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Bigmoney
05-25-2008, 01:39 PM
So as many of you already know I am rebuilding my stereo system. This time aiming for a warmer sound. So far, I have auditioned the b and w 685 and cm1. 650$ and 1000$ respectively. Before I make any decisions on which speaker I will purchase for my dorm room I would like to know what other bookshelf speakers you think beat out or compete with the b&w's under a grand new or used. That way hopefully I can find a dealer nearby to let me demo them. Some that have gotten good press in this price range are the ascend acoustics, nht classic three, dynaudio 52, wharfedale diamond 9.1 350 bucks!, and epos m5. On a few forums I have heard some say that dynaudio is the best speaker manufacturer period, therefore I have great interest in hearing the 52's. I currently have dm 602's s3 from b&w but they are huge and I am looking to down size for my dorm plus I find them a little on the bright sight.

Ajani
05-25-2008, 02:43 PM
My pick would be the CM1... but you really should also listen to the Paradigm Studio 20s (though they are supposed to bright according to reviews)..... Also consider the Monitor Audio RS1 for $600.

JohnMichael
05-25-2008, 03:41 PM
If Music Direct has any left I would consider the Mobile Fidelity OML 1's. I have a pair and I am very impressed. I would also check to see what Usher has in your price range. I have heard great things about their speakers.

Alex at SVS
05-25-2008, 03:41 PM
Another speaker, though it would be hard to audition unless you live in Ohio, you might want to consider are the new mbs bookshelf speakers from SVS.

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-mts01.cfm

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/speaker-product-reviews/two-channel-speakers/svsound-mts-01-floor-standing-speakers.html

(The towers use the same drivers and sound very similar to the bookshelf model)

We carry a 45 day return policy if you're not impressed. I use them and love them, but honestly I haven't had a ton of comparison to other products at this price range (the review in Secrets may be of interest) Our main advantage is being able to cut cost by selling direct. And the tweeters we use in these speakers are only found in one other bookshelf speaker to my knowledge, Salagar S210 ($7500/pair).

A downside though, is that we're currently out and you may have to wait a month till we get another shipment in.

Mark111867
05-25-2008, 04:16 PM
I'd put my vote in for the Revel Concerta M12. My second would be the B&W Cm1. Good Luck.

canuckle
05-25-2008, 04:26 PM
RC-10 (http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_rc10.htm)

RC-10 (less talk / prettier pictures ;) ) (http://magazine.playbackmag.net/playback/200802/?folio=206)

Bigmoney
05-25-2008, 06:00 PM
From what I gather, noone will dispute that b and w makes a great speaker but it seems a though that you pay a little extra for the name? And that there are better speakers at each price point......

jrhymeammo
05-25-2008, 06:23 PM
I really hate promoting and recommending gears I own, but I feel like I should pop this one in a mix:

Tyler Acoustics - Reference Monitor

You can find one used for $1200 direct from Ty with free shipping.
They are defintely worth saving up for, and you are only $200 away. You can always spend $1k on a pair of speakers with $50 drivers. What you get is $500/pr tweets and $400/pr drivers.
I think their rock solid cabinets and HQ cross-over is worth $300.
Scanspeak Revelator tweeters sound really smooth and have ability to sparke some of the highest notes.
At your price range, it is almost impossilbe to get a pair that will play "musical" bass. Of course they will all be toneful to their own, but fo all the sub $4000 bookshelf speakers I've heard, they are very well rounded. I can listen to them for hours and hours without any fatigue.

Maybe you can find a person near you who has a pair.
http://www.tyleracoustics.com/home_demo.html

just somem to think about...

JRA

blackraven
05-26-2008, 10:34 AM
For a warm sound I would take the NHT Classic 3's over the B&W's any day of the week.
They have excellent mid bass and very good bass for a bookshelf. I auditoned them and compared them to the B&W 685's, a few paradigm studio monitors and dynaudio's and there was no comparison in warmth, bass and a sense of fullness to the music with the NHT's. The B&W's did have better high frequency sound, but paired with the right amp and CDP the NHT's are great. You should give them an audition and see if you can take them home for a trial.

