6.1 Upgrade

[dph1965]

I am upgrading a current 5.1 system to 6.1 and looking for a speaker package. Currently have Paradigm Titans, CC-170, Advent surrounds and a Sony Sub. I'll move this system to another room - so, I'm looking for all new system. I've had Paradigms for 6 years and been pleased, but considering going to Wharfedale or possibly even HSU
Ventriliquist system. Have no way of audtioning Wharfdales or HSU - but have been impressed w/ reviews and especially the price point of HSU system if you buy one of their subs. Obviously, I'm working on a budget, and this "upgrade" will be just to 6.1, still an entry level/intermediate system. Any feedback will be appreciated....

[whdean]

I am upgrading a current 5.1 system to 6.1 and looking for a speaker package. Currently have Paradigm Titans, CC-170, Advent surrounds and a Sony Sub. I'll move this system to another room - so, I'm looking for all new system. I've had Paradigms for 6 years and been pleased, but considering going to Wharfedale or possibly even HSU
Ventriliquist system. Have no way of audtioning Wharfdales or HSU - but have been impressed w/ reviews and especially the price point of HSU system if you buy one of their subs. Obviously, I'm working on a budget, and this "upgrade" will be just to 6.1, still an entry level/intermediate system. Any feedback will be appreciated....

You didn't say how you were going from 5.1 to 6.1 - If you are still deciding,may I suggest a Parasound cse 6.1. They are out of production, but a new one can get had on e-bay for $200 or so. It uses a Cirrus Logic Circle Surround chip to create a center rear channel out of the rear channels. It will do Dolby EX and matrix a center out of a 5.1 source - Mine has even kicked in on some ProLogic stuff. You would need a center speaker and a center amp. I am very pleased with mine.

E-mail me if you would like more ...

Bill

[dph1965]

My current system will be moved to bedroom and still used as 5.1 system. Already have AVRs narrowed down to Onkyo or Pioneer - saving most of my budget for speakers - about $1200 for Speakers and Sub. New system will be about 80% HT and 20% "background music" Already purchased 42" Toshiba widescreen and leaning towards Onkyo receiver (just because?). Will use current Panasonic DVD player. I think this may be why I'm considering HSU system, better sub within budget and then more $$ for DVDS!

[spacedeckman]

Take the Pioneer off the list. You can keep the Onkyo on, but the Pioneer isn't a player unless you are just buying by specs. In the famous words of Monty Python..."Run Away, Run Away..."

Look at Yamaha, Denon, h/k...but for crying out loud, forget Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, or JVC even exist. Read these words, learn them, live them, be happy. You were looking to upgrade? You don't upgrade going to more crappier, you want more better.

[dph1965]

Keeping my receiver budget at $500. I know they no longer produce them, what about used or "B" stock?

[Lexmark3200]

Take the Pioneer off the list. You can keep the Onkyo on, but the Pioneer isn't a player unless you are just buying by specs. In the famous words of Monty Python..."Run Away, Run Away..."

Look at Yamaha, Denon, h/k...but for crying out loud, forget Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, or JVC even exist. Read these words, learn them, live them, be happy. You were looking to upgrade? You don't upgrade going to more crappier, you want more better.

Amen to this post, brothers.....listen to Space Man....STAY AWAY from Kenwood, Sony (unless its the pricey ES line), Pioneer and ESPECIALLY JVC----that is complete crap. I would only consider Denon and Onkyo, as I did when putting together a 5.1 system, for receivers....and ended up going with an Onkyo TX SR600....solidly built unit, LIGHT YEARS better than any JVC or Kenwood, thats for sure.

[F1]

Amen to this post, brothers.....listen to Space Man....STAY AWAY from Kenwood, Sony (unless its the pricey ES line), Pioneer and ESPECIALLY JVC----that is complete crap. I would only consider Denon and Onkyo, as I did when putting together a 5.1 system, for receivers....and ended up going with an Onkyo TX SR600....solidly built unit, LIGHT YEARS better than any JVC or Kenwood, thats for sure.

