Heard/Saw the Marantz AV8003 processor today

[Mr Peabody]

That's right, the AV8003 processor and MM8003 multichannel power amp have hit the street.

http://us.marantz.com/products/2317.asp

I saw the complete package today, both pieces with the Marantz Blu-ray player BD8002. http://us.marantz.com/Products/2393.asp

They were driving all Martin Logan in-walls with one of their mongo subs. The bad thing about systems like this you can never really compare apples to apples. Even if you brought it home and went through the trouble of setting it up you'd still have to go from memory as to what your old system sounded like. I have to say the system was impressive and far beyond what an A/V receiver could ever do. From what I'm told the ML in-walls aren't the easiest speaker to drive and this MM8003 drove this system without the slightest trouble. We watched a bit of 10,000 BC and then a BR Jazz Legends sampler. The Jazz music was where I was the most impressed. The sound was audiophile like, not at all sounding like coming from an A/V system. From Marcus Miller's bass to Chic Corea, the sound was incredible. So one can assume that both pieces are over achievers. I'm convinced this gear will be a hot item and garner Marantz a new respect in making high quality audio gear. Actually, the first prediction is a bit of a fudge since Marantz has sold most of this gear as soon as it hit the street. I plan to place my order for the AV8003 and it will take a minimum of 3 weeks to get one. The BR player I understand is even more back ordered. You could possibly get lucky and find a dealer who had the money to bring in a larger inventory who might still have something. Once I get one and hook it up in my system I'll be able to tell more about it. I've had an Arcam and my current Primare, so the 8003 will have big shoes to fill.

The BR player has an impressive build quality and the picture was stunning but unfortunately they had nothing there to compare it to. With the build and Realto chip set it will have to still perform something more to warrant $2k, in my book anyway.

As a side note those wanting a Blu-ray movie to show your system off should buy 10,000 BC. My vision isn't good enough to give you a videophile critique but I can tell you on a good system when the Mammoths come your house will be shaking and quaking. On Lossless the bass is like nothing I've heard in a soundtrack to date. I could not find in the movie menu where to set the audio. We had to use the audio button on the remote to toggle through the choices. I thought that a bit odd.

[pixelthis]

That's right, the AV8003 processor and MM8003 multichannel power amp have hit the street.

http://us.marantz.com/products/2317.asp

I saw the complete package today, both pieces with the Marantz Blu-ray player BD8002. http://us.marantz.com/Products/2393.asp

They were driving all Martin Logan in-walls with one of their mongo subs. The bad thing about systems like this you can never really compare apples to apples. Even if you brought it home and went through the trouble of setting it up you'd still have to go from memory as to what your old system sounded like. I have to say the system was impressive and far beyond what an A/V receiver could ever do. From what I'm told the ML in-walls aren't the easiest speaker to drive and this MM8003 drove this system without the slightest trouble. We watched a bit of 10,000 BC and then a BR Jazz Legends sampler. The Jazz music was where I was the most impressed. The sound was audiophile like, not at all sounding like coming from an A/V system. From Marcus Miller's bass to Chic Corea, the sound was incredible. So one can assume that both pieces are over achievers. I'm convinced this gear will be a hot item and garner Marantz a new respect in making high quality audio gear. Actually, the first prediction is a bit of a fudge since Marantz has sold most of this gear as soon as it hit the street. I plan to place my order for the AV8003 and it will take a minimum of 3 weeks to get one. The BR player I understand is even more back ordered. You could possibly get lucky and find a dealer who had the money to bring in a larger inventory who might still have something. Once I get one and hook it up in my system I'll be able to tell more about it. I've had an Arcam and my current Primare, so the 8003 will have big shoes to fill.

The BR player has an impressive build quality and the picture was stunning but unfortunately they had nothing there to compare it to. With the build and Realto chip set it will have to still perform something more to warrant $2k, in my book anyway.

As a side note those wanting a Blu-ray movie to show your system off should buy 10,000 BC. My vision isn't good enough to give you a videophile critique but I can tell you on a good system when the Mammoths come your house will be shaking and quaking. On Lossless the bass is like nothing I've heard in a soundtrack to date. I could not find in the movie menu where to set the audio. We had to use the audio button on the remote to toggle through the choices. I thought that a bit odd.
More and more is going remote only.
I HATE looking at Marantz stuff, because its exactly what I want, and cant afford right now, what I have heard of theirs sounds absoutely amazing.
Time to check out the penny jar...:1:

[Ajani]

That's right, the AV8003 processor and MM8003 multichannel power amp have hit the street.

http://us.marantz.com/products/2317.asp

I saw the complete package today, both pieces with the Marantz Blu-ray player BD8002. http://us.marantz.com/Products/2393.asp

They were driving all Martin Logan in-walls with one of their mongo subs. The bad thing about systems like this you can never really compare apples to apples. Even if you brought it home and went through the trouble of setting it up you'd still have to go from memory as to what your old system sounded like. I have to say the system was impressive and far beyond what an A/V receiver could ever do. From what I'm told the ML in-walls aren't the easiest speaker to drive and this MM8003 drove this system without the slightest trouble. We watched a bit of 10,000 BC and then a BR Jazz Legends sampler. The Jazz music was where I was the most impressed. The sound was audiophile like, not at all sounding like coming from an A/V system. From Marcus Miller's bass to Chic Corea, the sound was incredible. So one can assume that both pieces are over achievers. I'm convinced this gear will be a hot item and garner Marantz a new respect in making high quality audio gear. Actually, the first prediction is a bit of a fudge since Marantz has sold most of this gear as soon as it hit the street. I plan to place my order for the AV8003 and it will take a minimum of 3 weeks to get one. The BR player I understand is even more back ordered. You could possibly get lucky and find a dealer who had the money to bring in a larger inventory who might still have something. Once I get one and hook it up in my system I'll be able to tell more about it. I've had an Arcam and my current Primare, so the 8003 will have big shoes to fill.

The BR player has an impressive build quality and the picture was stunning but unfortunately they had nothing there to compare it to. With the build and Realto chip set it will have to still perform something more to warrant $2k, in my book anyway.

As a side note those wanting a Blu-ray movie to show your system off should buy 10,000 BC. My vision isn't good enough to give you a videophile critique but I can tell you on a good system when the Mammoths come your house will be shaking and quaking. On Lossless the bass is like nothing I've heard in a soundtrack to date. I could not find in the movie menu where to set the audio. We had to use the audio button on the remote to toggle through the choices. I thought that a bit odd.

Glad you enjoyed the Marantz combo... The features are spectacular... it is even a network music player (essentially a Squeezbox).... which is exactly the direction music is going now.... and should help to make it a big hit... Though it is still out of the reach of most mortals ($5K for the combo is not cheap, though knowing Marantz it's probably more than worth it)...

Also, even though Marantz doesn't get nearly enough amp reviews in North America... everytime they get one (that I've read anyway) it's a very favourable review... Marantz is probably my most admired brand, simply because I really like a brand that can cater to all price levels and somehow produce quality products at each price range... Check out the European reviews and you'll see that they get 5 out of 5 star reviews from their $600 Integrated amp all the way up to their $15K pair of monoblocks!!! How many companies can (or even would) produce high quality gear from $600 to $23,000??? Not to mention that they produce by 2 channel and HT.... Pretty impressive I think...

[Mr Peabody]

I know a guy who moved here from the West coast who has a Marantz Reference system and he says it's awesome stuff. I'd like to hear it. Now that you mention it they do have an extremely broad line.

[BadAssJazz]

This is why I love the summer...well, in addition to the scantily clad femmes frolicking around town. The new toys all hit the scene, and it looks like Marantz has finally arrived to stake it's claim.

At least on paper I like everything about the AV8003, except the price tag. Sucks to be on a budget.

