New toys on their way...

[nightflier]

My Spectron amp is going back to the shop again and this being the second time, I'm calling it quits on Spectron. In the meantime, I went back to using my PS Audio Classic 250 monos and while they sound great, they are not what I need: they are hunking big boxes that weigh a ton and my rack doesn't have the space for them (they are currently on the floor - bad WAF and perfect height for the kids to use them as drum kits). So I went back to the drawing board and decided to rebuild things from the ground up as follows:

- Odyssey Audio Candella preamp (with some custom work)
- Monarchy Audio SM-70 amps (set to mono)
- Talon Audio Khites

I'm sure Rich will be happy to know it's all US-made, LOL. I'm still searching for a decent source, but for now I'll just be using my trusty Audio Refinement CD. As soon as the gear comes in I'll post pictures - maybe even some topless ones in aevans' thread. I also realize that the system so far could be considered lush and warm sounding, so I'll definitely have my work cut out in finding gear that mates well. By the way, I'm also going Mapleshade with the cables and tweaks - I want to find out if Pierre Sprey is a genius or a loon. With the money-back guaranty he offers on everything, I can always send back what I don't like.

Considering that this is replacing a system that I would call the polar opposite, sound-wise:

- Plinius CD-LAD preamp,
- Spectron Digital amp, and
- Quad 22L speakers,

I'm really curious to hear how the new gear will perform. The Plinius will be going on a trip to Colorado so that someone else can give it a listen. The Spectron is comatose and currently on its way to the rehab center, and the Quads will go to a friend's house here in town.

I used to own an Odyssey Tempest, back in the day, and Klaus said this preamp will remind me of those good ol' times and then some. This is my first foray into tubes (auditioned some, but never owned), and I realize this may not have been the best "starter" set, but ya gota start somewhere. If I survive this, I might go tubes on my phono preamp too, but that's for another thread. Needless to say, I'm buying this preamp without ever having heard it, but with Odyssey, that's usually the only way to go. Besides, I admire the fact it is all hand-built and comes with a 20-yr. warranty, so I'm willing to take a chance here. The only drawback for me is that it does not have XLR and I was hoping to go balanced throughout, but that's a small quibble. This will be the first piece of gear I buy new in years (yes, I'm quite the cheapskate).

The Monarchy amps I got in a trade. They are about 1yr. old and looked pristine in the pics. I had auditioned an older pair before and really liked them and then sent them back and completely forgot about them. Then, a couple of weeks ago, I got a call from a dealer who knew someone who was looking to trade and he'll offer free shipping to boot. He said the gear was flawless, so I I figured that with no money out of pocket, what could I loose? In talking with people about matching them with the Odyssey, the consensus seems to be that this ill be ideal. Long-story-short, they should be here this week.

The Talons have been with me for about a year now and I can't say enough good stuff about them. They were part of my "auditioning" system, back when I had a second room for my gear. But for the last six months they have been crammed in with the HT rig and been quite unhappy at not being the center of attention anymore. That said, every single speaker I had compared them to could not measure up, so I am bringing them back from early retirement. If I get something better down to line, I'm always open to hearing it, but frankly I don't know that there is (at least in their price range). Anyhow, I've grown very familiar with their sound, so the other gear better measure up.

As I said, I'll post pics as soon as they arrive. The preamp is "in the queue" at Odyssey, so it could take a few weeks before it arrives, and I'll be using my Plinius until then - this will give me a baseline to work from, I suppose.

Woohoo :cornut:

[hermanv]

Luckily, it's only money.:) :) :) Enjoy.

[Feanor]

My Spectron amp is going back to the shop again and this being the second time, I'm calling it quits on Spectron. In the meantime, I went back to using my PS Audio Classic 250 monos and while they sound great, they are not what I need: they are hunking big boxes that weigh a ton and my rack doesn't have the space for them (they are currently on the floor - bad WAF and perfect height for the kids to use them as drum kits). So I went back to the drawing board and decided to rebuild things from the ground up as follows:

- Odyssey Audio Candella preamp (with some custom work)
- Monarchy Audio SM-70 amps (set to mono)
- Talon Audio Khites

I'm sure Rich will be happy to know it's all US-made, LOL. I'm still searching for a decent source, but for now I'll just be using my trusty Audio Refinement CD. As soon as the gear comes in I'll post pictures - maybe even some topless ones in aevans' thread. I also realize that the system so far could be considered lush and warm sounding, so I'll definitely have my work cut out in finding gear that mates well. By the way, I'm also going Mapleshade with the cables and tweaks - I want to find out if Pierre Sprey is a genius or a loon. With the money-back guaranty he offers on everything, I can always send back what I don't like.

Considering that this is replacing a system that I would call the polar opposite, sound-wise:

- Plinius CD-LAD preamp,
- Spectron Digital amp, and
- Quad 22L speakers,

I'm really curious to hear how the new gear will perform. The Plinius will be going on a trip to Colorado so that someone else can give it a listen. The Spectron is comatose and currently on its way to the rehab center, and the Quads will go to a friend's house here in town.

I used to own an Odyssey Tempest, back in the day, and Klaus said this preamp will remind me of those good ol' times and then some. This is my first foray into tubes (auditioned some, but never owned), and I realize this may not have been the best "starter" set, but ya gota start somewhere. If I survive this, I might go tubes on my phono preamp too, but that's for another thread. Needless to say, I'm buying this preamp without ever having heard it, but with Odyssey, that's usually the only way to go. Besides, I admire the fact it is all hand-built and comes with a 20-yr. warranty, so I'm willing to take a chance here. The only drawback for me is that it does not have XLR and I was hoping to go balanced throughout, but that's a small quibble. This will be the first piece of gear I buy new in years (yes, I'm quite the cheapskate).

