MMA: Lemme speak on this...

[bobsticks]

Anybody out there like the fight game? Throughout the years the various MMA federations have quietly advanced to the point where the situation is reminiscent of boxing a few decades ago...a lot of talent and several federations competing for legitimacy and the consumer dollars.

It's true too that the sport has evolved from a savage no-rules, no-holds-barred backroom activity to a well-regulated and more consumer-friendly activity.

Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=A0WTWclkxqhItlMAEQI9Eo14?slug=dd-mmaranks081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns) maintains a ranking system for the various players throughout the world. Granted, the viewpoint is probably lacking for some of the fighters from lesser federations but mostly they seem to stick to some bizarre voting pattern based on the concept of "best pound for pound" fighter.

There seems to be a lot of discussion across the net on the top three, George St. Pierre, Fedor Emilianenko, and Anderson Silva.
All three are from different weight classes and have displayed at times almost superhuman capabilities and talents ion their own way.

Frankly, I prefer Emilianenko. Throughout his career he has consistently fought top performers (admittedly less so in the last few years) and has, in fact, faced several fighters that outwiegh him by 100 lbs. or more. His one "loss' came from a stoppage after an opponent used an illegal maneuver.

Clearly, all three---and indeed the entire top ten---is comprised of elite athletes and to that extent the conversation prolly hasn't got one "right answer". But, really, that's just me being diplomatic. Fedor is a demon, a massive Russian sambo champion and destroyer of anything in front of him...

Thoughts? Comments?

[Worf101]

I like the idea of MMA and I even like watching it at times. It has increased in popularity for several reasons:

1. It cleaned up its act and stopped trying to be "Bloodsport".
2. Boxing has no heavyweight division to speak of anymore.
3. These guys actually FIGHT!!!!
4. Boxing is completely rudderless.
5. MMA is cheaper to promote.

I like it, but I see it going the way of boxing quite quickly though. The problems I see on MMA's future are:

1. The drift towards "manufactured" talent (Kimbo Slice).

2. Too many federations and sanctioning bodies like boxing vying to dominance with too many champions.

3. Still a tad too bloody for granma and granpa.

4. Great demographics (young horny males) but they don't buy much just pizza and bootleged/ripped music and movies.

But all in all there are currently more pluses than minuses.

Da Worfster

[kexodusc]

Oooh yeah, now you're speakin' my language.

Best lb for lb fighter? I dunno...I tend to agree with Silva being the best - he's looked the most impressive to me over his last few fights. IMHO, GSP has faced the best competition of the top 3 the last few years, and IIRC, he's the only one with a loss to Serra. Everyone knows about his personal problems leading up to the fight and it just shows how narrow the difference is between the good and the great fighters. If it wasn't for that I'd say GSP hands down, but he never should have lost to Serra. In fact, in the last 2 years I don't think any fighter has improved as much as GSP and that's scary...except for maybe Penn and that fight should be great.

Emilianenko beat guys like Coleman, Hunt, and Lindland rather convincingly, but I can't say they were top of the weight class.

Silva just makes it look easy...that guy is a treat to watch.

[3-LockBox]

One of the reasons that MMA (in its various forms) has flourished is the access. Its on a few different channels now, and many of the big bouts are seen on TV on a semi-regular basis - when's the last time you saw a relevant boxing match? How many current boxers can you name?

Remember when most of us were kids and guys like Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Forman and Ken Norton were either fighting on TV (even if it was taped) or they were appearing on talk shows and variety shows. The heavy weight division was covered by all media and most all champion boxers were household names.

Boxing went the way of pay-per-view for all of its big bouts, even the preliminary fights. Closed circuit TV is not new to pro boxing; most all the championship fights were on closed circuit and didn't get aired on regular TV till about a week later, but many of boxing's big bouts were shown in prime-time - I remember watching Jerry Clooney and Ken Norton fighting for the right to face Larry Holmes - in primetime! Muhammad Ali's loss to Leon Spinks was live, so was the phenominal rematch. I saw a lot of boxing on TV, whether it was the heavy weight division or the lower divisions, which by the '80s had over-taken the heavy weight class in popularity. ABC sports used to showcase ameture boxing every Saturday.

But it was also the '80s when boxing splintered into so many different federations that it mimmicked pro wrestling (where every TV station that carried wrestling had its own 'world' champion). It became confusing trying to keep track of the middle weight classes because each sanctioning body had a different name for the same weight class. Then came what should have been the guy who could resusitate boxing in Mike Tyson, but then he became a three-ring circus and imploded.

Or, you could just blame Don King.

But Worf is right, MMA id getting close to boxing territory with the championships getting more and more political, where marketability becomes a factor, instead of the action.

But those who diss MMA have no idea what its about. These are technically gifted athletes. I know people see those choke outs and submission holds and think its barbaric, but these guys are in less danger grappling than if they spent 10 to 12 rounds taking head shots. Arm and leg injuries heal - dane bramage don't.

[bobsticks]

Some thoughts:

1) Absolutely true that there are too many sanctioning bodies but I suspect that we'll see some of that disappear as some go bankrupt or are cannibalized by UFC. Them Fertittas and Jackass Dana are only beginning to really grasp the fight game. It does currently lead to an unnecessary level of poltical intrigue into potential matchups and never-will-be's.

2) While I don't disagree that Kimbo is "manufactured" I don't necessarily think that it's wrong. Anybody with over a million YouTube Hits is gonna be some good promo. And I think, maybe uncharacteristically of the fight game in general, they're treating him right.
Kimbo started off as nothing more than a skilled brawler, which is impressive enough but not what it takes for success at this level. There's a rare clip out there of him going ten minutes with Sean Gannon, a former UFC fighter and cop. Gannon was never even very good and took Kimbo to the limit.
Point being, they're doing the right thing by having Baz Rutten train him. The last thing anyone needs is another Bob Sapp and without some major ground training and cardio Big Slice was well on the way. I don't think he'll ever be the "Great Black Hope" but he could develop into a force to be reckoned with.

3) A compelling argument can be made for any of the top three. Silva has looked great but has also taken some losses. GSP the same, although his recent fight with Fitch wa a one-sided pummeling...and Fitch ain't no joke.

I'll tell you my reasoning behind supporting Fedor---and agin, this is nothing more than an opinion and preference---but the man is a beast. I think more than any other he has the ability to fight against any opponent. He can take on the small guys and, in fact, take on and convincingly defeat the Super Heavywieghts. I'm not sure Silva or St. Pierre could take on Zulu or Hung Man Choi or even Big Nog.

Throw into the equation his ability to withstand punishment and his performances are even more amazing. Ever see his bout with Randleman...ol' boy took a suplex right on the noggin' and came up completely unphased. Of note too would be the fact that unlike many who fight in one sport under limited contract, Fedor regularly defends his World Sambo Championship, another combat sport at which he's never lost.


Overall my own sentiments mirror 3LB's. There's an amazing number of skilled athletes and while the difference between "good" and "great" may not be that much t acounts for something. I think the sport has alot to offer and a bright future.

[Worf101]

I'm not dissin' it at all, I find it fascinating to be in on a sport in its infancy. And I know they're phenominal athletes and alike. I just hope they can hold it together and make it work the "right" way and don't decend in to the depths that boxing (also my former fave sport 3LB) sunk to.

Da Worfster

[kexodusc]

Some thoughts:

1) Absolutely true that there are too many sanctioning bodies but I suspect that we'll see some of that disappear as some go bankrupt or are cannibalized by UFC. Them Fertittas and Jackass Dana are only beginning to really grasp the fight game. It does currently lead to an unnecessary level of poltical intrigue into potential matchups and never-will-be's.

I think with boxing as a precedent, we won't ever have to worry about MMA going that route - as long as there's tv ratings, there'll be UFC on TV. That'll sell the PPV. Really, they've followed the pro-wrestling blueprint more than the pro-boxing blueprint. How successful Pride and Elite and Affliction etc all do? Who knows. Competition is good IMO, but I hope greed and greedy promoters don't ruin the chance for all the dream fights we want to see.


3) A compelling argument can be made for any of the top three. Silva has looked great but has also taken some losses. GSP the same, although his recent fight with Fitch wa a one-sided pummeling...and Fitch ain't no joke.

I'll tell you my reasoning behind supporting Fedor---and agin, this is nothing more than an opinion and preference---but the man is a beast. I think more than any other he has the ability to fight against any opponent. He can take on the small guys and, in fact, take on and convincingly defeat the Super Heavywieghts. I'm not sure Silva or St. Pierre could take on Zulu or Hung Man Choi or even Big Nog.

Throw into the equation his ability to withstand punishment and his performances are even more amazing. Ever see his bout with Randleman...ol' boy took a suplex right on the noggin' and came up completely unphased. Of note too would be the fact that unlike many who fight in one sport under limited contract, Fedor regularly defends his World Sambo Championship, another combat sport at which he's never lost.

Hmm, yeah...if you had asked me best fighter period I'd probably have taken Fedor as I do think he would overwhelm GSP and probably scare Silva even...gawd that'd be a dream fight...but lb for lb my completely unscientific method forces me to discount the man's size to equalize the playing field a bit. Maybe I'm wrong. Silva looks so precise and I don't think Fedor's faced anything close to a fighter at that level.

In terms of being able to fight any opponent - I think that is also GSP's strength. He's out wrestled good wrestlers, out brawled strikers and out BJJ'd grapplers. Seems he doesn't get the respect he deserves, wonder if it's a language thing? The man's an expert at nothing but very good at everything - the new prototypical MMA fighter. I think his only flaw is he's human, perhaps more emotional than other fighters and has to work at his mental game. I tend to believe in recent years he has fought a lot more high caliber opponents (not necessarily more popular or bigger names though) than the other 2 (victims of the lack of depth in their weight classes). Some of those guys are big names, but haven't been big deals for a few years. Let's face it, BJ Penn at it his cheeseburger eating worse is probably as good as any #2 at any weight class. And I didn't think that match should have gone to the split, GSP was born that day.
With the heavyweights, the 1 punch-ko striking game plays a bigger role and it daws draw bigger crowds - skill for skill I think the smaller guys bring more.

Man, if you ask me again next week I'll probably switch from Silva to GSP or Fedor...lb for lb questions are always tough, but fun.


Overall my own sentiments mirror 3LB's. There's an amazing number of skilled athletes and while the difference between "good" and "great" may not be that much t acounts for something. I think the sport has alot to offer and a bright future.
It is part of the new pop culture in a big way - the goofy skeletal-print black and white T-shirts, and the surge in local MMA startup competitions all over North America are evidence of that. What is it with 18-30 year olds and need to look "tuff"? Anyway, MMA isn't knew - it's been kinda popular since 1993, and if not for all the legal problems of the "old UFC" in the mid/late 90's, we would have been where we are a lot sooner. Dana White, for all his egomaniacal flaws, has done a good job selling the technical side of MMA instead of the brute gore side of it.
Why aren't these guys at the Olympics?

[3-LockBox]

I'm not dissin' it at all,

I didn't think you were - I wasn't really referring to anyone participating in this thread. My wife for one, hates it, but then again, she hates boxing.

Yeah, I hope the MMAs can avoid the political pitfalls that boxing fell into, and I also hope it avoids not only manufactured talent, but also manufactured outcomes. Pro wrestling has long been known for its predetermined outcomes, but still makes big bucks; sure its on the wane, but its survived for 50 years as is.

[bobsticks]

So much for Chuck Liddell. Mebbe he and Don Frye can team-up for the first ever tag-team MMA fight against Ken Shamrock and William Shatner.

[kexodusc]

So much for Chuck Liddell. Mebbe he and Don Frye can team-up for the first ever tag-team MMA fight against Ken Shamrock and William Shatner.
I dunno...Liddell looked as good as ever...mebbe it's time the world recognized the pure underrated brilliance of Rashad Evans? Adjust your positioning and game plan so as to render your opponents offense ineffective, then rely on your very dangerous, seemingly unstoppable weapons to put your opponent away...there's reason nobody's beating him...

[Rich-n-Texas]

I dunno...Liddell looked as good as ever...mebbe it's time the world recognized the pure underrated brilliance of Rashad Evans? Adjust your positioning and game plan so as to render your opponents offense ineffective, then rely on your very dangerous, seemingly unstoppable weapons to put your opponent away...there's reason nobody's beating him...
What world are you talking about? Jupiter? It's football season now fellas. :p

[bobsticks]

I dunno...Liddell looked as good as ever...mebbe it's time the world recognized the pure underrated brilliance of Rashad Evans? Adjust your positioning and game plan so as to render your opponents offense ineffective, then rely on your very dangerous, seemingly unstoppable weapons to put your opponent away...there's reason nobody's beating him...

Hold the phone there Big K. I am under no circumstances downplaying Evans' skills. Mad they are, to be sure...and I'll agree that he is/was drastically underappreciated...but fighting Liddell these days ain't the same as even a year ago. Just watch how often he drops his left or leans into something. Mebbe he's focusing on other areas but fundamentals have not been his strong suit of late.

[kexodusc]

Hold the phone there Big K. I am under no circumstances downplaying Evans' skills. Mad they are, to be sure...and I'll agree that he is/was drastically underappreciated...but fighting Liddell these days ain't the same as even a year ago. Just watch how often he drops his left or leans into something. Mebbe he's focusing on other areas but fundamentals have not been his strong suit of late.

Well you could be on to something.

Personally, I found Lidell to be a bit on the overrated side, not that he's not deserving of being one of the very elite all time greats, but he's always had some serious vulnerabilities. He's great against those Jiu-Jitsu types, and loves to mix it up with the wrestlers and ground n' pounders, but he's struggled against strikers his whole career, if you can call still being one of the best struggling. But his last few losses are to Rampage x 2, Evans, and kickboxin' Jardine...And he had a helluva fight with Silva who can land a few too...see a pattern? They gots the skilz on their feet to make the Iceman look human.
So maybe Chuck's not losing a step, just fighting tougher match-ups vs more well rounded opponents than eariy in his career.
And I think that's the case. There's fewer 1 dimensional fighters these days, now they're all sorta multi-functional fighers.

I've always found Lidell to be a bit of a gambler. Willing to take a few shots to land his own haymakers. Sometimes he gets caught, is all. He didn't look too bad last night, not nearly as bad as in the Rampage fights.



He's probably had a helluva time with the injury setback too, and jumping into Rashad Evans might not have been the best rehab strategy...

[bobsticks]

Anybody interested in the Lesnar/Couture bout? I'm all about if only to see lesnar elevated and Couture get a warm-up in before the big dance. Evidently Lesnar, who admittedly has the most to gain, is a bit giddy himself... http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=A2KIPF0GU9FIHRkAAQI9Eo14?slug=dd-mmarankings091108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I'm ready to concede that a Lesnar victory could potentially hurt the sport in the short term, as it would deflate the possibilty of a Fedor/Couture fight but nonetheless I'm down. I view Lesnar as a more polished Kimbo, but maybe I'm the only one to see the upside of both.

