Shhhhh Don't Tell Pix....Vizio is coming out with...A PLASMA!!!!

[Groundbeef]

Oh the humanity...will it ever end.

VIZIO "We use the cheapest parts available" has introduced its first PLASMA. If they had only gotten Pix's memo they wouldn't be in the mess they are now. Oh GOD PLASMA'S DEAD......much wailing an nashing of teeth at VIZIOS headquarters today.

Even SAMS club is selling it...OMG all those customers buying doorstops...what is happening to this country??

The model # is VP50HDTV20A

The irony is delicious. Pix my hats off to you, for calling a trend that doesn't exist in this plane of reality.

[Rich-n-Texas]

GREAT FIND Groundbeef!!! :thumbsup:

Sorry, can't give ya a greenie yet.

[GMichael]

I can see the sparks flying already.
So, is Vizio dead now too?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I think pixelthis IS a Vizio, so...

[JSE]

Oooooooh.........Nooooooooooo. :nonod:

This is not going to go well.


I can't wait! :thumbsup:

[GMichael]

Pix is gone?
When are the services? :17:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Yeah, it's too bad we'll all have to wait 'til tomorrow for his reaction.

[Luvin Da Blues]

You guys come on,

Vizio just bought up all the parts from other manufacturers and wanna turn a buck B4 everyone knows what Pix does.

[GMichael]

I'll do my best Pixy impersonation here:

This has nothing to do with Plasma being a DEAD FORMAT.
The fact that it's being picked up by this GREAT COMPANY has no bearing on it's death.
Don't any of you IDIOTS get it?
You're all TOO STUPID to see the trees through the forest (This is the Yankee version of the saying Pix uses. Just for you Rich)
If you'd all just stop being MINDLESS atomitons you'd see I AM RIGHT!.
Even Vizio will not be able to save this WORTHLESS FORMAT.
It may extend it's life a few more days, but THAT'S ABOUT IT!
Vizio is just doing it's part to help plasma die with a LITTLE respect.
I'm sure that Wooch-a$$ and sir talks-alot will have all kinds of techno-speak that SEEMS to prove me wrong. But that's all just CRAP spilled out by MINDLESS drones and repeated here by FOOLS.
When will ANYONE on this site EVER learn? I know, NEVER!.
Because you are all STUPID poopie-heads. You'll ALL see I'M RIGHT in the end.

AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!

OK Pixie, I know I had my fun at your expense.
Tell me how immature I am and that everyone knows what a fool I am.
Go ahead, slam me good. I'll even turn around so you can get a good grip and plow me hard.:yikes: :ciappa:




Sorry Pix. I owe you a cold one.

[JSE]

I'll do my best Pixy impersonation here:

This has nothing to do with Plasma being a dead format. The fact that it's being picked up by this great company has no bearing on it's death. Don't any of you idiots get it? You're all too stupid to see the trees through the forest (This is the Yankee version of the saying Pix uses. Just for you Rich) If you'd all just stop being mindless atomitons you'd see I am right. Even Vizio will not be able to save this worthless format. It may extend it's life a few more days, but that's about it. Vizio is just doing it's part to help plasma die with a little respect. I'm sure that Wooch-a$$ and sir talks-alot will have all kinds of techno-speak that seems to prove me wrong. But that's all just crap spilled out by mindless drones and repeated here by fools. When will anyone on this site ever learn? I know, never. Because you are all stupid poopie-heads. You'll all see I'm right in the end.

OK Pixie, I know I had my fun at your expense. Tell me how immature I am and that everyone knows what a fool I am. Go ahead, slam me good. I'll even turn around so you can get a good grip and plow me hard.:yikes: :ciappa:




Sorry Pix. I owe you a cold one.

What, no CAPS?

[audio amateur]

I'll do my best Pixy impersonation here:

This has nothing to do with Plasma being a dead format. The fact that it's being picked up by this great company has no bearing on it's death. Don't any of you idiots get it? You're all too stupid to see the trees through the forest (This is the Yankee version of the saying Pix uses. Just for you Rich) If you'd all just stop being mindless atomitons you'd see I am right. Even Vizio will not be able to save this worthless format. It may extend it's life a few more days, but that's about it. Vizio is just doing it's part to help plasma die with a little respect. I'm sure that Wooch-a$$ and sir talks-alot will have all kinds of techno-speak that seems to prove me wrong. But that's all just crap spilled out by mindless drones and repeated here by fools. When will anyone on this site ever learn? I know, never. Because you are all stupid poopie-heads. You'll all see I'm right in the end.

OK Pixie, I know I had my fun at your expense. Tell me how immature I am and that everyone knows what a fool I am. Go ahead, slam me good. I'll even turn around so you can get a good grip and plow me hard.:yikes: :ciappa:




Sorry Pix. I owe you a cold one.
That was freakin' brill, laughed out loud!:D:D:D:D

[GMichael]

What, no CAPS?

Good piont. FIXED!

[JSE]

Good piont. FIXED!

Thank You. :p

[Rich-n-Texas]

:lol: GM, you get a gold star for today!

This thread has the potential to become PRICELESS, just PRICELESS!!! I can see my sig changing now, and a new link in GM's as well.

[GMichael]

That was freakin' brill, laughed out loud!:D:D:D:D

Tanx.

I'll be here the rest of the week, two shows a night.

[E-Stat]

I'll do my best Pixy impersonation here:
Very well done, GM. What is missing, however, are the multiple hard carriage returns he throws in here and there. :)

rw

[GMichael]

Very well done, GM. What is missing, however, are the multiple hard carriage returns he throws in here and there. :)

rw

Thanks.
Can't make everyone happy.
Try now.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Works for me! Now I understand what I'm reading.

[JSE]

Thanks.
Can't make everyone happy.
Try now.


Wow, that's good! Maybe too good?

Hmmmmmmmmm? :ciappa:

[E-Stat]

Can't make everyone happy.
Didn't mean to complain, but you were so close.


Try now.
That's it!!! :D

rw

[Woochifer]

I'll do my best Pixy impersonation here:

This has nothing to do with Plasma being a DEAD FORMAT.
The fact that it's being picked up by this GREAT COMPANY has no bearing on it's death.
Don't any of you IDIOTS get it?
You're all TOO STUPID to see the trees through the forest (This is the Yankee version of the saying Pix uses. Just for you Rich)
If you'd all just stop being MINDLESS atomitons you'd see I AM RIGHT!.
Even Vizio will not be able to save this WORTHLESS FORMAT.
It may extend it's life a few more days, but THAT'S ABOUT IT!
Vizio is just doing it's part to help plasma die with a LITTLE respect.
I'm sure that Wooch-a$$ and sir talks-alot will have all kinds of techno-speak that SEEMS to prove me wrong. But that's all just CRAP spilled out by MINDLESS drones and repeated here by FOOLS.
When will ANYONE on this site EVER learn? I know, NEVER!.
Because you are all STUPID poopie-heads. You'll ALL see I'M RIGHT in the end.

AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!

:lol: Good one GM! Only issue I have is that your language usage is waaaaay too current! No references to "bugaboos" or Cheech and Chong? C'mon! And what about pix's crack ho harem? You aren't going to ignore them, are you? :hand:

[Woochifer]

Oh the humanity...will it ever end.

VIZIO "We use the cheapest parts available" has introduced its first PLASMA. If they had only gotten Pix's memo they wouldn't be in the mess they are now. Oh GOD PLASMA'S DEAD......much wailing an nashing of teeth at VIZIOS headquarters today.

Even SAMS club is selling it...OMG all those customers buying doorstops...what is happening to this country??

The model # is VP50HDTV20A

The irony is delicious. Pix my hats off to you, for calling a trend that doesn't exist in this plane of reality.

Hmmm, I thought this model had been out for a while, but interesting find nonetheless. The Vizio VP50 was part of Home Theater's November roundup evaluation. Of course, you never know whether this current model has any bearing on the model that Home Theater tested because of how Vizio uses multiple outsource suppliers.

[Smokey]

Very well done, GM. What is missing, however, are the multiple hard carriage returns he throws in here and there. :)

rw


I don’t think he does that intentionally.

If you write your post in Microsoft Works and try to copy/paste it into your browser, the post will have multiple hard carriage returns. One have to go back and edit the post in the browser itself to make it look normal. I wish Pixel would do that before posting as it make his posts easier to read.

And GM, that was simply priceless and funny as hell. You only forgot one thing...his famous signature :1:

[pixelthis]

I'll do my best Pixy impersonation here:

This has nothing to do with Plasma being a DEAD FORMAT.
The fact that it's being picked up by this GREAT COMPANY has no bearing on it's death.
Don't any of you IDIOTS get it?
You're all TOO STUPID to see the trees through the forest (This is the Yankee version of the saying Pix uses. Just for you Rich)
If you'd all just stop being MINDLESS atomitons you'd see I AM RIGHT!.
Even Vizio will not be able to save this WORTHLESS FORMAT.
It may extend it's life a few more days, but THAT'S ABOUT IT!
Vizio is just doing it's part to help plasma die with a LITTLE respect.
I'm sure that Wooch-a$$ and sir talks-alot will have all kinds of techno-speak that SEEMS to prove me wrong. But that's all just CRAP spilled out by MINDLESS drones and repeated here by FOOLS.
When will ANYONE on this site EVER learn? I know, NEVER!.
Because you are all STUPID poopie-heads. You'll ALL see I'M RIGHT in the end.

AND YOUR LITTLE DOG TOO!

OK Pixie, I know I had my fun at your expense.
Tell me how immature I am and that everyone knows what a fool I am.
Go ahead, slam me good. I'll even turn around so you can get a good grip and plow me hard.:yikes: :ciappa:



That is SO gay (not that theres anything wrong with that)

Does your wife know about your forays to interstate rest areas?

People think I worship at the feet of VIZIO, truth is they are what they are, a marketing company, however that doesnt mean that their product isnt any good.
Vizio is an opportunity for those who either dont have or dont want to waste money
to get into HT, a noble endevour.
the reason Vizio is lamblasted on this board is the same reason that CD's ARE LAMBLASTED BY VINYL WORSHIPERS.
They provide high q at a reasonable price.
The set I WANT is quite different than the one I can afford, which is often the case.
But if I wait until I can afford one of those I will be waiting a long time.
The way vizio operates they can sell plasma cheap, and good for them
Doesnt change things tho.
MAINLY
plasma is dead




Sorry Pix. I owe you a cold one.

dont be so hard on yourself, your wife said you werent any good, not "cold":1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm a bit dissappointed. You didn't put much emotion into your response pix. I KNOW YOU CAN DO BETTER:1:

[GMichael]

That is SO gay (not that theres anything wrong with that)

Does your wife know about your forays to interstate rest areas?

People think I worship at the feet of VIZIO, truth is they are what they are, a marketing company, however that doesnt mean that their product isnt any good.
Vizio is an opportunity for those who either dont have or dont want to waste money
to get into HT, a noble endevour.
the reason Vizio is lamblasted on this board is the same reason that CD's ARE LAMBLASTED BY VINYL WORSHIPERS.
They provide high q at a reasonable price.
The set I WANT is quite different than the one I can afford, which is often the case.
But if I wait until I can afford one of those I will be waiting a long time.
The way vizio operates they can sell plasma cheap, and good for them
Doesnt change things tho.
MAINLY
plasma is dead





dont be so hard on yourself, your wife said you werent any good, not "cold":1:

I think that my impersonation of Pix was better than yours. Go back and try again. And this time put some feeling in it.

Wooch, Smoke,

You are both right. I'll try to do better next time.
"My license? Isn't it on the bumper back there man?" "Hey, hurry back. I miss you already darling!":1: :arf:

Does anyone here have any wives, mothers or children I could "hang out" with?

[audio amateur]

I don’t think he does that intentionally.

If you write your post in Microsoft Works and try to copy/paste it into your browser, the post will have multiple hard carriage returns. One have to go back and edit the post in the browser itself to make it look normal. I wish Pixel would do that before posting as it make his posts easier to read.

And GM, that was simply priceless and funny as hell. You only forgot one thing...his famous signature :1:
I can't believe we missed that! I didn't pick up on ONE thing that G missed in the original:( luckily, 'y'all' were here to do so

[Groundbeef]

I can't believe we missed that! I didn't pick up on ONE thing that G missed in the original:( luckily, 'y'all' were here to do so

Well, he didn't admit that he was drunk while posting. Thats generally buried in the small print (IE NOT CAPITALIZED).

Also, I think he's a bit off kilter. How can Vizio, the harbringer of all things HD suddenly go backwards 50 years and start making a PLASMA????? Next thing you know, they will be supplying buggy whips, and hand crank ice cream makers.

I'm quite suprised really that they dont require their sets to run on DC.

[pixelthis]

I'm a bit dissappointed. You didn't put much emotion into your response pix. I KNOW YOU CAN DO BETTER:1:

WELL, I really feel sorry for him, he sooooo wants to be me.
Instead of the burnt out, impotent, useless , lice ridden ex hippy that doesnt even know his cd changer plays SACD because he cant understabd the instructions,
that he is.
Hes' like cheech marin without the starlets and money:1:

[pixelthis]

I think that my impersonation of Pix was better than yours. Go back and try again. And this time put some feeling in it.

Wooch, Smoke,

You are both right. I'll try to do better next time.
"My license? Isn't it on the bumper back there man?" "Hey, hurry back. I miss you already darling!":1: :arf:

Does anyone here have any wives, mothers or children I could "hang out" with?


THE only thing you're "trying to impersonate" is a homo sapiens and you're not doing too well.
Maybe if you change your adult diapers you'll be in a better mood

And I would rather have charles manson "hang" out with my relatives :1:

[GMichael]

WELL, I really feel sorry for him, he sooooo wants to be me.
Instead of the burnt out, impotent, useless , lice ridden ex hippy that doesnt even know his cd changer plays SACD because he cant understabd the instructions,
that he is.
Hes' like cheech marin without the starlets and money:1:

Still not up to snuff. Try again.

[GMichael]

THE only thing you're "trying to impersonate" is a homo sapiens and you're not doing too well.
Maybe if you change your adult diapers you'll be in a better mood

And I would rather have charles manson "hang" out with my relatives :1:

A LITTLE better, but still not as good as I know you can do. What's wrong? Are you not feeling well? Maybe you feel sorry for me and don't want to hurt my feelings? Come on Pix. Pretend I'm Sir T and let it rip. You know you want to.
I'll understand.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Still not up to snuff. Try again.
I didn't even know who the HE!! he was talking about, although, I don't recall ever being "LICE RIDDEN"

[GMichael]

I don't recall ever being "LICE RIDDEN"

Me neither. But I have been to Woodstock a few times.

[E-Stat]

If you write your post in Microsoft Works and try to copy/paste it into your browser, the post will have multiple hard carriage returns.
Really? It doesn't happen with Word, Wordpad, or Notepad. Why would Works add carriage returns to a copy text command?

rw

[Feanor]

Really? It doesn't happen with Word, Wordpad, or Notepad. Why would Works add carriage returns to a copy text command?

rw

I find extra CRs get added when I edit my existing posts in Audio Review's own editor. It also happens when I use my TextPad edititor.

[jrhymeammo]

Okay, so I'm not geeking out with some 60" projector watching Williams Shatner in spandex, but I find my Vizio 32 LCD to be quite good.

So, besides Vizio and their dying breads, I'm really starting to get annoyed by AR's 3+ Stooges dissing on Pix and his ignorance, by starting dedicated threads... This is just retarded. Red chicklets to all.

[Rich-n-Texas]

This is the first time I've ever seen you come to his defense Jra (except for that red one you gave me for my Steel Cage thread). What took you so long?

[jrhymeammo]

I'm not on anyone's side. I just think all the threads and posts about certain members' lack of audio experience is unneccesary. We all started with a pair of $10 audiophile speakers and on to something better.

He does show his ugly/bi-polar side, once he's proven wrong(which happens 99% of the time), but if he has 20 members attacking him at the same time, what is he suppposed to do? Obviously he has as much free time as you guys, so he has no option but to retaliate/dig himself deeper.
Everyone on this site has obvious weakness in their audio system and knowledge. Most of us do not get Pix treatment here, because AR is not filled with ultra hi-end audiophiles. We shouldnt act like we are kings of all audio, just because we have slightly better gears than Pix with more knowledge @ AR.

Just my observation....

JRA

[Luvin Da Blues]

He started it.:lol:

Joking, I see your point and we should all be a little more patient/mature and if we can't then at least ignore his threads/posts. I'll try to act my age from now on but it's not gunna be as much fun.

Cheers JRA,

LDB

[Groundbeef]

I'm not on anyone's side. I just think all the threads and posts about certain members' lack of audio experience is unneccesary. We all started with a pair of $10 audiophile speakers and on to something better.

Just my observation....

JRA

Your observation is wrong. My headphones were $14.99 and I still have them. And they were NOT made by Vizio.

As to the original post, it was made somewhat tongue-n-cheek. Based on Pix's original PLASMA IS DEAD post. The ironic thing about this post, is that Vizio (Pix's HD source) is now coming out with a Plasma.

But seeing as I needed to explain it to you, somewhat blunts the joke. Thanks for killing it.

Freakin' Joke Killers...

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Okay, so I'm not geeking out with some 60" projector watching Williams Shatner in spandex, but I find my Vizio 32 LCD to be quite good.

So, besides Vizio and their dying breads, I'm really starting to get annoyed by AR's 3+ Stooges dissing on Pix and his ignorance, by starting dedicated threads... This is just retarded. Red chicklets to all.

I am not one to argue with any respected member of this board, but Pix has brought this on himself. If he did not wallow in his ignorance, there would be no need to diss him. He INSISTS he is correct, and we are all just mortal monkeys without a bit of A/V knowledge. Since this is not true, it becomes necessary to explain it to him. If he would just acknowledge that he does not know his butthole from a cave or tunnel, he would just be another person here trying to learn something. That is not the position he is taking, so he get's the pie's thrown at him. He is the one that choses his destiny here, not us. He has chosen combative, and we are giving him exactly what he deserves for that choice.

Its the 6 stooges by the way. We doubled up LOL.

[Ajani]

I am not one to argue with any respected member of this board, but Pix has brought this on himself. If he did not wallow in his ignorance, there would be no need to diss him. He INSISTS he is correct, and we are all just mortal monkeys without a bit of A/V knowledge. Since this is not true, it becomes necessary to explain it to him. If he would just acknowledge that he does not know his butthole from a cave or tunnel, he would just be another person here trying to learn something. That is not the position he is taking, so he get's the pie's thrown at him. He is the one that choses his destiny here, not us. He has chosen combative, and we are giving him exactly what he deserves for that choice.

Its the 6 stooges by the way. We doubled up LOL.

Undoubtedly Pix’s insistence on being stubborn has led to this situation, but attacking Pix seems about as fair as beating up the retarded kid in the playground.

Also, keep in mind that Pix usually has some sort of a point, even if he usually draws the wrong conclusions. Take for example the debate about whether tweeters or woofers use more power:

I’ll be the first to admit that I have only basic knowledge of physics and electronics, but following that thread it seemed clear to me that Pix was referring to continuous power and everyone else was talking about peak power. So Pix was essentially arguing that during say, a 5 minute song, the tweeter would be constantly employed and drawing on average 30 watts of power for the entire 5 minutes. The woofer might be employed for only 30 seconds total during that song and draw on average 90 watts of power. So in reality the tweeter used more power during that 5 minute song. So up to that point Pix was correct, but from there he drew the conclusion that you should use a more powerful amp to drive a tweeter than a woofer. That conclusion is wrong and contradicts generally accepted audio knowledge. Why? Using the same example: any 50 watt amp should be able to deliver a continuous 30 watts (as long as it has proper ventilation), however that amp will likely clip if it tries to deliver 90 watts (even if for only 30 seconds).

So yeah, Pix brings this on himself, but that doesn’t mean we have to encourage him.

[bobsticks]

Okay, so I'm not geeking out with some 60" projector watching Williams Shatner in spandex, but I find my Vizio 32 LCD to be quite good.

So, besides Vizio and their dying breads, I'm really starting to get annoyed by AR's 3+ Stooges dissing on Pix and his ignorance, by starting dedicated threads... This is just retarded. Red chicklets to all.

Oh Jesus H. Jay, don't get yer panties in a bunch.



WELL, I really feel sorry for him, he sooooo wants to be me.
Instead of the burnt out, impotent, useless , lice ridden ex hippy that doesnt even know his cd changer plays SACD because he cant understabd the instructions,
that he is.
Hes' like cheech marin without the starlets and money

The above is a quote from our resident villein. Pretty sure he can defend himself without you getting all bougie-assed, saccharine goody-goody on everyone else. I don't have any problem with Pix and even agree form time to time with his observations, but I know what he's about. His threads usually go south by the third or fourth post 'cause he'll get all snarky with somebody.

He's like the Todd Fedoruk of audio, he's an instigator. Every team needs one.

K.I.M.

[GMichael]

I'm really starting to get annoyed by AR's 3+ Stooges dissing on Pix and his ignorance, by starting dedicated threads... This is just retarded. Red chicklets to all.

Get over yourself. If you don't like reading our banter with Pix then don't read our posts. He knows that most of us are just playing with him and he plays right back.

[JohnMichael]

Well, he didn't admit that he was drunk while posting. Thats generally buried in the small print (IE NOT CAPITALIZED).

Next thing you know, they will be supplying buggy whips, and hand crank ice cream makers.





Oooh buggy whips and ice cream.

[captjamo]

I saw something about a 1440p plazma HDTV coming out soon. Did anyone else read this? Doesn't sound like plazma is to the mat just yet.

[Luvin Da Blues]

He's like the Todd Fedoruk of audio, he's an instigator. Every team needs one.

Todd played his junior years with my local team the Kelowna Rockets. Didn't really care for him then either.

can you spell...GOON

[Groundbeef]

Todd played his junior years with my local team the Kelowna Rockets. Didn't really care for him then either.

can you spell...GOON
GOON

Now can I have a green chicklet? Its been months without one, and I'm feeling a bit ignored. Nevermind that I haven't been passing them out BECAUSE THE F*CKING GUN IS JAMMED!!!!

[GMichael]

GOON

Now can I have a green chicklet? Its been months without one, and I'm feeling a bit ignored. Nevermind that I haven't been passing them out BECAUSE THE F*CKING GUN IS JAMMED!!!!

Sorry,

Still jammed in your direction. I can fire at strangers though.

[Luvin Da Blues]

GOON

Now can I have a green chicklet? Its been months without one, and I'm feeling a bit ignored. Nevermind that I haven't been passing them out BECAUSE THE F*CKING GUN IS JAMMED!!!!

I'd give ya one GB but my slingshot is broken to.

[Rich-n-Texas]

What're you doing posting on the weekend GM? Wifey away? :smilewinkgrin:

[JohnMichael]

Sorry,

Still jammed in your direction. I can fire at strangers though.




You could try to fire one my way because I feel like we have become strangers. Was it something I said?:sad:

[PAT.P]

:nonod: :17:

[pixelthis]

Okay, so I'm not geeking out with some 60" projector watching Williams Shatner in spandex, but I find my Vizio 32 LCD to be quite good.

So, besides Vizio and their dying breads, I'm really starting to get annoyed by AR's 3+ Stooges dissing on Pix and his ignorance, by starting dedicated threads... This is just retarded. Red chicklets to all.

well, GEE, thanks for your "help" but I need to explain something, I have been doing this for 40 odd years now.
I built a three stage solid state amp when I WAS 17, (using F.E.T. transistors)
Probably couldnt do it today without a kit, but I DID do it.
Put it on top of an old tube fisher fm tuner, sounded quite good.
And did this before you were a wet spot on your mamas undies.
Why do I REFUSE TO ADMIT that I am wrong? Because most of the time
I'M not.
And I am not going to lie and say that something I learned in electronics class is "wrong"
just to win the favor of a bunch on this site that really are a lot more clueless than they think?
NOPE, because I am a GROWNUP.
And an astute observer of human nature, thanks to a career in law enforcement,
started when dyslexia made it increasingly more complicated to compete in electronics.
For instance why do you think GM is always there with the smartass remark?
And always turns a thread away from the subject, to something silly as hell?
Because his knowledge of most subjects is rather , ah, "slim" to put it politely?
Why is sir talky so immature? Because hes a young man impersonating either someone he made up or a real person, maybe a relative, but if he is out of college
yet it would surprize me, if he werent out of high school it would'nt.
I get "into trouble" trying to challenge some people on this board, my bad , they dont have any gray matter to challenge, especially "groundgeek" who has a picture of his
brains as an avatar.
But I must admit that the viciousness of some attacks is rather off putting sometimes,
but again I am a grownup and rather abrasive myself sometimes, a little heat is something I AM TOO USED TO.
Did you know that a plasma burns LESS energy than a LCD? YEP!
At least that is what the clueless wooch says. AND HES' the ONLY one who says it,
its common knowledge that a plasma tv is an energy hog, sometimes burning as much as
thirty times as much energy as an LCD in a year.
But I am "stubborn" because I refuse to admit hes "right" when what he says contradicts
EVERY source you can find on the subject.
And WHEN I say plasma is "dead", well, thats silly.
But there was a photo in the paper today of Sonys new toy, an 11" OLED television,
prices are expected to drop and size to rise, it wont take three years for this form factor to become dominant.
And that should make the snobs on this board happy, they keep citing "black level"
as one of the "great" things about plasma, when the difference between LCD and plasma is slight at best, and glare from plasma negates a lot of that.
Well, they should love OLED, the black level is PERFECT.
And plasma sales are already dropping, considering how long it took a LCD panel to go from 2,000 for 15" TO 550$ for a 32" , and considering that OLED is easier to make,
not only is plasma "DEAD", LCD wont be far behind.
I can tell you from reading thousands of magazines and books and websites on the subject that progressive is better than interlaced.
One reason is that an interlaced picture loses up to half its resolution when theres movement.
But sir talky says "not so" for the simple reason that 1080i IS A HIGHER NUMBER THAN 720P!!!
If the actual, real world resolution of that 1080i picture is 650 lines you'd be lucky,
and then theres interlace artifacts.
My electronics treacher in 1975 told me that the real world rsolution of a ntsc picture
(480i) is around 240 lines, Joe Kane, television guru says pretty much the same thing, advocating 720p as a broadcast standard because its better (which ABC thought also, they broadcast in 720p).
But this ninny says that 1080i is better because 1080 is a higher number than 720,
and I am supposed to genuflect in front of this silly moron and say "I'm sorry, you're right"
???
In spite of the fact that hes talking gibberish?
He talks about his "system" which "some guys from work" cobbled up for him like its a real world standard, when from his description it cost at least 200 grand,
uses CRT projection( ONE crt projector when anybody knows that you need two because the light output is too meager)
Well, he doesnt know, apparently.
And I predicted that HDDVD was "dead" too, not a hard one to make if you know whats going on, but nothing but ridicule from THAT, especially from HD owners who were too clueless to know they were investing in a dino from day one.
And so on.
In other words, if you are waiting for me to "admit" I am wrong when the world agrees with
ME, sorry, I won rather you will admit it or not.
And I WILL KEEP ON WITH THE THANKLESS TASK OF
trying to drill some knowhow into a rather hard set of skulls.:1:

[Groundbeef]

And WHEN I say plasma is "dead", well, thats silly.


I agree. Look at that Pix even agrees that his original arguement was "silly".

Thanks Pix!

[audio amateur]

Well, I have to say that was some pretty mint impersonation of himself?

[GMichael]

You could try to fire one my way because I feel like we have become strangers. Was it something I said?:sad:

Fired one off at ya buddy. You and me strangers? Never.

[GMichael]

well, GEE, thanks for your "help" but I need to explain something, I have been doing this for 40 odd years now.
I built a three stage solid state amp when I WAS 17, (using F.E.T. transistors)
Probably couldnt do it today without a kit, but I DID do it.
Put it on top of an old tube fisher fm tuner, sounded quite good.
And did this before you were a wet spot on your mamas undies.
Why do I REFUSE TO ADMIT that I am wrong? Because most of the time
I'M not.
And I am not going to lie and say that something I learned in electronics class is "wrong"
just to win the favor of a bunch on this site that really are a lot more clueless than they think?
NOPE, because I am a GROWNUP.
And an astute observer of human nature, thanks to a career in law enforcement,
started when dyslexia made it increasingly more complicated to compete in electronics.
For instance why do you think GM is always there with the smartass remark?
And always turns a thread away from the subject, to something silly as hell?
Because his knowledge of most subjects is rather , ah, "slim" to put it politely?
Why is sir talky so immature? Because hes a young man impersonating either someone he made up or a real person, maybe a relative, but if he is out of college
yet it would surprize me, if he werent out of high school it would'nt.
I get "into trouble" trying to challenge some people on this board, my bad , they dont have any gray matter to challenge, especially "groundgeek" who has a picture of his
brains as an avatar.
But I must admit that the viciousness of some attacks is rather off putting sometimes,
but again I am a grownup and rather abrasive myself sometimes, a little heat is something I AM TOO USED TO.
Did you know that a plasma burns LESS energy than a LCD? YEP!
At least that is what the clueless wooch says. AND HES' the ONLY one who says it,
its common knowledge that a plasma tv is an energy hog, sometimes burning as much as
thirty times as much energy as an LCD in a year.
But I am "stubborn" because I refuse to admit hes "right" when what he says contradicts
EVERY source you can find on the subject.
And WHEN I say plasma is "dead", well, thats silly.
But there was a photo in the paper today of Sonys new toy, an 11" OLED television,
prices are expected to drop and size to rise, it wont take three years for this form factor to become dominant.
And that should make the snobs on this board happy, they keep citing "black level"
as one of the "great" things about plasma, when the difference between LCD and plasma is slight at best, and glare from plasma negates a lot of that.
Well, they should love OLED, the black level is PERFECT.
And plasma sales are already dropping, considering how long it took a LCD panel to go from 2,000 for 15" TO 550$ for a 32" , and considering that OLED is easier to make,
not only is plasma "DEAD", LCD wont be far behind.
I can tell you from reading thousands of magazines and books and websites on the subject that progressive is better than interlaced.
One reason is that an interlaced picture loses up to half its resolution when theres movement.
But sir talky says "not so" for the simple reason that 1080i IS A HIGHER NUMBER THAN 720P!!!
If the actual, real world resolution of that 1080i picture is 650 lines you'd be lucky,
and then theres interlace artifacts.
My electronics treacher in 1975 told me that the real world rsolution of a ntsc picture
(480i) is around 240 lines, Joe Kane, television guru says pretty much the same thing, advocating 720p as a broadcast standard because its better (which ABC thought also, they broadcast in 720p).
But this ninny says that 1080i is better because 1080 is a higher number than 720,
and I am supposed to genuflect in front of this silly moron and say "I'm sorry, you're right"
???
In spite of the fact that hes talking gibberish?
He talks about his "system" which "some guys from work" cobbled up for him like its a real world standard, when from his description it cost at least 200 grand,
uses CRT projection( ONE crt projector when anybody knows that you need two because the light output is too meager)
Well, he doesnt know, apparently.
And I predicted that HDDVD was "dead" too, not a hard one to make if you know whats going on, but nothing but ridicule from THAT, especially from HD owners who were too clueless to know they were investing in a dino from day one.
And so on.
In other words, if you are waiting for me to "admit" I am wrong when the world agrees with
ME, sorry, I won rather you will admit it or not.
And I WILL KEEP ON WITH THE THANKLESS TASK OF
trying to drill some knowhow into a rather hard set of skulls.:1:

Now there's the Pix I remember. Welcome back.
At the risk of saying something silly, I enjoyed your post. But after all, I don't know much about these things.;)

[GMichael]

What're you doing posting on the weekend GM? Wifey away? :smilewinkgrin:

Spent all weekend shoveling 10 tons of crushed stones around the driveway. Came in for a short break.

[Rich-n-Texas]

So you DO have a computer at home. :biggrin5:

[GMichael]

So you DO have a computer at home. :biggrin5:

Yup. But the wife is always using it to stay in touch with her family. She does the video phone thing for hours and hours.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Now there's the Pix I remember. Welcome back.
At the risk of saying something silly, I enjoyed your post. But after all, I don't know much about these things.;)
I escaped his wrath this time around. :ihih:

[GMichael]

I escaped his wrath this time around. :ihih:

You didn't jab him with a stick as much as I did. Glad to see him back in form. He was starting to get too nice.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Think I should give him a greenie?