In comparing the dynaudio's to the 685's head to head on Rotel equipment, the 685's had much better sound.

I think that when people audition speakers they tend to lean towards slightly brighter sounding speakers when they audition them in the store, but when they get them home and listen to them for hours they tend to be disappointed.

Bigmoney
05-26-2008, 10:46 AM
Do you think pairing rotel equipment with the nhts would be nice and possibly help out the lack of high frequency in the nht.

Ajani
05-26-2008, 04:57 PM
From what I gather, noone will dispute that b and w makes a great speaker but it seems a though that you pay a little extra for the name? And that there are better speakers at each price point......

Ummm... I don't think that B&W charge a premium for the name (not compared to most other reputable speakers manufacturers anyway)... I think whether you find better speakers at each price point is more a matter of personal preference.

blackraven
05-26-2008, 06:18 PM
I think the NHT's are a very good match with the Rotel. And the NHT's dont really lack high frequency, its just that they are not as bright as the B&W's. I found the treble in the NHT's very smooth and maybe just a little rolled off compared to the 685's. The store that I listened to the NHT's sold Paradigm speakers, and Rotel, jolida, Integra, Parasound, and Anthem amps. They had the NHT's paired with the Rotels, Integra and jolida amps.

Give the NHT's a listen, you can pick up the Classic 3's for $650.

Gab
05-26-2008, 07:30 PM
wow, so many good suggestions, some i am not familiar, well for warm sound...

dont go to rotel for warm sound , go for tubes, i bought a dared vp 845, its warm but not in the bass, the bass is perfect for disco :) my best match is the eposm5 and a tube amp, maybe the dared vp 845, its costy so rega brio is a better match ( ss but still .. i approve:)

i only listened the epos m5 with audio research source and creek destiny (8 k in total lol), its warm but ! it lacks 3d and realism... thats the best you can get out of the m5,

So, the perfect match is :
-rega brio
-epos m5 or els3, go listen to this combination : it could go just perfect

the b&w are very good ones, their small towers around 1000 $ are real bargains and you could prefer them to the epos m5 for their more flat sound but matching amp can be more tricky i listened with cambridge audio and cambridge is not warm sounding,so look for other people advices if you buy b&w.

Bigmoney
05-26-2008, 08:14 PM
Let me ask you this. I too, like the b and w sound, but find them a little bright. I am inclined to buy from my dealer, so that I can get a new speaker and hear it first. He is really the only hifi dealer around and has helped me out a lot. Hence my loyalty to him. He only sells b and w though. If I was to buy either the 685 or the cm1, will pairing the speakers I choose with warmer equipment ( marantz 8001) make the speakers sound warmer, or is the only real way to get warm sound by starting with a warm speaker to begin with.

blackraven
05-26-2008, 08:52 PM
The 8001 will give you a warmer sound. Starting with a warmer speaker is best, but the 8001 has a very warm sound and just may give you what you are looking for. It cetainly warmed up the sound of my system when I auditioned one in home for 3 weeks. If you can audition the 8001 in home then give it a try. It really is a great CDP and has an analog sound compared to other CDP's. That HDAM tech really gives it its unique sound.

The only thing I dont know is if it will tone down the treble of your 602's. You can always do that with the tone control of your preamp (I can hear the gasps now from all the audio purists).

RGA
05-27-2008, 12:12 AM
Tone controls only adjust the level of the treble - they can;t change the inherent sound of the signature of the tweeter - if it sounds etchy it always will be and no tone control can fix it.

BigMoney

You asked which speakers would be better - that depends on you. Frankly though your hesitation on buying should tell you something. If the speaker truly impressed you then you would not be here asking.

The old 600 series was good for the money but it's not for everyone.

Speakers from Gershman Acoustics, PMC, Audio Note, Dynaudio, Tannoy, Sonus Faber, ProAc off the top of my head I would take over comparable and more expensive B&Ws. One example would be The Audio Note AX Two at $700 and IMO it's a better speaker than the N805 at more than 3 times the price. But the N805 looks better.

Make sure you get an in home trial for a weekend - then you'll know if you can live with the B&Ws.

