Turntable addition....

[jrhymeammo]

Direct freaking drive turntable, Technics SL-1200 mk2.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/SL-1200_mk2.jpg

My curiousity for this deck grew more and more everytime DD vs BD discussion comes up. Yet, I have not heard anyone commenting on this with a Low Output Moving Coil cartridge. For that, I just had to try it out for myself as usual....
Since I just picked up a brand new Denon DL-301mk2, which I'm very familiar with, I decided to give it a shot with this ever controvercial TT.

I've only played about 8 LP with his deck, so I won't be making strong statements, but....

This thing is DEAD QUITE and as W&F spec shows, speed accuracy is superb.
I wish I could compare this unit with some of the exotic TT's like the ones Bernd
has, but I cannot only compare with my Pro-Ject Xpress w/ Speedbox mk2.

This turntable just makes sense. What is the most important/basic thing a TT must do? All TTs must play with a steady speed at correct speed. I'm not going to get into stylus drag. Again, this unit holds speed unlike anything I've ever tried and heard.
With this TT, my LP seem to play alot smoother and more seamless. What would be a correct audio term for this? PRAT? I'm not sure if PRAT can be used when describing a TT, but with its steady speed, Pace and Rhythm walks all over my Belt Drive..

One of the thing owners and observers always complain about is its arm.
I cannot really comment on its arm yet, but it's VTA adjuster is the most amazing thing I've ever played with. It feels very solid and is VERY precise. One thing though, music just flows thru my speakers. It's Anti-Skate mechanism is repeatable and works like how every TT should. My Pro-Ject carbon fibre arm is limited to 3 positions.
With Technics' arm, I can use it's anti-skate to bring center image to...well a dead center.

Where are some of LP I've played:
*Piano Music of Chopin Vol.1-3, London/ffrr
*Beethoven Complee Music for Wing Band, London/ffrr
*Wood Brothers - Loaded
*Joe Puma - Shining Hour
*Iron and Wine - Shepards....
*Jedi Mind Trick - Servants in Heaven, Kings in Hell
*YES - Close to the Edge

Here is what I can tell you, Bass was solid, highs were free of shimmering effects.
Midrange? Hmmm..... I have not noticed either improvement nor obvisous faults.

At this moment, I'm really tempted to get a new deck from KAB with some mods, and install a Rega arm to this unit. They are that good! Why change something I'm already enjoying? I hate this hobby......

Peace,
JRA

[basite]

CONGRATS!!

& crap, now you've got me interested to :D

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[jrhymeammo]

You may want to consider SL-1200 as a strong contender for under $1K.
Maybe not a mk2, but mk5 or even 6 that seems to be around somewhere....

JRA

[trollgirl]

The photo reminds me of my SL-1500 from the late 1970's. The arm was on the heavy side, and if yours is similar, from what I have heard, it should be good for an MC cart. Be happy your speed is so steady - on my 1500, it cogged from the start and only got worse with time. Maybe Technics has got the problem nailed down. I got rid of the 1500, and have gone thru a gob of TT's since, but not one of them has completely satisfied me...

Laz

[jrhymeammo]

SL-1200 has been around since 1979, the year I was born. OUTDATED technology, go figure. Go wild with it ema'

Hey BrandonH, if you are reading this, could please tell me abou Sumiko Headshell and it's Azimuth adjuster?

I called KAB, but they seem to be on a vacation. MK5 w/ Power Supply and Cardas wire & Terminal Box looks interesting.

[BRANDONH]

Direct freaking drive turntable, Technics SL-1200 mk2.

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/SL-1200_mk2.jpg

My curiousity for this deck grew more and more everytime DD vs BD discussion comes up. Yet, I have not heard anyone commenting on this with a Low Output Moving Coil cartridge. For that, I just had to try it out for myself as usual....
Since I just picked up a brand new Denon DL-301mk2, which I'm very familiar with, I decided to give it a shot with this ever controvercial TT.

I've only played about 8 LP with his deck, so I won't be making strong statements, but....

This thing is DEAD QUITE and as W&F spec shows, speed accuracy is superb.
I wish I could compare this unit with some of the exotic TT's like the ones Bernd
has, but I cannot only compare with my Pro-Ject Xpress w/ Speedbox mk2.

This turntable just makes sense. What is the most important/basic thing a TT must do? All TTs must play with a steady speed at correct speed. I'm not going to get into stylus drag. Again, this unit holds speed unlike anything I've ever tried and heard.
With this TT, my LP seem to play alot smoother and more seamless. What would be a correct audio term for this? PRAT? I'm not sure if PRAT can be used when describing a TT, but with its steady speed, Pace and Rhythm walks all over my Belt Drive..

One of the thing owners and observers always complain about is its arm.
I cannot really comment on its arm yet, but it's VTA adjuster is the most amazing thing I've ever played with. It feels very solid and is VERY precise. One thing though, music just flows thru my speakers. It's Anti-Skate mechanism is repeatable and works like how every TT should. My Pro-Ject carbon fibre arm is limited to 3 positions.
With Technics' arm, I can use it's anti-skate to bring center image to...well a dead center.

Where are some of LP I've played:
*Piano Music of Chopin Vol.1-3, London/ffrr
*Beethoven Complee Music for Wing Band, London/ffrr
*Wood Brothers - Loaded
*Joe Puma - Shining Hour
*Iron and Wine - Shepards....
*Jedi Mind Trick - Servants in Heaven, Kings in Hell
*YES - Close to the Edge

Here is what I can tell you, Bass was solid, highs were free of shimmering effects.
Midrange? Hmmm..... I have not noticed either improvement nor obvisous faults.