Ah come on.. don't make such a sweeping statement like that without any proof!!!
And when you say Onkyo TX SR600 is LIGHT YEARS better than any JVC or Kenwood that's a complete lie! I'm sure you haven't heard JVC RX DP9 or 10 or 20. Me neither, but those 50-pounder JVCs will surely smoke your SR600 anyday. Oh btw, I used to have JVC receiver and when I compared to my bro's similarly priced Yamaha, there's no difference in performance.

[Geoffcin]

Ah come on.. don't make such a sweeping statement like that without any proof!!!
And when you say Onkyo TX SR600 is LIGHT YEARS better than any JVC or Kenwood that's a complete lie! I'm sure you haven't heard JVC RX DP9 or 10 or 20. Me neither, but those 50-pounder JVCs will surely smoke your SR600 anyday. Oh btw, I used to have JVC receiver and when I compared to my bro's similarly priced Yamaha, there's no difference in performance.

Exactly as I feel. People should post from experiance only. I've got a budget Pioneer Receiver, VSX811-S in a bedroom system and the thing is totally bullit proof. I've even had it hoooked up my 4 ohm maggie III's, although it goes into protection mode if you try to put the volume up. I've never been able to damage it though!

When you move up to the Pioneer Elite line you get state of the art performance, and direct coupled MOSFET amps that have a lot of reserve power. Pioneer should not be discounted.

[Lexmark3200]

Ah come on.. don't make such a sweeping statement like that without any proof!!!
And when you say Onkyo TX SR600 is LIGHT YEARS better than any JVC or Kenwood that's a complete lie! I'm sure you haven't heard JVC RX DP9 or 10 or 20. Me neither, but those 50-pounder JVCs will surely smoke your SR600 anyday. Oh btw, I used to have JVC receiver and when I compared to my bro's similarly priced Yamaha, there's no difference in performance.

Let me tell you something-----ANY JVC I had heard was a complete waste of cash IMO; THAT IS from experience and from demoing in many shops-----and I guess YOU are SURE that those JVCs will "smoke" my TX SR 600 any day, huh? Yeah, right......

[F1]

Let me tell you something-----ANY JVC I had heard was a complete waste of cash IMO; THAT IS from experience and from demoing in many shops-----and I guess YOU are SURE that those JVCs will "smoke" my TX SR 600 any day, huh? Yeah, right......

It is either you or those shops or both who don't know how to set up those JVCs properly. I guess I'm wasting time here.

[Lexmark3200]

It is either you or those shops or both who don't know how to set up those JVCs properly. I guess I'm wasting time here.

From my experience in the 12 volt field as well, the only JVC branded item I would spend any kind of money on would be their car CD changers. Their home stuff would be laughed at by people who normally eye brands like Rotel, Onkyo/Integra, Marantz or Avia.

[JSE]

Let me tell you something-----ANY JVC I had heard was a complete waste of cash IMO; THAT IS from experience and from demoing in many shops-----and I guess YOU are SURE that those JVCs will "smoke" my TX SR 600 any day, huh? Yeah, right......


Lex,

The fact is that most top end receivers from companies like JVC, Kenwood, Pioneer will "smoke" your Onkyo. They will "smoke" my Yamaha.

Who Cares?

One thing you will notice that most members of this board do not "badmouth" brands without any support for their views. If you don't support your statements, you have no "Board-Credibility". Simple as that.

JaaaaaaaSEeeeeeeee!

[Lexmark3200]

Lex,

The fact is that most top end receivers from companies like JVC, Kenwood, Pioneer will "smoke" your Onkyo. They will "smoke" my Yamaha.

Who Cares?

One thing you will notice that most members of this board do not "badmouth" brands without any support for their views. If you don't support your statements, you have no "Board-Credibility". Simple as that.

JaaaaaaaSEeeeeeeee!

This statement is simply not true, and has no technical backup as I was accused of having before: "The fact is that most top end receivers from companies like JVC, Kenwood, Pioneer will "smoke" your Onkyo. They will "smoke" my Yamaha."

