Help me Compare Receivers

[aeh10]

Hey all,

I am looking to upgrade current receiver with one of the following:

Yamaha RX-V3800
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
Denon AVR-3808CI

They all are positioned at or around the same price point, I have sampled the Pioneer and was impressed however I have friends that swear Yamaha makes the best receiver, and I have had both good and bad times with my current Denon 2807.

For the money which is better and I realize this will be opinionated, and more equally important what I like my system to sound like personally, but the board's insight is greatly appreciated. In addition are the Faroudja and ABT processors comparable upscale technologies as that might set these receivers apart as well.

Thanks

[pixelthis]

Everybody on this board has gone receiver crazy (maybe its the income tax returns)
so there is a wealth of info on here.
OUT OF your choices I would go with the Yamaha or the denon.
Pioneer used to make some pretty good stuff, but their new stuff reeks, IMHO:1:

[f0rge]

i tested the denon and the yammie in a room and to me the denon sounded better and was only $40 more, so i went that route. you should listen if you can, then decide which you prefer.

the denon does have 1 small advantage in features, it has a PC setup interface that you can access from computers on your network to make changes to just about every setting on the receiver in real time. to me this was great, i just sat on my couch with my laptop and had it all set up in about 20 mins.

i can also tell you from experience that if you're used to the denon it might be hard to go yammie. my old receiver was a yammie and learning a whole new system is a lot harder than learning the new features on a system you're already familiar with.

[OzzieAudiophile]

Hey mate.

My current receiver is a RX-V1300 (6.1 surround, 100 W per channel), it's probably
older than you hah.

Well I had it for at least 6 years, and I have found only 2 things wrong with it.

1. It cannot provide enough juice for my Dyn Audio Contour 1.8 Mark II's 250 W

2. It has no HDMI inputs (6 years ago, none did anyway)

It has more than enough inputs than I can poke a stick at.

One thing about Yam receivers, you won't be short on inputs.

A shame receivers and balanced inputs can't come together. Can't have the best
of both worlds.

I'd highly recommend you download the manuals from all 3 official websites it may
help you take at least 1 of them out of the equation if they Don't have a key feature
you're looking for.

Check how many watts per channel they can supply for 8 and 4 ohms, depending
on your speakers.

You also need to take into account, which one is most likely to be more "future proof".
If there's a feature that you may not necessarily need now, it could turn out to be
most useful in 3 to 5 years time. It's not in your best interest to get something now
which JUST meets your needs, as they are sure to change in 4 to 7 years time.

Read as many reviews from as many websites you can. Take note on any significant
positive and negative feedback for each of the 3, then go to your dealer, and allow them
to address each of those. Worse-case scenario, at least you can find out if he/she is
jerking your chain and doesn't know jack.

I have been encouraged to consider the 3800 myself, but 2-channel is paramount.
I have plenty of time to audition, more than American & Australian IDOL lol...

Good luck, feel free to leave positive feedback and/or ask me questions either on here,
or send me a private message.

Cheers.

EG.

[blackraven]

Denon 3800 uses torroidal power transformers and better power amps.

[shokhead]

Hey all,

I am looking to upgrade current receiver with one of the following:

Yamaha RX-V3800
Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH
Denon AVR-3808CI

They all are positioned at or around the same price point, I have sampled the Pioneer and was impressed however I have friends that swear Yamaha makes the best receiver, and I have had both good and bad times with my current Denon 2807.

For the money which is better and I realize this will be opinionated, and more equally important what I like my system to sound like personally, but the board's insight is greatly appreciated. In addition are the Faroudja and ABT processors comparable upscale technologies as that might set these receivers apart as well.

Thanks

I listened to all of those at Best Buy and the Denon and Yamaha sounded best to me. I got the Denon because it had more features and i could get it cheaper.

[GMichael]

You can't go wrong with any of these. It's all going to be personal preferences. As someone else mentioned, if you are used to Denon, then that may be an easier way to go for you.

[L.J.]

What's wrong with your 2807? Maybe a used power amp would do the trick and save you some $$$.

BTW, since your using a PS3, you don't need HD audio in your AVR. The 2807 will work just fine.

I guess it's always nice to have new toys though. Nice TV dude.