In fact, I wonder if the MM8003 is really worth it's $2.5K...wait, let me restate that: I wonder if you can find a better multi-channel amp that outperforms the MM8003 for less.

All petty nitpicking aside, let us know how the things performs when you get that sucker unwrapped.

[pixelthis]

This is why I love the summer...well, in addition to the scantily clad femmes frolicking around town. The new toys all hit the scene, and it looks like Marantz has finally arrived to stake it's claim.

At least on paper I like everything about the AV8003, except the price tag. Sucks to be on a budget.

In fact, I wonder if the MM8003 is really worth it's $2.5K...wait, let me restate that: I wonder if you can find a better multi-channel amp that outperforms the MM8003 for less.

All petty nitpicking aside, let us know how the things performs when you get that sucker unwrapped.


Heres a competitor, there are both integra and onkyo models,
and you can find the Onkyo for 1100 or so, the Integra a little more

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTC-9.8&class=Separates&p=i

[Mr Peabody]

If anyone has followed my threads here on AR they know I am an Onkyo advocate but I have serious doubts the Onkyo/Integra processor or amp is in the same league as this new Marantz stuff.

Some one commented on the price, and it's true that $2.5k for a processor isn't "Average Joe's" A/V budget, but in A/V processors there's not much out there cheaper and to perform well with all the features of the AV8003 is quite a feat.

If anyone turns up reviews on this stuff, post us a link.

[pixelthis]

If anyone has followed my threads here on AR they know I am an Onkyo advocate but I have serious doubts the Onkyo/Integra processor or amp is in the same league as this new Marantz stuff.

Some one commented on the price, and it's true that $2.5k for a processor isn't "Average Joe's" A/V budget, but in A/V processors there's not much out there cheaper and to perform well with all the features of the AV8003 is quite a feat.

If anyone turns up reviews on this stuff, post us a link.


When I first got into this you couldnt get a pre-pro for less than 2500
bucks, sherwood had a cheapie for 999$.
Then Outlaw came out with theirs, a nice one that was outdated almost the day the specs got firmed.
then the Onkyo/integra twins, and now your MARANTZ, which, while pricey, is rather reasonable in the prepro world.
Nice to see some affordable options in this field.
Cant wait for a review:1:

[frenchmon]

If anyone has followed my threads here on AR they know I am an Onkyo advocate but I have serious doubts the Onkyo/Integra processor or amp is in the same league as this new Marantz stuff.

Some one commented on the price, and it's true that $2.5k for a processor isn't "Average Joe's" A/V budget, but in A/V processors there's not much out there cheaper and to perform well with all the features of the AV8003 is quite a feat.

If anyone turns up reviews on this stuff, post us a link.


Here you go Mr.P

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969706


I suggest you start at the back. The first few threads are all about the Marantz before it hit the street. Once it did hit the streets the reviews started from the consumers. A few did compare the two {Marantz/Integra,Onkyo}and most seem to think the Marantz is a bit better.

Kal Rubinson one of the reviewers of stereophile has been watching the thead closely. I asked him if he was going to do a review in his "Music in the Round" articl and he said no. But he did review the Intergra pre/pro and he gave it a very good review.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

fwiw, that thread was long. Some good info though. Glad I stayed with it because I was getting a bit worried with that guy who was having the issues which turned out not to be related to the 8003 itself.

[frenchmon]

fwiw, that thread was long. Some good info though. Glad I stayed with it because I was getting a bit worried with that guy who was having the issues which turned out not to be related to the 8003 itself.


Yeah...for the most part, the guys that are having problems with the 8003 is due to the fact that they are not reading the instructions on how to connect and operate it. Every one is an expert at connecting and operating new gear. But overal it seems this thing is a step up from the Integra.

frenchmon

[pixelthis]

IT WOULD SEEM THAT the Marantz is better than the Integra/Onkyo combo, the question is does that justify the extra price?
And no phono stage ?
GOLLY:1:

[frenchmon]

IT WOULD SEEM THAT the Marantz is better than the Integra/Onkyo combo, the question is does that justify the extra price?
And no phono stage ?
GOLLY:1:


I would say that the thousands who have bought it testify that it was worth it.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

The only way to know if it's justified is to be able to listen to both and, even then, each would have to make up their own mind if it's worth it to them.

One guy went for a Krell to the 8003. I'm sure it's just to get the new features but I'd sure love to hear what he had to say on sound quality difference. Some day down the road I'll have to give a full report.

[frenchmon]

The only way to know if it's justified is to be able to listen to both and, even then, each would have to make up their own mind if it's worth it to them.

One guy went for a Krell to the 8003. I'm sure it's just to get the new features but I'd sure love to hear what he had to say on sound quality difference. Some day down the road I'll have to give a full report.


Well from what I have heard from those who have it, they say the sound is outstanding. Some even says it blows the Integra away.


frenchmon

[Tarheel_]

The only way to know if it's justified is to be able to listen to both and, even then, each would have to make up their own mind if it's worth it to them.

One guy went for a Krell to the 8003. I'm sure it's just to get the new features but I'd sure love to hear what he had to say on sound quality difference. Some day down the road I'll have to give a full report.

Mr. Peabody....when you receive the gear...will you do a review for us? I may be in the market for something similar soon. at least for the processor...probably go another direction and get a used 7 channel amp in the $1500 range.

[Mr Peabody]

I will definitely post some stuff when I get it and hooked up for a bit. I don't know if they are really that hard to get or just my dealer can't get one. They estimate some time in August. I put $500.00 down and my name is on the list.

[Jack in Wilmington]

Hey Mr. P hope you're getting a great price. There are a half a dozen places online that say they have it in stock for $2599. I hate waiting for things. I've been waiting since April for my speaker stands. I've spent my stands money twice already. First on a new turntable, then I saved up again and spent it on a new surge protector for all of my gear.
Is the 8003 going to serve as your pre/pro?

[Mr Peabody]

The 8003 will be taking the place of my Primare. It has big shoes to fill but I will welcome some of the updated features.

[frenchmon]

Hey Mr.Peabody.

I found an Adcom 5400 in the pawnshop for $179.00 It looks great and in very good condition. Is that a good deal, and how do they sound? Thinking about going back to get it.


frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

The 5400 new was about $599.00, 125x2 into 8 ohms. They were a good value new and a great deal for $180.00 in good condition. The 5400 has good bass, I observe a bit of a midbass hump, the highs are extended and may seem bright to some but a lot of that will depend on associated gear as well. Bright but not fatiguing. I drove a pair of Dynaudio Audience 60's with mine so it has some juice. Compared to higher end amps one could criticize but for the price point it was at, not much, if anything could beat it.

[Mr Peabody]

Got my AV8003 today. I unboxed it but won't hook it up until this weekend. I want to look at the manual and have time to deal with it.

Performance will be the real importance but the feel coming out of the box is not so impressive. I'm more used to higher end gear though. My 31.7 is built like a tank. My Krell and CJ gear are all sturdy to the feel. The AV8003 is mostly plastic on front and flimsy metal cabinet like a receiver would have. I hate to diss it before even hooking power to it but it is, what it is. We also have to keep in mind this piece isn't priced like the prior mentioned brands.

The guys at the store said it is easy to set up but as I look at the 1/2 inch thick manual and hoping it's a lot of pictures or larger print or includes multi language........ oh well, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Once I have a feel for the set up and performance I'll write but probably start a separate post.

[frenchmon]

Got my AV8003 today. I unboxed it but won't hook it up until this weekend. I want to look at the manual and have time to deal with it.