The Monarchy amps I got in a trade. They are about 1yr. old and looked pristine in the pics. I had auditioned an older pair before and really liked them and then sent them back and completely forgot about them. Then, a couple of weeks ago, I got a call from a dealer who knew someone who was looking to trade and he'll offer free shipping to boot. He said the gear was flawless, so I I figured that with no money out of pocket, what could I loose? In talking with people about matching them with the Odyssey, the consensus seems to be that this ill be ideal. Long-story-short, they should be here this week.

The Talons have been with me for about a year now and I can't say enough good stuff about them. They were part of my "auditioning" system, back when I had a second room for my gear. But for the last six months they have been crammed in with the HT rig and been quite unhappy at not being the center of attention anymore. That said, every single speaker I had compared them to could not measure up, so I am bringing them back from early retirement. If I get something better down to line, I'm always open to hearing it, but frankly I don't know that there is (at least in their price range). Anyhow, I've grown very familiar with their sound, so the other gear better measure up.

As I said, I'll post pics as soon as they arrive. The preamp is "in the queue" at Odyssey, so it could take a few weeks before it arrives, and I'll be using my Plinius until then - this will give me a baseline to work from, I suppose.

Woohoo :cornut:

I haven't heard any of the specific equipment you mention, old or new, except the Monarchy but I'd guess you're right the it will be a warmer sound.

For clarification, are the Monarchys the original SM-70 or the Pro model? But they have a similar sonic signature so I hear. I have the Pros and love 'em. Certainly a warmer sound than the Tripath Bel Canto I used for several years, although "lush" would be an overstatement.

[Mr Peabody]

Ah, new gear, always a lot of fun. Hope it meets your expectations.

A couple thoughts on source, Audio Note has a "single box" player with the 1.1x internal DAC that used to be around $2.5k but I have no idea what current price is. Audio Note is one of the most natural sounding digital playback I've heard. I haven't heard one yet but the Shanling CDT-1000se is said to be very good for the money.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Best of luck with your... made in the good ol' US of A purchases nightflier! :thumbsup:

I watched a report on ABC News talking about how company's are bringing back their manufacturing to the states due to overseas shipping costs, fueled by rising... err... fuel prices. Although I'm sure that right now this is the exception rather than the rule, who knows what lies ahead for the A/V equipment makers.

[Mr Peabody]

And Rich sets a fine example of buying American with his Asian rig :)

[Rich-n-Texas]

Should've turned off my sig before I typed that huh? :o

[hermanv]

Best of luck with your... made in the good ol' US of A purchases nightflier! :thumbsup:

I watched a report on ABC News talking about how company's are bringing back their manufacturing to the states due to overseas shipping costs, fueled by rising... err... fuel prices. Although I'm sure that right now this is the exception rather than the rule, who knows what lies ahead for the A/V equipment makers.I've believed for some time that the savings of building overseas were largely an illusion. Unless you're building in the millions the endless stream of production problems use up the savings and your customers good will.

The Asian supplier will for example find an new source of ceramic caps at 1/2 the price and 20 times the failure rate.

Or there'll be solder problems - low grade solder, wrong temperature, too fast or too slow through the solder machine.

Parts just missing, incorrectly tested product or tested with not working test equipment.

Labels applied upside down, power cords miss wired, wrong color wires and any other problems caused by English documents being used by non-English speakers

I've personally experienced everyone of these problems. The accounting/budget office still allocates costs as if the stuff was built in the US so these production costs end up under warranty/customer service. Costs to fly there and fix it end up under the generic travel budget. And we're still not counting the costs of endless teleconference calls (nearly daily), Companies think they're saving money and wonder why they're losing customers.

Have you noticed how many refurbished products are suddenly available on the internet? Guess why that's now common.

[basite]

And Rich sets a fine example of buying American with his Asian rig :)


yeah, indeed... :D

I think it's time for him to buy a full blown Mcintosh setup with Thiel speakers :D


Congrats Nightflier, nice set :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[E-Stat]

yeah, indeed... :D

I think it's time for him to buy a full blown Mcintosh setup...
And he would still be buying Japanese.

rw

[Rich-n-Texas]

:lol: Two cookies for E-Stat!

[bobsticks]

- Odyssey Audio Candella preamp (with some custom work)
- Monarchy Audio SM-70 amps (set to mono)
- Talon Audio Khites


That's gonna be a nice setup.

[basite]

And he would still be buying Japanese.

rw


indeed :)

but they don't do anything with Mcintosh directly, and all Mcintosh units are designed & manufactured in the USA, so that makes it an American brand for me :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

[Rich-n-Texas]

- Odyssey Audio Candella preamp (with some custom work)
- Monarchy Audio SM-70 amps (set to mono)
- Talon Audio Khites


That's gonna be a nice setup.
- Odyssey Audio Candella preamp (with some custom work)
- Monarchy Audio SM-70 amps (set to mono)
- Talon Audio Khites

That's more than my mortgage! :yikes:

[jrhymeammo]

I feel your pain, NF. There is nothing worst than upgrading gears. But we are all forced to do it, every few often. Do you still have your HCA-2? I'm about to ditch mine. It's very smooth sounding, but doesn't get me involved very much.

Keep us posted with your new gears. I imagine Class-A amps will bring back some forgotten magic to your life.

Peas,
JRA

[Mr Peabody]

- Odyssey Audio Candella preamp (with some custom work)
- Monarchy Audio SM-70 amps (set to mono)
- Talon Audio Khites

That's more than my mortgage! :yikes:

Trailers cost that much these days? rim shot! Ooooooooo

[bobsticks]

Trailers cost that much these days? rim shot! Ooooooooo


Green Wiki for Peabody.

Now that's funny, Rich don't care who you are.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Aaaaaaaand... Two cookies for Mr. P! :smilewinkgrin:

[nightflier]

For clarification, are the Monarchys the original SM-70 or the Pro model?

They are the Pro models, although the ones I auditioned weren't. Glad to hear they'll have the same sound. Actually, Feanor, it was your positive experience with them that led me to Monarchy in the first place. I figured if they could drive your Maggies then they'd be worth a look-listen. The new ones are supposed to arrive today - I hope they were well packed.