[GMichael]

I think we should both slip him one.

Funny that it took someone defending him, to get under his skin enough to come out of his shell.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm not on anyone's side. I just think all the threads and posts about certain members' lack of audio experience is unneccesary. We all started with a pair of $10 audiophile speakers and on to something better.

He does show his ugly/bi-polar side, once he's proven wrong(which happens 99% of the time), but if he has 20 members attacking him at the same time, what is he suppposed to do? Obviously he has as much free time as you guys, so he has no option but to retaliate/dig himself deeper.
Everyone on this site has obvious weakness in their audio system and knowledge. Most of us do not get Pix treatment here, because AR is not filled with ultra hi-end audiophiles. We shouldnt act like we are kings of all audio, just because we have slightly better gears than Pix with more knowledge @ AR.

Just my observation....

JRA
I'm not on any bodies side either, and I also don't think anybody here has as much history with pix, good AND bad, as I do, but the truth is, there comes a time when you just have to live and let live. It should be obvious to everyone that he's not going anywhere, and in my opinion trading insults with him makes everybody look bad. I don't think it's so much that he's wrong or right more than his personality and communication style just rubs some people the wrong way. It may seem like he's making sharp attacks at people, but I've decided in my own mind that he's just giving what he gets, no more no less. I don't let it bother me anymore but instead make light of it.

I know pix, you don't need ANYBODY to defend you, but just SHUT UP for a minute okay? :rolleyes:


I'm constantly hearing that B&W's like a lot of current. Okay, so what exactly do I gain?

Not as much strain, more coherent imaging, a stronger amp means less chance of clipping.
But the main advantage of seperates is a seperate power supply for every amp.
This is ideal.
And we ALL know that tweeters require a lot of current...
Why is it that I have so few responses in all of my RX-V3800 threads from those who so quickly attack him? Was this the wrong answer? Why didn't his detractors come over and dispute it? It's obvious to me from this that some people like me and some can't be bothered, so why doesn't the same attitude apply to him?

Just MY observation, take it FWIW.

[Ajani]

I'm not on any bodies side either, and I also don't think anybody here has as much history with pix, good AND bad, as I do, but the truth is, there comes a time when you just have to live and let live. It should be obvious to everyone that he's not going anywhere, and in my opinion trading insults with him makes everybody look bad. I don't think it's so much that he's wrong or right more than his personality and communication style just rubs some people the wrong way. It may seem like he's making sharp attacks at people, but I've decided in my own mind that he's just giving what he gets, no more no less. I don't let it bother me anymore but instead make light of it.

I know pix, you don't need ANYBODY to defend you, but just SHUT UP for a minute okay? :rolleyes:



Why is it that I have so few responses in all of my RX-V3800 threads from those who so quickly attack him? Was this the wrong answer? Why didn't his detractors come over and dispute it? It's obvious to me from this that some people like me and some can't be bothered, so why doesn't the same attitude apply to him?

Just MY observation, take it FWIW.

Good post.... Remember to floss after eating this greenie.

[Luvin Da Blues]

It's obvious to me from this that some people like me and some can't be bothered, so why doesn't the same attitude apply to him?

Ah shucks Rich, we likes ya just fine. I, for one, can't be bothered anymore responding to such arrogance and ignorance. Damn, I just did.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hey LDB, why aren't you listing your Oppo 981 in your equipment lineups anymore?

[Luvin Da Blues]

Hey LDB, why aren't you listing your Oppo 981 in your equipment lineups anymore?

Well Rich, I don't list my TV either because I don't have a MC HT system anymore. I just wanted to list my audio equipment and since I've ripped all my CDs to my computer I don't use it as a CD player anymore. I will be getting a dedicated CD with balanced outputs one of these days, then I'll list the new one then.

Does this make any sense???

[Rich-n-Texas]

Sure! So how 'bout selling it to me then? :ihih:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Good post....
Sometimes, sh!t rolls off my fingertips that I have no control over. :o

Remeber to floss after eating this greenie.
Nooooooooooooo...... :cryin:

[Luvin Da Blues]

Sure! So how 'bout selling it to me then? :ihih:


Still use it for DVDs. Besides, shipping from Canada :yikes: would offset any deal I could give you. Hell, they're only $230 CDN. As a rich texan you could sell a longhorn or two to buy one.:ciappa:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Still use it for DVDs. Besides, shipping from Canada :yikes: would offset any deal I could give you.
Yeah, that occured to me later.

Hell, they're only $230 CDN. As a rich texan you could sell a longhorn or two to buy one.:ciappa:
:incazzato: :mad2:

[pixelthis]

I'm not on any bodies side either, and I also don't think anybody here has as much history with pix, good AND bad, as I do, but the truth is, there comes a time when you just have to live and let live. It should be obvious to everyone that he's not going anywhere, and in my opinion trading insults with him makes everybody look bad. I don't think it's so much that he's wrong or right more than his personality and communication style just rubs some people the wrong way. It may seem like he's making sharp attacks at people, but I've decided in my own mind that he's just giving what he gets, no more no less. I don't let it bother me anymore but instead make light of it.

I know pix, you don't need ANYBODY to defend you, but just SHUT UP for a minute okay? :rolleyes:



Why is it that I have so few responses in all of my RX-V3800 threads from those who so quickly attack him? Was this the wrong answer? Why didn't his detractors come over and dispute it? It's obvious to me from this that some people like me and some can't be bothered, so why doesn't the same attitude apply to him?

Just MY observation, take it FWIW.


Nobody attacked this statement because its RIGHT
And no I didnt "forget" you rich, its just that I was pointing out some of the silly s***t
that I have heard on this board. BEING A RELATIVE NO-NOTHING
you havent had your head filled with the myths that tend to collect between the ears
of your average audiophile .
ANYWAY, what receiver manufacturers dont tell ya is that all of those AMPS
SQUEEZED into a tiny box all have to compete for the same piece of power pie.
Usually some one lung deal with some caps half the size they need to be.
The surrounds don't need as much juice, and thats what they are counting on.
You will probably never notice except under extreme circumstances.
Ever turn up a amp and it seems to run outta gas?
HALF THE TIME ITS AN INADEQUATE power supply.
Receivers serve most well because they dont know what they are missing, and the usually small size of a living room and the relative low vollumes used most of the time
help also.
for most a receiver is fine, but for sound with AUTHORITY you need real power.
A Chevy P.O.S will get you to the walmart, but to win NASCAR you need to kick it with
some real horsepower:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

...BEING A RELATIVE NO-NOTHING...
:lol:

See? I actually thought this remark was funny. "RELATIVE" is the key word here. He knows.

[Groundbeef]

:lol:

See? I actually thought this remark was funny. "RELATIVE" is the key word here. He knows.

Who knows? Is that some sort of "inside joke" that you share with your relative, Pix? I didn't know you 2 were relatives. Is he your older brother?

No WONDER your sticking up for him. Jeez man. Sorry for railing on your bro. GM you ought to be ashamed. Making fun of Rich's brother.

[GMichael]

Who knows? Is that some sort of "inside joke" that you share with your relative, Pix? I didn't know you 2 were relatives. Is he your older brother?

No WONDER your sticking up for him. Jeez man. Sorry for railing on your bro. GM you ought to be ashamed. Making fun of Rich's brother.

I'm sorry. I'll try to play nice.

Anyone up for some white water rafting?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Who knows? Is that some sort of "inside joke" that you share with your relative, Pix? I didn't know you 2 were relatives. Is he your older brother?

No WONDER your sticking up for him. Jeez man. Sorry for railing on your bro. GM you ought to be ashamed. Making fun of Rich's brother.
No need to get upset Groundbeef. He'll still be an easy target for you and others in-the-know.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You still cannot put together information correctly. It must be the fact that you have been doing far too much dumpster diving, and the scent of the trash has f*cked up your brain.


can tell you from reading thousands of magazines and books and websites on the subject that progressive is better than interlaced.

1080p IS better than 1080i. 720p IS NOT better than 1080i, especially not with movies. 720p has half the pixel count, and therefore less detail than a 1080i image. 720p only advantage over 1080i is during moving images, and that is only in theory. In the field response times, and motion blurring erase any advantage 720p would have over 1080i


One reason is that an interlaced picture loses up to half its resolution when theres movement.

In theory you are correct. However our eyes and brains do not look at images a frame at a time. It blends frames together to create images, and it does it so fast our eyes cannot perceive that any resolution is lost during refreshing. While fixed panels "paint" the image all at once, there is a lag on and off of the pixels(response time) and a smearing of one image over another(motion blur), and that would erase any advantage progressive would have over interlaced signals that do not suffer from this problem.


But sir talky says "not so" for the simple reason that 1080i IS A HIGHER NUMBER THAN 720P!!!

You are a damn liar a$$hole, I never said any such thing. I always knew you were a stupid old man, but I never knew you were a stupid lying old man. 1080i and 1080p are both 2.07 million pixels. The only difference between the two is that one is all the resolution at once, the other in alternating fields. If interlacing is done well (weaving instead of bobbing) you would be hard pressed to tell the difference at typical viewing distances. 720p is not even a million pixels. So it does not make any difference that it all the resolution on the screen all the time, its less information than 1080i. And even if you are(in theory) only seeing half the resolution during moving images, the refresh and scan rate is so quick, and our eyes and brains are so intelligent, that it sews the images together much quicker than our eyes can detect. My problem with your theories is that they do not present the eye/brain side of the equation. You only present HALF the facts, not the whole picture. You are making lab theory field fact, and it does not work that way.


If the actual, real world resolution of that 1080i picture is 650 lines you'd be lucky,
and then theres interlace artifacts.

You are wrong again, and you are generalizing. Not all CRT based display devices are alike. Your experience is with cheap single gun CRT's. You have no experience with high quality RPTV's that easily exceed 650 lines(Mitsibishi, Toshiba, Hitachi, and Sony top of the line 2004 RPTV's could do 900-1000 lines), and CRT based front projection system can do 1100 lines. In the last generation of quality RPTV and front projection systems, DSP processing either internally, or with outboard processor were very sucessful in dealing with interlacing artifacts. Most interlacing artifacts that are viewable are the result of cheap interlacing algorythms(bobbing). Weaving is far superior, and results in FAR less viewable artifacting. The other side of the coin is downscaling from 1080p to 720p also produces viewable artifacts. Most interlacing artifacts come from the fact that you are presenting an image that was recorded in 480i to 1080i. 1080i to 1080i produces alot less artifacting, and 1080p to 1080i produces almost none. The higher the resolution of the interlaced image, the fewer interlacing artifacts you will see, that is because the lines get closer and closer as the resolution get higher.


My electronics treacher in 1975 told me that the real world rsolution of a ntsc picture
(480i) is around 240 lines, Joe Kane, television guru says pretty much the same thing, advocating 720p as a broadcast standard because its better (which ABC thought also, they broadcast in 720p).

Another lie. Joe Kane has NEVER said any such thing. 480i is 480 lines of resolution on a 4:3 screen. When you letterbox that image at 1:85 or 2:35:1 the lines of resolution drop to 380 and 330 lines. So if your electronics teacher told you that information, then I blame your stupid teachers for making you the same way. The resolution of VHS is 240 lines. ABC chose 720p because the network produces alot of sports programming. 720p is better for fast moving motion, and 1080i is better for static images such as movies and television shows. Its not as easy as progressive is better. Joe Kane DOES say that, because I heard him do so at CES back in 2006 during his hi def workshop.



But this ninny says that 1080i is better because 1080 is a higher number than 720,
and I am supposed to genuflect in front of this silly moron and say "I'm sorry, you're right"
???

1080i is 1920x1080, 720 is 1280x720. 1080i is 2.07 million pixels, 720p is 921,600. Since pixel count does determine the amount of resolution you see, you are right, 1080 is a higher number than 720. And yes, you should say I am sorry, he is right. However you are too stupid to do that.


In spite of the fact that hes talking gibberish?
He talks about his "system" which "some guys from work" cobbled up for him like its a real world standard, when from his description it cost at least 200 grand,
uses CRT projection( ONE crt projector when anybody knows that you need two because the light output is too meager)

Cobble means to repair, and my set was not repaired, it was upgraded and redesigned, very different. It did not cost 200 grand, it didn't even cost 20 grand. It was upgraded and redesigned based on a standard RPTV chassis, using top of the line optics found in front projection projectors. All this is based on existing modified parts, not some unreal world standard. The optics in my set are modified Sony G90 CRT's. It is pretty common to color correct those tubes(I bought mine already done). 9" tubes can be found in Mitsubishi 65" and 73" CRT based RPTV's, and Toshiba top of the line 65"(65h84). As far as light output, you are behind the times again. A front projection system with 9" guns has no problem meeting SMPTE standards on a 300" screen. The G90 can output 1300 lumens, so one will do just fine thanks.

Your problem pixelpuss is you have no experience with CRT beyond the cheap single gun 32 incher. Once you go to the high end, you are lost and trying to tie in your experience with cheap stuff with the well engineered stuff not trying to meet a $300 price point. You are mixing small truths with huge lies and misinformation. You are constantly averting the small detail(which really does matter) just to expedite your point, and that often is where you get lost. You think that just because you read a few magazines, that you know a little something. You are right, you know a LITTLE something, at that is all.

In the future when you quote me, get your $hit right or don't quote me.

[pixelthis]

1080p IS the best format out there, no debating that.
What talky said (and later backtracked on) is that 1080 INTERLACED
is better than 720p, which is BS squared.
As for the rest of his rant, anybody got some designer tranks? Sounds like he needs em

[pixelthis]

Who knows? Is that some sort of "inside joke" that you share with your relative, Pix? I didn't know you 2 were relatives. Is he your older brother?

No WONDER your sticking up for him. Jeez man. Sorry for railing on your bro. GM you ought to be ashamed. Making fun of Rich's brother.


We are not relatives, unlike you and your wife, when you started dating.

Rich is a relative "know nothing" as compared to you, who is a relative knows less than nothing, meaning that what you do know is wrong:1:

[pixelthis]

Another thing I must address that sir talky said during his latest meltdown.
Its not that our eyes and brains are so "smart " that they weave two fields into
a single picture, the theory is that our eyes are too slow to catch the chicanery
going on behind the scenes.
But when theres movement it all falls apart, during casual viewing the pictures fine,
but a progressive picture is A lot more soild and artfact free.
And "cobble" is a word talky used about his system, the famous mercurial system that changes to fit the conversation .
And I had a Mitshu 60in rptvstandard def, very nice, but it showed the failings
of CRT when trying to cast a large picture.
Since the brightness drops as the pitch of a CRT increases, a HD crt would be very compromised.
THIS IS why it was common to use two projectors in tandem for enough brightness to see the picture, which still required absolute darkness :1:

[pixelthis]

And I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but talky also says that 480i is 480 lines of resolution.
Its silly statements like this that lead me to beleive that his ass is full of sand.
480I IS 480 SCAN LINES made up of two fields.
I am constantly trying to explain to laymen that scan lines are different from
lines of resolution.
SCAN LINES are the number of lines the picture is composed of, resolution is how fine
the set can resolve detail, this is TV 101.
Put a test pattern on screen and see how far down the scale you can resolve a line of increasingly finer bars.
Why does the "expert" keep missing the basics?
And joe kane did say that progressive is better than interlaced, not once but several times. I read it in a long ago issue of Widescreen review :1:

[Groundbeef]

We are not relatives, unlike you and your wife, when you started dating.

Rich is a relative "know nothing" as compared to you, who is a relative knows less than nothing, meaning that what you do know is wrong:1:

Really? An incest joke? Is that the best you have?:rolleyes5:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Another thing I must address that sir talky said during his latest meltdown.
Its not that our eyes and brains are so "smart " that they weave two fields into
a single picture, the theory is that our eyes are too slow to catch the chicanery
going on behind the scenes.

The process is too fast, our eyes are too slow. What the hell is the difference stupid?


But when theres movement it all falls apart, during casual viewing the pictures fine,
but a progressive picture is A lot more soild and artfact free.

A progressive picture IN THEORY is more solid. However theory usually fails in the field when actual devices are used. In the field, LCD and Plasmas suffer from motion blur, and slow response times which kills the theory dead. You seem to love to side step this fact.



And "cobble" is a word talky used about his system, the famous mercurial system that changes to fit the conversation

You are lying again pixeliar. I never EVER mentioned the word cobble, EVER. Aside from your obvious stupidity, your lying has further killed your credibility.
.

And I had a Mitshu 60in rptvstandard def, very nice, but it showed the failings
of CRT when trying to cast a large picture.

Oh yeah, your cheap a$$ has had everything under the sun. Next you will be telling us you invented the internet. Your 60" was probably the cheap model with 7" CRT's.


Since the brightness drops as the pitch of a CRT increases, a HD crt would be very compromised.

My television meets SMPTE standards for light output on a 65" screen with no problem at all even with 1440p test signals. The Sony G90 meets SMPTE standards on a 300" screen with no problem at all with 1080p signals. HD CRT's are used in every mastering house in Hollywood. So where is your proof of compromise?


THIS IS why it was common to use two projectors in tandem for enough brightness to see the picture, which still required absolute darkness :1:

Two stacked projectors are only used for screen sizes larger than 300". Tell the whole story pixelidiot.

You have a real problem with presenting the WHOLE picture. You put out bits and pieces of a point without regards to the other side of the equation. One deminsional points are useless when discussing complex issues. Generalization are also not helpful because you are not addressing the fact that internal or external processing can be used to mitigate artifacts that are inherent to any visual device.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

And I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but talky also says that 480i is 480 lines of resolution.
Its silly statements like this that lead me to beleive that his ass is full of sand.
480I IS 480 SCAN LINES made up of two fields.

We do not look at televisions scan lines, the process of scanning is too quick to even make this a point of discussion. NTSC television is based on 525 scan lines of picture information presented in two fields, each field representing half resolution. 486 of those lines are what we use for visual information. Since the temporal effect of our eyes and brains do not represent a half field viewing, you cannot measure resolution based on half field information. You seem to like to do this. Your 240 lines is only half the amount of resolution our eyes see at any given time. So your THEORY is correct, but you cannot measure theory, you have to measure what the eye actually captures.


I am constantly trying to explain to laymen that scan lines are different from
lines of resolution.
SCAN LINES are the number of lines the picture is composed of, resolution is how fine
the set can resolve detail, this is TV 101.

Hence, the more scan lines that compose the picture, the more resolution you can see. That is why there is more information in a 1080i signal than in a 480i signal. You need to put the pieces together.


Put a test pattern on screen and see how far down the scale you can resolve a line of increasingly finer bars.
Why does the "expert" keep missing the basics?
And joe kane did say that progressive is better than interlaced, not once but several times. I read it in a long ago issue of Widescreen review :1:

This is a duh statement. The more lines, the more of the finer bars you can resolve.

Here is the problem with what you present. Its only half the information. We have not talked about scan rate, how far you are setting from the device, how well the internal or external processing deals with motion and artifacts, refresh rates, and visual acuity. You are just looking at a single deminsion of theory without all of the other factors that complete the whole picture.

Can you tell me if CRT is so compromised why all high definition programming from monitoring to mastering done on CRT based devices?

Once again you are taking Joe Kane's comment out of context. I have subscribed to Widescreen review since it started. I have every issue going back to 1996, and I have read everything he has published in that magazine.

Joe Kane has said that progressive is best when we speak of 1080p. He has never said that 720p was better than 1080i EXCEPT when fast motion is taken into consideration. For film based material with a lot of static images, 1080i is better than 720p because their is more information on the screen in 1080i. 1080p is best overall, and I think everyone acknowledges this. He has also said that this whole 1080p versus 1080i arguement fails when you take viewing distance and the 24fps frame rate for film into consideration because of the conversion from 24fps to 60ftps. Tell the whole story.

[Smokey]

I am constantly trying to explain to laymen that scan lines are different from lines of resolution. SCAN LINES are the number of lines the picture is composed of, resolution is how fine the set can resolve detail, this is TV 101.


As Sir TT explained, that statement is completely false.

Scan Lines are part of resolution (vertical resolution). Why do you think we moved from 480 scan lines to 720 and 1080 scan lines for HD? Because 720/1080 means more scan lines AKA more resolution (answered my own question :D)

If you look at TV resolution specifications in the manual, you will note that both horizontal and vertical resolution are stated as either 640 x 480, 1280×720 or 1920x1080 i/p as both numbers will determine TV’s total resolution. The higher the scan lines, the more resolution a TV will have.

[RoyY51]

This is really getting good...could someone pass the popcorn?

[jrhymeammo]

You just gotta chill out a bit, old man.
I think 99% of us here can learn a thing or two from your audio knowledge. But you gotta learn to take in others' advice, before spitting off your knowledge.



well, GEE, thanks for your "help" but I need to explain something, I have been doing this for 40 odd years now.
I built a three stage solid state amp when I WAS 17, (using F.E.T. transistors)
Probably couldnt do it today without a kit, but I DID do it.
Put it on top of an old tube fisher fm tuner, sounded quite good.
And did this before you were a wet spot on your mamas undies.
Why do I REFUSE TO ADMIT that I am wrong? Because most of the time
I'M not.
And I am not going to lie and say that something I learned in electronics class is "wrong"
just to win the favor of a bunch on this site that really are a lot more clueless than they think?
NOPE, because I am a GROWNUP.



And an astute observer of human nature, thanks to a career in law enforcement,

I SMELL BACON!!!!




started when dyslexia made it increasingly more complicated to compete in electronics.
For instance why do you think GM is always there with the smartass remark?
And always turns a thread away from the subject, to something silly as hell?
Because his knowledge of most subjects is rather , ah, "slim" to put it politely?
Why is sir talky so immature? Because hes a young man impersonating either someone he made up or a real person, maybe a relative, but if he is out of college
yet it would surprize me, if he werent out of high school it would'nt.
I get "into trouble" trying to challenge some people on this board, my bad , they dont have any gray matter to challenge, especially "groundgeek" who has a picture of his
brains as an avatar.
But I must admit that the viciousness of some attacks is rather off putting sometimes,
but again I am a grownup and rather abrasive myself sometimes, a little heat is something I AM TOO USED TO.
Did you know that a plasma burns LESS energy than a LCD? YEP!
At least that is what the clueless wooch says. AND HES' the ONLY one who says it,
its common knowledge that a plasma tv is an energy hog, sometimes burning as much as
thirty times as much energy as an LCD in a year.
But I am "stubborn" because I refuse to admit hes "right" when what he says contradicts
EVERY source you can find on the subject.
And WHEN I say plasma is "dead", well, thats silly.
But there was a photo in the paper today of Sonys new toy, an 11" OLED television,
prices are expected to drop and size to rise, it wont take three years for this form factor to become dominant.
And that should make the snobs on this board happy, they keep citing "black level"
as one of the "great" things about plasma, when the difference between LCD and plasma is slight at best, and glare from plasma negates a lot of that.
Well, they should love OLED, the black level is PERFECT.
And plasma sales are already dropping, considering how long it took a LCD panel to go from 2,000 for 15" TO 550$ for a 32" , and considering that OLED is easier to make,
not only is plasma "DEAD", LCD wont be far behind.
I can tell you from reading thousands of magazines and books and websites on the subject that progressive is better than interlaced.
One reason is that an interlaced picture loses up to half its resolution when theres movement.
But sir talky says "not so" for the simple reason that 1080i IS A HIGHER NUMBER THAN 720P!!!
If the actual, real world resolution of that 1080i picture is 650 lines you'd be lucky,
and then theres interlace artifacts.
My electronics treacher in 1975 told me that the real world rsolution of a ntsc picture
(480i) is around 240 lines, Joe Kane, television guru says pretty much the same thing, advocating 720p as a broadcast standard because its better (which ABC thought also, they broadcast in 720p).
But this ninny says that 1080i is better because 1080 is a higher number than 720,
and I am supposed to genuflect in front of this silly moron and say "I'm sorry, you're right"
???
In spite of the fact that hes talking gibberish?
He talks about his "system" which "some guys from work" cobbled up for him like its a real world standard, when from his description it cost at least 200 grand,
uses CRT projection( ONE crt projector when anybody knows that you need two because the light output is too meager)
Well, he doesnt know, apparently.
And I predicted that HDDVD was "dead" too, not a hard one to make if you know whats going on, but nothing but ridicule from THAT, especially from HD owners who were too clueless to know they were investing in a dino from day one.
And so on.
In other words, if you are waiting for me to "admit" I am wrong when the world agrees with
ME, sorry, I won rather you will admit it or not.
And I WILL KEEP ON WITH THE THANKLESS TASK OF
trying to drill some knowhow into a rather hard set of skulls.:1:

Also retarded.
Seriously, if you dont chill out we are going to have you kicked off of this site. I do agree with some of your comments above, but your remarks about other members is about as original as "I SMELL BACON".

Seriously, calm down.

JRA

[jrhymeammo]

Why is it that I have so few responses in all of my RX-V3800 threads from those who so quickly attack him? Was this the wrong answer? Why didn't his detractors come over and dispute it? It's obvious to me from this that some people like me and some can't be bothered, so why doesn't the same attitude apply to him?

Just MY observation, take it FWIW.

Statement above, was that directed for my attention? If so, please explain, Do I need to read up on your RX-3800 thread? I'm not quite following you here.

JRA

[bobsticks]

Oh my.

[Woochifer]

Why do I REFUSE TO ADMIT that I am wrong? Because most of the time
I'M not.

:out:


And I am not going to lie and say that something I learned in electronics class is "wrong"
just to win the favor of a bunch on this site that really are a lot more clueless than they think?

No, you're going to lie, just because that's the only way that you can maintain this delusion that you're never wrong! C'mon, the truth ain't so bad. Besides, with everyone wising up to your charade, it's not like you got anyone left on this board that you can fool anyway! :cool:


NOPE, because I am a GROWNUP.

Actually, you're just old. :ciappa:


And an astute observer of human nature, thanks to a career in law enforcement,

......self-aggrandizing nonsense snipped ......



Why is sir talky so immature? Because hes a young man impersonating either someone he made up or a real person, maybe a relative, but if he is out of college
yet it would surprize me, if he werent out of high school it would'nt.

And given that I personally know Sir T, I can safely say that your "astute" observations about him are just as off-base as your grasp on most home theater topics! Of course, your "astute" observation about "human nature" (and everything else for that matter) is that we're all DOOMED, DOOMED I TELL YOU DOOMED! DID I MENTION DOOMED? :3:


I get "into trouble" trying to challenge some people on this board, my bad , they dont have any gray matter to challenge, especially "groundgeek" who has a picture of his
brains as an avatar.
But I must admit that the viciousness of some attacks is rather off putting sometimes,
but again I am a grownup and rather abrasive myself sometimes, a little heat is something I AM TOO USED TO.

All you're getting is a taste of what you dish out. Don't like the flavor? Learn how to cook better! :17:


Did you know that a plasma burns LESS energy than a LCD? YEP!
At least that is what the clueless wooch says. AND HES' the ONLY one who says it,

Couldn't win this argument the first two times, so here you go repeating the same idiocy yet again! I've stated before, and I'll state it again, plasma CAN consume less energy than LCD, and energy consumption tests prove this.

Once again, here's the quote from the January 2006 issue of Home Theater magazine, which relies on actual power consumption measurements, rather than factually and grammatically challenged rantings ...

Out of the box, the plasma is slightly better than the LCD, at 194 watts. Drop the contrast to 80 percent of its maximum (where you'd expect a calibrated set to be, more or less), and now you're down to 162 watts. That's a savings of $0.40 each month (calculated based on two hours per day of use) over the full-lamp LCD!

In that case, using out of the box settings running identical test signals, the plasma set was already using 38% less power than an equivalent LCD set. So, I'm obviously not the ONLY one saying this. And this ain't the first time I've knocked down this pathetic generalization, and it sadly won't be the last, given your demonstrated incapacity to let it go! I've already beaten you down on this point twice, I guess you're now gunning for three! :cool: This is like watching a recorded sporting event -- repeating the same scene over and over doesn't change the outcome, but I guess you'll keep trying!


its common knowledge that a plasma tv is an energy hog, sometimes burning as much as
thirty times as much energy as an LCD in a year.

Common knowledge or another one of your common lies?

30X, where's your source on that? I'd sure like to see it! Maybe if that LCD is on standby, you might have a case, but otherwise, we'll just have to add it to the long list of unsupportable nonsense that you've posted.

Couldn't win this argument on two other threads, so you keep repeating it yet again!


But I am "stubborn" because I refuse to admit hes "right" when what he says contradicts
EVERY source you can find on the subject.

Either your reading comprehension is worse than even I suspected, or you're flat out lying yet again. I already cited a reputable source that measured real world conditions under which plasma uses less energy than LCD, and you continue to deny deny deny -- how sad to live in such a state! :hand:


But there was a photo in the paper today of Sonys new toy, an 11" OLED television,
prices are expected to drop and size to rise, it wont take three years for this form factor to become dominant.

Hmmm, and given that Samsung is projecting at least two more years before anything close to 40" will even come onto the market, you're saying that OLED will come to market and achieve market dominance in only one year? Where's your evidence that this kind of rapid adoption is even possible, since it has never happened before and you don't know squat about any production issues or line capacity limitations that might crop up within that time?


And that should make the snobs on this board happy, they keep citing "black level"
as one of the "great" things about plasma, when the difference between LCD and plasma is slight at best, and glare from plasma negates a lot of that.

And as I've stated before, if OLED is all that it's cracked up to be, then I'll be glad to see LCD and plasma gone, given that both technologies have significant drawbacks.

Of course, you ignore that point, and ignore the sizable advantage that plasma has over LCD in the area of motion resolution. 1080p plasmas can generally display 800 to 900 lines of resolution with moving images, while even 120 Hz LCDs have a motion resolution of less than 600. Oh, and BTW, Home Theater's lowest motion resolution measurement in their November 2007 roundup was with a 1080p Vizio LCD, which had a motion resolution of 380 -- this means that with moving images, the resolution on that LCD set dropped BELOW DVD resolution! Tell me again how these differences are "slight at best"?


And plasma sales are already dropping, considering how long it took a LCD panel to go from 2,000 for 15" TO 550$ for a 32" , and considering that OLED is easier to make,
not only is plasma "DEAD", LCD wont be far behind.

Well, that's all well and good, but given that the only set on the market RIGHT NOW measures 11" and costs $2,500, OLED doesn't mean a thing for anyone who's in the market for a TV RIGHT NOW.


In other words, if you are waiting for me to "admit" I am wrong when the world agrees with
ME, sorry, I won rather you will admit it or not.
And I WILL KEEP ON WITH THE THANKLESS TASK OF
trying to drill some knowhow into a rather hard set of skulls.:1:

:lol:

Actually, your thankless task is trying to make half-truths and debunked nonsense sound coherent! And on that count, you're slacking off, your ramblings are still as incomprehensible as ever ... c'mon get to it! :ciappa:

[Woochifer]

Really? An incest joke? Is that the best you have?:rolleyes5:

Considering that his other choices were more tired crack ho references or more of his wishful fantasies about people's wives and mothers, the answer's obvious! :lol:

Then again, I'm surprised he didn't try bringing your kids into his stupid joke. Strangely, he was quite proud of himself when he brought my daughter into one of his personal attacks -- as sure a sign as any that he's run out of material, not that he had much to begin with! :out:

[pixelthis]

Really? An incest joke? Is that the best you have?:rolleyes5:

I meant "relative" as in theory of relativity or a buffalo butt is relatively beautiful compared to your face.
Never said anything about incest, beem swiming in the shallow end of the gene pool again?:1::hand:

[pixelthis]

The process is too fast, our eyes are too slow. What the hell is the difference stupid?

Everything, you said our super eyes and brains "weave everything together,
actually the opposite is true.
Our eyes have nothing to do with it, actually, its our brains that cant catch up.
The difference is that you are saying our brains put things together, I say our brains are getting too much info to process and therefore 24 (or 60) frames blur together into a moving picture




A progressive picture IN THEORY is more solid. However theory usually fails in the field when actual devices are used. In the field, LCD and Plasmas suffer from motion blur, and slow response times which kills the theory dead. You seem to love to side step this fact.


YOU'RE the one confusing "fact" with theory, a progressive picture is more solid than an interlaced, thats a FACT, wheather or not it looks better than interlaced is an OPINION




You are lying again pixeliar. I never EVER mentioned the word cobble, EVER. Aside from your obvious stupidity, your lying has further killed your credibility. .


