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jimib
05-17-2008, 02:40 AM
I purchased a pair of speakers from a member of another web site 10 days ago.I paid him on 5/6. 5/17, still no tracking number. He told me he would call me back 5/14. That call never happened. I talked tim on the phone on 3 occasions. He keeps claiming that he's waiting on shipping boxes. I have 3 phone numbers for him, all legit, his address and even sent the pics of the speakers with the serial numbers to the company to make sure they were what he said they were. He claims they're 6 months old, the company says Sept, 1999. I got a very good price but how long do I wait before I dispute this with Paypal, Visa, and the other website. I'm a patient guy but now I'm starting to get a little concerned.

Feanor
05-17-2008, 03:08 AM
I purchased a pair of speakers from a member of another web site 10 days ago.I paid him on 5/6. 5/17, still no tracking number. He told me he would call me back 5/14. That call never happened. I talked tim on the phone on 3 occasions. He keeps claiming that he's waiting on shipping boxes. I have 3 phone numbers for him, all legit, his address and even sent the pics of the speakers with the serial numbers to the company to make sure they were what he said they were. He claims they're 6 months old, the company says Sept, 1999. I got a very good price but how long do I wait before I dispute this with Paypal, Visa, and the other website. I'm a patient guy but now I'm starting to get a little concerned.

Obviously you're never going to deal with this guy again. You have been in touch with him and he has responded: you are the best one to decide when enough is enough.

But he's not necessarily a crook and he's not necessarily lying. Of course he should have obtained the shipping boxes before or at least while the speakers were up for sale, but it could be true. "Six months old" could simply mean he's had them for six months -- that's a deception of course.

thekid
05-17-2008, 03:36 AM
Well they should have been shipped by now but you are still within a period of 2 weeks so I would not pull the trigger yet. After the 27th which would be 3 weeks I would have to say IMO you have given the seller enough time to do the right thing by any reasonable standard. Good Luck!!

blackraven
05-17-2008, 08:56 AM
Cancel the order! If he's reputable he will not dispute it. 10 days is enough time to ship something.

Mr Peabody
05-17-2008, 03:40 PM
I agree, he should have had the speakers ready to go when he listed them. Take what ever action you can now. It may be more difficult the longer you wait. And, if they aren't overly large or some odd build any box the right size and proper packing would work.

PDN
05-17-2008, 07:16 PM
Yes, cancel it and get a full refund. That is entirely unacceptable. I would also report him to the website's board or whatever they call themselves. There is no excuse for this and he should have had those boxes at the time of sale. A local UPS or ship and pack type store can properly box them up and ship them out. Don't you just hate this type of behavior? Let us know how this turns out.

jimib
05-18-2008, 03:05 AM
Thakns for the replies. I'm giving him 14 days from payment, then it's getting disputed. That's what I had planned on doing in the beginning. I always have things ready when listed, and the only time my shipping is delayed (live reptiles) is occasionally weather, and the buyer is updated. It ticks me off because I've seen several other deals I could have jumped on since my payment.

thekid
05-18-2008, 05:03 AM
Thakns for the replies. I'm giving him 14 days from payment, then it's getting disputed. That's what I had planned on doing in the beginning. I always have things ready when listed, and the only time my shipping is delayed (live reptiles) is occasionally weather, and the buyer is updated. It ticks me off because I've seen several other deals I could have jumped on since my payment.

You are being more than fair.
Good luck, I hope it works out for you!!

jimib
05-20-2008, 02:03 PM
Thanks again for the responses. Today, 5/20, I get an e-mail saying the boxes arrived and when he took them to ship them the post office broke one of the speakers. He said to give him a phone number to call me to discuss the situation. I responded with " I want a refund asap". We'll see what happens. I'm guessing he has a local buyer or someone offered him more. Whatever, just give me my money back. I now have a little more stashed away to add to it for another pair.

Mr Peabody
05-20-2008, 03:14 PM
Somethings wrong, you'd think the speakers were packed when he took them to the Post Office, what the heck did they do to break them. What speakers were they anyway?

blackraven
05-20-2008, 03:24 PM
Smells fishy to me!

Glen B
05-21-2008, 11:15 AM
Today, 5/20, I get an e-mail saying the boxes arrived and when he took them to ship them the post office broke one of the speakers. Sounds like he's feeding you a crock. Ask for your money back.

jimib
05-21-2008, 03:58 PM
They were Totem Sttafs. I'm giving them until Friday to refund my money. After that I'll dispute it with my credit card company, paypal, and the website.

dogorman
05-21-2008, 04:50 PM
Gosh it's a topsy-turvy world out there: while you were having this experience, I had a buyer for a pair of Audio Physic Spark fours say, first, that he'd sent the payment to a typo'ed paypal ID, then that paypal was saying he had changed his password when he hadn't, then that he couldn't use paypal from his office computer, and then that he couldn't resolve the situation after work because he'd be getting home too late. In the meantime, of course, all four of the interested and potential backup buyers all switched to something else. I guess misery loves company, but at least you know that it's not just buyers getting this kind of run-around out there.

jimib
05-23-2008, 03:19 PM
They're still on audiogn.com. Search Totem Sttafs. They should say "sucker taken" not "sale pending". I'm sure it goes both ways. I still have gotten no response from this guy. I will NEVER again buy from an individual. I work too dam hard for my money to get ripped off by chumps like this. That being said, I'm sure 99% of us out here are honest and legit, but this has soured me badly. I'll stick to local buying now. Thanks for your responses and do your homework better than I did before you buy.

PDN
05-23-2008, 06:04 PM
jimib: That's really a shame and totally inexcusable. That's a great deal of money you spent. Can you dispute with Paypal? Please don't be discouraged about audiogon. Overall, it's an excellent platform to sell preowned audio components. I see there is no feedback for this seller. That's a good indication he may not be trustworthy. Have you reported it to the staff at audiogon? Perhaps they can ban him for life. Perhaps the audiogon board can identify him for you so you can send him a certified letter demanding your money back or give you his phone number. Hang in there !!

bobsticks
05-25-2008, 06:55 PM
I still have gotten no response from this guy. I will NEVER again buy from an individual. I work too dam hard for my money to get ripped off by chumps like this. .

Well, first off "hi" jim, sorry I couldn't be welcoming you to the forum on better circumstances. And, btw, the Totems are nice speakers so, y'know, credit to you for having good taste even if you never get 'em.

The sad thing is it may not even be some type of malevolent scam. Mostly, you never hear from those cats again. It really just sounds like this a completely incompetent person, a fool to the highest degree. Make sure to use the Audiogon dispute system to warn others.

Good luck with future endeavors and let us know what you end up with.

Feanor
05-26-2008, 03:39 AM
...
The sad thing is it may not even be some type of malevolent scam. Mostly, you never hear from those cats again. It really just sounds like this a completely incompetent person, a fool to the highest degree. Make sure to use the Audiogon dispute system to warn others.

Good luck with future endeavors and let us know what you end up with.

I agree, BS. As likely as not, this person is just someone incompontent and indifferent to the legitimate concerns of others.

As for Audiogon, our member should try to leave feedback for this deadbeat. The problem is than Audiogon's recent policy is not to post any feedback unless that feedback is approved by the person receiving it; this make the feedback mechanism worthless for weeding out the crooks and deadbeats.

jimib
05-26-2008, 03:42 AM
I have disputed with Paypal and Audiogon so far. Visa is next. I am in no way slamming the credible people on Audiogon. Seems like an excellent site to do audio business, you're going to run into the occasional rip-off anywhere you go. I should have done my homework first, I got a little impulsive and pulled the trigger too soon. First, the guy has no feedback on Audiogon. I also should have contacted Totem with the serial numbers first. He still has stuff for sale on Craigslist, in New York. But not the Totems. Funny thing, in his Audiogon ad you can see the cables he is selling on Craigslist. That ad says they were driving Totem Forests. This guy just can't stop.

Feanor
05-26-2008, 05:21 AM
I have disputed with Paypal and Audiogon so far. Visa is next. I am in no way slamming the credible people on Audiogon. Seems like an excellent site to do audio business, you're going to run into the occasional rip-off anywhere you go. I should have done my homework first, I got a little impulsive and pulled the trigger too soon. First, the guy has no feedback on Audiogon. ...

Never buy from anyone without feedback. (That makes it tough if you're a first time seller, but too bad.)

As I mentioned, I believe it's Audiogon's latest-greatest policy to post feedback only if the person receiving it approves: effectively you can kiss goodbye to negative feed back on that site.

On eBay I look for 99+% positive if the guy has 200+ transactions. If fewer transaction, say 100+, I look for 97%, then read all the negative feedback for him as a seller. Always check for ID changes and lack of recent feedback: both are bad signs.

Recently eBay changed it's policy to disallow negative feedback to buyers. This is actually a good think because it prevents "retaliatory" feedback from sellers. Most often, (at least in the past), a seller would wait for feedback from the buyer; if he got negative feedback, (justified or not), he would ding the innocent buyer with undeserved negative feedback. This practice is no longer possible according to what I've heard.

dogorman
05-26-2008, 06:21 AM
I would agree to never buy from someone with zero feedback, and offer this friendly suggestion to any zero-feedback sellers who might be reading this thread over our shoulders: start with small stuff like cables. Prove you're trustworthy on fifty dollar transactions. It's worth the money you'll lose from purchasing and reselling ancillaries that you don't actually need, to demonstrate to the rest of the a'gon community that you're as good as your word. I also agree that this particular seller probably isn't intentionally disreputable -- just stupid. The thing is, at that dreaded moment when we must step over into dispute, any remaining good-faith on the part of the disputee is out the window, so we can't base our conclusions about "stupid vs. disreputable" on anything that has happened since then.

Both Audiogon and EBay, in my opinion, need a much more transparent and easy-to-find guide to the etiquette of buying and selling in such environments. I had an EBay'er leave me a neutral feedback because other people sniped my item at the last minute and she had to pay a lot more than she was expecting -- which is just about the most obnoxious and wrong thing that she could have done to me without actually throwing a brick through my window -- and once she'd left it, there was nothing I could do, other than to "reply".

Groundbeef
05-26-2008, 06:53 PM
Recently eBay changed it's policy to disallow negative feedback to buyers. This is actually a good think because it prevents "retaliatory" feedback from sellers. Most often, (at least in the past), a seller would wait for feedback from the buyer; if he got negative feedback, (justified or not), he would ding the innocent buyer with undeserved negative feedback. This practice is no longer possible according to what I've heard.

If you sell on Ebay, that is a TERRIBLE change that was just made. In effect, Ebay has allowed NO type of negative feedback for buyers.

As a seller, I WANT to know who is buying from me. Now, I have no way to tell. As a buyer, if you never pay...so what, no negative feedback. Like to make unreasonable demands?...so what, no repercussions. Like to return goods, usually the broken one you have at home, and use my "good one" as a replacement...no one the wiser..no negative feedback.

The no-neg feeback is BS. Looks good on paper if you are a scam buyer, but no so good for sellers!

Feanor
05-27-2008, 02:22 AM
If you sell on Ebay, that is a TERRIBLE change that was just made. In effect, Ebay has allowed NO type of negative feedback for buyers.

As a seller, I WANT to know who is buying from me. Now, I have no way to tell. As a buyer, if you never pay...so what, no negative feedback. Like to make unreasonable demands?...so what, no repercussions. Like to return goods, usually the broken one you have at home, and use my "good one" as a replacement...no one the wiser..no negative feedback.

The no-neg feeback is BS. Looks good on paper if you are a scam buyer, but no so good for sellers!

I certainly do see your point, GB. However I think the "retaliatory" feedback problem was the bigger issue.

As seller I don't not ship until paid. I have had a couple of slow payers but they paid in the end; nowadays on eBay I stipulate PayPal and that payment must be made in three days. I haven't had the return problem you describe because I sell everything with "no warranty of any kind" and I ship it FOB shipping point.

Groundbeef
05-27-2008, 11:22 AM
I certainly do see your point, GB. However I think the "retaliatory" feedback problem was the bigger issue.

As seller I don't not ship until paid. I have had a couple of slow payers but they paid in the end; nowadays on eBay I stipulate PayPal and that payment must be made in three days. I haven't had the return problem you describe because I sell everything with "no warranty of any kind" and I ship it FOB shipping point.

Well, my friend, I have some BAD news for you.

I have been selling on EBAY for years, and just thought I would point out a few potential problems with your above post.

1. You are in Canada. If you use paypal, and ship to the US, you are a fool to be selling A/V equipment. PayPal is a joke, and offers NO protection for international sellers. If your "customer" pays via PayPal (from US or any other country other than Canada), gets the goods, and THEN intiates a chargeback...guess what. You are screwed. PayPal doesn't offer ANY seller protections for international purchases.

2. You can stipulate ANY payment timeframe you want. If your customer doesn't obide by them, it really doesn't matter. EBAY will not process a complaint for non-payment for 7 days. Cry about it all you want, but the CUSTOMER has 7 days to pay. Per EBAY.

If you sell to another customer after 3 days because thats your "policy", you can be reported by the original buyer for violating the auction, and you risk potential suspension, or becoming NARU (Not a registerd user).

3. By accepting PayPal for purchases, you are FORCED to accept returns. If a customer doesn't like what you sell, they can report it "SNAD (significantly not as described) and PayPal can FORCE you to accept the return. It doesn't matter that you stipulate it in your auction. PayPal will overrule you every time. As an added bonus, your customer can then initiate a chargeback with their visa/mastercard that funded their PayPal purchase, and keep YOUR goods, AND get their money back.

If you don't believe me, go here:

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum.jspa?forumID=97

Post any questions you may have w/regards to PayPal here.

It's only a matter of time until you get burnt. And now that you won't know who is a bad buyer, good luck. Ebay just killed one small way sellers could protect themselves.

As far as feedback extortion goes, this recent move by Ebay has only made the buyers have the upper hand. Now they can pass out negative feedback for ANY slight they may have with the seller. And the seller is SCREWED.

Feanor
05-27-2008, 12:38 PM
Well, my friend, I have some BAD news for you.

I have been selling on EBAY for years, and just thought I would point out a few potential problems with your above post.

1. You are in Canada. If you use paypal, and ship to the US, you are a fool to be selling A/V equipment. PayPal is a joke, and offers NO protection for international sellers. If your "customer" pays via PayPal (from US or any other country other than Canada), gets the goods, and THEN intiates a chargeback...guess what. You are screwed. PayPal doesn't offer ANY seller protections for international purchases.

2. You can stipulate ANY payment timeframe you want. If your customer doesn't obide by them, it really doesn't matter. EBAY will not process a complaint for non-payment for 7 days. Cry about it all you want, but the CUSTOMER has 7 days to pay. Per EBAY.

If you sell to another customer after 3 days because thats your "policy", you can be reported by the original buyer for violating the auction, and you risk potential suspension, or becoming NARU (Not a registerd user).

3. By accepting PayPal for purchases, you are FORCED to accept returns. If a customer doesn't like what you sell, they can report it "SNAD (significantly not as described) and PayPal can FORCE you to accept the return. It doesn't matter that you stipulate it in your auction. PayPal will overrule you every time. As an added bonus, your customer can then initiate a chargeback with their visa/mastercard that funded their PayPal purchase, and keep YOUR goods, AND get their money back.

If you don't believe me, go here:

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum.jspa?forumID=97

Post any questions you may have w/regards to PayPal here.

It's only a matter of time until you get burnt. And now that you won't know who is a bad buyer, good luck. Ebay just killed one small way sellers could protect themselves.

As far as feedback extortion goes, this recent move by Ebay has only made the buyers have the upper hand. Now they can pass out negative feedback for ANY slight they may have with the seller. And the seller is SCREWED.

Beefy, thanks for your informed comments. Thanks also for the eBay forums link.

I'm not a big eBay user, either as buyer or seller, (<40 transactions). The majority of my eBay (and also Audiogon sales) have been into the U.S. and such problems as I've had, have not been due to payment -- I guess I'm just lucky.

As for my terms, I will continue to post them as mentioned. Of course, all my sale items are "as described" and I would contest any SNAD claim even at the risK that I might loose in the end.

If you are most often the seller you might believe that eBay is favoring the buyer with their new policy and you would be right in a degree. However it seems to me that eBay would be more inclined to favor sellers over buyers; (this is clearly the case at Audiogon). Then again eBay's affiliate, PayPal as payments organization might have the opposite perspective.

I buy much more than I sell on eBay and I'm glad to be able leave a negative feedback when they deserve it -- I have several times left no feedback rather than risk retaliation. I admire sellers who will leave positive feedback as soon as payment is received although I have tended to wait to get feedback from my buyer.

Groundbeef
05-27-2008, 01:16 PM
Beefy, thanks for your informed comments. Thanks also for the eBay forums link.

I'm not a big eBay user, either as buyer or seller, (<40 transactions). The majority of my eBay (and also Audiogon sales) have been into the U.S. and such problems as I've had, have not been due to payment -- I guess I'm just lucky..

You have been lucky. And in the future you will never know if your potential buyer is a non-paying, whining, demanding prick.





As for my terms, I will continue to post them as mentioned. Of course, all my sale items are "as described" and I would contest any SNAD claim even at the risK that I might loose in the end..

There is no "risk". On an international sale, you WILL lose. I would insist that international buyers either send cash, or us postal money order (good as cash). If you take PayPal, you are rolling the dice. They "pretend" you have all of these protections, but in reality you don't have any with international payment/buyers. As a buyer, you have some protections.

As an extra bonus for your buyers, do you use standard postal service? Unless you can provide "delivery confirmation" they can simply state they never got the item, and get a refund from PayPal (who will take it from you) and you will never get paid, and out an item.

SNAD can be as little as "the color didn't match the picture", or "there is a small scratch on the bottom where no one will ever see it, but it wasn't disclosed on the auction".

In a PayPal dispute, you don't actually talk to anyone. It's all done via email/complaint console. There is no appeals, or arbitration. PayPal rules, you suffer.



If you are most often the seller you might believe that eBay is favoring the buyer with their new policy and you would be right in a degree. However it seems to me that eBay would be more inclined to favor sellers over buyers; (this is clearly the case at Audiogon). Then again eBay's affiliate, PayPal as payments organization might have the opposite perspective..

Ebay makes NO money off buyers. All the revenue is generated from listings, and sales. They ought to pay a bit more attention to the revenue generators no?




I buy much more than I sell on eBay and I'm glad to be able leave a negative feedback when they deserve it -- I have several times left no feedback rather than risk retaliation. I admire sellers who will leave positive feedback as soon as payment is received although I have tended to wait to get feedback from my buyer.

You buy, and you are glad you can leave negative feedback. But the seller that screwed can't leave any? And that seems fair?

And any seller that leaves feedback after only receiving payment is an idiot. I always confirm via ebay email that the product has been received, is in good working order, and is what they want. Then I wait for pos feedback. Then I reciprocate. Once it's given early, there is nothing to keep the buyer from being an ass. (At least that used to be the case).

Neither PayPal OR Ebay use feedback as any sort of "warrenty" clearinghouse. If your customer initiates a chargeback for SNAD, and they have given pos feedback for "great product, I love it", you will still LOSE in an international dispute.

jimib
05-27-2008, 05:24 PM
I had no intention of stirring up a hornets nest. I do, however, like the information I' am reading. I have purchased a few items from e-bay with no problems. My deal on audiogon is partially my fault. New member+ no feedback. I should have known better. I always pay as soon as I have won or been sent an invoice. This is the last time I purchase anything from an individual online though.

hermanv
05-27-2008, 08:58 PM
I have always had good luck with Audiogon, but not with eBay. I always email the other party, true audiophiles are usually a cinch to spot; given half a chance they'll go on and on about their system or the item they want to buy/sell.

A crook doesn't have the same insight, in my experience they can't discuss anything audio, I'm immediately suspicious if the buyer/seller can't explain why he wants to buy or sell a given product. One seller told me he had a brand new unit in the factory carton, that particular item hadn't been manufactured for 12 years, I aborted the transaction.

Also I've had bad luck with "second chance" offers on eBay, watch out for these.

Of course this doesn't help you with a well meaning flake.

If you are determined to make an international purchase use an agent and escrow the funds.

Feanor
05-28-2008, 02:58 AM
....

Of course this doesn't help you with a well meaning flake.

If you are determined to make an international purchase use an agent and escrow the funds.

I have never used escrow but will consider it for larger transactions going forward. I'll bet it has a few gotchas of its own though. Any escrow service providers you'd care to recommend??

However I think the pitfalls of international sales are somewhat exaggerated, especially between U.S. and Canada. If I were a U.S. resident I might nevertheless avoid international transactions -- why be bothered when the U.S. market is so larger? As a Canadian resident it's difficult to be so picky given Canada is a much smaller market. For myself, I am willing to buy and sell across the U.S. border at least.

For a U.S. resident to ship into Canada all that is really needed is a standard customs declaration (https://webapps.usps.com/customsforms/) or a commercial invoice which form can be obtained online from FedEx or UPS. eBay has some good info for Canadian buyers here (http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sellerguide/shipping/importing.html) that is relevant even if it isn't an eBay transaction.

Selling into the U.S. the biggest problems I have had have been with paperwork. I try to be as helpful as possible for my U.S. buyers by providing (1) a commercial invoice, (2) a "goods returning to the U.S." statement for a U.S.-made product, and (3) an FCC statement for tuners and receivers. But note that the last two items aren't necessary if the cost of the component is less than $200.

Groundbeef
05-28-2008, 03:32 AM
I have never used escrow but will consider it for larger transactions going forward. I'll bet it has a few gotchas of its own though. Any escrow service providers you'd care to recommend??

However I think the pitfalls of international sales are somewhat exaggerated, especially between U.S. and Canada. If I were a U.S. resident I might nevertheless avoid international transactions -- why be bothered when the U.S. market is so larger? As a Canadian resident it's difficult to be so picky given Canada is a much smaller market. For myself, I am willing to buy and sell across the U.S. border at least.

For a U.S. resident to ship into Canada all that is really needed is a standard customs declaration (https://webapps.usps.com/customsforms/) or a commercial invoice which form can be obtained online from FedEx or UPS. eBay has some good info for Canadian buyers here (http://pages.ebay.ca/help/sellerguide/shipping/importing.html) that is relevant even if it isn't an eBay transaction.

Selling into the U.S. the biggest problems I have had have been with paperwork. I try to be as helpful as possible for my U.S. buyers by providing (1) a commercial invoice, (2) a "goods returning to the U.S." statement for a U.S.-made product, and (3) an FCC statement for tuners and receivers. But note that the last two items aren't necessary if the cost of the component is less than $200.

I didn't mean to come off as an oaf, but there are some concerns with international shipping.

And since you use PayPal, you should be careful using it for international shipments as they promise the moon and deliver crap for seller protection.

I use FedEx for shipping, but apparently in Canada if you are receiving something FedEx Ground our UPS Ground, there are some substantial "Brokerage" fees on top of the usual customs fees that Canada charges(duties and taxes).

And coincidently, the only problem I have had selling (on ebay) was a computer video card to a guy in Canada!:cryin:

bobsticks
05-28-2008, 03:45 AM
I have always had good luck with Audiogon, but not with eBay. I always email the other party, true audiophiles are usually a cinch to spot; given half a chance they'll go on and on about their system or the item they want to buy/sell.

A crook doesn't have the same insight, in my experience they can't discuss anything audio, I'm immediately suspicious if the buyer/seller can't explain why he wants to buy or sell a given product. One seller told me he had a brand new unit in the factory carton, that particular item hadn't been manufactured for 12 years, I aborted the transaction.

Also I've had bad luck with "second chance" offers on eBay, watch out for these.

Of course this doesn't help you with a well meaning flake.

If you are determined to make an international purchase use an agent and escrow the funds.

Great advice, herman. I talked with a guy for 45 minutes the other day about some Rega equipment he'd already sold. Audiophiles will go on forever. As a buyer I've always taken the mindset that several hundreds or thousands of my dollars obligates you to at least a few minutes of speach. If not, whatever, there's always someone looking to make a buck.

Groundbeef
05-28-2008, 05:28 AM
Great advice, herman. I talked with a guy for 45 minutes the other day about some Rega equipment he'd already sold. Audiophiles will go on forever. As a buyer I've always taken the mindset that several hundreds or thousands of my dollars obligates you to at least a few minutes of speach. If not, whatever, there's always someone looking to make a buck.

I talked to some dudes in a white van once in a parking lot. They seemed to want to chat about A/V also.

hermanv
05-28-2008, 07:57 AM
I talked to some dudes in a white van once in a parking lot. They seemed to want to chat about A/V also.
There are few guarantees in life. If you have the green, buy from your local bricks and mortar store. Then hope they're still open for business if you have a problem later.

Feanor
05-28-2008, 08:46 AM
...

I use FedEx for shipping, but apparently in Canada if you are receiving something FedEx Ground our UPS Ground, there are some substantial "Brokerage" fees on top of the usual customs fees that Canada charges(duties and taxes).

And coincidently, the only problem I have had selling (on ebay) was a computer video card to a guy in Canada!:cryin:

Yes, FedEx and UPS brokerage fees are -- to put it simply -- extortionary. USPS/Canada post are much better. Canada Post charges the Canadian buyer a flat $5 or $8 depending whether its an expedited shippment. The private carrier's brokerage fees vary depending on the value of the item and whether they collect duty; (they always collect Canadian Federal and provincial taxes unless the value is <$20).

My worst experience was with a US buyer on account of paperwork, specifically I didn't know at the time that I ought to include a 'return to U.S.A certificate' so he got charged duty on a US-made Adcom component. I tried very hard to supply the missing documentation belatedly but it didn't work and he got charged. I reimbursed him for the duty and brokerage he paid, (much less than a Canadian would have paid coming US => Canada). This wasn't a payment-related problem at all.

E-Stat
05-28-2008, 12:35 PM
I have always had good luck with Audiogon, but not with eBay. I always email the other party, true audiophiles are usually a cinch to spot; given half a chance they'll go on and on about their system or the item they want to buy/sell.

Perhaps I'm just charmed, but I've had good luck at both places. Like Feanor, however, I am not a high volume trader. One time I purchased a CD changer from eBay and it arrived DOA. Actually, you could get it to work, but it wasn't consistent. I genuinely tried to fix it - the power switch activated a LONG lever than spanned the depth of the cabinet to a circuit card on the back. If you held it down, it would work. Surely, the seller knew that. But, he took it back and covered shipping expense both ways. I later bought another one for far less - $85 - and it arrived at my door two days after the auction. Works great.


A crook doesn't have the same insight, in my experience they can't discuss anything audio...
My favorite is the "I haven't tried to hook it up, so I don't know if it works" pitch. Sorry, you need to find a buyer who is an imbecile.

rw

Groundbeef
05-28-2008, 01:12 PM
My favorite is the "I haven't tried to hook it up, so I don't know if it works" pitch. Sorry, you need to find a buyer who is an imbecile.

rw

For some defense, some of those sellers may not be A/V enthusiests. They may have picked up some of the equipement at auctions, estate sales, or pawn shops.

Doesn't mean they aren't honest...they might NOT have hooked it up.

jimib
05-30-2008, 02:17 AM
When I called this guy, he knew everything about the Sttafs. He also told me I could call Vince at Totem, they were friends. He said he was selling them to pay for some tube gear he had coming from Japan. On his Audiogon ad, which is still up, he has some other stuff from Japan. His girlfriend is from Japan, I talked to her, she sent me the invoice. Up until yesterday he had audio equipment on craigslist in Manhattan.

hermanv
05-30-2008, 02:35 AM
Like I said, there is little to protect you from a well meaning flake. He's probably not a crook, but obviously it's going to take time to pry the equipment loose. Maybe you should call Vince at Totem to complain, perhaps he can get this clown to move forward or refund your money.

Look for him on eBay as well, maybe you can get him on probation with them. Anything to let him know you've exhausted your patience and are going to start fighting back.

If that doesn't work tell the clown you are going to contact the police in his home town and accuse him of theft. Have a receipt ready to fax to the police, since he sent an invoice I assume there's an address, name and phone.

Groundbeef
05-30-2008, 03:43 AM
Like I said, there is little to protect you from a well meaning flake. He's probably not a crook, but obviously it's going to take time to pry the equipment loose. Maybe you should call Vince at Totem to complain, perhaps he can get this clown to move forward or refund your money..

That might work.




Look for him on eBay as well, maybe you can get him on probation with them. Anything to let him know you've exhausted your patience and are going to start fighting back..

This won't work. It's like complaining to BB that you are getting crappy service from Circuit City. What is Ebay going to do about it? If the fraud (alleged) is not being perpetrated on Ebay, they don't give a rats ass about it. Hell, they barely clamp down on fraud on their own network.



If that doesn't work tell the clown you are going to contact the police in his home town and accuse him of theft. Have a receipt ready to fax to the police, since he sent an invoice I assume there's an address, name and phone.

Even better if the OP initiates a chargeback on his Visa. Local police are FAR to busy to be chasing down real criminals to worry about a non-shipping A/V guy.

Since the OP hasn't exhausted ALL options to get his money back the local police will likely laugh, and hang up.

Call PayPal, Call Visa. Do a chargeback, get money back, start over.

dogorman
05-30-2008, 04:45 AM
I have a suggestion for our original post'er: If your seller claims to know people at Totem (and can even name someone highly-placed by name), why not suggest to him that you're prepared to disclose the whole thing to them? Obviously Totem isn't involved as an interested party because the speakers are second-hand, but if the seller really does have cache with the company higher-ups, he probably values it in an intrinsic way and would be loathe to look like a ripoff artist in front of his cool-man "buddies".

Keep us posted. I was certainly of a mind to rip the guy using his audiogon listing, but then at the last second it occurred to me that doing so could cause more harm than good.

jimib
05-31-2008, 03:37 AM
As of right now audiogn considers it settled, I guess because the seller refuses to respond. I have e-mailed the guy again with no response and he, and his girlfriend, dodges my phone calls. I have both phone numbers and their home address. They also have refused to respond to paypal about the dispute. I believe they have around 165 transactions with paypal, so hopefully they can help resolve it. I also will be disputing with my credit card company today. On a good note, I will hopefully be auditioning B&W 683/684, and Paradigm Monitor 9 v5's today. If I don't like those I'll just keep saving until I can find what I want.

Mr Peabody
05-31-2008, 05:21 AM
Have you heard any Dynaudio?

Groundbeef
05-31-2008, 05:23 AM
Try to resolve w/ PayPal first. Most credit cards give you 60 days (some 90) to file a dispute.

Here is the tricky part. DO NOT PAY THE PORTION OF YOUR BILL (Visa) THAT YOU INTEND TO DISPUTE!!!!!!!!!!

If you pay that portion of the bill you will lose the dispute!!! That is the law. They figure if you paid it, that you were satisfied with it.

If you dispute, generally the finance charges are waived, and if the dispute is found in your favor, it is wiped off your balance.

Good luck!

On a side note, in the US, if you dial *67 then wait for the dial tone, your call will not register on the recievers end with caller ID. So if they are screening your calls, you might try that, and see if they pickup because they don't know who is calling. Just a thought.

mlsstl
05-31-2008, 05:25 AM
Why is this not listed in the "Disputes" section of the Audiogon forum? The ad by Audiogon user Kikiny is still up (and still shows "sale pending").

Do you know if Audiogon has a time period before they declare non-delivery? I see you paid him on May 6 so it hasn't quite been 30 days yet. Could Audiogon just be waiting for a specific time limit to expire?

I also see there are 82 disputes regarding sales discussed in the Audiogon forum for that subject and one of them just started May 21 so it is something they certainly look at. Check http://www.audiogon.com/help/disp/drp.html for the start page on their "dispute resolution process" if you haven't done so yet. I know Audiogon can be rather bureaucratic about you following their existing instructions rather than just emailing them.

Finally, get started on the Paypal/credit card end of things. They should quickly refund your money and debit the seller. That should do more than anything to get his attention.

jimib
05-31-2008, 06:28 AM
Yes, his ad is still up. I started a dispute on audiogon. They e-mailed me back saying that since they have not recieved a response thye would consider what I said as "complete and accurate". However, since they have not recieved a response from kikiny, they said it is considered closed. I have started with paypal and just hung up with Visa. They have credited my account and said they will notify me if they need any further info. I have all e-mails, from this guy and feel I have given him plenty of time to respond. He gets what he gets.
Mr. Peabody
I have not heard any Dynaaudio. I will yell you if no one around here carrys them I won't be buying them . My next pair of speakers will be picked up by me.

mlsstl
05-31-2008, 07:14 AM
jimib wrote: "They e-mailed me back saying that since they have not recieved a response thye would consider what I said as "complete and accurate". However, since they have not recieved a response from kikiny, they said it is considered closed."

So, in other words, they agree with you but aren't going to do anything? It would seem the least they would do is take down the offending ad and close Kikiny's account.

Strange. But Audiogon does have reputation of being rather odd that way.

jimib
06-02-2008, 04:20 PM
After all my grief, finally a reprieve of sorts. I went to my local Paradigm dealer and after auditioning several speakers ended up choosing a set of studio 40"s. I prefer to pay cash so I told him I'd be back next week to pay for them. The dealer is knocking off 20% plus throwing in some decent cables and stands. I'm walking out for under $1400.00. New, in box with warranty. I hope these will cure my fix. Any opinions on the 40"s?

Mr Peabody
06-02-2008, 06:53 PM
What else is in your system?

jimib
06-03-2008, 02:21 AM
Carver CT7 pre/tuner
Marantz CD5001 CD
Carver TFM 24 amp

I have been looking to upgrade my pre/ and amp in the near future however.

Gab
06-03-2008, 11:48 AM
ya, i never buy on ebay , its just personnal, i found out many good stores and no china crap. My last buy from china was fake chips lost 100 $, i am closing my account very soon