Mr.P, if I want to stay US-only, then Shanling is out of the question, but is Audio-Note American-made? I have to say that I didn't really give the whole US-made only mantra much thought, but there is a lot to be said for buying local: less gasoline used in shipping, supports local economies and labor, keeps my dollars away from the multi-nationals, and by creating meaningful competition it helps fight the current trend towards product and service consolidation by these corporations. Besides, I get a lot more useful information and help from dealing directly with the owner of a small company than an inexperienced tech-support rep in some sweat-shop overseas.

Bert, you're in Belgium right? Wouldn't it be easier for you to go with a Danish or French setup? Plenty of good manufacturers and they tend to take the build-local / build-fair message rather seriously, too. The French especially are picky about it, kind of like with their wine, although I hear a lot of the German stuff is now made in Eastern European sweat shops - different languages but same problems. Or is MacIntosh more of a unique item in Belgium? I take it that Thiel carries the same cache, then? Do the Belgians still consider American-made gear (the few that are left) as top of the line?

Nice one about the trailer, Mr.P. Although here in SoCal, you'd be hard pressed to find a trailer with such a low mortgage too - the land it sits on would be the killer. Maybe an outhouse? Some of them look big enough to lay down in:

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jan2007/OuthouseTreasure.jpg
This must be a Texas outhouse, everything is bigger there, right?

(sorry, Rich, I couldn't resist)

[Rich-n-Texas]

There's one about that size down the street a ways. :smilewinkgrin:

[Mr Peabody]

Ah, I didn't realize you had an American theme going on. I'm not sure what to recommend for U.S. digital playback. Audio Note is not U.S. I'm not sure where Krell's head is at, their line has holes in it. I think they just offer expensive universal or SACD players. Is Musical Fidelity U.S.? They may mix well with your system if you are looking for warm. I haven't heard any PS Audio but that's an option. If you have around $8k I heard Conrad Johnson is coming out with a player. Why bring one out at $8k, I don't know.

Good luck with everything.

[RGA]

Musical Fidelity is in trouble and it's British

Audio note is British but at least it's made in Britain - most of the American stuff isn't made there anymore. Audio Note Kits is Canadian - is that close enough. You buy the Kit and build it yourself and if you're an American then you can say it is made in America.:14:

PS the one box CD 1.1 is $2800.00 which is the entry level CD player. It comes in 2 other versions - have no idea of the pricing.:14: However it will take some time from order to actually getting it. I have waited 2 months for my turntable. Such is life when they're hand built.

[Mr Peabody]

Why is MF in trouble? I sure didn't think they were British, they aren't like the typical gear you hear from over the pond.

I love it, if we build it ourselves it's made in America, LOL. Good point though and even our country probably don't get their parts from here. If AN is British why are the kits from Canada? Don't they also have a Japanese root? It seems they are shrinking in the market over the past few years. I hope they turn things around though, good stuff.

Any suggestions of quality U.S. digital playback?

[jrhymeammo]

Hey Rich, isn't it illegal in Texas to stare at another man's ass and wear black socks at the same time?

[Mr Peabody]

Hey Rich, isn't it illegal in Texas to stare at another man's ass and wear black socks at the same time?

Are you talking with, or with out, boots and spurs?

[nightflier]

For clarification, are the Monarchys the original SM-70 or the Pro model? But they have a similar sonic signature so I hear. I have the Pros and love 'em. Certainly a warmer sound than the Tripath Bel Canto I used for several years, although "lush" would be an overstatement.

The SM-70's arrive yesterday. Now, I know my way around amps, but the Monarchy manual makes very little sense. I finally figured out how to hook up the amps with balanced cables and have been enjoying them, but I still have to figure out how to hook up RCA cables (the coming preamp won't have XLR). Is there a web link that explains this in actual English?

By the way, the amps sound fantastic. I have them hooked up to a Threshold T3 preamp right now and the sound is anything but warm or lush. It is powerful, clear, detailed, and the imaging is spot on. And they can play pretty friggin loud, too. The Khites are 8 ohm and fairly stable, so they don't represent a tough load, but over the next couple of days I'll try a few others: Quad 22L, Meadowlark Swifts, and the old Klipsch RB5-II standbys.

Now since the Candela pre is RCA only, will I be giving up a lot when hooked up to these amps? Even if I ask Odyssey to install XLR's, I wonder if that will truly be balanced. And then I'm sure that will cost me too.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hey Rich, isn't it illegal in Texas to stare at another man's ass and wear black socks at the same time?
Okay wait a second, I missed this. :sosp:

Texans don't wear black socks. You must be thinking of the Canadians who wear black socks and sandals on the beaches in Galveston and Padre Island. :yesnod:

Edit: nightflier's a cowboy, why don't you ask him?

[Mr Peabody]

NF, it sounds like you have a pretty good collection of gear. That Threshold should be a pretty good pre.

Odyssey would have to redesign their pre to be truly balanced. A lot of manufactures will tap off the output line and make a XLR out. Even ARC has been known to do that. But these products are not the same animal as Krell, BAT or a hand full that are truly balanced. It must be a selling point though because the list of manufacturers that at least have some true balanced products are growing. I am very curious to hear some BAT tube gear. Most of the balanced gear I've heard has been more on the high current analytical side and it would be interesting to see how that topology mixes with tubes.

[Feanor]

The SM-70's arrive yesterday. Now, I know my way around amps, but the Monarchy manual makes very little sense. I finally figured out how to hook up the amps with balanced cables and have been enjoying them, but I still have to figure out how to hook up RCA cables (the coming preamp won't have XLR). Is there a web link that explains this in actual English?
...

Now since the Candela pre is RCA only, will I be giving up a lot when hooked up to these amps? Even if I ask Odyssey to install XLR's, I wonder if that will truly be balanced. And then I'm sure that will cost me too.
'Flier, glad your Monarchys arrived in good order. I'm not surprised your enjoying the sound. PersonalIy I found that the difference between single-end and bridged operation is extremely slight, so your Candela should do the job nicely.

No, the manual isn't exactly a strong point. However there's no problem running the amps in mono with RCA inputs. Have a look at the picture below: in the middle under the Balanced Input is a small toggle switch which you will need to set correctly.

For bridged operation from an RCA input, flip the switch to the up position and connect the RCA to the "Input A Mono In" RCA connector pictured to left. Pausing to read carefully, you'll see that that's actually what it says on the back of the amp: "UP for bridged operation, Input A", (hang the manual). Of course, you'll connect our speaker wires to the left and right Red speaker terminals for mono operation.

Incidentally, always set the switch to down if you are using XLR connectors, even if the source is putting out a single-ended signal.
...
http://ca.geocities.com/w_d_bailey/SM70_Pro_back.jpg

[nightflier]

For bridged operation from an RCA input, flip the switch to the up position and connect the RCA to the "Input A Mono In" RCA connector pictured to left. Pausing to read carefully, you'll see that that's actually what it says on the back of the amp: "UP for bridged operation, Input A", (hang the manual). Of course, you'll connect our speaker wires to the left and right Red speaker terminals for mono operation. Incidentally, always set the switch to down if you are using XLR connectors, even if the source is putting out a single-ended signal.

That's what I guessed.

BTW, I had a few minutes last night to play the Klipsch speakers. Wow, I never heard these sound that good. 'Could be that I never really used them with my high-output amps; I always figured that the Klipsch were for low-powered amps, so the big guns were never hooked up. I would say that the combination is a tad bright and etchy, particularly at high volumes, but if everything is set right, the volume low and I'm sitting exactly in the center, they sound extremely good with the Monarchy amps. Definitely will have to hear them with a tubed preamp.

One more thought: these amps get freakishly hot. I'm using risers to separate them from each other, but even with the highly efficient Klipsch they became very hot, too hot to touch, for sure.

[Feanor]

That's what I guessed.

BTW, I had a few minutes last night to play the Klipsch speakers. Wow, I never heard these sound that good. 'Could be that I never really used them with my high-output amps; I always figured that the Klipsch were for low-powered amps, so the big guns were never hooked up. I would say that the combination is a tad bright and etchy, particularly at high volumes, but if everything is set right, the volume low and I'm sitting exactly in the center, they sound extremely good with the Monarchy amps. Definitely will have to hear them with a tubed preamp.

One more thought: these amps get freakishly hot. I'm using risers to separate them from each other, but even with the highly efficient Klipsch they became very hot, too hot to touch, for sure.

I find "bright and etchy" a bit unexpected. :confused5: If these are new amps a little burn in is in order, though not hundreds of hours. Other than that, I think they take 10-20 to reach best sound after switch on. Or maybe it's just the Klipsh. Bear in mind that the Monarchy SM-70 Pros aren't really high power amps. Only 80 wpc into 8 ohms or 120 into 4.

Yes, they run quite warm. This isn't unexpected give their high-bias design. If you want to drive them hard, give them plenty of breathing space.

[jrhymeammo]

I bet they sound pretty damn sweet with right speakers. Massive heat-sinks, especially for their size.
I still regret that I never got to try Monarchy amps with Maggies. Perhaps later down the road....

Enjoy,

[jrhymeammo]

Okay wait a second, I missed this. :sosp:

Texans don't wear black socks. You must be thinking of the Canadians who wear black socks and sandals on the beaches in Galveston and Padre Island. :yesnod:

Edit: nightflier's a cowboy, why don't you ask him?

Hey NF,
Is it true that only Texans wear spurs inside of their home? Or was that only cowboys who got lost and found himself living in Cali? :cornut:

[nightflier]

Hey NF,
Is it true that only Texans wear spurs inside of their home? Or was that only cowboys who got lost and found himself living in Cali? :cornut:

Well, I dated a cowgirl in college who suggested wearing spurs to bed.... Well, not really, but she did wear her hat to bed once (no whips, though), LOL.

Anyhow, I got some more hours on these amps now and can say that I am liking them more and more. I did get to drive them to their limits, although not to clipping, and I will say that at their limit they are etched and not as pleasant sounding. The Khites can handle oodles of power and so I wanted to push it: I pulled out some of my old rock recordings (Scorpions, VH, Maiden, Priest, Zepp, Rainbow...). One of my favorite tracks is In Search Of The Peace Of Mind from the Scorpion's first album, and I really liked the way the bass guitar came through - it often gets washed out on other systems. Montrose's unmistakable voice also sounded very clear and open and I may be going out on a limb here, but I'm going to say the amps have a bit of an emphasis in the upper mids.

Needless to say the family wasn't home and after a while the neighbor came by to complain (more about the music selection, I think). He knows about my "hobby" so I invited him in to hear the system. He's not a rocker, but he asked if he could bring over some of his own stuff. Well after another few hours of playing Joy Division, The Smiths, Depressed, I mean Depeche Mode, and other stuff I didn't know too well, I did get a very good sense of what these amps can do. Curtis's voice again was a little too much front & center and while I say it's over-emphasized in the upper mids, maybe this is because I've always gravitated to a more laid back sound. Or maybe I've been listening to PS Audio amps too long... Hmmmm :sosp:

The neighbor, by the way was shocked at how much better this sounded to his system - it's always nice to hear that, especially when it is, as he put it, so g*d damn f*ing clear (I think he got his English education from Pete Burns rather than Morrissey). He does have an all Sony setup, so I wasn't too surprised. Any suggestions I have made over the years as to how he could improve things had to include Sony-branded solutions - so I didn't say much this time. Well at least this may get him to upgrade from the Sony speakers, which would probably offer up the biggest improvement w/o too much of a cultural shift.

Anyhow, I wanted to post some pics, but I don't have a website to host them. Is there a public (i.e. free) hosting service I can use that anyone can recommend?

[basite]

Anyhow, I wanted to post some pics, but I don't have a website to host them. Is there a public (i.e. free) hosting service I can use that anyone can recommend?


well, The Audio review photo gallery would do fine too :d

upload the pics there, and when they're uploaded, click them to view them, and then click them again to show them full size, then right click, and select 'copy picture location' (or the like), and paste the link here with (link) brackets around them...

another site is Flickr although I haven't uploaded any pictures there :)

Keep them spinning
Bert.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I use Photobucket nightflier. I get plenty of room to store pictures and I've never had any trouble accessing them. Bert's right though. If you use the AR.com Photo Gallery it makes including them in your posts pretty easy. You'll probably want to reduce their size so people aren't overwhelmed.

[nightflier]

http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=4136&ppuser=235531

So there they are. I took the picture right after unpacking.

The Candela should be arriving next week and I'll take pictures of it as soon as I unpack. Speaking of that, it will actually have XLRs, not fully balanced unfortunately, but this does open up all sorts of possibilities such as adding a subwoofer or easily comparing the two outputs. I wasn't too happy that it didn't offer balanced outputs, so I was going to cancel the order, but then Klaus called me back and offered this as an extra cost option and I went for it. Some other details: it also will forgo the HT bypass (I have no use for that) and offer one extra input instead. I also ordered the optional remote (volume only, but it's still better than nothing). Getting the preamp so customized is definitely a plus and is one of the main reasons I decided on Odyssey. I've seen people doing cosmetic upgrades too like wooden cabinets, so I may do something like that as well. My brother is a professional welder / artist and so I'll see if he has some thoughts. Anyhow, I can't wait to hear it.

[Mr Peabody]

So you feel the Monarchy amps are an improvement over the PS Audio? Or, just different?

I'm not familiar with Monarchy but PSA gets a lot of good talk.

[nightflier]

So you feel the Monarchy amps are an improvement over the PS Audio? Or, just different?

Oh this is going to spark quite a debate, I think. But I will say that I think the Monarchy amps are more involving, and I suspect this is because of a slight emphasis in the upper mids. That said, PS Audio amps have tons more power (even the HCA-2 is a monster in comparison). When I push the Monarchys to extremely high levels (mind you, not something I would ever do if listening for pleasure), then the power limitations are easily apparent. But they have more clarity and life at lower volumes, so yes, I am putting my vote behind the Monarchy (somehow that sounds a little off). :skep:

One big caveat is the heat these Monarchys put out - it's a lot more than any other amp I ever had, you can cook an egg on that amp after a couple of hours of listening. I almost feel like I'm going to have to keep at least one Class-D amp around just for those times I need the high volume and the temperature control. Here in SoCal, especially this summer, the air-con bills are going through the roof, not to mention how environmentally unfriendly this is (don't tell Rich I said that).

[Rich-n-Texas]

Oh this is going to spark quite a debate, I think. But I will say that I think the Monarchy amps are more involving, and I suspect this is because of a slight emphasis in the upper mids. That said, PS Audio amps have tons more power (even the HCA-2 is a monster in comparison). When I push the Monarchys to extremely high levels (mind you, not something I would ever do if listening for pleasure), then the power limitations are easily apparent. But they have more clarity and life at lower volumes, so yes, I am putting my vote behind the Monarchy (somehow that sounds a little off). :skep:

One big caveat is the heat these Monarchys put out - it's a lot more than any other amp I ever had, you can cook an egg on that amp after a couple of hours of listening. I almost feel like I'm going to have to keep at least one Class-D amp around just for those times I need the high volume and the temperature control. Here in SoCal, especially this summer, the air-con bills are going through the roof, not to mention how environmentally unfriendly this is (don't tell Rich I said that).
Too late! :prrr:

Due to poor air circulation in my attic, my living room gets to about 79 degrees even with the central air conditioner running, on 100 degree days. The compressor runs without shutting off for 4 hours or more with the thermostat set at 78. When I'm listening to CD's and such in 2 channel straight mode, I feel very little heat at the top of my amp. This is true even when the room is seeing 90 dB. :ihih: In my setup the TV is the biggest heat producer, with the receiver being #2.

As far as environmentally unfriendly? You'll never see me driving a "Smart" car.:frown2:

[Feanor]

Oh this is going to spark quite a debate, I think. But I will say that I think the Monarchy amps are more involving, and I suspect this is because of a slight emphasis in the upper mids. That said, PS Audio amps have tons more power (even the HCA-2 is a monster in comparison). When I push the Monarchys to extremely high levels (mind you, not something I would ever do if listening for pleasure), then the power limitations are easily apparent. But they have more clarity and life at lower volumes, so yes, I am putting my vote behind the Monarchy (somehow that sounds a little off). :skep:

One big caveat is the heat these Monarchys put out - it's a lot more than any other amp I ever had, you can cook an egg on that amp after a couple of hours of listening. I almost feel like I'm going to have to keep at least one Class-D amp around just for those times I need the high volume and the temperature control. Here in SoCal, especially this summer, the air-con bills are going through the roof, not to mention how environmentally unfriendly this is (don't tell Rich I said that).

I've never noticed an upper-mid-range emphasis with the Monarchys, but then I've never had the PS Audio for comparison, (I did own a Class D Bel Canto.) Perhaps the issue is synergy -- your Talons vs. my Magneplanar? :idea: On the other hand I agree that they have plenty of "clarity and life".

Presumably you are driving the Monarchys harder than I do. They certainly run warm, (for that matter they idle rather warm), but I couldn't fry eggs on mine.

[nightflier]

I've never noticed an upper-mid-range emphasis with the Monarchys, but then I've never had the PS Audio for comparison, (I did own a Class D Bel Canto.) Perhaps the issue is synergy -- your Talons vs. my Magneplanar? :idea: On the other hand I agree that they have plenty of "clarity and life".

