Political Satire or a Crude Attempt at Controversy

[Ajani]

I think it's time to start a new debate, since we've killed the Gas thread topic and all of the off topic debates in that thread... So what do you all think of the cover of the New Yorker?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25673296

Essentially the cover shows a cartoon drawing of Obama and his wife pumping fists as usual... only they are in the whitehouse, Obama is dressed up in a Muslim outfit, Michelle is dressed as a Terrorist and there is a picture of Osama Bin Laden above the fire place (in which an American flag is burning)...

The NY, claims it is an attempt to show how ridiculous some of the criticisms made against Obama are... but others just think it is a crude and offensive way to stir up controversy and sell the magazine...

I fall into the later camp... it justs seems crude and not actually funny (which is what Satire should be)...

[Groundbeef]

I think it's time to start a new debate, since we've killed the Gas thread topic and all of the off topic debates in that thread... So what do you all think of the cover of the New Yorker?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25673296

Essentially the cover shows a cartoon drawing of Obama and his wife pumping fists as usual... only they are in the whitehouse, Obama is dressed up in a Muslim outfit, Michelle is dressed as a Terrorist and there is a picture of Osama Bin Laden above the fire place (in which an American flag is burning)...

The NY, claims it is an attempt to show how ridiculous some of the criticisms made against Obama are... but others just think it is a crude and offensive way to stir up controversy and sell the magazine...

I fall into the later camp... it justs seems crude and not actually funny (which is what Satire should be)...

It was tasteless.

The problem with this type of "satire" is that it feeds into the stupid people that have already bought into the Barack is a Muslim foolishness.

It was irresponsible as far as I am concerned.

[GMichael]

I think it's time to start a new debate, since we've killed the Gas thread topic and all of the off topic debates in that thread... So what do you all think of the cover of the New Yorker?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25673296

Essentially the cover shows a cartoon drawing of Obama and his wife pumping fists as usual... only they are in the whitehouse, Obama is dressed up in a Muslim outfit, Michelle is dressed as a Terrorist and there is a picture of Osama Bin Laden above the fire place (in which an American flag is burning)...

The NY, claims it is an attempt to show how ridiculous some of the criticisms made against Obama are... but others just think it is a crude and offensive way to stir up controversy and sell the magazine...

I fall into the later camp... it justs seems crude and not actually funny (which is what Satire should be)...

Cartoonists have been doing this type of thing since there were cartoonists alive.

Is it crude? Yeah.
Is it funny? Debatable. (depends on what camp you're in)
Is it over the line? Probably.
Is it worse that any ever done in the past? Probably not.
Will it change how some people vote? Maybe. You know how stupid people can be.
Will it make the difference in the election? Give me a break.
Will there be shots at his opponent? Of coarse!
Will they be as bad, rude or over the line? Maybe, maybe not. But they will try.

[Feanor]

I think it's time to start a new debate, since we've killed the Gas thread topic and all of the off topic debates in that thread... So what do you all think of the cover of the New Yorker?
...

The NY, claims it is an attempt to show how ridiculous some of the criticisms made against Obama are... but others just think it is a crude and offensive way to stir up controversy and sell the magazine...

I fall into the later camp... it justs seems crude and not actually funny (which is what Satire should be)...

It is tastless and subject to being misconstrued by stupid people ... although New Yorker probably has fewer stupid readers than most magazines.

[Ajani]

Cartoonists have been doing this type of thing since there were cartoonists alive.

Is it crude? Yeah.
Is it funny? Debatable. (depends on what camp you're in)
Is it over the line? Probably.
Is it worse that any ever done in the past? Probably not.
Will it change how some people vote? Maybe. You know how stupid people can be.
Will it make the difference in the election? Give me a break.
Will there be shots at his opponent? Of coarse!
Will they be as bad, rude or over the line? Maybe, maybe not. But they will try.

Good points... though 1 thing I want to mention is that it is actually not supposed to be a shot at Obama... more a mocking of the people who think those kind of outrageous thoughts about him... but in reality it comes off more like an attempt to knock him than anything else...

Usually cartoonists make it clear who they are shooting at... So if you are tackling Bush, you make a drawing of Bush saying or doing something stupid... This one just seemed to fail on all fronts...

And it also raises the question of whether there is a line that should not be crossed... I don't want there to be a line, since I support freedom of speech... but at the same time I really wonder whether the editor of the mag, should not have stepped in and decided to bench this one...