At this moment, I'm really tempted to get a new deck from KAB with some mods, and install a Rega arm to this unit. They are that good! Why change something I'm already enjoying? I hate this hobby......

Peace,
JRA
congrats and enjoy you now own one of the best built turntables in the world.
PS brings me back to an old thread I think you should click: http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=23843

[BRANDONH]

SL-1200 has been around since 1979, the year I was born. OUTDATED technology, go figure. Go wild with it ema'

Hey BrandonH, if you are reading this, could please tell me abou Sumiko Headshell and it's Azimuth adjuster?

I called KAB, but they seem to be on a vacation. MK5 w/ Power Supply and Cardas wire & Terminal Box looks interesting.

I almost missed this post...
On a rare occasion I'll drop in.
For some reason I was thinking about this site and what do you know you bought a 1200. :3:
I still love mine and have never grown tired if it.
I have Supertramp "Crime of the century" on the way, should be here tomorrow.
The link I posted just will lead you back yo the old thread but it is a LP Gear Zupreme™ headshell comparable to the Sumiko.
That's a sweet cart you got, how many hours do you have on it?
Mine took like forever to break-in but it still ceases to amaze me every time I play it.
I just luv MC's

[jrhymeammo]

AH!

I knew you were still snooping around. Great seeing you.

Thanks for the info. That headshell looks like its better built than a Sumiko.

Here is a link to Carbon Fibre Headshell. A bit pricy at around $120, but very cool.
http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/i/cat_1045_140_6522645_6522963/73913935.html

I somehow forgot that you were using AT OC9II. For some reason I thought you were still a snap-on DJ cart by Ortofon.
I have about 15-20 hours on my DL so far. I'm still breaking in a bit, but I should be ready to go in about 20 to 30 more hours.

THIS THING IS BUILT LIKE A TANK!!

JRA

[E-Stat]

Direct freaking drive turntable, Technics SL-1200 mk2.
Great table. Enjoy. Back in the 70s, I had a SL-110a.


With Technics' arm, I can use it's anti-skate to bring center image to...well a dead center.
Speaking of which, is it just me or does the cartridge body look skewed in the headshell? It almost appears that the front of the cartridge body is not parallel with the shell.

rw

[jrhymeammo]

Speaking of which, is it just me or does the cartridge body look skewed in the headshell? It almost appears that the front of the cartridge body is not parallel with the shell.

rw

Hey E-Stat,

This is exactly what I was going to discuss, but was going to wait until I got a replacement head shell. I'm not sure if a stock Headshell is defective or just how it's designed. But yes, you are absolutely right, My cartridge is skewed to my headshell.
It took me about 30 minutes to install my cartridge because it just didnt feel right.

I taped 2 nails on both sides to check with my protractor grids.(DL-301 doent have flat front body). This method MUST be used by every TT owners!

Besides that, this is one great sounding deck.

JRA

[jrhymeammo]

Kinda like this, except I use very thin nails.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpeg/schon_pencil.jpg

http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpeg/schon_step1.jpg


I use it with my Protractor, instead of the Schon grids.
*Be sure to align your stylus/cantilever instead of cartridge body But if you have a cart with straight cantilever it's good enough....

JRA

[BRANDONH]

so how are you liking the technics?

[jrhymeammo]

I'm loving it like a McRib samitch!!
Just placed an order for Zupreme headshell.

I will be placing an order for a KAB unit as soon as Kevin gets one in. How do you please your 1210M5G? I'm trying to decide between M5G or M5SE and can't decide between the two(just for aethetix purpose only).

How glossy if your TT?
Thanks

[BRANDONH]

I'm loving it like a McRib samitch!!
Just placed an order for Zupreme headshell.

I will be placing an order for a KAB unit as soon as Kevin gets one in. How do you please your 1210M5G? I'm trying to decide between M5G or M5SE and can't decide between the two(just for aethetix purpose only).

How glossy if your TT?
Thanks

Remember that headshell is heavy and will require the auxiliary counter weight
and you will need to modify the overhang gauge...
I know you use a protractor I have a couple but found the supplied gauge to be best suited for this arm try both I did.
Its glossy (not piano high gloss) but glossy on the top portion the bottom is just heavy black rubber.
M5G also has hi-fi wiring where the MK5 does not.
M5G has an upgraded tone arm the MK5 does not
the additional 16% pitch is something I never need but its there.
it also has an adjustment in case someone kicks the stand so it wont skip...I don't use it and it has no audiophile uses either but if you live on pier & beam it could be handy.
I have one of these and really like it KAB USA Record Clamp $29.00

It is one fine table I plan to be buried with it lol

The Blue LED is really cool looking.

PS when you do order the table from Kevin get some bearing oil too.

[jrhymeammo]

Thanks for the info, Brandon.

I hope to be spinning LP with a same deck you got, but looks like Kevin is have a difficult time procuring SL-12XXs. He's out of stock on other parts as well.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks

[JohnMichael]

When I use the Mo Fi Geodisc with the Baerwald alignment points the cartridge is not parallel with the headshell of the Rega. I have found this with many s shaped tonearms. That is why I prefer the Geodisc. Trying to make the cartridge parallel with the headshell will sometimes not allow you to achieve proper alignment. You sight with the tonearm pivot and set overhang using the dimple on the grid. Then you twist the cartridge to align with the grid. It is a one step process and the results are accurate. The pencil lead taped to the cartridge helps assure a proper set-up. The Geodisc will work with both of your turntables. It is $49 and will work with any table.