If I am wrong on this I apologise but I bet I am not.
One of the things that bothers me about you is calling a "lie" what is an honest mistake (if indeed it is)



Oh yeah, your cheap a$$ has had everything under the sun. Next you will be telling us you invented the internet. Your 60" was probably the cheap model with 7" CRT's.

Yeah my cheap "ass" had a lot of gear, and if I had it to do over I would have held onto my stuff longer, almost went broke changing things all the time
RECEIVERS
Realistic (1) Denon (2) pioneer (1) sony (1) yamaha (2) integra (1)

Integrated amps
Pioneer (1)

SPEAKERS (SETS)
OPTIMUS (2) Genesis (1) bose (1) advent (new not old) (1) B&W (2) klipsch (1)

SUBS
jbl (1) klipsch (1) yamaha (2) B&W (2)

MONITORS
SONY (5) SAMSUNG (2) vizio (1) mitshibushi (1) magnavox (1) zenith (1) toshiba (1)
panasonic (1) rca (1)

CD PLAYERS (sorry, no supercomputer available)

TURNTABLES
pioneer (1) realistic (1) technics (2)

VCRS
THREE SVHS, a zillion VHS, including a 500$ sony pro vcr bought in 94

DVD players
panasonic (2) one a six hundred dvdaudio toshiba (1) samsung (1) sony (2) (incld a recorder)


STANDS
they invented MDF to save a rainfiorest from my ass

REMOTES
PRONTO (1) 500 bucks MARANTZ rc2000 mkII (1) 230 bucks SONY touchpad 200bucks

This is a SAMPLE at least


Considering 9" CRT's cost ten grand yeah you're right, but there is NOTHING
ABOUT MITSHUBISHI that is cheap
They made some bad turns, which is why they are rarely mentioned on this board
(no plasma or LCD) but they make great sets


My television meets SMPTE standards for light output on a 65" screen with no problem at all even with 1440p test signals. The Sony G90 meets SMPTE standards on a 300" screen with no problem at all with 1080p signals. HD CRT's are used in every mastering house in Hollywood. So where is your proof of compromise?

No "compromise", you just need a dark room to watch one in



Two stacked projectors are only used for screen sizes larger than 300". Tell the whole story pixelidiot.


the whole story (besides the "hole" in your head) is that twin projectors were common in
a lot of installs, not just 300".
But thats ancient history now, now most just use a DLP or LCD, a DLP projector
from circuit city can easily match one of the older "crt" dinosaurs.
even an old burnout like GM knows this, why are you having so much trouble with it?
Spent a tad too much on stuff that got obsolete a bit too fast?:1:



You have a real problem with presenting the WHOLE picture. You put out bits and pieces of a point without regards to the other side of the equation. One deminsional points are useless when discussing complex issues. Generalization are also not helpful because you are not addressing the fact that internal or external processing can be used to mitigate artifacts that are inherent to any visual device.

Mitigate but not get rid of entirely.
You can engineer the hell outta screen doors on a submarine but the basic idea
you are starting out with is flawed.
You start out in the wrong direction you will always wind up in the wrong place.
And the "complex" argument is something a lot hide behind.
A LOT OF ELECTRONIC processes are actually quite simple, making them work requires a lot of gear sometimes.
CRT is a dead technology, the way business works they will be used until they are so totally gone they arent worth keeping, doesnt mean they are optimum.
I have lived with these beasts and they have served me well, but there is just a better
way of showing pictures now, and like the gramophone and teh eight track they are history
there are just better ways of showing a video than solid glass vaccume "hernia inducers"
that are dangerous, expensive and realitivly short lived :1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Statement above, was that directed for my attention? If so, please explain, Do I need to read up on your RX-3800 thread? I'm not quite following you here.

JRA
Didn't somebody already tell you to get over yourself JRA? If I had a specific comment or concern with you I'd have PM'ed you.

[GMichael]

Wow. The heat is really picking up around here.
LJ? Got anymore of that popcorn?
Nevermind. I'll just throw some kernels on my computer.

[Groundbeef]

I meant "relative" as in theory of relativity or a buffalo butt is relatively beautiful compared to your face.
Never said anything about incest, beem swiming in the shallow end of the gene pool again?:1::hand:

Umm, no I re-read your original post. You said that you and Rich were not "relatives", "Like YOU and YOUR WIFE were when you started dating.".

Like I said. An Incest Joke? Apparently you don't even realize when you are making jokes now.

So who's on first?

And GM, pass the popcorn. But wash your hands first. I don't know where they have been.

[GMichael]

And GM, pass the popcorn. But wash your hands first. I don't know where they have been.

I do. You won't need the salt or the butter.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Everything, you said our super eyes and brains "weave everything together,
actually the opposite is true.
Our eyes have nothing to do with it, actually, its our brains that cant catch up.
The difference is that you are saying our brains put things together, I say our brains are getting too much info to process and therefore 24 (or 60) frames blur together into a moving picture

This statement does not make any sense at all, but this is pretty typical of you. Can you explain the difference between the process is too fast for our eyes and brain to detect, and our brain is too slow to detect. They are just too different ways of saying the same thing. Geeze, you must have been at the top of the 1764 graduating class of hickville high.


YOU'RE the one confusing "fact" with theory, a progressive picture is more solid than an interlaced, thats a FACT, wheather or not it looks better than interlaced is an OPINION

I am afraid when you are talking about moving images, SOLID is not a very descriptive word. Study after study has proven that a normal viewing distances most folks cannot detect any differences between 1080p and 1080i well done. So your "fact" is in an imaginary space between your ears where your brain is supposed to be. .



If I am wrong on this I apologise but I bet I am not.
One of the things that bothers me about you is calling a "lie" what is an honest mistake (if indeed it is)

Honest mistake?? You have got to be kidding me. An honest mistake would state "I think he said cobbled together", not "cobbled together" in a very definitive fashion. You lied, and you don't want to admit you did so you can maintain some fake illusion that you are never wrong. Well, your a$$ was wrong, so there goes your little illusion.


Yeah my cheap "ass" had a lot of gear, and if I had it to do over I would have held onto my stuff longer, almost went broke changing things all the time
RECEIVERS
Realistic (1) Denon (2) pioneer (1) sony (1) yamaha (2) integra (1)

Integrated amps
Pioneer (1)

SPEAKERS (SETS)
OPTIMUS (2) Genesis (1) bose (1) advent (new not old) (1) B&W (2) klipsch (1)

SUBS
jbl (1) klipsch (1) yamaha (2) B&W (2)

MONITORS
SONY (5) SAMSUNG (2) vizio (1) mitshibushi (1) magnavox (1) zenith (1) toshiba (1)
panasonic (1) rca (1)

CD PLAYERS (sorry, no supercomputer available)

TURNTABLES
pioneer (1) realistic (1) technics (2)

VCRS
THREE SVHS, a zillion VHS, including a 500$ sony pro vcr bought in 94

DVD players
panasonic (2) one a six hundred dvdaudio toshiba (1) samsung (1) sony (2) (incld a recorder)


STANDS
they invented MDF to save a rainfiorest from my ass

REMOTES
PRONTO (1) 500 bucks MARANTZ rc2000 mkII (1) 230 bucks SONY touchpad 200bucks

This is a SAMPLE at least

This is mighty impressive for a dumpster diver. Imagine, going broke purchasing low end equipment. I guess this is the best a failed janitor can do. Did you sell your soul to the devil to pay for it?


Considering 9" CRT's cost ten grand yeah you're right, but there is NOTHING
ABOUT MITSHUBISHI that is cheap
They made some bad turns, which is why they are rarely mentioned on this board
(no plasma or LCD) but they make great sets

You are right, it probably wasn't cheap to you since you equate performance so closely with price. But let's face the music old one, anything Mitsubishi produced below their 65" RPTV with 9" guns was compromised to meet a price point. The performance difference between their 65" with 9" CRT's and the 60" with 7" CRT's was as wide as the pacific ocean. So IMO, its cheap.


No "compromise", you just need a dark room to watch one in

So what. That is not a compromise, its a necessity, just like it is in the movie theater. What is a compromise is that inability of fixed panels to reproduce the SMPTE color gamut accurately. What is a compromise is the inability of fixed panel to reproduce shadow detail. What is a compromise is pixels burning out, much like what has happened with your brain.


the whole story (besides the "hole" in your head) is that twin projectors were common in
a lot of installs, not just 300".

Stacked projectors has never been common, so please do overstate your point, or to put it plainly, don't lie liar. The cost of two projectors, and the complexity of lining them up prevents this from being a common installation. The only reason to stack two projectors is because of poor pre-install planning, or the desire to have a much larger screen than the projector can throw light on. If you plan out your installation properly, and pick the proper projector for the installation, there is no need to stack.


But thats ancient history now, now most just use a DLP or LCD, a DLP projector
from circuit city can easily match one of the older "crt" dinosaurs.

A very uniformed comment, especially coming from a person with absolutely no experience with CRT projection systems aside from a cheap RPTV.


even an old burnout like GM knows this, why are you having so much trouble with it?
Spent a tad too much on stuff that got obsolete a bit too fast?:1:

I would consider you a burnout, I consider GM a Good Mercedes. Obsolete means unuseful, there is nothing unuseful about high end CRT projection systems, especially since they outperform fixed panels in just about every area. The only fixed panel that can outperform a CRT based system, is the Panasonic 150" plasma that is spec'd at 2160p. You would be hard pressed to find any plasma or LCD that can come close to competing with a Sony G-90, Maquee 9500, or a Barco 1209 or cine 9 projectors(or even my display) with can accurately reproduce 2500x2000 lines or resolution ACCURATELY. No panel except one in the world can do that.


Mitigate but not get rid of entirely.

If you make it invisible to the eye, there is no need to mitigate in entirely is there?


You can engineer the hell outta screen doors on a submarine but the basic idea
you are starting out with is flawed.
You start out in the wrong direction you will always wind up in the wrong place.

So you are saying the very system we have built our broadcast technology on is flawed? If that is the case, how does a flat panel change the equation. It doesn't, the only thing it does is take up less space, and that is it. It offers no performance advantage that is for sure. Many panels out there cannot even reproduce a 1080p image accurately, and testing by a few mags has proven this.


And the "complex" argument is something a lot hide behind.

Simplicity is an arguement that stupid people like yourself hide behind because they lack the brain compacity to understand the complex.


A LOT OF ELECTRONIC processes are actually quite simple, making them work requires a lot of gear sometimes.

You must like to see your nonsense on this page huh?


CRT is a dead technology, the way business works they will be used until they are so totally gone they arent worth keeping, doesnt mean they are optimum.

I guess this is the same dead that plasma has suffered huh? Your brain is dead, and that is the only thing that has suffered any death. CRT based projection systems has enough market that folks are rebuilding, refurbishing, and reselling them everyday.


I have lived with these beasts and they have served me well, but there is just a better
way of showing pictures now, and like the gramophone and teh eight track they are history
there are just better ways of showing a video than solid glass vaccume "hernia inducers"
that are dangerous, expensive and realitivly short lived :1:

This sounds more like a description of yourself rather than technology. What makes this comment so laughable is that there isn't but one panel in the world that can outperform the projectors I mentioned above. Just one. Once again you are equating convience with performace. I would much rather have a giant beast that can do black, can accurately reproduce 2500x2000 lines of information, meet SMTPE standards for color reproduction, and you can adjust the scanning rate to increase its resolution than have something that I can hang on a wall but cannot accurately reproduce that panels spec'd resolution, doesn't do black, and suffers from motion blur and slow reponse times. For me convience never trumps performance. Your standards are much lower than mine, that is for sure.

[pixelthis]

This statement does not make any sense at all, but this is pretty typical of you. Can you explain the difference between the process is too fast for our eyes and brain to detect, and our brain is too slow to detect. They are just too different ways of saying the same thing. Geeze, you must have been at the top of the 1764 graduating class of hickville high.

They are two different things, in the first instance our brains are too slow to discern
the seperate frames and they run together and make motion.
If our brains were too "fast" then we'd be sitting there waiting for all of teh frames to get there and they would be as what they are seperate frames.
I knew you were dumb, just not short yellow schoolbus dumb




I am afraid when you are talking about moving images, SOLID is not a very descriptive word. Study after study has proven that a normal viewing distances most folks cannot detect any differences between 1080p and 1080i well done. So your "fact" is in an imaginary space between your ears where your brain is supposed to be. .


I can.
And you say MY standards are low



Honest mistake?? You have got to be kidding me. An honest mistake would state "I think he said cobbled together", not "cobbled together" in a very definitive fashion. You lied, and you don't want to admit you did so you can maintain some fake illusion that you are never wrong. Well, your a$$ was wrong, so there goes your little illusion.

I think your brains are "cobbled" together



This is mighty impressive for a dumpster diver. Imagine, going broke purchasing low end equipment. I guess this is the best a failed janitor can do. Did you sell your soul to the devil to pay for it?

No, it was what was left over after I spent my money on something more important, the people in my life. I have my priorities, something you dont have to worry about since most probably wont get near you


You are right, it probably wasn't cheap to you since you equate performance so closely with price. But let's face the music old one, anything Mitsubishi produced below their 65" RPTV with 9" guns was compromised to meet a price point. The performance difference between their 65" with 9" CRT's and the 60" with 7" CRT's was as wide as the pacific ocean. So IMO, its cheap.


EVERYTHING is a compromise to meet a price point.
And performace relative to price is important , if you know anything you'd know THAT


So what. That is not a compromise, its a necessity, just like it is in the movie theater. What is a compromise is that inability of fixed panels to reproduce the SMPTE color gamut accurately. What is a compromise is the inability of fixed panel to reproduce shadow detail. What is a compromise is pixels burning out, much like what has happened with your brain.

No, its a result of using a CRT for something for which it was never intended, CRT was
always meant to be a direct view device, they just dont produce enough light to work as a projection device without serious long term problems.
they were a work around because there was nothing besides a film projector to meet the home viewing need.
Now their compromises arent nessesary, and when wall size OLED is in production
it will be the dominant form factor



Stacked projectors has never been common, so please do overstate your point, or to put it plainly, don't lie liar. The cost of two projectors, and the complexity of lining them up prevents this from being a common installation. The only reason to stack two projectors is because of poor pre-install planning, or the desire to have a much larger screen than the projector can throw light on. If you plan out your installation properly, and pick the proper projector for the installation, there is no need to stack.

Stacked projectors have been a way for HT types to double the light output of their setup forever, go to the magazine sites and check out the archives.
It becaome more common when HD arrived, since the light output of a HD CRT is much less



A very uniformed comment, especially coming from a person with absolutely no experience with CRT projection systems aside from a cheap RPTV.

Thats three cheap projection TV sets, two an HD(samsung and pioneer 47in models) and uncounted experience from various friends, systems at work, etc.
Unless you're over fifty you arent even CLOSE to my "experience" with CRT tech,
starting in the early seventies



I would consider you a burnout, I consider GM a Good Mercedes. Obsolete means unuseful, there is nothing unuseful about high end CRT projection systems, especially since they outperform fixed panels in just about every area. The only fixed panel that can outperform a CRT based system, is the Panasonic 150" plasma that is spec'd at 2160p. You would be hard pressed to find any plasma or LCD that can come close to competing with a Sony G-90, Maquee 9500, or a Barco 1209 or cine 9 projectors(or even my display) with can accurately reproduce 2500x2000 lines or resolution ACCURATELY. No panel except one in the world can do that.

Any dlp front projection set will beat the pants off of CRT in brightness, resolution, and most importantly, price.
THE FORM FACTOR that will (and is ) most practical and affordable for most is a DLP,
LCOS (or one of its derivatives) and LCD front projection, while bringing up the rear in q is still quite good.
NOBODY wants a monstrosity sitting in their HT or living room and are willing to put up with the shortcomings in order to acheive miniscule improvements.
If a 5,000 DLP projector will acheive 99% of what a 20,000 CRT can do you'd have to be an idiot to buy the CRT.
AND WHEN SOMETHINGS OBSOLETE it means that better is out there, you can keep using the old stuff, sure, but sooner or later it will be GONE


If you make it invisible to the eye, there is no need to mitigate in entirely is there?

GLAD YOU CONCEDE MY POINT



So you are saying the very system we have built our broadcast technology on is flawed? If that is the case, how does a flat panel change the equation. It doesn't, the only thing it does is take up less space, and that is it. It offers no performance advantage that is for sure. Many panels out there cannot even reproduce a 1080p image accurately, and testing by a few mags has proven this.

your brains are flawed.
of course our broadcast tech is "flawed" , its built by human beings, however it does quite good most of the time.
Our system used to be built around CRT tech, it was intended that that was what we'd use to translate electronic signals into light.
But that isnt the case anymore.
Interlaced broadcasting was an ingenious solution to not having enough space to put an entire signal through at once, but it was a compromise.
Today we still use it for the same reason but in a different way, instead of putting together
two fields to make one interlaced frame we are putting together two frames to make one
progressive frame




Simplicity is an arguement that stupid people like yourself hide behind because they lack the brain compacity to understand the complex.

More philosophy from the three stooges school of thought.
The first two years of school in electronics was frustrating, we learned about oscilators,
components like capacitors, various solid state and even tube devices.
We never touched a TV.
Then the first week of the third year a schematic of a tv set was laid out, we were surprized to see that we understood it perfectly.
Our teacher said we had to learn the underlying , more simple concepts in order to put them together.
This is the way I still learn things, break them down to component parts
It is the only way to learn anything.
An atom bomb is simply playing pool at the subatomic level,
making it happen is whats complicated


You must like to see your nonsense on this page huh?

What I hate to see is your childish nonsense on this page because I simply can't resist the urge to put a simpering moron with delusions of grandeur in his place.
I know my limitations and place in the universe, just wish you'd quit trying to stand on your hind legs and exceed yours



I guess this is the same dead that plasma has suffered huh? Your brain is dead, and that is the only thing that has suffered any death. CRT based projection systems has enough market that folks are rebuilding, refurbishing, and reselling them everyday.

Which proves my point, eventually there will be nothing to "refurbish", this is because the form factor is DEAD.
In the future they will view this as we view a horse and buggy, while they watch their
oled screens painted on a wall using nanotech to arrange the elements


This sounds more like a description of yourself rather than technology. What makes this comment so laughable is that there isn't but one panel in the world that can outperform the projectors I mentioned above. Just one. Once again you are equating convience with performace. I would much rather have a giant beast that can do black, can accurately reproduce 2500x2000 lines of information, meet SMTPE standards for color reproduction, and you can adjust the scanning rate to increase its resolution than have something that I can hang on a wall but cannot accurately reproduce that panels spec'd resolution, doesn't do black, and suffers from motion blur and slow reponse times. For me convience never trumps performance. Your standards are much lower than mine, that is for sure.

None of this is relevant to 99% of the population, and even people in the field would have trouble discerning the difference between a five grand DLP and a fifty grand CRT
set.
Well, there is one difference, they still make and sell front projector dlp in industrial quanity
something that will never happen again with CRT, no new CRT factories will be built.
CRT is quite gooid, it should be with armies of engineers working on it for a century,
but with all of that effort it should be better
Truth is that CRT was a nessesary evil, we used it because there was no choice.
Now theres a choice.
People who saw the first cars procclaimed them a "fad" because a good horse
could outrun them. THAT DIDNT LAST LONG.
My standard are "lower" than yours?Not really, I JUST LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD,
and like most cant afford thousands for a miniscule increase in performance that my fifty year old eyes probably cant detect anyway, when a 20 year old would have a problem doing so.
And this is considering that CRT is better, which it isnt actually.
Face it talky, NOBODY is working on this tech anymore, its in the attic of the human race in practicallity if not quite reality just yet.
GET OVER IT.:1:

[jrhymeammo]

Didn't somebody already tell you to get over yourself JRA? If I had a specific comment or concern with you I'd have PM'ed you.

I was simply not sure who you were writing to. Nothing more, nothing less.

I can careless about what GM says to me. He has nothing to offer for what I'm looking for on this site. I have nothing against him at all. Just not interested. If he was posting on your behalf, telling me to get over myself, then "Fair Enough". I'll just move on like the way GM had suggested.

Peace,

[GMichael]

I can careless about what GM says to me. He has nothing to offer for what I'm looking for on this site. I have nothing against him at all. Just not interested. ,

Ditto....

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

They are two different things, in the first instance our brains are too slow to discern
the seperate frames and they run together and make motion.
If our brains were too "fast" then we'd be sitting there waiting for all of teh frames to get there and they would be as what they are seperate frames.
I knew you were dumb, just not short yellow schoolbus dumb

I didn't say our brain was too fast stupid, I said the PROCESS was too fast for our eye/brain mechansim. And you say I am dumb, you can't even read foo.


I can.
And you say MY standards are low

Yes I did, and I am right.


I think your brains are "cobbled" together

You do not know how to think, and that is why you make these kinds of stupid statements.



No, it was what was left over after I spent my money on something more important, the people in my life. I have my priorities, something you dont have to worry about since most probably wont get near you

Your idiotness, you do not know how people interact with me, you don't know me from Adam's house cat. I think its rather ironic that a admitted dumpster diver says he has priorities. What, finding the cheapest trash he can find? Well, I hope you found yourself.



EVERYTHING is a compromise to meet a price point.
And performace relative to price is important , if you know anything you'd know THAT

Your thinking is too mass market. In the high end, products are designed for performance first, and the price is purely secondary. In the mass market its the opposite. A price point is established, and the product is created to meet that price point. Once again you are missing the detail of the discussion.


No, its a result of using a CRT for something for which it was never intended, CRT was
always meant to be a direct view device, they just dont produce enough light to work as a projection device without serious long term problems.

This is a laughable statement if I ever saw one. Can you explain what serious long term problems will exist? You have never owned a front projection system, so how do you know what issue could pop up? I have owned a Sony G-90 for the last five years, I have not had a single problem from it. Other folks have had their front projection systems for close to ten years and have had no problems. You are stinking up the room with your bull$hit.


they were a work around because there was nothing besides a film projector to meet the home viewing need.
Now their compromises arent nessesary, and when wall size OLED is in production
it will be the dominant form factor

Rediculous. Flat panels are the compromise. They sacrifice performance levels already acheived by high end CRT's(and lower end models as well) for the convience of hanging it on a wall. Flat panels do not do black, the do not reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, the cannot reproduce the grey scale accurately, they have poor response times and motion blur. What you consider is the compromise does do black, can reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, can do the grey scale accurately, does not suffer from motion blur, and has a instantaneous response. And please do not talk to me about something that has not even acheived a 20" screen size yet.




Stacked projectors have been a way for HT types to double the light output of their setup forever, go to the magazine sites and check out the archives.
It becaome more common when HD arrived, since the light output of a HD CRT is much less

Once again you are lying. I am an installer and have been so for more than 15 years. I can count on one hand the amount of installs I have done that required stacked projectors. You talk like this is the norm, and it isn't. Lie number two, HD CRT have less light than analog CRT's, more bull$hit. The Sony G-90 was built in 1997 In 1997 HDTV was almost non existant, but the G-90, the Barco 1209, and the electrohome 9500 ultra could reproduce 1080p back then. The could put out 1300 lumens in 1997 and they can put out 1300 lumens in 2008. So they could do better than HDTV back then, and 1300 lumens back then, so just when did the light output drop? Where are my boots, dude you are loaded full of cow plop.



Thats three cheap projection TV sets, two an HD(samsung and pioneer 47in models) and uncounted experience from various friends, systems at work, etc.
Unless you're over fifty you arent even CLOSE to my "experience" with CRT tech,
starting in the early seventies

Your "experience" has not translated to "knowledge", so it is essentially worthless.


Any dlp front projection set will beat the pants off of CRT in brightness, resolution, and most importantly, price.

Lie number three. I know of no DLP that can do 2500x2000(essentially 2000p)lines of information. Zero. Price is only a issue for those who count pennies. I treasure performance first, price second. DLP's suffer the same problems as all fixed panel devices do, cannot do black, cannot do greyscale, cannot reproduce the HD color gamut accurately. You get what you pay for. Brightness does not matter when you cannot do so many other things correctly.


THE FORM FACTOR that will (and is ) most practical and affordable for most is a DLP,
LCOS (or one of its derivatives) and LCD front projection, while bringing up the rear in q is still quite good.

This is the thinking of the a "good enough" person, not a "give me the best" person. DLP, LCD, and plasma are all a step backwards from my current "dinosaur" CRT RPTV. Not one of these technologies can do what my current RPTV does. I don't do good enough.


NOBODY wants a monstrosity sitting in their HT or living room and are willing to put up with the shortcomings in order to acheive miniscule improvements.

Well there must be alot of nobodies out there, because Curt Palmer who sells refurbished RPTV and front projection systems is doing booming business right now, in spite of the fact that they do not make them anymore. When you compare the performance of the typical high end projector, the flat panel is the one with the shortcomings. And you would have to own one to say its improvements are miniscule. Of course because you have always purchased cheap crap, I am sure a compromised flat panel like the vizio is an improvement for you.


If a 5,000 DLP projector will acheive 99% of what a 20,000 CRT can do you'd have to be an idiot to buy the CRT.
AND WHEN SOMETHINGS OBSOLETE it means that better is out there, you can keep using the old stuff, sure, but sooner or later it will be GONE

There is a flaw in this logic, even the best plasma, DLP or LCD cannot even come close to the performance of the Sony G-90. All you have to do is look at test spec's and one can clearly see this. You are just one bucket of lies old dude. You are just like Nightliar, will lie just for the sake of doing so. CRT's are not obsolete, they are just too big and require alot of maintainence. The only benefit a flat panel offers you over a CRT is it takes up less space. Otherwise it is a compromise when compared to a quality CRT based projector.


GLAD YOU CONCEDE MY POINT

Sorry but motion blur is visible. The effects of a slow response time are visible. The inability to do below black is visible. The inability to reproduce an accurate HD color gamut is visible. So the only point that I will concede is that you are not very bright to be so old.



your brains are flawed.
of course our broadcast tech is "flawed" , its built by human beings, however it does quite good most of the time.

So how does a flat panel correct this? It doesn't, and because of its drawbacks, it makes a compromised system even worse.


Our system used to be built around CRT tech, it was intended that that was what we'd use to translate electronic signals into light.
But that isnt the case anymore.
Interlaced broadcasting was an ingenious solution to not having enough space to put an entire signal through at once, but it was a compromise.

Since we still have a interlaced based broadcasting system, how did the change to a digital system improved the system?. A digitally based interlaced system is no better than a analog based interlaced system. It is a more complex system because digitally based signal do not travel as far as analog based transmission systems, so more repeaters are required which makes the entire system more complex.



Today we still use it for the same reason but in a different way, instead of putting together
two fields to make one interlaced frame we are putting together two frames to make one
progressive frame

That would explain 720p, but how about 1080i? In OTA broadcasting 720p is the minority, and 1080i is the majority.


More philosophy from the three stooges school of thought.
The first two years of school in electronics was frustrating, we learned about oscilators,
components like capacitors, various solid state and even tube devices.
We never touched a TV.

If that is the case, then how can you use the words of your electronics teacher if you never touched the subject? It is pretty obvious they didn't teach you about TV


Then the first week of the third year a schematic of a tv set was laid out, we were surprized to see that we understood it perfectly.
Our teacher said we had to learn the underlying , more simple concepts in order to put them together.
This is the way I still learn things, break them down to component parts
It is the only way to learn anything.

Unfortunately when you break them down, some of the little pieces are getting lost, so your ability to create a whole picture, a coherent stream of logic is completely compromised. So this explain why you skip the detail and the big picture. There is none.


An atom bomb is simply playing pool at the subatomic level,
making it happen is whats complicated

This is pretty deep for a person that is as deep as a pool of spit on a sidewalk. Do you borrow this from sombody?



What I hate to see is your childish nonsense on this page because I simply can't resist the urge to put a simpering moron with delusions of grandeur in his place.

You must be saying this in a mirror.


I know my limitations and place in the universe, just wish you'd quit trying to stand on your hind legs and exceed yours

We all know your limitations. Unfortunately we have to read about them everyday on this board. Wishing is for kids, are you starting your second childhood pixelneck?





Which proves my point, eventually there will be nothing to "refurbish", this is because the form factor is DEAD.

While they do not make CRT based television anymore, there are plenty of parts to continue refurbishing high end projection systems for years to come. Didn't you say that plasma is dead? Well, it doesn't look dead to me as long as they continue to make them. As long as I can purchase a refurbished or upgraded quality CRT projector, then it ain't dead yet.


In the future they will view this as we view a horse and buggy, while they watch their
oled screens painted on a wall using nanotech to arrange the elements

They said we would have flying cars by now, but we don't. So I'll just wait until we can view this horse and buggy arguement when the reality sets in. You'll be dead by then though.




None of this is relevant to 99% of the population, and even people in the field would have trouble discerning the difference between a five grand DLP and a fifty grand CRT
set.

There is no proof of this statement at all. I do not like so called facts that are pulled out of thin air with no proof.


Well, there is one difference, they still make and sell front projector dlp in industrial quanity
something that will never happen again with CRT, no new CRT factories will be built.

The chinese makes alot of things in quantity, that does not make them better. Most things made in quantity usually lack quality anyway.


CRT is quite gooid, it should be with armies of engineers working on it for a century,
but with all of that effort it should be better
Truth is that CRT was a nessesary evil, we used it because there was no choice.
Now theres a choice.

Flat panels are also a necessary evil. They were invented for the sake of the WAF, and not because they are a inherently better technology. I find it rather ironic that a projector that is 11 years old can outperform a "new" technology. Things that are digital are not always better than things that are analog. A just becuase something can be hung on a wall, does not make it better than something that takes up alot of space.


People who saw the first cars procclaimed them a "fad" because a good horse
could outrun them. THAT DIDNT LAST LONG.

I wasn't around when car first got here, so I do not know what folks proclaimed. You were probably around though.


My standard are "lower" than yours?Not really, I JUST LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD,
and like most cant afford thousands for a miniscule increase in performance that my fifty year old eyes probably cant detect anyway, when a 20 year old would have a problem doing so.

Your standards are lower than mine. I treasure performance over price. You treasure price over performance. A vizio flat panel would NEVER grace my hometheater because it cannot exceed the performance of my current dinosaur CRT RPTV. My eyes have absolutely no problem seeing a significant performance increase over a flat panel. You would have a problem because you cannot recognized quality of you saw it. Its all about price to you. Neither of my twenty year old sons have any problem seeing the improvement of my CRT based RPTV over the LCD panels in their rooms. That is why they are sitting in front of my set more than they sit in front of theirs.


And this is considering that CRT is better, which it isnt actually.
Face it talky, NOBODY is working on this tech anymore, its in the attic of the human race in practicallity if not quite reality just yet.
GET OVER IT.:1:

Well Curt Palmer is still working on them, he is somebody. I know at least 10 other folks that work on them as well. Curt Palmer is always working on improvments to high end projectors, even if Sony or Ampro aren't. Nothing is not in the attic until there is not one left in use. There are millions still in use.

I really like the name Sir Talky. Its funny, much like pixelidiot, pixelpuss, pixeless, and my personal favorite because it so aptly describes you...burntoutpixel.

Looking forward to the next round old fart.

[audio amateur]

I don't know how you cope with it...

[L.J.]

Wow. The heat is really picking up around here.
LJ? Got anymore of that popcorn?
Nevermind. I'll just throw some kernels on my computer.

Nah this is gonna take awhile......I'm 'bout to throw some ribs on the grill :)

**lights grill, cracks open a brew, sits in chair, DANG!!!!, gets up..turns on outdoor speakers, sits back in chair**

[GMichael]

(GM turns up the volume, pops open a beer, and has a seat)

Nice night huh LJ? Have you played Burnout in Paradise yet?

[E-Stat]

(GM turns up the volume, pops open a beer, and has a seat)
(E-Stat warms up the tubes, pours a glass of wine and reads latest installment)
Hi guys. Anyone want to venture how many posts this thread will go? 150? 200?

Say TtT, I've got a friend who replaced his Barco projector with a new Sony HD unit (not sure what model) for his 100" screen. Very nice. How are the new Sony units?

rw

[Rich-n-Texas]

Nah this is gonna take awhile......I'm 'bout to throw some ribs on the grill :)

**lights grill, cracks open a brew, sits in chair, DANG!!!!, gets up..turns on outdoor speakers, sits back in chair**
Huh??? Ribs??? What??? Huh... who... what... where? :idea:

[kexodusc]

(E-Stat warms up the tubes, pours a glass of wine and reads latest installment)
Hi guys. Anyone want to venture how many posts this thread will go? 150? 200?

Say TtT, I've got a friend who replaced his Barco projector with a new Sony HD unit (not sure what model) for his 100" screen. Very nice. How are the new Sony units?

rw
Yeah, Sir T.
I know...this guy....who's building a new house with a dedicated HT Room and he wants a new projector...nothing fancy, decent value performer etc...can you steer m--er...this guy in the right direction?

[pixelthis]

I didn't say our brain was too fast stupid, I said the PROCESS was too fast for our eye/brain mechansim. And you say I am dumb, you can't even read foo.



Yes I did, and I am right.



You do not know how to think, and that is why you make these kinds of stupid statements.




Your idiotness, you do not know how people interact with me, you don't know me from Adam's house cat. I think its rather ironic that a admitted dumpster diver says he has priorities. What, finding the cheapest trash he can find? Well, I hope you found yourself.




Your thinking is too mass market. In the high end, products are designed for performance first, and the price is purely secondary. In the mass market its the opposite. A price point is established, and the product is created to meet that price point. Once again you are missing the detail of the discussion.



This is a laughable statement if I ever saw one. Can you explain what serious long term problems will exist? You have never owned a front projection system, so how do you know what issue could pop up? I have owned a Sony G-90 for the last five years, I have not had a single problem from it. Other folks have had their front projection systems for close to ten years and have had no problems. You are stinking up the room with your bull$hit.



Rediculous. Flat panels are the compromise. They sacrifice performance levels already acheived by high end CRT's(and lower end models as well) for the convience of hanging it on a wall. Flat panels do not do black, the do not reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, the cannot reproduce the grey scale accurately, they have poor response times and motion blur. What you consider is the compromise does do black, can reproduce the color gamut at SMPTE spec's, can do the grey scale accurately, does not suffer from motion blur, and has a instantaneous response. And please do not talk to me about something that has not even acheived a 20" screen size yet.





Once again you are lying. I am an installer and have been so for more than 15 years. I can count on one hand the amount of installs I have done that required stacked projectors. You talk like this is the norm, and it isn't. Lie number two, HD CRT have less light than analog CRT's, more bull$hit. The Sony G-90 was built in 1997 In 1997 HDTV was almost non existant, but the G-90, the Barco 1209, and the electrohome 9500 ultra could reproduce 1080p back then. The could put out 1300 lumens in 1997 and they can put out 1300 lumens in 2008. So they could do better than HDTV back then, and 1300 lumens back then, so just when did the light output drop? Where are my boots, dude you are loaded full of cow plop.




Your "experience" has not translated to "knowledge", so it is essentially worthless.



Lie number three. I know of no DLP that can do 2500x2000(essentially 2000p)lines of information. Zero. Price is only a issue for those who count pennies. I treasure performance first, price second. DLP's suffer the same problems as all fixed panel devices do, cannot do black, cannot do greyscale, cannot reproduce the HD color gamut accurately. You get what you pay for. Brightness does not matter when you cannot do so many other things correctly.



This is the thinking of the a "good enough" person, not a "give me the best" person. DLP, LCD, and plasma are all a step backwards from my current "dinosaur" CRT RPTV. Not one of these technologies can do what my current RPTV does. I don't do good enough.



Well there must be alot of nobodies out there, because Curt Palmer who sells refurbished RPTV and front projection systems is doing booming business right now, in spite of the fact that they do not make them anymore. When you compare the performance of the typical high end projector, the flat panel is the one with the shortcomings. And you would have to own one to say its improvements are miniscule. Of course because you have always purchased cheap crap, I am sure a compromised flat panel like the vizio is an improvement for you.



There is a flaw in this logic, even the best plasma, DLP or LCD cannot even come close to the performance of the Sony G-90. All you have to do is look at test spec's and one can clearly see this. You are just one bucket of lies old dude. You are just like Nightliar, will lie just for the sake of doing so. CRT's are not obsolete, they are just too big and require alot of maintainence. The only benefit a flat panel offers you over a CRT is it takes up less space. Otherwise it is a compromise when compared to a quality CRT based projector.



Sorry but motion blur is visible. The effects of a slow response time are visible. The inability to do below black is visible. The inability to reproduce an accurate HD color gamut is visible. So the only point that I will concede is that you are not very bright to be so old.




So how does a flat panel correct this? It doesn't, and because of its drawbacks, it makes a compromised system even worse.



Since we still have a interlaced based broadcasting system, how did the change to a digital system improved the system?. A digitally based interlaced system is no better than a analog based interlaced system. It is a more complex system because digitally based signal do not travel as far as analog based transmission systems, so more repeaters are required which makes the entire system more complex.




That would explain 720p, but how about 1080i? In OTA broadcasting 720p is the minority, and 1080i is the majority.



If that is the case, then how can you use the words of your electronics teacher if you never touched the subject? It is pretty obvious they didn't teach you about TV



Unfortunately when you break them down, some of the little pieces are getting lost, so your ability to create a whole picture, a coherent stream of logic is completely compromised. So this explain why you skip the detail and the big picture. There is none.



This is pretty deep for a person that is as deep as a pool of spit on a sidewalk. Do you borrow this from sombody?




You must be saying this in a mirror.



We all know your limitations. Unfortunately we have to read about them everyday on this board. Wishing is for kids, are you starting your second childhood pixelneck?






While they do not make CRT based television anymore, there are plenty of parts to continue refurbishing high end projection systems for years to come. Didn't you say that plasma is dead? Well, it doesn't look dead to me as long as they continue to make them. As long as I can purchase a refurbished or upgraded quality CRT projector, then it ain't dead yet.



They said we would have flying cars by now, but we don't. So I'll just wait until we can view this horse and buggy arguement when the reality sets in. You'll be dead by then though.





There is no proof of this statement at all. I do not like so called facts that are pulled out of thin air with no proof.



The chinese makes alot of things in quantity, that does not make them better. Most things made in quantity usually lack quality anyway.



Flat panels are also a necessary evil. They were invented for the sake of the WAF, and not because they are a inherently better technology. I find it rather ironic that a projector that is 11 years old can outperform a "new" technology. Things that are digital are not always better than things that are analog. A just becuase something can be hung on a wall, does not make it better than something that takes up alot of space.



I wasn't around when car first got here, so I do not know what folks proclaimed. You were probably around though.



Your standards are lower than mine. I treasure performance over price. You treasure price over performance. A vizio flat panel would NEVER grace my hometheater because it cannot exceed the performance of my current dinosaur CRT RPTV. My eyes have absolutely no problem seeing a significant performance increase over a flat panel. You would have a problem because you cannot recognized quality of you saw it. Its all about price to you. Neither of my twenty year old sons have any problem seeing the improvement of my CRT based RPTV over the LCD panels in their rooms. That is why they are sitting in front of my set more than they sit in front of theirs.



Well Curt Palmer is still working on them, he is somebody. I know at least 10 other folks that work on them as well. Curt Palmer is always working on improvments to high end projectors, even if Sony or Ampro aren't. Nothing is not in the attic until there is not one left in use. There are millions still in use.

I really like the name Sir Talky. Its funny, much like pixelidiot, pixelpuss, pixeless, and my personal favorite because it so aptly describes you...burntoutpixel.

Looking forward to the next round old fart.

I'M NOT.
LETS SEEEE...
I could waste a few dozen minutes of my life arguing with a simpering moron about a technology that already has one foot in the grave and another on the banana peel,
but I think I'll just pop another beer instead.

IT took decades and millions of dollars but they finally taught a ape to understand
a few basic words, but thats it.
The limitations of the ape means that he will only do so good.
AND you can fiddle with old CRT tubes all you like, I HAVE A LIFE.
And no matter how much you try you will still wind up with tech that was finalized
and presented during the late 20's.
You will NEVER get phosper to produce enough light to compete with the new projectors,
and 2'000p is around the corner.
If I were you I'd be stockpiling those tubes, they will soon be in short supply.
Good news, like any obsolete tech they will sell CHEAP.
In a few years they will be gone completely, sure people are still using them, my folks still use a Sony 32in SDTV. Cant get one today.
You're like those laserdisc crazies who said DVD was a fad when it first came out.
DVD wasnt as good as laser true, but it is now, and it swept over laser like the red seas over the pharoes army.
You say you install stuff? That explains a lot.
Carrying a note on some old dinosaurs in the back room?
Well, whatever, you , like the ape in the analogy above will only be able to understand so much.
And CRT will only be able to do so much.
And I win , btw, so why keep arguing?
Why do I win? Check out the number of CRT devices out there, I'll even let you include
the 20in sanyo at Wallfart for 68$.
They are disapearing before your eyes.
I posted a thread to spur conversation, PLASMA IS DEAD, and actually, plasma wont be dead for a few years yet.
BUT CRT is already dead been that way for awhile
SO I WIN :1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'M NOT.
LETS SEEEE...
I could waste a few dozen minutes of my life arguing with a simpering moron about a technology that already has one foot in the grave and another on the banana peel,
but I think I'll just pop another beer instead.

Cliche cliche. Based on what you have posted on each subject you have encroached on, you have had far too many beers already.


IT took decades and millions of dollars but they finally taught a ape to understand
a few basic words, but thats it.

What does this have to do with anything?


The limitations of the ape means that he will only do so good.
AND you can fiddle with old CRT tubes all you like, I HAVE A LIFE.
And no matter how much you try you will still wind up with tech that was finalized
and presented during the late 20's.

It was finalized, presented AND constantly improved upon since the late 20's



You will NEVER get phosper to produce enough light to compete with the new projectors,

There is no need to keep up with the new digital projector in terms of brute force brightness. Dummies believe that brightness is the end all. All you have to do is control the amount of ambient light in the room. You do that and no digital projector can compete with a high quality CRT projector. Having to control ambient light is totally necessary if you want a proper contrast ratio, and the ability to see shadow detail. Since you are a "good enough" type, getting proper contrast ratio, and having the ability to see shadow detail does not mean anything to you. So brightness probably means more to you than proper color temperature, following SMPTE standards for color gamut, proper contrast ratio, acheiving proper black levels, and a accurate greyscale.


and 2'000p is around the corner.

Yeah, if that corner is your big fat stomach. We will NEVER see 2000p because it is just not practical for home use. It costs an arm and a leg to implement(look at the Panasonic 150" at 2160p), and it requires a huge display device that will not fit in most folks home. You should probably think before you post.


If I were you I'd be stockpiling those tubes, they will soon be in short supply.

No need. There are six companies that I can count right off the top of my head that are still making and supplying high end CRT's to folks like Curt Palmer and his company. So while CRT's are no longer manufactured by the majors, several companies have made a business in keeping the millions of CRT projector sold working for years to come.


Good news, like any obsolete tech they will sell CHEAP.
In a few years they will be gone completely, sure people are still using them, my folks still use a Sony 32in SDTV. Cant get one today.

Most CRT projectors have gotten cheaper, but the well maintained high end ones are still expensive. They will not be gone completely, and stupid people just like you were saying the same things five years ago.


You're like those laserdisc crazies who said DVD was a fad when it first came out.
DVD wasnt as good as laser true, but it is now, and it swept over laser like the red seas over the pharoes army.

I didn't know you in 1997, you weren't even around here then. So how do you know what I said back then? I was just the opposite, I embraced the DVD when I saw its potential, just like I embraced both HD DVD and Bluray when they came into the picture. You seem the one to be out of touch with technology, you talk alot about it, but you don't seem to keep up with the purchase of it. I guess its tough to keep up because getting a real job would interfer with your dumpster diving.


You say you install stuff? That explains a lot.

Yeah, it explains why I know far more than you do, and you are almost sixty times older than I am.


Carrying a note on some old dinosaurs in the back room?

Actually I can post it right here, and our resident dinosaur Pixy will read it.


Well, whatever, you , like the ape in the analogy above will only be able to understand so much.

And you have shown that you understand nothing.


And CRT will only be able to do so much.

As so will Plasma, LCD, DLP and any other technology out there.



And I win , btw, so why keep arguing?
Why do I win? Check out the number of CRT devices out there, I'll even let you include
the 20in sanyo at Wallfart for 68$.

This is why I say your standards are much lower than mine. There are millions of CRT front projection based projection systems out there, and that does not include the cheap sets you so like to allude to. When you add in the cheap single tube sets, it totally dwarfs the amount of fixed panel sets out there. The only thing you "won" is the chance to take your next breath.


They are disapearing before your eyes.
I posted a thread to spur conversation, PLASMA IS DEAD, and actually, plasma wont be dead for a few years yet.
BUT CRT is already dead been that way for awhile
SO I WIN :1:

It is apparent we are talking about different CRT devices. All of your references are aimed at the single gun cheap televisions because you have no experience with any other. You were wrong about plasma, and you are wrong about high end CRT(that is what I am referring to). Neither is dead until you cannot purchase even one of them in the mass market(plasma) or the high end after market(high end CRT's). Just because high end CRT's are off your radar, does not mean they are completely out of the picture. While single gun CRT television are not being sold, high end projection system are still being sold, still being upgraded, and still commanding a fairly high price. So you can keep chiming up like some 2 year old that you won if it makes you feel better. But in reality, only your ignorance has won anything.

Round 4 up next.

[pixelthis]

Cliche cliche. Based on what you have posted on each subject you have encroached on, you have had far too many beers already.



What does this have to do with anything?



It was finalized, presented AND constantly improved upon since the late 20's




There is no need to keep up with the new digital projector in terms of brute force brightness. Dummies believe that brightness is the end all. All you have to do is control the amount of ambient light in the room. You do that and no digital projector can compete with a high quality CRT projector. Having to control ambient light is totally necessary if you want a proper contrast ratio, and the ability to see shadow detail. Since you are a "good enough" type, getting proper contrast ratio, and having the ability to see shadow detail does not mean anything to you. So brightness probably means more to you than proper color temperature, following SMPTE standards for color gamut, proper contrast ratio, acheiving proper black levels, and a accurate greyscale.



Yeah, if that corner is your big fat stomach. We will NEVER see 2000p because it is just not practical for home use. It costs an arm and a leg to implement(look at the Panasonic 150" at 2160p), and it requires a huge display device that will not fit in most folks home. You should probably think before you post.



No need. There are six companies that I can count right off the top of my head that are still making and supplying high end CRT's to folks like Curt Palmer and his company. So while CRT's are no longer manufactured by the majors, several companies have made a business in keeping the millions of CRT projector sold working for years to come.



Most CRT projectors have gotten cheaper, but the well maintained high end ones are still expensive. They will not be gone completely, and stupid people just like you were saying the same things five years ago.



I didn't know you in 1997, you weren't even around here then. So how do you know what I said back then? I was just the opposite, I embraced the DVD when I saw its potential, just like I embraced both HD DVD and Bluray when they came into the picture. You seem the one to be out of touch with technology, you talk alot about it, but you don't seem to keep up with the purchase of it. I guess its tough to keep up because getting a real job would interfer with your dumpster diving.



Yeah, it explains why I know far more than you do, and you are almost sixty times older than I am.



Actually I can post it right here, and our resident dinosaur Pixy will read it.



And you have shown that you understand nothing.



As so will Plasma, LCD, DLP and any other technology out there.




This is why I say your standards are much lower than mine. There are millions of CRT front projection based projection systems out there, and that does not include the cheap sets you so like to allude to. When you add in the cheap single tube sets, it totally dwarfs the amount of fixed panel sets out there. The only thing you "won" is the chance to take your next breath.



It is apparent we are talking about different CRT devices. All of your references are aimed at the single gun cheap televisions because you have no experience with any other. You were wrong about plasma, and you are wrong about high end CRT(that is what I am referring to). Neither is dead until you cannot purchase even one of them in the mass market(plasma) or the high end after market(high end CRT's). Just because high end CRT's are off your radar, does not mean they are completely out of the picture. While single gun CRT television are not being sold, high end projection system are still being sold, still being upgraded, and still commanding a fairly high price. So you can keep chiming up like some 2 year old that you won if it makes you feel better. But in reality, only your ignorance has won anything.

Round 4 up next.


I'm ignorant?
You dont even understand what an analogy is (look it up)

Those fine people making "CRTs" are scavengers, they are providing for the
replacement market, and its their job to produce replacement parts when its no longer economically feasible for the "majors" to do so.
Ever though that there was a reason that the "majors" arent messing with CRT anymore, genius?
The people making crt replacement tubes will be around until there isnt a market anymore,
or its not even economical for them to make them.
Theres not going to be any more R&D, ANY MORE DESIGNERS working on crt.
only production site set up on third world rice paddies, with labor cost at 1.00 an hour, maybe.
This massive market for front projection CRT exists only in one place, YOUR HEAD.
And that is the only thing that exists in there.
There is a very small market for a HT that has to be viewed in the dark, such a setup is good for one thing only, movies.
Most want to invite people over to watch the game, or are irked at the thought of paying thousands for something with limited use.
The drawbacks of the new type projectors are tiny when compared to the advantages,
very few if any can tell the difference.
So sit in your dark little cave and enjpy yopurself, hope you dont get too lonely:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I'm ignorant?
You dont even understand what an analogy is (look it up)

You do not know what I understand, and what I don't. Stick to what you know, and that shouldn't be much.


Those fine people making "CRTs" are scavengers, they are providing for the
replacement market, and its their job to produce replacement parts when its no longer economically feasible for the "majors" to do so.

It does not matter how it is being done, the fact is, its being done. The whole audio and video world does not revovle around what the majors do. The majors don't support high resolution music on Bluray, but it there.


Ever though that there was a reason that the "majors" arent messing with CRT anymore, genius?

The reason the major aren't messing with CRT's anymore (at least the high end) has nothing to do with performance. It the WAF and that is it. If panels where so great, then why are they chasing the high end CRT market in performance of black levels, greyscale tracking, contrast, instantaneous response, and getting the HD color gamut correct? Why does every mastering house in Hollywood and New York use HD CRT displays for mastering high definition titles? That quality that you see on bluray disc is largely because of the high quality of the display they use to master and author titles for release. There are no flat panels being used for mastering, and there is a reason for that.


The people making crt replacement tubes will be around until there isnt a market anymore,
or its not even economical for them to make them.

Exactly. But you said it was dead, and it is not, not by any stretch of the imagination.


Theres not going to be any more R&D, ANY MORE DESIGNERS working on crt.
only production site set up on third world rice paddies, with labor cost at 1.00 an hour, maybe.

But you are wrong again. Curt Palmer does do R&D on high end CRT projector and RPTV. He has added HDMI inputs to projectors when none had them. He has updated convergence software, provides special color correcting lenses, has created dozens of tweaks, and the list goes on. He has done two upgrades to my G-90 that has noticeably increased performance in several areas. He has essentially taken over where the majors have left off.


This massive market for front projection CRT exists only in one place, YOUR HEAD.
And that is the only thing that exists in there.

This is why I say you are ignorant as hell. There is a whole world that exists outside of your dumpster diving life, and you do not know it. However you feel that you can make educated comments on things you know nothing about, and are willing to dismiss what you cannot see in your world. You life is a small as that little brain of yours. I never said there was a "massive" market for high end CRT. I said that it wasn't dead stupid. Only a uneducated fool goes to these kinds of extremes to make a point.


There is a very small market for a HT that has to be viewed in the dark, such a setup is good for one thing only, movies.

Or really? What prevents you from watching HD from OTA? What prevents you from watching HD from cable except that it looks like crap? Nothing, its a display device that can be used to watch anything that you want on it. This is the limitations of your thinking, and the crust of your ignorance.


Most want to invite people over to watch the game, or are irked at the thought of paying thousands for something with limited use.

I have watch the superbowl with my G-90 so this statement at best is ignorant as hell.


The drawbacks of the new type projectors are tiny when compared to the advantages,
very few if any can tell the difference.
So sit in your dark little cave and enjpy yopurself, hope you dont get too lonely:1:

The drawbacks of the newer projectors is tiny when "good enough" is your way of thinking. But us "performance first" folks find the drawback so irritating and hard to miss, we keep our high performance dinosaurs. The day that I can purchase a projector that can do blacker than black on the pluge pattern, the day that motion blur disappears, the day the HD color gamut is reproduced accurately over the projectors range is the day that I will trade in both of my high performance dinosaurs for that projector. Until then, you just keep dumpster diving with your "good enough" perspective. As I have stated, your standards are much lower than mine are.

Its hard to get lonely when everyone if fighting over who looks at blurays on the high performance dinosaur.

I think you are jealous that you cannot afford anything more than a 37" vizio, that is why you talk up flat panel so much. It makes you feel better.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

(E-Stat warms up the tubes, pours a glass of wine and reads latest installment)
Hi guys. Anyone want to venture how many posts this thread will go? 150? 200?

Say TtT, I've got a friend who replaced his Barco projector with a new Sony HD unit (not sure what model) for his 100" screen. Very nice. How are the new Sony units?

rw

I think Sony's Pearl, and Dark Pear SXRD projectors are really nice. The only problem I have with them, and what keeps me from buying one is that I can see the motion blur on digital projectors. I can also see that they do not do black, or that their color gamut in HD is not correct. When they correct these problems, I will jump in and trade my G-90 and my custom RPTV in for it. JVC has a projector that comes close in black levels, but the motion blur and color issues are still a problem.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yeah, Sir T.
I know...this guy....who's building a new house with a dedicated HT Room and he wants a new projector...nothing fancy, decent value performer etc...can you steer m--er...this guy in the right direction?

Kex,
I have only really looked at the higher priced models, I have not seen anything else yet except Sony new Pearl projector. That one is reasonably priced, and if he is not a performance freak like I am, it will probably do for him just fine.

Right now I am doing research into 4k projectors for my post production studio that will be opening up later this year for business. The studio is being built as we speak! I am really excited, as it has been about 4 years since I had to close my other studio because it needed millions of dollars in earthquake retrofitting.

[pixelthis]

You do not know what I understand, and what I don't. Stick to what you know, and that shouldn't be much.



It does not matter how it is being done, the fact is, its being done. The whole audio and video world does not revovle around what the majors do. The majors don't support high resolution music on Bluray, but it there.



The reason the major aren't messing with CRT's anymore (at least the high end) has nothing to do with performance. It the WAF and that is it. If panels where so great, then why are they chasing the high end CRT market in performance of black levels, greyscale tracking, contrast, instantaneous response, and getting the HD color gamut correct? Why does every mastering house in Hollywood and New York use HD CRT displays for mastering high definition titles? That quality that you see on bluray disc is largely because of the high quality of the display they use to master and author titles for release. There are no flat panels being used for mastering, and there is a reason for that.



Exactly. But you said it was dead, and it is not, not by any stretch of the imagination.



But you are wrong again. Curt Palmer does do R&D on high end CRT projector and RPTV. He has added HDMI inputs to projectors when none had them. He has updated convergence software, provides special color correcting lenses, has created dozens of tweaks, and the list goes on. He has done two upgrades to my G-90 that has noticeably increased performance in several areas. He has essentially taken over where the majors have left off.



This is why I say you are ignorant as hell. There is a whole world that exists outside of your dumpster diving life, and you do not know it. However you feel that you can make educated comments on things you know nothing about, and are willing to dismiss what you cannot see in your world. You life is a small as that little brain of yours. I never said there was a "massive" market for high end CRT. I said that it wasn't dead stupid. Only a uneducated fool goes to these kinds of extremes to make a point.



Or really? What prevents you from watching HD from OTA? What prevents you from watching HD from cable except that it looks like crap? Nothing, its a display device that can be used to watch anything that you want on it. This is the limitations of your thinking, and the crust of your ignorance.



I have watch the superbowl with my G-90 so this statement at best is ignorant as hell.



The drawbacks of the newer projectors is tiny when "good enough" is your way of thinking. But us "performance first" folks find the drawback so irritating and hard to miss, we keep our high performance dinosaurs. The day that I can purchase a projector that can do blacker than black on the pluge pattern, the day that motion blur disappears, the day the HD color gamut is reproduced accurately over the projectors range is the day that I will trade in both of my high performance dinosaurs for that projector. Until then, you just keep dumpster diving with your "good enough" perspective. As I have stated, your standards are much lower than mine are.

Its hard to get lonely when everyone if fighting over who looks at blurays on the high performance dinosaur.

I think you are jealous that you cannot afford anything more than a 37" vizio, that is why you talk up flat panel so much. It makes you feel better.


You prefer the picture of your dinosaur.
Thats fine, some still like to ride horses.
Horses any car can outrun.
Whether or not I can "afford" an antique monstrosity with a lifespan of a few years is
irrelavant, point is I'd be stupid to buy one.
THEY can make a display with 2,000 p, why not get one of those?
A rousch porsch has to be certified to go 200 mph before it can be sold, why not buy one of those? GET some real value for your money.
And I HAVENT BEEN "TALKING UP FLAT PANEL", I have been talking about display projectors, primarily DLP and LCOS, the future, btw.
THESE PROJECTORS HAVE 99% OF THE PERFORMANCE
of one of your "dinosaurs" at a fraction of the price.
I am talking about real world tech, stuff that people with lives can afford,
and that will beat the pants off of your crt dinos in real world conditions.
Is one of your dinos "better" at black level by .001 %?
WHO CARES.
I certainly dont, and that doesnt make me a compromiser, because I AM already
a compromiser, everybody is.
There is a certain point of deminishing returns that it becomes rediculous to keep pouring
massive sums of money into something for smaller and smaller returns.
Most get as much performance as they can afford, but sooner or later all
begin to question spending thousands for tiny increments of improvement.
You have a great system if you have a ton of money to waste and are hermit that
borders on autistic.
Have fun sitting in that "cave" of yours:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

You prefer the picture of your dinosaur.

This is correct. I prefer it because it looks better than any of the flat panel out there, not to mention beats them in every performance catagory that is important for getting high quality images.


Thats fine, some still like to ride horses.
Horses any car can outrun.
Whether or not I can "afford" an antique monstrosity with a lifespan of a few years is
irrelavant, point is I'd be stupid to buy one.

You shouldn't have any problem getting used to a antique monstrosity, you are one. CRT of all kinds have a longer track record on the market than any flat panel. So to say that it has a life span of only a few years shows more ignorance than your last responses. A friend of mine's plasma pooped out after only two years of use. My grandmother is still sporting a RCA brand single tube CRT she has had for more than twenty years.

You would be stupid to buy a high end projection system. Performance is not your bag, how cheap something is fits you much better.



THEY can make a display with 2,000 p, why not get one of those?

A display that does 2000p would be far larger and monstrous than my current RPTV and G-90. If you are wailing about the size of the device(I believe you have used monstrous several times about my CRT based RPTV) then this would defeat the purpose. If it takes 150", and the inablility of getting the display in my hometheater to get 2160p, it would take something just a "little" smaller(and I mean just a little smaller) to get enough pixels to do 2000p. 2000p is not made for the home just for that reason, it would take a huge device to get enough pixel on the screen to do 2000p. You should know this, you claim to know more than anyone else around here.


A rousch porsch has to be certified to go 200 mph before it can be sold, why not buy one of those? GET some real value for your money.

I thought we were talking about display devices. How did we get to cars? You wander in your discussion far too much.


And I HAVENT BEEN "TALKING UP FLAT PANEL", I have been talking about display projectors, primarily DLP and LCOS, the future, btw.
THESE PROJECTORS HAVE 99% OF THE PERFORMANCE

Sorry, but you know not what you speak old fool. There is no digital projector out there that does anywhere close to 2000x2500 lines of clean clear information. ZERO! There are no digital display devices that do a TRUE 20,000:1 constrast ratio. Even the best consumer based digital projector out there barely does 8,000:1, and it highly depends on how you measure it. NONE of the digital projectors display the proper color gamut for HD images. All digital projectors have motion and blur problems. DLP still has rainbow problems that I can clearly see, even the more expensive ones have it. Even the most expensive LCD projector still presents black as grey, even though JVC rsp1 comes closer to doing black that I have seen out of any digital projector. So before you pull a number like 99% to describe how close they are in performance, you need to actually compare, which is something you haven't done, and I have. You have NO experience with high end CRT's, you are just using your experience with cheap single gun CRT's as your reference. You have not seen all that many digital projectors out there or you wouldn't be making these outrageous claims on their performance. Digital projection is getting better and better each year, but it still has quite a ways to go to catch up with high end CRT based projection system. Even Joe Kane admits that, are you going to challenge his word as well?


of one of your "dinosaurs" at a fraction of the price.
I am talking about real world tech, stuff that people with lives can afford,
and that will beat the pants off of your crt dinos in real world conditions.

Man, you just continue to lie and lie just to stay in the game. As I have explained above, there is currently no parimeter that these new digital projectors beat a high end CRT based projector. There is no $5,000 dollar digital projector than looks better (except for sharpness) than a Sony G-90 or an electrohome 9500. NONE. There is no $10,000 projector who performance exceeds the G-90 or the 9500. From what I have seen out there, you would have to spend upwards of $60,000 dollars on a 2k or 4k digital projector to even come close, but you still have black level problems. The single chip digital display are not even in the same ballpark as a three gun high end CRT projector. The three chip digital displays come close, but are far more expensive than a high end CRT projector.

When you talk of displays that YOU can afford, there is nothing out there that would even compete with a data grade CRT projector let alone a graghics grade one.


Is one of your dinos "better" at black level by .001 %?

Well, one of my dino does 30,000:1 measured, the other 25,000:1. That is easily below black on the pluge pattern. The best measured digital display I have seen is a $60,000 Sony 4K projector that does 20,000:1. It does it without the auto iris found on most digital displays to help them get better black levels. There is nothing out there below $20,000 that comes close to either of these two measurements. So I think its is quite a bit better than .001%. Just throwing out these abstract numbers shows just how ignorant you are on this issue.


WHO CARES.
I certainly dont, and that doesnt make me a compromiser, because I AM already
a compromiser, everybody is.

You are a huge compromiser if you would take a cheap a$$ digital projector over a high end CRT projector. Performance is not your bag, price is. That is the driving factor for you. You will compromise every area of display performance just to save a buck. I am not that guy. I will pay for performance gains, only if they offer a visual or audible improvement. I do not buy just for the sake of expensive, but I will buy an expensive piece of eqiupment if it is the best my dollar can buy. This is why I say your ceiling is my floor.


There is a certain point of deminishing returns that it becomes rediculous to keep pouring
massive sums of money into something for smaller and smaller returns.

This is where your arguement is getting twisted. I have already purchased my stuff, so I am not pouring money anywhere. I bought high quality stuff from the get go, stuff that is upgradeable either via firmware, or pull out modules like my video processors have. I bought my G-90 several years ago, and the upgrades to it have cost me next to nothing. Each and every upgrade I that was done produced visual results, so its money well spent. When the performance of the digital projectors catches up with my setup, I will go with the digital display. That is what folks that like the best images on their screens do. Until it catches up, I will enjoy my dinos, upgrades and all.


Most get as much performance as they can afford, but sooner or later all
begin to question spending thousands for tiny increments of improvement.

Well, when I begin to spend thousands and thousands on improvements, then we can talk. But the improvements I have done have not cost anywhere near that amount. This is why I know that you do not know anything about CRT's beyond the cheap single gun type.


You have a great system if you have a ton of money to waste and are hermit that
borders on autistic.
Have fun sitting in that "cave" of yours:1:

This smacks of pure jealousy, and is laughable. You are just a mediocre person, with mediocre taste, with no understanding of the value of performance, or any idea of what performance is except what you TALK about rather than own.

Let's face it pixelass, you have seen a few cheap digital projectors and think they are the end all. I have been researching projectors of all kinds for the last six to seven months for my studio. You have been hear talking about them, while I have been actually viewing them. You talk about how good you THINK they are, but I have seen them measured and compared against each other. What you need to do if you are going to have this discussion with me is to get off of your fat cheap a$$, look at a properly calibrated and tweaked G-90 or 9500, and go and compare that to any projector costing what you think is reasonable. That would be alot more productive and informative than just sitting on your fat old ignorant a$$ throwing out abstract percentages and numbers, and making stupid claims that are not supported by fact and measurements.

[pixelthis]

This is correct. I prefer it because it looks better than any of the flat panel out there, not to mention beats them in every performance catagory that is important for getting high quality images.



You shouldn't have any problem getting used to a antique monstrosity, you are one. CRT of all kinds have a longer track record on the market than any flat panel. So to say that it has a life span of only a few years shows more ignorance than your last responses. A friend of mine's plasma pooped out after only two years of use. My grandmother is still sporting a RCA brand single tube CRT she has had for more than twenty years.