What's up with Tito's head?

[bobsticks]

... view Lesnar as a more polished Kimbo, but maybe I'm the only one to see the upside of both.

What's up with Tito's head?

Who was the punch-drunk assclown that saw an upside...er...um...scratch that.

<div><object width="220" height="170"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k242ZZlqAxyZiFN6ZG&colors=background:210C0C;&related=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k242ZZlqAxyZiFN6ZG&colors=background:210C0C;&related=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="220" height="170" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6yvls_kimbo-slice-vs-seth-petruzelli_sport">Kimbo Slice vs Seth Petruzelli</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/_Luk">_Luk</a></i></div>

[kexodusc]

Anybody interested in the Lesnar/Couture bout? I'm all about if only to see lesnar elevated and Couture get a warm-up in before the big dance. Evidently Lesnar, who admittedly has the most to gain, is a bit giddy himself... http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=A2KIPF0GU9FIHRkAAQI9Eo14?slug=dd-mmarankings091108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I'm ready to concede that a Lesnar victory could potentially hurt the sport in the short term, as it would deflate the possibilty of a Fedor/Couture fight but nonetheless I'm down. I view Lesnar as a more polished Kimbo, but maybe I'm the only one to see the upside of both.

What's up with Tito's head?

Kimbo's a bad dude, but I always felt execution could overcome his nastiness. Gawd, it didn't even seem like he got rocked that hard. Poof. Funny how Petruzelli went on record saying Elite XC offered him more cash to not take Kimbo to the ground and expose his limits...instead he slugged it out and beat Kimbo at his own game in about 8 seconds.

As for Lesnar. I'm a bit worried he's being fed to Couture too early. But in fairness, Lesnar dominated both his UFC opponents and got caught once. Herring and Mir aren't exactly "average" fighters either so Lesnar isn't being fed soft opponents by any means.
He's got the background to out-wrestle Couture. He can probably outslug him. And his superhuman strength should be able to compensate for a lot of mistakes he might make otherwise. I don't know what Couture's game plan would be? Stand up? Shoot the big man's legs and hope he doesn't slam you? I'm sure Couture will figure something out and expose a flaw in Lesnar's game.

It's a no lose situation for Lesnar, a quick KO or loss to Couture just means he's not ready...yet. But a good showing, or even the unthinkable win propels his MMA career.

[bobsticks]

Well, here's a whole new wrinkle: on the way to a potential Couture/Emilianenko fight we're now looking atthe possibility of a Fedor/ Arlovski bout.

Both camps have denied any formal signings but there's already much ado and some hints in the advertising schemes. Frankly, I think this would put Randy and Fedor on equal ground during the interim as both would have to face truly qualified opponents who inarguably would present a significant challenge.

Despite a couple of subpar outings and an exposed chin, Arlovski has looked back in championship form. I've long suspected his style and talents could present formidable opposition, perhaps even greater than an aging Couture.

[kexodusc]

I think Arlovski's biggest weakness is himself. The dude has scary good offense and is competent on the ground being a sambo wiz. He seems to get in the most trouble when he's trying to finish guys off though.
This guy makes good fighters look vulnerable. The 1st loss to Sylvia he almost put him away and got stunned, and we'll always be left wondering how much better he would have looked if he didn't get seriously injured during the 1st round of their swing match. Despite 2 losses most people I know think Arlovski actually established himself as the better fighter. I dunno about that, but he proved he's a contender.

I don't know if he's going to beat Fedor. But I think for the first time in a long time Fedor's going to see an opponent that he can't dominate on the ground and put away with an armbar.

To be honest, that matchup has more intigue for me than Fedor/Randy does.

Is Fedor fighting Arlovski just to complete a contractual agreement so he can go fight Couture? I'd worry about keeping his focus.

[bobsticks]

What world are you talking about? Jupiter? It's football season now fellas. :p

Hey yo, Rich, this here's what we be talkembout...

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/ufcppv/91?vid=10583411

You can order the PPV or just get yoself up here for the Fight Night Party at Chez Sticks. Steroids will be provided at the door.

[bobsticks]

Hey Kex,

Look what I found! Remember when CroCop was the Man?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0aJ06khIA&eurl=http://fightboxe.blogspot.com/2008/10/mirko-filipovic-crocop-vs-wanderlei.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcy0wYaR614&feature=related

[kexodusc]

Hey Kex,

Look what I found! Remember when CroCop was the Man?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0aJ06khIA&eurl=http://fightboxe.blogspot.com/2008/10/mirko-filipovic-crocop-vs-wanderlei.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mcy0wYaR614&feature=related
Holy ****...never saw that fight...I kinda fingered it was a lucky shot or something, but he pretty much dominated him the whole way through.

He looked so accurate, precise, lethal with his strikes, yet elusive enough to trade with the big boys...WTF has happened to CroCop since then??? People blocking the high kick and staying in close to avoid his power punches? It's almost sad how far he's fallen.

[kexodusc]

Mwa ha ha ha ha.

Wasn't shocked to see Evans have a bad fight and still be better than the always entertaining Griffin, but to see Rampage destroy Silva like that...wow. Worth every penny. And I kinda thought Mir would pull this off but Nog looked old and slow in there...

Lesnar vs Mir 2 is gonna be f'n huge. I love the beastly potential Lesnar has but I'm not sure he's ready for the Mir we saw last night. But he did kind of dominate him in the first fight until he got caught...can't wait for that one.

[bobsticks]

...WTF has happened to CroCop since then??? People blocking the high kick and staying in close to avoid his power punches? It's almost sad how far he's fallen.

It's my understanding that Mirko suffered a lower back injury that he's been trying to rehab for over a year. Having completed his contractual agreements, word is that he'll be having surgery in January.

That's nothing official but it makes some sense as recently his range of motion has appeared limited (a concept to which I'm sure you can attest). We'll see and even at 100% he still gets pwned by Fedor...

[bobsticks]

Lesnar vs Mir 2 is gonna be f'n huge. I love the beastly potential Lesnar has but I'm not sure he's ready for the Mir we saw last night. But he did kind of dominate him in the first fight until he got caught...can't wait for that one.

Yes, Brock has improved exponentially. That said, he's still light years away from being in the same skill level as Mir.

To stand any kind of a chance he's gotta go with the girl that brought him to the dance. He's a big, corn-fed Nebraska farmboy with an abundance of physical gifts. I think he needs to train at 280 in altitude and drop to 260. He's got to come out better conditioned and try to keep it standing...

...meanwhile Mir is going to be looking for the submission from the ground, and, against Lesnar's admittedly limited BJJ skillset he could make it very clinical something like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8dJJh4mLpw&feature=related

[bobsticks]

4879.....

[bobsticks]

...WTF has happened to CroCop since then??? People blocking the high kick and staying in close to avoid his power punches? It's almost sad how far he's fallen.

I got curious when you asked this---I don't get all the Japanese PPVs---and did some digging. It goes far to explain the "what happened to CroCop?" question. I would imagine that after viewing it you'll have some gratitude for the severity and nature of your own circumstances...ouch.


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BTW, if you've ever wondered about testing in Japan I think you can point to the new and improved, Latimmer "Place at the table!", Alistair Overeem...

http://ikrazy.com/video/da82de8f6d428b9/

[kexodusc]

He's only half the man he used to be...

[bobsticks]

I think Arlovski's biggest weakness is himself. The dude has scary good offense and is competent on the ground being a sambo wiz. He seems to get in the most trouble when he's trying to finish guys off though...

...I don't know if he's going to beat Fedor. But I think for the first time in a long time Fedor's going to see an opponent that he can't dominate on the ground and put away with an armbar.



Interestingly enough you were right on a couple of calls. Arlovski's boxing and sambo did payoff. He was clearly well on the way to winning the first round on points. From a technical standpoint he looked outstanding...hands up and tight, using his reach advantage to the fullest extent and using a variety of lowkicks to keep Fedor honest...

...and then he tries to finish with a high knee?! His overconfidence brought him too close to a looping overhand paw that pummeled him into unconsciousness before his body hit the ground.

For the first time I think the combination of physical gift and technique brought something against Fedor that, if only for a moment, puzzled him. To Arlovski's credit he was able to back The Last Emperor up, which even CroCop (who took him to a rare decision) was unable to do.

What occured to me most was that Arlovski looked like a phenomenally trained athlete who had been conditioned to fight while Fedor moved, breathed, and reacted more like an animal. The coup de grāce was so vicious and feral I imagine it would actually confound a trained fighter more than it would a layman. To the uninitiated it would seem a lightning-fast strike from nowhere whereas those in the know will marvel at the unconventional angle that appeared as nothing more than muscle-memory reaction.

Presumably, Barnett's dismantling of Yvel puts him as the number one contender. It'll be interesting to see how the next title bout develops.

[Gerall]

I have been watching MMA since the early years where you got the underground tapes from a video store. Couldnt have them on the shelves. Prior to that I did go to most of the closed circuit matches. What turned my against boxing is that the judging became much like figure skating, based on history, reputation, and expectations, as opposed to who actually won the match. Too many obvious policical decisions drove me away.

[kexodusc]

Interestingly enough you were right on a couple of calls. Arlovski's boxing and sambo did payoff. He was clearly well on the way to winning the first round on points. From a technical standpoint he looked outstanding...hands up and tight, using his reach advantage to the fullest extent and using a variety of lowkicks to keep Fedor honest...

...and then he tries to finish with a high knee?! His overconfidence brought him too close to a looping overhand paw that pummeled him into unconsciousness before his body hit the ground.

For the first time I think the combination of physical gift and technique brought something against Fedor that, if only for a moment, puzzled him. To Arlovski's credit he was able to back The Last Emperor up, which even CroCop (who took him to a rare decision) was unable to do.

What occured to me most was that Arlovski looked like a phenomenally trained athlete who had been conditioned to fight while Fedor moved, breathed, and reacted more like an animal. The coup de grāce was so vicious and feral I imagine it would actually confound a trained fighter more than it would a layman. To the uninitiated it would seem a lightning-fast strike from nowhere whereas those in the know will marvel at the unconventional angle that appeared as nothing more than muscle-memory reaction.

Presumably, Barnett's dismantling of Yvel puts him as the number one contender. It'll be interesting to see how the next title bout develops.
Arlovski looked a bit "off" to me. Maybe I'm seeing things but he looked, well not himself. There were a few exchanges and spots where he did the right thing of course, but he seemed to be lacking that predatory instinct that made him so good a few years ago. Maybe he's thinking too much for his own good? I dunno. Easy for me to say when I don't have to worry about a knuckle sandwich from hell knocking my chin down my throat.

Fedor looked very mortal to me. Maybe he's getting old or something. Didn't he just lose a match at Sambo? Funny how a single fight can affect perception. Maybe it was the production value or something but these guys both dropped big time on my top 10 lists. I'm starting to wonder if Fedor really is talking tough but dodging the real contenders like his critics so often suggest?

Yvel is still the guy everyone loves to hate, including me.. I agree, Barnett must be #1 contender now.

GSP vs Penn is the one I'm drooling over. My 2 favs. I love how the UFC is marketing GSP to be the underdog "good guy" and Penn to be the cocky badass playboy type. Ridiculous. Both are decent human beings and both are pretty classy as far as that goes. I think Penn has more sense on what's good for him vs what's good for the UFC than GSP does and hasn't fit the poster boy profile they wanted.

I think Penn wins the rematch with precision striking, evasion and a patient game plan. He'll wait for GSP to make a mistake. GSP's had more "big fights" lately IMO and he fights to win, sometimes taking unnecessary risks. Penn's fights have mostly been over before they started so he fights just not to lose, and that'll keep him out of trouble.

I could be wrong though, as much as Penn's improved his conditioning, GSP's improved his all around game, and he's no longer intimidated by his opponents. Both are different fighters from the first matchup.

Dunno how the UFC tops that one? Fedor vs Lesnar/Mir?

[bobsticks]

I agree with your take on GSP/Penn and I'm stating now that I'm pulling for GSP heavily. That's not an endoresment that he'll win but more of a recognition that I consider him a good guy. Clearly it could go either way.

Where does UFC go from here? Your guess is as good as mine. Therea are, and will remain, some doubts about Lesnar and until he develops enough to beat a top-tiered opponent convincingly that's the way it is. None the less, Mir/Lesnar 2 should draw some heat as many are interested in that development and it doesn't hurt that Mir dispatched Big Nog in short order. The rest of the heavies don't really match up currently though Shane Corwin has the potential and there's word that Dana's bringing Allistair Overeem in.

SPOILER PREDICTION***--over here in the good ol' U.S. of A where them stair-royd thingies are illegal Overeem will be a shadow of his former self.

I'm most disappointed in the lack of real competition for A. Silva in either the 175 lb. or 205 lb. divisions. After last night, and indee his previous fight, the only person I'm really salivating to see fight Anderson is, believe it or not, Vitor Belfort. "The Phenom" is back...or at least it looked that way in te 28 seconds and one punch that it took to KtFO Matt "The Law" Lindland. I still don't thnk Vitor will beat Anderson, I'm just sayin'...

Sometimes I think we're conditioned by some of the amazing offensive tour de forces that we've witnessed to underestimate the thinking aspect of these things. I respect your opinion but, to an extent, found parts of both fighters' performances last night ipressive. If AA looked unnatural it's because IMO he was concentrating on adopting a style slightly foreign to his natural tendencies. I felt he used his reach advantage well, avoided the ground and, surprisingly, used leg kicks effectively. It was his own hubris that was the end of him (...and the Romans).

For Fedor, perhaps, the most impressive part of the night was his recognition of his limitations and playing an effective role despite them. He waited for his opportunity and skillfully implemented a counterstrike resulting in the multi-directional collision between AA's head and the mat. One observer noted that Andre got "Arlofted"... I think some credit has to be given for remaining ice-cold in such an adrenaline-soaked situation.

[kexodusc]

Hmm, yeah, fair assessment.

You're right, Silva needs some heavy duty competition fast. Maybe he could put on 30 lbs or so and take on the big boys?
Maybe they should just tie one arm behind his back? Maybe he could meet the winner of GSP and Penn in some hybrid weight class match? Probably not fair, but it'd be neat.

[bobsticks]

Hmm, yeah, fair assessment.

You're right, Silva needs some heavy duty competition fast. Maybe he could put on 30 lbs or so and take on the big boys?
Maybe they should just tie one arm behind his back? Maybe he could meet the winner of GSP and Penn in some hybrid weight class match? Probably not fair, but it'd be neat.