Duds
05-27-2008, 07:15 AM
Von Schweikert VR-1

whistlepig59
05-27-2008, 01:54 PM
200.00 more and you get a great 2 way. Epos12.2 I run a creek classic and tara cables. it brings out the warmth you would swear you have a bigger woofer in there and they look great.

Ajani
05-27-2008, 02:31 PM
Let me ask you this. I too, like the b and w sound, but find them a little bright. I am inclined to buy from my dealer, so that I can get a new speaker and hear it first. He is really the only hifi dealer around and has helped me out a lot. Hence my loyalty to him. He only sells b and w though. If I was to buy either the 685 or the cm1, will pairing the speakers I choose with warmer equipment ( marantz 8001) make the speakers sound warmer, or is the only real way to get warm sound by starting with a warm speaker to begin with.

Option 1: Audition the Marantz/B&W combo at your dealer

Option 2: Do a 30 day in-home audition of another brand of speakers using one of the numerous websites that support it: Eg. Musicdirect, audio advisor etc...

Also, why would you want to buy the 685? I doubt that it will be much of an upgrade from your existing 600 series speakers... Save your cash and buy something better later on...

Bigmoney
05-27-2008, 06:57 PM
Well, I like the 685s because they are smaller and supposed to be much better I heard than the previous 600 series, plus they look great. I really liked the clarity the cm1's had to offer but I am a little worried about there bass extension from such a small speaker. Anyone compared these two speakers.

dogorman
05-27-2008, 07:49 PM
Well permit me to toss a monkey wrench squarely into this discussion with two words:

Linn Katans.

Thank you and good night.

RGA
05-27-2008, 08:23 PM
Yeah the Linn Katans are quite nice - off the top of my head means some get missed.

If bass is important - and it is then I would take the 600 series floorstander over a CM series standmount.

Indeed, after the 600 series from B&W I would not be buying a B&W.

But this is all the help I can provide so I hope you enjoy the speaker you end up deciding upon.

blackraven
05-27-2008, 08:43 PM
BM, why dont you look at the B$W 684's. I auditioned them along with the 683's, 685's, 686's and dynaudio. The floor standers really had the edge in bass and sound stage and presence. I know you are concerned about size, but with bookshelf speaks you need speaker stands which will take up just as much space. When I was in college my dorm room was small but I had big Altec Lansing 3 way speakers with a 10" woofer. We didnt care that it took up alot of space, we just cared about the sound and parties!

audio amateur
05-28-2008, 03:39 AM
Well, I like the 685s because they are smaller and supposed to be much better I heard than the previous 600 series, plus they look great. I really liked the clarity the cm1's had to offer but I am a little worried about there bass extension from such a small speaker. Anyone compared these two speakers.
Keep in mind the 685 are not much smaller than yours, on top of that they are deeper (which I like personally). I'm not sure how much 'better' they are.

sk456
05-28-2008, 09:33 PM
Didnt anyone find the 685 to be too bright ? I personally didnt like them at all.. CM1 is so much nicer IMO..

Bigmoney
05-29-2008, 07:30 AM
I think I have decided to go with the ascend acoustics sierra 1's great reviews, warm sound, sells direct to cut down costs and some have been as bold to say they sound has good as 4,000 dollar bookshelves. PLus they reach down to 39 hz before dropping 3 dbs. I can always return them and pay shipping and restocking but they seem like great speakers at an extraordinary value. Does anyone have experience with these or have any commment on the speakers I have chosen?

JohnMichael
05-29-2008, 04:35 PM
I think I have decided to go with the ascend acoustics sierra 1's great reviews, warm sound, sells direct to cut down costs and some have been as bold to say they sound has good as 4,000 dollar bookshelves. PLus they reach down to 39 hz before dropping 3 dbs. I can always return them and pay shipping and restocking but they seem like great speakers at an extraordinary value. Does anyone have experience with these or have any commment on the speakers I have chosen?




I own a pair of Ascend CBM 170SE's. I considered the Sierra's before I bought the Mo-Fi OML 1's. I have not heard the Sierra's but the 170's were very forward. The speakers were detailed and nicely balanced but the front row perspective I found tiring. I will look forward to your impressions.