You would be stupid to buy a high end projection system. Performance is not your bag, how cheap something is fits you much better.




A display that does 2000p would be far larger and monstrous than my current RPTV and G-90. If you are wailing about the size of the device(I believe you have used monstrous several times about my CRT based RPTV) then this would defeat the purpose. If it takes 150", and the inablility of getting the display in my hometheater to get 2160p, it would take something just a "little" smaller(and I mean just a little smaller) to get enough pixels to do 2000p. 2000p is not made for the home just for that reason, it would take a huge device to get enough pixel on the screen to do 2000p. You should know this, you claim to know more than anyone else around here.



I thought we were talking about display devices. How did we get to cars? You wander in your discussion far too much.



Sorry, but you know not what you speak old fool. There is no digital projector out there that does anywhere close to 2000x2500 lines of clean clear information. ZERO! There are no digital display devices that do a TRUE 20,000:1 constrast ratio. Even the best consumer based digital projector out there barely does 8,000:1, and it highly depends on how you measure it. NONE of the digital projectors display the proper color gamut for HD images. All digital projectors have motion and blur problems. DLP still has rainbow problems that I can clearly see, even the more expensive ones have it. Even the most expensive LCD projector still presents black as grey, even though JVC rsp1 comes closer to doing black that I have seen out of any digital projector. So before you pull a number like 99% to describe how close they are in performance, you need to actually compare, which is something you haven't done, and I have. You have NO experience with high end CRT's, you are just using your experience with cheap single gun CRT's as your reference. You have not seen all that many digital projectors out there or you wouldn't be making these outrageous claims on their performance. Digital projection is getting better and better each year, but it still has quite a ways to go to catch up with high end CRT based projection system. Even Joe Kane admits that, are you going to challenge his word as well?



Man, you just continue to lie and lie just to stay in the game. As I have explained above, there is currently no parimeter that these new digital projectors beat a high end CRT based projector. There is no $5,000 dollar digital projector than looks better (except for sharpness) than a Sony G-90 or an electrohome 9500. NONE. There is no $10,000 projector who performance exceeds the G-90 or the 9500. From what I have seen out there, you would have to spend upwards of $60,000 dollars on a 2k or 4k digital projector to even come close, but you still have black level problems. The single chip digital display are not even in the same ballpark as a three gun high end CRT projector. The three chip digital displays come close, but are far more expensive than a high end CRT projector.

When you talk of displays that YOU can afford, there is nothing out there that would even compete with a data grade CRT projector let alone a graghics grade one.



Well, one of my dino does 30,000:1 measured, the other 25,000:1. That is easily below black on the pluge pattern. The best measured digital display I have seen is a $60,000 Sony 4K projector that does 20,000:1. It does it without the auto iris found on most digital displays to help them get better black levels. There is nothing out there below $20,000 that comes close to either of these two measurements. So I think its is quite a bit better than .001%. Just throwing out these abstract numbers shows just how ignorant you are on this issue.



You are a huge compromiser if you would take a cheap a$$ digital projector over a high end CRT projector. Performance is not your bag, price is. That is the driving factor for you. You will compromise every area of display performance just to save a buck. I am not that guy. I will pay for performance gains, only if they offer a visual or audible improvement. I do not buy just for the sake of expensive, but I will buy an expensive piece of eqiupment if it is the best my dollar can buy. This is why I say your ceiling is my floor.



This is where your arguement is getting twisted. I have already purchased my stuff, so I am not pouring money anywhere. I bought high quality stuff from the get go, stuff that is upgradeable either via firmware, or pull out modules like my video processors have. I bought my G-90 several years ago, and the upgrades to it have cost me next to nothing. Each and every upgrade I that was done produced visual results, so its money well spent. When the performance of the digital projectors catches up with my setup, I will go with the digital display. That is what folks that like the best images on their screens do. Until it catches up, I will enjoy my dinos, upgrades and all.



Well, when I begin to spend thousands and thousands on improvements, then we can talk. But the improvements I have done have not cost anywhere near that amount. This is why I know that you do not know anything about CRT's beyond the cheap single gun type.



This smacks of pure jealousy, and is laughable. You are just a mediocre person, with mediocre taste, with no understanding of the value of performance, or any idea of what performance is except what you TALK about rather than own.

Let's face it pixelass, you have seen a few cheap digital projectors and think they are the end all. I have been researching projectors of all kinds for the last six to seven months for my studio. You have been hear talking about them, while I have been actually viewing them. You talk about how good you THINK they are, but I have seen them measured and compared against each other. What you need to do if you are going to have this discussion with me is to get off of your fat cheap a$$, look at a properly calibrated and tweaked G-90 or 9500, and go and compare that to any projector costing what you think is reasonable. That would be alot more productive and informative than just sitting on your fat old ignorant a$$ throwing out abstract percentages and numbers, and making stupid claims that are not supported by fact and measurements.


If you are pathetic enough of a human being that its important for someone to be "jealous"
of your antique crap , then thats sad, really.
YEAH, a CRT front projector is the ultimate, yeah, right, that is why NO one makes em anymore.
And dont hand me that "good enough" crap, that is a cop out to justify YOUR stupid decisions, like spending a small fortune on something that has ONE USE, sitting in the dark and watching a friggin movie, thats IT.
well, maybe you can play a CD.
You just dont GET it, a .00001 improvement in black level isnt enough of a justification
to spend thousands on a one function device, that will sit unused most of the time.
The point I am trying to make is that your so called "quest" for "perfection" is a rationalization, a way to justify spending a fortune on crap, when the real reason is that you are afraid of change, like those turntable and tube loonies, you are scared of the future,
you spent your life investing in a certain way of doing things and now thats GONE,
AND IT WONT BE COMING BACK.
sad, really :1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

His avatar inspires me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

If you are pathetic enough of a human being that its important for someone to be "jealous"

Who said it was important? I just stated an observation. I think its pathetic that you are jealous.


of your antique crap , then thats sad, really.
YEAH, a CRT front projector is the ultimate, yeah, right, that is why NO one makes em anymore.

Unlike yourself, I am not the sheeple type. I do not follow what the masses do. That is systemic of a person who cannot think for himself, or at all. You are the sheeple type, the cheap sheeple type. You do things just because everyone else is doing it, but you do it on the cheap. It doesn't matter that they don't make them anymore, you can still find them, and they still outperform digital projectors out there on the market. If that was not so, then Curt Palmer's company and other like his would not exist.


And dont hand me that "good enough" crap, that is a cop out to justify YOUR stupid decisions, like spending a small fortune on something that has ONE USE, sitting in the dark and watching a friggin movie, thats IT.

Look stupid old man, I do not have to prove anything to anyone. I do not have to justify anything to anyone. I make my decision based on my research, not sitting in a chair in the backwoods with one tooth in my mouth, and a coors beer in my hand. You do not know what I have spent, you do not know how much these things cost anymore. This ONE USE arguement is a red herring. I can watch anything on my projector that anyone else can watch on theirs. The digital projectors are nothing more than a digital implementation of projection television, and CRT's are analog. What are you stupid? Do you think that digital projection has some magic feature that allows it to project something that cannot be projected with a CRT based projection system? You ignorance is profound pixelstupid.


You just dont GET it, a .00001 improvement in black level isnt enough of a justification
to spend thousands on a one function device, that will sit unused most of the time.

There you go again with throwing out abstract numbers again. Pixelfoo, you cannot try and fill in the blanks of your ignorance with abstract information. Its not just an improvement in black levels, can't you read? Its improvement in contrast level, black levels, more accurate color gamut, the ability to be tweaked for higher resolutions. Part of the problems with color accuracy on the digital projectors stems from the fact that they cannot reproduce blacks. I use my projector every day, so you are bull$hitting when you say it will just sit idle most of the time. I use mine for special television programs, watching movies from bluray and HD satellite just like you can use a digital projector for.


The point I am trying to make is that your so called "quest" for "perfection" is a rationalization, a way to justify spending a fortune on crap, when the real reason is that you are afraid of change, like those turntable and tube loonies, you are scared of the future,
you spent your life investing in a certain way of doing things and now thats GONE,
AND IT WONT BE COMING BACK.
sad, really :1:

I am afraid of change? Do you own a bluray player? Do you own a HD DVD player? No, you own neither. I ditched my DVD players two years ago. I bought into DVD the first year it came to market. I bought a bluray and HD DVD player because they are an improvment over DVD. I bought DVD because it was an improvement over VHS. I purchased DVD-A and SACD because it had performance advantages over CD. I bought my CRT projector because it was an improvement over what was out there when I purchased it. I will purchase a digital projector when it offers an improvement over what I currently have. What you do not seem to get is that we think fundamentally differently. Your a cheapskate, I am not. You are ignorant and uniformed, I am not. I will pay for the performance advantages, you won't because you don't treasure performance, you are a penny counter. I have been out there looking at projectors, you are here talking about what you think. I prefer my eyes over your big uninformed mouth. When I see the digital projectors outperforming my CRT's, I will give up my CRT's. However I am not going to spend $60k for a projector that get you in the ballpark, but is not a home run. And to my eyes there is nothing under $20k that will outperform my CRT's. I am not in love with stuff, I am in love with performance and quality. This is something you are having a hard time getting because it doesn't mean anything to you. You can justify the lesser because its cheaper, and everyone is buying them. Everyone is also bankrupting themselves shopping at your favorite place, Walmart. Just because that is what they are doing, does not mean that is what I am going to do.

You continue to play follow the leader sheeplecheapskate, I know its easier for you to not think and just follow the masses. There are some of us that are not interested in following that path.

You still are trying to evade answering this question. Why if digital flat panels and digital projection are so much better you cannot find one in use in the mastering houses in Hollywood? Surely if they were so much better, Hollywood would be all over them since they are now mastering high definition titles. Are you going to say they are behind the times as well?

[pixelthis]

Who said it was important? I just stated an observation. I think its pathetic that you are jealous.
Jealous of what?






Unlike yourself, I am not the sheeple type. I do not follow what the masses do. That is systemic of a person who cannot think for himself, or at all. You are the sheeple type, the cheap sheeple type. You do things just because everyone else is doing it, but you do it on the cheap. It doesn't matter that they don't make them anymore, you can still find them, and they still outperform digital projectors out there on the market. If that was not so, then Curt Palmer's company and other like his would not exist.


EVERYBODY follows what the "masses" do, there is no way around it.
High end audio and video float on a sea of mass market tech, and even then its not feasible sometimes to do certain things.
This is why its important to raise the level of awareness for "civilians".
Not only for their increased enjoyment, but if they buy better stuff than we in the HT world will get better stuff.
And this is why mass market form factors like LCD, DLP, LCOS, and eventually OLED
are important. THE MORE YOU CAN SELL the better they will be at a lower price and the larger the "high end" of the market will be.
If it gives your fragil ego a sense of superiority to play aroound with something that is obsolete, then by all means do so. You and "curt palmer " can scrounge the junkyards of the world for parts for your creations, maybe it'll keep you out of other peoples hair


Look stupid old man, I do not have to prove anything to anyone. I do not have to justify anything to anyone. I make my decision based on my research, not sitting in a chair in the backwoods with one tooth in my mouth, and a coors beer in my hand. You do not know what I have spent, you do not know how much these things cost anymore. This ONE USE arguement is a red herring. I can watch anything on my projector that anyone else can watch on theirs. The digital projectors are nothing more than a digital implementation of projection television, and CRT's are analog. What are you stupid? Do you think that digital projection has some magic feature that allows it to project something that cannot be projected with a CRT based projection system? You ignorance is profound pixelstupid.

CRT is limited by the light output of a phosper being hit by an electron beam, thats
why light output goes down for increased resolutions, because a finer pitch is needed for pixels, and they put out less light as a result.
Microdisplays can take a lot of light before they start to melt.
brightness is the chief failing of CRT, they were meant to be direct view, trying to use them for projection is like trying to fly to the moon in a Cessna.
DLP and other formats at the finest are limited by the diameter of a photon, a CRT
is limited by the diameter of an electron, and even if you could make a phosper dot that small it could never put out enough light.
AND DONT FORGET brightness is important to people, its why they like LCD and the new formats, it why every manufacturer has sold sets with the contrast set to "torch"
mode with the HT crowd complaining all the way.
OH, I forget, you dont live in the real world



There you go again with throwing out abstract numbers again. Pixelfoo, you cannot try and fill in the blanks of your ignorance with abstract information. Its not just an improvement in black levels, can't you read? Its improvement in contrast level, black levels, more accurate color gamut, the ability to be tweaked for higher resolutions. Part of the problems with color accuracy on the digital projectors stems from the fact that they cannot reproduce blacks. I use my projector every day, so you are bull$hitting when you say it will just sit idle most of the time. I use mine for special television programs, watching movies from bluray and HD satellite just like you can use a digital projector for.

Not in a lit room you dont.
The "black level" is the only advantage of crt, and its slim.
THE BLACK LEVEL ON MY SET IS QUITE GOOD, and the lack of glare means I can use it in real world conditions, and when I want to do serious watching I just turn down the backlight , at 50% the picture is quite good.
AND color purity has NOTHING to do with black level, BTW, NOT THAT THE NEW PANELS CANT REPRODUCE BLACK , they can, AND QUITE WELL.
And OLED is gradually being ramped up, unlike even crt, the black level is PERFECT.
That oughta shut up you "black level" fanatics.
But it wont, you will just find some other excuse to hang onto your crap, while most move to OLED screens the size of a wall.



I am afraid of change? Do you own a bluray player? Do you own a HD DVD player? No, you own neither. I ditched my DVD players two years ago. I bought into DVD the first year it came to market. I bought a bluray and HD DVD player because they are an improvment over DVD. I bought DVD because it was an improvement over VHS. I purchased DVD-A and SACD because it had performance advantages over CD. I bought my CRT projector because it was an improvement over what was out there when I purchased it. I will purchase a digital projector when it offers an improvement over what I currently have. What you do not seem to get is that we think fundamentally differently. Your a cheapskate, I am not. You are ignorant and uniformed, I am not. I will pay for the performance advantages, you won't because you don't treasure performance, you are a penny counter. I have been out there looking at projectors, you are here talking about what you think. I prefer my eyes over your big uninformed mouth. When I see the digital projectors outperforming my CRT's, I will give up my CRT's. However I am not going to spend $60k for a projector that get you in the ballpark, but is not a home run. And to my eyes there is nothing under $20k that will outperform my CRT's. I am not in love with stuff, I am in love with performance and quality. This is something you are having a hard time getting because it doesn't mean anything to you. You can justify the lesser because its cheaper, and everyone is buying them. Everyone is also bankrupting themselves shopping at your favorite place, Walmart. Just because that is what they are doing, does not mean that is what I am going to do.

You are in love with yourself, mostly.
My first DVD player was 450 bucks, had no component because that wasnt out yet.
When DVD came out I bought a 600$ panasonic model, when DVD players were selling for 50 bucks, so lay off of the "cheapskate" crap.
I am not a "cheapskate" neither am I A FOOL., UNLIKE YOURSELF.
I am not going to buy a half dozen different blu players in order to get the "best" that is currently out there, been there, done that.
In a year maybe, when everything has been finalized and the price drops a bit, maybe.
This "cheapskate" has a 1200 dollar receiver, maybe not much to you but it was a sacrifice to buy it.
And its only four years old AND OBSOLETE.
They have come out with THREE formats for video since I bought it four years ago, rendering the component video switching obsolete.
I paid for that feature, and now its useless.
Not going to do that with blu, or anything else.
My first DVD player had no component out, my second had component but no progressive scan, my third dvd audio, progresive scan, NO SACD.
Screw it, I am waiting


You continue to play follow the leader sheeplecheapskate, I know its easier for you to not think and just follow the masses. There are some of us that are not interested in following that path.

You "follow" that path whether or not you think so.
EVERY conference room at my old job had panasonic front projectors with seven"
guns, eventually they were replaced by DLP at a fraction of the size and a lot more performance, those pannys werent far off from what YOU have.
And my company had about a dozen of them.
YOU always follow the "masses", unless you are fabricating your own parts



You still are trying to evade answering this question. Why if digital flat panels and digital projection are so much better you cannot find one in use in the mastering houses in Hollywood? Surely if they were so much better, Hollywood would be all over them since they are now mastering high definition titles. Are you going to say they are behind the times as well?

I dont give a rats ass about what the "mastering houses " in hollywood,
why should I?
I use my gear for entertainment, they use theirs for work.
And I can bet that if CRT is being used its in the budget for replacement, as soon as the old stuff wears out.
I bought B&W speakers not because they are preferred by studio engineers,
but because they are scary good for the price.
BTW all of the departments , including endoscophy, at the hospital where I work, have dumped all of their CRTS, NOTHING BUT HIGH RES LCD PANELS are used now.
They are betting peoples lives on this tech.
But if its not good enough for you...

Those "mastering houses " are like any other business, you dont throw away a capital investment.
CRT is obsolete, that means that theres better out there, doesnt mean it still cant be used.
But I CAN GUARENTEE YA, it will be gone in a few years:1:

[E-Stat]

I think Sony's Pearl, and Dark Pear SXRD projectors are really nice. The only problem I have with them, and what keeps me from buying one is that I can see the motion blur on digital projectors.
Yours is a more critical eye than mine. Thanks.

rw

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

.
Jealous of what?

You tell me? Maybe because you are stuck with a cheap 37" vizio that can barely do 720p properly.




EVERYBODY follows what the "masses" do, there is no way around it.

You cannot speak for everybody. Some folks think for themselves. Now you may follow the masses for the simple reason that you cannot.


High end audio and video float on a sea of mass market tech, and even then its not feasible sometimes to do certain things.

I hate to bring this bad new to you stupid, but flat panels started off as a high end product. Revox was the first to exibit one at CES, and Revox was not a mass market brand. The first flat panel was out of the price range of mass market, but as manufacturing cost went down, the technology moved into the mainstream. Almost all electronics in the past started off in the high end and worked its way down.



This is why its important to raise the level of awareness for "civilians".
Not only for their increased enjoyment, but if they buy better stuff than we in the HT world will get better stuff.

Not necessarily. Arcam produced excellent CD and DVD players. Much of what they did in terms of design, quality of parts, and R&D will never be seen in the mass market. Its too costly to meet mass market pricing. Runco introduce constant height 2:35:1 with their special processing. You can find this on other high end projection systems, but you will never find it in mass market projectors that cost less than $5k because it is too expensive to implement at that price point. Wadia, Krell, California Audio Labs all have some of the best CD players out there. But you will not find the kinds of processors and parts in these players in mass market players, they would be too expensive. The mass market is full of performance compromises, and it has to be that way to meet mass market price points. The high end is driven by performance, not price, so compromises are greatly reduced.


And this is why mass market form factors like LCD, DLP, LCOS, and eventually OLED
are important. THE MORE YOU CAN SELL the better they will be at a lower price and the larger the "high end" of the market will be.

The high end was never meant to be large. This is another case of your coors beer mentality trying to grasp Dom perrion concepts. The high end market is performance driven, the mass market price driven. By logic the mass market will always be larger than the high end market. In the last 10 years, the mass market has grown, and the high end has shrunk profoundly as consumer look to get their components alot cheaper than they used to. When I bought my first CD player, it was over a grand. When I bought my first DVD player it was over a grand. Now you have folks crying over the price of a $400 bluray player. Once again to illustrate my point. There were CRT based high end projectors that could do an accurate 1080p back in 1997. Today the mass market is dominated by 720p displays, and displays that can barely do 1080p.


If it gives your fragil ego a sense of superiority to play aroound with something that is obsolete, then by all means do so. You and "curt palmer " can scrounge the junkyards of the world for parts for your creations, maybe it'll keep you out of other peoples hair

I thought being a low budget dumpster diver was going to keep you busy a while. But it looks like you can sift through trash and still be here to give some fleas. Its pretty clear that you did not make it past the third grade.

Obsolete \Ob"so*lete\, a. [L. obsoletus, p. p. of obsolescere. See Obsolescent.]

1. No longer in use; gone into disuse; disused; neglected; as, an obsolete word; an obsolete statute; -- applied chiefly to words, writings, or observances.

Your english is apparently as challenged as your knowledge of electronics. If I own, and thousand of others own and use something, it cannot be obsolete. If anyone is working to improve something, it is not neglected. If Curt Palmer is restoring and selling hundreds of high end projectors a year, then they are not no longer in use. I would try moving on to the fourth grade. It might improve your understanding of the english language.



CRT is limited by the light output of a phosper being hit by an electron beam, thats
why light output goes down for increased resolutions, because a finer pitch is needed for pixels, and they put out less light as a result.

Yes, but Sony, Electrohome, Ampro, Vidikitron, and Runco managed to create CRT's that exceed 1200 lumens(Sony and Electrohome 1300) and can still do an accurate 1080p and meet SMPTE specifications on a 130" screen. Its called 9" CRT's, which are capable of getting more light on the screen than a single gun CRT, even at higher resolutions.


Microdisplays can take a lot of light before they start to melt.
brightness is the chief failing of CRT, they were meant to be direct view, trying to use them for projection is like trying to fly to the moon in a Cessna.

Well that Cessna must have made it to the moon, because three gun CRT's are better performers in all areas than a single gun CRT. The best single gun CRT can do is 480i, with the exception of the HD CRT displays which cost $40 grand, and can do 1080p. Secondly, Joe Kane, you know the dude you like to quote alot(wrongly I might add) says that movies should be viewed in a dark room with a single bias light for smaller displays. That does not require eye searing levels of brightness, and if you have ever seen a properly calibrated display(and you have probably not based on this continued brightness arguement) you cannot view it in anything place but a darkened room, I do not care if the display is a LCD, LYCOS, DLP or plasma. So this whole CRT cannot do as much light as digital projectors is a red herring of an arguement at best.


DLP and other formats at the finest are limited by the diameter of a photon, a CRT
is limited by the diameter of an electron, and even if you could make a phosper dot that small it could never put out enough light.

Somehow somebody invented a three 9" CRT based projector that can do 1080p accurately, and meet SMPTE standards for light output on a 130" screen. The last testing on DLP television found that only one could accurately produce a 1080p image, even if it had more peak light than a CRT. So this comment rings as hollow as the space between your ears.


AND DONT FORGET brightness is important to people, its why they like LCD and the new formats, it why every manufacturer has sold sets with the contrast set to "torch"
mode with the HT crowd complaining all the way.
OH, I forget, you dont live in the real world

I certainly don't live in the world you just describe. That your world, you know, the "good enough" crowd. Not my people. And keeping your set in the torch mode kills bulb life, and bulbs are not cheap.


Not in a lit room you dont.
The "black level" is the only advantage of crt, and its slim.

Man you are a thick headed fool. Black level is not the only advantage of CRT. Contrast levels, the ability to accurately display the HD color gamut, the ability to properly track the greyscale over the sets operating range, instantaneous response, and no blur are CRT's advantages. Once again, you do not watch movies in a lit room unless you don't care about image quality. You cannot get the contast correct. But you don't care because performance is not your issue, price is.


THE BLACK LEVEL ON MY SET IS QUITE GOOD, and the lack of glare means I can use it in real world conditions, and when I want to do serious watching I just turn down the backlight , at 50% the picture is quite good.

When YOU say something is quite good, it probably crappy. Your vizio has a real world contrast ratio of about 300:1. I have seen those cheap a$$ sets in Costco. Black is grey, no matter how you slice it. When you say the picture is quite good, it probably looks like $hit becuase the price was right, even if the performance was in the toilet. Your ceiling is my floor, there is no doubt about that. I wouldn't put a vizio in my bathroom. But that is just me.


AND color purity has NOTHING to do with black level, BTW, NOT THAT THE NEW PANELS CANT REPRODUCE BLACK , they can, AND QUITE WELL.

You are in denial pixelstupid. Everyone knows that neither plasma, DLP, nor LCD can do black. Its dark grey. And if you cannot do black well, then the entire greyscale is off kilter, which effects how the color gamut is preceived by the eyes. These things do not work in isolation, they work in combination. If one is off, it effects all of the other parimeters as well. You will find that out when you purchase AVIA or Videoessentials and try and calibrate the thing. If blacker than black looks like grey on the pluge signal, then your greyscale tracking is completely off all the way to white.


And OLED is gradually being ramped up, unlike even crt, the black level is PERFECT.
That oughta shut up you "black level" fanatics.
But it wont, you will just find some other excuse to hang onto your crap, while most move to OLED screens the size of a wall.

Strange thing to say coming from you. I moved on to bluray, you are still doing DVD. I moved on to projection, you are still using a cheap 37" flat panel television. If there is anyone hanging on to anything, its you. Call me when OLED is larger than 11" and is cheaper than $2700 for that size. Sony is still at the prototype stage at 27". I am going to get quite a few years of perfect 1080p bliss, accurate greyscale, accurate HD color gamut, excellent contrast ratio, and the ability to do blacks before it gets to a reasonable price point.



You are in love with yourself, mostly.

Anyone that doesn't love themselves has some serious issues.


My first DVD player was 450 bucks, had no component because that wasnt out yet.
When DVD came out I bought a 600$ panasonic model, when DVD players were selling for 50 bucks, so lay off of the "cheapskate" crap.

You really think I am stupid. By the time DVD players were $50, there was very few players even over $300 bucks. Once again lying just to make a point. You got into DVD three years after it entered the market, because all of the first generation models from every manufacturer were over $1000. The next year the average price was around $600. Cheapskates dumpster dive and settle for cheap flat panel TV's



I am not a "cheapskate" neither am I A FOOL., UNLIKE YOURSELF.

You are both a cheapskate AND a fool. Everyone here knows that, you are the only one who doesn't.


I am not going to buy a half dozen different blu players in order to get the "best" that is currently out there, been there, done that.

You haven't even bought one yet, let alone a half a dozen.


In a year maybe, when everything has been finalized and the price drops a bit, maybe.

When everything is finalized. It has been for two years idiot. Oh and that price thing again(oh I am not cheap). The PS3 is a full profile player that does everything the format is spec for. You can find one for less than $400 dollars these days, or does it have to get to $50 to get your attention? Face it cheepie, your a cheepy.



This "cheapskate" has a 1200 dollar receiver, maybe not much to you but it was a sacrifice to buy it.
And its only four years old AND OBSOLETE.

Becoming tough to stretch that social security check huh? Well a $500 receiver is probably more full featured today than yours. Maybe if you ate dog food for a year you could get a new one.


They have come out with THREE formats for video since I bought it four years ago, rendering the component video switching obsolete.
I paid for that feature, and now its useless.

Yeah, well it was useless when you bought it. Component video switching in receivers is not a transparent process. The video bandwidth rolls off prematurely, and receiver from 4 years ago could not even reproduce the entire bandwidth of the DVD format without rolling off the high end. Anyone relying on that as a switching devices cannot have quality in their minds. Funny, I though only two video formats have been new in four years. DVD was not new four years ago, it was new eleven years ago. The only new video formats we have seen since DVD is HD DVD and Bluray. What is the third?


Not going to do that with blu, or anything else.
My first DVD player had no component out, my second had component but no progressive scan, my third dvd audio, progresive scan, NO SACD.
Screw it, I am waiting

And you accuse me of holding on to old stuff. LOL. Get a PS3, its a fully featured player that fully meets the bluray spec. They'll be four more standalones that meet full bluray spec coming out in the next couple of months. If you are not interested in internet connectivity, then there are several available now that function perfectly. Waiting is your perogotive, but you cannot accuse somebody else of holding on to old technology if you do the very same thing yourself. I made the jump, got both formats, and am enjoying movies on both of my players.


You "follow" that path whether or not you think so.

You hold on to that thought if it makes you feel better. You like lies better than the truth anyway.


EVERY conference room at my old job had panasonic front projectors with seven"
guns, eventually they were replaced by DLP at a fraction of the size and a lot more performance, those pannys werent far off from what YOU have.

You really do not know anything about CRT projectors. The best 7" guns can do 1280x1024 lines of information, the BEST. Panasonic is not on that best list, as a matter of fact its not even on Curt Palmer's list of upgradeable or refurbishable projectors which means its of only average to poor quality. The best 7" can only do 800 lumens of light, and would not meet SMPTE light standards on any screen larger than 80". A Sony G-90(and my RPTV) can do 2000x2500 lines of accurate information, The Sony can meet SMPTE light specs with a 1080p signal on a 300" screen. My RPTV can do easily do the same over its meager 65" screen with more than enough light to burn your eyes out. You cannot fake knowledge with me pixeldummy, I know you are lying before that lying mouth opens. Anyone that has every OWNED a quality CRT projector knows that 7" guns are not going to be anything close to the performance of a 9" high end CRT.


And my company had about a dozen of them.
YOU always follow the "masses", unless you are fabricating your own parts

If that is your criteria, then I am not following the masses. The tubes in my G-90 and my RPTV were fabricated, and came to me brand new. The HDMI connection to my G-90 was fabricated from new parts, and I know this because the G-90 did not come with HDMI connections. I got one of Sony last few G-90 before they quite making them in 2003.


I dont give a rats ass about what the "mastering houses " in hollywood,
why should I?
I use my gear for entertainment, they use theirs for work.

You watch movies don't you dummy? And if they use them to master 1080p bluray disc, then apparently CRT's are capable of 1080p images with enough light to be seen. HD CRT are single gun monitors, and yes, they are viewed in darkened rooms just like you are supposed to view HD images.


And I can bet that if CRT is being used its in the budget for replacement, as soon as the old stuff wears out.

Its not in my studio budget to replace them. They are the best thing out there for mastering images, and if they were not, they wouldn't be there. And since they have a very long life, its going to give the flat panels plenty of time to play performance catchup.


I bought B&W speakers not because they are preferred by studio engineers,
but because they are scary good for the price.

The B&W speakers preferred by studio engineers are the 801D's and the Nautilus models. They are far out of your budget cheapskate pixy, so no more lying to make a point liar. If you complain about the price of a $10k projector, you sure ain't going for a set of speakers that set you back $5-10,000 per pair. Get real!


BTW all of the departments , including endoscophy, at the hospital where I work, have dumped all of their CRTS, NOTHING BUT HIGH RES LCD PANELS are used now.
They are betting peoples lives on this tech.
But if its not good enough for you...


Hospitals are not require to meet any level of SMPTE standards. So any parimeter associated with SMPTE is not a priority for a hospital. There are no requirements for contrast levels, accurate greyscale, accurate HD color gamut, response time(they look at static images) or motion blur(they look at static images). So just because your hospital you live at...I mean work at goes flat panel, that does not mean that is the best visual device there is for moving images, or movie images. Apples and cake pixelsnot.


Those "mastering houses " are like any other business, you dont throw away a capital investment.
CRT is obsolete, that means that theres better out there, doesnt mean it still cant be used.
But I CAN GUARENTEE YA, it will be gone in a few years:1:

The studio I work for get rid of equipment as new better performing equipment comes to market. If there is no better display technology out there, they will not make the change. The studio I work for is known for quality work, and if flat panels were better viewing devices, we would have switch them out already. They are not, so we keep our CRT's. Who knows what will be there in a few years, but flat panels are not what we have yet. And if flat panel performance has not advance to the point where it exceeds the professional HD CRT, then they will not be in our studio in a few years. That's the only gurantee that can be made.

You need an english refresher course. Nothing can be obsolete unless it is competely out of use, out of demand, and out of sight entirely. VHS players are obosolete. Consumer Super Beta players are obsolete, high end CRT based projection systems are not quite obsolete until people like me have abandon them.

[Duds]

Yeah, and Pix gets his ass kicked in these forums like Fridge does on the ice!!!


Todd played his junior years with my local team the Kelowna Rockets. Didn't really care for him then either.

can you spell...GOON

[Duds]

This entire time I has no idea Pix owned a hunk of sh*t Vizio. man, what a clown.

[pixelthis]

This entire time I has no idea Pix owned a hunk of sh*t Vizio. man, what a clown.


You oughta know about clowns, since you come from a circus family.
And you might want to wait for my response before you say I "got my ass beat"
since its obvious you dont know a frikin thing about the subject at hand, otherwise you'd keep your 11 year old mouth shut:1:

[pixelthis]

You tell me? Maybe because you are stuck with a cheap 37" vizio that can barely do 720p properly.

I am not "stuck", its what I prefer




You cannot speak for everybody. Some folks think for themselves. Now you may follow the masses for the simple reason that you cannot.

I KEEP FORGETING THAT YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND
a valid obsevation.
Doesnt matter how much you "think for yourself" (and theres not that much thinkin goin on there ace) you are limited by parts turned out by a tech based on mass production




I hate to bring this bad new to you stupid, but flat panels started off as a high end product. Revox was the first to exibit one at CES, and Revox was not a mass market brand. The first flat panel was out of the price range of mass market, but as manufacturing cost went down, the technology moved into the mainstream. Almost all electronics in the past started off in the high end and worked its way down.


some TECH STARTS OFF "HIGHEND", some doesnt, what does that have to do with teh price of eggs? Was a model T "high end?
A AM radio?.
The front projection you obsess about started out with the Muntz front projector, hardly "high end"




Not necessarily. Arcam produced excellent CD and DVD players. Much of what they did in terms of design, quality of parts, and R&D will never be seen in the mass market. Its too costly to meet mass market pricing. Runco introduce constant height 2:35:1 with their special processing. You can find this on other high end projection systems, but you will never find it in mass market projectors that cost less than $5k because it is too expensive to implement at that price point. Wadia, Krell, California Audio Labs all have some of the best CD players out there. But you will not find the kinds of processors and parts in these players in mass market players, they would be too expensive. The mass market is full of performance compromises, and it has to be that way to meet mass market price points. The high end is driven by performance, not price, so compromises are greatly reduced.

The high end is driven by performance, its also driven by the desire to sell
overengineered junk to those who dont understand that a .0001 percent increase in performance isn't worth an extra 100,000$.
AND all of those "high end " companies use standard, sometimes even pedestrian parts.
Sony CD drives are a favorite of "high" end CD players, for example



The high end was never meant to be large. This is another case of your coors beer mentality trying to grasp Dom perrion concepts. The high end market is performance driven, the mass market price driven. By logic the mass market will always be larger than the high end market. In the last 10 years, the mass market has grown, and the high end has shrunk profoundly as consumer look to get their components alot cheaper than they used to. When I bought my first CD player, it was over a grand. When I bought my first DVD player it was over a grand. Now you have folks crying over the price of a $400 bluray player. Once again to illustrate my point. There were CRT based high end projectors that could do an accurate 1080p back in 1997. Today the mass market is dominated by 720p displays, and displays that can barely do 1080p.


Sometimes the performance of "high end" is worse than mass market,
like with tube amps and turntables.
AND crt video displays



I thought being a low budget dumpster diver was going to keep you busy a while. But it looks like you can sift through trash and still be here to give some fleas. Its pretty clear that you did not make it past the third grade.
Obsolete \Ob"so*lete\, a. [L. obsoletus, p. p. of obsolescere. See Obsolescent.]

1. No longer in use; gone into disuse; disused; neglected; as, an obsolete word; an obsolete statute; -- applied chiefly to words, writings, or observances.

Your english is apparently as challenged as your knowledge of electronics. If I own, and thousand of others own and use something, it cannot be obsolete. If anyone is working to improve something, it is not neglected. If Curt Palmer is restoring and selling hundreds of high end projectors a year, then they are not no longer in use. I would try moving on to the fourth grade. It might improve your understanding of the english language.

It doesnt matter if you "own" it or not, ITS OBSOLETE.
VCR'S are obsolete, they are still being used.
laserdisc is "obsolete", still being used.
CRT is obsolete, still being used, mostly by ninnies such as yourself.
Just because someting is obsolete doesnt mean it cant be used.
It just means that theres BETTER out there.
Me go past the third grade?
Maybe you could get your GED and some technical training, they taught a monkey to understand a few words, so theres hope for you





Yes, but Sony, Electrohome, Ampro, Vidikitron, and Runco managed to create CRT's that exceed 1200 lumens(Sony and Electrohome 1300) and can still do an accurate 1080p and meet SMPTE specifications on a 130" screen. Its called 9" CRT's, which are capable of getting more light on the screen than a single gun CRT, even at higher resolutions.


WHAT "single gun" CRT?.
9" CRTS are nice and STILL too dim, much like you're counciousness.
AND all crt tubes are "single gun", so what?


Well that Cessna must have made it to the moon, because three gun CRT's are better performers in all areas than a single gun CRT. The best single gun CRT can do is 480i, with the exception of the HD CRT displays which cost $40 grand, and can do 1080p. Secondly, Joe Kane, you know the dude you like to quote alot(wrongly I might add) says that movies should be viewed in a dark room with a single bias light for smaller displays. That does not require eye searing levels of brightness, and if you have ever seen a properly calibrated display(and you have probably not based on this continued brightness arguement) you cannot view it in anything place but a darkened room, I do not care if the display is a LCD, LYCOS, DLP or plasma. So this whole CRT cannot do as much light as digital projectors is a red herring of an arguement at best.

the argument is whether or not you understand ANYTHING.
And its not a "bias" light its a backlight
I watch a lot of my movies and video in a dark room, but unl;ike you I can watch
games, shows, etc is a well lighted room also.
You are pretty much limited to a cave, probably by yourself


Somehow somebody invented a three 9" CRT based projector that can do 1080p accurately, and meet SMPTE standards for light output on a 130" screen. The last testing on DLP television found that only one could accurately produce a 1080p image, even if it had more peak light than a CRT. So this comment rings as hollow as the space between your ears.

DLP can produce 1080p quite well, and ithe picture is VISIBLE




I certainly don't live in the world you just describe. That your world, you know, the "good enough" crowd. Not my people. And keeping your set in the torch mode kills bulb life, and bulbs are not cheap.

You certainly seem like someone waiting for his spaceship.
With enough funds I will buy the absolute best I can get, you are limited by funds also.
You live in the same world as everyone else, even tho your massive ego wont allow you to
admit it.
You can have a high end system engineered to the 9's, but the cost will be astronomical,
which is probably why you dont have a life.
AND you're still getting that tiny brain of yours around teh fact that you wasted thousands on a bunch of outmoded crap THAT IS OBSOLETE.
And will be in the junkyard as soon as you run out of scavenged parts




Man you are a thick headed fool. Black level is not the only advantage of CRT. Contrast levels, the ability to accurately display the HD color gamut, the ability to properly track the greyscale over the sets operating range, instantaneous response, and no blur are CRT's advantages. Once again, you do not watch movies in a lit room unless you don't care about image quality. You cannot get the contast correct. But you don't care because performance is not your issue, price is.


The displays out today have no "blur", that is a red herring by snobs like you trying to justify you're rediculous expenditures on obsolete crap.
Those "advantages" you talk about are only in the realm of sopisticated test equipment.
If you want to sit around and test your gear all day fine, I'd rather watch mine.
And funny how I am typing this using a 37in LCD screen and the letters certainly appear
"black".
And if you care about "image q" you dont watch movies in a "lit" room.
but if you care about family and friends you do, and you make small compromises, which are less with the glarefree screen of an LCD




When YOU say something is quite good, it probably crappy. Your vizio has a real world contrast ratio of about 300:1. I have seen those cheap a$$ sets in Costco. Black is grey, no matter how you slice it. When you say the picture is quite good, it probably looks like $hit becuase the price was right, even if the performance was in the toilet. Your ceiling is my floor, there is no doubt about that. I wouldn't put a vizio in my bathroom. But that is just me.


The "real world" Contrast of my Vizio is subjective, as there is no set standard.
A 1,000 to 1 is what they say, whatever it is its fine.
You turn down the backlight in a darkened room and the picture is amazing.
And you can turn it up in a lit room for guests.
You dont have that option with the weak picture put out by your CRT


You are in denial pixelstupid. Everyone knows that neither plasma, DLP, nor LCD can do black. Its dark grey. And if you cannot do black well, then the entire greyscale is off kilter, which effects how the color gamut is preceived by the eyes. These things do not work in isolation, they work in combination. If one is off, it effects all of the other parimeters as well. You will find that out when you purchase AVIA or Videoessentials and try and calibrate the thing. If blacker than black looks like grey on the pluge signal, then your greyscale tracking is completely off all the way to white.

They cant do absolute black, the way a crt can, but they can get close, and their advantages far outweigh the small disadvantage of a slightly worse black level, which
is all you talk about because its all you got.
DLP has aperture's that turn down the light, increasing black level, direct view LCD has an adjustable backlight, which helps a great geal, and at an 8ms response time
"blur" is not noticable, certainly not in the 120 hz models.
Like you your info is out of date




Strange thing to say coming from you. I moved on to bluray, you are still doing DVD. I moved on to projection, you are still using a cheap 37" flat panel television. If there is anyone hanging on to anything, its you. Call me when OLED is larger than 11" and is cheaper than $2700 for that size. Sony is still at the prototype stage at 27". I am going to get quite a few years of perfect 1080p bliss, accurate greyscale, accurate HD color gamut, excellent contrast ratio, and the ability to do blacks before it gets to a reasonable price point.


I hope so because you certainly paid a premium to sit in a dark room and watch a dim picture.
I will get a bluray when they finally resolve the format, which will be awhile



Anyone that doesn't love themselves has some serious issues.

NOT to the point that you wish you could marry yourself, which seems to be the case for you



You really think I am stupid. By the time DVD players were $50, there was very few players even over $300 bucks. Once again lying just to make a point. You got into DVD three years after it entered the market, because all of the first generation models from every manufacturer were over $1000. The next year the average price was around $600. Cheapskates dumpster dive and settle for cheap flat panel TV's


I dont think you are, I know you are.
When DVD audio came out I bought a panny dvdaudio/video player, high end.
PAID SIX HUNDRED FOR A DISPLAY MODEL.
Had progressive scan, gold plated plugs, upsampling for audio, etc.
I will get the model number when I can, a friend still has it.
Another example of your extreme self centeredness, that you think I would care enough about what YOU think to lie about something.
AND I am not the "dumpster diver" YOU ARE.
YOU'LL HAVE TO BE, because thats where you'll have to go to find your precious "crts"




You are both a cheapskate AND a fool. Everyone here knows that, you are the only one who doesn't.

You are a fool that doesnt know the value of anything
and every shyster with a gimmick that sees you coming KNOWS THAT
You haven't even bought one yet, let alone a half a dozen.




When everything is finalized. It has been for two years idiot. Oh and that price thing again(oh I am not cheap). The PS3 is a full profile player that does everything the format is spec for. You can find one for less than $400 dollars these days, or does it have to get to $50 to get your attention? Face it cheepie, your a cheepy.

YOUR joking right?. THERE IS A THREAD ON THIS FORUM ABOUT THE LATEST
firmware upgrade for PS3, SO THEY HAVENT EVEN FINALIZED THAT
Face it nimrod, you're quite clueless



Becoming tough to stretch that social security check huh? Well a $500 receiver is probably more full featured today than yours. Maybe if you ate dog food for a year you could get a new one.

My receiver cost 1200 bucks and can still hold its own where it counts.
And keep blowing money on obsolete junk, you will be seeing the days when ALPO is a luxery




Yeah, well it was useless when you bought it. Component video switching in receivers is not a transparent process. The video bandwidth rolls off prematurely, and receiver from 4 years ago could not even reproduce the entire bandwidth of the DVD format without rolling off the high end. Anyone relying on that as a switching devices cannot have quality in their minds. Funny, I though only two video formats have been new in four years. DVD was not new four years ago, it was new eleven years ago. The only new video formats we have seen since DVD is HD DVD and Bluray. What is the third?

We havent seen four formats but the connectors for them.
SVHS, COMPONENT, DVI, HDMI 1.1 (A VERSION OF DVI) AND HDMI1.3
We have gone through four different connectors since I bought my receiver.
And there have been FOUR formats, HD DVD, bLU RAY, DIVIX , and dvd.
If you include SVCD thats five



And you accuse me of holding on to old stuff. LOL. Get a PS3, its a fully featured player that fully meets the bluray spec. They'll be four more standalones that meet full bluray spec coming out in the next couple of months. If you are not interested in internet connectivity, then there are several available now that function perfectly. Waiting is your perogotive, but you cannot accuse somebody else of holding on to old technology if you do the very same thing yourself. I made the jump, got both formats, and am enjoying movies on both of my players.


AND wasted several hundred bucks on a HDDVD player.
When a blu gets to three hundred bucks I will consider one, right now I am thinking about an audio only system.
AND I dont "accuse" you of holding onto "old" stuff, you ARE holding onto old stuff.
You accuse me of being a cheapskate , well, you are the cheapskate abd quite clueless
also.
What happened, but this stuff about a week before the newer stuff came out because
you are clueless about the real world? YOU CERTAINLY DONT LIVE IN IT


You hold on to that thought if it makes you feel better. You like lies better than the truth anyway.

call THE TRUTH a lie if it makes your fragil ego feel better



You really do not know anything about CRT projectors. The best 7" guns can do 1280x1024 lines of information, the BEST. Panasonic is not on that best list, as a matter of fact its not even on Curt Palmer's list of upgradeable or refurbishable projectors which means its of only average to poor quality. The best 7" can only do 800 lumens of light, and would not meet SMPTE light standards on any screen larger than 80". A Sony G-90(and my RPTV) can do 2000x2500 lines of accurate information, The Sony can meet SMPTE light specs with a 1080p signal on a 300" screen. My RPTV can do easily do the same over its meager 65" screen with more than enough light to burn your eyes out. You cannot fake knowledge with me pixeldummy, I know you are lying before that lying mouth opens. Anyone that has every OWNED a quality CRT projector knows that 7" guns are not going to be anything close to the performance of a 9" high end CRT.


Nine inch "guns" were a slight improvement over 7" guns
You can keep blathering on about specs all day, its just an example of being able to do something and the actual need of wasting time doing it


If that is your criteria, then I am not following the masses. The tubes in my G-90 and my RPTV were fabricated, and came to me brand new. The HDMI connection to my G-90 was fabricated from new parts, and I know this because the G-90 did not come with HDMI connections. I got one of Sony last few G-90 before they quite making them in 2003.

AND the fact that Sony quit making them FIVE years ago doesnt tell you anything, genius?.
No matter how much you and your boyfriend curt palmer "upgrade" these dinos they will still be DINOS.
With five year old electronics, etc






You watch movies don't you dummy? And if they use them to master 1080p bluray disc, then apparently CRT's are capable of 1080p images with enough light to be seen. HD CRT are single gun monitors, and yes, they are viewed in darkened rooms just like you are supposed to view HD images.


NOT really, with the right kind of modern display you can watch HD in a lit room quite well.
The doctors I know look at XRAY , CTC, and MRI images in fully lit rooms on largescreen high def datadrade LCD, and most would embarass a HDTV
OF COURSE YOU WOULDNT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT,
since its AFTER 1990


Its not in my studio budget to replace them. They are the best thing out there for mastering images, and if they were not, they wouldn't be there. And since they have a very long life, its going to give the flat panels plenty of time to play performance catchup.

AS soon as they wear out ( in 4 to 10 years ) they will be replaced
BY something other than CRT



The B&W speakers preferred by studio engineers are the 801D's and the Nautilus models. They are far out of your budget cheapskate pixy, so no more lying to make a point liar. If you complain about the price of a $10k projector, you sure ain't going for a set of speakers that set you back $5-10,000 per pair. Get real!

My 600 series suits me fine, and has a lot of the tech of those speakers.
And I wont put out "ten grand" for a projector because I am not into those.
WITH YOU'RE skewed sense of values you'dpay ten grand for a crack ho.
And marry her, probably




Hospitals are not require to meet any level of SMPTE standards. So any parimeter associated with SMPTE is not a priority for a hospital. There are no requirements for contrast levels, accurate greyscale, accurate HD color gamut, response time(they look at static images) or motion blur(they look at static images). So just because your hospital you live at...I mean work at goes flat panel, that does not mean that is the best visual device there is for moving images, or movie images. Apples and cake pixelsnot.

Its just peoples lives that depend on how well these display devices work ,
unlike your movie watching, which is way more important, right?
Oh wait, you're too stupid to understand sarcasm, forget that last bit



The studio I work for get rid of equipment as new better performing equipment comes to market. If there is no better display technology out there, they will not make the change. The studio I work for is known for quality work, and if flat panels were better viewing devices, we would have switch them out already. They are not, so we keep our CRT's. Who knows what will be there in a few years, but flat panels are not what we have yet. And if flat panel performance has not advance to the point where it exceeds the professional HD CRT, then they will not be in our studio in a few years. That's the only gurantee that can be made.

WHEN ITS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE it will be replaced.
The stuff is obsolete but it works.
If you dont absolutely wear stuff out before replacing it you dont stay in business



You need an english refresher course. Nothing can be obsolete unless it is competely out of use, out of demand, and out of sight entirely. VHS players are obosolete. Consumer Super Beta players are obsolete, high end CRT based projection systems are not quite obsolete until people like me have abandon them.

Something is obsolete when theres a better way of doing something, doesnt mean its not still being used.
the horse industry is quite large, and horses are obsolete compared to cars.
SO WHY ARE HORSES STILL BEING USED?
Let me make a prediction for ya ace, in three or four years you will be OUT of CRT.
Completely.
EITHER YOU WILL BE EMBARASSED to have it in your house or you wont be able to find parts anymore.
You talk about "specs", when you're talking about cobbled together and refurbished JUNK.
The only "spec" concerning you is that SPECK of a brain of yours:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

.

I am not "stuck", its what I prefer

Okay, your prefer to be stuck.



I KEEP FORGETING THAT YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND
a valid obsevation.
Doesnt matter how much you "think for yourself" (and theres not that much thinkin goin on there ace) you are limited by parts turned out by a tech based on mass production

Man, you should not talk about anyone not having the ability to think, there has not been anything firing in your head since I got back to this board. As long as the limitation hasn't stopped me from getting my parts, you have no argument.



some TECH STARTS OFF "HIGHEND", some doesnt, what does that have to do with teh price of eggs? Was a model T "high end?
A AM radio?.
The front projection you obsess about started out with the Muntz front projector, hardly "high end"

You started off as a egg from a turtle, and you evolved into an egghead. Actually front projection initially started from Runco's offerings, Muntz projection system used cheap parts because the old fool like to skimp on the important things, just like yourself. Besides it looked nothing like high end projection system I have.



The high end is driven by performance, its also driven by the desire to sell
overengineered junk to those who dont understand that a .0001 percent increase in performance isn't worth an extra 100,000$.

Some idiots like yourself who have never dabbled in the with high end projection system do not have even a clue what a good high end projector cost today. I know of no high end projector that cost anywhere near $100,000. You need to stuff these abstract number back in your a$$ where you got them from.


AND all of those "high end " companies use standard, sometimes even pedestrian parts.
Sony CD drives are a favorite of "high" end CD players, for example

A drive is only one aspect of a CD player. It is what you do with the DAC and analog section that distinguish the average from the best. You really like majoring in minors don't ya old guy?


Sometimes the performance of "high end" is worse than mass market,
like with tube amps and turntables.
AND crt video displays

You think if you just keep repeating that any digital projector can beat a high end CRT projector it makes it true. How can you make this determination if you have ZERO experience with high end projectors? You have ZERO experience with projector in general whether digital or analog, so your words ring as hollow as your head.



It doesnt matter if you "own" it or not, ITS OBSOLETE.
VCR'S are obsolete, they are still being used.
laserdisc is "obsolete", still being used.
CRT is obsolete, still being used, mostly by ninnies such as yourself.
Just because someting is obsolete doesnt mean it cant be used.
It just means that theres BETTER out there.
Me go past the third grade?
Maybe you could get your GED and some technical training, they taught a monkey to understand a few words, so theres hope for you

Well I guess a hick from hickville will never really have a decent understanding of the difference between the words obsolete, and not mass produced anymore. There is a difference you know, but I can understand that it might be a little difficult to understand the difference. Nobody is trying to improve the VCR, somebody is taking high end CRT to the next level. Just because you cannot afford, understand, or even know this does not make it true. If it makes you feel better keep trying to think the way you do, one day spark will actually fire something in that brainless head of yours and you may have some epiphany.


WHAT "single gun" CRT?.
9" CRTS are nice and STILL too dim, much like you're counciousness.
AND all crt tubes are "single gun", so what?

If they are so 9" CRT are so dim, then why do they meet SMPTE standards with 1080p test signals on screens as large as 130"?. Are you so dense that you cannot recognize a 40" and under television that uses a single gun to fire at the screen, and a three gun CRT projector that uses a red, green and blue colored CRT to fire at a projection screen? This is a new low for you. Lower as your rediculous argument that is takes more power for a tweeter than for a woofer.


the argument is whether or not you understand ANYTHING.
And its not a "bias" light its a backlight

Bias lights and backlights are the same thing stupid.


I watch a lot of my movies and video in a dark room, but unl;ike you I can watch
games, shows, etc is a well lighted room also.
You are pretty much limited to a cave, probably by yourself

There is a difference between critical viewing and wanting to watch something so you can see all of the details in the film, and watching game shows. If I want to watch a game show, I have a choice of four other devices I could watch them on, or I can watch them in my hometheater in the dark. Having a light on is neither necessary or adviseable for critical viewing, whether you are using a digital or analog projector. Besides you use a cheap flat panel, not a high end CRT. You are comparing cake and ice cream fool.



DLP can produce 1080p quite well, and ithe picture is VISIBLE

I see you have not been keeping track of current events have you. Secrets of Hometheater tested every 1080p DLP device on the market. Only two could do 1080p pixel for pixel, but those suffered from the "rainbow effect" of the color wheels. And those two deinterlacing was not up to snuff, so watching 1080i programming is compromised. So they were truely only good for watching bluray movies, and not much else with any accuracy.



You certainly seem like someone waiting for his spaceship.
With enough funds I will buy the absolute best I can get, you are limited by funds also.
You live in the same world as everyone else, even tho your massive ego wont allow you to
admit it.

I see you also cannot make the distinction between living in the same world with others, and making the same choices as others. Even if you had the funds, you wouldn't know what the best is. You have to know what constitutes good performance in order to purchase it. You have no clue.



You can have a high end system engineered to the 9's, but the cost will be astronomical,
which is probably why you dont have a life.

You don't know what my life is like do you? You are just spewing out words so your stupid a$$ won't look bad. Facts old fat boy, try them sometimes, its pretty enlighting, and God knows you need some light upstairs. The cost in not even close to astronomical, not even close. You should not talk about what you do not know about. It just puts a bunch of flashing lights around your ignorance meter.


AND you're still getting that tiny brain of yours around teh fact that you wasted thousands on a bunch of outmoded crap THAT IS OBSOLETE.
And will be in the junkyard as soon as you run out of scavenged parts

My CRT's in both my projector in my RPTV where brand new, not scavenged. There are three companies that still make CRT tubes, everything else is made and designed by Curt Palmer himself. As long as I have a chassis, I will still have the ability to continue to refurbish and upgrade. Since I actually calibrate my display devices, and use them properly I will be able to get 15+ years of life on what I have right now. See how long your bulb in your little cheap vizio lasts being pushed in the torch mode trying to keep up with high ambient light levels. Just because they can be watch in bright light, does not necessarily make it good for the bulbs life.



The displays out today have no "blur", that is a red herring by snobs like you trying to justify you're rediculous expenditures on obsolete crap.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/the-trouble-with-lcd-tvs-motion-blur-and-the-120hz-solution-290237.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV_blur

Pixel, either you are a straight out liar, or you are stupid as hell. Motion blur has been apart of LCD displays problems since they came to market.


Those "advantages" you talk about are only in the realm of sopisticated test equipment.
If you want to sit around and test your gear all day fine, I'd rather watch mine.

What you discover with test equipment plays out in everyday performace. If a device cannot display full 1080p based on test equipment, it will not be able to do with program material either. If cannot do blacks on the pluge pattern, they will not do blacks with movies.


And funny how I am typing this using a 37in LCD screen and the letters certainly appear
"black".


but if you care about family and friends you do, and you make small compromises, which are less with the glarefree screen of an LCD

Man, you are beyond stupid. How do you know they are true black with nothing to compare it to? You have to use the pluge pattern idiot. Dark grey can look black if there is nothing darker next to it. My family watches movies in the dark because they know that is the proper way to view movies. You don't teach compromises, you teach the correct way. Besides viewing movies the correct way doesn't interested you, the fact that you can watch your cheap television in bright light is what interests you.



The "real world" Contrast of my Vizio is subjective, as there is no set standard.
A 1,000 to 1 is what they say, whatever it is its fine.
You turn down the backlight in a darkened room and the picture is amazing.
And you can turn it up in a lit room for guests.
You dont have that option with the weak picture put out by your CRT

As I have said repeatedly, performance is not your issue. You are willing to make compromises left and right. 1000:1 is a $hitty contrast ratio no matter how you slice it. You will never see black at that contrast ratio, especially from a panel who's only claim to fame is high brightness. Getting good contrast ratio is not subjective, its necessary. That is why manufacturers are trying all kinds of band aids like backlights, and auto irises to help acheive it. I have no desire to watch my projection in a room compromised by light, its not the proper way to view movies anyway. Your new name should be pixelcompromise. You are just one compromise after another, and it is very telling you follow no standards whatsoever. No wonder you can say the stupid things you do.


They cant do absolute black, the way a crt can, but they can get close, and their advantages far outweigh the small disadvantage of a slightly worse black level, which
is all you talk about because its all you got.

Then it is obvious reading isn't your forte either. I have said repeatedly that digital projector cannot accurately do the greyscale, the HD color gamut, and they suffer from motion blur, and reduced resolution with moving images. Read it all pixela$$, not portions.


DLP has aperture's that turn down the light, increasing black level, direct view LCD has an adjustable backlight, which helps a great geal, and at an 8ms response time
"blur" is not noticable, certainly not in the 120 hz models.
Like you your info is out of date

DLP aperture work on a dynamic basis, so it is subject to lags that cause light pumping. The backlight is a band aid, CRT's don't need them. Doubling the frame rate to 120hz reduces the light output of the panel, the very parimeter you mentioned as an advantage of digital projection. Joe Kane did a great demonstration at the Panasonic digital cinema lab in Hollywood about a month ago, and he tested the response times of 10 different panels and found the best consumer panel barely had a 18ms response time when measured properly as opposed to how manufacturers measure them. Everyone who saw this demostration done saw motion blur in full effect. Only a person purposely trying to ignore the blur could miss it. This is the very basis of why my studio is not going to go flat panel in our mastering facilities until this improves. Only a gullible idiot would take a manufacturers measurement as word, and its funny, you do.




I hope so because you certainly paid a premium to sit in a dark room and watch a dim picture.
I will get a bluray when they finally resolve the format, which will be awhile.

You do not know what I paid. And all issues referring to bluray specs have been finished for months. Don't even attempt to use that as an excuse, you are just too cheap and sorry and cannot afford a player, just admit it.



NOT to the point that you wish you could marry yourself, which seems to be the case for you

If I married myself, which is not possible, I did far better than your wife.


I dont think you are, I know you are.

You sould like a old man entering into his second childhood. I suppose you stuck your tongue at me as you type this.


When DVD audio came out I bought a panny dvdaudio/video player, high end.

If you think Panasonic is high end, you are dirt poor, and you don't know high end. If you said Denon, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Panasonic at best is just a hair above mass market. Arcam, McComick, Goldmund are considered high end, not Panasonic. LOL.


PAID SIX HUNDRED FOR A DISPLAY MODEL.
Had progressive scan, gold plated plugs, upsampling for audio, etc.
I will get the model number when I can, a friend still has it.

Six hundred dollars??? LOLOLOLOL. Oooh you broke the bank with that one huh?


Another example of your extreme self centeredness, that you think I would care enough about what YOU think to lie about something.
AND I am not the "dumpster diver" YOU ARE.
YOU'LL HAVE TO BE, because thats where you'll have to go to find your precious "crts"

You do care, or you wouldn't lie liar! You admitted you dumper dive right on this forum
Pixel:
You gotta strike before they run out completely but have a few left.
Even better, wait until they throw the last few in the dumpster,
AND GO "DUMPSTER DIVING" Post #26 LG continues to support HD DVD thread. $1 for the search function.

I have never heard anyone else here ever say anything like this except a true self professed dumpster diver. LOL, if the future you should be very careful of the words you use, they may be a permanent label for ya. LOL


You are a fool that doesnt know the value of anything
and every shyster with a gimmick that sees you coming KNOWS THAT
You haven't even bought one yet, let alone a half a dozen.

I didn't waste my money on a cheap 37" vizio, you did. Thats not a value, its nothing more than a cheap poor performing panel. And I wouldn't buy one, not even for my closet.


YOUR joking right?. THERE IS A THREAD ON THIS FORUM ABOUT THE LATEST
firmware upgrade for PS3, SO THEY HAVENT EVEN FINALIZED THAT
Face it nimrod, you're quite clueless

Waaaaahahahahaha, Dts MA Lossless is a option in the bluray specs. Its one thing to add something that is already supported by the Bluray specifications, and not having a finished spec period. I am sorry you are too retarded to know the difference. They added an option, and have added options every since the format launched. The last manditory specifications were completed the beginning of last year fool. The update also included and updates to the playstation store. None of these are manditory or have anything to do with the specifications. You talk too much and know too little. This is the best you can offer this board, and many of us have learned to except it.



My receiver cost 1200 bucks and can still hold its own where it counts.
And keep blowing money on obsolete junk, you will be seeing the days when ALPO is a luxery

Its a dinosaur just like my CRT projection. LOLOL. Except my CRT projection was upgraded to include HDMI, and your receiver cannot be. LOL. If you say it can hold its own, it probably is as sorry as you are.


We havent seen four formats but the connectors for them.

Make up your mind idiot, you are confusing yourself!


SVHS, COMPONENT, DVI, HDMI 1.1 (A VERSION OF DVI) AND HDMI1.3
We have gone through four different connectors since I bought my receiver.
And there have been FOUR formats, HD DVD, bLU RAY, DIVIX , and dvd.
If you include SVCD thats five

How you can confuse connections with formats is beyond me, but obviously not beyond you. DIVX and DVD are 11years old not five. SVCD is not popular or even used in this country. SVHS is not five years old, its more like 9 years old(intro in 1999). That vast empty space between your ears you call a brain is failing your pixelnutless.



AND wasted several hundred bucks on a HDDVD player.

Did I? Well I have about 175 HD DVD's, and about 2700 DVD's that can be played in it, so I do not think anyone would consider that a waste.


When a blu gets to three hundred bucks I will consider one, right now I am thinking about an audio only system.
AND I dont "accuse" you of holding onto "old" stuff, you ARE holding onto old stuff.
You accuse me of being a cheapskate , well, you are the cheapskate abd quite clueless
also.

Bluray players are already $300 bucks, why haven't you got one yet cheepy? My projector is about as old as your receiver. Except my projector has HDMI connections that are 1.3a compliant and fairly new guts, does your receiver?

Your receiver was a "major" sacrifice for you at $1200. One of my speakers cost more than that. So just who is the cheepskate?



What happened, but this stuff about a week before the newer stuff came out because
you are clueless about the real world? YOU CERTAINLY DONT LIVE IN IT

I don't live in your world. That world is the exclusive domain of the cheap and stupid. I wouldn't fit in that world. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a dictator in that world. I mean there would be a half a brain cell in the world, and that would probably belong to the trash collectors.


call THE TRUTH a lie if it makes your fragil ego feel better

The truth is the truth, a lie is a lie. You tell lies, and that can never be called the truth.


Nine inch "guns" were a slight improvement over 7" guns
You can keep blathering on about specs all day, its just an example of being able to do something and the actual need of wasting time doing it

This is a totally ignorant statement. The best a 7" gun can do is 720p and 700 lumens and 1280x1024 lines. The best 9" can do 1440p(double the 7" guns) 1300 lumens(almost double), and 2000x2500 lines( almost double the 7"). To the initiated this is a significant upgrade in performance, to the ignorant dumpster diver its just slight. Specifications tell how well something does in reality, you cannot blow off reality just because the facts don't suit you.


AND the fact that Sony quit making them FIVE years ago doesnt tell you anything, genius?.

Yeah, its tells me they quit making them. It certainly wasn't for performance considerations or today digital projectors would have started at where they left off at 1080p, accurate HD color gamut and greyscale tracking, no motion blur, and no lagging response time. Instead the projectors were a step backwards for convience beginng at 720p, no blacks, poor response times, motion blur, and a visible pixel structure. Oh, but they could burn your eyes out with brightness which contributed to the fact that contrast ratio were so low back then. Sometimes convience trumps performance, especially in the mass market where you have been living for years very comfortably I might add.


No matter how much you and your boyfriend curt palmer "upgrade" these dinos they will still be DINOS.
With five year old electronics, etc

No old hick who is a cheapskate and stupid as hell can insult me. You are akin to lint in a navel to me. A tissue from a freshly wiped a$$. Call them dino's if you please, doesn't bother me, I think you are a dino as well. The electronics are not quite five years old yet, the chassis is, but not the guts old guy. Remember your old dinosuar reciever has no HDMI connections, my dino CRT's do


NOT really, with the right kind of modern display you can watch HD in a lit room quite well.

Joe Kane says this is not how you watch HD movies. You wash out the shadow detail, and you reduce the life of the bulb. It seems clear you do not calibrate your cheap flat panel, so when you say everything looks great, I have my doubts. I properly calibrated display device cannot be viewed in a lit room. I do not care what technology is in it. It is impossible because you have to lower both the brightness and contrast far from factory levels when it is properly calibrated. You keep posting old dude, the more you do, the more retarded you sound.


The doctors I know look at XRAY , CTC, and MRI images in fully lit rooms on largescreen high def datadrade LCD, and most would embarass a HDTV
OF COURSE YOU WOULDNT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THAT,
since its AFTER 1990

Tons of ignorance in such a short sentence. There is no such thing as datagrade LCD, that is a distinction that belongs only to three gun projection. Secondly if there was a datagrade LCD it would be in a performance catagory BELOW graghic grade projectors. To illustrate the difference between data grade and graghic grade is as follows;

Barco Data grade 800 projector 8" tubes 1024x768 lines of resolution
Barco Graghic grade 800 projector 8" tubes 1600x1200 lines of resolution.

What do you consider a large screen HD LCD monitor? A 24 inch? I have never seen a hospital with any LCD screens larger than that. Moving images are quite different than static images, so you are not telling me anything with this bit of information. Static images do not suffer from motion blur on LCD's, but moving images do. I also know that professional LCD monitors designed for film applications would have to have a different spec than monitors used for HD static images in hospitals. Dog food and hamburgers old man.


AS soon as they wear out ( in 4 to 10 years ) they will be replaced
BY something other than CRT

Maybe by then LCD and Plasma(you know your proclaimed dead technology) would have caught up in performance to 9" CRT's. Besides, I have about 10-15 years life on what I have right now. If a digital projector comes out that can do an accurate 2000x2500 lines, a accurate HD color gamut, can do an accurate greyscale, with no motion blur, and a response time of less than 4ms, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Right now the only LCD based projector that can do more resolution than 2000x2500 lines, does have an accurate HD color gamut, but still falls short with the greyscale, but does have a fairly decent measured 10ms response time costs $60,000, far more than my G-90 cost me. FAR MORE! I am not going to worry about what happens before my stuff wears out, it may outlive me. Nobody knows what is going to happen tomorrow, they said we'd have flying cars by now.


My 600 series suits me fine, and has a lot of the tech of those speakers.

Kevlar mid/bass drivers and aluminum tweeters have been around for years, and don't rise to the point of the words "alot of tech" which are essentially meaningless. And what suits you would probably suit my dog Darnell as well. Pixelout ceiling is Sir T's floor. Always has been that way, always will be that way.


And I wont put out "ten grand" for a projector because I am not into those.
WITH YOU'RE skewed sense of values you'dpay ten grand for a crack ho.
And marry her, probably

Yeah, your a cheapskate. $10K is where performance STARTS with digital projection. There at least you get a fairly accurate 1080p image, with decent blacks(not CRT blacks though) less blur and better motion adaptation algorythms. If the projector cost more than $300 bucks it would probably be out of your price range.

I would never marry your sister pixel. I like women with teeth, a wasteline, a brain, and good looks.


Its just peoples lives that depend on how well these display devices work ,
unlike your movie watching, which is way more important, right?
Oh wait, you're too stupid to understand sarcasm, forget that last bit

They may work well for still images, but we do not look at still images in hometheater. Hospital do not have any standards for display devices, in hometheater we do. Hospitals do not use AVIA or Video essentials to calibrate their display devices, in hometheater we do. Hospital do not require calibration for their display devices, if you want a decent picture you NEED calibration. Hospitals do not worry about 3:2 pulldown flags, deinterlacing algorythms, scalers, or any other hometheater related parimeters. So to see your bring this into the arugement shows that you haven't a clue about how to get high quality images in the home. The first clue was your choice of the cheapest flat panel on the market that just so happens to be the best at losing resolution with moving images.

No, I do not understand childish sarcasm, I am an adult.


WHEN ITS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE it will be replaced.
The stuff is obsolete but it works.
If you dont absolutely wear stuff out before replacing it you dont stay in business

And if its performance has not been exceeded, we will keep it and repair it. We are not going to change from CRT's to LCD until that happens. We do something called testing and maintainence bi yearly, so we will know when stuff wears out pretty quickly.


Something is obsolete when theres a better way of doing something, doesnt mean its not still being used.

Then the word obsolete does not apply. And so far there has not been a better way to present HD moving images accurately without the drawbacks of LCD technology except with professional HD CRT's and high end projection CRT's. Obsolete denotes not in use anymore, and you really cannot say that with ANY CRT. There are hundreds of millions of them all over the world, something that CANNOT be said about flat panels.


the horse industry is quite large, and horses are obsolete compared to cars.
SO WHY ARE HORSES STILL BEING USED?

Because there is more than one reason to use a horse other than for transportation only. They're fun to ride, you make emotional connection with them, they're more interesting to look at in a parade, and you do not use cars for horse racing.


Let me make a prediction for ya ace, in three or four years you will be OUT of CRT.
Completely EITHER YOU WILL BE EMBARASSED to have it in your house or you wont be able to find parts anymore.

Since you know about as much about high end CRT's as I know about cheap flat panels, I will take this with a log of bull$hit. Uniformed and uneducated predictions are about as useful as a bag of marbles are for destroying old buildings. Curt Palmer has been in business for 20 years, and he is still going strong doing more business this year than last. I personally won't need any part for 3 to 4 years, because the parts that are in both of my display devices(with the exception of the cabinets) are not even 4 years old.


You talk about "specs", when you're talking about cobbled together and refurbished JUNK.
The only "spec" concerning you is that SPECK of a brain of yours:1:

I consider JUNK a 37" vizio flat panel that barely does 720p accurately, falls to 300p when images are in motion, has a 1000:1 contrast ratio, blacks that are dark grey, and about a 20ms response time.

And a person with a speck of a brain is in far better shape than your are with no brain.

Your spinnin facts, lying and showing your ignorance is getting as old as you are fossilizedpixle.

[pixelthis]

Okay, your prefer to be stuck.

And you prefer to be a ninny, we're even



Man, you should not talk about anyone not having the ability to think, there has not been anything firing in your head since I got back to this board. As long as the limitation hasn't stopped me from getting my parts, you have no argument.

The only "parts" you need are for a brain, this limitation will catch up to you




You started off as a egg from a turtle, and you evolved into an egghead. Actually front projection initially started from Runco's offerings, Muntz projection system used cheap parts because the old fool like to skimp on the important things, just like yourself. Besides it looked nothing like high end projection system I have.

You're "high end" projection system is like all other crts, uses tech for a purpose for which it wasnt intended




Some idiots like yourself who have never dabbled in the with high end projection system do not have even a clue what a good high end projector cost today. I know of no high end projector that cost anywhere near $100,000. You need to stuff these abstract number back in your a$$ where you got them from.

You're right, because you cant buy one anymore.




A drive is only one aspect of a CD player. It is what you do with the DAC and analog section that distinguish the average from the best. You really like majoring in minors don't ya old guy?

And all of that is made from mass market parts



You think if you just keep repeating that any digital projector can beat a high end CRT projector it makes it true. How can you make this determination if you have ZERO experience with high end projectors? You have ZERO experience with projector in general whether digital or analog, so your words ring as hollow as your head.


There is an optihome DLP projector on sale today, 2600 bucks with 2500 lumens,
about a thousand more than your "high end" cobbled together piece of junk.
THE ONLY "HIGH END" at your house is you ass on your shoulders




Well I guess a hick from hickville will never really have a decent understanding of the difference between the words obsolete, and not mass produced anymore. There is a difference you know, but I can understand that it might be a little difficult to understand the difference. Nobody is trying to improve the VCR, somebody is taking high end CRT to the next level. Just because you cannot afford, understand, or even know this does not make it true. If it makes you feel better keep trying to think the way you do, one day spark will actually fire something in that brainless head of yours and you may have some epiphany.


There is no "next level" for CRT to go to. Its limited by phosper size and other factors.
And you will always need two to even come close to decent light output, especially with HD, BECAUSE TEH HIGHER THE RES THE LESS LIGHT OUTPUT you realize.
The "measurments" you talk about are in torch mode, not real world conditions.
THE ONLY ONE EVEN LOOKING AT CRT is a few deluded hobbyists like yourself and your boyfriend curt


If they are so 9" CRT are so dim, then why do they meet SMPTE standards with 1080p test signals on screens as large as 130"?. Are you so dense that you cannot recognize a 40" and under television that uses a single gun to fire at the screen, and a three gun CRT projector that uses a red, green and blue colored CRT to fire at a projection screen? This is a new low for you. Lower as your rediculous argument that is takes more power for a tweeter than for a woofer.


Okay I AM TIRED OF YOUR MISUSE of terminology.
THE "GUN" IS THE ELECTRON GUN IN THE TUBE.
If by "gun" you mean tube then all rptv and fptv are three "guns", one for each primary color. Single tube devices are direct view, which CRT was intended for.
THEY were NEVER intended for projection use, they were adapted for that use because there wasnt anything else, and they are ill suited for it.
THEY PRODUCE A LOT OF HEAT, HAVE A SHORT LIFESPAN, are subject to burn in and other crt problems




Bias lights and backlights are the same thing stupid.

Like I WAS SAYING, STUPID



There is a difference between critical viewing and wanting to watch something so you can see all of the details in the film, and watching game shows. If I want to watch a game show, I have a choice of four other devices I could watch them on, or I can watch them in my hometheater in the dark. Having a light on is neither necessary or adviseable for critical viewing, whether you are using a digital or analog projector. Besides you use a cheap flat panel, not a high end CRT. You are comparing cake and ice cream fool.

I CAN HAVE ICE CREAM ON MY CAKE, "fool"




I see you have not been keeping track of current events have you. Secrets of Hometheater tested every 1080p DLP device on the market. Only two could do 1080p pixel for pixel, but those suffered from the "rainbow effect" of the color wheels. And those two deinterlacing was not up to snuff, so watching 1080i programming is compromised. So they were truely only good for watching bluray movies, and not much else with any accuracy.


THE picture was still indistingushable to the naked eye with CRT, except CRT was
so dim
And three chip models have no "rainbow effect



I see you also cannot make the distinction between living in the same world with others, and making the same choices as others. Even if you had the funds, you wouldn't know what the best is. You have to know what constitutes good performance in order to purchase it. You have no clue.


I HAVE A CLUE, and unlike you dont choose to waste thousands on a diminshing
return. .00001% INCREASE IN PERFORMANCE isnt worth 10,000$.




You don't know what my life is like do you? You are just spewing out words so your stupid a$$ won't look bad. Facts old fat boy, try them sometimes, its pretty enlighting, and God knows you need some light upstairs. The cost in not even close to astronomical, not even close. You should not talk about what you do not know about. It just puts a bunch of flashing lights around your ignorance meter.

I AM IGNORANT ABOUT YOUR LIFE?
How can I be "ignorant " about something that is nonexistent?
I am ignorant of your pitiful exsistence btw, thank god for small favors



My CRT's in both my projector in my RPTV where brand new, not scavenged. There are three companies that still make CRT tubes, everything else is made and designed by Curt Palmer himself. As long as I have a chassis, I will still have the ability to continue to refurbish and upgrade. Since I actually calibrate my display devices, and use them properly I will be able to get 15+ years of life on what I have right now. See how long your bulb in your little cheap vizio lasts being pushed in the torch mode trying to keep up with high ambient light levels. Just because they can be watch in bright light, does not necessarily make it good for the bulbs life.


The flurescent in my Vizio has a twenty year lifespan, and thats in "torch" mode, something I rarely use.
Stick another bulb in and it will go another twenty


http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/the-trouble-with-lcd-tvs-motion-blur-and-the-120hz-solution-290237.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDTV_blur


Pixel, either you are a straight out liar, or you are stupid as hell. Motion blur has been apart of LCD displays problems since they came to market.


Not anymore


What you discover with test equipment plays out in everyday performace. If a device cannot display full 1080p based on test equipment, it will not be able to do with program material either. If cannot do blacks on the pluge pattern, they will not do blacks with movies.

And most of the time you cant notice the difference





Man, you are beyond stupid. How do you know they are true black with nothing to compare it to? You have to use the pluge pattern idiot. Dark grey can look black if there is nothing darker next to it. My family watches movies in the dark because they know that is the proper way to view movies. You don't teach compromises, you teach the correct way. Besides viewing movies the correct way doesn't interested you, the fact that you can watch your cheap television in bright light is what interests you.


I dont live my life based on a pludge pattern, thats for sure.
At the end of the day its a question of priorities , I am saving for retirement and have other expenses, my tv IS A COMPROMISE , as is yours.
But the picture is quite good if not reference standard.
And I can see it too, BTW




As I have said repeatedly, performance is not your issue. You are willing to make compromises left and right. 1000:1 is a $hitty contrast ratio no matter how you slice it. You will never see black at that contrast ratio, especially from a panel who's only claim to fame is high brightness. Getting good contrast ratio is not subjective, its necessary. That is why manufacturers are trying all kinds of band aids like backlights, and auto irises to help acheive it. I have no desire to watch my projection in a room compromised by light, its not the proper way to view movies anyway. Your new name should be pixelcompromise. You are just one compromise after another, and it is very telling you follow no standards whatsoever. No wonder you can say the stupid things you do.


ALL OF THIS IS MOOT, OLED is here, and will ramp up faster than LCD, and has a perfect black level.
LACK OF A BACKLIGHT means the cost of these will come down faster than LCD did.
And then you will have to find some other excuse to hang onto your security blanket



Then it is obvious reading isn't your forte either. I have said repeatedly that digital projector cannot accurately do the greyscale, the HD color gamut, and they suffer from motion blur, and reduced resolution with moving images. Read it all pixela$$, not portions.

YOU HAVE SAID IT and you can say it a thousand times, baloney is baaloney no matter how you slice it.
I have had my set for a year and a half and havent noticed ANY motion "blur", at 8ms
the human eye cant detect any.
And the backlight problem (unlit pixels still being hit with light) is a problem with any of the new displays, but has been greatly reduced.
And the market has determined that the tiny advantage that CRT has isnt worth its HUGH disadvantages



DLP aperture work on a dynamic basis, so it is subject to lags that cause light pumping. The backlight is a band aid, CRT's don't need them. Doubling the frame rate to 120hz reduces the light output of the panel, the very parimeter you mentioned as an advantage of digital projection. Joe Kane did a great demonstration at the Panasonic digital cinema lab in Hollywood about a month ago, and he tested the response times of 10 different panels and found the best consumer panel barely had a 18ms response time when measured properly as opposed to how manufacturers measure them. Everyone who saw this demostration done saw motion blur in full effect. Only a person purposely trying to ignore the blur could miss it. This is the very basis of why my studio is not going to go flat panel in our mastering facilities until this improves. Only a gullible idiot would take a manufacturers measurement as word, and its funny, you do.


And I am sure not taking YOUR word





You do not know what I paid. And all issues referring to bluray specs have been finished for months. Don't even attempt to use that as an excuse, you are just too cheap and sorry and cannot afford a player, just admit it.

NO, I have been a pioneer all of my life (hence the arows in my back) so I am going to wait and let others discover the bugs, I have been more interested in audio lately anyway.
600 BUCKS FOR A HI-FI VCR before broadcast stereo(about 1200 in todays dollars_
700 bucks for a SVHS (1400 in todays dollars)
800 for my first VCR (2400 in todays dollars)
450 for my first dvd player (about 800 in todays dollars)
Your buddies at sony are just going to have to wait, HDTV VOD and broadcast will do just fine for the moment




If I married myself, which is not possible, I did far better than your wife.

If you married yourself be sure to get a prenup



You sould like a old man entering into his second childhood. I suppose you stuck your tongue at me as you type this.

You seem to be an expert on "childish"


If you think Panasonic is high end, you are dirt poor, and you don't know high end. If you said Denon, I would give you the benefit of the doubt. Panasonic at best is just a hair above mass market. Arcam, McComick, Goldmund are considered high end, not Panasonic. LOL.

This is true, panasonic is just considered one of the best brands on the planet, and their parent company , matshuhita, sipplies parts to all of the "high end" companies you mentioned



Six hundred dollars??? LOLOLOLOL. Oooh you broke the bank with that one huh?
This was a display model, a new one cost eight hundred.
In a world where "upscale" dvd players cost a little over a hundred bucks



You do care, or you wouldn't lie liar! You admitted you dumper dive right on this forum Pixel:
You gotta strike before they run out completely but have a few left.
Even better, wait until they throw the last few in the dumpster,
AND GO "DUMPSTER DIVING" Post #26 LG continues to support HD DVD thread. $1 for the search function.
I have never heard anyone else here ever say anything like this except a true self professed dumpster diver. LOL, if the future you should be very careful of the words you use, they may be a permanent label for ya. LOL

Your lack of understanding of slang borders on autistic.
Dumpster diving means looking for bargains.
I did have a co-worker who did some "dumpster diving", once he fished out a pioneer sx-90
that was in great shape, sounded quite good



I didn't waste my money on a cheap 37" vizio, you did. Thats not a value, its nothing more than a cheap poor performing panel. And I wouldn't buy one, not even for my closet.

SO YOU'RE IN THE "CLOSET".
Something you wanna tell people?

And my vizio is outstanding and fits my needs quite well



Waaaaahahahahaha, Dts MA Lossless is a option in the bluray specs. Its one thing to add something that is already supported by the Bluray specifications, and not having a finished spec period. I am sorry you are too retarded to know the difference. They added an option, and have added options every since the format launched. The last manditory specifications were completed the beginning of last year fool. The update also included and updates to the playstation store. None of these are manditory or have anything to do with the specifications. You talk too much and know too little. This is the best you can offer this board, and many of us have learned to except it.

The last "mandatory option" until they decide another one is "mandatory".
Been around this block more than once




Its a dinosaur just like my CRT projection. LOLOL. Except my CRT projection was upgraded to include HDMI, and your receiver cannot be. LOL. If you say it can hold its own, it probably is as sorry as you are.

My receiver could be, but unlike you I DONT SEE THE NEED TO WASTE GOOD MONEY ON SOMETHING with very little return



Make up your mind idiot, you are confusing yourself!

TALKING TO YOU COULD CONFUSE ANYBODY



How you can confuse connections with formats is beyond me, but obviously not beyond you. DIVX and DVD are 11years old not five. SVCD is not popular or even used in this country. SVHS is not five years old, its more like 9 years old(intro in 1999). That vast empty space between your ears you call a brain is failing your pixelnutless.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT FORMATS and CONNECTIONS.
And SVHS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR SEVERAL DECADES.
And I have used SVCD on several occasions, and it was quite popular worldwide,
broaden your horizions




Did I? Well I have about 175 HD DVD's, and about 2700 DVD's that can be played in it, so I do not think anyone would consider that a waste.

Wait until it breaks and you cant replace it and have to trashcan 175 movies.
MAYBE YOUR BOYFRIEND CURT CAN FIX OR REFURBISH IT FOR YA


Bluray players are already $300 bucks, why haven't you got one yet cheepy? My projector is about as old as your receiver. Except my projector has HDMI connections that are 1.3a compliant and fairly new guts, does your receiver?

no, BUT IT DOES HAVE A 70MHZ video bus, and while I could use it for component
switching I prefer hdmi, so I use it mainly for audio, it is quite current on that



Your receiver was a "major" sacrifice for you at $1200. One of my speakers cost more than that. So just who is the cheepskate?

Get used to the taste of ALPO, there is gonna be plenty in your future




I don't live in your world. That world is the exclusive domain of the cheap and stupid. I wouldn't fit in that world. I wouldn't be surprised if you were a dictator in that world. I mean there would be a half a brain cell in the world, and that would probably belong to the trash collectors.

The only "world" you belong in has attendants in white with plenty of thorazine



The truth is the truth, a lie is a lie. You tell lies, and that can never be called the truth.


Actually, no



This is a totally ignorant statement. The best a 7" gun can do is 720p and 700 lumens and 1280x1024 lines. The best 9" can do 1440p(double the 7" guns) 1300 lumens(almost double), and 2000x2500 lines( almost double the 7"). To the initiated this is a significant upgrade in performance, to the ignorant dumpster diver its just slight. Specifications tell how well something does in reality, you cannot blow off reality just because the facts don't suit you.

One is a stanley steamer and the other a model T, whats you're point?
NEITHER is current tech.
NOW this 2500 lumens optima for 2500 bucks....



Yeah, its tells me they quit making them. It certainly wasn't for performance considerations or today digital projectors would have started at where they left off at 1080p, accurate HD color gamut and greyscale tracking, no motion blur, and no lagging response time. Instead the projectors were a step backwards for convience beginng at 720p, no blacks, poor response times, motion blur, and a visible pixel structure. Oh, but they could burn your eyes out with brightness which contributed to the fact that contrast ratio were so low back then. Sometimes convience trumps performance, especially in the mass market where you have been living for years very comfortably I might add.


You still don't get it, do you?
PEOPLE ARENT WILLING TO SACRIFICE MONEY AND CONVEINENCE FOR
small, incremental improvements in performance.
A nine inch CRT front projector is not only a hugh investment, its hugh itself, half the size of a couch, and you'd need TWO to get decent brightness.
And most wouldnt be able to eyeball a diff between it and a one ft square DLP projector,
and THATS why they quit making them



No old hick who is a cheapskate and stupid as hell can insult me. You are akin to lint in a navel to me. A tissue from a freshly wiped a$$. Call them dino's if you please, doesn't bother me, I think you are a dino as well. The electronics are not quite five years old yet, the chassis is, but not the guts old guy. Remember your old dinosuar reciever has no HDMI connections, my dino CRT's do


FIVE year old electronics might as well be five hundred years


Joe Kane says this is not how you watch HD movies. You wash out the shadow detail, and you reduce the life of the bulb. It seems clear you do not calibrate your cheap flat panel, so when you say everything looks great, I have my doubts. I properly calibrated display device cannot be viewed in a lit room. I do not care what technology is in it. It is impossible because you have to lower both the brightness and contrast far from factory levels when it is properly calibrated. You keep posting old dude, the more you do, the more retarded you sound.

YOU CALIBRATE IT TO WATCH IT IN A DIM ROOM, AND TURN UP THE BRIGHTNESS FOR A WELL LIT ROOM, why do you have a problem with that?
YOU DONT NEED TO WATCH EVERYTHING IN REFERENCE QUALITY



Tons of ignorance in such a short sentence. There is no such thing as datagrade LCD, that is a distinction that belongs only to three gun projection. Secondly if there was a datagrade LCD it would be in a performance catagory BELOW graghic grade projectors. To illustrate the difference between data grade and graghic grade is as follows;

WELL, we'll just pull out a few beds from the E.D and put a few projectors in there.
to quote bugs bunny, what a maroon!
And there are datagrade LCD panels, DELL, SAMSUNG, ETC, will be surprized to find out there arent




What do you consider a large screen HD LCD monitor? A 24 inch? I have never seen a hospital with any LCD screens larger than that. Moving images are quite different than static images, so you are not telling me anything with this bit of information. Static images do not suffer from motion blur on LCD's, but moving images do. I also know that professional LCD monitors designed for film applications would have to have a different spec than monitors used for HD static images in hospitals. Dog food and hamburgers old man.

you certainly know about both, so how do you like your dog food?



Maybe by then LCD and Plasma(you know your proclaimed dead technology) would have caught up in performance to 9" CRT's. Besides, I have about 10-15 years life on what I have right now. If a digital projector comes out that can do an accurate 2000x2500 lines, a accurate HD color gamut, can do an accurate greyscale, with no motion blur, and a response time of less than 4ms, I would buy it in a heartbeat. Right now the only LCD based projector that can do more resolution than 2000x2500 lines, does have an accurate HD color gamut, but still falls short with the greyscale, but does have a fairly decent measured 10ms response time costs $60,000, far more than my G-90 cost me. FAR MORE! I am not going to worry about what happens before my stuff wears out, it may outlive me. Nobody knows what is going to happen tomorrow, they said we'd have flying cars by now.

five foot OLED will be on the walls in 2 to 5 years.
With .17" thickness and perfect specs.
Even you will have to get rid of all that obsolete junk by then "old man"





Kevlar mid/bass drivers and aluminum tweeters have been around for years, and don't rise to the point of the words "alot of tech" which are essentially meaningless. And what suits you would probably suit my dog Darnell as well. Pixelout ceiling is Sir T's floor. Always has been that way, always will be that way.

Words from an arrogant ignoramus, always has been and always will be.
And someones floor will be your ceiling, because you'll wind up in the basement


Yeah, your a cheapskate. $10K is where performance STARTS with digital projection. There at least you get a fairly accurate 1080p image, with decent blacks(not CRT blacks though) less blur and better motion adaptation algorythms. If the projector cost more than $300 bucks it would probably be out of your price range.

I saw this nice one today for 2500 bucks...



I would never marry your sister pixel. I like women with teeth, a wasteline, a brain, and good looks.

You're cousin has teeth? GOOD FOR YOU



They may work well for still images, but we do not look at still images in hometheater. Hospital do not have any standards for display devices, in hometheater we do. Hospitals do not use AVIA or Video essentials to calibrate their display devices, in hometheater we do. Hospital do not require calibration for their display devices, if you want a decent picture you NEED calibration. Hospitals do not worry about 3:2 pulldown flags, deinterlacing algorythms, scalers, or any other hometheater related parimeters. So to see your bring this into the arugement shows that you haven't a clue about how to get high quality images in the home. The first clue was your choice of the cheapest flat panel on the market that just so happens to be the best at losing resolution with moving images.

Pulldown flags are obsolete with 24 pixel for pixel displays
And my flat panel is one of teh best rated, and fits my need best



No, I do not understand childish sarcasm, I am an adult.

Who is too stupid to understand childish sarcasm



And if its performance has not been exceeded, we will keep it and repair it. We are not going to change from CRT's to LCD until that happens. We do something called testing and maintainence bi yearly, so we will know when stuff wears out pretty quickly.

YOU WILL GET RID OF YOUR crtWHEN YOU CANT FIND PARTS ANYMORE, WHICH WILL BE SOONER THAN YOU THINK



Then the word obsolete does not apply. And so far there has not been a better way to present HD moving images accurately without the drawbacks of LCD technology except with professional HD CRT's and high end projection CRT's. Obsolete denotes not in use anymore, and you really cannot say that with ANY CRT. There are hundreds of millions of them all over the world, something that CANNOT be said about flat panels.

because they have been in use since the 1930's, and the number keeps going down as they are replaced by flat panel, which people are doing as rapidily as possible



Because there is more than one reason to use a horse other than for transportation only. They're fun to ride, you make emotional connection with them, they're more interesting to look at in a parade, and you do not use cars for horse racing.


And you dont use horses to get to work every day.
WAIT, you probably do, just another way to "stand out" in the crowd, eh?



Since you know about as much about high end CRT's as I know about cheap flat panels, I will take this with a log of bull$hit. Uniformed and uneducated predictions are about as useful as a bag of marbles are for destroying old buildings. Curt Palmer has been in business for 20 years, and he is still going strong doing more business this year than last. I personally won't need any part for 3 to 4 years, because the parts that are in both of my display devices(with the exception of the cabinets) are not even 4 years old.


Famous last words, the large amount of heat produced by three 9" crts will reduce the life of your parts to that of a fruitfly



I consider JUNK a 37" vizio flat panel that barely does 720p accurately, falls to 300p when images are in motion, has a 1000:1 contrast ratio, blacks that are dark grey, and about a 20ms response time.

So it MUST be a good one
I AM MAKING SOME progress, anyway, you finally admit that resolution drops for moving images, now if I could just get you to understand that that is for interlaced
images, not progressive ones.
Oh, well, small steps...:1:

[GMichael]

When are you two going to stop flirting with each other and get together for drinks?
Maybe a movie, and then out dancing?

[pixelthis]

When are you two going to stop flirting with each other and get together for drinks?
Maybe a movie, and then out dancing?


I just threw up in my mouth.
you know, not everybody has your "biamp" current ability

In any even I won so that is that :1:

[Duds]

Vizio sucks

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

This debate is spent. I know I am dealing with an idiot, and I just do not have anymore time to deal with a fifty year old man who behaves like a kid, knows less than a kid,and who makes claims about equipment he has never owned. Light output is just one perimeter, but this idiot thinks it everything, quotes Joe Kane if it fits his argument, and then dismisses Kane's other advice because it doesn't.

I wish we had ignore buttons, I would encourage everyone to use it

[GMichael]

I just threw up in my mouth.
you know, not everybody has your "biamp" current ability

In any even I won so that is that :1:

Won? What did you win? Some Listerine?

[GMichael]

This debate is spent. I know I am dealing with an idiot, and I just do not have anymore time to deal with a fifty year old man who behaves like a kid, knows less than a kid,and who makes claims about equipment he has never owned. Light output is just one perimeter, but this idiot thinks it everything, quotes Joe Kane if it fits his argument, and then dismisses Kane's other advice because it doesn't.

I wish we had ignore buttons, I would encourage everyone to use it

But, it's been such a fun read. No one else seems to be in the fighting spirit much anymore.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Shucks. I thought this was going to be the very first perpetual motion machine. I'm very disappointed with the outcome.

[pixelthis]

Shucks. I thought this was going to be the very first perpetual motion machine. I'm very disappointed with the outcome.


ISNT that what your girlfriends are always telling you?
(sorry, couldnt resist)
I have know these types since I got into this stuff, totally irrational and arguing
that a .00001 percent increase in ONE area is worth practically rebuilding an obsolete piece of gear, spending thousands in the process, and winding up with something that is totally compromised.
The same mentality that leads to 25,000 record players, and 5,000 monoblock tube amps putting out a sterling 5 watts at 5% distortion.
And you are a "compromiser" if you dont want to invest in an obsolete dinosaur that is finicky, requires constant tweaking, and is constantly down due to the never-ending search for parts.
I enjoy my set, and it will do until better comes along, but I am a realist, Sir talky is living in a fantasy world, his fragil ego desperately needs to beleive hes' something "special"
Well, nothing special about puttering around with old crap that is ready for the junkyard.
Like sir talky himself:1:

[pixelthis]

Vizio sucks


AH YES, a typical response from the slacker generation.
What is your I.Q, five?
I could say something about your momma but its too easy :1:

[Duds]

Even people with an IQ of 5 still know that Vizio sucks.


AH YES, a typical response from the slacker generation.
What is your I.Q, five?
I could say something about your momma but its too easy :1:

[bfalls]

STOP IT! STOP IT! Oh, the humanity. Another disaster for Pix. Newsreel at 11.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Shucks. I thought this was going to be the very first perpetual motion machine. I'm very disappointed with the outcome.

If I wasn't in Hawaii trying to enjoy myself I could have went on with tis for weeks. It just cracks me up how a person who has never purchased a piece of equipment higher than a mass market, can be the foremost expert on stuff that cost way beyond his means. He has no idea of CRT projector performance, price, how it stacks up against digital projectors, he has never even made any comparisons. But the old geriatric foo sure knows about all there is to know huh?

Anyone who makes the claim that anything under a thousand bucks is high end, is loco en la cabasa. They do not have a clue what high end is.

Anyone who makes an argument about projectors quality based on light output alone, does not know projectors.

Anyone who says that a contrast ratio of 1000:1 is fine, has never seen true blacks or white whites.

What I think is particularly hilarious is how he will misquote Joe Kane, take his comments out of context, and then ignore the other things he has stated because it does not suit his argument. That is signs of a piss poor debater, which is exactly what pissel( I mean pixeless) is.

Meh, I have no time to deal with stupid old know it all,seen it all farts. Especially ones that have not seen, or do not know $hit

[GMichael]

If I wasn't in Hawaii trying to enjoy myself I could have went on with tis for weeks. It just cracks me up how a person who has never purchased a piece of equipment higher than a mass market, can be the foremost expert on stuff that cost way beyond his means. He has no idea of CRT projector performance, price, how it stacks up against digital projectors, he has never even made any comparisons. But the old geriatric foo sure knows about all there is to know huh?