Y'know what I miss? The old K-1 tournies...no wieght classes, baby. I can think of more than a handful of heavies that would potentially be put down by Anderson. 'Member them ol' UFCs back in the day. A one night, no-weight class, dealio would be more interesting than 99% of the matches that Dana could put together right now.

[kexodusc]

Y'know what I miss? The old K-1 tournies...no wieght classes, baby. I can think of more than a handful of heavies that would potentially be put down by Anderson. 'Member them ol' UFCs back in the day. A one night, no-weight class, dealio would be more interesting than 99% of the matches that Dana could put together right now.
There was talk of putting on a tournament style king of the octagon type event, but it's unlikely to happen for a lot of reasons.

Fist, sanctioning and the perception that MMA is a sport, not barbaric - those tourney's have the potential for some ugly scenes that could hurt the sport's image.

Second - ego - a lot of fighters have more to lose than gain by entering that now. So the purse would have to be huge, or the card would be mostly mid-level talent.

That would still be interesting though...I'd pay to watch that.

Joe Ferraro of Sportsnet.ca had an interesting comment about weight classes in today's UFC...


...at 145 pounds, how would Urijah Faber do against a 205-pounder like Forrest Griffin, Rashad Evans, Quinton (Rampage) Jackson, Wanderlei Silva or even Chuck Liddell?

I asked Dana White this very question while he visited the Sportsnet studio on Tuesday and his response was obvious. "He'd get killed. What's your point?"

I explained to White, my point was simple: the difference in weight between Faber and the light-heavyweights was similar to what Randy Couture experienced vs. Brock Lesnar.

[bobsticks]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=A2KIRy3wQ4JJsxMAVAA9Eo14?slug=ys-mmaweekly012909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[kexodusc]

Wow, I was not expecting a total, one-sided domination like that. GSP has obviously elevated his game by quite a bit since the fight in 2006, but I really thought Penn did too. Didn't look like it here as GSP just beat Penn like he owed him money from start to finish.

A friend of mine boldly suggests that the lack of competition for Penn vs the quality of opponents for GSP might have misled people about how close this one could be. Sherk, Pulver, etc vs Serra, Hughes on so on. Yeah maybe. I still think the size/weight differences gave GSP an advantage, it's tough to fight biology.

Penn did get carried away with his hype-talk and some of the GSP bashing was a bit much, but I never got the sense there was any animosity between the two so maybe it was just gamesmanship. Wonder what's next for Penn?

A Silva/GSP fight is already being talked about,

Ha ha...Bonner lost.

[bobsticks]

"Rush" put on a clinic. I doubt many expected that level of outright domination. Though it can be said that he overpowered Penn in all physical aspects, Pierre seemed extremely focused and rather tenacious. Penn seemed like that soft, schoolyard bully that finally gets a dramatc comeuppance.

I think the biggest winner of the night was Lyoto Machida. None can argue with his record but if Dana White has shown us anything since the passing of the guard from early days of Royce it's that he refuses to put on boring fights. While Machida has always presented a frustrating and confusing style I doubt that you'd disagree that, at times, he's put on some technically magnificent yawners. He needed that kind of a clearcut, stand-up win to moe into the title picture. Dana's gotta appease the WWE demographic afterall. The word "domination" again comes to mind...as does the word "slobberknocker"...

I'm getting tired of the phrase "pound for pound".

[kexodusc]

I'm getting tired of the phrase "pound for pound".

In my mind GSP earned the title "best fighter in the world" last night lb for lb or otherwise - it's one thing to beat a guy like BJ, it's another to kick his ass and make it look easy. But it's really not fair to compare fighters across weight classes - so much of the bigger guy's games is knockout power and explosive offence, there's more stamina and technique in the smaller classes. I can't imagine a guy like BJ lasting long vs Mir or Lesnar, but I doubt many would argue he's got better skills. Each fighter works to be the best in their weight class, not win fantasy match-ups.

I agree with everything you say about Machida - painful to watch, but nobody can figure him out yet. He's far more cerebral in the ring than most bloodthirsty fans can appreciate. I'd give him the shot - pretty or not he's cutting up the opposition. Dana should think of how big the pop will be once a more mainstream figher KO's him! Everyone wants to see him lose. If he became champ and held on to it a few years, eventually a challenger would knock him off and a legend would be born. You can't write a better script.

[bobsticks]

Hey Kex,

You got any vaseline?

...I think GSP's new cornerman will need to borrow some...

...hehehe

[bobsticks]

I have been watching MMA since the early years where you got the underground tapes from a video store. Couldnt have them on the shelves. Prior to that I did go to most of the closed circuit matches. What turned my against boxing is that the judging became much like figure skating, based on history, reputation, and expectations, as opposed to who actually won the match. Too many obvious policical decisions drove me away.

Hey Gerall,

Let's not kid ourselves, MMA has it's share of politics too. The previous convo Kex and I were having about Machida reflects a most basic business politik but it goes further. The UFC has always had a bit, from the stranglehold the Gracie family exerted to the current titl scene and virtually anything that comes out of Dana White's mouth regarding Fedor Emilianenko.

Still, on the whole, it is a refreshing change and I love the fcat that within the timeframe of a few second match the entire championship landscape can change.

[kexodusc]

Hey Kex,

You got any vaseline?

...I think GSP's new cornerman will need to borrow some...

...hehehe

LOL. I can only assume Penn's camp was complaining about the additional weight advantage the vaseline gave GSP over BJ, because he was on top beating the tar out of him for most of the meaningful seconds of that fight.

It's not like they don't all grease up on baby oil or whatever in the room before the fight...

I thought Dana's comments were the best "Some Vaseline on a guy's back didn't change the outcome of that fight, but you don't do it."

[bobsticks]

I choose to ignore the silliness of "Vaselinegate" and focus on the following:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=A2KIPH.RGI9JPH8BTwQ9Eo14?slug=dd-mmaranks020409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[kexodusc]

Rashad finally starting to get some respect I see. There's a guy that still has some upside if he wants to improve. I'm afraid his biggest threat is that his natural talent already leads him to believe he's the greatest. He needs a loss to piss him off and bring him down a peg. The best fighters get hungrier after an upset.

[bobsticks]

Hey Kex,

What'd you think about Paulo Thiago's uppercut-left hook combo KO over Koscheck ? That's what ya gets for leadin' with yer chin, eh? It could prolly be argued that the fight was stopped prematurely but, damn, you just can't roll like that in the Big Show.

I'm thinkin' Maia's lateral drop into a triangle on Chael Sonnen was the move of the night...

[kexodusc]

Hey Kex,

What'd you think about Paulo Thiago's uppercut-left hook combo KO over Koscheck ? That's what ya gets for leadin' with yer chin, eh? It could prolly be argued that the fight was stopped prematurely but, damn, you just can't roll like that in the Big Show.

I'm thinkin' Maia's lateral drop into a triangle on Chael Sonnen was the move of the night...

I replayed that a dozen times because I was rooting for Koscheck...but you can clearly see Koscheck's eyes were glossed over, rolled up in the back of his head and he was a gonner. IF Thiago wanted to pounce on him he could have done some serious damage. Great stoppage there. I was pretty shocked cause he's shown he's had a half decent chin in the past and that shot didn't look particularly devastating...Might have been one of those mouth-open stunner shots...he was gone for a few seconds though and despite his fast recovery I really think it was the right call.

He's such an aggressor in the cage that he does leave himself exposed from time to time. That was ok because his chin wasn't made of glass until yesterday, now I think fighters might not show him as much respect.

Felt bad for Stevenson -he's got to learn some better finishing techniques cause his offence was pretty by the book. And Sanchez read it. I got the feeling that if it went 5 rounds though, things might have been pretty damn interesting. Diego wasn't giving him any problems really and the longer it went, the less he fought, makes me wonder if Stevenson could have pulled off the upset with more time.

Maia's move was pretty good - I think Sonnen was expecting him to roll and not wrap the leg around him.

Gouveia got exactly what he deserved, and probably needed. Marquardt didn't look so great as much as he looked in better shape, more prepared, and no real gaping holes in his game. Gouveia needs to decide if he wants to be at the top of the weight class or just fight on the undercard. He's got the tools and skill, just not the work ethic I think.

[bobsticks]

Yeah, but no matter what Sonnen expected what he got what a rather Spider-like toss and a quick exit. Good stuff, I felt.

Overall it thought it was a pretty decent show despite the lack of mainstream marquee names...don't get me wrong, there was alot of talent in 95 but nobody's nuthugging Nate Marquart.

Lol, and speaking of nuthugging, Sports Illustrated is reporting the "great probability" that the next Afliction show will feature Barnett v. Fedor as its main event. Like you, I was not impressed by Josh's inability to put away Yvel at the last outing. That said, he is still an amazing catch wrestler with some mighty dangerous paws. If he gets a burr in his ass he might be resloute in outmatching his buddy. I doubt it though and, of course, sigbets will be available.

I may be a little late to the party on this one but evidently there's been some changes in the rules...hehehe...

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=8139&zoneid=2

[kexodusc]

I'm getting sick of vaselinegate already. As one UFC fighter quipped, after about 1 or 2 minutes into the round that stuff starts to add friction and become a bit sticky, providing more grip than simple body sweat would, so it works both ways too.

Guess GSP will have to beat him clean for a 3rd time to make BJ go away. Too bad.

As for Barnett, I can't imagine him putting away Fedor but Fedor looked pretty mortal in his last fight so who knows?

[bobsticks]

I'm getting sick of vaselinegate already. As one UFC fighter quipped, after about 1 or 2 minutes into the round that stuff starts to add friction and become a bit sticky, providing more grip than simple body sweat would, so it works both ways too.

Yes



Guess GSP will have to beat him clean for a 3rd time to make BJ go away. Too bad.

Not too bad. There was a time when I'd spout off something diplomatic like "I respect Penn for his God-given ability" but anymore, not so much. I'm tired of him not showing up for fights.

I have no doubt that GSP would've and will always layeth the smacketh down on BJ...because of the size and technique but, geez man, come to throw.


As for Barnett, I can't imagine him putting away Fedor but Fedor looked pretty mortal in his last fight so who knows?

Well, as you've no doubt assumed TeamSticks has been researching this through all sources. I agree with you, and my original assessment btw, that Fedor had some challenging moments against AA but closer inspection indicates maybe not as much as I thought. I saw some slo-mo GIFs that display more clearly the Емельяненко blocking technique...shoulder rolls and armblocks. I think Fedor got hit a lot less than many of us assumed...

[kexodusc]

Yeah, you're probably right. I watched the fight again a few times too, and I never was as nervous about him losing as I was the first time - maybe knowing the outcome diminishes the value of AA's performance. Maybe I just have Fedor on too high a pedestal and forget he's always just 1 punch away from an upset like everyone else. High expectations on that guy.

I get the feeling whoever beats Fedor is just going to use it as a bargaining chip to jump ship to UFC for bigger bucks. Too bad, if I'm right.

[kexodusc]

As far as Penn goes, I'm really disappointed in him. There's always been a cockiness about him that I tolerate because he's a MMA fighter and every interview is designed to bring that out to hype the fight. But this guy runs his mouth about his opponents too much before and after victories, and is a pretty sore loser. He was in in the first GSP fight, he cried after Pulver beat him, he cried after losing to Hughes, and now this.

I think he showed up for this one - but he's too small naturally to carry at 170 and now more than ever weight matters in MMA. That, and GSP is just a much better fighter than the also-rans that fight Penn at Lightweight, which isn't nearly as competitive IMO.

Still, Penn isn't nearly as annoying as Bisping. I can't wait for that guy to lose.

As for UFC 95 - I thought it was decent, especially since it was free. It suffered from a lot of early finishes which always makes it tough, but it wasn't very predictable. Most of those fights were important to separate contenders from pretenders.

[bobsticks]

Lol, I find it amusing that if someone survives for three minutes it's cause to doubt...even if at 3:01 they get KtFO. You're right...raised expectations.

[bobsticks]

Kexdaddy watchu think, sigbet...UFC 99...Cain Velasquez versus Heath Herring....

...talk to me mang...

[kexodusc]

I think Herring is the gatekeeper to the upper echelon of the HW, a good test for the 5-0 kid. I think Velasquez is a bit overrated and riding the hype machine - not sure how he'll hold up against a legit striker like Herring.

That said, I still expect Velasquez to pull this one off. I'll lay sig down on that.

[bobsticks]

I think Herring is the gatekeeper to the upper echelon of the HW, a good test for the 5-0 kid. I think Velasquez is a bit overrated and riding the hype machine - not sure how he'll hold up against a legit striker like Herring.

That said, I still expect Velasquez to pull this one off. I'll lay sig down on that.


Lol, okay, well I was gonna try and take Velasquez too...but ya know what...yer on. In my eyes this may be the first even-odds sigbet I've seen in awhile.

Herring seems to have problems with grapplers but Velasquez IMO has some questionable cardio. If this one goes long it's anybody's guess, or....< obligatory smacktalk > get ready for The Gatekeeper to slam the door shut!!

[kexodusc]

Lol, okay, well I was gonna try and take Velasquez too...but ya know what...yer on. In my eyes this may be the first even-odds sigbet I've seen in awhile.

I think you're right about that. I had it rated 50/50, but Herring seems to show up for the fights he's ruled out for and whenever the UFC feeds their prospects they seem to choke a bit so yeah. Velasquez is hungry and I think he'll be ready and in shape since this fight doesn't happen until June.

So then...what's the term? A month...could be a long time, especially with NHL playoffs and March Madness 'round the corner...2 weeks would allow sufficient reload time...your call.

Does the site let us insert images in sigs? If not, I propose Avatars are fair game too...you been using those pictures of that wrestler Sting for way too long, Bobby Styxx.

Oh yes, you'll be signing posts with such confounding, astounding, spell bounding messages of perveted persuasions...I can't lose...reminds me of another bet I made the time I rolled two 8's and slayed the dragon of Mt. Corruptus with my 4th level...err never mind.

[bobsticks]

1) That's Brandon, check yo specks...
2) For personal reasons I actually agree with your assessment but am willing to forgo my intuition in an effort to liven this place up.
3) All NHL sigbets will be considered on an individual basis..& yer right, there's more than enough time for multiples.
4) I'm pretty sure images can be inserted...didn't Jrhymedaddy have some horrible mullet thing going awhile back? In any case, I'll check tonight when I get home...this here phone ain't got no images in ye ol' memory banks.

In any case, it's on like Donkey Kong and, for someone, it'll be shameful fo' sho'

[kexodusc]

1) That's Brandon, check yo specks...
It's cool man, you dig the Stinger, Scorpion Death Lock, Stinger Splash. I can respect that. Yeah, I liked the neon surfer look better myself, and he never should have beat Ravishing Rick Rude, but it is a bad ass avatar.