Performance will be the real importance but the feel coming out of the box is not so impressive. I'm more used to higher end gear though. My 31.7 is built like a tank. My Krell and CJ gear are all sturdy to the feel. The AV8003 is mostly plastic on front and flimsy metal cabinet like a receiver would have. I hate to diss it before even hooking power to it but it is, what it is. We also have to keep in mind this piece isn't priced like the prior mentioned brands.

The guys at the store said it is easy to set up but as I look at the 1/2 inch thick manual and hoping it's a lot of pictures or larger print or includes multi language........ oh well, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Once I have a feel for the set up and performance I'll write but probably start a separate post.

Some of the guys at the other forum said the same thing about the feel of it and the placstic. But they also said once they got it all hooked up, you forget about the feel and plastic, by the outstanding performance. Lets hope your experience is the same. Some of the guys where having handshaking problems through HDMI. Lets hope you have no such problems.

I suppose Marantz was trying to keep the price down a bit by the plastic and cheap metal. $2500.00 is nice coin.

The plastic is a first for Marantz. The Reference series which is aluminum and copper looks expensive.

Can't wait to see your report.

frenchmon

[Face]

I'm looking to possibly replace my McIntosh MX-119 with the AV8003. My biggest concern is the quality of the DACs for when I use my PC music server.

Looking forward to your impressions,
Mike

[Mr Peabody]

I did a down and dirty manual set up Friday night because I was anxious to see how it sounded. I really hate to post impressions this soon, I still need to meter and there may be some burn in time, I hope it needs some burn in. Also, my only comparison is to the 31.7 which had an original retail of $4k. What I think so far is the AV8003 is probably a competent preamp for the money and it sure is loaded with features, however, at this point, I am not convinced it is a "giant killer". I'm still hopeful though it can sound better. When I auditioned it the sound quality certainly seemed good. It's not that it's bad in my system but it doesn't seem to have the dynamic range of the 31.7 nor does it image as well, like make the speakers disappear. I measured for the speaker set up but the sound still seems more intimate than with the 31.7. The fact that it sounds like a dynamics issue leads me to believe it may indeed need a bit more play time on it.

On a really positive note I noticed both a video and audio improvement from my Dishnet receiver using the HDMI through the AV8003. The video improvement was a total surprise. I was using a HDMI switcher before but I hadn't noticed any degradation when it was inserted. The audio I was hoping for, I think the Dishnet receiver has an inferior optical output. I had two receivers so far and neither sounded very good from optical out. Using the HDMI I had noticeably better rear effects from HD channels like Sci Fi, TNT and A&E. Those were just the ones showing anything at the time that featured any rear info.

One other consideration I'm thinking about too I was using my 31.7 multichannel analog input with a Blu-ray. This was a much better presentation than I ever got using optical or coaxial inputs. So my comparison isn't exactly A/B on the DAC section.

[E-Stat]

Does Marantz really need to provide a panel mounted pictorial diagram as how to use the volume control? That strikes me like needing instructions on how to use a Wet Nap. :)

rw

[frenchmon]

I did a down and dirty manual set up Friday night because I was anxious to see how it sounded. I really hate to post impressions this soon, I still need to meter and there may be some burn in time, I hope it needs some burn in. Also, my only comparison is to the 31.7 which had an original retail of $4k. What I think so far is the AV8003 is probably a competent preamp for the money and it sure is loaded with features, however, at this point, I am not convinced it is a "giant killer". I'm still hopeful though it can sound better. When I auditioned it the sound quality certainly seemed good. It's not that it's bad in my system but it doesn't seem to have the dynamic range of the 31.7 nor does it image as well, like make the speakers disappear. I measured for the speaker set up but the sound still seems more intimate than with the 31.7. The fact that it sounds like a dynamics issue leads me to believe it may indeed need a bit more play time on it.

On a really positive note I noticed both a video and audio improvement from my Dishnet receiver using the HDMI through the AV8003. The video improvement was a total surprise. I was using a HDMI switcher before but I hadn't noticed any degradation when it was inserted. The audio I was hoping for, I think the Dishnet receiver has an inferior optical output. I had two receivers so far and neither sounded very good from optical out. Using the HDMI I had noticeably better rear effects from HD channels like Sci Fi, TNT and A&E. Those were just the ones showing anything at the time that featured any rear info.

One other consideration I'm thinking about too I was using my 31.7 multichannel analog input with a Blu-ray. This was a much better presentation than I ever got using optical or coaxial inputs. So my comparison isn't exactly A/B on the DAC section.

I'd be surprised if it did not need burn in time to sound better. After all, what is Marantz known for in their 50 plus years of history but great sound.

frenchmon

[turbo88888]

I have the AV8003 and the MM8003 for a few weeks now...only just starting to learn its many features!
It does sound great!
Unfortunately I have the samsung BD1000 which does not give me Dolby true HD and DTS masterHD and 7.1 channels
Any recommendations for a good blue ray player??

[Mr Peabody]

What set up were you using before? The AV8003 is taking a while to learn. I'm not sure how many hours the unit might need for breaking in. the frequency response and sound is pretty good but thus far it does not image or envelop my listening room the way my former processor did.

There is supposed to be a new Samsung model out that will retail around $700.00 that I would recommend. It will have all the latest encoding as well as going back to using the Silicon Optix chip for standard DVD upsampling as the BD-P1200 did which got rave reviews for it's DVD playback, and, of course, no fault with the BR playback. To my knowledge this will be the only player under $2k to offer decent standard DVD playback if that's of any importance to you. You could go for the total package and add the BD-8002, what's another $2k :) It, and Denon's top of the line players, are using the Realto chip set.

[turbo88888]

I had a sony DA50ES that suited me fine until HDMI came along! My speaker set up are the mordaunt shorts performance series.
The Marantz certainly have good audio performance but I guess this will improve with time.
I also have a Toshiba XE1 which I bought before the demise of HD DVD and also bought heaps of HD DVDs cheaply! The unit has True HD and DTS master capability and I am very happy with the unit so far.
I guess my next blue ray would be the Panasonic BD50 or the Pioneer LX70 or even the Marantz Blue ray player.
Residing in Australia is not entirely satisfactory as we get the models later then you and also they are more expensive!!

[Mr Peabody]

I don't know, you got the Marantz about the same time. The MM8003 is a nice amp and the combo is hard to beat for the price.

[esmurrell]

I have had my AV8003 MM8003 combo for a couple of weeks now. It replaced an NAD S170i, S250 combo. From my perspective, the Marantz pair had large shoes to fill as I enjoyed the huge soundstage the NAD pair was able to generate. I can say with all honesty that the Marantz pair is up to the task. One of the biggest concerns I have with this processor is that it's the first I've had to read the manual before understanding how to properly operate it. Especially with the remote. In any event, I'm fully up to speed now and couldn't be more pleased. Most of my enjoyment is centered around music and I'm very happy. I listen to many SACD's and they sound glorious through this system. When doing a head to head comparison against the likes of the NAD pair, a Primare combo or the like you will find the audio portion is in the same ballpark but it will more than likely not be a no-brainer. I purchased the set because I wanted access to the HD audio decoding and also got a simplified cabling plan as an added bonus. I'm happy with the overall sound and watching HD movies is a real treat.

System:

AV8003 Pre-processor
MM8003 Multi-channel amp
DV9600 Universal player

Toshiba HD-A35 HDDVD (I know the format is dead but the player works great)
Motorola 2-tuner HD Cable receiver
Jamo speakers
Mitsubishi 55" TV (old style big screen)
RGPC 600 S - Power conditioner (Richard Gray)

Kimber PBJ interconnects

[turbo88888]

What Jamo speakers do you have??

