New Harris Poll bashes Blu ray!

[ldgibson76]

Well, it seems according to the latest Harris Interactive Poll, that Blu ray still has an uphill battle despite winning the format war.

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/new_blu_ray_poll_bashes_technology_again/

Now granted, there were only a little over 2500 people surveyed. Do you think that this poll is an accurate barometer of blu ray's current and future market penetration in the US?

Regards.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If this poll came from anyone else, I would be concerned. However Harris has been trashed time and time again from other survey companies because their survey's appear to be agenda driven, and when you track down the sources that commission the surveys, they are usually the competition hell bent on tearing another competitor down.

1. I do agree the public is satisfied with DVD, however will they continue to be satisfied when the studios start to concentrate on the bluray disc, adding value content that cannot be found on DVD? We haven't gotten that far yet, so this can change people's perceptions.

2. This survey was taken at the lowest sales point of the post holiday season. I suspect this was purposeful as to cast as dark a light as possible on bluray as they can. Had they had taken this during the lead up to the holiday season, there is no doubt the results would be different.

3. Once again the "Toshiba effect" has reared its ugly head. Because of what Toshiba has done with pricing of their players(much the dismay of their bottom line) there perception is that HD movie players are cheap, and bluray's prices are too high. While DVD had its negative detractors, player pricing was not really an issue because nobody was undercutting the price of players. There was no format war, so price perceptions did not exist.

While I do think Bluray has its issues(I would like to see more A list titles out, and more consumer education, Disney and Panasonics tour is not enough). They need to be in BB and Circuit City doing demos every weekend. What I am seeing is that most folks are waiting for Bonus view players to hit the market en mass. I do see that the market for 1.0 players is losing steam, but the market for 1.1 players is beginning to really really boom.

Just to give context to what I am saying, Harris predicted that HD DVD would win the format war. Harris predicted that HD DVD would be the first to a million players. Harris said that Toshiba was making money on each player(the amount of their losses diputes that). Harris predicted that Warner would go HD DVD, and Fox would follow them. (Fox had no intention on defecting to a less protected format, and a few of us knew that Warner was leaning blu at the time)

[Rich-n-Texas]

The problem I have Id is clicking on links posted here on the forum by spammers (a.k.a cmckenney). Electronic House is not a sponsor of this site AFAIK, in fact I'd say it's a competitor of this site's parent. On well regulated/moderated sites, that's not allowed. I've complained about this guy before but it seemed to fall on deaf ears. In ANY of his posts (except for the ones where he's defending his motives) the link is included. Nothing personal against you though.

I'd say... as soon as us consumers start getting hammered with TV commercial after TV commercial about the virtues of Blu-ray, that's when sales will take off. It's the American way and whatnot. We're all just blind sheep in the eyes of Marketing. :rolleyes:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The problem I have Id is clicking on links posted here on the forum by spammers (a.k.a cmckenney). Electronic House is not a sponsor of this site AFAIK, in fact I'd say it's a competitor of this site's parent. On well regulated/moderated sites, that's not allowed. I've complained about this guy before but it seemed to fall on deaf ears. In ANY of his posts (except for the ones where he's defending his motives) the link is included. Nothing personal against you though.

I'd say... as soon as us consumers start getting hammered with TV commercial after TV commercial about the virtues of Blu-ray, that's when sales will take off. It's the American way and whatnot. We're all just blind sheep in the eyes of Marketing. :rolleyes:


Baaaaaaaaa to you Rich dude!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Sony flunkie.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Sony flunkie.

High falut'en Rich person who drinks oil for breakfast:prrr:

[GMichael]

MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm..... High def........................
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm............ Cute girls in high def...............

Mmmmmm mmmmm mmmmmmmmmm:arf:

[ldgibson76]

MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm..... High def........................
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm............ Cute girls in high def...............

Mmmmmm mmmmm mmmmmmmmmm:arf:

There you go again, flaunting your "Pimpish" ways!:20: Wave your pimp flag!

[GMichael]

And GM manages to throw yet another, otherwise good thread, into the gutter.

[kexodusc]

I personally believe that if BluRay wasn't going to be a hit with consumers eventually, it wouldn't be where it's already at, ahead of where DVD was at this far into its life cycle.
That's rather remarkable really - DVD was the first real mass-market consumer ready video upgrade in almost 20 years for most of the world (laser disc didn't get near the exposure for whatever reason, I think the DVD was seen more as the CD equivalent for video which helped)...BluRay is just evolutionary and you wouldn't expect it to have as much appeal as it already does, but the market is proving the naysayers wrong.

[bobsticks]

MMMMMMMmmmmmmmm..... High def........................
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm............ Cute girls in high def...............

Mmmmmm mmmmm mmmmmmmmmm:arf:

Pimps Up!! Hoes Down!! West Siiiiiddddeeee....


3630

[bobsticks]

I personally believe that if BluRay wasn't going to be a hit with consumers eventually, it wouldn't be where it's already at, ahead of where DVD was at this far into its life cycle.
That's rather remarkable really - DVD was the first real mass-market consumer ready video upgrade in almost 20 years for most of the world (laser disc didn't get near the exposure for whatever reason, I think the DVD was seen more as the CD equivalent for video which helped)...BluRay is just evolutionary and you wouldn't expect it to have as much appeal as it already does, but the market is proving the naysayers wrong.

Ditto.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Pimps Up!! Hoes Down!! West Siiiiiddddeeee....


3630

Gimme my money.......should I say it? I dent know hoes had their own store. I know they have their own real estate, its called the "Ho Stro". :yesnod:

[Mr Peabody]

The poll says 9% of the people plan to go Blu in the next year BUT did anyone stop to think the other 91% may already be in the Blu, so no need to go where you are already at. Yah?

My problem with ho's is I can't find one that takes a check.

[Smokey]

The poll says 9% of the people plan to go Blu in the next year BUT did anyone stop to think the other 91% may already be in the Blu, so no need to go where you are already at. Yah?


Is that some type of reverse psychology :D

I really think this type of polls keep popping up until price of Bluray drop to certain comparable performance/price level against DVD. Next year we probably will have a better handle on Bluray as cheaper price players (Sony promised a $200 player) stock store shelves.


My problem with ho's is I can't find one that takes a check.

You need to go uptown http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch10.gif

[pixelthis]

Is that some type of reverse psychology :D

I really think this type of polls keep popping up until price of Bluray drop to certain comparable performance/price level against DVD. Next year we probably will have a better handle on Bluray as cheaper price players (Sony promised a $200 player) stock store shelves.



You need to go uptown http://emoticons4u.com/smoking/rauch10.gif


Accorrding to sir talky its that darn Toshiba and their "TOSHIBA EFFECT"
DAGNAB THEM for selling players at a reasonable price!!
Basically Sony and others are trying to get the consumer to pay for the "format" war by selling them overpriced players.
most of them arent interested in getting fleeced, even if they had the money, which they dont thanks to food and gas prices.
DVD was about a five mile "jump" Blu about half a mile, most are interested in utility for the price, in other words they wont pay a small fortune for a new toy if they dont see a cost/benefit ratio in line with reality
And its an even harder sell for those of us who know that a Blu player is basically a
DVD player with a blu laser and some improved software.
A PS3 is 399, why pay 400 for a player alone?
Heres an idea, sell a PS3 with the game trash gone anbd nothing left but the player.
AND PRICE IT ACCORDINGLY.
I have repeatly said that people and the market dont give a tinkers damn about what the "studios" and manufacturers "want".
they ARE NOT going to pay 400$ for a toy that is a (to them) slight advantage over what they have already.
I have access to HD movies on VOD, and regular cable.
THE PICTURE MAY NOT BE AS FANTASTIC AS bLU, but its still darn nice.
I CARE MORE ABOUT MUSIC THAN MOVIES anyway,
so I will wait.
Which should concern the "blu barons" more than anything.
Because if the few who really care about every incremental increase in q are
waiting, joe sixpack certainly is.
A 200 buck player is doable, AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yeah Pixie, the players price was so reasonable that the company lost nearly one billion dollars in supporting it. Eventually the format lost the war. Great business plan:rolleyes:

