Do wires make a difference poll.

[GMichael]

I see yet another thread debating whether or not speaker wires make a big difference. Let's put it to a poll for fun. (fun = no fighting)
Just for clarification, this assumes a minimum of 12 ga wire. We all know that 22 ga wire will not sound very good. But will Bluejeans or more exotic wires sound better than a set of std 12 ga wire from PE or Monoprice?

[kexodusc]

I voted yes, but incremental - there's a lot of other factors - some wires are engineered to alter the sound, while it may be pleasing, it's not necessarily "neutral". Those wires make a bigger difference. As do poor, corroded wires, but I didn't consider those either.

I've failed every test I've ever tried to hear differences I could repeatedly identify myself, but I can't see them having absolutely no effect on sound quality. I just prefer to invest my time and money into areas where I can hear more convincing differences. I'm inclined to believe gauge has less to do with sound quality at shorter lengths than shielding (if your environment requires it) and wire material, but that's based on opinions of friends/retailers whose views I trust more than personal experience. My homes haven't really had any interference problems requiring shielded cables to improve sound (though I do use some just in case...).

[basite]

wait...

are we talking about 'wires' (cables) in general, so Interconnects, speakercables, powercables..., or just about speakercables?

Kex makes a good point there, about the different goals of engineering...
although 'neutral' and 'altered' are subjective terms in a certain way...

In general, I do believe cables can make a difference (more than 'incremental'), but it's not like you're swapping speakers or so, It'll make a difference (and sometimes a bigger one than one expects...), but don't use cables to 'solve things'.

so I voted 'yes, absolutely, without question', but keep in mind what I typed here above...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Ajani]

some wires are engineered to alter the sound, while it may be pleasing, it's not necessarily "neutral". Those wires make a bigger difference.

That opens another old debate: does sounding different + being more expensive = better????
When we hear reviewers and audiophiles describe the fantastic improvements in sound by upgrading their cables, is it really an improvement or just that they've changed the sound?

Apart from the aforementioned engineered wires and low quality/corroded ones, I don't believe wires make much difference in sound quality. However, just to be safe I avoid using the really cheapy looking interconnects that come with products and buy some cheap audioquest gsnakes ($35)... even if they don't do anything to improve sound quality, they at least look good... :)

[RoadRunner6]

GMichael,

Thanks, this is a great pole and fun too.

I presume myself you mean speaker wires. I have wires holding my sternum together, that the heart surgeon put in, but don't think that was what you had in mind (BTW, they were cheap Home Depot wires and have disolved by now! :p ).

I am in the no difference camp (presuming some general reasonable guidelines). I have not voted yet, however, I predict number #3 will win as I feel most people think there is at least some difference but not a significant difference.

RR6 :thumbsup:

[GMichael]

The word speaker has been added right before the word wires. Sorry for the mix-up.:thumbsup:

So far, we're looking at a bit of a split.

[JohnMichael]

For years I have liked solid core speaker cables. I have owned Audioquest, Nordost, Tara labs, Alpha Core and in stranded cables I have owned Monster, Kimber, UltraLink and many years ago Hartley Reference cables. Now I have never owned a top of the line cable from any of the following manufacturers but I notice a definite difference between cables. Currently my Audioquest Slate bi-wire cables are sounding great in my current system. The Slate's are an important component in my system.

[hermanv]

I think the difference between most 12 gauge cables will be small. However I once had some 12 gauge zip cord, the kind with a clear plastic insulation and one copper colored wire and one silver colored wire. It was truly awful and is the main reason I test any wire before purchase. In this one case, the hyperbole about cables making a "huge" difference did seem to apply.

Currently I'm running Cardas 9.5AWG litz for bass and 8 conductors of 5 nines silver in individual teflon sleeves for the mid/tweet (15 AWG aggregate). The Cardas was reasonably priced, the silver was not.

[radtech13]

In my limited experience cables seem to clean up the sound, allowing certain frequencies to stand out more. I do not believe that they posses a sound.

[filecat13]

Every time I change wires I think I hear a difference. Yet science tells us our average sound retention abilities are fleeting--a few seconds at best. So I can't really remember the prior sound all that well.

But as long as I believe it's better... :21:

There are a few things I've used that definitely were worse, like Romex.