[Mr Peabody]

The AV8003 may be in NAD's league, and it could be there is something I still need to find to tweak or set on the AV8003 but from some one who previously had Primare, the 8003 is NOT in Primare's league, nor is NAD. I have the same set up, amp/speakers, and just swapped out the Primare with the Marantz, so it's a pretty good comparison. The AV8003 is just HT for me though and I like the updated features so I plan to keep it. As I stated before the AV8003 is a great preamp in it's price range but beyond that, it is not a "giant killer". There is a very noticeable gap between the AV8003 and the 31.7 in resolution and imaging. Enough that it would be easy for most to hear the difference. Coming from a Sony the AV8003 I have no doubt is an upgrade. Especially with getting the matching amp. The same could be said for anyone using maybe a Rotel, Adcom or similar gear. It's been a while since I've heard the Anthem AVM but I have my doubts the AV8003 is that good. Actually, I probably would consider taking the AV8003 back if I thought they would let me and not have to lose money, like a restocking fee or something. It really was more of a step back in sound from the Primare than I expected.

To keep things in perspective the Primare 31.7 had a retail of $1,500.00 more than the Marantz and the Marantz has, what, 10 times the features, so it isn't nothing to be ashamed of that the Primare sounds better. It should, people better get something for $4k. To get comparible sound of the Primare with the features of the AV8003 will be out of most of our price ranges for sure.

The 31.7 was a great deal more open and had the capability to make the speakers disappear. The AV8003 has not been able to do this. When I watch movies with sword fights using the Primare the clash really sounds like steel hitting steel with the impact and jolt to it. Through the Marantz swords are merely a sound effect. Things like water sounds had more realism through the Primare. Through the Primare birds and other ambient sounds seem to come from no whare, with the Marantz they are localized to one speaker location or the other. It's interesting on the Marantz it seems to put the music of a sound track slightly behind the dialog or center action which I like. The Primare kept things more even along the sound stage and some times dialog became more difficult to hear in busy scenes. The 31.7 was much more capable of letting you hear the separation between the instruments though, it was almost like watching a movie in the middle of a concert, the music to the sound tracks was almost, too good. A lot of this may not make much sense unless you've heard very good preamps before and have that reference point.

[Face]

I guess I'll have to wait a little bit longer to replace my Mac, thanks for the info all!

[frenchmon]

The AV8003 may be in NAD's league, and it could be there is something I still need to find to tweak or set on the AV8003 but from some one who previously had Primare, the 8003 is NOT in Primare's league, nor is NAD. I have the same set up, amp/speakers, and just swapped out the Primare with the Marantz, so it's a pretty good comparison. The AV8003 is just HT for me though and I like the updated features so I plan to keep it. As I stated before the AV8003 is a great preamp in it's price range but beyond that, it is not a "giant killer". There is a very noticeable gap between the AV8003 and the 31.7 in resolution and imaging. Enough that it would be easy for most to hear the difference. Coming from a Sony the AV8003 I have no doubt is an upgrade. Especially with getting the matching amp. The same could be said for anyone using maybe a Rotel, Adcom or similar gear. It's been a while since I've heard the Anthem AVM but I have my doubts the AV8003 is that good. Actually, I probably would consider taking the AV8003 back if I thought they would let me and not have to lose money, like a restocking fee or something. It really was more of a step back in sound from the Primare than I expected.

To keep things in perspective the Primare 31.7 had a retail of $1,500.00 more than the Marantz and the Marantz has, what, 10 times the features, so it isn't nothing to be ashamed of that the Primare sounds better. It should, people better get something for $4k. To get comparible sound of the Primare with the features of the AV8003 will be out of most of our price ranges for sure.

The 31.7 was a great deal more open and had the capability to make the speakers disappear. The AV8003 has not been able to do this. When I watch movies with sword fights using the Primare the clash really sounds like steel hitting steel with the impact and jolt to it. Through the Marantz swords are merely a sound effect. Things like water sounds had more realism through the Primare. Through the Primare birds and other ambient sounds seem to come from no whare, with the Marantz they are localized to one speaker location or the other. It's interesting on the Marantz it seems to put the music of a sound track slightly behind the dialog or center action which I like. The Primare kept things more even along the sound stage and some times dialog became more difficult to hear in busy scenes. The 31.7 was much more capable of letting you hear the separation between the instruments though, it was almost like watching a movie in the middle of a concert, the music to the sound tracks was almost, too good. A lot of this may not make much sense unless you've heard very good preamps before and have that reference point.


Wow MrPeabody. I've been keeping up with the reviews of this thing on other forums and yours by far is totally different from any I have heard. I've read the reviews of those who have the Anthem and Marantz and they say the Marantz performs better than the Anthem. Your review is just not what others have been saying. Aside from the usually hand-shaking problems others have been complaining about, the only other complaint was that there was no post processing, but other than that, they say this thing is unbelieveable.

Here is a portion of what some are saying.


adidino
Senior Member


Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 402 Quick poll..


Who on this thread went from a higher end prepro such as Krell, Anthem D1/D2, Proceed, Lexicon, etc.. to the Marantz? and how do you feel about it now since most of you, I'm assuming have had it for a while.
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Today, 10:47 AM #1514 | Link
MKtheater
AVS Special Member


Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: central NY
Posts: 2,021 I did. I have owned many higher end processors with the highest being the Meridian 861. I like the Marantz. The best for movies so far.
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frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Frenchmon was there a link to that thread? I can't believe anyone would be happy coming from a Krell or a D1 and going to the Marantz. Of course, there's a guy on here who claims he went from Levinson separates to a Panasonic receiver and preferred the receiver. What do you mean by post processing? That post would be relevant because only those coming from higher end gear to Marantz would have an idea or perspective of the difference. I can't understand why my results are different. The Dyn's are very revealing though and I do tend to be a critical listener. I also post it as I see it, or hear it, for better or worse.

Any idea what most are using for HDMI cable with the AV8003? I'm not using a "high end" name brand and I wonder if that would make a big difference. It was as good as my Tributaries HDMI for video so I didn't think audio would be off either. I may try that to see what happens if anything. There's so much conflicting info out there about HDMI it's hard to know which way to turn. The only way is to try it yourself.

If anyone has any suggestions as to why mine isn't impressing me let me know. I am using all Transparent IC's and speaker connects. I'm using just a 1 meter Belkin HDMI from BR player to preamp and Tributaries from satelite receiver to preamp. The Tributaries is 2 meter to reach the receiver. I set the unit up manually which most prefer to do anyway. I've been waiting for cooler weather to play with the Audyssey so I can turn the air off. The only difference in my set up is the preamp and I'm using HDMI from source to preamp where I was using multichannel analog on the Primare because it didn't provide HDMI.

[Mr Peabody]

As I sit down with my crow sandwich........

First, let me thank everyone who chimed in with their own experience with the AV8003 and Frenchmon for your input. I started this thread after hearing the AV8003 and i thought it did sound very good in the sound room. This coupled with your further input got me to doing some thinking on my system. I was always wondering how the AV8003 could be so far off and my disappointment was giving me grief. So I got busy today and made some calls, tried some things.

As stated above in another post, my set up didn't have much difference from using the Primare, only the connections, up to this point I went through the Marantz I thought pretty good, so it left the connections. I called the store where I bought it and one guy wasn't much help, they're waiting to pick up some training from CEDIA. Talked to another guy about HDMI and he told me there is a difference in the cable quality and offered to loan me one to try. I thought, "what did you expect him to say". The problem was real though and I had nothing to lose. I picked up a Tributaries Series 7 HDMI cable, and borrowed his SPL meter. And away I went.