2) For personal reasons I actually agree with your assessment but am willing to forgo my intuition in an effort to liven this place up.
Wouldn't matter who you picked, my guy would win...I'm undefeated in Ar.com sig bets...:ciappa:


3) All NHL sigbets will be considered on an individual basis..& yer right, there's more than enough time for multiples. We gotta talk Swish-o-matic into it too. We could each do a round by round prediction, dude who gets the most right wins, the others suffer the consequences...that way we don't run into the trouble of everyone taking the same teams each round and no sigs being wagered. Could even get a sig bet mediator to send our picks to unanimously, GM or someone, if anyone's worried about posting first.

[bobsticks]

It's cool man, you dig the Stinger, Scorpion Death Lock, Stinger Splash. I can respect that. Yeah, I liked the neon surfer look better myself, and he never should have beat Ravishing Rick Rude, but it is a bad ass avatar.

Actually I was never much of a Stinger fan...but I'll hang with Hall and Nash all day long. Road Dogg too.



Wouldn't matter who you picked, my guy would win...I'm undefeated in Ar.com sig bets...:ciappa:.

Has there ever been an AR sigbet? Mebbe we're both undefeated, making this the Clash of Champions.


We gotta talk Swish-o-matic into it too. We could each do a round by round prediction, dude who gets the most right wins, the others suffer the consequences...that way we don't run into the trouble of everyone taking the same teams each round and no sigs being wagered. Could even get a sig bet mediator to send our picks to unanimously, GM or someone, if anyone's worried about posting first.

I'm down. And, I like the idea of two week increments of pain. Clearly we have to keep it within the confines of the Forum's rules and the law of the land and such but I say rawk on.

[TheHills44060]

Has there ever been an AR sigbet? Mebbe we're both undefeated, making this the Clash of Champions.
I went to clash of champions 5 in 9th grade...our wrestling coach took us. Damn I used to worship Lex Lugar.

[bobsticks]

We gotta talk Swish-o-matic into it too. We could each do a round by round prediction, dude who gets the most right wins, the others suffer the consequences...that way we don't run into the trouble of everyone taking the same teams each round and no sigs being wagered. Could even get a sig bet mediator to send our picks to unanimously, GM or someone, if anyone's worried about posting first.

We can get Swishy-shish involved...shodiluk's been 'round too...most bets I'll take on all comers, 'specially this one.

I haven't heard the exact terms...was it two weeks? We can come up with sidebets too but, in the interests of full disclosure, you might wanna check up on Cain's recent health issues which you can find out about here (http://smouch.net/lol/)
Remember where ya read it first...

[bobsticks]

Hey Kex...or any other interested parties...

...tonight's the night, UFC 97....Liddell v. Shogun and Silva v Lietes...

Sigbets? Who wants to look like a jabroni...and, frankly, I don't care if it's me...

[kexodusc]

Hey Kex...or any other interested parties...

...tonight's the night, UFC 97....Liddell v. Shogun and Silva v Lietes...

Sigbets? Who wants to look like a jabroni...and, frankly, I don't care if it's me...
Sorry, I missed this while I was gone or I woulda nailed you on it for sure...

Dunno if I coulda given you the odds to take a chance on Liddell though...

Our earlier bet is still on though...I have such sites to show you....

[bobsticks]

It's on ...like Donkey Kong...

You really didn't miss much. Frankly, the best match of the evening was two little, lightweights that nobody ever heard of...a muay thai master and a bats-ass crazy guy that whooped the snot out of each other. I will say that if any good may have come from it it's that we're one step closer to a Silva/GSP fight at a catch weight. We'll see.

In any case, Big Daddy Herring gonna slap the smugness right offa Cain's face...

Nice avi, btw...lol

[kexodusc]

Wow...I did not see Machida surgically dissecting Evans like that...and making it look so easy. I want to see him fight Silva. Now.

And Serra - I really thought he had Hughes in bad spots a lot more than vice-versa, though the 2nd round definitely went to Hughes. He probably retires now (right?). Tough decision, the guy I watched it with felt Hughes won all 3 so what do I know?

[bobsticks]

Yeah buddy...I also did not forsee such a thorough dismantling. Machida's come a lon way in evolving his style into an offensive vivisection, as it were. I see him giving Rampage a lot of trouble as well. That straight-backed, kick and stick elusiveness will probably prove to be confusing for most wrestlers and straight boxers. Page is goingto have to be prepared to eat a few on the way in, actually get in (which 15 before him have failed to do) and then g-n-p a BJJ Black Belt. Methinks Machida could be around for some time.

I think I read somewhere that Serra has a couple of successful martial arts schools on the East Coast. Money may not be enough of a motivator to continue...

Did I hear that Herring is being replaced by Cheik Kongo in the Valesquez fight? As I recall we have a standing sigbet on that and such roster changes could necessitate renegotiation...

[kexodusc]

Did I hear that Herring is being replaced by Cheik Kongo in the Valesquez fight? As I recall we have a standing sigbet on that and such roster changes could necessitate renegotiation...
Dunno about Cheik, but we'll work something out, pick an undercard fight if we need to. You ain't getting out that easy, dawg.

Rampaggio might be the guy to take Machida out. Maybe precision skills and chess-match thinkery has been the downfall of his opponents so far. Now let's try a guy with ability to take some punches while setting up for the big only-need-to-land-one shot. Could be just what the doctor ordered? And that from a guy who is at times a somewhat sloppy, unpredictable brawler. How does Machida elude that? Like cutting butter with a chainsaw. If Quinton gets put on his back it could be game over.

I'm equally interested in the Lesnar/Mir rematch. Part of me hopes Mir sends him back to school, but the other part hopes Lesnar just physically overwhelms him. Genetic freaks are cool. I see Lesnar faking the flying arm bar, and calling an audible scissor heel hook.

[bobsticks]

Uh yeah, we'll figger somethin' out....I dunno why you think I'm runnin'....I'm the brave journeyman who's been searchin' these here internets far and wide for the prettiest lil' pics for yer sig....

As for your assessment of Page's chances, it pains me to agree. Quinton is easily one of my favorite fighters and personalities and I don't relish the thought of watching himm get KTFO.

Currently may attention has been diverted oversees between the recent freakshow that was DREAM9 and the upcoming Affliction card. Just announced matches: Chris Horodecki vs. Dan Lauzon, Gegard Mousasi vs. Vitor Belfort, Renato Sobral vs. Tito Ortiz, and the long-awaited bigg daddy, Fedor Emelianenko vs. Josh Barnett...

...and, yes, I'll be taking any and all sigbet action on Fedor and Babalu...

[kexodusc]

Uh yeah, we'll figger somethin' out....I dunno why you think I'm runnin'....I'm the brave journeyman who's been searchin' these here internets far and wide for the prettiest lil' pics for yer sig....
Why you wasting your time on a efforts that will never see the light of day?



Currently may attention has been diverted oversees between the recent freakshow that was DREAM9 and the upcoming Affliction card. Just announced matches: Chris Horodecki vs. Dan Lauzon, Gegard Mousasi vs. Vitor Belfort, Renato Sobral vs. Tito Ortiz, and the long-awaited bigg daddy, Fedor Emelianenko vs. Josh Barnett...

...and, yes, I'll be taking any and all sigbet action on Fedor and Babalu...
Your on like teflon, I'll take Ortiz.

[bobsticks]

Your on like teflon, I'll take Ortiz.

OMG, who knew that the crack epidemic extended that far into Canada?!

One week; winners choice...WAR BABALU...

[kexodusc]

OMG, who knew that the crack epidemic extended that far into Canada?!

One week; winners choice...WAR BABALU...
I'll admit to riding a bit of a hunch here, but....nobody has had Machida on the ropes as much as Tito did...he's got lots of fight left in him, and I think he'll take him out. And really, other than that enigma Sokoudjou, who's Babaloney fought in the last 2 years? TUF contestant Mike Whitehead????
Ortiz, FTW.

[bobsticks]

I almost feel guilty...almost...

JoSE, you want in on this action?

[JSE]

I almost feel guilty...almost...

JoSE, you want in on this action?

I like Rampage as well. I think he will just be too tough for Machida. I think Machida going to beat the hell out of him but I think Rampage can withstand it. Rampage in 2.

I think Lesnar will take Mir. Lesnar in 3. I think he has more experience now and won't get caught this time.

I hope Sobral hands Tito his arse. Can't stand the guy.

And Fedor vs. JB? Ooooo Boy! That's gonna be fun. I'll take Fedor for no real reason.

I have also been eagerly awaiting Brown vs. Faber II on 6/7 over at the WEC. Faber is one heck of a little fighter. I think he made a mistake in the first match and got caught. I think he is clearly the better fighter and will take Brown in the 1st round this time. Mainly because he is pissed off about letting himself get beat.

I also like Miguel Torres in the WEC. He is just scrappy and tough as nails. I don't think he has ever really been challenged. What else is left for him in the WEC?

I would like to see both of the guys come over to the UFC. I think Faber will come over eventually because I think he can compete in the lightweight 145+ weight. He's about that now. Torres will have a harder time getting up to a UFC lightweight. I'm guessing he is about 5 to 10 lbs below that and he has a small skinny frame.

Anyway, to recap....

Rampage
Lesnar
Sobral
Fedor
Faber


JSE

[3-LockBox]

I don't do PPV. I do watch a lot of MMA on TV, but I watch both WEC and UFC equally. Is there a major difference? besides the obvious, I mean...

[JSE]

I don't do PPV. I do watch a lot of MMA on TV, but I watch both WEC and UFC equally. Is there a major difference? besides the obvious, I mean...

Same basic rules. There are a few minor differences. Other than that, I think UFC is considered the "premier" association. It seems the most the best of the best fighters all end up there at some point. Fedor???? The money is definitely better with UFC. Bigger billing and popularity means bigger paychecks for the fighters.

[bobsticks]

aaaiight..JoSE...it looks like we's on the same mindmeld, the same mental plane, 'cepting the Rampage issue...sssssoooooooo....

....I'm throwin' down the gauntlet at you, I'm pickin' Lyoto and I'm pickin' it definitively....gimme watcha got bruh...

btw...good to see yer arse posting in these here hallowed halls...

[kexodusc]

I hear ya guys on Ortiz. He's a dick. But I hope that isn't the only reason why you'd take Sobral over him, cause that stunt he pulled choking out Heath after he tapped, after the ref was signaling him to let go, and even resisting Mazzagatti's efforts to break the choke were was more dickery in 20 seconds than Tito's hype-machine mouth and stupid t-shirts have combined for in his whole career.

Don't really like either...Just think Tito's got some BJJ skills the world isn't too aware of and I'll look like a genius if I'm right...

[kexodusc]

Did you guys catch this weeks TUF where that Lester kid fought with his teeth freshly knocked out and his nose busted up? Ouch. I've had my top front 2 teeth knocked out in hockey fights a few times. The last damn think I want to do is fight again next week. Let a lone against a trained fighter. Faulkner was supposed to be the top guy on team UK too. Dat**** hurts, bro....can't even brush the next day.
I dunno how far that kid will go, but taking the fight with a busted up face, after getting destroyed the week before and out-willing your opponent goes far in my books.
That might be my favorite moment moment from any of the seasons. Wow.

[bobsticks]

Agreed. Lester showed a degree on intestinal fortitude that I had not assumed he possessed. That said, on a day-to-day basis he's been such a raging douchebag on the show that I'd find it hard to cheer for him. Props for the big brass ones though.

That was definetely a bizarre show. Faulkner was so overbilled that disappointment was sure to come. Kinda weird seeing Mask too...RIP

[bobsticks]

Okie dokie...big weekend for change...or at least some different ideas to contend with. Rampage, in a fit of hubris no doubt, has jumped on board with coaching the next season of TUF. Evidently the antipathy that puportedly exists between Page and Evans is completely real and the concept of fighting Rashad at the end of the season was too much to pass up...

...smart money has the next LHW title match all-Brazillian, the Dragon most likely facing Mauricio "Shogun" Rua...I'm willing to consider alot of options but most likely I'll be sticking with Lyoto on this one...a second round KO of a once-proud Iceman don't turn my head...

Nobody wants Josh?!? Nobody wants to even talk decisions or multiple rounds?

Btw, JoSE, the headliners of Affliction and DREAM actually make more than those in the UFC, and considering foreign endorsements, it might be quite a long time before you see "The Last Emperor" working for Dana...especially given the lifetime merchandising obligations the UFC usually imparts upon it's victi...er, fighters...

I'ma stick with Babalu against Kex, but I think I agree with most of Jose's choices...couldn't tellya 'bout Mousasi v. Belfort...that's six-to-five-and-pick-em in Sticks Vegas...

[kexodusc]

HA HA HA!

We are going to have to start a pool on Kimbo. I say he lasts until the 2nd fight on TUF.

Would love to see Rampage coach him though - think he could learn'im some jiu-jitsu? :)

[bobsticks]

Kimbo?....I've known for 24 hours and I'm still speechless...not sure...don't know...um, yeah...

Tito ducked Babalu and Mousasi refuses to meet at a catch weight...not sure what's gonna go down but WAR AFFLICTION...my money's on the fact that they still put together a better card than UFC's 100, 101, and 102 combined...

[kexodusc]

Kimbo?....I've known for 24 hours and I'm still speechless...not sure...don't know...um, yeah...

Tito ducked Babalu and Mousasi refuses to meet at a catch weight...not sure what's gonna go down but WAR AFFLICTION...my money's on the fact that they still put together a better card than UFC's 100, 101, and 102 combined...
Any show that gets Megadeth gets my PPV dough. New rule.

[3-LockBox]

I have also been eagerly awaiting Brown vs. Faber II on 6/7 over at the WEC. Faber is one heck of a little fighter. I think he made a mistake in the first match and got caught. I think he is clearly the better fighter and will take Brown in the 1st round this time. Mainly because he is pissed off about letting himself get beat.

Faber is pound for pound the best fighter in the WEC...not named Mike Brown. That wasn't a lucky shot. Brown had Faber scouted pretty well, and was waiting for that spinning back elbow - stepped to the left while delivering a right hook - text book boxing.

I love Faber, don't get me wrong, but he's done himself an injustice fighting in a system where his weight class is afraid of him. Brown was the first guy to fight Faber and not show fear. Even Jens Pulver was tentative against Faber, being content just to last. Brown fought to win in the first fight...

...as well as the second. Like I said, I am a Faber fan, but it sure is surreal seeing Faber getting manhandled. Brown is the real deal and is at the moment, better than Faber 2-0. Faber will get better because now he finally has someone in his weight class that is his equal and doesn't show up just to kiss his ass and let him get away with stupid WWE crap he pulled while defending his (now Mike Brown's) belt.

[kexodusc]

:mad5: UFC 99 was a pile of crap!

Kinda funny to see Cro Cop stab Dana in the back though. He is the master of hyperbole, but I do love seeing him get a taste of his own medicine once in awhile.