[captjamo]

Everybody on this board has gone receiver crazy (maybe its the income tax returns)
so there is a wealth of info on here.
OUT OF your choices I would go with the Yamaha or the denon.
Pioneer used to make some pretty good stuff, but their new stuff reeks, IMHO:1:

:hand: Can't let you get away with that one Pix. I bought my Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH from a shop that sells Denon, Sony ES, and Yamaha AVreceivers (owned 2 of these and loved them/remote may be the best besides Sony). I was set on the Sony 5300ES for the GUI and a feature called theater sync but it was back ordered and I wanted to act so I bought the 92TXH which was the receiver the sales guy owned and so did many at this shop. They said what they liked about the Pioneers was good warm sound rich in bass and that the auto calibration was near perfect in that you did not even need to tweek the system after running it.
I have to say they were dead on. I change my sub volume from music to movie and thats it.
The Pioneer can be had for 300.00 to 400.00 less than the other receivers as an added bonus.
Last, they are all excellent choices.

[captjamo]

I listened to all of those at Best Buy and the Denon and Yamaha sounded best to me. I got the Denon because it had more features and i could get it cheaper.

:shocked: I've shopped at many BB and have never seen any of these models in there.

I've never seen Denon in BB or Elite.

[captjamo]

The Pioneer is torroidal and uses Faroudja. I've always looked at the total weight as a build quality predictor.

At the risk of seeming like an Elite fanboy ( I don't think I am because I would buy the Denon for it's GUI which was not out when I acted) I just think the price/feature ratio is best with the 94TXH.

[BadAssJazz]

Is the Magnolia HiFi - Best Buy partnership a local thing only?

[shokhead]

:shocked: I've shopped at many BB and have never seen any of these models in there.

I've never seen Denon in BB or Elite.

So you think i told a lie?
Have you been in the one in Lakewood,CA?

[captjamo]

So you think i told a lie?
Have you been in the one in Lakewood,CA?

:blush2: New at threads. Sorry. My point was more complaining that the BB stores I've been to didn't have such select quality items than accusing you of lying.

[shokhead]

:blush2: New at threads. Sorry. My point was more complaining that the BB stores I've been to didn't have such select quality items than accusing you of lying.

It was in the Magnolia part. They had a 3808,2808 and another Denon.
A Yamaha 3800 and a 1800.
A Pio 92 and a 94.

[pixelthis]

:hand: Can't let you get away with that one Pix. I bought my Pioneer Elite VSX-92TXH from a shop that sells Denon, Sony ES, and Yamaha AVreceivers (owned 2 of these and loved them/remote may be the best besides Sony). I was set on the Sony 5300ES for the GUI and a feature called theater sync but it was back ordered and I wanted to act so I bought the 92TXH which was the receiver the sales guy owned and so did many at this shop. They said what they liked about the Pioneers was good warm sound rich in bass and that the auto calibration was near perfect in that you did not even need to tweek the system after running it.
I have to say they were dead on. I change my sub volume from music to movie and thats it.
The Pioneer can be had for 300.00 to 400.00 less than the other receivers as an added bonus.
Last, they are all excellent choices.

In the mid eighties I bought a pioneer integrated amp, ten watts per channel.

It was one of the last "real" pieces of gear pioneer came out with, it became my backup for receiver failure, had it twenty years, worked till the end.
A FRIEND DUG A SX-90 OUTTA A DUMPSTER sold it to me for ten bucks,
during hard times I used as a main receiver , sounded great.
As did my Pioneer turntable, the last turntablle I walked into a store and purchased,
spent most of the eighties with that one.
You like your elite, fine, but in build q and overall q compared to their older stuff its a piece of doo, pure and simple.
But dont fret, most dont build like they used to :1:

[shokhead]

Depends were they are built. China, Japan or where ever it might be. I belive some or all the Denons are Japan if that makes a difference to anyone.

[aeh10]

The Pioneer is torroidal and uses Faroudja. I've always looked at the total weight as a build quality predictor.

At the risk of seeming like an Elite fanboy ( I don't think I am because I would buy the Denon for it's GUI which was not out when I acted) I just think the price/feature ratio is best with the 94TXH.


Thanks all for the help,

captjamo your logic on price/feature ratio is valid and that is where I am at right now. As mentioned in an earlier post on this thread I am not unsatisfied with my Denon, and have learned its quirks however the new A/V receivers have stepped up their game and really are on par with another.

I guess what I want is a receiver that has:

Onkyo's TX-SR905 Silicon Optix HQV chip for video scaling
Pioneer's 94TXH Black piano finish
Denon's 3808CI GUI/Networking, Audyssey Setup
Yamaha's RXV3800 power 140W per channel output

All have pretty similar audio decoding capabilities and unfortunately I can only sample the Yammy and the Elite.