Hyfi
05-29-2008, 06:15 PM
So as many of you already know I am rebuilding my stereo system. This time aiming for a warmer sound. So far, I have auditioned the b and w 685 and cm1. 650$ and 1000$ respectively. Before I make any decisions on which speaker I will purchase for my dorm room I would like to know what other bookshelf speakers you think beat out or compete with the b&w's under a grand new or used. That way hopefully I can find a dealer nearby to let me demo them. Some that have gotten good press in this price range are the ascend acoustics, nht classic three, dynaudio 52, wharfedale diamond 9.1 350 bucks!, and epos m5. On a few forums I have heard some say that dynaudio is the best speaker manufacturer period, therefore I have great interest in hearing the 52's. I currently have dm 602's s3 from b&w but they are huge and I am looking to down size for my dorm plus I find them a little on the bright sight.

With the right amp, the Dynaudio 42s are a great choice. It has been said that they sound a bit better than the 52s and for the price dif, I didn't hear any reason not to go with the 42s. When placed on top of the 82s and played through my Stratos, the only thing lacking is the deep bass....nothing else. I got a demo pair used for a weekend at the last CES for $600 in Rosewood.

Fabulous speaker for the money. If you go with Danes, be sure to have some clean high current to drive them or they will underperform.

Mash
06-08-2008, 09:48 PM
and check out the Mackie Active Powered HR824 Mk2 speakers.
Active = feedback controlled (the feedback control removes driver and amp distortions)
Powered = amps are built in.

Maybe you can find a musician's store in your area that caters to people who build recording/mixing studios. Otherwise, check Musician's Friend and/or Music123:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mackie-HR824mk2?sku=601066
http://www.music123.com/Mackie-HR824mk2-8-75--Active-High-Resolution-Studio-Reference-Monitor-601066-i1175384.Music123
Up through May 2008 these Mackies were $600 each! But rest assured, we DO NOT have inflation!

If you go this route, all you will need is a (tube) preamp.
I bot a slightly-used CJ-10B on ebay for $600.
or maybe you want something a bit different:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-BlueTube-DP-Stereo-Microphone-Preamp?sku=184132

Bigmoney
06-10-2008, 08:19 AM
Well, I just purchased the audio refinement complete integrated. Although its only 50 watts, I love it compared to my rotel separates. A very musical sound that is just so much fun to listen to, and get this my b and ws dont hurt my ears anymore. But, I do still need to get a new pair of bookshelves. I think it is important that I pick a speaker easy enough to drive with the audio refinement. Any reccommendations for a amp of this low power, and within my price range? By the way if anyone has any questions about my impressions on this amp feel free to PM me.:5:

Ajani
06-10-2008, 03:14 PM
Well, I just purchased the audio refinement complete integrated. Although its only 50 watts, I love it compared to my rotel separates. A very musical sound that is just so much fun to listen to, and get this my b and ws dont hurt my ears anymore. But, I do still need to get a new pair of bookshelves. I think it is important that I pick a speaker easy enough to drive with the audio refinement. Any reccommendations for a amp of this low power, and within my price range? By the way if anyone has any questions about my impressions on this amp feel free to PM me.:5:

Based on my experience with Audio Refinement, I'd highly recommend skipping the bookshelves and trying a pair of Monitor Audio RS6. They are efficient speakers (90db) and IMO sound really good with the AR.

Bigmoney
06-10-2008, 03:51 PM
Why skip the bookshelves arent bookshelves under a grand going to be better than floorstanders under a grand anyway. There must be efficcient bookshelves out there. It would be hard for me to justify buying a pair of floorstanders sicne Ill be moving around a lot and from what I can tell the MA is fairly big. Of course though, sound quality comes first. Your proposition doesnt make sense to me, than again that may very well be do to my ignorance. Just looking for an explanation.............not what I was expecting to hear.

JohnMichael
06-10-2008, 04:58 PM
Now that you have a french integrated amp you might want to consider a french speaker n'cest pas? The Focal Chorus 807V should be a good match and has received excellent reviews. I would also look at the Triangle speakers, also french.