[kexodusc]

Wow...the TUF finale was better than the last 3 ppv I shelled out money for. Clay Guida and Diego Sanchez never disappoint, and Diaz and Stevenson put on one of the more entertaining jiu-jitsu matches I've seen in a long time.

My boy DaMarques didn't win...didn't look good either, but oh well. Helluva free show.

[bobsticks]

Wow...the TUF finale was better than the last 3 ppv I shelled out money for. Clay Guida and Diego Sanchez never disappoint, and Diaz and Stevenson put on one of the more entertaining jiu-jitsu matches I've seen in a long time.

My boy DaMarques didn't win...didn't look good either, but oh well. Helluva free show.

Amen to all these thoughts. Guida and Sanchez put on one of the better shows this year...but, again, that ain't sayin' much. I'm getting tired of constant lackluster performances. In the recent "Unleashed:Knockouts" series that they ran (circa 2004/2005) almost any fight on the card beat most of this year's snoozefests. I'm getting bored with UFC.

I'm getting more and more g'd up for Affliction...if Joshy doesn't get Zulu'd it could be a match for the ages.

[bobsticks]

Aaiiight Kex, I'm gunnin' for ya...finally!!!....the sigbet!!!...

...I'm sayin' best two outta three for UFC 100....this Saturday bay-bay....

...Proposition:

....I'll take Lesnar, Alves, and Bisping...

...you want some?

[kexodusc]

Aaiiight Kex, I'm gunnin' for ya...finally!!!....the sigbet!!!...

...I'm sayin' best two outta three for UFC 100....this Saturday bay-bay....

...Proposition:

....I'll take Lesnar, Alves, and Bisping...

...you want some?
Hmmm, I wanted Lesnar and Bisping too...definitely taking St. Pierre but in a much closer fight than many expect.

But in the interest of leaping before I look, let's go. Mir, GSP, and Henderson it is...

I mo' cut you up, Sticks!

[kexodusc]

What did we agree for terms? 2 weeks, pics included in sig, and avatars are fair game?

You see that gold on my shoulder...gonna take more than some fake Stinger to take that away from me...

[bobsticks]

What did we agree for terms? 2 weeks, pics included in sig, and avatars are fair game?

You see that gold on my shoulder...gonna take more than some fake Stinger to take that away from me...


I'm fine with those stipulations...

..."Gold"?, meh, I see something pink and furry in your future.

[kexodusc]

I'm fine with those stipulations...

..."Gold"?, meh, I see something pink and furry in your future.
Low blow...you leave my marrital enhancement apparatus out this! :mad5:

[bobsticks]

Wow.

Ok, you're up one early...can't beleive Bisping purposely circled left...directly into the right hand of Hendo...again, wow...

[bobsticks]

Lawl...alright ya bastage...I've cleared out my PM box...do your worst...

...I'm callin' Guido right now to triple up on Mir just to break even...

[bobsticks]

Btw... GSP won me over tonight...amazing, fantastic and classy...easily my favorite French Canadian...I hope he can find a girl without armpit hair...

[kexodusc]

Not entirely surprised about Bisping...always felt his opponents underperformed, but I thought maybe he'd be more aggressive with a jab, chase Henderson instead of running away all the time. Lost a lot of respect there.

GSP dominated Alves but I like Alves' potential...Let the record show I beat the Stick man with a lame horse...that's gutsy. I tore a hip flexor doing squats once and coudln't imagine fighting with any strength.

Having secured my victory I will cheer with my heart and hope Lesnar wins now... used to like Mir but he's become far too cocky and I hope he and Nog meet again.

You'll get your medicine on Monday or Tuesday, as soon as the airlines find my laptop...I went easy on you this time...

[bobsticks]

I'll not be a sore loser, to you anyway... I've called my peeps and I'm now more concerned with the financial repercussions...

..do your worst, I've earned it...

...dammit

[kexodusc]

Wow...the smack-talk after the fight might have been more entertaining than watching Lesnar cell-mate Mir.
Normally I hate that stuff, Mir had some coming cause of all the jive he was spitting for the last year or so...Lesnar could have looked like a superhero if he had the brains to be gracious.

Makes me wonder if Dana is coaching him to be the new Bad Boy in the UFC? Guess when you're the biggest bully in the world you can say whatever you want.

Don't get mad at Brock though, poor guy can't afford a Bud Light I guess.

You'll get a chance to avenge yourself at UFC 101...

[bobsticks]

Makes me wonder if Dana is coaching him to be the new Bad Boy in the UFC? Guess when you're the biggest bully in the world you can say whatever you want.

You'll get a chance to avenge yourself at UFC 101...

It's playground chit like that that make me wonder if the Last Emperor isn't headed, if only for a brief period, to the UFC...follow the drama, follow the plot line...

...and, yes I will...

[bobsticks]

and BTW, Aleks has already stated that he'd like to fight in the UFC...if only he make customs...

[bobsticks]

Well this is flamin' embarassin'...and worse yet, there's technical problems with whatever diabolical signature the evil-Kex has planned....

...oh, do let me know...

[kexodusc]

You have a PM...but I suppose I coulda posted it here...kindly cut and paste this code into your sig and wrap the IMG tags around it:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_yDwIo198iNI/Sl0dz7HgPWI/AAAAAAAAAf4/WxW0Xsc1wrs/s400/sigbet.jpg

(newfangled technology)

[bobsticks]

There will so surely be hell to pay...

[kexodusc]

There will so surely be hell to pay...
Looking good my friend.

While I could pull a Frank Shamrock and retire, that would be no fun.
UFC 101 isn't far away...:ciappa:

[bobsticks]

Looking good my friend.

While I could pull a Frank Shamrock and retire, that would be no fun.
UFC 101 isn't far away...:ciappa:

Why, yes....yes it is....mwa ha hahahahaha....

[bobsticks]

Btw, out of curiosity, just who's nuts was I hugging?

Lol, there were no Red Devil Fighters on the card...

[kexodusc]

Btw, out of curiosity, just who's nuts was I hugging?

Lol, there were no Red Devil Fighters on the card...
Damned if I know. I had help from my 9 year old cousin. He calls everyone a nut hugger and uses the term in a variety of contexts I've never heard before...So I ran with it...

Option B was a super imposed Brandon Lee head over Michael "Down for the Count" Bisping's body, but it still retained a sense of manliness about it. And we couldn't have that now, could we.

[bobsticks]

You mean something similar to this....?


5783

[kexodusc]

You mean something similar to this....?


5783
Yeah that ain't far off.

Bisping is going to have a HARD time bouncing back form this one. He had been lucky with his opponents not performing well or being clearly a step below his abilities until Hendo, but now he's going to have that KO fear to overcome. You can't, and don't replicate that in training...

But if he does overcome it...he'll be a much better fighter for it. Can't wait for his comeback fight...any ideas who it could be?

[bobsticks]

Bisping is going to have a HARD time bouncing back form this one. He had been lucky with his opponents not performing well or being clearly a step below his abilities until Hendo, but now he's going to have that KO fear to overcome. You can't, and don't replicate that in training...

True talk. Back in the day, whenever I'd get jacked hard and take a major fail I had a very simple routine....take about ten shots of tequila, a lil' Peruvian marching powder, and then go pick a bar fight....the equivalent of fighting a "can". Bottom line, it's all about the desensitization to violence. You can have all the technique in the world but if yer brain goes into standby it's over.

That fight was no different than the last couple Liddel fights in that within seconds of the opening bell I was standing, screaming at the set. How Ya gonna circle into somebody's strong hand...angles were crap...

Y'all Hendo fans are brutal, btw...

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[Worf101]

I missed any video of the postfight meltdown, any links. I want to see this for myself.

Da Worfster

[bobsticks]

Whattup Worfster...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziwld-JLiAs&feature=fvsr

It's hard to find an actual clip cuz the UFC is pretty draconian while they're still offering replays but when the boss is pissed there's obviously an issue.

[kexodusc]

Ha ha ha...don't think they're Hendo fans as much as Bisping haters.

[bobsticks]

...And the oddsmakers take a beating...Josh Barnett tests positive for steroids in the first ever pre fight test. The results were announced a few days ago by the California Athletic Commission after tests taken a full two months before the event.

Though problematic for any number of reasons, Vitor Belfort is currently the best bet to step up a weight class and face the champ at the next Affliction show...

[bobsticks]

http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/07/23/csac-josh-barnett-failed-first-random-drug-test-in-california-state/


CSAC: Josh Barnett Failed First Random Drug Test in California State History

There are still many questions that have been left unanswered in the wake of Josh Barnett's positive test for an anabolic steroid, which has forced Affliction to find a new opponent for Fedor Emelianenko on August 1. FanHouse spoke to the California State Athletic Commission's assistant executive officer, Bill Douglas, Wednesday evening to find out more about this situation and what it means for Barnett's MMA future in the United States.

The full interview with Douglas is below.

Ariel Helwani: Is there any chance that Barnett could be cleared to compete on August 1?
Bill Douglas: It's doubtful it will be a possibility given the time frames necessary to properly process a sample like this. One of the reasons why it was done so early ahead of time for the bout was one: it was largely an unannounced test. I mean, essentially when the decision was made, Josh had 48 hours to appear to go ahead and take the test; and two: taking the processing times into account, knowing that if sample one comes back with a positive result, and this is how it would be for anybody, it's going to result in action. So, the probability is low that it's going to be done in time.

What was his reaction when you informed him of the news?
He was notified [Tuesday] actually. And he's been the upmost professional, as anybody would expect of him, just fantastic in terms of the news receipt. I have nothing but the highest compliment to pay him in terms of his professionalism, the consummate professional truthfully.

He didn't raise any kind of issue about this at all?
Nope, not a fuss.

Did he ask for this test to take place?
No, he did not.

Did Fedor Emelianenko have to take a similar test?
No, he did not. It was just a random selection.

How does the random selection process work? In other words, how do you come to the decision that a particular fighter is going to be tested?
Well, in some cases it's a random selection truthfully. I mean, just whomever the staff member will decide to select, and in some cases if there's prior history, that is also a flag, it is. Especially in the case of athletes that may have a previous violation, as recognized by another athletic commission, it allows us that opportunity to test that individual and require a clean test prior to renewal of a license.

Since this is Barnett's second positive test, does this mean he will never be allowed to fight in California again? (Ed. note: In 2002, Barnett tested positive in Nevada for the steroid, Boldenone, following his victory over Randy Couture. He was subsequently stripped of the UFC heavyweight title.)
No, actually if you look at this, it is a license denial; a denial of the license for this bout. So it's a little different from some things in the past. There is no suspension here. There is no fine. So theoretically, if Josh were to fight out of country, there would be no opposition because we don't have the jurisdiction outside of our boundaries in other countries when it's a case like this. If he were to go to another state, it's really up to that state's athletic commission what action they want to take. There have been cases in the past where they have looked at a license denial from a commission and they could potentially say, 'You know, we're going to honor that state's license denial, we're not going to grant licensure here.' And there have been other states that have said, 'You know what? That state has denied you, but we're going to go ahead and grant you that license.' It's really as simple as that.

Why did Barnett have to apply for a new license when he fought in California last January?
Because ... he received his first one off of the prior fight with Pedro Rizzo.

So, because that was the first time he had fought in the United States on over two years, he had to apply for a license, which he got it, and then as a result, that allowed him to fight in the second fight against Gilbert Yvel?
Exactly. Because he was still licensed, and in the timing of this fight on August 1, his license from the Pedro Rizzo fight was expired, so this was a brand new license for him. Because the license he got under the first two times for Affliction was actually in effect from July of 2008.

Many fighters have openly questioned the CSAC's testing methods in the past. Do you feel comfortable with everything that has transpired in terms of this particular testing process?
The inspector that observed this particular test is one of our drug testing experts in terms of the correction procedure, and works on many events of this nature, and oversees a lot of the drug testing that's performed by our staff. In this particular case, this was a hands-on test that he performed himself.

So in terms of the correction procedure, it was flawless as recognized by the laboratory upon delivery of the sample the same day. And in terms of the lab itself, we have been using the same lab that tests the NFL and the International Olympic Games, as recently as the last Games, they tested every sample ever took there. They test the NCAA for all the sports, all minor league baseball. It's a very, very tough lab to dispute - the best of them all.

Can you shed some more light on the banned substance he tested positive for, Drostanolone?
Yeah. It's been classified by the laboratory as a true anabolic steroid.

Can there be any other reason for one to have it in their system?
No, it's currently a prohibited substance, where in this case -- this is one of the substances that is prohibited from even having the mere presence of it in your system. Sometimes there are threshold cutoffs with certain drugs that people may use. This is one of those substances where the mere presence of it in the urine is a positive finding.

Were there high levels of it in his system?
The levels of it were not calculated in terms of this particular drug because it is one of those drugs where the mere presence is enough.

Has Affliction contacted the commission about a possible replacement yet?
No, we've just heard the rumors that have been out there, but nothing concrete at this time.

Would you have an issue if his opponent were to be Vitor Belfort, considering the fact that he was supposed to fight at 185 pounds and would now be fighting a heavyweight?
It's hard for to me say about that at this time, but considering the other two names that I've seen there, I think it'd be likely that the other two be a lot easier to approve at this point than that one. Not to say that's it's not an approvable fight; there are just a lot of questions that need to be asked. There would be some quick decisions that would need to be made, and until we have something concrete, we are not prepared to move in that direction. Not to say that it wouldn't, it's just that we don't have anything concrete at this time.

Will anyone else be randomly tested for this particular event?
Potentially, but definitely for other upcoming events. ... Because in terms of the Barnett test, even though the rules had passed in the earlier part of this year, allowing a test of this nature to occur, California was truly breaking new ground here even though Nevada has done similar testing for quite some time, this is the first time it had ever been done in California. So we really didn't know what it was going to be like, or how it was going to work out. Particularly in the case of, where you're randomly calling someone up and you say, 'You have x amount of hours to appear for this test, or x amount of days,' because literally that phone call can come at any time. So it was almost a trial, so to speak, to see what the process was going to be like moving forward so we can learn from this. And it just so happens that the first one we've ever done here in California produced a result.

This is the first one ever?
First one ever. I mean, right out of the gate.

That's incredible.
It's unbelievable.

Have you done any since?
No, because at this point it was truly a trial case because this was a different type of test in terms of the setting. Normally, we're testing in settings where the place, the location, everything is predetermined; everybody knows where they're going to be, and the athletes know they're going to be tested. Everybody knows that stuff ahead of time. And in California it's generally done after the win, or in some cases day of fight. But everybody knows generally when it's coming. This was something so unique because we have never done it before.