I just love how pixie devalues BR into nothing more than a fancy DVD player with new software. How does one know this if they don't own one? Here is a person who is an expert on everything he never owned. Jeeze, I'll take his word for it:1:

He says nobody is willing to pay $400 for a toy. Well, they are selling quite well, can't keep any in stock anywhere. Panasonics new player(priced at $599) has already sold out their first shipment. So if nobody is buying them, and they are being shipped, were are they going? Are the little mice from Ratatouille taking them?:1:

When Pixie says an image is fantastic from VOD, know that it probably looks like trash. Anyone who does not calibrate their display, and watches movies in bright light has no idea what a good picture is.:1:

How does a person with a uncalibrated television, and who has never own a single BR disc, a single BR player make a determination on the quality of the format? Sure, he knows everything, I'll take his word for it. Riiiight :1:

I do not think ANYONE in the bluray camp is worried about a pixietightwad not buying a player. I am sure the format will go on just fine if he doesn't. :1:

I am really glad the BDA ISN'T listening to pixiea$$. If they did, the market for bluray players and disc would have been like the market for HD DVD. Decimated! :1:

[filecat13]

The future of Blu-ray, like any consumer product is of no direct concern to me. The product will either produce revenue that satisfies these who produce and sell it, or it won't. If it establishes a sustainable market of hardware and software, and if it produces experiences I'm interested in (at this point BR Audio) at prices that entice me, I'll join in; if not, it's fine with me if others find pleasure in the BR experience.

I do not think that the Harris results "bash" Blu-ray, so it's probably a bit dramatic to phrase it that way. The survey measures some things and doesn't measure others. It may be pop culture analysis more than pure research; however, it does not strike me as a hit piece.

Honestly, I'm not sure why we care so much about any product's success or failure. The market will decide. For every failure, there is always another attempt, another new product, another plan to open or exploit a market.

That's business. If a large corporation can't make something work, a small niche company often can. Or sometimes, the market just doesn't have the desire and the product/category goes away, only to be replaced by a different product with a different angle.

"Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss; we won't get fooled again."

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The future of Blu-ray, like any consumer product is of no direct concern to me. The product will either produce revenue that satisfies these who produce and sell it, or it won't. If it establishes a sustainable market of hardware and software, and if it produces experiences I'm interested in (at this point BR Audio) at prices that entice me, I'll join in; if not, it's fine with me if others find pleasure in the BR experience.

I do not think that the Harris results "bash" Blu-ray, so it's probably a bit dramatic to phrase it that way. The survey measures some things and doesn't measure others. It may be pop culture analysis more than pure research; however, it does not strike me as a hit piece.

Honestly, I'm not sure why we care so much about any product's success or failure. The market will decide. For every failure, there is always another attempt, another new product, another plan to open or exploit a market.

That's business. If a large corporation can't make something work, a small niche company often can. Or sometimes, the market just doesn't have the desire and the product/category goes away, only to be replaced by a different product with a different angle.

"Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss; we won't get fooled again."

Filecat, you have to know the history of Harris. During the format war, Harris produced very negative surveys regarding bluray that were completely counter to all of the other survey's in the field. When asked who commissioned the survey's they took, it was Toshiba. Harris has never had one good thing to say about bluray, and it is apparent to me they have an agenda. The question I have to Harris is, why?

[ldgibson76]

Filecat, you have to know the history of Harris. During the format war, Harris produced very negative surveys regarding bluray that were completely counter to all of the other survey's in the field. When asked who commissioned the survey's they took, it was Toshiba. Harris has never had one good thing to say about bluray, and it is apparent to me they have an agenda. The question I have to Harris is, why?

"Sir T"

You are definitely grading this on a curve! :skep:
For the number of polls regarding sales totals of software and standalone players, that have given blu ray a positive spin, there have been just as many on the opposite side of that spectrum. If you "Google" the inquiry regarding blu ray sales in the first qtr. of '08, there's just as many polls stating how good and how bad the sales figures are for the format. It's not only the Harris Poll that states that the numbers are below expectation due to OMG:yikes: , the market conditions!, But many (consumers) do not see the significant improvement on picture quality over dvd, or if they do, it's minor and therefore offering no justification for buying a new "dvd player", or buying into another format for $400.00, or they refuse to acknowledge it because it's just not that important in the overall scheme of things. Don't you think there is a possibility that the American public has learned it's lesson by now regarding the pricing of technology?

Just like in car purchasing, there was a learning curve. The average car buyer for decades was a homerun waiting to happen, (JACKPOT written on the forehead in neon!). But because of information/internet, the ability for a car salesman to make a decent living is nearly impossible. The consumer has access to info (invoice prices). Obtaining that info was at one time unheard of! Today, consumers walk into showrooms with 5 or 6 consumer mags, invoices, and access to information that most salespeople aren't even privy to!

Now let's take the electronics market. The turntable, the eight track, the cassette player,the VCR, the CD player, the dvd player, even the laser disc player, and lets not forget the software, all eventually goes down in price. Some faster than others, but they do come down. You can put the flat panel in there also! So the US consumer has by now figured it out. Wait until it drops down to a comfort level, which in this economy seems to be $200.00 and then take the plunge. That's not solely Toshiba's doing either! There are a number of factors dictating the demand for that pricing standard, starting with at least 7-8 years of decent dvd players being priced under $200.

That being said.....I believe that it all depends on where you go to get your information.
And you don't think bluray.com shows a little bias in it's opinion of what's going on in the market place?! Of course they do. The BDA could be near bankruptcy and bluray.com wouldn't admit it until they had no other choice!

I dare you to respond! Sir T aka "The Oracle! of all things Blu ray"!:biggrin5:

Regards.

[filecat13]

I'm skeptical that Toshiba would spend money to do a survey in April when they discontinued their competing product in February. Looking at the survey, I see no indication of who was involved in sponsoring the survey if, in fact, anyone was involved.

The methodology is covered in some detail with all the expected disclaimers required by the NCPC, which is to say one can feel free to accept or reject its conclusions. It's just not worth getting excited about.

[pixelthis]

Yeah Pixie, the players price was so reasonable that the company lost nearly one billion dollars in supporting it. Eventually the format lost the war. Great business plan:rolleyes:

IT was, in fact it had me thinking about buying a HD.
Two things pushed me away, the lousey track record I had with tosh products, and the fact that everybody on the PLANET had already chosen Blu.
If the "format war" had even been close I MIGHT HAVE VERY WELL GONE hd


I just love how pixie devalues BR into nothing more than a fancy DVD player with new software. How does one know this if they don't own one? Here is a person who is an expert on everything he never owned. Jeeze, I'll take his word for it:1:

I never owned a front projector but studied them for years.
AND THE people who work on jet airplanes usually dont have a 767 parked in the garage.
DVD players are CD players with a shorter wavelenght laser and a different feature set.
Blu has lasers with an even shorter wavelenght, which was quite an acomplishment.
But the mechanism that blu uses isnt that much different from a DVD player.
Couldnt be, beCAUSE it plays DVDs.
You think people havent figured this out?



He says nobody is willing to pay $400 for a toy. Well, they are selling quite well, can't keep any in stock anywhere. Panasonics new player(priced at $599) has already sold out their first shipment. So if nobody is buying them, and they are being shipped, were are they going? Are the little mice from Ratatouille taking them?:1:

Sell a caddy for a million bucks and someone is going to be nuts enough to buy one.
So its raining but can the rain support the crops.
BLU is selling sure, but are they selling enough?