[aeh10]

What's wrong with your 2807? Maybe a used power amp would do the trick and save you some $$$.

BTW, since your using a PS3, you don't need HD audio in your AVR. The 2807 will work just fine.

I guess it's always nice to have new toys though. Nice TV dude.


Did you have a power amp in mind? I hear Rotel power amps are pretty good as well. I was also considering going broke and buying the 4308CI and calling it quits on upgrading for at least 5-7 years, I eventually want to upgrade my speakers and subs to B&W 602's
and a SVS PCi Ultra Cylinder Sub undecided on the exact size and model so if knowing that makes any difference...

Thanks again for the help.


P.S. LJ that is a sweet setup! I may need some help with acoustic padding myself down the road, thanks Ill try to get some pics up too!

[L.J.]

Did you have a power amp in mind? I hear Rotel power amps are pretty good as well. I was also considering going broke and buying the 4308CI and calling it quits on upgrading for at least 5-7 years, I eventually want to upgrade my speakers and subs to B&W 602's
and a SVS PCi Ultra Cylinder Sub undecided on the exact size and model so if knowing that makes any difference...

Thanks again for the help.


P.S. LJ that is a sweet setup! I may need some help with acoustic padding myself down the road, thanks Ill try to get some pics up too!

Forge mentioned the Rotel 1075 in another thread. Nad is another brand usually recommended around here. Others may chime in on more specific models that they are familiar with. i really don't have any personal experience with specific amps but i do understand the benefits and flexibility they provide. Get something nice and all your future needs would be covered. Maybe upgrade your 2807 if needed in the future. It would save you some cash that you could apply toward something else and give you some future proofing when you upgrade your speakers.

Thanks for your thoughts on my setup!

[GMichael]

It was in the Magnolia part. They had a 3808,2808 and another Denon.
A Yamaha 3800 and a 1800.
A Pio 92 and a 94.

Not all BB's have a Magnolia part. He may have to check other locations in his area.

[GMichael]

Forge mentioned the Rotel 1075 in another thread. Nad is another brand usually recommended around here. Others may chime in on more specific models that they are familiar with. i really don't have any personal experience with specific amps but i do understand the benefits and flexibility they provide. Get something nice and all your future needs would be covered. Maybe upgrade your 2807 if needed in the future. It would save you some cash that you could apply toward something else and give you some future proofing when you upgrade your speakers.

Thanks for your thoughts on my setup!

I've been thinking hard about the Emotiva amps. This 2 channel: http://www.emotiva.com/xpa2.html and this 5 channel: http://www.emotiva.com/xpa5.html

Of coarse you could just go with this 7 channel: http://www.emotiva.com/mps2.html
Or this 7 channel: http://www.emotiva.com/lpa1.html

[shokhead]

Don't think i said they do. I said the one i went to had it.

[GMichael]

Don't think i said they do. I said the one i went to had it.
Didn't mean to imply you did. Only pointed out why there was a misunderstanding and offered a solution.

[aeh10]

Now that I think about it...., this is exactly what happened to me last year with the purchase of my 2807 and I compared it to a comparable Yammy.

I am not satisfied with the Faroudja upscaler which the 3808CI and the 94TXH currently employ, and the Yammy 3800 with ABT upscaler has been subject to negative reviews.

And the Onkyo...(never been a big fan) has that damn HQV chipset in them, why?

So this is what I am thinking...buy a new sub probably an SVS Cylinder,
get rid of the Klipsch synergy 12" it was a floor model and I got exactly what I paid for.

Denon has already employed the HQV chip in their high end 5308CI which costs way more than I want and has more than I need.

My guess is that WIFI connectivity will drop down to their 3000series next year and the HQV chip will go to the 4000series, kind of like how Lexus and Toyota pass of technologies at that time I will reevaluate and buy, my heart is set on Denon, I just like the product, however if more A/V receivers employ WIFI connectivity and the HQV chipset I'll probably repost. Also Denon to me combines the best of both worlds in music and movie audio.

I could be wrong but does Yamaha's tradition and feature set suit music enthusiasts?
and does Panasonic's Elite line tend to match what movie enthusiasts want?

I know its a loaded question and may open up a whole new can of beans but I just wanted to know what people who compared and have the current receivers in question thought.

Thanks everybody for their contribution to my decision

[captjamo]

Thanks all for the help,

captjamo your logic on price/feature ratio is valid and that is where I am at right now. As mentioned in an earlier post on this thread I am not unsatisfied with my Denon, and have learned its quirks however the new A/V receivers have stepped up their game and really are on par with another.

I guess what I want is a receiver that has:

Onkyo's TX-SR905 Silicon Optix HQV chip for video scaling
Pioneer's 94TXH Black piano finish
Denon's 3808CI GUI/Networking, Audyssey Setup
Yamaha's RXV3800 power 140W per channel output

All have pretty similar audio decoding capabilities and unfortunately I can only sample the Yammy and the Elite.

:thumbsup: That is what I want. I can get it too. For 6,000.00 to 8,000.00. Aaaaand that won't be happening. But if I was to win the lottery I would head straight for an Anthem AV processor (studio quality Genum video chipset) then maybe to PS Audio for 5 channels of pure cool running/power saving class D power. Oouch! Uuh, that was me getting slapped back to reality.

[captjamo]

It was in the Magnolia part. They had a 3808,2808 and another Denon.
A Yamaha 3800 and a 1800.
A Pio 92 and a 94.

Aright, Shok I get it now. In the Magnolia upscale store within a store concept. Perhaps I should get out more, hmm. Thanks for setting me straight.:o

[captjamo]

In the mid eighties I bought a pioneer integrated amp, ten watts per channel.

It was one of the last "real" pieces of gear pioneer came out with, it became my backup for receiver failure, had it twenty years, worked till the end.
A FRIEND DUG A SX-90 OUTTA A DUMPSTER sold it to me for ten bucks,
during hard times I used as a main receiver , sounded great.
As did my Pioneer turntable, the last turntablle I walked into a store and purchased,
spent most of the eighties with that one.
You like your elite, fine, but in build q and overall q compared to their older stuff its a piece of doo, pure and simple.
But dont fret, most dont build like they used to :1:

Can't disagree with you Pix. I had these Pioneer 3-way bookshelf speakers in 78' with these ridiculous 70's cheesy looking plastic grills on them but they were built like a tank and played very good. Drov'em with a Pio integrated amp 50w CH also built like a tank. I bet that amp is in somebody's auto repair shop blasting to this day. Yup.:sad:

[GMichael]

Can't disagree with you Pix. I had these Pioneer 3-way bookshelf speakers in 78' with these ridiculous 70's cheesy looking plastic grills on them but they were built like a tank and played very good. Drov'em with a Pio integrated amp 50w CH also built like a tank. I bet that amp is in somebody's auto repair shop blasting to this day. Yup.:sad:

I had a pair of Pioneer speakers from this same time frame. Too big to be called bookshelf, but too small to be called towers. There were called Project 100A's. Drove them with a 25 watt Panasonic receiver that had a built in 8-track player/recorder. Sounded amazingly good.

[captjamo]

In the mid eighties I bought a pioneer integrated amp, ten watts per channel.

It was one of the last "real" pieces of gear pioneer came out with, it became my backup for receiver failure, had it twenty years, worked till the end.
A FRIEND DUG A SX-90 OUTTA A DUMPSTER sold it to me for ten bucks,
during hard times I used as a main receiver , sounded great.
As did my Pioneer turntable, the last turntablle I walked into a store and purchased,
spent most of the eighties with that one.
You like your elite, fine, but in build q and overall q compared to their older stuff its a piece of doo, pure and simple.
But dont fret, most dont build like they used to :1:

Can't disagree with you Pix. I had these Pioneer 3-way bookshelf speakers in 78' with these ridiculous 70's cheesy looking plastic grills on them but they were built like a tank and played very good. Drov'em with a Pio integrated amp 50w CH also built like a tank. I bet that amp is in somebody's auto repair shop blasting to this day. Yup.:sad:

[captjamo]

I had a pair of Pioneer speakers from this same time frame. Too big to be called bookshelf, but too small to be called towers. There were called Project 100A's. Drove them with a 25 watt Panasonic receiver that had a built in 8-track player/recorder. Sounded amazingly good.

That sounds right GM. Poco, Crosby, Stills, and Nash, Pablo Cruise, Commodores, and last but definitely not least, the Eagles spinning on the turntable. Yes, those really were the days. :6:

[shokhead]

Didn't mean to imply you did. Only pointed out why there was a misunderstanding and offered a solution.

It's not cheap in that part for sure.