I agree with you that since your location may be changing book shelves are more easily integrated into a variety of rooms. I prefer stand mount speakers at a price point because it is easier to make a small enclosure rigid than a large floorstander. My OML 1's cabinets are braced horizontally and vertically. It is nice hearing more from the quality drivers and less from the cabinets.

Bigmoney
06-10-2008, 06:06 PM
I have heard the focals to be slightly bright, although i like the 92 db sensitivity. My audio reinement matched with my b and w 602's does not sound bright since I

Bigmoney
06-10-2008, 06:07 PM
switched from the rotels. Do yout think the focals are brighter than the b and ws. If not I presume I will not find them too bright in my set up. Sorry about the above post, just read both of these posts as if they were connected. Accidentally hit send.

Scott Carr
06-10-2008, 08:21 PM
I have owned and listened to countless monitor and floorstanding speakers and the Onix Reference 1 is my favourite. I started with a pair of Kef C20's in my teens as my first step into hi-fi. Over the years I have owned Paradigms, PSBs, Athena Technologies, Kef and Polk. I have heard offerings from Acoustic Energy, Monitor Audio, Klipsch, Energy amongst others I can't remember.
The Onix Reference 1 is truly an excellent monitor. I compared it directly with the Paradigm Studio 20 V.4. They were very close in the upper and midrange but the Ref 1 trumped it in the bass. I have two pairs of the Ref 1s. One in an upstairs office 10' * 15' and the other in the basement 11' * 27' opening to hallway. In each case I use the monitors without a subwoofer. They have enough bass for music and movies. This is the first time that I am content with my speakers that I am not searching for better. They sell new for $1200 or $1500 piano finish on AV123. You can find them for less in b-stock or used. Good luck!

anamorphic96
06-10-2008, 11:39 PM
Didnt anyone find the 685 to be too bright ? I personally didnt like them at all.. CM1 is so much nicer IMO..

I found them to be bright as well and traded them in for the Dynaudio Audience 42's.

The 42's are very nice for under a 1000.00. Deals might be had as well since the new Excite series is coming out.

Ajani
06-11-2008, 03:10 AM
Why skip the bookshelves arent bookshelves under a grand going to be better than floorstanders under a grand anyway.

Nope, there's no guarantee of that. It's like thinking that a $1500 speaker must sound better than a $900 one. Also, the question is whether you prefer just good high and mid frequencies (typical of a bookshelf) or whether you also want decent bass response (floorstander).


There must be efficcient bookshelves out there. It would be hard for me to justify buying a pair of floorstanders sicne Ill be moving around a lot and from what I can tell the MA is fairly big.

Focal should have efficient bookshelves and I'm sure other brands probably do. The MA are actually quite small, just about 33 inches high and about 8 inches wide, so they'll take up no more space than a pair of bookshelves on stands.



Of course though, sound quality comes first. Your proposition doesnt make sense to me, than again that may very well be do to my ignorance. Just looking for an explanation.............not what I was expecting to hear.

The main reason for the suggestion is as I mentioned that I liked the sound of AR and MA... if You want a bookshelf from MA, your options would be either the RS1 for $600 or the GS10 for $1500.

drseid
06-11-2008, 04:38 AM
Lots's of good suggestions already...

The Tylers would be my first choice (you could only get them for 1K if you bought them used though), but the Linn Katans and Von Schweikert VR-1s and the Onyx Reference 1s are all very good choices that I would have on my own short list of any "speakers under $1K" selection. A few others to consider are the Opera Audio Eric-1s I bought for my office system (absolutely love 'em), and I believe Green Mountain Audio has a good pair of sub 1K speakers. I also like the 3/5s from Spendor.

---Dave

Bigmoney
06-11-2008, 05:03 PM
How much can the tylers be found for second hand? I just checked and they seemed to be over a grand. Outside my budget.

drseid
06-12-2008, 04:47 AM
How much can the tylers be found for second hand? I just checked and they seemed to be over a grand. Outside my budget.

If bought directly from Tyler the Taylo Reference Monitors are indeed over a grand used, but frequently you can find them used on audiogon.com from other sellers for about 1K/pr.

Just watch the Gon closely for about a month and you are sure to find some if you choose to go that direction...

---Dave