Presumably you are driving the Monarchys harder than I do. They certainly run warm, (for that matter they idle rather warm), but I couldn't fry eggs on mine.

For the heck of it, I put a pan on one of the amps with an egg in it, but aside from a little bit of cooking, no omelette. However, I did discover some interesting new things:

- The Plinius CD-LAD pre-amp is less bright and more neutral, so the mid-trebble emphasis may have been the Threshold T-3. Also tried the PS Audio PCA-2 but that was a touch darker than with the Plinius and kind of makes me loose even more of the sexyness of the Monarchys: their clarity and openness.

- Klipsch speakers are just a bad match, period. Probably synergy more than anything else but it may also be that the Monarchys are in a different league altogether. The best synergy was actually with another set of speakers, the Meadowlark Swifts. I think this has to do with the fact that they are more tube-friendly (sort-of) and the Monarchys are not extremely powerful. It almost gives me an idea for a new direction in what I'm trying to achieve (see below). The Talons do a good job, but may be overkill, here. They eat amplifiers for lunch and want as much as you can throw at them (the manual says that they are rated to be able to handle 500W into 8 Ohms). The Monarchys sound fine with them, but the Swifts were a touch better and a more natural/organic sounding match. This really threw me for a loop, because I never really cared too much for the Meadowlarks and was getting ready to sell them. Now don't get me wrong, the Khites are awesome speakers and still my reference, but I just think they are a better match with much higher-powered amps - they need lots of volume to really sound fantastic, and I'm not so sure the Monarchys are loud-players.

- Driving them full-bore, there is an improvement in sound when using lower gauge (i.e. thicker) speaker cables. The Mapleshades have not yet arrived, but that gives me pause about their svelte appearance. I must have tried half a dozen 8-12' cables and while they sound slightly different (when I can actually tell this), the only consistent difference is that thicker sounds better. I guess that sounds a little silly, if you think about it - isn't that what should be the case? Anyhow, I'll leave it at that - we'll see if Mapleshade cables prove me wrong.

- I still don't have a digital source I feel comfortable with to confirm everything. Currently I'm passing everything through my trusty Aragon D2A dac and I could be introducing serious limitations with such an old processor. Now this DAC is no slouch, it bested my MSB and Arcam dacs, but it's been so long since I have had any other alternatives, including a decent transport (currently using Audio Refinement Complete CD), that I really should have something better before proceeding. I'm still in the market for a $2K player, but with what I've purchased recently I'm sort of out of funds for a while.

So now back to my new plan. Instead of having one reference setup, I am stuck with two systems in the making (I know, that sounds a bit extravagant). But he issue is that I just don't know that everything is going to gel as well as I would like. Basically, I'm not willing to part with some components (like the Talons) just because they don't mesh as well with my amps as others that have up until now proven to be less impressive (like the Meadowlarks).

This really flies in the face of my downsizing plans. Not only will my wife not like this but this is obviously going to be more expensive over time, not to say anything about two systems being a whole lot less green. So with those things in mind, I was thinking that I should really put everything on one big, tall component rack. Space-wise the only additional space would be for the extra pair of speakers - not ideal, but maybe passable. One mitigating factor is that I'd only use one at a time and could leave the power off on the other. Actually if I stick with a Class-D amp for the other system, that could be my summer-run-cool system.

Which leaves me with this hypothetical moral question: is a 500W class-D amp really more green than a 70W regular amp? Yes the little guy produces a lot of heat, but then there is Winter....

[nightflier]

OK, I just received notice that my preamp is almost ready. But I need to let them know how the XLR pin-outs are wired. Does anyone know which pin is ground, which is normal polarity (hot) and which pin is inverted polarity (cold)? Most amps out there are 1=ground, 2=hot (closest to notch), 3=cold, but then there's always that odd-bird out there (Levinson for one) who feel a need to do things differently. Is the SM-70 one of those odd birds?

[hermanv]

As long as ground stays the same the other two just invert absolute polarity. If needed you can just invert the speaker wires.

[nightflier]

As long as ground stays the same the other two just invert absolute polarity. If needed you can just invert the speaker wires.

ground is the one that is usually swapped with pin 2, no?

Of course this would cause a nasty ground loop. Any danger to my equipment I should be worried about?

[hermanv]

ground is the one that is usually swapped with pin 2, no?

Of course this would cause a nasty ground loop. Any danger to my equipment I should be worried about?No! Some equipment comes with only balanced inputs, the manual will tell you to ground the unused polarity when it is used with an unbalanced source.

Although the gain drops, I have read posts that claim a cleaner sound when people with single ended signals driving balanced inputs leave the other polarity open. Makes no sense to me, but if it sounds good who cares if it makes sense?

[Feanor]

OK, I just received notice that my preamp is almost ready. But I need to let them know how the XLR pin-outs are wired. Does anyone know which pin is ground, which is normal polarity (hot) and which pin is inverted polarity (cold)? Most amps out there are 1=ground, 2=hot (closest to notch), 3=cold, but then there's always that odd-bird out there (Levinson for one) who feel a need to do things differently. Is the SM-70 one of those odd birds?

As far as I know the Monarchy polarity is standard, see below.

It's worth noting that the 'hot' and 'cold' contacts are actually both 'hot', i.e. providing signal, in true balance operation. Both are alternating current but out of phase: while one is 'pushing' the other is 'pulling'.

Exchanging the hot for cold is meaningless -- unless you believe absolute polarity makes a big difference. I'm not so sure about exchanging one of the actives for ground: but I suspect it isn't a big deal. I have made XLR<=>RCA hybrids by jumping 1 and 3 with no bad consequences.
...

[nightflier]

I just got an email from CC and the pin-outs on the Monarchy SM-70 Pro are standard: 1=ground, 2=hot (+), 3=cold (-).