[jrhymeammo]

I know man. I think it's about time I buy my own. I've always borrowed it from my previous dealer, but that is no longer an option.
But I've found this protractor to work fine for my Technics.
http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge...tractors.shtml (http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml)

Cutting a hole is probably the hardest part, but I trust cutting out a triangle out with a Razor is fairly accurate. Kinda like this:

http://www.gocek.org/christiansymbols/images/cirtrcrs.gif

[BRANDONH]

Thanks for the info, Brandon.

I hope to be spinning LP with a same deck you got, but looks like Kevin is have a difficult time procuring SL-12XXs. He's out of stock on other parts as well.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks
I really like Kevin but it you don't want to wait...Pus I think Kevin is an authorized dealer so the warranty would not be effected.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Technics-SL-1210Mk5-TurnTable_W0QQitemZ290242807149QQcategoryZ3283QQcm dZViewItem

[SlumpBuster]

A Big Mac is not the best burger. Nor is Bud one of the best beers. Both are very, very popular though. I think it is nice when someone finds out/realizes that the 1200 and its progeny are some of the finest and most popular decks ever made. Its unusual when best and popular go hand in hand. They're like the Corvette of decks. They're not esoteric, you think you know them, then you take it out for a spin and it's like "Damn!"

[jrhymeammo]

Ah yes. I agree with you. And yes, but not really yet still very true. Right?

JRA

[BRANDONH]

Thanks for the info, Brandon.

I hope to be spinning LP with a same deck you got, but looks like Kevin is have a difficult time procuring SL-12XXs. He's out of stock on other parts as well.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks

When does Kevin expect to have the table in?
Oh and scratch that link I posted on ebay its the wrong table.

On another note...
Last Friday I decided to mess around with the down force, I check it about once every month or so but decided to lightened the load just for fun.
It was at 1.50, cart recommends 1.25-1.75 so I decided to try it at 1.26.
I remember trying it at 1.25 when I first attached the Audio Technica.
But I ended up at 1.50, if memory serves it did not sound correct at 1.25.
So this time I tried 1.26 and now it sounds amazing!
The mids are ever so sweat and warm Whoa
attack and decay especially decay is much better
and I would have thought that the bass would shallow but it did not it became more pronounced and had a lot faster punch and deep low down depth. (go figure)

So now its like having a new cartridge again I mean this was a huge improvement I am hearing even more details in those groves, that again I never know were there where before it was pretty darn good as well.
So I Wanda...
Is it because the cart is now fully broke in that I was able to now lighten the down force?
I do know this MC took a really long time to break unlike any MM I have.
just something to mull over.

[jrhymeammo]

End of this July. He's out of Cardas RCA connectors and external power supply.
I'm thinking about going with a black SL-12XX mk2 now due to other obligation. But it's only another $150, so I might as well go with what I really want.

According to Kevin, tonearm on mk2 and M5GSE is exactly the same, except for its finish and wiring. But you gotta love its glossy finish and blue lights.
As for cartridge break-in, it's still a bit of mystery to me. Perhaps AT's cantilever is able to respond more freely to LP surface. Man my curiousity for OC9mk2 keeps growing bigger and bigger. You gotta stop this man, I'm trying to get another TT.....:ihih:

JRA

[BRANDONH]

End of this July. He's out of Cardas RCA connectors and external power supply.
I'm thinking about going with a black SL-12XX mk2 now due to other obligation. But it's only another $150, so I might as well go with what I really want.

According to Kevin, tonearm on mk2 and M5GSE is exactly the same, except for its finish and wiring. But you gotta love its glossy finish and blue lights.
As for cartridge break-in, it's still a bit of mystery to me. Perhaps AT's cantilever is able to respond more freely to LP surface. Man my curiousity for OC9mk2 keeps growing bigger and bigger. You gotta stop this man, I'm trying to get another TT.....:ihih:

JRA

Yeah I think you will like the M5G the upgraded wiring is a plus.
IMO its worth the additional $$$ and the wait.

The OC9 was actually personally recommended to me by Robert Pincus who until recently worked for Cisco Music (they decided to get out of the vinyl business a real shame) but he is also a recording master and knows a whole lot about remastering and mastering, he had a big hand in remastering of Aja and American Woman to name a couple he gave this cart a high praises and said it is was one of those overlooked jewels because it does not cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars for this cart I 'm glad I took his word for it.
and he also said it would mate with the Technics very well.
The words he said "it works magic" if a recording master say that well...
Ok I'll quit now, sorry I still get excited over this cart even after all this time.

[O'Shag]

Cool Hiro. As Bert says, Keep em spinning.
Cheers mate hope all is well
-

[jrhymeammo]

Thanks shaggy,

I've received my Zupreme headshell. Unlike Brandon, I haven't noticed any noise reduction. But this for certain, bass has improved dramatically. Since my speakers are 2 way monitor with 7' woofers, I havent noticed any deeper bass, but music has more weight and sounds very fast/crisp.

Great little headshell.