[Mr Peabody]

I agree with Ajani and GB couldn't have said it any better. If circumstances were different it may have been thought as funny. There are too many false and tasteless emails and internet garbage going around in the same vein as the photo for this to be funny. I'm sure there are many "Right wingers" who are perfectly fine with this and fan the flames while claiming innocense. It is very disappointing to see how many people actually believe this stuff without taking the time to prove or disprove it.

With that being said pollitical figures have always been targets for late night comedy, comedians, cartoons and press. Some how I don't find the cartoon on Comedy Network, "Little Bush" offensive at all. But the photo is, I can't explain why except for it's the mood or mentality of the current times that puts it across the line and I don't believe the NYer's excuse. It's like why should Jessie Jackson apologize for statements he made when he didn't realize the mic was on. You believe, you said it, no apology will change that. Also, in this period of time everything seems to be magnified. Look at McCain's advisor who said the U.S. is not in a resession that it's a mental resession of a country of whiners. Tell that to the Chrysler workers in the plant that just closed, tell it to everyone paying an average of $4.00 a gallon for gas, those who lost there houses, explain to me why the stock market has been in the toilet for a year.

[bobsticks]

It's art, it's meant to incite discussion and passion and possibly even furor...and God forbid that Americans actually engage in any kind of informed discussion about political figures. The sheer outlandishness of the fabrication begs for correction. Is Obama a Taliban sleeper? Certainly not. Is his wife an angry militant? Maybe." Let's talk about it", and maybe through discourse, infromed and uninformed folks will learn a thing or two and form an opinion beyond voting down party lines.

And, yeah, Renoir it ain't but mebbe that's the point.



It's like why should Jessie Jackson apologize for statements he made when he didn't realize the mic was on. You believe, you said it, no apology will change that. Also, in this period of time everything seems to be magnified. .

Jesse isn't art. He has deliberately set himself up as the spokesperson for a movement and, as such, the expectation is that he'll at least behave in a manner that will reflect well on said movement...and in it's best interests. Say what you want about Obama, and I could come up with plenty, but the truth of the matter is that at his worst he'll still probably be better for poor folks, and by extension some minorities, than the alternative.

I mean really, what a dick. Does he think that all black people have such low moral standards that to speak on values is "talking down to them"? Could it be that Obama is identifying with and reaffirming the beliefs of millions of middle class African Americans?
Probably a bit of uncomfortable introspection for Jesse as he's writing his $3000.00 a month child support checks.


Tell that to the Chrysler workers in the plant that just closed,

Ja, and while yer at it ask 'em how well their union protected 'em and acted in their best interests.

[Auricauricle]

In my humble opinion, art is the representation of the imagination. Accessible art is that which is capable of stirring up the viscera or itellect and forces the participant to experience life, thought, moments, etc. in a renewed, possibly different, way.

This being my definition, if this picture stirs something up, if it inspires dialog, self reflection or something deeper, it's doing something important. It reminds me of the guys with the big sticks who would smack you in the back while you were learning to meditate: "Wake up!"

Maybe what many of us need--myself included--is a big, swift, kick in the butt....

[GMichael]

Maybe what many of us need--myself included--is a big, swift, kick in the butt....

Do we have an emoticon for that? :idea:

[Auricauricle]

Probably available, but not here. We're PG rated, apparently....

[JSE]

I chuckled. :yesnod:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Clearly Jesse is jealous of the buzz that Obama has created with his campaign. Jessie certainly didn't get this much attention when he ran, that is for sure.

I want to paint a couple of pictures when I think of this incident. Picture the sun(Obama) rising in the sky, and the moon(Jessie) wanting to remain in the sky, even though night time is over. As the sun shines brighter and brighter, the moon get's dimmer and dimmer. At some point it is so dim it doesn't matter if the moon will not set willingly.

I picture a relay runner, baton in hand crossing the point where he should have done a hand off, but fails to do it and keeps running. Much to his dismay the relay partner he passes up catches him, takes the baton, and runs like the wind leaving him in the dust.

As far as the New Yorker front page....as a New Yorker(doesn't matter that live in Cali, I will always be a New Yorker) I expect nothing less than that tasteless picture from them. Will it sell mags, yep, and that is the desired effect of creating controversy. Why they had to go there, I don't know. What I do know is that this is going to give ammo to everyone who thinks that picture is actually valid.

[Ajani]

Clearly Jesse is jealous of the buzz that Obama has created with his campaign. Jessie certainly didn't get this much attention when he ran, that is for sure.