[This Guy]

Ok, I had a JVC receiver less than a year ago. And I guess you could consider me a guy that eyes stuff from Marantz, because I traded my $100 JVC for a $320 used Marantz. No doubt the Maratz was built better and had more options, but the ound difference was by no means night and day. I could have kept that JVC and would have been perfectly happy and I would still reccomend them if someone was to put together a really cheap HT for less than a grand. Laugh at JVC? HELL NO, for $100 it's awesome, the few differences betwen the Marantz and the JVC were very subtle, it was cleaner sounding and had that extra power reserve, and could play lower impediances then the JVC. I would put money on it that in a blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between one of JVC's new $200 receievers and your Onkyo. I'm gonna agree with what Woodman says,"there is no such thing as a night and day difference in audio equipment"

-Joey

[Lexmark3200]

Ok, I had a JVC receiver less than a year ago. And I guess you could consider me a guy that eyes stuff from Marantz, because I traded my $100 JVC for a $320 used Marantz. No doubt the Maratz was built better and had more options, but the ound difference was by no means night and day. I could have kept that JVC and would have been perfectly happy and I would still reccomend them if someone was to put together a really cheap HT for less than a grand. Laugh at JVC? HELL NO, for $100 it's awesome, the few differences betwen the Marantz and the JVC were very subtle, it was cleaner sounding and had that extra power reserve, and could play lower impediances then the JVC. I would put money on it that in a blind test, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between one of JVC's new $200 receievers and your Onkyo. I'm gonna agree with what Woodman says,"there is no such thing as a night and day difference in audio equipment"

-Joey

Yeah, okay Joey....that is just RIDICULOUS for you to make a statement like that.....that there is NO night and day difference between audio components....thats like saying a Ferrari and Chevy will give you the same ownership experience....absolutely illogical and untrue. I would NEVER own any piece of JVC gear -- let alone their $200 junk -- or think of trading my Onkyo for their stuff. Dont you think there is a REASON why gear is $200 and some is $500 and up? Yeah, I DO laugh at JVC. Their stuff is a joke, and again, that is in MY OPINION. You wanna take $200 and throw it in the ****ter, go ahead but you would be better off spending that cash elsewhere for a system like in good cables and interconnects.

[F1]

....... You wanna take $200 and throw it in the ****ter, go ahead but you would be better off spending that cash elsewhere for a system like in good cables and interconnects.

You make me laugh, Lex...

Er what's the original question again.
OK, $1200 for speakers and sub. With that kind of money you can get more decent sound by getting separate bookshelf speakers + sub rather than getting a micro speaker package like Hsu Ventriloquist you mentioned. To give you idea, a quick calculation from Ascend website, you can get CBM 170 front & center, HTM 200 surround and Hsu VTF-2 for around $1200. Ok this is 5.1 system but I wouldn't really bother about 6.1 system. Off course you can get similar combo from other brands too. Good luck.

[Lexmark3200]

You make me laugh, Lex...

Er what's the original question again.
OK, $1200 for speakers and sub. With that kind of money you can get more decent sound by getting separate bookshelf speakers + sub rather than getting a micro speaker package like Hsu Ventriloquist you mentioned. To give you idea, a quick calculation from Ascend website, you can get CBM 170 front & center, HTM 200 surround and Hsu VTF-2 for around $1200. Ok this is 5.1 system but I wouldn't really bother about 6.1 system. Off course you can get similar combo from other brands too. Good luck.

Oh yeah? What is so funny about what I said F1? That $200 IS NOT THE SAME THING as a piece of gear that is $1000?? YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS? Are you on crack, sir? What exactly are you laughing at, may I ask? What was so funny? That I think JVC is absolute crap? That is MY opinion. Are you now going to argue the merits of JVC over Marantz or Rotel?

[dph1965]

Hey folks - didn't mean to start a war. I'm looking at spending as little money as possible.
I know for $1200 what I could do with a speaker system. But this is just going to be a casual HT for "everyday" purposes. That is my reasoning for saving $$$. (Heck, my girlfriend still can't figure out how to use a remote!!) I've had great experience w/ a budget Pioneer receiver used for its INTENDED purpose, that's why I'm considering Pioneer again.
That's neither here nor there. Guess my real question should have been, in reference to speakers, has anyone HEARD the HSU Ventriliquist system? (Besides price point, asthetically may be more appealing due to size) . Like I said, I don't have many chances to "audition" speakers due to location and time, and I'm not making a HUGE investment, so I'm relying on others opinions.....

Thanks for the help....

[dph1965]

Considering how my system will be used, I probably set my speaker "budget" too high. I'm always thinking of that dream system I one day will have when I can build a DEDICATED HT system, room and all - still modest, I dream small - within my reasonable limits!($1200 would just be a starting point then!) But I figured I could probably incorporate an above average sub into THIS system to use one day in a better one. I average about 5 movies a week - probably 2 of those putting a system to the test. See where I'm going? I guess that's the main reason I'm interested in the HSU system - could spend in the neighborhood of $700-$800 on a sub and get the Ventriliquist package @ $199. And yes, I do like the benefits of 6.1 over 5.1 even if it's only on a rare occassion....

[Geoffcin]

Considering how my system will be used, I probably set my speaker "budget" too high. I'm always thinking of that dream system I one day will have when I can build a DEDICATED HT system, room and all - still modest, I dream small - within my reasonable limits!($1200 would just be a starting point then!) But I figured I could probably incorporate an above average sub into THIS system to use one day in a better one. I average about 5 movies a week - probably 2 of those putting a system to the test. See where I'm going? I guess that's the main reason I'm interested in the HSU system - could spend in the neighborhood of $700-$800 on a sub and get the Ventriliquist package @ $199. And yes, I do like the benefits of 6.1 over 5.1 even if it's only on a rare occassion....

While I've never heard the HSU Ventriloquist system, your not going to do much better than the subs he makes. For just raw power, and overall musicality your not going to go wrong buying one. The real problem you face is deciding if you want to put the lion share of your funds into your sub, or get better mains. I would argue for spending your money on the mains first, or a better 6 speaker package. With your $1200 budget you've got a lot of ones to choose from. A good budget (<$400) sub in will work fine for HT in most rooms.

[dph1965]

I guess I'm just more concerned about being able to audition my mains more than a sub, and would be more willing to put money into a good sub right now and be "satisfied" with my choice of mains. NO WAY will this be my last system!!! :D

[Geoffcin]

I guess I'm just more concerned about being able to audition my mains more than a sub, and would be more willing to put money into a good sub right now and be "satisfied" with my choice of mains. NO WAY will this be my last system!!! :D
Fair enough. There's worse strategies than to buy a quality sub and build from there. I just hope your in a private home, as the big HSU will peal the drywall off of any apt adjacent, or below you!

[dph1965]

Don't scare me! I do live in a townhouse - thank goodness it is an end unit, so I push it when I know the neighbors aren't home. One of my favorites is the depth charge scenes in U-571. Thanks for the input!

[F1]

Well I agree with Geoff and think your strategy is a bit 'odd' ;) but it's your money. But I would add that actually Hsu VTF-2 is very capable to put out a lot of SPL enough to wake up your neighbor. Off course VTF-3 will give you more SPL. Based on mfg recommendation, VTF-2 is for 3000 cuft or smaller but I feel this is too conservative unless you are a bass freak. Good luck on your choice.

[dph1965]

What's your take on Ascend vs. Paradigm? I've had Paradigms for years and love them - they just seem to be going "dull" after 6-7 years.
Considering new Titans, new center CC-270 and Atoms as surrounds.
What do you think about an all HTM Ascend system? Or would you go with the CB-170?

[Lexmark3200]

Don't scare me! I do live in a townhouse - thank goodness it is an end unit, so I push it when I know the neighbors aren't home. One of my favorites is the depth charge scenes in U-571. Thanks for the input!

Agreed, totally. U-571 is about the best DTS workout you can get for a sub in a 5.1 system, short of the Haunting in DTS ES.

[F1]

What's your take on Ascend vs. Paradigm? I've had Paradigms for years and love them - they just seem to be going "dull" after 6-7 years.
Considering new Titans, new center CC-270 and Atoms as surrounds.
What do you think about an all HTM Ascend system? Or would you go with the CB-170?

If you generally like Paradigm the logical path is to upgrade to the Monitor series, or even the Studio series, and not getting the same Performance series. Good luck.

[dph1965]

But I don't want to be logical!!!! JK That most likely to happen since they are the only ones I'm considering that I can actually audition......Did hear from someone that for the $$$, the Ventriliquist system is quite good.....
Thanks for all your input!

[Geoffcin]

Agreed, totally. U-571 is about the best DTS workout you can get for a sub in a 5.1 system, short of the Haunting in DTS ES.