[hermanv]

Every time I change wires I think I hear a difference. Yet science tells us our average sound retention abilities are fleeting--a few seconds at best. So I can't really remember the prior sound all that well..I've challenged this belief before. Without more details it makes no sense; I can remember the difference between a trumpet and a violin for years (decades?). I suspect you can too.

[GMichael]

Every time I change wires I think I hear a difference. Yet science tells us our average sound retention abilities are fleeting--a few seconds at best. So I can't really remember the prior sound all that well.

But as long as I believe it's better... :21:

There are a few things I've used that definitely were worse, like Romex.

If we really can't remember, then why bother spending any more than $100 on a sound system? I feel so ripped off now.:sad:

[JohnMichael]

I see yet another thread debating whether or not speaker wires make a big difference.




I think speaker wires make a big difference, without them my speakers are oddly silent.

[Auricauricle]

I agree with Kex, that qualities of shielding play a role in the selection of speaker wire (or any other kind of cables).

Maybe it's akin to the Exorcist Phenomenon, but I think about the "weakest link" in matters like these. If I am going to spend a bucket o' money on components, why short change myself and skim on cables? Maybe they make a difference, maybe they don't--one day I'll do an A/B. In the meantime, merely feeling as though I have not cut any corners and have dotted all the I's and crossed all the T's helps me rest at night....

[GMichael]

I think speaker wires make a big difference, without them my speakers are oddly silent.

Details, details.

[markw]

I think speaker wires make a big difference, without them my speakers are oddly silent.Ah, but are they more silent without some wires as opposed to others ...?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I have speaker wires!!! :yesnod:

[Ajani]

I have speaker wires!!! :yesnod:

Congratulations!!!! Be careful though... cuz once you go down the crazy path of attaching your speakers to a receiver... next you'll want to connect the receiver to a dvd player.. and then maybe, just maybe one day, you'll plug them in and press power...

[Feanor]

I see yet another thread debating whether or not speaker wires make a big difference. Let's put it to a poll for fun. (fun = no fighting)
Just for clarification, this assumes a minimum of 12 ga wire. We all know that 22 ga wire will not sound very good. But will Bluejeans or more exotic wires sound better than a set of std 12 ga wire from PE or Monoprice?

Yes, I've thought I that I heard differences on occassion, but (given there were no rigorous tests), I might have been fooling myself. Certainly the differences were small. I'm one of very few audiophiles who will admit to not entirely trusting his/her own ears.

Then too my experience is almost entirely with low to low-medium priced cables, in the range of, let's say, $20-300. Here, whether speaker cable, analog or digital interconnects, the differences such as I've though I heard were fairly insignificant.

[GMichael]

I have speaker wires!!! :yesnod:

Do they make a difference?
Have you ever tried listening to your system without them?
Do they chase small children around after dark?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Congratulations!!!! Be careful though... cuz once you go down the crazy path of attaching your speakers to a receiver... next you'll want to connect the receiver to a dvd player.. and then maybe, just maybe one day, you'll plug them in and press power...
I think the judge of a real audophile is measured by how many relays click when one presses power. That's MY opinion.

Do they make a difference?
Yes because before I had speaker wire all I heard was the freakin' neighbor's dog barking! :mad5:

Have you ever tried listening to your system without them?
See #A above.

Do they chase small children around after dark?
I don't know. The last two children I rented were gone when I woke up the next day, if that's any indication. :idea:

[GMichael]

I think the judge of a real audophile is measured by how many relays click when one presses power. That's MY opinion.

Yes because before I had speaker wire all I heard was the freakin' neighbor's dog barking! :mad5:

See #A above.

I don't know. The last two children I rented were gone when I woke up the next day, if that's any indication. :idea:


:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

[hermanv]

I think the judge of a real audophile is measured by how many relays click when one presses power. That's MY opinion.

Yes because before I had speaker wire all I heard was the freakin' neighbor's dog barking! :mad5:

See #A above.

I don't know. The last two children I rented were gone when I woke up the next day, if that's any indication. :idea:There's is a lot of anecdotal evidence that Texas is not healthy for children and other living things :) :)

Have you heard the old joke about Arizona and Texas?
It turns out that Arizona had plenty of water from Lake Powell but no oil. On the other hand Texas had plenty of oil , but little fresh water. So the two governors got together and reached an agreement, Arizona would build a pipeline for water to head south and Texas would build a pipeline for oil to head north.