Guys, no matter what you read, or from who, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN HDMI CABLES. I was not using a $10.00 cable, I had a $40.00 Belkin which said 1.3 compliant. After reading CRAP on the internet about " it's digital either it would work or not" and seeing ridiculous cheap HDMI cables I thought 1.3 and $40.00 would have enough bandwidth. I put the Tributaries in and a Blu-ray disc I watched just last night. I listened to it again, certain scenes before switching cables. The improvement was obvious though, it opened the sound up. I mean most of everything that was making me unhappy went away, the music bloomed out and away from the speakers, the water sounded more natural, the birds and animal sounds were out into the room again, I'm really excited. The Series 7 will cost me a $150.00 and I am happy to take it to them. I actually brought home 2 cables one to go between preamp and BR, the other between pre and TV. I only tried the one between the BR and pre but I already noticed an improvement in picture quality. I can't wait the get the second one in, I expect the video to blow me away. The picture was already a bit sharper with more detail, especially in dark scenes and very bright scenes. Very bright scenes had more color where things were easier to see. I've got high end cables throughout my audio system, I don't know what made me think I could skimp with HDMI.
http://www.hometoys.com/htinews/dec07/interviews/tributaries/perfito.htm

For the very first time I put a meter to my system, any system. I have to admit I was not as close as I thought by ear. My center channel which is sitting lower than my mains needed a 2 dB bump and my rears needed almost that. After adjustment the rears sounded alright during the movie but seemed a bit loud on a HD music video channel. I don't like the rears to be overly loud but I figure the meter don't lie, so it must be either a engineering problem or the station. The sub was too loud but I knew that, I was just waiting to get a meter.

I'm still not ready to take the belt from the Primare and give to the Marantz but the Marantz is now making it a much closer call. More importantly the Marantz is good enough to satisfy, ME, now. After all isn't that the goal :)

In conclusion, anyone who spends the money for HD gear and don't at least try quality cables for themselves is a FOOL because they will never get there money's worth out of that HD equipment. Take it from one who has learned there lesson.

[Edan]

I'm new to these forums but I have been reading this thread for the last few weeks now in anticipation of purchasing the Marantz combo. I have been particularly interesting in following Mr Peabody's feedback, especially after being initially dissapointed with the sound quality. I am happy to hear that a large proportion of the sound quality problems were related to cables. I too have witnessed the transformation that good quality interconnect can provide but have also not been certain as to how this affects HDMI - thanks for this feedback - it is critical to know.

I just received a trial Marantz AV8003 & MM8003. I previously had a Rotel 1068 pre-processor & 1075 amplifier. I am now wanting to make the switch up to HDMI due to HD broadcasts being launched in South Africa a few weeks ago.

Firstly, Mr Peabody, if you can do an Audyssey set up I would highly recommend it, it made a significant difference to sound quality. It will take around 10 minutes (or less if you don't do all six listening positions). I used this purely for EQ settings and then I changed some of my speaker settings such as distance, output levels and size. I found Audyssey incredible for EQ settings but didn't like what it did for the rest.

My first impressions were mixed but it's taken a while to tweak and get right. What truly stunned me is how it brought, what I thought were previously poor quality sound sources, to life; these sources being satellite broadcasts and PS3 MP3 playback. I never ever thought I'd use the PS3 for music, especially using it's optical digital out in the past. MP3 playback thru HDMI and the new combo is now incredible, and SACD playback thru the PS3 is surprisingly good. (I was not able to get mutli-channel SACD playback previously with the Marantz SA15 SACD player as it only supports stereo - a fine player though.)

I was initially expecting more of an improvement with stereo playback but am now happy with it. I think it took a while for my ear to adjust to the additional detail coming thru. It also brings otherwise dull CD recordings to life. (Could have been related to my room acoustics and Auddysey doing it's thing.) I was previously very happy with stereo playback with Rotel equipment and Marantz SACD player but only on a sub-set of disks.

No doubt HD blu-ray sound is excellent; tight and solid. Don't have that many disks to demo but will fix that over time.

If I had to rate the new combo over my previous Rotel gear out of 10:

CD/SACD Playback - Rotel: 8; Marantz: 9.5
Satellite Broadcasts (both stereo and DD5.1) - Rotel: 6; Marantz: 9.5
PS3 MP3 Audio - Rotel: 4; Marantz 9
Blu-Ray - Rotel (only compressed 5.1 available) 6; Marantz 9

One gripe is the remote control, which, while very advanced, does not appear to have direct buttons to change the source. You need to press a sequence of 3 buttons to change the source. (Possibly this can be changed via programmed - I'll work on this in time.) One other grip is that it's not descriptive enough on input streams, e.g. I would like to know what resolution PCM it is receiving.

Mr Peabody, if you do have a chance to set up the Auddysey EQ let us know what you think.

Thanks all for your posts, it's been fascinating to read.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody..
Thanks for your thread! I was somewhat worried that you did not like the Marantz...all because of a HDMI cord! I use the Kordz HDMI cables and they are good.
I would have thought Belkin products are quite respectable and this goes to show.
Have you come to terms with all the features of the AV8003?? I mean the surround sound modes - the mind boggles!

[turbo88888]

Edan
Glad you like your Marantz too. What speakers do u use for ur HT? I think they are important for any sort of decent HT setup.

[Mr Peabody]

Eden, many people who post seem to go back to the manual settings after trying the Audyssey but I definitely plan to try it for myself.

Has anyone tried the THX EQ to see what that is about?

There are still a lot of features I haven't tinkered with yet. I did play with the HD radio. I like the way it scans to the normal station and then to each HD station that belongs to that frequency before going to the next frequency with a station. I was afraid one would have to switch to those HD stations or something. The remote is fairly complex to learn. It would have been nice if Marantz gave a list of button commands like on Windows, like HOME+1 = DVD, HOME + AMP + 007 TUNER. That way we wouldn't have to go back to the manual for things as much. Maybe we will just learn the things we do the most on it though. I'm not sure if I do it right but it works, I only hit two buttons to change source, "home" + what ever number the input is. The sequence is a bit more to set up the tuner but still two to get to it. I feel for those planning to network or dual zone, they get to have even more fun. What would also be cool if manufacturers, especially of complex equipment like the AV8003, would put the instructions on DVD.

[frenchmon]

Hi Mr Peabody.

I'm happy to hear that your system sounds better.::3:

The Integra Pre/Pro has post processing. this is where you have a 5.1 set up but the pre/pro will still process 7.1 sound if the disc is 7.1 Many of the guys where upset that for the price they paid for the Marantz pre/pro, it would not post process.

I think you may benifit by going over to the A/V science forum where this thing is being discussed.

And yes the hand shake with HDMI cables have been discussed. But you got off good, you still had some sound with your old cables...there where a few guys over there who got no sound at all until they spent money on good cables.

One guy had to send his Marantz back to get another one.When he called Marantz, they told him it was the hand shake, but because he had used the same cables in his previous system, he said no and demanded another Marantz. So after the other Marantz came, he had the same problem and got rid of the Marantz, thinking they where crap. So another guy comes along with the same problem, and this same guy tells him its not the cable and that he had two different units that where crap and that he got rid of it. So the new guy goes out and spends good money on differnt cables and got his Marantz up and performing great. Most of the guys can't believe the instruction book that came with this thing. But for the most part, they think this thing is great. Heres the thread where I got that quote. You may want to go over if you got questions.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14557165#post14557165



frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

I think you gave me that link before. Isn't this the one where the link starts before the AV8003 is available and goes until people started buying them and posting reviews and experiences?

I used the Series 7 from preamp to TV today and the picture was amazing. I think my lesson with HDMI is worth another thread in the "cable" forum. From this point on I'm totally sold on using good quality cables.

