saying you participated in a test that turned out to be bogus, and now all testing is bogus? That would be quite a reach just to support the notion that your eyes and ears are super bionic, and superior to measuring instruments.


* But, Lil Terry, is the only one posing as some one who works in the industry. Doing so thinking every one will be stupid enough just to swallow everything you say.

This is a red herring of a point. If someone was going to question whether I work in the movie industry or not, all they would have to do is look at the accuracy of what I post. Now, I have been posting on audioreview exactly ten years save maybe a year when I was too busy to post. There are very few who have been here that long. But ask Kex, Wooch, Smokey, JSE, or any other long term member here about the accuracy of my posts. That ought to shed some light for ya. It doesn't require a dig into my personal life to know what I do for a living. It ought to be pretty obvious after I have said it around here for ten years, and proved I know what I talk about here. Besides, did you post your personal information before making that silly ignorant claim? How are you qualified to make the claim, but I am not qualified to rebutt you? Pissy arrogance. Get your azz off of your shoulders, even science has to prove what it claims.


* You taught me well.

Ohhh noooooo, I couldn't take credit for this. You and I haven't really had all that much interaction for you to learn this that fast. You were well skilled with this before I ever knew who you were, or ever had a online conversation with you.

[pixelthis]

I have thought that there is little (if any) difference in HDMI cables,
digital is... digital.
BUT I have heard repeatedly that the HDMI cable matters, there are several antedotal stories to back up mr P.
I have a 20 buck cable from monoprice, and a 40 buck cheapie
from circuit city (cheapest they had) and the pic is spectacular,
but even a few percent improvement would warrant a better cable:1:

[jenilopaz]

In the US picture quality is barely different from a player costing half as much, swing and a miss Toshiba. Now incorporate this into a blu-ray player so people can play blu-ray AND get some extra use out of their DVD's and we might start listening.

Sharp Mode offers improved detail enhancement that is one step closer to high definition. Edges are sharper and details in films are more visible. Unlike traditional sharpness control, XDE technology analyses the entire picture and adds edge enhancement precisely where it's needed


Colour Mode makes the colours of nature stand out with improved richness. Blues and greens are more vivid and lifelike. Colour Mode combines the improvement in colour with the detail enhancement of Sharp Mode and is ideal for outdoor scenes


Contrast Mode is designed to make darker scenes or foregrounds more clearly visible without the typical "washing out" that can occur with traditional contrast adjustment. Recommended for dark scenes where detail may be difficult to notice, Contrast Mode is also combined with Sharp Mode to provide a clearer viewing experience
-----------------------------------------------------
Jenilopaz

Guaranteed ROI (http://www.drivenwide.com)

[Rich-n-Texas]

The Drivenwide.com shill is back. New name, same link.

[GMichael]

(Mike steps up to the water cooler)
Hey guys, how's it going?
(P pushes T into the cooler and it rocks against the wall)
(T shoves P back and takes a swing at Pix)
Hey wait guys. We're all friends here.
(A new guy steps up and hands out fliers on how to make your first million)
(Tex points out that the best way to make your first million is to hand out fliers on how to make your first million)
Forget it guys. I'll be back when everyone cools off.
(Mike kicks over the cooler on the way out)
Oh, yeah, and HDMI cable absolutely, and without a doubt ...........
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
...are HDMI cables.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have thought that there is little (if any) difference in HDMI cables,
digital is... digital.
BUT I have heard repeatedly that the HDMI cable matters, there are several antedotal stories to back up mr P.
I have a 20 buck cable from monoprice, and a 40 buck cheapie
from circuit city (cheapest they had) and the pic is spectacular,
but even a few percent improvement would warrant a better cable:1:

Anecdotal stories are subject to the placebo effect. I prefer science that supports the notion that expensive cable is better than well made cheaper cable, because testing has proven just the opposite. Cables do not produce better digital signals, that is left up to the quality of the D/A converters, whether we are talking audio or video. A poorly made cable at any price will fail the 1080p test, even if it passes 720p or 1080i.

[Smokey]

Anecdotal stories are subject to the placebo effect. I prefer science that supports the notion that expensive cable is better than well made cheaper cable, because testing has proven just the opposite. Cables do not produce better digital signals, that is left up to the quality of the D/A converters, whether we are talking audio or video. A poorly made cable at any price will fail the 1080p test, even if it passes 720p or 1080i.

Very well said sir TT :thumbsup:

When it comes cables, quality vs price is not always linear :)

[pixelthis]

Very well said sir TT :thumbsup:

When it comes cables, quality vs price is not always linear :)

Cheaper cable may be better than some expensive cables,
thats not the point.
Its always been a truism that digital is digital , and I HAVE TENDED TO GO ALONG WITH THAT, however they also said that a digital TV signal
was either there with a perfect pic or not at all, and I HAVE RECEIVED TV signals in widely varying quality when I had an attenna.
The history of "science" is a strong theory being proven wrong, and some cables might be so poorly constructed as to cause signal loss on a minor scale that the human eye can detect that dedicated instruments cant.
This is a repeated theme with sir talky's posts, he relies solely on
"instruments" like an autistic child relies on seing his favorite show
every day.
I know from sad experience that a "technically perfect" signal can sometimes look like crap.:1:

[E-Stat]

Cables do not produce better digital signals, that is left up to the quality of the D/A converters, whether we are talking audio or video. A poorly made cable at any price will fail the 1080p test, even if it passes 720p or 1080i.
Which, like analog cables, may completely miss the point. I'll venture out with this thread and do my first non-experiential theorizing. I have some HDMI cables, but unlike the contingent of "all cables sound the same" guys will readily admit I have not done any direct comparisons myself.

Cables are used in systems. Systems use various components, each of which has its own electrical sensitivities. I can easily see where weakly shielded digital cables used in the real world could affect nearby low and high level amplification stages.

rw