Anyone who makes the claim that anything under a thousand bucks is high end, is loco en la cabasa. They do not have a clue what high end is.

Anyone who makes an argument about projectors quality based on light output alone, does not know projectors.

Anyone who says that a contrast ratio of 1000:1 is fine, has never seen true blacks or white whites.

What I think is particularly hilarious is how he will misquote Joe Kane, take his comments out of context, and then ignore the other things he has stated because it does not suit his argument. That is signs of a piss poor debater, which is exactly what pissel( I mean pixeless) is.

Meh, I have no time to deal with stupid old know it all,seen it all farts. Especially ones that have not seen, or do not know $hit

How's the weather today? Or more importantly, how's the view? (And I sure don't mean of the mountains and beaches. Well, maybe part of the beaches.)

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

How's the weather today? Or more importantly, how's the view? (And I sure don't mean of the mountains and beaches. Well, maybe part of the beaches.)

When Aloha and ATA went out of business, the babes stayed home man. All we have here now is Pixeldummies peeps, you know, the geriatrics. On maui where i am, the island has been taken over by the metheads, another of pixies peeps. The recession is hitting Hawaii pretty hard.

All in all the food is excellent(having a personal chief in the condo is off the chain), and the drinks are kickin!

[GMichael]

Food's great, but....... no babes? Bummer!

[pixelthis]

When Aloha and ATA went out of business, the babes stayed home man. All we have here now is Pixeldummies peeps, you know, the geriatrics. On maui where i am, the island has been taken over by the metheads, another of pixies peeps. The recession is hitting Hawaii pretty hard.

All in all the food is excellent(having a personal chief in the condo is off the chain), and the drinks are kickin!


HOW OLD is "geriactic" to someone in JR high school, twenty?

Hope you're not having trouble ditching the parents so you can enjoy yourself :1:

[pixelthis]

If I wasn't in Hawaii trying to enjoy myself I could have went on with tis for weeks. It just cracks me up how a person who has never purchased a piece of equipment higher than a mass market, can be the foremost expert on stuff that cost way beyond his means. He has no idea of CRT projector performance, price, how it stacks up against digital projectors, he has never even made any comparisons. But the old geriatric foo sure knows about all there is to know huh?

Certainly more than you.
I have forgotten more than you will ever know about CRT, never had a front projector,
they were obsolete before I could scrape together the cash.
I dont waste my time on buggy whips, 8 track tape players, or VCR's EITHER






Anyone who makes the claim that anything under a thousand bucks is high end, is loco en la cabasa. They do not have a clue what high end is.

Its easy to get something under a thousand bucks that, while not "high end" is at least 95% of same.
The rest of price range is chasing the elusive 5% that is left.
I am happy with 95%, you can spend thousands on the other 5%




Anyone who makes an argument about projectors quality based on light output alone, does not know projectors.

Not just light output but lifespan, convienece, resolution, true picture q and other factors.
Not to mention they dont make front projectors any more with CRT so the issue is MOOT



Anyone who says that a contrast ratio of 1000:1 is fine, has never seen true blacks or white whites.


THERE IS NO SET "STANDARD" OF CONTRAST, BUT 1.000/1, WHILE THE BARE MINIUM IS ACCEPTABLE.




What I think is particularly hilarious is how he will misquote Joe Kane, take his comments out of context, and then ignore the other things he has stated because it does not suit his argument. That is signs of a piss poor debater, which is exactly what pissel( I mean pixeless) is.

WHAT A SHYSTER, you only started in with Joe Kane when I started quoting him.
As for being good at "debating" the only "bate" you know about is masterbate




Meh, I have no time to deal with stupid old know it all,seen it all farts. Especially ones that have not seen, or do not know $hit[/QUOTE]

Sorry but you are what you are, suicide is a sin so you'll have to live with yourself :1:

[pixelthis]

Even people with an IQ of 5 still know that Vizio sucks.


Which leaves you out.

HOWS that 20in emerson you have in the dorm at prep school doing ya? :1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Certainly more than you.
I have forgotten more than you will ever know about CRT, never had a front projector,
they were obsolete before I could scrape together the cash.
I dont waste my time on buggy whips, 8 track tape players, or VCR's EITHER

If you have never owned one, then how can you possibly comment on the picture quality? This means that all of your comments and comparisons are born out of complete ignorance, and lack of experience. Hardly credible in anyone's book. Your other comments are to justify your ignorance, and its usually better to not comment, than to put your ignorance out there.




Its easy to get something under a thousand bucks that, while not "high end" is at least 95% of same.
The rest of price range is chasing the elusive 5% that is left.
I am happy with 95%, you can spend thousands on the other 5%

If you have never purchased anything above $1000, then how do you know you get 95% of the performance of a above $1000 from a below $1000 product? This is nothing more than ignorant statements from an ignorant person. You don't know, so you just keep pulling these abstract numbers out of your a$$. You do this over and over, and its getting boring.



Not just light output but lifespan, convienece, resolution, true picture q and other factors.
Not to mention they dont make front projectors any more with CRT so the issue is MOOT

How do you know, you have never owned a front projection CRT, you haven't even owned a front projection digital projector. More ignorance, and no fact. There is no way you can say resolution or true picture quality, that only comes with experience with the product, not just some guesses. There is no LCD, DLP, or ILA based consumer projector that can do 2000x2500 lines of information, that is a fact. Only professional projectors that cost over $60,000-$100,000 poses that kind of resolution. Digital projectors look digital because they sample and hold, rather than creating a sliver of blackness between frames just like theater projectors do, and camera do as well. So they can never exibit "true" picture quality until they do what the source does, create lines of blacks between frames.



THERE IS NO SET "STANDARD" OF CONTRAST, BUT 1.000/1, WHILE THE BARE MINIUM IS ACCEPTABLE.

You are wrong again. Joe Kane(remember him, you like to quote him at your convience) says the minimum acceptable contrast ratio for any display device is at least 20,000:1. That would put it in the same ballpark as professional projectors and cameras. 1000:1 is perfectly acceptable to a person trying to justify his cheapness, and his compromise for a lesser product that does not meet even minimal standards. SMPTE also uses the same standards as Joe Kane, so to say there is no "standard" is just your ignorance, and just shows that quality is not what you are after, only light output is your standard.



WHAT A SHYSTER, you only started in with Joe Kane when I started quoting him.
As for being good at "debating" the only "bate" you know about is masterbate

You opened the door idiot, and I walked through. If you use Joe Kane for one thing, you have to use him for all things. What you cannot do is parse his information to suit your argument. That is what a true shyster is, a little lying cheat. You misquote him, twist his words, and quite frankly I do not think you do it purposely, but because you have no idea how to vet the information you read. When you make the claim you have forgotten more than I will ever know, make sure you have not forgotten the basics and the detail that supports the basics, which it appears you have.



Sorry but you are what you are, suicide is a sin so you'll have to live with yourself :1:

What a stupid statement from a stupid person

[Groundbeef]

My wife and I stayed on Maui for 3 days on our Honeymoon, at the "Maui Prince". Nice hotel, I don't know if its still around.

Took a Heli tour of the island, and saw the waterfalls, and such.

Some of our best scuba diving was there also. Can't wait to go back, but that would involve getting a job. Started looking in Nov, still looking...

Enjoy your trip. Don't ruin it by responding to pix.

[GMichael]

Enjoy your trip. Don't ruin it by responding to pix.

My guess is that he enjoys it.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I know I do! :yesnod:

[GMichael]

Tisk tisk tisk. Rich, I'd take your head out of that fence if I were you. I hear that some guys will,... well.... skip it.

Good luck.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'll have a response for you GM as soon as I figure out what you're trying to say. I too have trouble sometimes reading between the lines... :ciappa:

[O'Shag]

[QUOTE=pixelthis
Receivers serve most well because they dont know what they are missing, and the usually small size of a living room and the relative low vollumes used most of the time
help also.
for most a receiver is fine, but for sound with AUTHORITY you need real power.
A Chevy P.O.S will get you to the walmart, but to win NASCAR you need to kick it with
some real horsepower:1:[/QUOTE]

Very well said. The problem is that most folks tend to think their schtuff is just about as good as it gets. How wrong they are. The difference when feeding a speaker up to 1000watts of quality power as opposed to 200watts of receiver power is massive. Literally night and day. Its hard to tell people who have never experienced this. Power equals improvement in everything. Speed, control, soundstage, depth, sense of ease/ no compression, proper tone, instantaneous dynamic shifts and transients - all sounds like BS - until you hear it for yourself. The utter clarity that results means things sound a lot closer to the real thing. Of course the speaker is a major part of the equation too.

Don't think that because high-sensitivity speakers can get by on 3 watts, they don't sound great on 600watts. JBLs speakers are rated over 100db sensitivity, yet they suggest that several 600watt amps (triamped) are used for their top speakers - why? Because the result will be zero distortion, absolute signal integrity. Bob Carver long ago ran some tests, and figured out that to accurately reproduce the sound of a pin dropping without any distortion required well over 600 watts!

Another pet peave, I don't get people saying the B&W 800d nautilus series is a bad speaker or just average. I know that people who say this either haven't even heard it, or have been listening to the speaker being driven inadequatey or there is a problem somewhere. Granted it is a power hog, but given the right power, the Nautilus will, in most important performance parameters, outperform most speakers out there. Power is the key. That is why many of the best recording studios in the world use B&W - not because they look pretty, or because the B&W saleman wags his or her bum.

Its important to have a realistic view of the world, because otherwise one is stuck in a 'nirvana' of ignorance and that is usually not a good thing. Our hobby doesn't mean that we have to have the best, but to know what the best can sound like, and then to strive as best we can to get close to it.

Pix, much respect mate I do think you make a lot of sense on many of your posts - although you should go easy on JRyhmeammo as he was only trying to defend you. BoundGrief is fair game though - just kidding!:D

[pixelthis]

My wife and I stayed on Maui for 3 days on our Honeymoon, at the "Maui Prince". Nice hotel, I don't know if its still around.

Took a Heli tour of the island, and saw the waterfalls, and such.

Some of our best scuba diving was there also. Can't wait to go back, but that would involve getting a job. Started looking in Nov, still looking...

Enjoy your trip. Don't ruin it by responding to pix.


WHAT do you mean "respond to pix"

I am the one that is responding to him
THIS IDIOT ACTUALLY THINKS THAT IF YOU DONT HAVE SOMETHING
that isnt even manufactured anymore, (a sofa sized CRT front projector) then you are deficient in someway.
If he wants to waste his money on crap fine, just dont dis my taste because I dont choose to spend a fortune on something that has to be refurbished because they dont make it anymore.
Does my system have compromises? Sure,
SO DOES HIS.
Everybodies does, what he is implying is that his system is perfect, and hes actually stupid enough to think that there is such a thing.
He just has a different set of compromises, a bigger set of compromises than I do.
AS USUAL MILKSHAKE COW YOU HAVE IT BACKWARDS
Do you agree with him that in order to have a decent system that you have to take an old CRT front projector, put hdmi in it (which would entail a new video bus) new tubes scavenged from somewhere, basically rebuild the thing, from the ground up, that is what hes saying, that thats the "bare minimum for a decent system.
Whats actually happening is his massive ego has to be "special" in some way,
He has the "best" and everything everybody else has sucks.
The truth is that a five grand dlp or lcos front projector will do just as well and probably exceed his and throw in an extra 1,000 lumens to boot.
Not to mention that his system will always be compromised because the spare parts will be deficent, nothing will be to factory spec because there is no factory, the HDMI is a frabrication itself.
In other words he has no convientional "HT", he is an electronics hobbyist, his rig will require constant tinkering, and the average person wont even be able to operate it.
Its a toy, not a convientional HT, I thought this site was to talk about real
home theaters, stuff you could actually buy, his stuff belongs in the DIY section.
And he belongs someplace where the thorazine flows like tapwater :1:

[pixelthis]

Very well said. The problem is that most folks tend to think their schtuff is just about as good as it gets. How wrong they are. The difference when feeding a speaker up to 1000watts of quality power as opposed to 200watts of receiver power is massive. Literally night and day. Its hard to tell people who have never experienced this. Power equals improvement in everything. Speed, control, soundstage, depth, sense of ease/ no compression, proper tone, instantaneous dynamic shifts and transients - all sounds like BS - until you hear it for yourself. The utter clarity that results means things sound a lot closer to the real thing. Of course the speaker is a major part of the equation too.

Don't think that because high-sensitivity speakers can get by on 3 watts, they don't sound great on 600watts. JBLs speakers are rated over 100db sensitivity, yet they suggest that several 600watt amps (triamped) are used for their top speakers - why? Because the result will be zero distortion, absolute signal integrity. Bob Carver long ago ran some tests, and figured out that to accurately reproduce the sound of a pin dropping without any distortion required well over 600 watts!

Another pet peave, I don't get people saying the B&W 800d nautilus series is a bad speaker or just average. I know that people who say this either haven't even heard it, or have been listening to the speaker being driven inadequatey or there is a problem somewhere. Granted it is a power hog, but given the right power, the Nautilus will, in most important performance parameters, outperform most speakers out there. Power is the key. That is why many of the best recording studios in the world use B&W - not because they look pretty, or because the B&W saleman wags his or her bum.

Its important to have a realistic view of the world, because otherwise one is stuck in a 'nirvana' of ignorance and that is usually not a good thing. Our hobby doesn't mean that we have to have the best, but to know what the best can sound like, and then to strive as best we can to get close to it.

Pix, much respect mate I do think you make a lot of sense on many of your posts - although you should go easy on JRyhmeammo as he was only trying to defend you. BoundGrief is fair game though - just kidding!:D


glad someone gets what I am trying to say.
I strive to make my system the best I CAN, BUT saving for retirement and daily expenses
means that compromises will have to be made, this is the experience of most people.
My vizio is fine for my needs, I prefer to concentrate on the audio side anyway,
because of the law of diminishing returns I would have to spend an inordinate amout to get a substantial increase in performance.
And we are curently going through a wave of improvement the likes of which I have never seen in fourty years of messing with this stuff..
I WOULDNT SPEND FIVE OR TEN GRAND ON ANY kind of video display device, its likely to be obsolete before its served much time.
But amps are pretty much established, and that is probably my next purchase,
something with a damping factor higher than 40 .
Thanks for the kind words anyway:1:

[pixelthis]

If you have never owned one, then how can you possibly comment on the picture quality? This means that all of your comments and comparisons are born out of complete ignorance, and lack of experience. Hardly credible in anyone's book. Your other comments are to justify your ignorance, and its usually better to not comment, than to put your ignorance out there.

OH PLEASE, I spent three years learning about CRT tech as well as tv electronics,
and like to think I HAVE KEPT UP a little at least.
You know what people like about the new panels and projectors?
THE BRIGHTNESS.
This is very important to a lot of people, including me.
You're comments about black level being a shade of gray in lcd panels is disingenious
at best, blacks are a tad washed out when everythings turned up for room lighting, but
this is why they have controls to adjust these levels when you dont need that much illumination. Black level is quite good under low light conditions, with teh backlight down
The "perfect" black level people talk about in CRT displays comes at a high price.
Dimness, burn in , and awkward size and weight, and a short lifespan.
And I have had several devices cositing several thousand dollars BTY.
my first HDTV was a 47in RPTV, in spite of an almost obsessive dilligence in keeping static images off of the screen and the contrast down to 50, burn in still occured.
And you can only make a phosper dot so small, these "bleed" over from illuminated pixels
to unlit ones, smaller pixels wont last as long (less phosper) etc.
I know plenty about CRT, the 30,000 volts needed to drive one, their relative fragility,
How much fun it is turning the yoke when its on, etc.
That is why I dont have one, that is why MOST dont have one





If you have never purchased anything above $1000, then how do you know you get 95% of the performance of a above $1000 from a below $1000 product? This is nothing more than ignorant statements from an ignorant person. You don't know, so you just keep pulling these abstract numbers out of your a$$. You do this over and over, and its getting boring.

I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that your inability to understand abstracts borders on autistic.
No one ever knows when the law of diminshing returns kicks in, but it does
do so.
And yes I have bought several devices costing well over a grand, allow for inflation and most cost that much.
AND most were CRT based of course.
My simple set goes at least 90% of the way, and exceeds your stuff in some areas,
that these areas are in your words" unimportant" is convienent




How do you know, you have never owned a front projection CRT, you haven't even owned a front projection digital projector. More ignorance, and no fact. There is no way you can say resolution or true picture quality, that only comes with experience with the product, not just some guesses. There is no LCD, DLP, or ILA based consumer projector that can do 2000x2500 lines of information, that is a fact. Only professional projectors that cost over $60,000-$100,000 poses that kind of resolution. Digital projectors look digital because they sample and hold, rather than creating a sliver of blackness between frames just like theater projectors do, and camera do as well. So they can never exibit "true" picture quality until they do what the source does, create lines of blacks between frames.


WHAT a copout, I have never owned a Rousch Porsch either, but I can find the fuel in jection system, brakes, etc quite handily.
A front projector is just an adapted RPTV, uses three tubes in primary colors to produce a color picture, hardly rocket science.
The last real improvement was 9" tubes, then most saw the writing on the wall,
mainly that CRT, which were never intended to be projection devices could never compete with mercury bulbs, which were designed to put out decent light




You are wrong again. Joe Kane(remember him, you like to quote him at your convience) says the minimum acceptable contrast ratio for any display device is at least 20,000:1. That would put it in the same ballpark as professional projectors and cameras. 1000:1 is perfectly acceptable to a person trying to justify his cheapness, and his compromise for a lesser product that does not meet even minimal standards. SMPTE also uses the same standards as Joe Kane, so to say there is no "standard" is just your ignorance, and just shows that quality is not what you are after, only light output is your standard.

Good old joe, I BOUGHT MY SET A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, 1,000/'1 was considered quite good for an LCD, although a compromise.
Sets these days are capable of much more, but for serious watching I turn down the light on the set and contrast is improved a great deal.
As for 20,000 to one contrast there are some higher end sets now that can acheive at least 10,000



You opened the door idiot, and I walked through. If you use Joe Kane for one thing, you have to use him for all things. What you cannot do is parse his information to suit your argument. That is what a true shyster is, a little lying cheat. You misquote him, twist his words, and quite frankly I do not think you do it purposely, but because you have no idea how to vet the information you read. When you make the claim you have forgotten more than I will ever know, make sure you have not forgotten the basics and the detail that supports the basics, which it appears you have.

I quote joe kane from widescreen review, and what he says about resolution and picture q
contradicts almost everything you have to say so I WOULD BE CAREFULL QUOTING HIM



What a stupid statement from a stupid person

mY FAULT, THATS WHAT YOU GET TRYING TO TALK DOWN TO A NINNY WHO DOESNT EVEN UNDERSTAND the difference between a test bench and real world conditions.
like the riverboat pilot SAMUEL CLEMENS said, "their are lies, damn lies, and statistics".
the same could be said of test bench results.
YOU KNOW ENOUGH, YOU CAN GET TEST GEAR TO JUMP THROUGH ALL KINDS OF HOOPS.
The key question is real world performance, ease of use and availability.
I have always tried to emphazise affordable , reliable, well performing gear that will allow the average person to experience the joy of this hobby.
The stuff you have(or claim to have) has no relevance in the real world.
Produce gear with those specs that the average person can use and purchase in the real world and you might have something, right now you have an expensive toy :1:

[Duds]

you are an absolute jerkoff. every one of your posts in the past has been how your piece of sh*t vizio LCD was better than any plasma on the market, doesnt weight as much, can't kill someone if it tips over, doesn't have killer gases inside it, blah blah blah, and now you state that you are making compromises because you are saving for retirement, and your Vizio is fine for your needs? what an a-hole.


glad someone gets what I am trying to say.
I strive to make my system the best I CAN, BUT saving for retirement and daily expenses
means that compromises will have to be made, this is the experience of most people.
My vizio is fine for my needs, I prefer to concentrate on the audio side anyway,
because of the law of diminishing returns I would have to spend an inordinate amout to get a substantial increase in performance.
And we are curently going through a wave of improvement the likes of which I have never seen in fourty years of messing with this stuff..
I WOULDNT SPEND FIVE OR TEN GRAND ON ANY kind of video display device, its likely to be obsolete before its served much time.
But amps are pretty much established, and that is probably my next purchase,
something with a damping factor higher than 40 .
Thanks for the kind words anyway:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

OH PLEASE, I spent three years learning about CRT tech as well as tv electronics,
and like to think I HAVE KEPT UP a little at least.

You can really tell its just a little:rolleyes: Learning about it without hands on experience is useless. And when you were learning about it, CRT projection wasn't even around, so your experience and well as your education on this particular piece of equipment is NIL

Thinking is terrible for you. You thinking is like telling somebody else to drink poison.




You know what people like about the new panels and projectors?
THE BRIGHTNESS.
This is very important to a lot of people, including me.
You're comments about black level being a shade of gray in lcd panels is disingenious
at best, blacks are a tad washed out when everythings turned up for room lighting, but
this is why they have controls to adjust these levels when you dont need that much illumination. Black level is quite good under low light conditions, with teh backlight down

When a television is properly calibrated, its peak brightness level is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the projector or panel meets SMPTE standards of brightness on the screen when the calibration is done. So it really doesn't matter if the projector peak light output is 1300 lumens or 2500 lumens. Because you follow NO STANDARDS, you seem to enjoy posting compromise after unnecessary compromise which makes me understand you have not clue what a properly calibrated picture looks like. It is not something you can watch in a lit room. If you turn up the brightness to compensate for the light in the room, shadow detail is lost, and the blacks start turning grey. With LCD panel, even when the room is dark, it cannot acheive blacker than black which is crutial to acheiving proper greyscale, and getting the proper greyscale is crutial to every other parimeter one uses to acheive a good picture quality. The very idea that a LCD panel needs a bias light to acheive a decent contrast ratio shows that the technology at this point cannot compete with high end CRT's(does not matter if they don't make them anymore, you can still get them) which does not require any kind of band aid to acheive a contrast level that meets both SMPTE and Joe Kane's recommended level. And the reality is, even with the bias light, it still cannot meet the standards for contrast level. If we listen to your idiotic advice, picture quality would vary from set to set, and we once again would have a system that was NTSC, never twice the same color.

So this whole brightness thing(when you take accurate picture quality into consideration) is a red herring if I ever saw one. Its one thing to understand how something works. its another to understand how something should be set up to produce an accurate picture. You say you know the former, but I know for sure you do not know the latter.



The "perfect" black level people talk about in CRT displays comes at a high price.
Dimness, burn in , and awkward size and weight, and a short lifespan.

Once again more ignorance, and no fact. A properly calibrated CRT will never experience burn in. That is because the contrast level must be turned down quite a bit to acheive an accurate greyscale. Its the same for LCD, DLP, ILA and any other type of display device. Secondly, burn only occurs when the contrast ratio is set too high, and you display static images for a long time. If you are watching television programs and blurays(which have constantly moving images) and the contrast is properly set, how can this possible occur? Thirdly, a short CRT lifespan is a result of the contrast and brightness being up too high. When a CRT is properly calibrated, a CRT can last longer than any bulb in a panel. That is why you have CRT projection devices still around today some twenty years after its introduction. Yes they are large and awkard I will give you that. But anyone looking for real accurate images is not going to care one bit about that, just like a person who wants a VERY accurate extended range speaker will not care about the size of the cabinet in their listening rooms. What your low brow taste finds important, and what a person looking for a accurate picture quality finds important are polarly divergant.



And I have had several devices cositing several thousand dollars BTY.
my first HDTV was a 47in RPTV, in spite of an almost obsessive dilligence in keeping static images off of the screen and the contrast down to 50, burn in still occured.

Which means that that display device was not properly calibrated, and/or was cheap in the first place. I have had RPTV's and projectors in my hometheater since the early nineties. Not one of them had any signs of burn in after more than fifteen years of daily usage. The projector I had before the G-90 was used just about everyday for fifteen years, it had very minimal wear on the CRT's from reproducing widescreen images, but absolutely nothing that would degrade performance. It is obvious to me that your contrast setting of 50 is not enough:rolleyes:

Your experience does not equal everyones experience.


And you can only make a phosper dot so small, these "bleed" over from illuminated pixels
to unlit ones, smaller pixels wont last as long (less phosper) etc.
I know plenty about CRT, the 30,000 volts needed to drive one, their relative fragility,
How much fun it is turning the yoke when its on, etc.
That is why I dont have one, that is why MOST dont have one

Since I don't play basketball with my display devices, it fragility is irrelevant. Since it is not being moved all over the place, this is another weak stab at nothing in terms of making a point. LCD suffer from "backlight leakage" which is why their contrast levels are so low. You can stick a bias light to help out with black levels, but they cannot at this time compete with a CRT device of any catagory when it comes to black levels. Using larger guns on CRT's allows a much higher phosphor density which is why they have more resolution than smaller guns and direct views. Your argument is weak when you start talking about anything of better quality than a direct view television.

Your turning the yoke comment was stupid at best. Nobody turns the yoke when the television is on. Turning the yoke is not a everyday job, and I know of nobody who has had to do this as a everyday practice. A repairman yes, but not the consumer.

It is a fact there are far more CRT in service all over the world than flat panels. That is a undisputable fact, so this comment about nobody has them, is a bald face lie.



I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that your inability to understand abstracts borders on autistic.
No one ever knows when the law of diminshing returns kicks in, but it does
do so.

I would prefer not to use your standards to make that determination. They are too low.



And yes I have bought several devices costing well over a grand, allow for inflation and most cost that much.
AND most were CRT based of course.
My simple set goes at least 90% of the way, and exceeds your stuff in some areas,
that these areas are in your words" unimportant" is convienent

Adjusting for inflation does not increase the performance of the display device, so it is irrelevant as a basis of an argument. How do you know something is 90% of anything without experience with both? Abstracts are terrible as they are nothing more than a moving target. We now have standards, which do not allow for abstracts. You have to actually measure performance. And when you do that, you will find that your abstract percentage of performace in reality is much much lower. Measurements of performance are much better to me than just taking your so called experience, as your experience has proven pretty inadequate when it comes to anything higher than a cheap RPTV. As I have said before, you opinion, experience, and what you have forgotten is on par with tissue paper just used to clean a a$$



I have never owned a Rousch Porsch either, but I can find the fuel in jection system, brakes, etc quite handily.

Meaningless. We are not talking about cars. I can find my tubes in my projector, it does not mean I can repair them does it? Whether you can find anything does not equal knowledge or experience, and the fact that you think it does is very telling.



A front projector is just an adapted RPTV, uses three tubes in primary colors to produce a color picture, hardly rocket science.
The last real improvement was 9" tubes, then most saw the writing on the wall,
mainly that CRT, which were never intended to be projection devices could never compete with mercury bulbs, which were designed to put out decent light

Once again back to the light arguement. This shows just how weak your talking points are. Since 9" tubes can reproduce resolution higher than our HDTV standard, it seem that there is no need to advance beyond that. Since 9" CRT can put up enough light on a screen to reproduce an accurate 1080p image, and still meet SMPTE STANDARDS, then your argument if pretty much moot. All a CRT has to do is meet SMPTE standards for light output on the screen, and it has done its job. There is no reason in the world a CRT gun has to burn your eyes out in a brightly lit room, just like there is no real reason a digital projector has to do so. The more light a projector produces over that standard, the poorer the contrast ratio will be. That is why we should not watch high defintiion images in brightly lit rooms, and why peak light output makes absolutely no difference when acheiving ACCURATE images. Your argment only has legs when a person purposely wants to create poor images with poor contrast ratio, and has no desire to meet any standards. This is you in the flesh.


Good old joe, I BOUGHT MY SET A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, 1,000/'1 was considered quite good for an LCD, although a compromise.

Well, a cheap direct view CRT could do that easily.


Sets these days are capable of much more, but for serious watching I turn down the light on the set and contrast is improved a great deal.
As for 20,000 to one contrast there are some higher end sets now that can acheive at least 10,000

Let's face it Pix, total on and off on your panel is 1000:1 even when you turn your light down. It can never be more than what the panel can actually accomplish no matter what you do with the lights in your room.

As far as your comments regarding higher end sets doing 10,000:1, you are correct. That would be the Sony SXRD 4k projector which cost about $60-100,000 based on lens options. A sub $3k three gun CRT projector can easily accomplish that, and that just shows how far a LCD panel or projector has to go to catch up with a low end three gun CRT. There is only one flat panel that meets Joe Kanes and SMPTE recommendations. Its not a LCD based anything, its the Pioneer Kuros plasma panels. The best measured LCD based anything I have seen measured using Joe Kanes and SMPTE standards are basically 8000:1 with a noisy dynamic iris trying to keep up with the shifting light levels from fast moving scenes. Based on the comments I read, the iris's noise levels could be heard even when there were loud scenes in the picture. Once compromise to acheive another.


I quote joe kane from widescreen review, and what he says about resolution and picture q
contradicts almost everything you have to say so I WOULD BE CAREFULL QUOTING HIM

You are a bald face lie. I have EVERY widescreen review mag dating back to when it first started. While you can quote him, you do not understand completely what you are quoting, and you omit or dismiss anything that does not fit your arguement. You tell half truths which are also half lies. That makes your information completely unreliable at best.



mY FAULT, THATS WHAT YOU GET TRYING TO TALK DOWN TO A NINNY WHO DOESNT EVEN UNDERSTAND the difference between a test bench and real world conditions.

Last time I checked, test bench measurements tell what something can do in the real world. If the display device has a poor contrast measurement, it will not produce white whites or blacker than black in the real world. If it has a poor greyscale measurement on the bench, it would not be able to accurately transition from black to white. If the scaler does a poor job in the bench, the images will be soft in the real world. If it cannot reproduce the HD color gamut, it will not be able to do that with real world HD images. This is why magazines (and Joe Kane) make these measurements, because they will reflect real world performance. The fact that you think the two can be seperated shows that you do not know as much as you think you know. Tigers have stripes whether you see them in daylight or nightlight. If a panel measures poorly on the bench, it will perform poorly in the real world.



like the riverboat pilot SAMUEL CLEMENS said, "their are lies, damn lies, and statistics".
the same could be said of test bench results.

So your answer to this would be to throw out all test measurements, and not believe them? I suppose Joe Kane said this in Widescreen Review as well.


YOU KNOW ENOUGH, YOU CAN GET TEST GEAR TO JUMP THROUGH ALL KINDS OF HOOPS.

Yes you can, and the marketing departments of the manufacturers do it all the time, and guess what, you believe them, and quote them as a basis of your arguement. This is why I go to Joe Kane on display devices. He doesn't make them, and therefore does not need to fudge numbers, or attempt a slight of hand with measurements. He uses industry established measurement parimeters(SMPTE standards which have been rigorlessly tested) so his testing is always accurate and not fudged or manipulated. Sorry Pix, you cannot attempt to re-write history. Speakers are measured as a basis of real world perfomance, and so are display devices. With this everything is abstract(just the way you like it) and there would be no standards for sound reproduction or display performance.


The key question is real world performance, ease of use and availability.
I have always tried to emphazise affordable , reliable, well performing gear that will allow the average person to experience the joy of this hobby.

Real world performance is reflected by test bench measurements. Ease of use is meaningless as something may be easy for me to use, may not be easy for my grandmother to use. Affordable is based on somebody income, I think high end CRT's projectors are affordable, and you don't. Well performing without measurements is abstract and based on a person level of understanding of what performance really is. That measurement is all over the place as people view performance in much different ways. You think brightness is performance, I think that contrast ratio, color accuracy, greyscale accuracy, and getting the proper light levels on the screen is performance. Your key question is not my key question, which is why you need test measurements that create standards. If we went by your abstracts, no single device would look alike in any studio, home, office, or any other place that display devices are present. That is not our real world performance, sorry pixie.


The stuff you have(or claim to have) has no relevance in the real world.
Produce gear with those specs that the average person can use and purchase in the real world and you might have something, right now you have an expensive toy :1:

Sorry, I do not aspire to mediocrity, you do. That is why there is a high end, mid level, and mass market. Everyone idea of performance is not the same. I am not the blend in type, you are. I do not want to be like you, it would be a HUGE step backwards for me.

[E-Stat]

Tell you what guys, I'm going to put this thread out of its misery. What started off with some playful banter at times went a bit over the top. I think we all get the points by now. :)

rw