JRA

[JohnMichael]

Thanks shaggy,

I've received my Zupreme headshell. Unlike Brandon, I haven't noticed any noise reduction. But this for certain, bass has improved dramatically. Since my speakers are 2 way monitor with 7' woofers, I havent noticed any deeper bass, but music has more weight and sounds very fast/crisp.

Great little headshell.

JRA




Nothing better than a good tweak.

[jrhymeammo]

Ah, nothing like sweet music after a hard day.

I'm pretty sure I'll be getting a mk2 with mods. I really dont need 6grams of anti-skate, and I'll probably be able to make finer adjustment with offered 3g.

NP: Calexico - The Black Lights.
Great album!

[BRANDONH]

Thanks shaggy,

I've received my Zupreme headshell. Unlike Brandon, I haven't noticed any noise reduction. But this for certain, bass has improved dramatically.

Great little headshell.

JRA
Interesting maybe it depends on the cart.
The surface noise reduction it what I noticed most.

But also the factory POS head shell I had before was not exactly square to the record surface either..another thing I like about the Zupreme that too can be adjusted where the Technics is fixed.

at least there was some improvement on your system I guess it just depends.
I would have really hated myself if there was none.

[jrhymeammo]

Well, a correct/proper VTA helps reduce surface noise in my case, and this tonearm mount allows that on a fly. I just love it.
I couldn't get a solid answer on the web, but do you know a maximum cart weight this tonearm can handle with Zupreme?

JRA

[BRANDONH]

Well, a correct/proper VTA helps reduce surface noise in my case, and this tonearm mount allows that on a fly. I just love it.
I couldn't get a solid answer on the web, but do you know a maximum cart weight this tonearm can handle with Zupreme?

JRA
its hard to say with this head shell I had to use the Auxiliary weight that screws in at the counterweight end of the tonearm.
manual states:
including factory head shell weight 7.5 g
3.5-13 g without auxiliary weight
9.5-13 g with auxiliary weight
You really need to use the auxiliary weight with the Zupreme.
If you no longer have it Keven stocks them.
but it your getting a new Table soon from him it should come with the new table you may want to confirm that with him though.

[jrhymeammo]

SL-1200mk2
Fluid Damper
PS-1200
Cardas rewire with RCA
Strobe Disabler

Could this be the best $1K TT ever? I shall find out.

What's great about this is that I still have my SL-1200 mk2 so I can compare it's sound side by side. Also, I can always disable Fluid Damper, PS-1200 and Strobe Disabler so I can find out if those mods were actually worth it.

Hope to be spinning with a new deck before end of August.

JRA

[BRANDONH]

SL-1200mk2
Fluid Damper
PS-1200
Cardas rewire with RCA
Strobe Disabler

Could this be the best $1K TT ever? I shall find out.

What's great about this is that I still have my SL-1200 mk2 so I can compare it's sound side by side. Also, I can always disable Fluid Damper, PS-1200 and Strobe Disabler so I can find out if those mods were actually worth it.

Hope to be spinning with a new deck before end of August.

JRA
way way cool dude :cool:
double snaps lol

[emaidel]

I'm not going to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of the Technics SL-1200, nor do I mean any disrespect to the posters on this thread: it's a good turntable that's been around for decades, and will likely outlast its owner due to the high level of quality of its manufacturing. I do however, have serious misgivings about the claims from KABusa on a number of items, especially the cartridges he claims to be "KAB exclusives," and passes off as "audiophile" products.

Not that long ago, he took the Stanton Groovemaster cartridge body and placed a severely butchered Pickering XUV-4500Q replacement stylus in it, and callled it an "Audiophile Exclusive." The Groovemaster (and I know this , as I was working for Stanton at the time it was developed) is a plug-in DJ cartridge that was designed to compete with the Blue DJ plug-in then offered from Ortofon, both of which plugged into the Technics SL-1200, and other "universal" tonearms, as they were called. The Groovemaster had a deliberatedly pumped up bass response, as this was a major selling feature for DJ's, but was totally wrong for an audio purist.

Since the Groovemaster used a moving magnet stylus assembly (albeit, a stiff, and far more rugged version than on any of the company's consumer, or "Hi-Fi" models), and the Pickering XUV-4500Q (as well as plenty of other models from either Pickering or Stanton) was also a moving magnet design, its stylus would work in the Groovemaster body, though, due to its physical design, wouldn't fit too easily. The audible results also would be far from anything either Pickering or Stanton engineers ever wanted in the first place.

Since all the consumer models had (and still have) large, plastic "handles" on the stylus assembly (to allow the consumer to hold onto those assemblies for insertion and removal), that prohibited their insertion into the Groovemaster body, KAB quite literally butchered the assembly by removing the handle entirely, and then splaying apart the tip of the metal tube that goes into the cartridge body so that it wouldn't just fall completely inside. This allowed for a great degree of error, in that it could easily twist - something the plastic handles prohibited from happening..

As there are no more styli availalble for the 4500Q, KAB has now made another "exclusve" model for gullible customers: it consists of a Stanton 890 body, and a Pickering stylus assembly (handle included) of undetermined origin, or model number. It could be either a genuine, factory original, or a knockoff. It's impossible to tell from the picture on the KAB website whether or not this stylus assembly once had the "Dustamatic Brush," which would give a better indication as to its origin (the stylus assembly for the XSV-3000 had a brush, and would work quite well in the 890 body, but that combination would basically be a "run-of-the-mill" XSV-3000 when all is said and done, and not a "KAB Audiophile Exclusive."