Is it safe to say that all fighters are aware of the fact that they could be called upon to take a random drug test?
Well, I would hope so considering that we did a press release on the rule changes back when they first occurred. And actually I remember that going out because I had a hand in not only typing it, but releasing it. It went out where it was reported. A lot of times information is shared through various reporting sites, through the media, and that's where a lot of people get their information. Particularly when it comes to the martial arts community, sometimes that's the most effective way to communicate something that's coming out. And I remember when the rule change hit, because a lot of Web sites picked up and reported on it. And so I figured that at some point licensees were going to see that and say, 'Ok, there's been a change here.' But there were also some people internally in the office that figured, 'Is anybody really going to get it or pay attention until there's an incident?' And now there is one.

What an unfortunate turn of events.
Yeah, I'm surprised. I'm shocked.

[kexodusc]

Vitor used to be my fav...would love to see him beat Fedor...wouldn't bet a nickel on it though.

This points out a real problem to me in the MMA world right now - a lot of the other promotions use UFC casts-offs, 2nd rate fighters, spot-pickers, and guys more worried about getting their fair share than actually fighting.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of the way Dana White treats fighters like carnival employees until he has no choice, but the risk for Affliction et al is every time a Barnett or Kimbo Slice happens you lose credibility...which only solidifies the UFC's stranglehold on the sport.

I don't see any way Fedor doesn't go to the UFC to beat up Brock Lesnar now...Dana could pay him double what he wants and still make money on that one fight.

[kexodusc]

Well geez...I almost sound prophetic in my last post now...bye-bye Affliction...

Hope to see Tito come back again...I still think he and Machida have another fight in them.

[bobsticks]

5853

http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Report-Fedor-Emelianenko-signs-with-Strikeforce.html


I couldn't be happier.

[kexodusc]

This just cements in my mind that he prefers fighting casts offs and has-beens rather than taking on the best of the best. He's the Lennox Lewis of MMA. And he fears Lesnar. I'm very sad about this...he could have made a zillion dollars and cemented his legacy....instead we get this. Bah.

On the flip side, I'm glad there's still another game in town keeping the UFC honest.

[bobsticks]

This just cements in my mind that he prefers fighting casts offs and has-beens rather than taking on the best of the best. He's the Lennox Lewis of MMA. And he fears Lesnar. I'm very sad about this...he could have made a zillion dollars and cemented his legacy....instead we get this. Bah..

Well, now you're just instigating. First, I doubt that Fedor is scared of anyone. Moreover, you can't tell me that Overeem, Werdum, Monson, Kharitonov, Rodgers and Buentello don't match up in every way with whatever list of UFC top heavies you want to draw up.

As far as making money goes, Fedor is a paid partner in M-1 Global with whom Strikeforce has agreed to partner. I would imagine he's making as much, if not more than he would be under a binding exclusive contract with UFC. Besides, it's only a three-fight contract...

...which leads us to remember that on Fedor's side of the globe the names I mentioned are much more respected than Lesnar or Couture (who they think is a can) and they've probably never even heard of Velasquez or Carwin.

Finally, I think it's important to remember that Fedor is an extremely humble, extremely family-oriented man whose main training partners are "little" brothers Ivan and Aleks. Because of his criminal background Aleks has had a difficult time gaining entry into the US, which may well be a contributing factor in the decision. We're talking about a guy that has spent his winnings buying a mansion for his mum while driving a Toyota himself.



On the flip side, I'm glad there's still another game in town keeping the UFC honest.

Absolutely. History has never shown monopolies to be beneficial for any industry in the long-term sense...just ask Vince MacMahon, lol....

[bobsticks]

5859

Just in case you were interested, a group photo of those amazing Emilianenko brothers, two of which are top-ten heavies on the planet...

[kexodusc]

I'm over my initial disappointment and take back everything I said about Fedor. Damn, I just really wanted to see him KO Lesnar (or be KO'd, that's my dream fight now). Guess I blamed him. A moment of weakness. Hey, I'm human.

Can't blame him for leveraging M-1 in the negotiations. Can't blame Dana for his stance either.

[bobsticks]

Yep, it's all about the business...though not cockchestner (his time will come)...mebbe we'll get to see the dismantling of Rodgers who has become a cult figure a la Kimbo...

[kexodusc]

Yep, it's all about the business...though not cockchestner (his time will come)...mebbe we'll get to see the dismantling of Rodgers who has become a cult figure a la Kimbo...
Yeah, I guess Rogers could get in there against Fedor. I'd like to see Arlovski again, I think he can take Fedor if everything goes right for him.

Werdum, meh....

Nog and Couture could be a good fight. I think Nog really wants another piece of Mir after last month..

Who's Brandon Vera's next fight?

[bobsticks]

Lol, Brandon Vera...major meh...

Arlovski's done. If I wasn't so lazy I'd find the recent article in which he hmmned-and-hawwed about his future in MMa and boxing and with Freddie Roach. Ol' boy is completely lost and unfocused. None the less, it would be a draw.

Rogers ain't nobody...too one demensional, even moreso than Lesnar. Yes, he KTFO of Andre simply by method of watching tape. Arlovski has the terrible habit of backing straight up when confronted with a stinging face shot...no head movement, no lateral movement. Watch the Ben Rothwell fight. If Ben had been a bit more aggressive he'd have finished that fight in sinilar fashion to Rogers.

Btw, one of the things that annoys me about UFC is ho a can like Rothwell instantly becomes a top-ten contender merely by signing a contract. A month ago Rothwell was frowned upon (legitimately) for his egg-like persona and unremarkable finishing skills. Now he's the second coming over at Sherdog...double-meh...

[3LB]

Is all you guys ever talk about is UFC?

[kexodusc]

Is all you guys ever talk about is UFC?
You cut me 3LB, you cut me deep.

[kexodusc]

UFC 101 goes down as one of the most boring in history...but this should be a study in the significance of weight classes.

First, BJ Penn - funny how a few pounds turns him from mediocre to nearly unstoppable. You can't fight genetics. Florian looked better this time out, I think another year or so under his belt he might contend. But BJ showed that his speed, strength and and stamina are much more impressive at a more natural weight.

I think the same applies to GSP. He's not heavy on fight day now, going to 185 would be so un-natural for him...Silva dropping much lower than 185 would probably weaken him to kitten status...as much as that would be the best fight of all time, don't think it can be done. Unless GSP is willing to fight a guy as good or better than him with a serious handicap? Money might convince him, but it wouldn't convince me of much, as it wouldn't be a match of both guys at their best.

It was beautiful to see Anderson humiliate Griffin...see how fast he fled the Octagon? Griffin's no slouch in there, but he was completely outclassed by Silva..Finally we see a decent oppenent put away again by Silva. Who is going to beat this guy?

[3LB]

You cut me 3LB, you cut me deep.

I mean, aren't there other sanctioning bodies out there. Sure, UFC has its own network contract (Spike), but I do watch a lot of WEC as well, and it seems a red-headed stepchild here in this thread, even though its owned by the same people that own UFC. I like watching all the weight classes, even in boxing.

After Lezner's success in the UFC it looks as though other WWE wrestlers might migrate over to MMA...that would be a bad thing. Lezner's antics after his fight with Mir plus his obvious steroids use will destroy the dignity MMA in general and the credibilty of the UFC in particular. Its one thing to go to a pro-wrestling show where you know its fake, but quite another when you think something is legit and you start to wonder if yer gettin yanked around. I saw Lezner's post fight appology but why does this guy think the UFC or MMA needs those kinds of antics. UFC president Dana White should fine the crap outta him and set an example.

I also regret that White plans to take WEC into the PPV arena as well (sometime this year or next), when in the past you could see current matches and championships. Too bad. I hope this plan fails.

[kexodusc]

Oh no, we follow all MMA, though you have to admit the UFC has more promotions and marquis fights most of the year so it's bound to dominate discussion.

I was shocked to see Torres KO'd by Bowles this weekend. IMO though, last night's card was far more entertaining than UFC 101.

[3LB]

I was shocked to see Torres KO'd by Bowles this weekend. IMO though, last night's card was far more entertaining than UFC 101.

I find that WEC cards are usually fairly competetive, though there have been some shockers, like last night's Torres/Bowles fight, and like last year's first Brown/Faber fight.

It was a tad scary seeing Torres pounded in the face like that (what was the ref thinking?)
But Torres, like Faber, started believing in his own hype. Don't get me wrong, I like Faber and Torres, but these pretty boys needed the wake-up call.

I also agree with your statement made about BJ Penn - dude looked like a slob trying to fight GSP, especially after all the smack talk on BJ's part...pathetic. But he is indeed a different animal at 155lbs. Penn spoke of retiring holding two belts had he won, so maybe he was considering that more than winning. He seemed to lose interest in fighting when he realized GSP wasn't impressed.

Its funny to talk of such differences in fighters when moving up and down the divisions, considering we're only talking 10 to 15lbs...hell, I wished 15lbs still made a difference with me;)

[kexodusc]

I find that WEC cards are usually fairly competetive, though there have been some shockers, like last night's Torres/Bowles fight, and like last year's first Brown/Faber fight.

It was a tad scary seeing Torres pounded in the face like that (what was the ref thinking?)
But Torres, like Faber, started believing in his own hype. Don't get me wrong, I like Faber and Torres, but these pretty boys needed the wake-up call.

I also agree with your statement made about BJ Penn - dude looked like a slob trying to fight GSP, especially after all the smack talk on BJ's part...pathetic. But he is indeed a different animal at 155lbs. Penn spoke of retiring holding two belts had he won, so maybe he was considering that more than winning. He seemed to lose interest in fighting when he realized GSP wasn't impressed.

Its funny to talk of such differences in fighters when moving up and down the divisions, considering we're only talking 10 to 15lbs...hell, I wished 15lbs still made a difference with me;)

Depending on the weight class, the 10-15 lbs could be as much as 20-30 though on fight day...that's a lot of "fight weight" tacked back on. I'm amazed how close to 170 GSP stays compared to some, 5 lbs or so, when other guys are dropping 15-20 during the cut.
You have to think a 185 guy is probably around 200 lbs on fight day, and GSP might be at 185-190. That's a good weekend of binge drinking and wings for you and me, but to an elite performance athlete that's quite a bit of ground.

That makes Silva even more amazing to me, though I think he's naturally right in between middleweight and light-heavyweight. That guy's a freak.

[3LB]

You have to think a 185 guy is probably around 200 lbs on fight day, and GSP might be at 185-190.

That makes Silva even more amazing to me, though I think he's naturally right in between middleweight and light-heavyweight. That guy's a freak.

I didn't realize fighters would add weight before a fight, nor did I know that that was allowed, thus the weigh-in.

Silva has such great striking technique, long range, short range - he's lethal. He looks like a lanky dude at 6'2", belying his 205 weight. He's as adept at kicking or kneeing as he is punching, whereas many fighters just throw a few kicks to keep an opponent honest. Silva seems to take on a semi Jack Johnson stance just daring a fighter to try a leg or body kick, whereby Silva catches it and strikes. And it isn't like this guys ground game is a slouch either. "The Spider" is a good nickname for him because he has about eight ways to take someone out.

[kexodusc]

I didn't realize fighters would add weight before a fight, nor did I know that that was allowed, thus the weigh-in.

Silva has such great striking technique, long range, short range - he's lethal. He looks like a lanky dude at 6'2", belying his 205 weight. He's as adept at kicking or kneeing as he is punching, whereas many fighters just throw a few kicks to keep an opponent honest. Silva seems to take on a semi Jack Johnson stance just daring a fighter to try a leg or body kick, whereby Silva catches it and strikes. And it isn't like this guys ground game is a slouch either. "The Spider" is a good nickname for him because he has about eight ways to take someone out.
The fighters have to make weight 20-30 hrs before their fight...they usually dehydrate, empty their systems of fluid, crap etc, and can shed 10-20 lbs for the cut to make weight, then put it back on so they are actually fighting in the ring well above the weight class restricition. They are weak as a kitten when they get on those scales...seriously...Then they load up on high energy foods, fluids and return to natural weight. This is legal for all so it's not cheating, just a bit arbitrary...

[bobsticks]

Is all you guys ever talk about is UFC?

Actually, I post frequently about Strikeforce and the defunct PRIDE and Affliction.

Right now, however, when you combine the frequency of UFC shows and that fact that Dana has done a good job at putting some good weightclasses together, it shouldn't be surprising that they get a preponderance of the press.

Of late, I'll give credit to the UFC for putting together some unique, if inconsistent, fight cards. UFC 102 was one of the best events of the year with alot of fighters putting on a show. Nog versus Randy was a terrific fight (called that one a month ago), good to see Nate destroy the Maia hype and Silva is for real.

Just at the point where I'm considering swearing off UFC forever and not having another MMA conversation with an American for a year, Dana comes up and pulls one outta his arse.

Btw, remember the name "Mousasi"...you'll be hearing alot of it soon...though Kex'll tell you Brandon Vera is the second coming, lol...

[kexodusc]

Btw, remember the name "Mousasi"...you'll be hearing alot of it soon...though Kex'll tell you Brandon Vera is the second coming, lol...
Oh what's that? Sticks? I didn't recognize you with the avatar back...:ciappa:

Though I agree, 102 was a surprisingly good card. I don't for a minute believe Nog is too old and tired to contend...

[bobsticks]

Don't show yer but to me, pal...there'll be more sigbets in the future to be sure...

[kexodusc]

I'monna get it bad, ain't I?

[bobsticks]

I'monna get it bad, ain't I?

It'll be shameful...

[bobsticks]

...watchu say, big boy...you ready?

My initial offer: How's about I take Kosch, Junior, and Vitor?

[kexodusc]

Hmmm, I really want to take this straight up again, but I just can't Sticks...I'll be honest - I'd pick the same 3 and Vitor is only one of my all-time favs.

So, my counter...gimmie Koschek and I'll take that loser Cro Cop, then bet against my boy. Koscheck, Franklin and Filipovic.

Tag...

[bobsticks]

I can't do it...I can't go with Trigg...

How's about we look at the Griffin/Franca bout...I'll take Griffin, leaving you CroCop, Franklin, and Franca?

[kexodusc]

I can't do it...I can't go with Trigg...

How's about we look at the Griffin/Franca bout...I'll take Griffin, leaving you CroCop, Franklin, and Franca?
Ugh, we think a like...Pick a different fight...I'm sure whichever guy I picked would be on the wrong end of the peeing in a cup test. :)

I also like Kampmann and both Miller's to win. You must disagree with me on one of those fights?

[bobsticks]

I also like Kampmann and both Miller's to win. You must disagree with me on one of those fights?

Yup, we do think alike...'specially with the Millers. ..don't care about the odds I think Cole Miller's reach will outdo Efrain's overrated mucking and grinding.

Alright, let's take it to the undercard. How's about I take Vladimir Matyushenko and you stick with the Croatian theme?