So the Candella with XLR outs is shipping today. According to Klaus this is the first of its kind (that has dual outputs and one of which is XLR), so I'm pretty excited about that. They have tested it already and were very happy with the results, so it also won't need as much burn-in. I'll also be able to test the RCAs against the XLRs. Yes, I know this isn't truly balanced, but it still gives me the option of two outputs - I can use the second for a subwoofer.

I ordered the plain black bezel rather than the silver, and added the remote. The remote is volume & mute only, since the input switching would affect the sound too much. I also opted to forgo the HT bypass and just made that another input. The tubes are the standard ones, which are supposed to be middle-of-the-road in sound, but they asked me to keep those in for a few months before I roll them to get familiar with the sound. I like to tweak things, so I can't promise I'll stick to that. I will try some other tweaks like sorbotane feet, spikes, different cables and tube dampers (all of which I have little faith in but want to try nonetheless), but I guess I'll wait on those as well. This is my first experience owning a tube component (I've auditioned some but never kept any), but apparently these are relatively low-maintenance and should last 5-7 years. I also don't know how hot this preamp will get, so that will be a discovery as well. Anyhow, this hobby is all about learning new things, right? Once it arrives I will post some pictures, some topless ones.

Let's see if I can sum that up: she wears black & spikes, takes a little while to warm up but can get pretty hot, wants me to wait a few months before I roll her, is willing to pose topless, will be good to me for 5-7 years, and is going to teach me new things. Ouch! :devil:

[nightflier]

Well it's here and it does have the XLR outputs. It came with a remote that obviously doesn't match - I probably should have saved the money and asked for the non-remote version. It has buttons for several other functions but only volume and mute work on it. The unit also shipped without instructions, although it doesn't look too hard to figure out. Otherwise it's a very solidly-built preamp and heavy too. I'm not crazy about the RCA jacks as I was hopping that they would be attached to the chasis like my other gear, but they aren't flimsy either (I'm picky about this, because on my Outlaw preamp, one of the component video RCA jacks broke loose and sending it in for repairs means I'll be without surround sound for weeks - maybe it's time to finally upgrade that one).

Ironically my Spectron D1 just came back from the shop as well. So this will be a good opportunity to put that up against the Monarchy amps. My expectation is it will sound about as different as two types of amps can be. The Spectron has been repaired twice now, both times for the same reason: the left channel crapped out. They assure me that it is now back up to spec and that it should work for years, even decades, w/o problems. Well we'll see about that.

I'll also compare the Candela with the Plinius CD-LAD. Again, I'm expecting some significant differences. If there is one thing the 'LAD has been consistent about is that it is the most neutral preamp I have ever owned - everything I've compared it to has sounded slightly emphasized in one area or another. Like with the Threshold preamp, this has sometimes led me to believe it is lacking in some way, but after some a/b testing I always seem to fall back on the 'LAD's neutrality. That is one amazing preamp. Comparing it to the tubed Candela should be interesting. Klaus said that he was very pleased with the sound before he shipped it out and would like to know what I think of it as well.

Unfortunately I will be out of town this weekend, so I won't be able to listen to it much before that. But I should have time to post more pictures of the units before I leave.

[Feanor]

...

Ironically my Spectron D1 just came back from the shop as well. So this will be a good opportunity to put that up against the Monarchy amps. My expectation is it will sound about as different as two types of amps can be.
...

'Flier, do you have a link to Candela specs, etc.? It seems it isn't included on the Odyssey, (not Audyssey) website which is pretty wierd.

Spectron is, of course, one of the longest standing digital manufactures and have an excellent rep for sound, so comparision with the Monarchys will be meaningful. I must admit I was a bit astonished by your earlier comments on the Monarchy. As I recall you said it was relatively forward compared to the PS Audio.

The tube pre/Monarchy combo should be very fine, though. I like my Sonic Frontiers LINE 1 with the Monachys, albeit the SF is somewhat renouned for its neutral, S/S-like sound.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...Let's see if I can sum that up: she wears black & spikes, takes a little while to warm up but can get pretty hot, wants me to wait a few months before I roll her, is willing to pose topless, will be good to me for 5-7 years, and is going to teach me new things. Ouch! :devil:
What's this?

What's her name?

Does she got any sisters? :ihih:

Sounds like fun times ahead for you nightflier. Good luck with that exotic equipment line up! :thumbsup:

[nightflier]

'Flier, do you have a link to Candela specs, etc.? It seems it isn't included on the Odyssey, (not Audyssey) website which is pretty wierd.

LOL. How many ways are there to misspell Odissey? It certainly is easier to type PSB or Adcom when you're in a hurry...

I asked about the website. From what I can gather, Klaus is building all the Candelas by hand, so he wants to keep the release a bit quiet so that he can keep up with demand. It's why he also hasn't allowed any professional reviews of the unit either, although he's been asked already. The website has also been having some technical issues lately with incorrect older info being posted without Klaus' approval. I think he's looking for a new webmaster right now. In any case, he promised to have updated info up soon - but for now, the Candela is still very much in the available-by-request-only phase and specs are nearly impossible to come by, even from Klaus himself. If anyone has more info, I for one would love to read it. Please post.


Spectron is, of course, one of the longest standing digital manufactures and have an excellent rep for sound, so comparision with the Monarchys will be meaningful. I must admit I was a bit astonished by your earlier comments on the Monarchy. As I recall you said it was relatively forward compared to the PS Audio.

Well I've back & forth between PSAudio and Spectron for years. Worms over at PS Audio has always been excellent about questions and support and I really can't say that Spectron has been as responsive. That said, on the sound, I prefer the Spectron a tad more. I have 4 PS Audio amps right now: HCA-2, GCC-250, Classic 250 monos, and a GCA-MC. What I didn't like so much about the music capabilities of the PS Audios, turned out to be a strength for movie watching: oodles of bass, depth and height. But for music I think Spectron has more clarity and focus. Of course, I only have the one Spectron to compare the others to, but I think that PS Audio engineers prefer to tune the amps towards a more full-bodied warmer sound. This isn't necessarily bad, but you have to be careful what kind of pre you put it with. Let me be clear, though, I'm not knocking PS Audio amps or anything, they are still a great value and perhaps I'm a bit over analytical about it. They sound different from the Spectron, but it's not night & day either - it's subtle.