KAB has also made the claim that the Technics SL-1200 "has no peer." I think that's a bit of a stretch, as there are many, many far better turntables out there, and even Technics themselves wouldn't claim their 1200 to be the "best ever." I love the turntable I own (the Dual CS-5000), but I'd never dare to say it "has no peer."

Everyone in this business/hobby is free to have his, or her, own opinion about anything, but when a retailer makes blatantly false claims about products he's selling, everything else he says then is subject to question.

Just wanted to illustrate a bit of truth.

[E-Stat]

KAB has also made the claim that the Technics SL-1200 "has no peer." I think that's a bit of a stretch, as there are many, many far better turntables out there, and even Technics themselves wouldn't claim their 1200 to be the "best ever."
The SP-10 was somewhat better as was the SL-110 I owned back in the 70s. Great tables, but as compared with the best available today? Not a very objective perspective.

rw

ps: I get a chance to hear this puppy (http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/CAstatement.html) in a couple of weeks. A reviewer friend has it for a while. Geez, the thing weighs more than my motorcycle. :)

[basite]

ps: I get a chance to hear this puppy (http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/CAstatement.html) in a couple of weeks. A reviewer friend has it for a while. Geez, the thing weighs more than my motorcycle. :)


wow,

let us know how you like it...

I wonder how it compares to a Transrotor Artus, or to a Gravita...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[emaidel]

ps: I get a chance to hear this puppy (http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/CAstatement.html) in a couple of weeks. A reviewer friend has it for a while. Geez, the thing weighs more than my motorcycle. :)

Isn't the price tag on that "puppy" a mere $150,000? It better sound good!

[JohnMichael]

E-Stat I look forward to reading your impresions of the turntable. Should be fantastic. Let me see if I start saving...........

[jrhymeammo]

I "has no peer."

That's statement no manufacturers should ever make, but in a $1K category? I hope to find out very soon. I'm very impressed with a stock unit. If it's going to improve that it already does, then I'll probably keep it for more than a year. Now that's something.

Hey 'Stat, be sure to keep us posted with your experience and its associated gear.

JRA

[emaidel]

That's statement no manufacturers should ever make JRA


Actually, it was KAB who made the statement, and not Technics. My initial posting on this thread was to take issue with some of the marketing ploys used by KAB, especially his use of Stanton DJ cartridges and mangled Pickering replacement styli, and calling the end product an "audiophile exclusive." Such nonsense, as well as his claim that the Technics SL-1200 "has no peer" has brought, at least to me, much of his marketing into serious question.

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Ema'

I imagine you know ALOT about Marketing, but since audio is a very subjective hobby, would it be wrong for a manufacturer/reseller to make a claim such as "Has no Peer"?

BOSE, Solid State, and Digital gear "Has No Peer". Even I can't argue with that.

[emaidel]

Hey Ema'

I imagine you know ALOT about Marketing, but since audio is a very subjective hobby, would it be wrong for a manufacturer/reseller to make a claim such as "Has no Peer"?

BOSE, Solid State, and Digital gear "Has No Peer". Even I can't argue with that.

I think it is wrong, though it's also a matter of symantics. Stating, "Has no equal," might be a better piece of advertising hyperbole. Even those who hate Bose (which is just about everyone here at AR) will agree that Bose may have no "equal" and are quite satisfied that it doesn't - who needs more overpriced, overmarketed stuff like most Bose products anyway?

On the other hand, to state that Bose (or anyone else) has no "peer" is to make the claim that it is the best of its kind, and that's just not so.

[E-Stat]

Hey 'Stat, be sure to keep us posted with your experience and its associated gear.
I will. Fortunately, I have a bit more time this trip - three full days. I think he has the Goldfinger on the table with an ASR phono pre. Line stage is a C-J ARTIII if I recall driving a pair of VTL Siegfrieds into Scaena line arrays. Digital source is an EMM Labs CDSDse. First time I will be auditioning the Nordost Odins. Should be interesting!

rw

[musicoverall]

I will. Fortunately, I have a bit more time this trip - three full days. I think he has the Goldfinger on the table with an ASR phono pre. Line stage is a C-J ARTIII if I recall driving a pair of VTL Siegfrieds into Scaena line arrays. Digital source is an EMM Labs CDSDse. First time I will be auditioning the Nordost Odins. Should be interesting!

rw

...would go to audition a turntable/cartridge combo this expensive and comment about the cables! :D

Actually, I'd be curious how they stack up against the Valhallas.

[emaidel]

I think he has the Goldfinger on the table with an ASR phono pre. Line stage is a C-J ARTIII if I recall driving a pair of VTL Siegfrieds into Scaena line arrays. Digital source is an EMM Labs CDSDse. First time I will be auditioning the Nordost Odins.

rw

Man, do I need to get out more! I have NO idea what you've said here, but I guess it must be all good stuff.

[BRANDONH]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary
Main Entry: peer
Pronunciation: \ˈpir\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French per, from per, adjective, equal, from Latin par
Date: 13th century

1: one that is of equal standing with another : equal; especially : one belonging to the same societal group especially based on age, grade, or status
2 archaic : companion
3a: a member of one of the five ranks (as duke, marquess, earl, viscount, or baron) of the British peerage
b: noble 1
— peer adjective

[E-Stat]

1: one that is of equal standing with another : equal;
Exactly. It is most certainly NOT in equal standing with a host of other turntables, not to mention a host of other tonearms. When I had the slightly fancier SL-110a back in the 70s, I used different arms with it.