When Pixie says an image is fantastic from VOD, know that it probably looks like trash. Anyone who does not calibrate their display, and watches movies in bright light has no idea what a good picture is.:1:

I watch a movie in dim light, usually, but its nice to have the option of not having to do so, a option your obsolete system doesnt give you.
And a set that isnt as finicky as a CRT dinosaur doesnt require that much calibration,
YOU ARE LIKE THE GUY WITH A carburetor who doesnt understand why a guy with fuel injection can go so long without a tune up.
AND what does this have tro do with blu ray?



How does a person with a uncalibrated television, and who has never own a single BR disc, a single BR player make a determination on the quality of the format? Sure, he knows everything, I'll take his word for it. Riiiight :1:

THANK YOU.
A blu player is very good, in fact I will buy one sometime(maybe)
But only because I like to collect movies.
If I just watched, VOD would be fine.
What the BDA and teh clueless types who populate it dont seem to GET
is that the paradigm has changed.
This isnt the age of videotape, where VHS "won" and beta was vanquished.
A hard copy disc format is for one market...COLLECTORS.
And while BLU HAS a small window to become established , its a very small window


I do not think ANYONE in the bluray camp is worried about a pixietightwad not buying a player. I am sure the format will go on just fine if he doesn't. :1:

Undoubtedly, but the point is that in spite of what you say I am a quality FREAK,
and have the closet full of laserdiscs to prove it.
and the fact that I am in NO hurry to run out and grab a blu ray player might not concern you but it does concern those who know me, because they think that if I am in no hurry, why should they be?
One would be nice, but instead I am going to buy discs, and that way I will have a rather large collection when players become reasonably priced.
I have been a pioneer plenty of times on new formats (S-VHS, VHS-HIFI, LASERDISC, ETC) and have the arrows in my back to prove it.
No arrows this time


I am really glad the BDA ISN'T listening to pixiea$$. If they did, the market for bluray players and disc would have been like the market for HD DVD. Decimated! :1:

NO, they are listening to nattering know-nothings such as yourself, who are encourgaging
them to go with Apples business model, which conseded the world to the much more inferiour windows based PC.
And delivered the videotape market to VHS in spite of BETAS obvious superiority.
So it looks like Sony is going to repeat the same monumental mistake in a thirty
five year span.
Botique players when most want a basic movie machine.
players are nothing you give those away, you will make a few bucks on teh first ones but eventually economies of scale will drive profit margins razor thin.
SOFTWARE is where the real money is, you need players in peoples hands to sell it tho.
And at 400 bucks in a recession that is really a depression you arent gonna put that many out there:1:

[ldgibson76]

I just read the June issue of "Home Theater Magazine"-'Hook me up column: "In Memoriam: HD DVD by Joshua Zyber.
The article lamely explains the how and why's of the demise of HD DVD. It's certainly a watered-down explanation of why HD DVD lost the war!

That being said, I must admit that you were WAY:yikes: ahead of the curve. I know this is old news, but I believe that I need to acknowledged this. That way, I can continue to be a "troublemaker" with a little credibility!:biggrin5:

You get your "Due Res-spect Mon!":5:

Regards.

BTW, you have to admit that "Pixel" is funny at times! The 'airplane mechanic/767 in the garage' comeback was :lol: hilarious. Relevant analogy?! Debatable.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

"Sir T"

You are definitely grading this on a curve! :skep:
For the number of polls regarding sales totals of software and standalone players, that have given blu ray a positive spin, there have been just as many on the opposite side of that spectrum. If you "Google" the inquiry regarding blu ray sales in the first qtr. of '08, there's just as many polls stating how good and how bad the sales figures are for the format. It's not only the Harris Poll that states that the numbers are below expectation due to OMG:yikes: , the market conditions!, But many (consumers) do not see the significant improvement on picture quality over dvd, or if they do, it's minor and therefore offering no justification for buying a new "dvd player", or buying into another format for $400.00, or they refuse to acknowledge it because it's just not that important in the overall scheme of things. Don't you think there is a possibility that the American public has learned it's lesson by now regarding the pricing of technology?

First, sales are not below expectations, they are well above expectations hence the player shortage that is currently plaguing bluray. Secondly there is absolutely no proof whatsoever that the market conditions are dictating bluray player and software sales, ZERO. Once again, this Harris survey was taken during the down period of ALL consumer products. I think the timing was purposeful as to create as much negativity about bluray as they can. Its their history.

As far as player pricing...well folks decide at what price points they are willing to pay for new technology. Some folks will buy players no matter how much they cost, others have price points. It has been that way with ALL technology. The general public has not idea how much it cost to make and market a player, and I am not sure that is important to them. When players reach each individual persons pricing sweet spot, they'll jump in.

There is something I do not think you notice. When a survey like this comes out, websites all over the net just repeat the results with their own personal spin. Its not like every wesite conducts their own survey, and then publishes the result. So you can go to google and get all kinds of spin on a single survey. I look at NDP to get the information I need since it is the most neutral and complete information source.

I have been studying this whole war thing for about two years. There are two camps with two or three different kinds of people reporting on these format issues. There are the computer driven journalist and studies backed by the computer industry(which are totally biased towards the computer, and away from the disc, and do not know as much about the film and video industry as a whole) and the journalist or studies done by film and video experts who know the field exceptionally well.

Generally the computer journalist are pretty negative towards bluray. They would rather see downloads as the way to go(that it because they do not understand or really care about properly watching film) because it pushing the industry they report on, and gives it prominence over disc based media. In this whole war the computer based surveys and reports tended to only look at the bad points of bluray, and most supported HD DVD because of the participation of Microsoft(a computer based company) and the direction that Microsoft wanted to take HD media(downloads). Harris is apart of this group. They have basically been a mouth piece for Toshiba, Microsoft and the HD DVD PG. Engaget, EngagetHD, CNET and all of those computer based websites have also been quite negative towards bluray. Sometimes to the point of spinning data in to non recognition.

You have fanboys, of which I will not get into, because they basically make no sense whatsovever(that goes for both bluray and HD DVD fanboys)

Then you have the journalist that report on nothing but the film and video. These are the people I tend to listen to. They have a long experience in the industry, they understand how it works, and they report on nothing else but the film and video industry(unlike the computer journalist that attempts to report on both). They have the most balanced view of the film and video industry than anyone. Adams Research and NDP fall into this catagory. I balance what I see in NDP with what I read from the industry experts when I make my opinions. A great majority of the time the computer based analysis of the video industry is just plain wrong, and often spins the data to make it look like downloading is the happening thing. When you read NDP, this is just not the case.


Just like in car purchasing, there was a learning curve. The average car buyer for decades was a homerun waiting to happen, (JACKPOT written on the forehead in neon!). But because of information/internet, the ability for a car salesman to make a decent living is nearly impossible. The consumer has access to info (invoice prices). Obtaining that info was at one time unheard of! Today, consumers walk into showrooms with 5 or 6 consumer mags, invoices, and access to information that most salespeople aren't even privy to!

This is not usually the case in the consumer market as it applies to consumer electronics. There is no bluebook for CE equipment.


Now let's take the electronics market. The turntable, the eight track, the cassette player,the VCR, the CD player, the dvd player, even the laser disc player, and lets not forget the software, all eventually goes down in price. Some faster than others, but they do come down. You can put the flat panel in there also! So the US consumer has by now figured it out. Wait until it drops down to a comfort level, which in this economy seems to be $200.00 and then take the plunge. That's not solely Toshiba's doing either! There are a number of factors dictating the demand for that pricing standard, starting with at least 7-8 years of decent dvd players being priced under $200.


You are speaking strictly of the mass market here, not the collector or the videophile. There are always a segment of the population that are bottom feeders(Pixie is one of those) looking for the lowest prices. Formats success are not based on these individuals, and analysis and surveys from over twenty years has determined this true. The collector or videophile are the people that give a video format success. They buy the most players, the most disc, are the loudest trumpeters of any video based format whether it be laserdisc, DVD, or bluray. By the time the bottom feeder(or price conscious if you will) hit the market, either the product has already been established by collectors, early adopters and videophiles, or its dead already. The majority of players that are selling well are around $350-600 dollars, so this $200 price point really only applies to mass market purchasers who usually enter the market much later.