The tube pre/Monarchy combo should be very fine, though. I like my Sonic Frontiers LINE 1 with the Monachys, albeit the SF is somewhat renouned for its neutral, S/S-like sound.

Ironically the Candela is also tuned for pairing with solid state gear. Klaus said that the tubes were "middle of the road" and not as tubey as some other tube preamps out there. They were chosen for their ability to play nice with the widest number of amps. I think a shoot-out between the Sonic Frontiers and the Candela would reveal more similarities than differences.

[Mr Peabody]

That's interesting that Odyssey is dabbling in tubes. I'm interested to see how the Candela sounds. If you don't mind, how much does one cost?

[nightflier]

That's interesting that Odyssey is dabbling in tubes. I'm interested to see how the Candela sounds. If you don't mind, how much does one cost?

They cost about $1500, depending on options (I paid a bit more), and they are made-to-order right now. On such small runs, availability of parts is always a concern, so the Candelas they were selling last year are different than the ones today. It takes about 3-4 weeks to order one, although that can vary too, especially if you want something fancy. They are available in all the finishes that the Stratos amps are available in, too.

If you want to save a little, you can usually buy a used one for around $1000. Audiogon has one every so often. The warranty is still 20 years and it's transferable, so that's really the best way to get one. Most of the ones that are custom-built are hand-signed with the buyer's name on them too (I suppose you could have Klaus write anything you like on it).

In any case, from everything I've read, for $1K, it's a screaming deal. I've read reviews of people dumping $5K preamps in favor of this one. I don't think I'll be ditching my 'LAD over it (after all that one is fully balanced), but I certainly don't feel like I got ripped off in any way. But I haven't even heard it yet, so maybe I should temper my enthusiasm until I do hear it.

Ah this hobby is going to kill me....

[Mr Peabody]

That is a good price for a quality preamp.

[nightflier]

What's this?

What's her name?

Does she got any sisters? :ihih:

Sounds like fun times ahead for you nightflier. Good luck with that exotic equipment line up! :thumbsup:

If you're OK with dating a hottie named Tempest. Under the right circumstances, she could be the wind beneath your wings, but most of the time, she's a bit stormy. While she'll wear spiked heels, too, she's not willing to be rolled, preferring instead to be more solid-state. She's also not much of a looker, although she does have two large knobs on the front, that will turn heads I suppose. I hear the smaller knobs, when turned just right can make her purr like a kitten. She will wear blue, red and even gold-toned dresses, so a lot depends on how you dress her up. Overall, she's quite the overachiever, though, and if that's your thing, well then by all means....

You may want to stay clear of her ugly step sister, Etesian, though. She's a bit more pedestrian, although she also has two large knobs that can be dialed in for a good experience. But she never quite reached the heights of her sisters, some would call it pleasantly stout or big-boned to be kind. Just be aware, that while she's a cheap date, she's also a bit bitter about the whole thing. As a result she only wears black and you can forget about remote controlling her. True, Tempest doesn't want to be remote-controlled either, but at least she's willing to dress up for you.

:shocked:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Alright alright... I get the point! Sheesh!

Californians... whaddaya gonna do? :nonod:

[hermanv]

Alright alright... I get the point! Sheesh!

Californians... whaddaya gonna do? :nonod:And this from the land of high heeled short shorts and blondes in a bottle?

Do you guy's still have drive through Pina Colada shops?

[Rich-n-Texas]

And this from the land of high heeled short shorts and blondes in a bottle?
"Blondes in a bottle?" HA! Last I checked LA was still in California. Blondes-in-a-bottle, boobs-in-a-bottle...etc. :hand:


Do you guy's still have drive through Pina Colada shops?
Good grief. Y'all don't know your geography do ya? Pina Colada's are a Hawiian treat, just ask Cartman/JSE. We have margarita drive throughs in Texas.

Let's try not to get so distracted in our next geography class okay people? :rolleyes:

[hermanv]

I've only been to Texas twice, as a male I couldn't help but notice a large number of females attired in a fashion I personally find quite pleasing.

Yes California has it's share, but none older than 19. And while there is nothing wrong with 19 an older woman also offers some additional depth, for one you can talk to her and there is a chance the perpetual gum chewing of the Californian younger set will be missing.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...Yes California has it's share, but none older than 19. And while there is nothing wrong with 19 an older woman also offers some additional depth, for one you can talk to her and there is a chance the perpetual gum chewing of the Californian younger set will be missing.
Hmmm.... I think I know now what I've been doing wrong. I should move to Cali. :yesnod:

[O'Shag]

NightFlier - pity about the Spectron amp. I have the 1KW and Model 10. They are serial number 1 and 2. They sound simply awesome- incredible clarity, speed, very good imaging, and excellent timbral/tonal performance. Sound is right in between tubes and solid state. What problems were you having? How does it compare now that you have the Monarchy amp? Those Talons must be nice.

I'm working on some new gear too, but am about to fork out for one of the previous model Jaguar XKRs (2004), so any new gear will have to wait. Love the new XKRs, but for some reason, I find the older models to be one of the most beautiful looking cars ever built.

[nightflier]

I'm working on some new gear too, but am about to fork out for one of the previous model Jaguar XKRs (2004), so any new gear will have to wait. Love the new XKRs, but for some reason, I find the older models to be one of the most beautiful looking cars ever built.

(as he says in a hushed voice, from the back of the classroom...)

O'Shag's interested in Tatas?

Just messing with ya. Yes, they do look nice, and Ford's been able to improve on that service record substantially I hear. I hope they don't come with Bose sound systems, though.