Hence: Sticks: Vitor, Junior & Vladyballgame
Kix: Franklin, CroCop & Igor Pokrajac

[kexodusc]

Yup, we do think alike...'specially with the Millers. ..don't care about the odds I think Cole Miller's reach will outdo Efrain's overrated mucking and grinding.

Alright, let's take it to the undercard. How's about I take Vladimir Matyushenko and you stick with the Croatian theme?

Hence: Sticks: Vitor, Junior & Vladyballgame
Kix: Franklin, CroCop & Igor Pokrajac
I don't know anything about him, other than what I just read about him being Croation and Cro Cop's top sparring buddy, but with a name like Poker Jack I can't lose.

My prediction:
With a mix of kix and lethal blows,
Bobby Styxx will be eatin' Cro

http://www.appliedlanguage.com/flags_of_the_world/large_flag_of_croatia.gif

Well bargained.

[bobsticks]

Well bargained.


That's howya gotta roll when dealin' with an old hand such as yerself...if that wouldn't have worked I'd have called a third on how many times Rogan screams, "Unbelievable!!!!" and taken a sidebet on how many ushers got punched.

[kexodusc]

That's howya gotta roll when dealin' with an old hand such as yerself...if that wouldn't have worked I'd have called a third on how many times Rogan screams, "Unbelievable!!!!" and taken a sidebet on how many ushers got punched.
What's the over/under on Rogan's "world class Brazilian Jiu Jitsu"?

[bobsticks]

What's the over/under on Rogan's "world class Brazilian Jiu Jitsu"?

-450 through the first two rounds of the Franca fight...if it makes it past that it's pretty well even-on...unless it's being used in a negative....as in, "Frank Trigg doesn't have world class BJJ"...

[kexodusc]

-450 through the first two rounds of the Franca fight...if it makes it past that it's pretty well even-on...unless it's being used in a negative....as in, "Frank Trigg doesn't have world class BJJ"...
Well that's the thing though, according to Rogan, Trigg has world class BJJ. So does Ortiz, Henderson, Rampage...pretty sure Goldy has world class BJJ too.

I remember he's made a few good one liners about getting in the ass sniffing guard and something about a female goat's genitalia though...I like Rogan, you just have to take the bad with the good....

[bobsticks]

Dude, I love Rogan...he has a passion and knowledge of the sport that few rival...and, yes, you're right, you do take the good with the bad but the good far outways his occasional silliness, IMO.

There is what I call "The Rogan Curse" however. I've been amazed at how many times Joe will be extolling the virtues of someone at the precise moment that they get ktfo.

[bobsticks]

Fedor vs Rogers Nov 7 on CBS
September 17, 2009 03:45 PM
FEDOR VS. BRETT ROGERS NOV. 7 ON CBS
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/tem ... &zoneid=13
Thursday, September 17, 2009 - By Steven Marrocco - MMAWeekly.com
Consensus top-ranked heavyweight Fedor Emelianenko will make his Strikeforce debut against Brett Rogers Nov. 7 on CBS, MMAWeekly has learned from a source close to negotiations.

An announcement from Strikeforce and CBS is expected Thursday afternoon.

The main card will be broadcast on the Tiffany network from 9 p.m. to 11 p.m. E.S.T. A venue will be finalized next week. A broadcast platform for the undercard is still in development.

Check back with MMAWeekly.com for updates on this story as they become available.

[kexodusc]

Well, it seems kinda silly to me...Giving away the best fight you can throw together for free? It's risky, could payoff if it grows the brand, but it could also backfire if the card sucks, or the unthinkable happens.
This is a no-win situation for Fedor, if he wins, so what he's supposed to with tremendous ease...if he loses, the myth is dispelled and Strikeforce is in bad shape star power wise.

However, if you're Rogers, this is the chance of a lifetime. Beat Fedor, and take your place among the top 5 maybe, and put yourself in a great position to bargain with promotions for the best deal in the future. I think a lot of people will be cheering for him.

Will UFC retaliate by airing something else at the same time?

[bobsticks]

Well, it seems kinda silly to me...Giving away the best fight you can throw together for free? It's risky, could payoff if it grows the brand, but it could also backfire if the card sucks, or the unthinkable happens.
This is a no-win situation for Fedor, if he wins, so what he's supposed to with tremendous ease...if he loses, the myth is dispelled and Strikeforce is in bad shape star power wise.

However, if you're Rogers, this is the chance of a lifetime. Beat Fedor, and take your place among the top 5 maybe, and put yourself in a great position to bargain with promotions for the best deal in the future. I think a lot of people will be cheering for him.

Will UFC retaliate by airing something else at the same time?


Yeah, but on the other hand, go big or go home...I like the fact that they're trying to make a statement. Further, between the investment of M1 and the ad revenues from CBS, I suspect they'll be just fine.

I do agree, for Rogers this is the chance of a lifetime.

[kexodusc]

Yeah, but on the other hand, go big or go home...I like the fact that they're trying to make a statement. Further, between the investment of M1 and the ad revenues from CBS, I suspect they'll be just fine.

I do agree, for Rogers this is the chance of a lifetime.
That's just it...Risky business. The upside is substantial though.

The more I think about it, the less downside I see really. I suspect the CBS deal might have been more favorable than PPV because they don't have the marketing machine, or the brand power that UFC has....yet. This could be a page out of WWF(E) or boxing from the 1980's.

Hopefully the ratings do well. The heavyweight talent isn't great, but there's lots of fighters not in the UFC that can entertain...someone's got to emerge the alternative.

Hopefully it does well.

[bobsticks]

This could be a page out of WWF(E) or boxing from the 1980's.

Hopefully the ratings do well. The heavyweight talent isn't great, but there's lots of fighters not in the UFC that can entertain...someone's got to emerge the alternative..

I had the exact same thought.

[bobsticks]

FYI, Vlady takes a unanimous decision...lotta good ground work by both....Pokrajac defended the guilllotine well...

[bobsticks]

Great first round round for CroCop...he threw some great left hooks against the defense for the LHK...Won some money on Daley and Griffin so I'm good with it... but you may well be sneaking up from the rear to tie, eh?...

[bobsticks]

BAM!!!, how's about that clinch and that knee...Kexo, you, my friend should concentrate less on your average skill, average intelligence and average carpentry skills and choose some fighters...

...retribution will be forthcoming...

[kexodusc]

(falls to knees, throws fist to the sky)
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

(hangs head in defeat)
Mine is the shame...

[kexodusc]

Hey Sticks, check your mailbox...technical difficulties...

[kexodusc]

Your love is like bad, bad medicine...

[kexodusc]

2 weeks can't come fast enough...

Now, I did happen to catch E1 of TUF Heavyweights. Gonna be an interesting season methinks...can't wait for the payoff with Rampage and Evans...I don't like Evans mouth, but he's got some mad skills. But he hasn't fought anything like a pissed of Jackson before so all bets are off.

How many fights does Kimbo slice win? 0, 1, 2 the whole f'n show?
I think he surprises. He looks a bit nervous, intimidated, but focused and determined to learn. A scared fighter can be a dangerous fighter. He didn't go there to be embarassed and he wants to win real bad.

If he starts working on some other parts of his game he might be able to win a few. He can fight. Can he defend against jiu-jitsu and wrestling though?

Once again I think TUF will be more exciting than the PPV's have been lately.

[bobsticks]

Yeah, there's TUF...there's UFC PPV's and there's Strikeforce...but c'mon, we all know "BloodyElbow" is the stuff...

Tank Abbott v Butterbean?! DMX v somebody?! ...worth the 56 cent price of admission...I can die a happy man...

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/9/29/1060198/tank-vs-butterbean-alabama-pride#comments

[bobsticks]

Just a reminder....



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[kexodusc]

I'd love to see a rematch - don't expect the outcome to change, but I think it would go 3 long rounds and be a great fight - AA was doing very well unitl he flung his body into Fedor's hook in a most flukey KO.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think threads where only TWO people participate should be deleted in order to save bandwidth. Seems like a waste to me.

:biggrin5:

[3LB]

AA was doing very well unitl he flung his body into Fedor's hook in a most flukey KO.

I've seen a similar theme in quite a few fights where a guys has the upper hand and lands a flurry of punches and then rushes in for the kill...and gets dropped. I had to go back and look at that to see what the hell happened.

reminiscent of that first Brown/Faber fight when Uriah got caught flush with a right while trying one his of cutesy moves.

[3LB]

I think threads where only TWO people participate should be deleted in order to save bandwidth. Seems like a waste to me.

:biggrin5:


It gave you sumpin ta do, dinnit?

;)

[kexodusc]

I think threads where only TWO people participate should be deleted in order to save bandwidth. Seems like a waste to me.

:biggrin5:
Is that where all your posts went?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Sorry, THREE people.

[bobsticks]

Sorry, THREE people.

Well, why don't you participate?....

This sport is better than Soccer, better than Baseball, better than Football....better tah Rugby....

...Lol, you're worried about bandwith...Im asking you to join Kex and 3LB and I....

and btw, if u haven't had a chance to watch the baddest man on the plannet...the only guy since Carlos Hatchock that makes me feel a level of humility...then watch this...


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[bobsticks]

However, if you're Rogers, this is the chance of a lifetime. Beat Fedor, and take your place among the top 5 maybe, and put yourself in a great position to bargain with promotions for the best deal in the future. I think a lot of people will be cheering for him.


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I don't think it worked out the way Rogers wanted, although he did put up a decent showing for himself. IMO, when his gameplan failed to execute he failed to change the gameplan....

[bobsticks]

6404....

[kexodusc]

In hindsight, maybe they threw Rogers in there a bit too early? Other than his size, what did he bring to that fight?

I thought Fedor looked very unlike his normal self...hope age isn't catching up with him...

[bobsticks]

Hey Kex and 3LB...any opinions on Kieth Jardine getting worked...and how about that Court MaGee?

[kexodusc]

You knew with a first name like Courtney, the kid was gonna be tough - I think this guy's got serious potential to be another regular name in the circuit. His past gives him perspective and maturity beyond his years. He doesn't talk much and seems focused and driven. He's got the mental stuff down already - the rest should fall into place for him. He's got a long ways to go but I like him.

Jardine has been a gate keeper of sorts for a few years now - beat him and get to fight the upper echelon guys. Not sure he's still in that role after his latest embarassment. Actually, the way things have gone lately, he might be done at UFC - they seem to drop guys not named Chuck who have losing streaks pretty quick nowadays.

[TheHills44060]

good Strikeforce matches on tonight

[bobsticks]

good Strikeforce matches on tonight

Yes.

Feador versus Werdum will be a lot closer than people think. Werdum has the kind of size and strength that will give "The Last Emperor" problems. Combining that with a black belt in BJJ and a wealth of experience he could prove to be a most worthy adversary. The knock on Werdum has always been th eunpredictability of his conditioning at showtime.

We'll see.

Frankly , I've always viewed FW and Overeem as greater challengers than Brock.

[bobsticks]

Backstage snappy of both fighters...Werdum looks great, in shape, almost "svelte"...how will this transfer over? We shall see...Many factors, weight loss per force/striking; where is Feador?...I'm psyched...

[kexodusc]

Wow. What a terrible way to ruin a legacy. :(

Full props to Werdum for staying composed and pulling off the win but I'm still in shock that this actually happened the way it did. Not much of a fight really. Werdum has the family's number I guess?

This is gonna launch all the "I told you so" remarks. Which isn't really fair, even the best get caught in a submission or tagged on the chin sooner or later. We'll get rematch likely.

If I'm Dana White I try to sign Werdum at all costs.

[Worf101]

I think the two big fights on the card cost MMA more than it gave it.

1. The Cyborg contest was about as sporting as watching pitt bulls in the ring and one of em's wearing a muzzle. Mismatches happen in sport all the time but theirs mercy rules in the contact sports and they should be used. Mebbe I'm old school but the sight of some refugee from the WWE pounding some other woman's face into jelly, kneeing her in the mouth, hitting her on the back of the head for 8 plus minutes is NOT what I consider sport and NOONE would accuse me of being a bleeding heart. I know MMA's supposed to be "tough" but this was just plain cruelty. If we saw a man treating a dog like that we'd put him in jail.

2. Main event was good WHILE IT LASTED. No sport likes a quick stoppage, but while knockouts are accepted in combat sports and folks go home somewhat happy, submission holds are another thing altogether. From a combat purists standpoint submission holds add a great deal of drama to matches and provides a element of uncertainty to all contest. A person flat on their back can, with the right hold, turn the tables comletely. In no other sport is this true, usually they call it down and out for a reason. However, I'm not sure as a sporting fan I'd be too happy spending all that money to go to a strike force event only to see it end in a submission in the first minute of the first round. A couple of times and I'd be sitting at home watching something else and saving my money. .

Just the observations of an outsider.

Worf

[kexodusc]

Good points Worf.

I'm one of the few who prefers submissions. There's rarely a case where a submission happens by luck - and even when it does, the underdog is using heart, determination and a never quit attitude to find that lucky opening and capitalize. It's a bit more noble to me than the striker's hail mary. But what I most love about it is the fact one competitor dominates the other's will to fight. You make the other guy say "I quit", "I've had enough", "you beat me", "you're better than me", etc...fighter's don't usually quit with a KO. You don't break their spirt - just zap their consciousness. Not the same for me. A KO is purely physical, the submission adds psychology and spirit to the mix.

But I love a good KO too.

So I was very happy Werdum broke Emelianenko and made Fedor himself piss on his legacy. Rather than wild punch landing a miracle shot.

But yeah, the night left me wanting to be honest. Oh well.

At least there's a must see rematch now.

[Worf101]

Good points Worf.

I'm one of the few who prefers submissions. There's rarely a case where a submission happens by luck - and even when it does, the underdog is using heart, determination and a never quit attitude to find that lucky opening and capitalize. It's a bit more noble to me than the striker's hail mary. But what I most love about it is the fact one competitor dominates the other's will to fight. You make the other guy say "I quit", "I've had enough", "you beat me", "you're better than me", etc...fighter's don't usually quit with a KO. You don't break their spirt - just zap their consciousness. Not the same for me. A KO is purely physical, the submission adds psychology and spirit to the mix.

But I love a good KO too.

So I was very happy Werdum broke Emelianenko and made Fedor himself piss on his legacy. Rather than wild punch landing a miracle shot.

But yeah, the night left me wanting to be honest. Oh well.

At least there's a must see rematch now.
I found your take on the mental significance of the submission hold to be quite interesting. I can see your fascination with it. I do find it interesting how many submission holds occur with somone flat on their back managing to grab a hold of some vital bit and salvaging victory from defeat. I guess the Russian was a beast but had few friends. He didn't look in great shape to me but....

Worf

[bobsticks]

Clearly I had to take a break from this thread to regain some composure and perspective.