I also found that my rears were off using the meter. I have a high back sofa and was putting the meter like in front of me, high, but apparently not high enough. I kept thinking the rears are just too loud. So I stood behind the sofa and placed the meter more where my head would be and sure enough, too loud. So in the end they were set closer to where I had them by ear. I don't know if many people notice but the rear volume is critical. Too low, you lose your effect, too loud, throws everything off. What made me use the meter again was putting in the Legends of Jazz BR disc. I kept hearing too much drums and other things in the rear that weren't there before. That sound should be low enough just to create ambience for the most part. I am so shocked that a cable could make such a dramatic difference in both video and audio. I am thrilled with my set up now.

I'm not proud of this but I watched the Scorpion King 2 earlier and the AV8003 even passes the sword test now.

[Edan]

turbo88888: I use B&W XT4 and XTC front-channels and B&W PV1 sub . For rear I have the B&W CCM-80 ceiling mounted speakers. I am however not happy with surround performance (not due to processor but due to room configuration - no space for wall mouted surrounds and ceiling speakers just sound too high).

Familiar with the B&W XT range? Do you think these would do the Marantz equipment justice? I am happy with their performance. In time though, with the additional channels available on the MM8003 I could bi-amp a higher spec'ed speaker.

Mr Peabody: Thanks for the tip on remote; to press the numeric button directly to change source, much easier.

If I may, I would like to ask general advice regarding cabling, specifically related to interconnects between AV8003 and MM8003. I currently have AudioQuest King Cobra RCA interconnects (1m run). Do you think it would be worthwhile upgrading these to balanced interconnects? I'm hearing differing views on the actual impact this will have on sound quality. (Also, if anyone know's the AudioQuest range, would you recommend going for a higher spec-ed cable?)

[Mr Peabody]

I personally think the Audioquest are adequate. I also doubt if there would be any significant difference using XLR's unless the Marantz gear was truely balanced and I don't think it is. Or, it could be beneficial if you had a long distance between amp and preamp. I hate giving this answer but it's the truth, the only way to know if you can improve on the King Cobra is to try a step up to see if a difference and if it's worth the extra expense.

[frenchmon]

I think you gave me that link before. Isn't this the one where the link starts before the AV8003 is available and goes until people started buying them and posting reviews and experiences?

I used the Series 7 from preamp to TV today and the picture was amazing. I think my lesson with HDMI is worth another thread in the "cable" forum. From this point on I'm totally sold on using good quality cables.

I also found that my rears were off using the meter. I have a high back sofa and was putting the meter like in front of me, high, but apparently not high enough. I kept thinking the rears are just too loud. So I stood behind the sofa and placed the meter more where my head would be and sure enough, too loud. So in the end they were set closer to where I had them by ear. I don't know if many people notice but the rear volume is critical. Too low, you lose your effect, too loud, throws everything off. What made me use the meter again was putting in the Legends of Jazz BR disc. I kept hearing too much drums and other things in the rear that weren't there before. That sound should be low enough just to create ambience for the most part. I am so shocked that a cable could make such a dramatic difference in both video and audio. I am thrilled with my set up now.

I'm not proud of this but I watched the Scorpion King 2 earlier and the AV8003 even passes the sword test now.

Hi Mr.Peabody.:)

Yes its the same link. I'm happy that you are having fun with your system. Now that I think about it, your experience with the Marantz seems to be in line with most every one who has owned it. At first they are excited about it when they ordered it, then they are less happy about the performance of it when they get it, then after some tinkering, they are thrilled about. I will keep in mnd what you said about the cables.


frenchmon

[turbo88888]

Edan
Not familiar with the B&W range that you have...but I guess it should sound good if the other models are any indication. I have the Mordaunt Short performance series and they are really good with very nice and clear mids - esp for dialogues.
I personally use Balanced cables to couple the AV and the MM and have no problems with it. The cables are from Kordz and of very high quality www.clink.com.au. I think if everything being equal, balanced cables are the way to go!

[Edan]

Thanks for your input Mr Peabody and turbo8888. My AV installer is swapping out my RCA's for balanced cables at a minimal charge so I might as well go for it. Speaking of which (and I know I should probably post this question in a specific forum), anyone believe in upgrading power cables? Make any tangible difference to sound?

I see the AV8003 firmware can be updated directly via the Internet via the network interface. I'm not sure if this update just affects the networking portion of the AV or if full-on firmware updates can be uploaded in this fashion (e.g. to support new functionality such as Auddysey EQ over bitstream). Anyone have any more info on this and/or previous experience with regard to how actively Marantz keeps their firmware up-to-date?

My AV/MM combo should be arriving this evening – holding thumbs.

[turbo88888]

Edan
I use a power conditioner that gives me a constant voltage output even though the line voltage fluctuates wildly +/- 10%! The Thor PS10
It also has a surge protector and this is the web site for it http://www.thortechnologies.com.au/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=792
I live in Australia and this is an australian product but I guess there may be similar products in your country.

[Mr Peabody]

There is a thread recently started about power cables but in short I've had noticeable improvement when upgrading.

[MoltenLava]

Mr Peabody,

I've read your review with much interest. I have a mch music system that was organically grown from a stereo system. I heard much buzz about Integra 9.8 and Marantz, and thought maybe they are worth a try. Integra seems to be more popular, but my personal bias prefers Marantz. I wonder if you have compared your AV8003 with Integra 9.8 before?

It looks like you have a separate stereo system with high end gears. Have you tried AV8003 as a digital processor end and line stage in your stereo system? I'm very interested in the performance of digital section of AV8003 in an audiophile system.

[Mr Peabody]

I have not mixed the AV8003 with my CJ gear. The way my gear is in the stands and cramped working space I tend to limit moving things around to necessity and burning curiosity.

I have not heard an Integra 9.8. They aren't represented in this area.

The AV8003 goes to a Linn power amp and uses Dynaudio Contour t2.5's. I haven't listened to a lot of music through the system yet but what I've heard has been excellent. Including Blu-ray concert video in Tru-HD. I know I gave the AV8003 a lot of grief until I found the problem and cured it but I am impressed with the sound quality. I'll have to try running some CD's through it and come back with some better impressions. I know it may not help with your choice. I think you'd be happy with the AV8003. It's hard to put into words but the tonal quality is inviting or involving, the overall response is good but what probably stands out to me is how well the midrange is. The mids are natural, no strain, and open. Just using the AV8003's internal DAC the sound is smooth and you will notice no etch, glare or other digital negatives. Now some of this could be system dependent. Of course, what started this thread was hearing the Marantz combo driving all Martin Logan speakers. Other than the Marantz power amp having more attack than my Linn the other generalizations still hold true.

[MoltenLava]

Thanks for the reply. I currently have Linn Unidisk SC as the front end and line stage. I listen to a lot of SACD in addition to redbook CD, and I expect the replacement to do well in both redbook and DSD. Most people who own these processors are theater oriented, so it's hard to compare their impression and put it into the perspective of my expectation. I've been looking for someone with interest in music as much as I did, and then I came across your review. You have a very nice two channel system, and I think I can trust your ears. :) If you have any SACD or DVD Audio, I would love to hear your impression of those, as well as redbook performance against your stereo rig. Thanks again,

[Mr Peabody]

You got me curious so I put a couple CD's in earlier this evening. First, I put in Spies on the Sheffield Labs label. Then Mariah Carey, Diary of Mimi. I used my Samsung BR player for a transport using HDMI PCM into the AV8003. If you've ever heard an Arcam player the sound character was close to that. The sound stage was wide, and had a lot of detail, it may have been my Linn amp but the bottom end could have been more hefty. Overall a very listenable presentation and I preferred it over my prior Primare for music. The music through the AV8003 was effortless, quick and agile but not aggressive. When listening to Mariah Carey, she was center left and the AV8003 did a good job of placing the background singers to the far left as with good CD playback. I'd say separation of detail was a very strong point for the AV8003.