About a year later the project was done. The governor of Texas called the governor of Arizona and said "I notice we have a problem, we built a six inch pipe to carry oil north, but you only built a 1 inch pipe to carry water south". The governor of Arizona said "Yes we know, we all figured that you folks in Texas would suck hard enough to make up the difference".
:biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:
Sorry Rich, at least you're not a native.

[Rich-n-Texas]

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
Yeah I think I'm going to retract that last statement. I'm not THAT desperate! :frown2:

[Rich-n-Texas]

There's is a lot of anecdotal evidence that Texas is not healthy for children and other living things :) :)

Have you heard the old joke about Arizona and Texas?
It turns out that Arizona had plenty of water from Lake Powell but no oil. On the other hand Texas had plenty of oil , but little fresh water. So the two governors got together and reached an agreement, Arizona would build a pipeline for water to head south and Texas would build a pipeline for oil to head north.

About a year later the project was done. The governor of Texas called the governor of Arizona and said "I notice we have a problem, we built a six inch pipe to carry oil north, but you only built a 1 inch pipe to carry water south". The governor of Arizona said "Yes we know, we all figured that you folks in Texas would suck hard enough to make up the difference".
:biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:
Sorry Rich, at least you're not a native.
No need to apologize hermanv, that's the beauty of being a transplant from the north. I can deny sooooo much more this way. :ihih:

[GMichael]

Yeah I think I'm going to retract that last statement. I'm not THAT desperate! :frown2:

OK MJ.

I still think that you should just go to your local bar (or church, shopping plazza, etc) and sit there licking your eyebrows. Eventually, someone will start up a conversation with you.
Then you can tell them how big your hard drive is.

[hermanv]

I think the judge of a real audophile is measured by how many relays click when one presses power. That's MY opinion.
It's not the number of relays, it how dim the lights go and for how long. Extra points for a loud hum that gradually decays. :)

[Rich-n-Texas]

It's not the number of relays, it how dim the lights go and for how long. Extra points for a loud hum that gradually decays. :)
I don't think I want to enter that contest. :eek6:

[Auricauricle]

[QUOTE=Rich-n-Texas]No need to apologize hermanv, that's the beauty of being a transplant from the north. I can deny sooooo much more this way.[QUOTE]

Yeah, well around these parts, if you are a "transplant from the north", you are definitely due for a whoppin'!

Don't even think about denying nothin'!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yeah, well around these parts, if you are a "transplant from the north", you are definitely due for a whoppin'!

Don't even think about denying nothin'!
:eek6: Cat's outta the bag!

[Auricauricle]

....?

[GMichael]

:eek6: Cat's outta the bag!

Not yet.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Cute cats.

Not to get OT, but my cat, Thelma is no longer on insulin. Changed prescription food, she lost weight and has returned to a normal lifestyle. I'm very happy about that. :yesnod:

[Auricauricle]

Good for you for being proactive and getting your cat treated. I get sick of stories about animal owners who think their critters are little automatons that are simply present to be petted and fed. Like our needs, physiological, psychological and all the other tionals, criiters have similar issues. I am sure Thelma has more than nine lives left, thanks to you!

[GMichael]

Good for you for being proactive and getting your cat treated. I get sick of stories about animal owners who think their critters are little automatons that are simply present to be petted and fed. Like our needs, physiological, psychological and all the other tionals, criiters have similar issues. I am sure Thelma has more than nine lives left, thanks to you!

Every morning, my cats will follow me around until I pick them each up for a minute. Not until after that will they run to their bowl. And their bowl has an automatic feeder. They don't need me to feed them. They just want their morning hug first.

The cute little buggers.:thumbsup:

Glad that your cat is getting better Rich. Hope it continues.

[Auricauricle]

"Butterbean".

[antiphase]

The Cat's Meow regarding cables, the brilliantly funny and knowledgeable story at http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm, comes through with stunning clarity over the flimsiest of wires.

[Auricauricle]

Anti: This was a terriffic article to read. Very informative, frank and well written. I especially was appreciative for the comments regarding "conditioners". You will find comments I have made (among many others, alas) regarding a doohicky called the Exorcist, a product made by Gryphon Audio. This post shed a bit of light on this issue.

Thanks!
-Aa

[Rich-n-Texas]

Anti: Very nice segue back to the topic at hand. :thumbsup: