$24,000 CD player. [Archive] - Audio & Video Forums

Smokey

05-31-2008, 09:27 PM

Boulderamp just release a $24K CD player that can upsample 44k/16 bit CDs to 192 khz and 32-bits sample rate. Sporting a 6.5-inch full-color LCD to display track listings, menus and setup features. With AES digital output

It incorporate computer that provides a buffero f more than one minute. Raw data from the buffer is manipulatedentirely in the software domain by a dedicated digital signal processor (DSP).

This product is probably 20 years too late. With softawre music taking over music hardware such as CDs, one would think why this product was conceived in this time. Plus, how much improvement can upsampling make when the source is only 44khz with 16 bit sampling rate.

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/boulder-1021-disc-player-plays-your-music-and-upsamples-your-cds-too/

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/05/30/boulder-1021-disc-player_2qw5D_2263.jpg

basite

06-01-2008, 02:42 AM

I bet it does sound good :D

but 24k is just a little over the top...

DCS is worse though... :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Feanor

06-01-2008, 04:27 AM

This product is probably 20 years too late. With softawre music taking over music hardware such as CDs, one would think why this product was conceived in this time. Plus, how much improvement can upsampling make when the source is only 44khz with 16 bit sampling rate.

http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/boulder-1021-disc-player-plays-your-music-and-upsamples-your-cds-too/

There is also the Memory Player for NovaPhysics (http://www.novaphysicsgroup.com/RetailPricingPage6.html). Fully configured, it is in the same price range.

And as Basite mentions, a dCS Scarlatti "stack" (http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/index2.html), (transport, DAC, and word clock), is more than twice the price.

Not to mention that a configuration for emmLabs (http://www.emmlabs.com/index.html) could easily top $24k.

dCS and emm do have various capabilities, such as DSD handling, that go beyond CD playback that might justify their very high prices.

mlsstl

06-01-2008, 05:25 AM

Ajani

06-01-2008, 05:55 AM

They may be late to the dance, but they'll probably still sell some. At that price they don't have to sell very many.

High priced gear typically (but not always) includes a "bragging rights" component. There is also a fashion statement aspect that runs up the cost (and even if you don't think its fashionable, someone else will).

And CD isn't done yet. I've got a music server (and no CD player) in my main system, but in spite of all the people I know who have iPods, I don't know a single other person (outside of forums such as this) who use a music server in their home system. Everyone else is still playing CDs when they listen to their home system. The CD may be getting up in years but it isn't time for the funeral just yet.

I suspect that's just a matter of time... I don't think enough people are even aware of how to conveniently hook up their Computer (music server) to their main system & have a remote/some way to change tracks without going to the computer...

As products like AppleTV, Squeezebox duet etc.. get more popular and more importantly - copied by other manufacturers, I suspect we'll see the media server become the main source of music for many home systems.

mlsstl

06-01-2008, 07:32 AM

You're right - it's a matter of time.

There are plenty of examples. Broadcast TV to cable; the cable/satellite competition, VHS to DVD. 78s to LPs, LPs to cassettes, LP/cassette to CD.

Some of these transitions were incomplete (broadcast TV still exists, cassettes never replaced LPs) while other transitions - the DVD and LP - completely wiped out their predecessors for all practical purposes.

Some of these transitions took a long time. The 33 rpm record was actually first developed in the 1930s but wasn't introduced to the public until 1948 by Columbia. However, the RIAA recording standard for equalization wasn't formally agreed to by all record companies until the mid-1950s. The 78 record continued to be produced well into the 1950s.

Video tape was first released in the 1970s but took a while to get going. I still remember paying $30 for a single blank tape in 1979. (Adjust that for inflation!)

In all of these situations you're looking at roughly a decade or more after introduction to the public for a new format to oust the old one. In the case of hard drive storage, you also have the issue of whether the standard is going remain 16 bit/44.1KHz or go higher. You also have the issue of working out delivery of lossless formats, particularly at higher bit rates. Lots of things could happen and those issues haven't even started to be settled at the level of wide public acceptance. Regardless of what audiophiles might prefer, they generally aren't the sole deciding factor in such decisions.

RGA

06-01-2008, 08:39 AM

I'm not sure where the Linn Kimax DS fits into the technology scale but their units run $12k and $20k. It bettered their best cd replay by a fair bit.

http://www.linn.co.uk/klimax_ds

The CD format is dying quickly - the first quarter CD sales are down 30% and the quarter before that it was already down substantially. The number one CD store in Western Canada has been closing several stores and were bankrupt a couple years back but got bought out - the new owner has not paid the bills though. Future Shop used to sell tons of cds but their classical section is completely gone and DVD and video game space has dwarfed the CD section.

Audiophiles have ZERO impact on the media. SACD would have completely failed but companies like Sony added SACD capability to entry level dvd players to prop up sales. They double encoded discs with both SACD and CD versions.

SACD only machines flopped and not enough people would buy SACD hardware just for software - SACD sales from people who wanted SACD is vastly lower than people who bought a CD that happened to have SACD encoding (maybe even without the owner's knowledge). A Sony rep mentioned that they were toying with dumping the technology - hardware and software in as early as 3 years. If Sony dumps it - it's over.

Convenience is what people are after - and if the Linn type stuff is no worse than CD and it is more convenient then it's a no brainer. Except that it can't sell for $12k - it has to sell for $120 - but eventually it or a competitor will sell it for $120 and the CD will die.

Anyone want a lightly used Sony 300 disc mega changer for a low low price?

I'll still buy an Audio Note CD player and when everyone dumps all their CD's like they did with Vinyl I'll be there. All those $100.00 Laser Discs selling for $7 - CD's that were $20.00 will be going for $2.

And since there's a LOT of music I've never heard it sure will be nice to be able to buy 10 CD for the price of one and save the hard drive for porn like it was meant for.:devil:

blackraven

06-01-2008, 02:52 PM

The mom and pop CD stores here in the Twin Cities are always busy when I'm there.
And vinyl is making a huge come back here as well. More and more stores have been expanding their vinyl sections. Even a DJ on the Radio said that Vinyl is making a come back here.

The only places I see a drop off in CD business is at stores like BB and CC.

I also think that a drop off in music sales is due to the crap that is produced today. Mostly one hit wonders.

pixelthis

06-01-2008, 08:17 PM

They may be late to the dance, but they'll probably still sell some. At that price they don't have to sell very many.

High priced gear typically (but not always) includes a "bragging rights" component. There is also a fashion statement aspect that runs up the cost (and even if you don't think its fashionable, someone else will).

And CD isn't done yet. I've got a music server (and no CD player) in my main system, but in spite of all the people I know who have iPods, I don't know a single other person (outside of forums such as this) who use a music server in their home system. Everyone else is still playing CDs when they listen to their home system. The CD may be getting up in years but it isn't time for the funeral just yet.

Depends on what you call a "server".
Is it a usb HD with an entire collection on it in flac?
Thats what I use.
And the Ipod could be called a "server", really, so what if its portable?
I think the sudden death of CD has everybody surprized, its become such a part of the landscape, and IMHO, still the way to buy music.
You get a hard copy to back up your stuff.
But really, once you use a media player in your car, or even in your home, that just about cuts it for CD, which is so cumbersome by comparison.
Looks like teh end of an era, and you're 24 grand player is a harbringer of doom, BTW.
Stuff like this always pops up at the end of a formats life:1:

Florian

06-02-2008, 03:50 AM

My buddy in the US runs all top of the line boulder gear inc.the big new dcs stack. Ill ask him when he is getting this boulder. Would be nice to hear what he thinks of it.

Ajani

06-02-2008, 05:12 AM

Depends on what you call a "server".
Is it a usb HD with an entire collection on it in flac?
Thats what I use.
And the Ipod could be called a "server", really, so what if its portable?
I think the sudden death of CD has everybody surprized, its become such a part of the landscape, and IMHO, still the way to buy music.
You get a hard copy to back up your stuff.
But really, once you use a media player in your car, or even in your home, that just about cuts it for CD, which is so cumbersome by comparison.
Looks like teh end of an era, and you're 24 grand player is a harbringer of doom, BTW.
Stuff like this always pops up at the end of a formats life:1:

Good point... Just look at how many HT Receivers and minisystems (which make up the bulk of most home audio systems nowadays) have either USB input for accesing memory cards full of tracks etc OR have a simple minijack input for attaching an MP3 player/ipod dock.

Interestingly, I've seen quite a few new minisystems (on the websites of Philips and Sony) that have Hard Drives and wireless network connectivity.

With both High end audio companies (such as Krell, Musical Fidelity, Arcam, Naim) and mass market companies (such as Philips, Sony, Yamaha, Denon) embracing some form of music server approach (whether via ipod/internal hard drive/wireless streaming) I think things are gonna change fairly soon....

CD doesn't have to die though. It's easy to rip CDs to your Music Server and keep them as backups of your music collection.

mlsstl

06-02-2008, 05:16 AM

pixelthis wrote: "I think the sudden death of CD has everybody surprized, its become such a part of the landscape, and IMHO, still the way to buy music."
The CD sales figure for first quarter 2008 was in excess of 100 million units. Not sure that qualifies as "death", sudden or otherwise. Strikes me as more a question of whether it is a bad cold or a more serious pneumonia.

Sure sales are down, but CDs will continue to sell. There are several concurrent issues here.

1. Since the 1970s, whole album sales have predominated the market. However, before that "singles" (45s and 78s before that) were more popular even though the album length LP has been around since the late 1940s. For a number of reasons, single tracks have again become more popular. (A USA Today article on this noted in the 1990s that the record companies actually suppressed singles sales by not making them available at retail in order to drive album sales. With iTunes, Amazon, et al, this is no longer possible.)

2. Music is an industry that is driven on sales growth. They don't quite know what to do with flat or something like an 11% decline (2008 vs 2007). The instinct is to whine, moan and go to extraordinary lengths in protecting the old distribution model. Established companies always kick and scream when the paradigm changes on them.

3. They have to figure out what to do about illegal file sharing. The Wall St. Journal noted that there were perhaps a billion tracks traded illegally last year. RIAA lawsuits are not an effective long term answer; it just drives that activity further underground/offshore. The only permanent solution is to have products that are more attractive to buy. Hopefully that will include high resolution options for the serious listeners.

As for the "what is a server?" issue, I think I was reasonably clear about that. I said "but in spite of all the people I know who have iPods, I don't know a single other person (outside of forums such as this) who uses a music server in their home system."

By "home system" I mean a dedicated stereo or home theater system that puts forth a reasonable effort toward sound quality. That could include an iPod (if the material was saved at higher bit rates) but I wasn't including the Bose-type desktop players that are more akin to a table radio or boom box. I know a number of (mostly younger) people who have a lot of music saved on their computer, but virtually all of them simply play the music over the speakers that came with their computer. Again, other than the people I know online, I don't personally know any serious listeners who use any type of music server for their main home system. They are either playing CDs or LPs.

As noted before, we are in a period of transition as far as formats go. Only time will tell what reaches critical mass with the public as respects format and distribution.

Feanor

06-02-2008, 05:43 AM

...
The CD format is dying quickly - the first quarter CD sales are down 30% and the quarter before that it was already down substantially. The number one CD store in Western Canada has been closing several stores and were bankrupt a couple years back but got bought out - the new owner has not paid the bills though. Future Shop used to sell tons of cds but their classical section is completely gone and DVD and video game space has dwarfed the CD section.

Audiophiles have ZERO impact on the media. SACD would have completely failed but companies like Sony added SACD capability to entry level dvd players to prop up sales. They double encoded discs with both SACD and CD versions.

SACD only machines flopped and not enough people would buy SACD hardware just for software - SACD sales from people who wanted SACD is vastly lower than people who bought a CD that happened to have SACD encoding (maybe even without the owner's knowledge). A Sony rep mentioned that they were toying with dumping the technology - hardware and software in as early as 3 years. If Sony dumps it - it's over.

...:devil:

CD will tend to a niche medium (like SACD) but it will be around for a long time -- let's say a decade or more.

Not being mainly a classical listener, RGA, perhaps you don't appreciate the classical is entirely a niche market, yet new releases are continuous and showing no signs of petering out. For a hard-core classical listener like me there is very little selection for download and virtually none in lossless format. On top of that, most classical listners want the whole album and it is no less economical to buy the physical CD in general. Visiting classical music forums I'm struck by two things: (1) people are perhaps 95% of their music from CD, and (2) they rely almostly on Internet sources vs. local stores.

"Audiophiles have ZERO impact on the media"; well not much anyway. But a case can be made that, indeed, people do buy SACD hardware because of the software. Sony has effectively dumped SACD already yet there is still a slow, steady stream of SACD releases -- few these days are from Sony and there are a great many small labels. Certainly it is a niche market targeted by these releases: classical-loving (and to lessor extent, jazz-loving) audiophiles. Damn!! can't get much more niche than that.

E-Stat

06-02-2008, 08:39 AM

This product is probably 20 years too late. With softawre music taking over music hardware such as CDs, one would think why this product was conceived in this time.
The concept of music servers is hardly twenty years old. Its still not exactly common today although I use one for my wired in-house system. I greatly prefer the notion of separating the transport and DAC for that very technology based reason. For that change, I would likely prefer the excellent EMM Labs CDSD se and DCC2 combo. They sonically bettered my previous reference, the absolutely gorgeous and pricey ($57k) Burmester 969/970 combo and play SACD as well.

rw

GMichael

06-02-2008, 08:49 AM

For $24,000 couldn't they make it a little more attractive? It's not like it has a chance of sounding 100 times better than a $240 model. It could at least make you say, "Wow! That looks incredible!"

emaidel

06-02-2008, 10:03 AM

$24,000 for a CD player? Well, let's see now....

Add to that $40,000 for a pair of B&W Nautilus speakers, $98,000 for the required Mark Levinson tri-amplification (both of these prices are from the 90's - it's likely they're considerably higher today), $17,000 for two 12' speaker cables; $100,000 for a ClearAudio turntable, another $17,000 for a ClearAudio Cartridge; at least $6,000 for a step-up transformer, and after spending a "mere" $285,000 (which still doesn't include interconnects for the CD player, or various isolating bumpers, equipment racks, turntable bases, bricks and other stuff), suddenly realize a preamp is still needed, and the system doesn't even play SACD's!

I noticed also the CD player has a digital out, suggesting that, for even better performance (and additional costs) an external DAC should be used.

With prices as ridiculous as these, is it any wonder Joe and Mary Sixpack like Bose as much as they do?

basite

06-02-2008, 10:32 AM

...and after spending a "mere" $285,000 (which still doesn't include interconnects for the CD player, or various isolating bumpers, equipment racks, turntable bases, bricks and other stuff), suddenly realize a preamp is still needed, and the system doesn't even play SACD's!

there are various amps that sell for more than that entire system :D

a Wavac SH-833 goes for $350k, for example :)

a Transtortor Artus turntable will go for $300k

then a really nice preamp, which I haven't found yet in that priceclass (let's go with a Gryphon or so for now...)

and maybe a pair of Kharma Grande exquisite speakers, for a mere $220k? (IIRC)

ah, for cables, you could go for something like the TOTL transparent cables or so, or some top of the line MIT's...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

GMichael

06-02-2008, 10:37 AM

Don't forget to spend $10,000,000 on the right house to put them all in. All this equipment is useless without the right room to start with.

E-Stat

06-03-2008, 06:49 PM

Don't forget to spend $10,000,000 on the right house to put them all in. All this equipment is useless without the right room to start with.
Actually, all you need is a purpose built barn designed by Rives Audio. :)

Mike L's Nice Little System (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html)

rw

Feanor

06-04-2008, 08:59 AM

Actually, all you need is a purpose built barn designed by Rives Audio. :)

Mike L's Nice Little System (http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html)

rw

{Gasp! :yikes: } Bi-amping with Transparent opus cables -- there's $135K right there.

E-Stat

06-04-2008, 01:27 PM

{Gasp! :yikes: } Bi-amping with Transparent opus cables -- there's $135K right there.
The Rockport is a nifty table, too.

rw

RGA

06-05-2008, 01:05 PM

Feaner

You raise a good point. Vinyl was largely saved by classical and jazz lovers but also largely from DJ's who continued to buy hip hop, trance, dance and rap singles.

Generally speaking older people listen to classical and jazz and one could make the case that many of them are not as technically savy when it comes to computers, which may be why you don't see a lot of downloadable content - though you can certainly get the complete works of Beethoven or Mozart. Bittorrent through something like http://btjunkie.org/ can pretty much get you anyone's entire catalog within a day. typing in Beethoven you can download the 6 SACD set from Karajan for example. Your cost - FREE.

Illegal? - not in Canada

CD will stick around for a long while but many of the major CD outlets in my area are getting killed. A&B sound is a massive retailer in western Canada and they're big thing was CD sales - they are either going to completely close or become a home theater installer outlet. Future Shop was number 2 - the one in my town used to have 9 aisles of music - they;re down to 3 aisles and no classical or jazz in the store - only mainstream rock and popular music titles.

Younger people can download music and movies free and spend their minimum wage money on video games (though even many of these are downloadable). But they can always buy vinyl.

Vinyl making inroads still with young people -
http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2008/06/02/vinyl_goes_from_throwback_to_comeback/

http://www.bostonherald.com/entertainment/music/general/view.bg?articleid=1098202

And remember they don't track the sales of used vinyl. Music direct has been seeing junps in sales of cartridges and cleaning supplies of 300% but that is EACH year for the last 4 years. That's a significant trend. The other article noted that 8 out of 10 CD releases are seeing a vinyl release. Granted Vinyl pretty much has nowhere to go but up but CD's main thing was convenience and MP3 is far more convenient that lugging around CD's. Even RGA has gone MP3 player for traveling and I'm not a computer techy in any sense. But I know how to use bitorrent.

Feanor

06-05-2008, 05:56 PM

Monkey Mouse

06-07-2008, 08:29 AM

I am under the impression that CD will be around a long time. Think of it this way - no one can just go out and make a true vinyl copy of another record with their own equipment - that is something a label or pressing plant needs to do. Every computer made now can burn an exact copy of a CD (or replicate on the proper equipment), so this medium can grow on its own.

In terms of declining CD sales - blame the labels, the radio, MTV, and whatever else for forcing mediocre (at best) artists and songs on the public. As a former dance DJ I can tell you that that area has completely disappeared - not because of the rising price of imported vinyl (it is expensive), but because the genere died from over exposure of half ass junk from 2000 to 2002. CDs are the same animal, just a bigger animal takes longer to bleed itself out than a small one.

Digital is great for certain purposes - easier distribution, online downloads, easy to play in portables and cars.... But CD will eventually go the way of VHS - about 10 years after a suitable replacement becomes entrenched.

Paul

Auricauricle

06-19-2008, 10:11 AM

Call me a purist or a Luddite, but I still think ultimate purity is achieved by applying the CD directly to the ear.

Volume's a problem.....

bobsticks

06-19-2008, 01:46 PM

Call me a purist or a Luddite, but I still think ultimate purity is achieved by applying the CD directly to the ear.

Volume's a problem.....

Volume's not a problem if you spin it fast enough. And, use a specially trained shark to read the discs...all told, after capture, transport, housing and chum I saved about $3k.

O' course most municipalities make you post signage when such a creature is on the premises...

http://s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/wootdesigncontestentries/mmuhlenkamp/Sharks_with_Laser_Beams-w72pgv-d.jpg

Rich-n-Texas

06-19-2008, 07:04 PM

:lol: That's some funny sh!t sticks!

How much does the signage permit cost? Is it a state by state thing?

Auricauricle

06-20-2008, 06:48 AM

Volume's not a problem if you spin it fast enough. And, use a specially trained shark to read the discs...all told, after capture, transport, housing and chum I saved about $3k.

O' course most municipalities make you post signage when such a creature is on the premises...

http://s3-external-1.amazonaws.com/wootdesigncontestentries/mmuhlenkamp/Sharks_with_Laser_Beams-w72pgv-d.jpg

My wife (Shewhomustbeobeyed or Shewhomustbespayed) is having a fit over the chum bucket in the living room. Says she can't have company over, etc.

Not a bad idea come to think of it.

We're gonna need a bigger fishtank, Quint....

bobsticks

06-20-2008, 03:05 PM

I've solved the unsightly chum bucket problem---and for what it's worth I concur with your wife's aesthetic concerns---by designing a custom-job micro ottoman/fish container for the living quarters. Complete with the audiophile requisite cryogenically treated, copper lining and chum buffer the ottoman even has a six inch lcd screen to spotlight the shark's movements and tracklisting. More importantly it's comfortable as hell when the time for propping one's feet up and listening occurs.

Of course, that's where the budget went off the rails. The thing costs $24,000.

Auricauricle

06-21-2008, 02:38 PM

Too much bread for my budget, man.....I'll go for the Radio Shack Guppy 2000. Not quite as appealing, aesthetically speaking, but you can't beat the resolution.

Now, where's that darn grounding jack.....

thekid

06-22-2008, 03:04 AM

Tried it with my Jellyfish but they kept sinking to the bottom and the laser just sat there pointing up at the ceiling.

Those things just have an attitude problem and would rather just float around the tank stinging the cat when it reaches in the tank instead of earning their keep....frickin Cnidaria

Auricauricle

06-22-2008, 10:48 AM