I hate to compare it to my 2-channel system because it's really not apples to apples as they are totally different. I would like to get some long IC's to see how the AV8003 sounds through the MV60's. The most noticeable difference was the CJ gear was fuller with more bottom end but that was a trade off because in comparison the AV8003 dissected things better. Each system seemed to accentuate different parts of the presentation. The AV8003 had a flat frequency response. I noticed this when playing with the T+A, it has 2 output stage filters to choose from, one the manufacturer describes as having a flat frequency response and that is the one the AV8003 sounded closest to. As you'd expect the CJ I preferred overall and came closest to natural tones. The Linn 5125 is perfect for where I need to place it and it does fine for HT, very good midrange, clear, and haven't had a need for power, however, it wouldn't be my first choice for music playback and I suspect with the matching MM8003 or another powerful quality amp the AV8003 would do even better.

When listening to the AV8003 during this time I did not use the sub. I need to go into it and see if that's possible and what other sound fields are available. There's still a lot I have to learn about this baby.

[MoltenLava]

Thanks for the followup. Can you pick a couple of things that you don't like about in the sound? Something that you wish was improved?

[Mr Peabody]

Keep in mind what I hear is the combination of the system not just the preamp. If I had to pick on it, I'd definitely like a heavier bottom end and more growl or grunt. This may be able to be achieved by adding an amp with that nature.

[MoltenLava]

Thanks for the report. Yeah, the lack of bottom end heft could have been caused by impedance mistatch between preamp and the amp, or amp and the speaker. I had a serious problem with impedance mismatch between my Pass X3 and Focal Electra 1037BE. Since then I've gone through a couple other amps, and I happily ended up with Mark Levinson 335. Somehow Linn Unidisk sounded extremely lean with Pass X3. The tonal balance was much better with other amps. I would chalk it up to the rather low impedance curve of the speakers and the ability of the amp to maintain the currents.

The trait that I'm after in my audio system is the transparency. The last thing I want is the veiling of sound that obscures dynamic range and soundstage. It sounds like you didn't notice any of the veiling, and I'm very pleased to hear that you haven't found any in this nature. I have found my Linn front end to provide the best combination of transparency and detail that I heard when it comes to SACD. I'm just content with the reproduction of redbook CD on Unidisk SC. I know it can be done better and I am looking for the equipment for that. It sounds like Marantz AV8003 can be a good contender for my Unidisk SC.

Your review of Marantz AV8003 helped a lot. One thing that still puzzles me is your reaction to the various HDMI cables from the front and to the processor and the audible effect they made in your setup. I'll take your words for it and won't go in that direction any further. :)

[turbo88888]

Hi Molten Lava
Like you, I am a 2 channel freak until the upgrade bug struck me with the HT! I have the Av8003 and MM8003 and have no hesitation in recommending this combination..I guess they are build for each other!
I have not heard the Integra but if you are really serious in good audio also, the marantz is the way to go.

[Mr Peabody]

You could try adding a DAC for redbook and using an analog input. I have a friend who loves his Levinson DAC.

Seeing the type of equipment you use I presume you have heard the benefit in better cables in general, right? There is a lot of hype on the internet about HDMI cables having no difference and I'm not sure how that PC World test was done but it caused a lot of damage. I find it odd that some one can buy a $12.00 HDMI cable that supposedly works as good as one can but I can't buy a simple USB cable that cheap. The improvement I got was significant. I am just happy that I can now enjoy my AV8003 and if it took $150.00 to take it to that level, it was a deal. I haven't done a lot of HDMI comparisons to see if this type of result is across the board. I assumed it was the better cable. Either way one who wants the best out of his HT system should experiment with a couple brands just to make sure one doesn't do better than the other. My thing is if I was a beginner or didn't already have a high end processor as reference I may not have even noticed the problem I was having. I really feel people are too reliant on the internet hype and what ever their sales person gives them and they could possibly be missing the best part of their gear.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody
Just a question regarding the AV8003. Is it normal that one have to turn off players connected via HDMI to restart the process of rebooting the system to get the picture and sound?
When I finish a movie and put in another one, there is problem in starting the picture/sound again in my blue ray machine until I turn it off and on again. This seems a little ***** but I was just wondering if this is a ***** thing with HDMI.?

[Mr Peabody]

That sounds like a HDMI, or should I say HDCP, hand shake issue between your components. Fortunately, I do not have that issue. Which BR player do you have? You might want to check the manufacturer's website of your BR player to see if any firmware updates have been out since you bought it or last updated it. Mine occasionally did that when I first bought it but a firmware update cured the flagging issue.

I browsed this article once I don't know if it will help:
http://www.videsignline.com/howto/198900437

http://bigredball.blogsome.com/2006/04/15/making-and-breaking-hdcp-handshakes/

I was trying to find the article that talks about why sometimes equipment have to be recycled, turned on/off, in order to work again.

Ah, this may be it:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/hdmi1.htm

[turbo88888]

I have the Samsung BDP 1000. This is rather old model now and will be changing to another updated model soon...I was looking at the Panasonic BD 30 ..the 50 is not released in australia as yet...or the samsung 1500. Any suggestions ? Other models? The Marantz is not released here as yet.

[Mr Peabody]

Have you received all the updates for the 1000? I have the Samsung BD-P1200 and after firmware updates, 3 total, it works fine and after adding the AV8003 I have had no issues with hand shakes. Downloading is a pain but Samsung will send you a disc if you call them.

People came down hard on the 1200 because of the issues with it after launch but if you can find one I'd recommend it. Or, their new one that's coming out at around $599.00 USD, I think it's a 2500 or 2550. These both use the Silicon Optics chip for excellent DVD upsampling, if that's of importance to you. The only draw back with the 1200 it has no DTS-MA decoding or bitstream. The newer one I think would. Another piece to keep an eye on is the new Marantz that's coming out with a lower price than the flagship. It's going to be about $749.00 USD. If it keeps the Realto chip set it will also have good upsampling capability. Well, there is another one, Oppo is coming out with a BR player, I don't know anything about it yet but if it performs like their DVD players it could be a contender.

If DVD upsampling is of importance you want to proceed with caution on your next player. Many players like Panasonic and Sony have gone to a single chip for both BR and DVD and DVD upsampling has suffered tremendously. Those mentioned above would be fine and to my knowledge are the only ones that have gone back to providing decent DVD upsampling, I think some of the upper end Denon might as well, look for the Realto chip set. A good place to go to compare features of players is:

www.bluray.com Go under "players", you can click the brand and then the model. I can't remember which link after that, maybe "specifications" but there is a link that gives a total break of everything in the player.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody
As usual, you are a great help and so knowledgeable!
WOuld it matter what chip they have for upscaling of DVDs as the 8003 have built in upscaling decoders??
The marantz seems to be the best...the profile 1.1 seems to be the current profile, what abt profile 2 that seems to be present is some other players and not the marantz?

[Mr Peabody]

Uh, good point, I'm not used to having upscaling in my preamp and the AV8003 has a Realto so....... nevermind. To be honest I haven't paid much attention to the profiles because I personally think PIP and online features while trying to watch a movie is useless. Another good thing about the AV8003 we are set for DTS-MA, we just have to make sure we can get either bitstream or decoded from the player. DTS-MA is one thing to look for on the BR player, if it has it and how it delivers it. I've noticed, surprisingly that a few of the newer players do not have DTS-MA. Unless it has been corrected I believe bitstream DTS-MA leaves out menu sound effects and something else, I forgot what. If it's of interest the DTS website has this info.

[turbo88888]

Mr Peabody,
Thanks again for your helpful comments again.
I think I have a slight problem with my centre channel...my kids tell me it sounds a bit muffled especially the dialogues. They were adamant that it was ok before but lately this has been the case. To me, I think it was the same as before, but then I am older and the hearing is prob not as good as the young ones! When you turn on the Dolby VS, and the centre speaker being switched off the dialogues sound brighter coming from the front speakers. I guess this is the way centre speakers are designed not to sound too bright. Is there a way to overcome this? I have tried increasing the treble on the av8003 and also make the centre speaker louder but no great improvement.

[Mr Peabody]

What are you using for center and mains? If they are the same series and brand you shouldn't have any difference. Any adjustments you make like treble or EQ will effect all speakers, I don't know of any way to tweak just one channel. You might try hooking it up to the wires that go to your left or right speaker to see if it sounds the same. If it's the center speaker you may have a blown tweeter or possibly something in the crossover went bad. Where is the center placed? You might try sitting it out if it's in a cabinet to see if it's the placement of the speaker.

[turbo88888]

I have the Mordant shorts - performance 6 for fronts and performance 5 for centres. THe centre is placed exactly mid point above my projector screen - I will try and experiment and see if this will help. Have you also had any problems with the MM8003 going on protector mode when the loud passages come on in a movie .. ie blinking twice every second. The manual tells me either I have it too loud (I dont think I have this louder then what I had before when I initially installed the system), or it is overheating or the speakers are not impedence matched. I have a cooler fan from Antec under my MM all the time. My MS speakers are 6-8 ohms and I don't think I have any 4 ohm speakers.
Let me know if you have similar problems!

[Mr Peabody]

I do not have the MM8003 I'm just using the preamp for now. I'm sure the amp would require plenty of ventilation though. Is your internal speaker volume much above "0"? If so, you might try taking the internal volume down closer to "0" to see if that helps. This situation would be more of a possible distortion problem than over driving the output though but you never know. In contrast, if the internal volume isn't high enough, slightly above or below "0", the power amp may be working too hard because it isn't receiving enough gain from the preamp. This is just a guess at possibilities but I will ask around for you.

[turbo88888]

thanks Mr P.
I will observe the volume controls and keep an eye on it!

[Mr Peabody]

Did you follow what I was saying? Did you do a manual set up on your system when you got it?

[turbo88888]

Mr P
I was looking into my system tonite and I think I found the answer as to why the centre speaker is muffled! The tweeter in my centre speaker has gone off! I cant hear any high frequencies thru it and this is the cause of it! I am returning this to the distributor and it should be under warranty. I bought it about a year ago! Goes to show things do break down at times. Hopefully I am right.
I did an audessy set up initially and lately did a manual set up hoping to improve the centre speaker sound quality but to no avail. I now know the problem!
I do not usually listen past the O setting and usually it is about -10 to -5, so the output level is not all that high!
I will let u know if it plays up again! Thanks for your interest!

[frenchmon]

turb just so you would know, over at A/Vscience.com there are a bunch of people over there who have the new Marantz pre/pro and discuss it daily. They can be another scource for questions ands answers as well.

frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

Ah, a new to me website.

[turbo88888]

thanks frenchmon...had a look already!

[Edan]

Hi all. Hope all are well! Mr Peabody I know you have been a real advocate of high quality HDMI cables. I've been using the AudioQuest HDMI-X ($95) which is decently spec'ed cable. My AV supplier lent me the HDMI-1 ($175) and I noticed a further improvement, across the full frequency spectrum and one that has made a significant impact on the enjoyment on the music. (I am still to test the HDMI-3 which should be in stock this week.) Just thought I would let you all know - I would highly recommend demo'ing higher spec'ed HDMI cables when you feel like an upgrade.

Incidentally I'm thrilled with the sound of the AV8003 especially after run-in.

[Mr Peabody]

Eden, thanks for sharing your experience.

[turbo88888]

hi
Just a quick question regarding audio - getting Dolby true HD and DTS HD master audio from processors that do not have these decoders but players that do.

Is it best to connect via HDMI (older version ?v 1 but not 1.3a) or via analogue outputs of the HD players that have them and connected to the 7.1 inputs of the amps - a friend of mine has the marantz SR 7001 which does have HDMI inputs (?version).
Would the receiver display the decoded signals ?eg Dolby True HD etc
My own av8003/mm8003 are working great and I recently addd the samsung BDP 1500 which seems a great little player.

[robb01]

Very interesting read, I look forward to hearing it myself

[Mr Peabody]

HDMI would be best IF the receiver will accept and play PCM. When using the unit to decode the HD audio formats, the decoded signal will travel via HDMI in PCM. Just go into the BR player's set up menu and set it "PCM" audio output.

Now, why isn't the multi-channel as good, it's because most BR players lack bass management and many receiver/preamps can't adjust/process the decoded analog signal once received because the analog bypasses all the processing. Also, many BR players have about a 10dB drop in the LFE when using MC analog out. I think some units may be addressing these issues but I can't say for sure or which ones. It looks like the trend is to put the decoding emphasis back in the hands of the receivers/preamps. Crazy how this flip flops. At least it gave people an option until they were ready to upgrade. I believe the new Marantz player at $699.00 includes bass management. It should, it's a bit shy on other features.

And, actually with the limits I discussed, I still liked the MC analog that I used until switching to the AV8003. I just set my sub up to compensate and tweaked the menu of my preamp for the digital in I was using for satelite input. This may be an option for your friend as well if his receiver don't accept PCM.

The 1500 should be bitstreaming though because it has no internal decoding for HD audio formats, it will bitstream them though.

[turbo88888]

hi Mr Peabody
Thanks for your helpful input again...! The marantz SR7001 is fairly recent AV amp and should process PCM and has an HDMI input. I recommended him to get the Sony S550 which has all the in built decoders for Dolby HD and DTS HD master audio.
In fact the Samsung 1500 has in built decoder for Dolby Digital True HD but not DTS HD MA.
How do you know if the sound processed is True HD /HD MA unless it is displayed on the amp itself...like the AV8003 when u play the PCM signal in the receivers. THe SR7001 will prob only show Dolby Digital or DTS when it is actually receiving the HD sound...would that be correct??
Thanks again!

[Mr Peabody]

Are you sure the 1500 has internal decoding for Tru-HD? According to bluray.com it does not. http://www.blu-ray.com/players/players.php?id=23&show=specs I like using their site to compare machines. It is supposed to bitstream the HD audio though.

You'll have to check the manual to see what the display should say. I haven't seen my
AV8003 show the HD audio and I believe some one on the AVS forum mentioned that the AV8003 lacked that ability. You should be able to tell though when the HD audio formats are playing it's a noticeable difference.

I haven't seen the ad yet but I heard the Samsung BD-P2500 was around at $299.00 that would be my player of choice of any of them. I don't think even the Panasonic dmp-55 can touch the 2500 for PQ and features. The 2500 is Netflix streaming capable and features the Silicon Optix video chip.

[turbo88888]

Hi Mr Peabody
My AV8003 shows the audio format in full when the different audio formats are played. Thus on the front window..it says DOLBY DIGITAL TRUE HD and when DTS HD MA is played this is shown with the lesser Dolby digital plus etc also showing when it decodes the signal from the blue ray.
The Samsung BD1500 does have internal decoders for dolby true HD but not DTS HD

http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/detail/spec.do?group=mp3audiovideo&type=blu_rayplayer&subtype=blu_rayplayer&model_cd=BD-P1500/XSA&fullspec=

I think the blueray.com has the wrong info!

[Mr Peabody]

Thanks for the update. Do you use bitstream to the AV8003?

[turbo88888]

yes i do..with.bitstream. I dont think there are any other ways of doing it to get the AV to decode the signals.

[Mr Peabody]

I think that's why I haven't noticed it or paid attention. At first I was using PCM because some of my BR discs are "uncompressed PCM". I recently switched to bitstream but haven't checked the display. I have some movies for the holiday I'll have to make a point of looking.