Don't get me wrong - its a nice, reliable unit. So is a Honda Accord. Neither, however, represent the current SOTA when it comes to performance.

rw

edit: Here's (http://www.aca.gr/turntable.htm) a link to a pretty comprehensive list of turntables. There's a pic of the Clearaudio Reference I will be hearing in there.

[jrhymeammo]

That's where I hope Fluid Damper will improve its tracking.
Arm any arms should, Technics' arm tracks fairly well. I shall see if it will allow music to flow more freely and seamless.

Will report with experience, and not assumption. I hope to have positive experience.

JRA

[E-Stat]

Man, do I need to get out more! I have NO idea what you've said here, but I guess it must be all good stuff.
Good? Is the pope Catholic? Here are some references to illuminate:

Statement turntable / Goldfinger cartridge (http://clearaudio.de/eng/lw_statement.html)

Darn frames don't allow me to link directly. Click on the Union Jack center left for the English version. From products, choose turntable or cartridge. Each is at the bottom of the respective list.

ASR Basis Battery powered phono preamp (http://www.asraudio.de/Epdf/IEBasisExclusive.pdf)

Conrad-Johnson ART (http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/8/index.html)

Note this review was for the first generation. There was later mention of the ART II that I've heard. There was a version III as well.

http://www.vtl.com/pages/Amplifiers/Siegfried/

Hearing the predecessor to this beast (the Wotans) was the reason I bought the smaller 450s. If you like to see naked pictures of gear, then you'll like this:

Siegfried undressed (http://www.vtl.com/PDF/Siegfried%20Audio%20Review%20Italy.pdf)

Note the massive 780 joule power supply! For a SS amp running 70 volt mains, it would be equivalent to using 318,000 uF capacitance for each amp. Can you say stiff?

Nordost Odins (http://nordost.com/index.php?id=855)

It is difficult for me to imagine how good a $14k pair of ICs or $20k speaker cables can be!

Scaena speaker (http://www.scaena.com/scaena_homepage.htm)

These represent the evolution of the Pipedreams. Note the review (despite the fact that it was done by TAS. It is THAT system I will be hearing)

rw

[jrhymeammo]

And I take the room is as good as gear you have mentioned above?
You are one lucky man.

[E-Stat]

And I take the room is as good as gear you have mentioned above?
Very neutral indeed.


You are one lucky man.
Dumb luck. I was introduced to Dr. Cooledge (JWC) and his college friend HP when I was Basite's age. They have been incredible mentors over the decades.

rw

[BRANDONH]

SL-1200mk2
Fluid Damper
PS-1200
Cardas rewire with RCA
Strobe Disabler

Could this be the best $1K TT ever? I shall find out.

What's great about this is that I still have my SL-1200 mk2 so I can compare it's sound side by side. Also, I can always disable Fluid Damper, PS-1200 and Strobe Disabler so I can find out if those mods were actually worth it.

Hope to be spinning with a new deck before end of August.

JRA

Speaking of new toy curious minds need to know.

[jrhymeammo]

Dont want to ignore you, but I feel like I need a bit more time for a credible review. Great thing is that I still have my silver SL-1200 mk2 so I can compare them side by side within a minute. I'll be sure to let you know though.

JRA

[BRANDONH]

Dont want to ignore you, but I feel like I need a bit more time for a credible review. Great thing is that I still have my silver SL-1200 mk2 so I can compare them side by side within a minute. I'll be sure to let you know though.

JRA

OK but its killing me.

[jrhymeammo]

Brandon,

Here is my review you've been bugging me about. Geez, can't a man work 80 hours a week in peace? I can't believe you took me away from work on this precious Saturday. :biggrin5:

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/SDC10742.jpg

I havent added any gear for a while, so I feel like I know what I can expect out of my system.

Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference
E.A.R. 834 Integrated amp
VTL-2.5 Phono Pre (no Step-up-Transformer used)
LP Gear Zupreme headshell
Shelter 501mk2 (1.6g tracking and 1.8 anti-skate)

LP used: Grateful Dead, American Beauty
I've listened to this album over 100 times, so I felt like this was a good choice. It is certainly not considered musically complex, but it does have loads of subtle layers with good channel separation.


Here is what I've found after comparing KAB modded SL1200mk2 and stock SL-1200mk2.

Spark it Up!:
KAB SL has more clarity on higher freq on Piano and Mandalin. Stock SL sounded considerably strained. Even in my valve dominated system, Stock SL presented harsh edges. Fluid damper truly works the way it's advertised in my system. I wish I could tell you more on high freq response w/ low freq slam, but my speakers are limited to 7" in mid/bass.

On the Edge of Paranoia:
This is one area I really listened for. I've try to listened to edges of music(end of notes and sequences). Each notes are well distinct and not dragged out or sound mushy by any sense. I can truly hear when Jerry's shaky/unsteady voice ends. The Stock unit on the other hand couldn't gather that small, yet vital, portion on black shiny disc.


Bong Hits are Bad for your Lungs:
The track, Attic of my Life, really shows how much they smoked back in the late 60's.
Not just one, but all vocal members are gasping for air on the beginning of each verse.
That's probably why they moved on to sniffing that noise-candy. Stock unit does not sound as real as the KAB SL. Not that I care to hear hippies breathing, but it is a good indication on how well the tonearm tracks.