Let's not leave out the D-Day scene on Saving Private Ryan. I've blown 20 amp breakers on that one. (not to mention setting off burgler alarms up and down the street!)

[Lexmark3200]

Let's not leave out the D-Day scene on Saving Private Ryan. I've blown 20 amp breakers on that one. (not to mention setting off burgler alarms up and down the street!)

You Know, Geoff, I have heard that Saving Private Ryan is a KILLER DTS demo disc, and I have yet to hear it.....I believe you. For now, Im remaining stunned by the sound on Universal's DTS version of U-571 and Dreamworks' The Haunting. I will demo Private Ryan when I can.

[kelsci]

You Know, Geoff, I have heard that Saving Private Ryan is a KILLER DTS demo disc, and I have yet to hear it.....I believe you. For now, Im remaining stunned by the sound on Universal's DTS version of U-571 and Dreamworks' The Haunting. I will demo Private Ryan when I can.

Lex; SPR in DTS is certainly one of the best out there. My brother has it and I have watched it on occassion. I think one of the reasons SPR is good in both D.D. and D.T.S that S.S. had the sound mixed by his friend George at Skywalker Sound. I noticed Gary Rystrom's name in the credits. I do however have a criticism with the DTS version however; maybe it is me or I am seeing something that others have not noticed or at least to put it another way, the DTS version visually gives me some kind of brainstrain or eyestrain. There is something about the motion on this particular disc that gets to me. I have no trouble with the D.D. version of this film.

I rented U571 some time ago which does have stunning sound with those depth charges. I personally did not care for the movie though. I have the D.D. version of the HAUNTING. It sounds good. I have heard many others talk about the DTS version being a real demo dilly to listen too.

[dph1965]

wasn't stellar in your eyes? HEHEHE

[Lexmark3200]

Lex; SPR in DTS is certainly one of the best out there. My brother has it and I have watched it on occassion. I think one of the reasons SPR is good in both D.D. and D.T.S that S.S. had the sound mixed by his friend George at Skywalker Sound. I noticed Gary Rystrom's name in the credits. I do however have a criticism with the DTS version however; maybe it is me or I am seeing something that others have not noticed or at least to put it another way, the DTS version visually gives me some kind of brainstrain or eyestrain. There is something about the motion on this particular disc that gets to me. I have no trouble with the D.D. version of this film.

I rented U571 some time ago which does have stunning sound with those depth charges. I personally did not care for the movie though. I have the D.D. version of the HAUNTING. It sounds good. I have heard many others talk about the DTS version being a real demo dilly to listen too.

Kel,

Oh I loved U571 and own the Collectors Edition DVD; the DTS track is stunning-----EVERY creak of the sub creeps through each surround channel. And those depth charges....they made my sub pop more than once. Do yourself a favor and experience the DTS version of The Haunting....the film itself is pretty cheesy especially after watching it a few times and seeing just how bad the acting and story is, but the sound on this DVD....wow....the scenes where Hill House's doors are slamming closed are all sub-bass tremors that will rock your sub(s).

[dph1965]

mentioned more than once. Who was in that one? I remember when it came out, but the story did look a little lame.....

[Lexmark3200]

mentioned more than once. Who was in that one? I remember when it came out, but the story did look a little lame.....

Luke Wilson, Liam Neeson, Catherine Zeta Jones, Lili Taylor.

[kelsci]

Lex; You have the wrong "Wilson" on the film's cast. It was Owen Wilson, Luke's brother. I mean; who else would end up being beheaded in a movie. Owen of course.

[dph1965]

Royal Tennenbaums is one of my favorite movies & for it to be a non-action film, the DD track is great in that movie.
I almost pee myself laughing everytime I see Pagoda stab Royal and say "...you son-of-a-*****..." Not a bad soundtrack either....
Guess this is turning into a movie post!!

[Lexmark3200]

Lex; You have the wrong "Wilson" on the film's cast. It was Owen Wilson, Luke's brother. I mean; who else would end up being beheaded in a movie. Owen of course.

Yes----you are totally right. You know why I said Luke? Wilson's character in the film was named Luke, so thats what I was thinking of! Good catch!