I want to paint a couple of pictures when I think of this incident. Picture the sun(Obama) rising in the sky, and the moon(Jessie) wanting to remain in the sky, even though night time is over. As the sun shines brighter and brighter, the moon get's dimmer and dimmer. At some point it is so dim it doesn't matter if the moon will not set willingly.

I picture a relay running, baton in hand crossing the point where he should have done a hand off, but fails to do it and keeps running. Much to his dismay the relay partner he passes up catches him, takes the baton, and runs like the wind leaving him in the dust.


I agree with you 100% on this point.... Jessie's time came and went and worse yet, his mindset is stuck in the past, Obama appeals to younger generations because he sees that times have changed and he embraces them... Though we must give Jessie respect for all his work in the past, he is irrelevant today...

[JSE]

Though we must give Jessie respect for all his work in the past.........

You can but not me. I personally think he has done the African American community more harm that good. He has made a living off the problems facing African Americans. He's not about the try and solve those problems because he would be out of a "job" with nobody to listen to him.

[bobsticks]

I agree with you 100% on this point.... Jessie's time came and went and worse yet, his mindset is stuck in the past, Obama appeals to younger generations because he sees that times have changed and he embraces them... Though we must give Jessie respect for all his work in the past, he is irrelevant today...

That's a problem with all social activists that become cause celebrite. Once the poparazzi convince an individual of any stripe that his character is of a certain value independent of action they often behave badly...generally doing more to harm the cause to which they had previously served dutifully.

...in this case, Jesse, is almost a caricature of himself.

[Auricauricle]

If I were to hazard a guess, I would reckon that the New Yorker's readership isn't the sort of mob who would let such an illustration have such an effect, Sir T. Without intending to sound like a snob, my portrait of the average New Yorker reader is one who is informed, intelligent and open for a good laugh (even if the humor is somewhat broad). While I think this illustration is odd, its cryptic intent isn't clear enough for me to give it much thought. There are those souls out there who will view it rather poorly, and I respect their sentiments enough to not take it so lightly either. In any case, we live in a society that prides itself on having the courage enough to let such comments be aired, no matter how insensitive or inane they may be....

Who was it that said, “I disagree with what you say but respect you’re right to say it”?

Sounds about right to me….

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I chuckled. :yesnod:

No you dent, you farted!!!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If I were to hazard a guess, I would reckon that the New Yorker's readership isn't the sort of mob who would let such an illustration have such an effect, Sir T. Without intending to sound like a snob, my portrait of the average New Yorker reader is one who is informed, intelligent and open for a good laugh (even if the humor is somewhat broad). While I think this illustration is odd, its cryptic intent isn't clear enough for me to give it much thought. There are those souls out there who will view it rather poorly, and I respect their sentiments enough to not take it so lightly either. In any case, we live in a society that prides itself on having the courage enough to let such comments be aired, no matter how insensitive or inane they may be....

Who was it that said, “I disagree with what you say but respect you’re right to say it”?

Sounds about right to me….

Generally speaking, you are probably right about the readership. However on an individual basis, I put nothing past anyone.

[Auricauricle]

Generally speaking, you are probably right about the readership. However on an individual basis, I put nothing past anyone.

Sorta like that line about loving humanity and despising individuals...?

Pretty good thing to remember....

[dean_martin]

the thing that bothers me is that I live in an area where more people than not said "I told you so" when the cover was plastered all over the tv screen. These folks weren't about to pick up the mag (wouldn't know where to find it) and read the article.

[Auricauricle]

Why read when you can see the movie? I reckon the PG-13 rated version of The New Yorker will be out soon enough!

[JSE]

No you dent, you farted!!!

Hehe.....that makes me chuckle to. :lol:

[GMichael]

Hehe.....that makes me chuckle to. :lol:

Dude! Please don't fart while wearing that grass skirt. I just saw... well...
nothing I wanted to see.:shocked:

[Auricauricle]

I think there was some air on that g-string!

[bobsticks]

I think there was some air on that g-string!

Prince Leopold couldn't have said it better.


Looks like the "controversy" never became and folks were actually smart enough to put this one where it belonged...behind them.

[Auricauricle]

Mebbe so...mebbe so....

Such things could take one aBach!

[trollgirl]

What they should have run on their cover instead was a photo of Barack Hussein Mohammad Obama's original CANADIAN birth cert. See it on rense.com. Cheers...

Laz