Open the Windows cuz Hippies and Shwag smells truly Aweful:
I've never noticed this until I compared them side by side, but the Stock unit sounds a bit congested. KAB unit had more clarity and height in sound. Not sure what it means to have more height in music, but it does sound alot more open. KAB unit is more on Transparent side, while the Stock SL is Translucent. Some of you might think I'm just going thru that crazy talk, but it is what I hear.


Coming Down from the High:
Taylo is a pair of bookshelf speakers with 1" domes and 7" woofer so, again, I cannot comment on the lower freq. Plus those hippies never knew what it was like to Come-Down from being high.


Conclusion:
I dont hate Hippies and KAB unit sounds better.
If I had to upgrade one option at a time, then I would go in a following order:

1. *Fluid Damper: Defintely worth the money, and can't see myself listening to music without it.
2. *Cardas Rewire: Ensures good signal transfer. May not be worth the cost. Mk5 comes with a stock OFC wire, so that should be good enough for most, if not all. I simply added this option to have more flexibility on sound/synergy/IC length.
3. *PS-1200: offer steady supply of juice, if needed. It is said to reduce W&F spec, but I honestly cannot tell. Does SL-1200 need to be more stable than what it already is? Let your wallet decide.
4. *Strobe Disabler: Absolute scam and useless for human beings. But I figured it would be a good bait for audiophiles when I decide to sell the unit on Agon.


Best Regards,
JRA

[BRANDONH]

Brandon,

Here is my review you've been bugging me about. Geez, can't a man work 80 hours a week in peace? I can't believe you took me away from work on this precious Saturday. :biggrin5:

http://gallery.audioreview.com/data/audio//500/SDC10742.jpg

I havent added any gear for a while, so I feel like I know what I can expect out of my system.

Tyler Acoustics Taylo Reference
E.A.R. 834 Integrated amp
VTL-2.5 Phono Pre (no Step-up-Transformer used)
LP Gear Zupreme headshell
Shelter 501mk2 (1.6g tracking and 1.8 anti-skate)

LP used: Grateful Dead, American Beauty
I've listened to this album over 100 times, so I felt like this was a good choice. It is certainly not considered musically complex, but it does have loads of subtle layers with good channel separation.


Here is what I've found after comparing KAB modded SL1200mk2 and stock SL-1200mk2.

Spark it Up!:
KAB SL has more clarity on higher freq on Piano and Mandalin. Stock SL sounded considerably strained. Even in my valve dominated system, Stock SL presented harsh edges. Fluid damper truly works the way it's advertised in my system. I wish I could tell you more on high freq response w/ low freq slam, but my speakers are limited to 7" in mid/bass.

On the Edge of Paranoia:
This is one area I really listened for. I've try to listened to edges of music(end of notes and sequences). Each notes are well distinct and not dragged out or sound mushy by any sense. I can truly hear when Jerry's shaky/unsteady voice ends. The Stock unit on the other hand couldn't gather that small, yet vital, portion on black shiny disc.


Bong Hits are Bad for your Lungs:
The track, Attic of my Life, really shows how much they smoked back in the late 60's.
Not just one, but all vocal members are gasping for air on the beginning of each verse.
That's probably why they moved on to sniffing that noise-candy. Stock unit does not sound as real as the KAB SL. Not that I care to hear hippies breathing, but it is a good indication on how well the tonearm tracks.


Open the Windows cuz Hippies and Shwag smells truly Aweful:
I've never noticed this until I compared them side by side, but the Stock unit sounds a bit congested. KAB unit had more clarity and height in sound. Not sure what it means to have more height in music, but it does sound alot more open. KAB unit is more on Transparent side, while the Stock SL is Translucent. Some of you might think I'm just going thru that crazy talk, but it is what I hear.


Coming Down from the High:
Taylo is a pair of bookshelf speakers with 1" domes and 7" woofer so, again, I cannot comment on the lower freq. Plus those hippies never knew what it was like to Come-Down from being high.


Conclusion:
I dont hate Hippies and KAB unit sounds better.
If I had to upgrade one option at a time, then I would go in a following order:

1. *Fluid Damper: Defintely worth the money, and can't see myself listening to music without it.
2. *Cardas Rewire: Ensures good signal transfer. May not be worth the cost. Mk5 comes with a stock OFC wire, so that should be good enough for most, if not all. I simply added this option to have more flexibility on sound/synergy/IC length.
3. *PS-1200: offer steady supply of juice, if needed. It is said to reduce W&F spec, but I honestly cannot tell. Does SL-1200 need to be more stable than what it already is? Let your wallet decide.
4. *Strobe Disabler: Absolute scam and useless for human beings. But I figured it would be a good bait for audiophiles when I decide to sell the unit on Agon.


Best Regards,
JRA
Thank you and great review!

I am looking into the damper but my 1210M5G arm is different and looks like I need to remove the kick adjuster...something only DJ's need it has no audiophile use what so ever.

I emailed Keven to ask him if it can be removed before I order one for my table.
Already have the super mat on its way and I have been using the rubber record clamp that he sells for some time now.

Did your table come with a record clamp?

Glad you like the KAB table happy spinning.

[jrhymeammo]

Nah,

If I was going for a clamp, I would go for a vacuum clamp like the Reflex clamp by SOTA.
I'll say a stock SL from KAB with Fluid Damper will perform 99% of my KAB modded unit. Fluid damper is a must. Also, thanks for your recommendations!