That being said.....I believe that it all depends on where you go to get your information.
And you don't think bluray.com shows a little bias in it's opinion of what's going on in the market place?! Of course they do. The BDA could be near bankruptcy and bluray.com wouldn't admit it until they had no other choice!

You obviously do not go to bluray.com very much if you can just automatically make this assumption. I get my information from a variety of sources, not just bluray.com. I do think bluray.com exists to push the format, but I do not think it is quite as biased as you assume they are. The insiders there are very balanced with their information, dispensing both the good and the bad information on the format. The finance insider Maxpower1987 has warned the CE manufacturers(to their face I might add) that they are too slow getting profile 1.1 and 2.0 players out there. He warned the studios that they will squander their oportunity to capitalize on releasing their libraries on another format if they don't get out and market their products. So it is not always good new as you assume it is. Secondly, bluray.com is an independent website, and is not afiliated with the BDA or any other format supporting organization. So your overly negative assumption is not necessarily true, and is just a bit over the top.



I dare you to respond! Sir T aka "The Oracle! of all things Blu ray"!:biggrin5:

Regards.

Grrrrrrrrrr:mad: LOL

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm skeptical that Toshiba would spend money to do a survey in April when they discontinued their competing product in February. Looking at the survey, I see no indication of who was involved in sponsoring the survey if, in fact, anyone was involved.

The methodology is covered in some detail with all the expected disclaimers required by the NCPC, which is to say one can feel free to accept or reject its conclusions. It's just not worth getting excited about.

Toshiba may have discontinued their product, but that doesn't speak to which direction they are currently going. If you think that Toshiba is going to fold up in a corner after this war, you are dead wrong. Toshiba is going to work with Microsoft to get downloading off the ground. They have an agreement signed for this very goal. Toshiba is also working on adding additional features such as HDI and interactivity to the DVD format to extend its life. What better way to get traction on both of these two activities if you can create an atmosphere that bluray is not doing well.

I am not questioning their methodology or their conclusions. I am questioning their timing. They chose a time when no other marketing or survey company would do such a survey because they know that January through July are not months where the consumer is interested in buying much of anything electronic.

Sometimes things are not always what they seem at the surface. Dig deeper, and you can see the true intentions.

[pixelthis]

I just read the June issue of "Home Theater Magazine"-'Hook me up column: "In Memoriam: HD DVD by Joshua Zyber.
The article lamely explains the how and why's of the demise of HD DVD. It's certainly a watered-down explanation of why HD DVD lost the war!

[QUOTE]That being said, I must admit that you were WAY:yikes: ahead of the curve. I know this is old news, but I believe that I need to acknowledged this. That way, I can continue to be a "troublemaker" with a little credibility!:biggrin5:

HE was "ahead of the curve"?
What about MY prediction that blu would win the format war, and not only that I predicted the time frame.
This guys head is already huge, dont give credit where its not due



You get your "Due Res-spect Mon!":5:

YOU CAN GIVE HIM "RESPECT", I never will
Regards.


BTW, you have to admit that "Pixel" is funny at times! The 'airplane mechanic/767 in the garage' comeback was :lol: hilarious. Relevant analogy?! Debatable.

Actually its a perfect analogy.
Sir talky has said repeatedly that I know "nothing" about front projection CRT because I NEVER OWNED ONE.
Which is rediculous. Can you imagine a world where you wouldnt be an expert without owning the object you're "expert" in?
The 767 quip was just pointing out the idiodicy of a common sir talky statement, that in order to be knowledgable in a certain piece of gear, you have to OWN it.
Well, I dont own a bluray either, but I dont need to own one to know that it uses a blue laser, a standard CD disc tray like every other format over the last two and a half decades,
ETC.
AS for CRT I am currently "forgetting" everything I can about this obsolete format in order to make way for new stuff.
Like Winston in 1984 I am stuffing details of this horse and buggy contraption down the memory hole as fast as possible.
LIKE how it takes a pro to sit one up after its in place, how you sometimes have to
"twin" a pair in order to get decent light output, their finicky nature, their expense,
their relatively short lifespan, etc, etc,etc...:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Pix your analogy falls a bit short, a therapist may be able to tell a couple how to have sex based on what the therapist reads in a book but if this therapist was a virgin they'd lack a bit of insight i'd say. If you had a BR player and watched a couple movies through your TV and didn't think it looked or sounded better than VOD then your argument would hold more water. If you don't care, then you don't care and should really stay out of discussions on whether it succeeds or how it compares to another source. I personally don't care if you and Sir T banter, it's sometimes entertaining and sometimes good points are actually brought out. I also know from experience you NEVER change your mind even when you are over whelmingly proved wrong. I also empathize because it is more than frustrating to me when those who lack equipment and knowledge jump on the band wagon of diminishing returns or attributes of better cables. Knowledge is a good thing but it's much better tempered with some experience.

[ldgibson76]

"Pixey"

Wave your "I'm the Man Flag":20: You've earned it! Yes, you too deserve props for the timely prediction of Blu ray's victory and HD DVD's demise.:10: And I do agree with you to a certain extent regarding ownership of a product equating to having expert knowledge of that product. Plenty of people own a RPTV's, but how many can explain design concepts, specifications, or functionality?! And, on the opposite side of the argument, not every Mercedes Benz mechanic owns a Mercedes, but they can most likely explain every nuance of the car! So the analogy can be considered somewhat relevant.

You have my apologies for not acknowledging your foresight and unique perspective on various topics:rolleyes:

I do like the fact that you keep "Sir T" on his toes! Keeps him sharp!

Regards.

[ldgibson76]

In the latest edition of Sound and Vision Magazine, "Ken C. Pohlmann", in the "Reality Bites" column, writes an article titled, "To the Victor Go the Spoils?" Pg. 26.

Basically giving his spin on Blu ray's winning of the battle, but now entering the WAR. A war that it could easily lose. In his words, "Soon, Blu ray might feel nostalgic for the days when it's only nemesis was its evil hi-def twin."
He believes, along with more and more industry pundits, that Downloading content in Hi-Def is the way of the future. And it ain't as far away as some have vehemently:10: :incazzato: suggested! I'm not name dropping....."T" :ihih:

Anyway, it was an interesting, if not thought provoking perspective, being that that has often been a topic of heated discussion on this website! Yo "Pixey"! Someone actually shares your outlook on the world!:p Go figure!:20: Wave that flag Buddy!

Cheers.
Oh boy, I know I'm gonna get it now!:rolleyes:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

In the latest edition of Sound and Vision Magazine, "Ken C. Pohlmann", in the "Reality Bites" column, writes an article titled, "To the Victor Go the Spoils?" Pg. 26.

Basically giving his spin on Blu ray's winning of the battle, but now entering the WAR. A war that it could easily lose. In his words, "Soon, Blu ray might feel nostalgic for the days when it's only nemesis was its evil hi-def twin."
He believes, along with more and more industry pundits, that Downloading content in Hi-Def is the way of the future. And it ain't as far away as some have vehemently:10: :incazzato: suggested! I'm not name dropping....."T" :ihih:

Anyway, it was an interesting, if not thought provoking perspective, being that that has often been a topic of heated discussion on this website! Yo "Pixey"! Someone actually shares your outlook on the world!:p Go figure!:20: Wave that flag Buddy!

Cheers.
Oh boy, I know I'm gonna get it now!:rolleyes:

Your not in trouble at all. Ken Pohlmann has made alot of predictions. I remember he once said the DVD-A was going to kick the CD to the curb. We all know how that turned out:rolleyes:

Alot of people say what Ken is saying. There are several problems with his prediction. The infrastructure isn't there, the quality isn't there, the interest isn't there, it ain't doing well now(bluray passed downloading last year in overall business), nobody but Apple and the studios are making anything with it(and downloading doesn't make the studios much revenue at all), the studios do not have a viable business model, cannot make the revenue they can off of disc based media and have watched the market lose money last year, and lastly and most important, the studio DO NOT WANT DOWNLOADING FOR SELL THROUGH AT THIS POINT. They will support media rental through downloading, but they do not want downloading to effect disc sales at this point, so they are not support it with much enthusiasm. Every analyst who knows the film and video industry well(and that does not include a certain journalist working for sound and vision) says that downloading en mass is still at least a decade away, and some say closer to fifteen years away. Bluray has plenty of time to establish itself by then, so I do not see downloading as a threat to bluray anytime soon.

Digital sell through is a disaster up to this point. Four companies have folded up their downloading sell through services because they lost money. If downloading is going to be a success, they are going to have to get people like myself in their camp. They are a looooong way from that at this point. Digital sell through will not happen until there is a viable business model that makes the studios as much money as the disc makes. Until that happens, I do not care what a journalist from Sound and Vision says, it is not going to happen. :nono:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

HE was "ahead of the curve"?
What about MY prediction that blu would win the format war, and not only that I predicted the time frame.
This guys head is already huge, dont give credit where its not due

Once again, trying to take credit when you don't deserve it. And you say my head is huge. Just saying YOU THINK bluray was going to win does not get you brownie points old fart. Alot of people said that. It when you say it, and have evidence and information that it was so that gets you credit. Credit for a guess, I think not:nono:





YOU CAN GIVE HIM "RESPECT", I never will
Regards.

Oh, I think I am going to lose some sleep tonight, and forever.:rolleyes: I do not want a bottom feeding dumpster diver to give me anything.




Actually its a perfect analogy.
Sir talky has said repeatedly that I know "nothing" about front projection CRT because I NEVER OWNED ONE.
Which is rediculous. Can you imagine a world where you wouldnt be an expert without owning the object you're "expert" in?

Right pixie. I just read about how they remove tonsils and now I am ready for surgery! Opps I have never done tonsil removal, I just read about it, Oh I am an expert, I read about it!:rolleyes:


The 767 quip was just pointing out the idiodicy of a common sir talky statement, that in order to be knowledgable in a certain piece of gear, you have to OWN it.
Well, I dont own a bluray either, but I dont need to own one to know that it uses a blue laser, a standard CD disc tray like every other format over the last two and a half decades,
ETC.

You have just sent the idiot factor off the charts with this one. So you know a bluray player uses a blue laser, and has a standard disc tray. Ooooooo, expert stuff.

Two people here who actually own a CRT front projection system have disputed your stupid claims. We both own the stuff that you talk about. You make really stupid claims about their light levels, and you have no clue because you have never seen their light levels, or what properly calibrated light level should be. You make a claim that CRT are all but gone, but I do not hear of any glut of CRT based televsion filling up dumps or recycling centers, 50 years worth of sales at that. All of your comments on CRT based front projection systems are just way off base, and that is because you have ZERO experience with them. ZERO! So to claim that you are some sort of expert on them is pretty absurd.

A person who is an expert on 767 doesn't have to own the plane, he works on them on a daily basis. He or she doesn't have to own it, but their personal experience working with them on a daily basis gives them that expert status. Its called familarity, experience and exposure. You have NONE of these with CRT projection systems, so what you have to say regarding them is for lack of experience, familarity and exposure, another two words would be utter ignorance.


AS for CRT I am currently "forgetting" everything I can about this obsolete format in order to make way for new stuff.
Like Winston in 1984 I am stuffing details of this horse and buggy contraption down the memory hole as fast as possible.
LIKE how it takes a pro to sit one up after its in place, how you sometimes have to
"twin" a pair in order to get decent light output, their finicky nature, their expense,
their relatively short lifespan, etc, etc,etc...:1:

More of your senseless uneductated bull$hit. Your house must really smell. The purge probably isn't going to take long, you do not know all that much in the first place.:1:

[pixelthis]

Pix your analogy falls a bit short, a therapist may be able to tell a couple how to have sex based on what the therapist reads in a book but if this therapist was a virgin they'd lack a bit of insight i'd say. If you had a BR player and watched a couple movies through your TV and didn't think it looked or sounded better than VOD then your argument would hold more water. If you don't care, then you don't care and should really stay out of discussions on whether it succeeds or how it compares to another source. I personally don't care if you and Sir T banter, it's sometimes entertaining and sometimes good points are actually brought out. I also know from experience you NEVER change your mind even when you are over whelmingly proved wrong. I also empathize because it is more than frustrating to me when those who lack equipment and knowledge jump on the band wagon of diminishing returns or attributes of better cables. Knowledge is a good thing but it's much better tempered with some experience.


where to start?
First off you're therapist deal is totally whack.
DR Spock (the baby doctor, not the science officer) was considered the preemminent
expert on raising children.
Didnt matter that he never had any.
THE ENGINEERS, TECHS, who bravely brought home Apollo 13, turning a disaster into a triump, how many actually flew an apollo space craft?
And I could go on and on.
As for whether or not the quality of BLU IS BETTER THAN vod, OF COURSE IT IS.
But what has that to do with the price of eggs?
You want "experience"?
Well, lets see, the conversation goes like this.
"Oh, your picture looks really great, what is that? A Laserdisc? Nice.
A SVHS player,recorder? NICE"
And then they go home and watch their Emerson VCR on their 25"Magnavox console TV.
VOD doesnt measure up to BLU IF...
You have a 1080p TV(half dont even have HDTV)
Otherwise the conversations in stores of people watching demos goes,
"So thats the new DVD player, whats the difference"?
The hardest thing for people in this hobby to get their brains around is a simple fact,
most of the market arent discerning buyers, quality freaks, most watch TV on SD tv SETS and some complain to the powers that be about having to "switch" in 2009".
I am constantly bringing this up because people keep forgetting it.
BUT the truth is that the sooner that blu becomes a mass market product, the better for all of us.
I like HIGHQ myself, but for casual watching VOD is fine, this is the case for most people.
I have gone down the road to the point that DVD just doesnt cut it anymore, but HD on VOD ISNT THAT BAD, AND FOR THOSE WITHOUT hd (half) DVD is fine.
if I GET A bLU PLAYER NOW, then I will get discs, and I can barely afford the player,
and they arent quite ready for primetime anyway.
But I have watched them , know they are a quality product.
But you have to allocate resources, and VOD is fine right now.
It seems that some on this board are rather well insulated.
Well, let me explain it to you.
People are stuck with SUV'S, cant make the payments, or afford gas, and NOBODY wants em. Try to trade one in.
And people are losing their houses, food prices are sky high.
In other words this is a terrible time to launch a new format that to a lot is a fifth wheel anyway.
And if they dont start cutting player prices then say hello to the laserdisc of the future, BLU-RAY.
Seen it happen before, will see it again.
I wanted Blu to "win" the format war, because I want a nice format to collect movies in.
But if people dont buy the things in a lot higher quanties than they are now it
WILL fail, Sony, like the dinosaur chewing his cud and calmly watching the asteroid hit,
doesnt seem to understand that the paradigm has changed, the world is wired.
I remember when the video stores started springing up, now they are in trouble,
and NETFLIX, WHICH IS ALREADY KICKING THEIR BUTT, WILL HAVE A 99$ MOVIE MACHINE SOON.
Thats what people will buy if the buy anything its three hundred dollars cheaper than a blu player!
People just need a reality check on this board is all I AM SAYING.
What the mass market does affects us perfectionists, whether we want it to or NOT:1:

[filecat13]

Well, geez, I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but predicting the future is a pretty dicey enterprise. Some might say it's a fool's game.

Whether it's Ken Pohlman, pixelthis, Sir Terence, Mr. Peabody, Harris Interactive, NPD, or me, it's all just a mixture of past experience, conjecture, and smoke blowing.

Our local weather persons (are any of them actually meteorologists? maybe one or two) attempt to predict down to the % how much the chances of rain are. Yet with all their past experience with weather patterns and local conditions, with the conjecture they can glean from the sophisticated machines that give them effing pictures and graphs and data to use, and with all their assured posturing on TV, of the ten times they predicted 70% or higher chances of rain, only four panned out. Of the five times they predicted less that 20% chances of rain, it rained area-wide twice. And four times it rained when there was no prediction of rain of any kind.

So you can't accept my analogy because you think there's no logical connection between these two like conditions? Fine. How about we check the Wii forecasts from the past?

Predictions for the Wii's failure were abundant. Polls "conclusively demonstrated" that consumers wanted HD output, that they wanted significantly higher polygonal output from the processor, that they wanted gamepad-style controllers, that they wanted sophisticated games with violent/mature/fantasy storylines, that they were not interested in a toy, that they had moved on to XBox and PS3 land, that they wanted a BR or DV DVD drive in it, and that Nintendo had signed its own death warrant by staking its future on the underpowered, underperforming, too simplistic, and too different Wii.

At best the Wii would be a distant, third-place also-ran, and at worst, the company was doomed. DOOMED I tell you. Except it surpassed the PS3 in sales in July and the XBox in September of last year.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3162770

So the thing about polls and predictions is that they shouldn't be trusted too far, regardless of who makes them.

Gather your closest ten friends, look them in the eye, and poll them on this question. "If I experienced massive kidney failure and were going to die, if you were a match would you give me a kidney if it meant saving my life?" Six of the ten might say, "Sure, you bet. I would. No question."

Now fast forward two years and suddenly your life hangs in the balance for want of a kidney. How many of the six would still answer yes? How many would say there are special conditions that keep them from doing it? How many would pray that they would not be a match? How many would have an excuse that a spouse or child or parent begged them not to do it?

Well, you'd only need ONE to actually do it for you to survive, so the poll be damned. It's what people actually do, not what they say they'll do, that matters.*

I still think downloads will become the dominant means of all media delivery within five years.** Others think its ten or maybe even twelve years away. None of us knows, if we're being honest; we're just making predictions based on past experience, conjecture, and a bit of smoke blowing. I'll admit smoke blowing is fun. What do I really care if I'm wrong?

In either case, I don't think it matters for the survival of BR. BR just needs enough people to support it for it to be profitable enough to survive.


* I'm not a Christian, but this seems germane. People don't always do what you think they will (or what they say).

Matthew 21:28-31"What do you think? A man had two sons; he went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work in the vineyard today.’ He answered, ‘I will not’; but later he changed his mind and went. The father went to the second and said the same; and he answered, ‘I go, sir’; but he did not go. Which of the two did the will of his father?"

**I stated in another thread I'll buy two forum members beers if it doesn't happen. I've got 4.5 years to go. You boys can start licking your lips. :prrr:

[pixelthis]

In the latest edition of Sound and Vision Magazine, "Ken C. Pohlmann", in the "Reality Bites" column, writes an article titled, "To the Victor Go the Spoils?" Pg. 26.

Basically giving his spin on Blu ray's winning of the battle, but now entering the WAR. A war that it could easily lose. In his words, "Soon, Blu ray might feel nostalgic for the days when it's only nemesis was its evil hi-def twin."
He believes, along with more and more industry pundits, that Downloading content in Hi-Def is the way of the future. And it ain't as far away as some have vehemently:10: :incazzato: suggested! I'm not name dropping....."T" :ihih:

Anyway, it was an interesting, if not thought provoking perspective, being that that has often been a topic of heated discussion on this website! Yo "Pixey"! Someone actually shares your outlook on the world!:p Go figure!:20: Wave that flag Buddy!

Cheers.
Oh boy, I know I'm gonna get it now!:rolleyes:


ken Pohlmann has been saying this for years, I read an interesting op-ed piece in his rag
quite some time ago.
You couldnt say he shares MY views, MORE like that I share HIS.
He is a learned and intelligent man, but these ideas arent just his, they are pretty much
what most in the industry think.
Verizon is completing A SECTION OF THEIR NET WITH "FIBER TO THE HOUSE",
which will be like a vette to the rest of the means of access firebird.
FAST, VERY FAST.
But you wont need this extra speed to even download HD, you can do that now with
DSL/CABLE.
And VOD OFF OF CABLE IS WAY AHEAD OF THE NET.
Which is basically what I have been saying, Blu is mainly going to be a collectors medium,
eventually, the question is will it gain some mainstream status before becoming the "laserdisc of the future", or will most go straight from DVD to downloading?
Blu needs to "buy" marketshare instead of trying in vain to sell players at exorbiant prices
(doesnt matter what it costs to make em, but what people will pay) they should be
getting these out there.
I saw Pannys new Blu, "final version"(these "versions" dont help either) for 499$.
Anybody been in a circuit or bestbuy lately? Business is kinda "slow" not to put too fine a point on it.
Pohlman's words resonated when I FIRST READ THEM, AND THE STILL RING TRUE TODAY.
And the BDA can ignore them at their own risk.
Which they probably will.
THE Car AND portable CD player are disapearing, some are in cars but how many use them?
SAME THING THAT HAPPENED TO AUDIO ON DISC WILL HAPPEN TO VIDEO ON DISC , just like the videocassette player followed the audiocassette, so will VOD
follow MOD(music on demand):1:

[pixelthis]

Once again, trying to take credit when you don't deserve it. And you say my head is huge. Just saying YOU THINK bluray was going to win does not get you brownie points old fart. Alot of people said that. It when you say it, and have evidence and information that it was so that gets you credit. Credit for a guess, I think not:nono:


The facts are the facts, I dont need "credit" I have money in the bank on this one






Oh, I think I am going to lose some sleep tonight, and forever.:rolleyes: I do not want a bottom feeding dumpster diver to give me anything.

You have nothing to worry about




Right pixie. I just read about how they remove tonsils and now I am ready for surgery! Opps I have never done tonsil removal, I just read about it, Oh I am an expert, I read about it!:rolleyes:
THE ONLY THING YOU'RE "EXPERT" ON IS RUNNING YOUR MOUTH




Two people here who actually own a CRT front projection system have disputed your stupid claims. We both own the stuff that you talk about. You make really stupid claims about their light levels, and you have no clue because you have never seen their light levels, or what properly calibrated light level should be. You make a claim that CRT are all but gone, but I do not hear of any glut of CRT based televsion filling up dumps or recycling centers, 50 years worth of sales at that. All of your comments on CRT based front projection systems are just way off base, and that is because you have ZERO experience with them. ZERO! So to claim that you are some sort of expert on them is pretty absurd.

I WORKED in a place for a decade that had panny front projectors in all of their conference rooms and spent quite a few hours watching them, and helping set them up sometime.
THEY WERE LOUD, TOOK UP QUITE A BIT OF SPACE, and you had to watch them in a dark room, which the employees loved because they could nap.
AS SOON as possible they were all replaced by DLP projectors.
Too bad you werent there, you could have went "dumpster diving" for parts.
YOU call me a "dumpster diver" and you're the one scrounging around for parts for your obsolete crap.




A person who is an expert on 767 doesn't have to own the plane, he works on them on a daily basis. He or she doesn't have to own it, but their personal experience working with them on a daily basis gives them that expert status. Its called familarity, experience and exposure. You have NONE of these with CRT projection systems, so what you have to say regarding them is for lack of experience, familarity and exposure, another two words would be utter ignorance.

I can take a set apart and put it back together, on my panny 47 I had to go in and disconnect the scan velocity modulation, which was on the yoke for some reason, had to unhook it from each yoke.
THERE IS NOTHING MYSTICAL ABOUT FRONT PROJECTION CRT , it works on the same basic premise as other CRT based display systems, just because I have rented most of my life, and never had a place to put one doesnt mean I am not familiar.
I followed CRT front projection with some interest, but it always seemed a bit too expensive and troublesome for me.
Doesnt mean I dont know anything about them, whats to know?


More of your senseless uneductated bull$hit. Your house must really smell. The purge probably isn't going to take long, you do not know all that much in the first place.:1:

Still more than you :1:

[filecat13]

NPD info as spun by analysts.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Is-Blu-ray-Worth-It-63156.html

[ldgibson76]

NPD info as spun by analysts.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Is-Blu-ray-Worth-It-63156.html

And this is by the "NPD"? Are you checkin' this out "Sir T"?!!!!

Peace!

[filecat13]

RoughlyDrafted Magazine (online) add this to the discussion.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/30/three-barriers-holding-up-apple-tv/

As some have also reported before, I generally enjoy Dilger's articles, and this one is no exception. He's got me waiting for the next installment for sure.

The part that resonated the most to me was this:


America is now discussing Net Neutrality as if freedom of speech is a controversial idea. The real discussion should be much further ahead, instead discussing how we can induce companies to provide better, faster and cheaper Internet service as a matter of national security and competitiveness. Instead, the only political discussions are related to preserving copyright, because the media companies have the money to buy political capital.

This is unlikely to change until the government begins seeing the need to serve citizens rather than just making it easier for corporations to make money.

Yeah, I'd like the government to think about me from time to time. Farging bastiges.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple manages the three barriers Dilger identifies and which we have discussed here. It's because I think that Apple already has a strategy that I hold to the five year timeline for the emergence of real downloadable HD content. Otherwise, I would agree more easily with the opinion that it's probably 10-12 years away.

That time frame is only loosely tied to the technological challenges, IMO. It's much more encumbered by greed and control issues.

[Mr Peabody]

Downloading and increased VOD is on it's way. How much market it gets and how effective will yet to be seen. If you haven't yet, you may want to read the article I posted on News & Rumors, Have you seen what the cable companies are doing lately, or something like that. The cable companies are working on standardizing their systems and equipment. Panasonic and a couple other manufacturers are coming out with TV's that have the cable box built in so you can have interactivity without renting a box. Cables big hurdle is updating their infrastructure and not everyone having access. It will take a long time getting fiber optics in place. Same with downloading, it will take some time to get a faster internet with more bandwidth. Although I did hear a buzz about cable coming out with a faster broadband connection, I'm talking faster than has ever been available before.

[filecat13]

A lot will depend on who wins the presidential election. McCain and Obama have significantly different ideas about net neutrality and high speed access for all. Clinton's position is unclear to me.

Imagine even 10% of the money being spent on Iraq being spent here at home on publicly-funded infrastructure build out.

[Mr Peabody]

A lot will depend on who wins the presidential election. McCain and Obama have significantly different ideas about net neutrality and high speed access for all. Clinton's position is unclear to me.

Imagine even 10% of the money being spent on Iraq being spent here at home on publicly-funded infrastructure build out.

You said it. And imagine what that could have done for our education system. I heard the U.S. don't even compete in the international math contest anymore. I some how missed McCain and Obama's views on the internet. I'd think Obama being a democrat was more supportive since Al invented it :)

[pixelthis]

And this is by the "NPD"? Are you checkin' this out "Sir T"?!!!!

Peace!


PROBABLY NOT.
For him denial aint just a river in Egypt.
TEN bILLON DOWNLOADS, and counting.
What I have been saying, basically.
MARKETING TYPES COME ALONG WITH THEIR "plans" and ideas of the future, which promptly get shredded by the free market.
those pesky consumers just dont wanna go along with the plans of THE BDA to make a mint off of high priced players.
When 85% of your instaled user base is a game platform you have problems.
OR maybe they are like me.
I paid 450 $ for my first DVD player, it had SVHS and that was it.
Done that enough times.
think I WILL WAIT AWHILE this time.
If I HIT A WINDFALL, MAYBE, but otherwise, I think I will wait awhile.
And plenty agree with me.:1:

[filecat13]

I some how missed McCain and Obama's views on the internet. I'd think Obama being a democrat was more supportive since Al invented it :)

I think Obama might put Internet Al on his cabinet as the nation's first CTO.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/05/21/obamas-apple-mccains-microsoft-the-politics-of-tech/

Yes, it's biased and it's not the definitive article on the subject, but it's still a good snapshot.

[Mr Peabody]

That was interesting how MS got employees to pose as ordinary citizens on the internet. I wonder if that's Sir T's role, he sure is a BR, BDA and industry defender no matter what. You rarely see a person who totally agrees with everything a company does. He isn't very professional in his posts but maybe that's part of the guise.

[blackraven]

BR sales are doing very well here. Some of the stores cant keep BR players in stock because they are selling so well. And most people I talk to dont want to be bothered downloading off the internet to obtain their movies. People are busy and many people have limited computer skills and have cheap computers with little HD space. Its more convienent to stop by Blockbuster and browse the movie section and rent a movie. Especially when many people have more than one TV and may want to move it around the house, especially with kids. Now I live in the Burbs and it may be differnent for people living in the city.

I think that VOD will be huge but I dont think BR will disappear.

[Mr Peabody]

I agree Blackraven, I am one who is not interested in the least in download, I haven't even downloaded music and not sure I would even know how. I'd probably hit download, it would do it but I'd never find it again. You can't ignore though that there are factions out there who is trying to push it. I believe it will be an alternative and all these things will exist in the market much the same way they do now. There will undoubtedly be a fight for market share though. You can see the camps gearing up, cable companies are standardizing and working with manufacturers to make compatible TV's with the boxes built in. Netflix will be looking to do something because their profits are starting to drop due to mail cost. I think the popularity of Netflix and Blockbusters competitor service shows at least some are looking for more convenience. I miss some of the movies that come out so I like to browse the isles of the video store. That's one thing I used to like about the movie channels but satelite and cable are so expensive who can keep the premiums anymore.

[Ajani]

That was interesting how MS got employees to pose as ordinary citizens on the internet. I wonder if that's Sir T's role, he sure is a BR, BDA and industry defender no matter what. You rarely see a person who totally agrees with everything a company does. He isn't very professional in his posts but maybe that's part of the guise.

LOL.... I think we just have too many hardcore fanatics on this site.... Sir T's love of Blu Ray is not that much worse than some of the brand worship that regularly occurs in the audio threads.... Though, who knows? Some of those 'fanatics' could be on manufacturer's payrolls :idea:

[pixelthis]

BR sales are doing very well here. Some of the stores cant keep BR players in stock because they are selling so well. And most people I talk to dont want to be bothered downloading off the internet to obtain their movies. People are busy and many people have limited computer skills and have cheap computers with little HD space. Its more convienent to stop by Blockbuster and browse the movie section and rent a movie. Especially when many people have more than one TV and may want to move it around the house, especially with kids. Now I live in the Burbs and it may be differnent for people living in the city.

I think that VOD will be huge but I dont think BR will diappear.


I certainly hope not. I am counting on this format to "archive" my favorite movies.
I understand that initaal cost of players in a new format are high, until economies
of scale kick in, but they need to get the price of these down as soon as posible.
And boost the PR, show peeps the advantage of blu.
You can win the "format war" AND LOSE THE PEACE :1:

[blackraven]

The other problem with VOD is who wants to have your computer hooked up to your TV. If the cable and sat. providers offer onscreen browsing of hundreds if not thousands of titles then it may work, But on screen browsing will be a pain in the A$$, having to scroll through hundreds of titles. Its so much easier to pop over to BB and walk the isles and pick up the movie and read the review on the box to see if you want to rent it. We ususally rent 2-3 movies at a time.

The other thing is that there are still millions of people who cant afford the $50-60 per month cable TV bill along with the $50 per month cable internet fee. Dial up is still alive and well.

And with gas prices going up and its affect on food prices and all commodities, less people are going to be able to afford cable services such as TV and internet. So owning a BR player and renting movies the old fashion way still makes sense.

[Mr Peabody]

Hey Pix, I saw you can get a PS3 from Wal-mart for $399.00 and you get a $100.00 gift card. I'm not sure all the details but surely it's on their website.

[pixelthis]

The other problem with VOD is who wants to have your computer hooked up to your TV. If the cable and sat. providers offer onscreen browsing of hundreds if not thousands of titles then it may work, But on screen browsing will be a pain in the A$$, having to scroll through hundreds of titles. Its so much easier to pop over to BB and walk the isles and pick up the movie and read the review on the box to see if you want to rent it. We ususally rent 2-3 movies at a time.

The other thing is that there are still millions of people who cant afford the $50-60 per month cable TV bill along with the $50 per month cable internet fee. Dial up is still alive and well.

And with gas prices going up and its affect on food prices and all commodities, less people are going to be able to afford cable services such as TV and internet. So owning a BR player and renting movies the old fashion way still makes sense.


WELL, just about everybody who sees my setup wants it.
My "monitor" is my 37" vizio, hooked up with a dsub, higher res than HDTV actually.
But its not for movies but music, and web surfing.
Cable is primarily where VOD is at these days, and primarily where I get my movies at.
But they put those computer connections on TV for a reason.
Once you go with big screen net surfing its hard to go back to the 21" screen:1:

[pixelthis]

Hey Pix, I saw you can get a PS3 from Wal-mart for $399.00 and you get a $100.00 gift card. I'm not sure all the details but surely it's on their website.

they have bundles from 399$ to 499$, a 40 gig and a 100$ gift card.
I guess the idea is you buy movies with the card.
Of course with teh convoluted logic of groundbeef the player still
will cost 399$
THANKS for the heads up:1:

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=0&search_query=%22ps3%22&ic=48_0

[Mr Peabody]

A friend of mine who was really interested in that PS3 deal says they are sold out online. I wonder if they sold that many or if they were expecting a shipment in they were wanting to unload. He didn't think this deal was available in the local stores.

[pixelthis]

A friend of mine who was really interested in that PS3 deal says they are sold out online. I wonder if they sold that many or if they were expecting a shipment in they were wanting to unload. He didn't think this deal was available in the local stores.


I saw that.
And maybe its a hopefull sign.
You know, those 299$ players around the holidays sold quite well.
Thats the price of this with the "gift card".
299$ is probably the "decider" price which tips a lot over the edge.:1:

[GMichael]

I see that the $100 Walley-World coupons are being handed out for BR player sales as well as for PS/3's. These are an option for people who don't have HDMI receivers or pre/pros.

[Mr Peabody]

BR players too? Wow, if you can get the deal with the $298.00 Magnavox that's getting down there.

PS3's are already back in stock, they must have been waiting for the ship.

[GMichael]

BR players too? Wow, if you can get the deal with the $298.00 Magnavox that's getting down there.

PS3's are already back in stock, they must have been waiting for the ship.

Not sure if it works for all BR players or just a few models. What I read is, "Wal-mart offers a $100 gift card with the purchase of the Sony PS3 and other Blu-ray players."

Here's the link. The title may have been a little missleading. http://www.i4u.com/article17808.html

[Rich-n-Texas]

Not sure if it works for all BR players or just a few models. What I read is, "Wal-mart offers a $100 gift card with the purchase of the Sony PS3 and other Blu-ray players."

Here's the link. The title may have been a little missleading. http://www.i4u.com/article17808.html
What's this? What are you guys talking about??? :confused5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Meh. Nevermind. The deal's only good on the 40 Gig. :thumbsdown:

[pixelthis]

Meh. Nevermind. The deal's only good on the 40 Gig. :thumbsdown:

ALRIGHT mr bigshot with your emotiva amp.
Why is 40 gig too small?
All it requires is being carefull, and you could always put your own HD in there,
plenty of instruction on the web:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Rich! keep up.

I don't think I'd go farting around putting HD's into a new PS3, especially if you expect your warranty to be honored. How much are HD's? Adding that could make the deal not such a deal.

[GMichael]

ALRIGHT mr bigshot with your emotiva amp.
Why is 40 gig too small?
All it requires is being carefull, and you could always put your own HD in there,
plenty of instruction on the web:1:
Maybe he wants it to play SACD's. But I thought he already had one of those.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Don't worry, I won't be hacking the hardware in the PS3. The 40 gig box isn't backwards compatible; L.J. (God rest his soul) mentioned a few other differences and even though I may never use up all 80, it'll be nice to have JIC.

I don't own any SACD's because there aren't any genre's/titles that interest me, and the DVD-A's that I do own will play on my current changer.

But this thread wasn't about me, so carry on.

[Mr Peabody]

Ahh, Rich but we like talking about you.

[pixelthis]

Don't worry, I won't be hacking the hardware in the PS3. The 40 gig box isn't backwards compatible; L.J. (God rest his soul) mentioned a few other differences and even though I may never use up all 80, it'll be nice to have JIC.

I don't own any SACD's because there aren't any genre's/titles that interest me, and the DVD-A's that I do own will play on my current changer.

But this thread wasn't about me, so carry on.


You mean you cant find a compatible hard drive, clone the one in the PS3, and put the larger HD back in?
GEE WILLIKERS!:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Pix is right, no problem, I've been building PS3 compatible machines in my garage. You can tell the difference between mine and Sony's, except mine is better. I will sell a 160 GB for $199.00 and nearly double my money. AR buds get a discount $197.99. but you can't tell anyone. I can offer a larger HD but price goes up. I can tell you my machine does much better SD upsampling than the PS3. I have a connection on a top secret chip that is even better than Silicon Optix for a fraction of the price. I can also offer the kit if you want to build it yourself for only 189.99. You say that's not much discount, well baby I have cheap labor, kids are on summer vacation. You want one, up the money and hush.

[pixelthis]

have I stepped into the twilight zone?
mr computer illeterate is all of a sudden selling bootleg computer games?.
Whats the deal wheel?:1:

[GMichael]

Pix is right, no problem, I've been building PS3 compatible machines in my garage. You can tell the difference between mine and Sony's, except mine is better. I will sell a 160 GB for $199.00 and nearly double my money. AR buds get a discount $197.99. but you can't tell anyone. I can offer a larger HD but price goes up. I can tell you my machine does much better SD upsampling than the PS3. I have a connection on a top secret chip that is even better than Silicon Optix for a fraction of the price. I can also offer the kit if you want to build it yourself for only 189.99. You say that's not much discount, well baby I have cheap labor, kids are on summer vacation. You want one, up the money and hush.


How much to build me an Acura MDX with 500 hp?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'll settle for a made in the USA vette w/650 hp.

[GMichael]

I need the storage capacity.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I need the performance.

[techjunkie]

You mean you cant find a compatible hard drive, clone the one in the PS3, and put the larger HD back in?
GEE WILLIKERS!:1:


Yup... just like this : http://www.gamersreports.com/article/43/

100GB+

The only question is old game saves, but I would think sector for sector copy would suffice for this.

[Mr Peabody]

Pix, I don't build games, I make entertainment consoles. Thank you

[pixelthis]

I need the performance.


So those Hooter girls told me:1:

[pixelthis]

Pix, I don't build games, I make entertainment consoles. Thank you


YEAH, and the backpack that guy is carryling is a safety flare, never mind the little atom symbol on it.
You say tomato , I SAY SALMONELA:1:

[Mr Peabody]

YEAH, and the backpack that guy is carryling is a safety flare, never mind the little atom symbol on it.
You say tomato , I SAY SALMONELA:1:

Tuche' LOL