If your name isn't Marciano you're eventually gonna lose one and I did go on record as saying tha Werdum was emphatically not the pushover that everyone assumed. Upon viewing the replay I strongly suspect that Fab went down to draw Feador in...that punch really didn't look to be "all that"...

Feador escaped the first armbar attempt but was too close to the edges and chaos ensued.

Kudos and props to both fighters for great sportsmanship after the fact.

FB: "He's still the best, I was only for a night"...classy

[kexodusc]

Clearly I had to take a break from this thread to regain some composure and perspective.

If your name isn't Marciano you're eventually gonna lose one and I did go on record as saying tha Werdum was emphatically not the pushover that everyone assumed. Upon viewing the replay I strongly suspect that Fab went down to draw Feador in...that punch really didn't look to be "all that"...

Feador escaped the first armbar attempt but was too close to the edges and chaos ensued.

Kudos and props to both fighters for great sportsmanship after the fact.

FB: "He's still the best, I was only for a night"...classy
I agree with you there, Werdum wasn't the usual cannon fodder Fedor's been fed for too long now and people should have expected him to be pushed. Aside from Arlovski (who did make Fedor look human for a few split seconds before Fedor got bored) Fab was easily the best competition Fedor's had in 5 years or so. Maybe since Nog back in 2004.

Man, Fedor back in the day was untouchable. My hope is the loss gets the competitive juices flowing and he regains his form. Or at least that this stirs up the heavyweight division so some good fighters either seek him out (leave UFC) or he hunts them down.

My preference would be to see him drop down a weight class - think of the fight possibilities if a leaner Fedor entered the ring...

It'd be awesome if Lesnar lost too. I notice Mr. White is decidedly quiet about Fedor, he's probably not feeling too comfortable with Brock right now.

Speaking of, I don't think the year off will hurt Brock at all, he's on the right side of the learning curve and has probably upped his game in striking and submission defence just because he was so raw. But man if Carwin wins (very real possibility) we could be calling Werdum the top dog at Heavyweight. Never thought I'd say that.

As for class - if Brock wins, pretty sure we'll hear a shot fired at one of Werdum or Fedor, if not both.

I'm more interested in the Yosh-Leben fight. The rest of the card looks underwhelming, but I'm willing to be surprised.

[kexodusc]

Oh, I lost 200 bucks on Fedor last weekend too so if I sound a bit anti-Fedor this week, well, y'all know why.

[bobsticks]

Hey kexo...

How ugly is this Sonnen/Spider thing gonna get?

I'd rather see Anderson fight Shogun and not have to listen to Chael but I've mostly been keen on Sengoku lately anyway....

[PeruvianSkies]

Hey kexo...

How ugly is this Sonnen/Spider thing gonna get?

I'd rather see Anderson fight Shogun and not have to listen to Chael but I've mostly been keen on Sengoku lately anyway....

I was a huge Silva fan, but then he got way too confident and cocky and then goofy and i'd like to see him get back to his normal self in the cage, I think Sonnen is the type of guy to do just that. It's gonna be exciting one way or another.

[PeruvianSkies]

Here are my predictions for the upcoming UFC 117

Silva Vs. Sonnen - Silva wins by K.O. in the 2nd round.

As much as I could like to see Sonnen win or ANYone win to show that Silva is more human that some believe, I don't think he will last due to Anderson's ability to land a large percentage of his strikes.

Fitch Vs. Alves - Fitch wins by decision.

Next to GSP, I think Fitch is one of the top guys in the UFC in terms of well-roundedness. He is a gritty, tough mofo who can win by a variety of means. However, Alves has loads of strength (thanks to steroids I am sure), but I think Fitch will weather the early storm and take the fight the distance where he will score later round points and win by decision.

Guida Vs. Dos Anjos - Dos Anjos wins by submission (triangle).

Unless Dos Anjos brings a 2x4 into the ring and smacks "the Carpenter" across his skull a few times, I doubt he'll be able to stop the fight due to a K.O. Guida has a strong chin, but his ground game has holes that a top-notch guy like Dos Anjos can find if he is able to take Guida out of his element, which might take a few rounds.

Hughes Vs. Almeida - Hughes wins by rear naked choke.

No idea why, but I feel like Hughes might be bringing his A+ game to this one and will show us his old classic moves that put him to the top of the sport just a few years ago.

Nelson Vs. Dos Santos - Dos Santos wins by K.O.

Big Country is overrated already, just because of a few wins, he hasn't fought anyone near the caliber of Junior Dos Santos who is easily in the top contention for a title shot against Brock Lesner in the near future, which I think he can do if he can get past Shane Carwin, who after a questionable defeat by Brock will probably learn a valuable lesson in conserving energy.

[kexodusc]

Hey kexo...

How ugly is this Sonnen/Spider thing gonna get?

I'd rather see Anderson fight Shogun and not have to listen to Chael but I've mostly been keen on Sengoku lately anyway....
Well, Silva is due for his Buster Douglas, but I don't see Sonnen being that guy. This is one high-profile fighter that I have just completely lost interest in. His fights are boring, partly because he's so good, partly because he's so risk averse. They need to throw some talent at him fast. It's like Lennox Lewis all over again.

[bobsticks]

...PSkies, I find it hard to argue with any of your rational although for personal reasons I'd like to see Alves win...but I'm not confident it will happen.

I read an interesting quote from Roy Nelson today. Ol' fatboy said of Dos Santos, "Hands down, I think [Junior Dos Santos is] the best guy in the UFC right now. This is my title fight, because I look at it as I think this guy can beat the best UFC has to offer." Evidently Roy isn't confident he can win either.

Kex, I agree with your assessment whole heartedly. Silva is endanger of becoming marginalized because of his talent and habits. Clearly Dana doesn't realize this but he needs to make him move up a weight class. It's sad that in the wake of Feador's loss that the number 1 guy in the world puts on snoozefests.

[bobsticks]

Anybody familiar with Marius Žaromskis? I'd like to see him move to the octagon...

[PeruvianSkies]

Anderson Silva had a few close calls in the octogon though too, if you think back Travis Lutter made a fatal mistake, but he could have finished Silva. In the Dan Henderson fight, I think it was a good matchup, but Henderson gave up his back and that was all for that one. Of course the real fight that I think Silva had was against Patrick Cote, which would have gone the distance and perhaps even in Cote's favor had he not injured his knee. The fight was turning in favor of Cote in those later exchanges.

However, Silva made Forrest Griffin just look flat-out ridiculous, which everyone was shocked about, especially after Forrest had a few upsets himself.

In the later rounds against Maia we saw Silva become way too cautious knowing that Maia was picking up the pace and was even landing here and there, but Silva eeked out the easy win, which is why I commend Dana White for being upset at fighters who don't fight, especially when they are champions.

August 7th shall be interesting.

[bobsticks]

Alright kexo, I'm callin' you out...

...and givin' you a gift...

It's been a little slow 'round these parts lately so let's keep it interesting...sigbet, through the weekend, Strikeforce tonight....I'll take Louis Taylor...

Watchu say? There ain't that much time before the bell rings...

[Dual-500]

Here are my predictions for the upcoming UFC 117

Silva Vs. Sonnen - Silva wins by K.O. in the 2nd round.

As much as I could like to see Sonnen win or ANYone win to show that Silva is more human that some believe, I don't think he will last due to Anderson's ability to land a large percentage of his strikes.

Fitch Vs. Alves - Fitch wins by decision.

Next to GSP, I think Fitch is one of the top guys in the UFC in terms of well-roundedness. He is a gritty, tough mofo who can win by a variety of means. However, Alves has loads of strength (thanks to steroids I am sure), but I think Fitch will weather the early storm and take the fight the distance where he will score later round points and win by decision.

Guida Vs. Dos Anjos - Dos Anjos wins by submission (triangle).

Unless Dos Anjos brings a 2x4 into the ring and smacks "the Carpenter" across his skull a few times, I doubt he'll be able to stop the fight due to a K.O. Guida has a strong chin, but his ground game has holes that a top-notch guy like Dos Anjos can find if he is able to take Guida out of his element, which might take a few rounds.

Hughes Vs. Almeida - Hughes wins by rear naked choke.

No idea why, but I feel like Hughes might be bringing his A+ game to this one and will show us his old classic moves that put him to the top of the sport just a few years ago.

Nelson Vs. Dos Santos - Dos Santos wins by K.O.

Big Country is overrated already, just because of a few wins, he hasn't fought anyone near the caliber of Junior Dos Santos who is easily in the top contention for a title shot against Brock Lesner in the near future, which I think he can do if he can get past Shane Carwin, who after a questionable defeat by Brock will probably learn a valuable lesson in conserving energy.
Pretty good calls here.

Sonnen impressed me - screwed up and paid the price.

The Fitch fight was a real surprise to me. I figured Fitch would give Alves a run for it - but, not dominate like he did. A good example of a quality fighter that was correctly prepared and coached for a fight and Alves was not at all prepared for Fitch - looked like his whole camp underestimated him.

Big Country was about what I expected - only even heavier and more out of shape. He needs to drop ~50 lbs and get serious - dude has talent and youth wasting away.

One of my favorites in the MMA ring is Leonard Garcia - a dark horse and the guy is awesome.

GSP is a monster. Silva? It was nice to see Sonnen kick his ass for 23 minutes.

[bobsticks]

Alright kexo, I'm callin' you out...

...and givin' you a gift...

It's been a little slow 'round these parts lately so let's keep it interesting...sigbet, through the weekend, Strikeforce tonight....I'll take Louis Taylor...

Watchu say? There ain't that much time before the bell rings...

Kexo= sissyboy :D

[PeruvianSkies]

Yeah, the Sonnen Vs. Silva was definitely one of the best fights in recent memory. It was certainly heartbreaking to see Silva basically win after getting destroyed for 99% of the fight. What was even more impressive though was Sonnen's strikes, which he landed a large percentage of, especially on a guy who is known as the most accurate fighter in the UFC. What will be very interesting to see though is what happens next with Silva because I think Dana White has finally found the type of fighters to send in there to put on a good show. If the right type of fighter comes along who can bring those skills and watch the Sonnen fight and really see the areas of weakness for Silva, they could earn themselves that belt. It was pretty obvious from this past fight that Silva is not very good on the ground once he is there and really doesn't like being on his back, although he has some good defense and is dangerous at times, he was really unable to defend a large portion of the ground-n-pound, but also couldn't really get out of that spot.

Jon Fitch put on another spectacular fight, but I still don't think he has what it takes to really beat GSP and quite frankly, not very many guys have an answer for GSP. The upcoming Edgar Vs. Penn 2 should also be fascinating to watch because Edgar completely out-worked Penn in their first match and BJ really can't keep coming up with excuse after excuse, he looked pathetic in his last showing and deserved to lose, but Edgar executed a great game plan and deserved to win, simply put.

I would personally prefer to see Cain Valasquez vs. Junior Dos Santos and then have the winner of that fight go on to fight Lesner, have the loser face Carwin and then whoever wins that fight go up against whoever is holding the belt by then. I do think that Carwin could beat Lesner in a rematch, he will work on his cardio and conditioning and execute a better game plan if they rematch and Lesner knows it. I honestly don't know who I think could win if Dos Santos and Valasquez fought, both are top notch right now.

Roy Nelson took some serious serious SERIOUS punches to the face in that fight, his "button" must be one of the best in the sport because Dos Santos hits hard and knocks out everyone else that gets the full impact of his uppercuts.

[bobsticks]

...and I'm a bit nonplussed. It was clear that Brock wasn't "all there" from the locker room shots...as if something was weighing on his mind. In any case, I hadn't expected the total domination that Cain showed us.

The two things that stand out on this eve would be the obvious superiority of conditioning, both physical and mental, of Diego Sanchez and that Gabriel Gonzaga has finally just devolved into a big tub of protoplasmic goo.

...a few exciting moments surrounded by some king-hell "meh"...anyone else think that Martin Kampmann got robbed?

[kexodusc]

Tend to agree with you that Lesnar didn't look mentally ready. But Cain had the kind of quick striking game that I always figured would be Brock's weakness. It'll be a great rematch for sure.

Sanchez is a real treat to watch every time.

Yeah Kampmann got f'n robbed. One sum***** scored it 30-27, what the hell fight was that guy watching? Ugh. Seems to me there is a profound difference between winning a fight and reaching various scorecard metrics...Kampmann did the former, Shields the latter.

[Dual-500]

Martin Kampmann won the fight I watched for sure. Diego looked great - haven't seen him in the ring for a while.

Lesnar - that's an interesting situation. Overall, I think he went too far to fast. He took the title in his 4th fight and that was the 4th MMA fight of his life.

In the octagon, he looked like crap. I can't say I saw a strategy or game plan. Either it failed miserably or there just wasn't one or it was the wrong one.

Is Cain Velasquez that good? I haven't seen it yet. Is he the champ? Yes. Now we'll see how good he really is.

Cain did everything right in the fight and Brock did everything wrong. Lesnar's standup game is weak, and his ground game when he's on his back is non-existent. I'm left wondering about Lesnar's management and coaching - that seems to be painfully lacking.

I'd like to see him re-group from this like he said a champion does.

Consider me another dissapointed Lesnar fan. That being said, congrats to Velasquez for his victory - may it be short lived.

I'm sure pleased that Matt Hamill kicked Tito's butt - that and Diego's victory were the high points of UFC 121 for me.

I was channel surfing the other night and happened across K-1 Kickboxing held in Korea. Some awesome fights!!!

[bobsticks]

Martin Kampmann won the fight I watched for sure.Diego looked great - haven't seen him in the ring for a while.

Lesnar - that's an interesting situation. Overall, I think he went too far to fast. He took the title in his 4th fight and that was the 4th MMA fight of his life.

In the octagon, he looked like crap. I can't say I saw a stragety or game plan. Either it failed miserably or there just wasn't one or it was the wrong one.

Is Cain Velasquez that good? I haven't seen it yet. Is he the champ? Yes. Now we'll see how good he really is.

Cain did everything right in the fight and Brock did everything wrong. Lesnar's standup game is weak, and his ground game when he's on his back is non-existent. I'm left wondering about Lesnar's management and coaching - that seems to be painfully lacking.

I'd like to see him re-group from this like he said a champion does.

Consider me another dissapointed Lesnar fan. That being said, congrats to Velasquez for his victory - may it be short lived.

I'm sure pleased that Matt Hamill kicked Tito's butt - that and Diego's victory were the high points of UFC 121 for me.

I was channel surfing the other night and happened across K-1 Kickboxing held in Korea. Some awesome fights!!!

cosigns...

...great post and thought process. I too rejoiced at the pummeling to which Tito was subjected. What a jackass.

I agree as well about K-1/Dream...great stuff going on. For the purists one bone of contention/lamentation is that the Feador-Couture fight never happened. I always thought Overeem would have been the greatest challenge for the Last Emperor...