JRA

[emaidel]

I've posted before the fact that I don't share the enthusiasm several AR posters do for the Technics SL-1200, though I can understand (somewhat) why they feel as they do: the unit is exceptionally well made, rarely ever malfunctions, and will likely outlast its owner by decades.

That said, I still find it necessary to caution what appears to be a reliance on KABusa as a "legitimate" voice for the "superiority" of the 1200, and for what continues to be a blatant marketing scam in terms of "KAB Exclusive" Stanton cartridges.

Once again, KAB has taken a Stanton cartridge body and stuffed a Pickering stylus (a D-22E) into it, and chosen to call the end result a "KAB Audiophile Exclusive." That, I"m afraid, is out and out fraud. And, in case anyone reading this hasn't read any of my previous posts, the fact that I was Pickering's National Sales Manager in the late 70's, and Stanton's VP of Sales and Marketing throughout the 90's (prior to the company's sale) proves I know what I'm talking about.

I don't remember which cartridge the Pickering D-22E fits, but Pickering's top models (the XSV-3000, 4000 and 5000) didn't use it. Sticking that stylus into a Stanton 890 body doesn't make for an audiophile product any more than putting racing tires on a VW bug makes it a sports car. The retail price of the 890 (on The Needle Doctor's website) is $199.95. That includes two cartridges with different styli (one elliptical, and the other spherical). KAB's hodgepodge, with the aforementioned Pickering stylus sells for an outrageous $179.95.

Worse yet, is the insertion of this stylus, with the plastic handle removed, and the metal tube deliberately splayed apart and mangled, and stuffed into the company's cheapest plug-in DJ model (the Discmaster) and calling that also an "audiophile" product. Worst of all is that the Discmaster sells for $79.95, and the KAB-mangled version sells for the same ridiculous price as the 890 kluge - $179.95.

KAB continues to praise the SL-1200 as "havng no peer," a claim even Technics themselves never made. Selling dubious products such as the two "KAB Audiophile Exclusives" that I just described truly raises serious doubts about this retailer's sincerity and legitimacy.

I just thought it was important to point out these facts.

[BRANDONH]

Nah,

If I was going for a clamp, I would go for a vacuum clamp like the Reflex clamp by SOTA.
I'll say a stock SL from KAB with Fluid Damper will perform 99% of my KAB modded unit. Fluid damper is a must. Also, thanks for your recommendations!

JRA

yeah there is not much to the KAB rubber clamp but it does make a difference especially with focus and better definition.
Subtlety so.
Kevin promptly emailed me back explaining how to remove the kick adjuster I removed it.
It was a stubborn little biotch to break loose. :incazzato: but I got it removed.
And so I have ordered the fluid damper today.

http://www.kabusa.com/GIF/td1200a.jpg

And your welcome hope to see you often.

[BRANDONH]

WHOA!
I just tried it out and man what a difference.
The combination with the Technics Super 1/4" and the KAB rubber record clamp is just amazing.
The transformation has begun.
I wanted to do things in steps so I can see if I could hear the difference yep there is the vocals are much more in focus and the sound stage is wider, deeper and now quieter.
Its hard to believe the this table could get any quieter that it already was.
Recommended for those 1200 owners very recommended!

http://www.kabusa.com/m1200.htm
Next up the Fluid damper yeah baby :yesnod:

[jrhymeammo]

Good going, Brandon.

I'm not sure how much quieter this TT can get, but more focused sound is always better. My KAB unit came with that hefty 1/4" mat.
I'll say after the fluid damper, the only worthy upgrade would be the Isonode Feet or M6 Brass cones from Mapleshade and likes.

I'm back with Zupreme headshells. It produces more focused bass than Yamamoto's woody. I love it.

Have Fun,
H.

[BRANDONH]

Good going, Brandon.

I'm not sure how much quieter this TT can get, but more focused sound is always better. My KAB unit came with that hefty 1/4" mat.
I'll say after the fluid damper, the only worthy upgrade would be the Isonode Feet or M6 Brass cones from Mapleshade and likes.

I'm back with Zupreme headshells. It produces more focused bass than Yamamoto's woody. I love it.

Have Fun,
H.
That Zupreme is a real upgrade for the Technics I now have 2.
I thought the KAB would come with the thick mat it really made an immediate difference especially in the vocal section so that was 20.00 bucks well spent.

Did you get extra oil for the bearing?

I ordered another tube of oil with the mat and noticed they are putting about half as much as the previous bottle but it goes a long way.
I add a few drops at least once a month sometimes twice but I play the heck out of this table everyday I play at least one record and on the weekends pretty much all day.

Yeah do have my eve on the footers that KAB sells just doing just one tweak at a time to see iv there is a discernible difference.

[BRANDONH]

Good going, Brandon.

I'm not sure how much quieter this TT can get, but more focused sound is always better. My KAB unit came with that hefty 1/4" mat.
I'll say after the fluid damper, the only worthy upgrade would be the Isonode Feet or M6 Brass cones from Mapleshade and likes.

I'm back with Zupreme headshells. It produces more focused bass than Yamamoto's woody. I love it.

Have Fun,
H.

Another major upgrade!
Score!!!!
Thank you for recommending the KAB Fluid Damper what a difference.
The bass if much better and well its the whole sound stage is like high definition but to the ears. The details are so much better I can hardly believe its the same table.
worthy upgrade indeed.
I am in High Fidelity heaven :aureola: