So I went with the Onkyo TX-SR805S...blind

[BadAssJazz]

Unfortunately no one had the unit in stock locally, so an audition wasn't possible. Barring any complications with FedEx, I should get it Friday in time for the weekend.

While I did some research on the unit, I'm baffled as to why this AVR only costs $699? Ok, it's replacement model -- the SR875 -- has landed, but when I look at the specs of the 805, I'm still trying to figure out how this is possible. Where are the shortcuts, lapses in quality, etc., etc.? It boasts 130 wpc, 1.3 HDMI, TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio..pretty much all of the bells and whistles. The Denon, Pioneer Elite, Marantz and Yamaha equivalents all cost $1200 or more. What gives? Anyone hear of any MAJOR issues with this receiver???


I'd also appreciate cooling fan recommendations. The one thing that did turn up in my search is that the 805 gets very hot. I have an open audio stand, but don't want to take any chances. Thanks in advance for the advice.


More TX-SR805 highlights:


130 watts x 7 into 8 ohms (20-20,000 Hz) at 0.05% THD
THX® Ultra2 certification
Dolby® True HD, DTS-HD™ Master Audio, Dolby® Digital Plus, DTS-HD™ High Resolution Audio, THX Surround EX®, Dolby® Digital EX, DTS-ES™, Pro Logic® IIx, and DTS Neo:6 decoding
XM Satellite Radio Ready (requires XM subscription and optional XM Mini-Tuner package)
Neural™-THX Surround decoder for XM's HD Surround channels and gaming
SIRIUS satellite radio capable (requires SIRIUS subscription and optional SiriusConnect™ home tuner kit)
iPod® integration (requires optional Onkyo DS-A2x iPod dock)
Audyssey Laboratories' MultEQ XT eight-point auto setup and room calibration system (microphone included)
three-room/three-source audio (powered and line-level stereo audio output for 2nd room, fixed line-level stereo audio output for 3rd room; using powered 2nd-room output allows 5.1 home theater in main room)
RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI) control via HDMI with compatible components
192kHz/24-bit Burr Brown DACs for all channels
high-current amplifier design
40 AM/FM/XM/SIRIUS presets
aluminum front panel
Onkyo HDsync control via HDMI
learning/multibrand remote
1080p-compatible HDMI digital video switching (3 in, 1 out)
HDMI version 1.3a
analog-to-HDMI video conversion
480i (interlaced) to 480p (progressive) conversion
component video switching (3 in, 1 out)
component video conversion
digital inputs: 3 optical (including 1 front panel), 3 coaxial
digital outputs: 1 optical
6 audio/video inputs, including:
3 audio-only inputs (including phono)
7.1-channel analog audio preamp input
7.1-channel analog audio preamp output
RS232 port

[f0rge]

well it's missing a couple of features...
- no 1080p upconverting
- "only" 3 HDMI ports
- doesn't have the Reon-HQV video scaler that the 875 has

but those aren't big issues, so yeah the receiver is a steal at that price.

[L.J.]

I auditioned this unit and did a review awhile back. I ran into a few issues.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=23134&highlight=onkyo+805

BTW, I think I paid only $720 for my 3rd one. Yes, I auditioned 3. I really liked this unit and was hoping to find a good one :arf:

Not trying to scare you though. I'm sure there's some good ones out there.

[zepman1]

there are reports of lip sync issues with the 805. To my knowledge you can adjust some settings to compensate for this partially, but it is still an issue for some owners....

[BadAssJazz]

I auditioned this unit and did a review awhile back. I ran into a few issues.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=23134&highlight=onkyo+805

BTW, I think I paid only $720 for my 3rd one. Yes, I auditioned 3. I really liked this unit and was hoping to find a good one :arf:

Not trying to scare you though. I'm sure there's some good ones out there.

Thanks and EXCELLENT write up!

The good news is that I do not own or ever intend to use a Play Station. But you're right: hopefully either Onkyo has patched the issue, or I will somehow luck out and get a good one. We'll see.

Either way, the popping sound may not necessarily be a deal breaker for me. I may be willing to work around it, if it's not too bad, since I only watch 2 - 3 movies a month using the full HT. (I must be getting older, because I distinctly remember a time when my AVR was on around the clock. I wouldn't even watch basic TV without it. My, how times have changed.)

And then there is also the little cost-benefit debate of whether or not it's worth it to me to shell out an additional $600 - $700 for a comparable unit, albeit one without the popping issue. It's certainly within my budget, but oh, the urge to find a once in a lifetime deal is strong with me. Must...not...give....in...!!!???!!!

[L.J.]

Thanks and EXCELLENT write up!

Thank you.


The good news is that I do not own or ever intend to use a Play Station. But you're right: hopefully either Onkyo has patched the issue, or I will somehow luck out and get a good one. We'll see.

Either way, the popping sound may not necessarily be a deal breaker for me. I may be willing to work around it, if it's not too bad, since I only watch 2 - 3 movies a month using the full HT.

I got into the habit of muting when the popping would happen. I few times I had my volume left high and just didn't want to deal with it anymore. Mr. Bobsticks says it's a amp related issue and can be bypassed by those using an external amp....I think he said that...:aureola:


(I must be getting older, because I distinctly remember a time when my AVR was on around the clock. I wouldn't even watch basic TV without it. My, how times have changed.)

Yeah, your getting old dude :ciappa:


And then there is also the little cost-benefit debate of whether or not it's worth it to me to shell out an additional $600 - $700 for a comparable unit, albeit one without the popping issue. It's certainly within my budget, but oh, the urge to find a once in a lifetime deal is strong with me. Must...not...give....in...!!!???!!!

Yeah I went through the same debate.
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=23558&highlight=onkyo+805

[BadAssJazz]

Hey LJ,

At what point did you start experiencing the popping sound? Was it right off the bat or much later?

My 805 arrived two days early, so I spent yesterday setting everything up. Keeping my fingers crossed, but so far I have not encountered any of the popping noises or lip sync issues that others have reported. Cautiously optimistic, but so far I'm impressed in every respect with this AVR's performance. It sounds amazing.

Cosmetically, it exceeded my expectations. I am not a fan of the silver faceplate on most components, because they often look more plastic than metal silver. The 805 faceplate is some kind of brushed steel composition. It vaguely reminds me of Arcam, especially with the green led's. The dimmer also turns off that annoyingly unnecessary blue light around the volume nob.

[GMichael]

Me thinks that somebody is happy with their new toy.:21:

[L.J.]

Hey LJ,

At what point did you start experiencing the popping sound? Was it right off the bat or much later?

My 805 arrived two days early, so I spent yesterday setting everything up. Keeping my fingers crossed, but so far I have not encountered any of the popping noises or lip sync issues that others have reported. Cautiously optimistic, but so far I'm impressed in every respect with this AVR's performance. It sounds amazing.

Cosmetically, it exceeded my expectations. I am not a fan of the silver faceplate on most components, because they often look more plastic than metal silver. The 805 faceplate is some kind of brushed steel composition. It vaguely reminds me of Arcam, especially with the green led's. The dimmer also turns off that annoyingly unnecessary blue light around the volume nob.

Now you know why I went through 3 before giving up.

Did yours come with a note from Onkyo saying that these sounds are "normal"? It specifically mentions when viewing BR or HDDVD.

It has to be HDMI related somehow, because it would only happen with my PS3. Others have reported it happening on their Toshiba players connected via HDMI so I doubt it's only a PS3 issue.

Some think that it's a heat issue and said an additional fan solved the problem but I got popping immediately with every unit. Do you have any HDMI sources? Maybe you can test something out.

I also ran into this interesting problem with the 805. It didn't happen with any other AVR.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=23334

Funny thing is that some never had a problem at all. Onkyo stepped it up with one heck of a unit for very decent price. I have never seen so much adjustablility in a AVR. You can tweak everything. Too bad it didn't work out for me this time around. Maybe I'll give it another try soon(that's right GM another upgrade...gotta problem with that). I hope your luck turns out better. All mine came from CC so maybe they had a bad batch.

[BadAssJazz]

L.J.,

This unit came from CC as well. And yes, it did have the disclaimer. Yet another reason why I'm so cautiously optimistic. (So I guess if I'm not experiencing the popping sound, should I consider THAT a malfunction?)

I have my Samsung BD hooked up via HDMI to the 805. I watched "3:10 to Yuma (BR)" and the first half hour of "300." I also sampled various standard DVD's, just to put the Samsung through it's paces. No problems at all. I heard the movie "Sunshine" can be problematic for some, so I'm renting that movie next.

I also read somewhere (AVS forums maybe?) that some folks encountered issues simply playing standard CD's. I still have an old crappy Sony mega changer that only plays redbook CD's in my closet, so I hooked that up to see if anything was amiss. No problems at all. In fact, the music sounded much more defined and life-like. Neither my Marantz nor the Denon before it could resurrect Miles Davis quite like the 805.

It's possible that the handshake issues may surface later on, so I'll keep ya posted. Right now, it looks like the 805 was the bargain of the year!

[f0rge]

congrats on the new unit, glad everything is working out for you :D

[pixelthis]

L.J.,

This unit came from CC as well. And yes, it did have the disclaimer. Yet another reason why I'm so cautiously optimistic. (So I guess if I'm not experiencing the popping sound, should I consider THAT a malfunction?)

I have my Samsung BD hooked up via HDMI to the 805. I watched "3:10 to Yuma (BR)" and the first half hour of "300." I also sampled various standard DVD's, just to put the Samsung through it's paces. No problems at all. I heard the movie "Sunshine" can be problematic for some, so I'm renting that movie next.

I also read somewhere (AVS forums maybe?) that some folks encountered issues simply playing standard CD's. I still have an old crappy Sony mega changer that only plays redbook CD's in my closet, so I hooked that up to see if anything was amiss. No problems at all. In fact, the music sounded much more defined and life-like. Neither my Marantz nor the Denon before it could resurrect Miles Davis quite like the 805.

It's possible that the handshake issues may surface later on, so I'll keep ya posted. Right now, it looks like the 805 was the bargain of the year!

Hope you like it.
The popping was probably PS3 related, but a ps3 fanboy would be blind to that possibility.
Onkyo/Integra makes some decent amps , high current, they say, dont worry about the heat, they run a tad hot.
Had my Integra for almost four years and no problems whatsoever:1:

[L.J.]

Hope you like it.
The popping was probably PS3 related, but a ps3 fanboy would be blind to that possibility.
Onkyo/Integra makes some decent amps , high current, they say, dont worry about the heat, they run a tad hot.
Had my Integra for almost four years and no problems whatsoever:1:

HELLO...are you reading the thread. You think Onkyo/Intergra is sooo tight because you happened to get a good unit..get over it. Every freakin' thread you run the "Yammie sucks because my unit went bad, Onkyo/Integra is where it's at cause my Integra still works after 4 years". Please, and you calling me a "fanboy". Maybe I should start praising JVC since my 8 year old garage unit is still running.

Sorry but your the one that's "blind". These are replies from non-PS3 owners commenting on their experiences with Onkyo 605 - 805. The popping plagues their 875/905 units as well as the Integra line.


Mine has a lot of popping from the second I turn on the system from the time I turn it off. this includes all types of connections (HDMI, Optical as well as the 5.1 analog inputs from my HD-DVD player. It has now been over 24 hours since I bought it. It is going right back to the store. I will try another one though.


I am getting persistent popping on my 605 (black). Hooked it up yesterday and it has popped during the 2 HD-DVD's I have watched. Everything is hooked up via HDMI.

Bought from Value Electronics and have already emailed Robert about returning or if there is a known fix. Very annoying.


i dont use it for hd dvd yet and only toslink and coax for audio no hdmi. it pops in all sources. i do have it enclosed and it gets hot but this shouldnt cause it to pop.


Mine is not HDMI specific. I hooked up my Nintendo Wii via the composite inputs and it still pops out of the speakers. I am now in day 3 of having mine hooked up.


Had mine a week, still popping (not from switching) pops when ipod is connected, HD DVD and Directv.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=859792&highlight=popping

Read the thread...Onkyo sends a disclaimer with every unit that says you may here a sound while playing certain sources. They state it's normal. And I take it the sync issues and switching delay is caused by the PS3 as well.

Yeah Onkyo dropped a great product, if you can get a good one.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...Maybe I should start praising JVC since my 8 year old garage unit is still running...
Ya know, I just got done repairing my garage unit. Mine's made by Craftsman though. How does the JVC work? Pretty well it looks like.

[f0rge]

pix, if the ps3 isnt doing it on his yamaha then it's not a ps3 problem, it's an onkyo problem.

i'm an xbox fanboy and even i can see that

and my ps3 works just fine on my denon

[BadAssJazz]

I have to agree...all of the research that I've done (post purchase, unfortunately) indicates that it must be something amiss with Onkyo.

Right now I'm just wondering if and when I'll encounter the same issues. I've been playing the unit almost non-stop since I received it... so far, no problems. I'm trying to think of what else to throw at the thing, but maybe I should just count my blessings and leave well enough alone.

I've decided to hold off on getting the Panasonic BD30, as apparently the BD50 will be out in May. I can wait a month. Except for the incredibly long loading time, I can get by with the Samsung BD. Or just watch standard DVD's.

[GMichael]

I have to agree...all of the research that I've done (post purchase, unfortunately) indicates that it must be something amiss with Onkyo.

Right now I'm just wondering if and when I'll encounter the same issues. I've been playing the unit almost non-stop since I received it... so far, no problems. I'm trying to think of what else to throw at the thing, but maybe I should just count my blessings and leave well enough alone.

I've decided to hold off on getting the Panasonic BD30, as apparently the BD50 will be out in May. I can wait a month. Except for the incredibly long loading time, I can get by with the Samsung BD. Or just watch standard DVD's.


I've heard that most people who have the switching pop, have it out of the box. Sounds like you got a good one. Congrats. It should work fine for many years.

[L.J.]

I've heard that most people who have the switching pop, have it out of the box. Sounds like you got a good one. Congrats. It should work fine for many years.

People where confused about the popping at first and thought the "click" you hear from the unit when it switches sources was the popping sound. All my units do this and we know that it's normal.

The sound that I and many others are refering to is a thud type sound that comes out of your speakers.

BJazz, if you haven't had any issues yet, odds are you came across a "good" unit. You lucky SOB, I hate you :D

BTW, the 805 is now on sale at CC for $699 plus 10% off. Maybe you can get a price match.

[frenchmon]

Well I too wondered about the Onkyos and the cheap prices of their Hometheater recievers for a while. I've seen many of their reviews and could not believe all the problems people where having. My sister has to of the old pro-logic recievers and an amp from the 90's and those things are rock solid. But the new ones are something different. While many are quick to pounce on the new Onkyo hometheaters, I would stay clear of them. I have concluded that Onkyo as well as Denon and a few others are going for the numbers in sales over quality of product. In my humble opinion its a sell out for the all mighty dollar. BTW thats not to say all of the Onkyo's are like this. From what I can tell the A-9555 amp is not mass marketed and is a fine machine. But those hometheater products are trouble amd a big let down because they push them out for the all mighty dollar. Pioneer has the Elite Brand...Not Mas Marketed. Sony has the ES, Not Mas Marketed...all Marantz parts are hand selected, and is not Mas Marketed... Nad is not Mas marketed, Rotel is not Mas Marketed, Yammies as far as I can tell is quality. Dennon has issues with Mas Market on some lower end stuff, but Onkyo, unlike the integra which has hand selected parts, is mas marketed...why? Because they want number in sales. Mas Market stuff such as Home theater electronics can only mean less quality. If I was given a Onkyo A/V reciever I would sell the thing as fast as I could...after all thats how they can build them and sell them so cheaply...so they can sell them as fast as they can,

frenchmon

[kexodusc]

Well I too wondered about the Onkyos and the cheap prices of their Hometheater recievers for a while. I've seen many of their reviews and could not believe all the problems people where having. My sister has to of the old pro-logic recievers and an amp from the 90's and those things are rock solid. But the new ones are something different. While many are quick to pounce on the new Onkyo hometheaters, I would stay clear of them. I have concluded that Onkyo as well as Denon and a few others are going for the numbers in sales over quality of product. In my humble opinion its a sell out for the all mighty dollar. BTW thats not to say all of the Onkyo's are like this. From what I can tell the A-9555 amp is not mass marketed and is a fine machine. But those hometheater products are trouble amd a big let down because they push them out for the all mighty dollar. Pioneer has the Elite Brand...Not Mas Marketed. Sony has the ES, Not Mas Marketed...all Marantz parts are hand selected, and is not Mas Marketed... Nad is not Mas marketed, Rotel is not Mas Marketed, Yammies as far as I can tell is quality. Dennon has issues with Mas Market on some lower end stuff, but Onkyo, unlike the integra which has hand selected parts, is mas marketed...why? Because they want number in sales. Mas Market stuff such as Home theater electronics can only mean less quality. If I was given a Onkyo A/V reciever I would sell the thing as fast as I could...after all thats how they can build them and sell them so cheaply...so they can sell them as fast as they can,

frenchmon

The problem here is our desire to oversimplify and instantly assume mass market = bad quality. That is not the case. Bad mass market = bad quality.
Toyota, Timex, Yamaha, are all mass market. They're also synonymous with quality.

Looking at most of the brands you named here, NAD, Rotel, you are clearly in another price bracket vs the Onkyo. It is a shame that this odd popping noise some experience is tarnishing the otherwise stellar a/v receiver, but I wouldn't write off Onkyo's quality.
In this case, HDMI and the likes are still a new technology and a few bugs isn't unheard of.

Speaking of the NAD/Marantz - Marantz was bought out a few years back and shifted production to China. I had 2 receivers crap out on me within 14 months back in 2000. I switched to Yamaha. I don't even remember if my receiver was made in China or wherever, but it goes to show nobody's perfect. Harman Kardon is another who's had their share of difficulties recently.

I also have 2 NAD's from the early 1980's. They are still going strong. Wish I could say the same for some of the stuff they made in the mid 1990's.

Every manufacture, mass market or otherwise, has their problems from time to time.
I'm hoping Onkyo has fixed this minor issue, or at least made the necessary modifications. I could be in the market for a new a/v receiver real soon :biggrin5:

[L.J.]

I'm hoping Onkyo has fixed this minor issue, or at least made the necessary modifications. I could be in the market for a new a/v receiver real soon :biggrin5:

Yeah it's called the Onkyo 806....maybe 807 :D

[kexodusc]

Yeah it's called the Onkyo 806....maybe 807 :D
Cheap bastard that I am, I'm not looking forward to shelling out $1000+ for an RX-V1800 or whatever.
HDMI has really bumped the cost of a/v receivers. A few low cost, high value models could help with that. Keeps 'em all honest at least. The world needs Onkyo. We'll see.

[frenchmon]

The problem here is our desire to oversimplify and instantly assume mass market = bad quality. That is not the case. Bad mass market = bad quality.
Toyota, Timex, Yamaha, are all mass market. They're also synonymous with quality.

I did qualify my statement...mass market electronics such as hometheater.


Looking at most of the brands you named here, NAD, Rotel, you are clearly in another price bracket vs the Onkyo.

And why do you think that is...because its not marketed to the big box stores as Onkyo...The Marantz lower end which has hand selected parts are not mass marketed. Pioneers lower end recievers are mass marketed, so is Sony's lower end, and both have issues with cheaper parts being mass marketed. This is also the case with Onkyo.

The same company that owns and makes Onkyo also has A/V equipment that is in the same price and quality as NAD and Rotel...its called Integra and Integra Research. Marantz lower end can also be seen as being in the same class as Rotels lower end. Marantz also has a Reference Line. For a little more coin, a Onkyo purchase could be a Integra purchase with better quality.


It is a shame that this odd popping noise some experience is tarnishing the otherwise stellar a/v receiver, but I wouldn't write off Onkyo's quality.

Well I would. I've enjoyed Onkyo for years before they became a mass market product. When they begain to push their product through the big box store the quality went down as can be seen in it A/V products.


In this case, HDMI and the likes are still a new technology and a few bugs isn't unheard of.

Its funny that mostly the mass marketed Onkyo's are having the HDMI problem as well as a few other problems. But its a new technology to all manufactures.


Speaking of the NAD/Marantz - Marantz was bought out a few years back and shifted production to China.

Yes thats correct, but you also failed to mention that they also manufacture in Japan.


I had 2 receivers crap out on me within 14 months back in 2000. I switched to Yamaha. I don't even remember if my receiver was made in China or wherever, but it goes to show nobody's perfect. Harman Kardon is another who's had their share of difficulties recently.I also have 2 NAD's from the early 1980's. They are still going strong. Wish I could say the same for some of the stuff they made in the mid 1990's.

Yes I remember the Marantz x400 models had some problems while not being mass marketed and having hand selected parts. But it was no where near the level of the mass marketed Onkyo's. I've even heard of the Higher end hand built audio amps and recievers having there problems. But in my humble opinion, if one is looking to buy quality, stay away from the mass market.




Every manufacture, mass market or otherwise, has their problems from time to time.
I'm hoping Onkyo has fixed this minor issue, or at least made the necessary modifications. I could be in the market for a new a/v receiver real soon :biggrin5:

Onkyo has a new line out already. Its mass marketed as well. If I where you, I'd at least go for the Integra line. They too have had one of the problems of the Onkyo...some popping, but at least you get better quality...hand selected parts. If I had a choice of any old part, or selected parts for better quality, I'd spend my money on the one with the selected parts.\



Take a look at the new Onkyo...look at what it offers, and then look at the price. This is mass market.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/25/onkyos-tx-sa606x-receiver-handles-aquos-viera-and-regza-hdmi-c/

Thats my two cents.

frenchmon

[pixelthis]

HELLO...are you reading the thread. You think Onkyo/Intergra is sooo tight because you happened to get a good unit..get over it. Every freakin' thread you run the "Yammie sucks because my unit went bad, Onkyo/Integra is where it's at cause my Integra still works after 4 years". Please, and you calling me a "fanboy". Maybe I should start praising JVC since my 8 year old garage unit is still running.

Sorry but your the one that's "blind". These are replies from non-PS3 owners commenting on their experiences with Onkyo 605 - 805. The popping plagues their 875/905 units as well as the Integra line.











http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=859792&highlight=popping

Read the thread...Onkyo sends a disclaimer with every unit that says you may here a sound while playing certain sources. They state it's normal. And I take it the sync issues and switching delay is caused by the PS3 as well.

Yeah Onkyo dropped a great product, if you can get a good one.



Talk about JVC, a friend bought a jvc receiver in the mid 80's, finally got rid of it a few years ago, never broke.
just like that guy who was shooting things up, drove a 74 gremlin, thing still runs.
DOESNT CHANGE THE FACT THAT BOTH ARE MEDIOCRE.
I agree with frenchie that a lot of "name" companies are trading on their name
and putting out a lot of junk.
EVEN SO, I have listened to a lot of onkyos and have NEVER heard any strange "noises"
(except when algores on tv)
And does this "noise" come from the receiver or the speakers?

AND you're STILL a ps3 "fanboy" BTW:1:

[kexodusc]

I did qualify my statement...mass market electronics such as hometheater.
Again, old stereotypes don't necessarily hold true here. A lot of home theater electronic components are of good quality. Yamaha, Denon, Integra, etc are not all hand made either, but they generally last for decades regardless of how cheap they sell for or in what stores. You can rest assured whether buying a $300 or $3000 Denon or Yamaha receiver that it will outlive your use for it, and these assembly line pieces often outlive hand made, exotic audio equipment.

Best Buy even sells Pioneer Elite now. In a lot of markets where the big box store is the only store in town, high end gear is starting to pop up just so it can get shelf space in a market. The distribution channel has no bearing on quality.

I'm not defending Onkyo per se...if this is a problem they haven't fixed then they should be criticized for it, but painting all big box store products as somehow being inferior quality is just not true anymore. Years back I can remember Onkyo taking a beating in the PR department but generally over the last 10 years or so Onkyo home theater receivers have been very reliable, with low failure rates and very few complaints. I'm not going to write them off because 1 model might have had a problem that appears to have been resolved in later production runs.

I'm not 100% sure if it's still the case, but a few years back there was some overlap in the Onkyo and Integra model lines, much like the Pioneer Elite/Pioneer lines had identical products. Is that still the case?

[frenchmon]

Again, old stereotypes don't necessarily hold true here. A lot of home theater electronic components are of good quality. Yamaha, Denon, Integra, etc are not all hand made either, but they generally last for decades regardless of how cheap they sell for or in what stores.

I never argued that they where hand made. I only argued that mass marketed lines are for the big box stores. OBTW...Yamaha has two lines. One for the big box stores and one for specialty stores. Same equipment...I suspect only one line has better quality. Check the numbers on the Yammies in big box stores and specialty stores.They are different. The Denon lines in CC are different from the lines in Magnolia. One is mass marketed the other is not.




You can rest assured whether buying a $300 or $3000 Denon or Yamaha receiver that it will outlive your use for it, and these assembly line pieces often outlive hand made, exotic audio equipment.

Not arguing hand made. But I can tell you, the mass market is not better quality. Look at the Denons in CC ...they even look cheap. Then look at one in the specialty store. Big difference.


Best Buy even sells Pioneer Elite now. In a lot of markets where the big box store is the only store in town, high end gear is starting to pop up just so it can get shelf space in a market. The distribution channel has no bearing on quality.

But you fail to understand the issue. Magnolia is a specialty store within Best Buy. The Elites you see in there are not the same Pioneers you see out front. Neither is the Yammies in Magnolia the same as those out front. Whats in Magnolia is marketed to those who want better quality. Whats in Magnolia is priced more than whats out front. Why do you think that is?


I'm not defending Onkyo per se...if this is a problem they haven't fixed then they should be criticized for it, but painting all big box store products as somehow being inferior quality is just not true anymore. Years back I can remember Onkyo taking a beating in the PR department but generally over the last 10 years or so Onkyo home theater receivers have been very reliable, with low failure rates and very few complaints. I'm not going to write them off because 1 model might have had a problem that appears to have been resolved in later production runs.

Well I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong here. The reason Onkyo can sell so many of their receivers so cheap in the big box stores and on line is because its not their best quality product. You get lots of features at a lower price due to the market they target. The Denons you see in the home theater specalty stores offer lots of features as well but cost more. The Denons you see in CC have lots of features, but are not of the same quality and cost less. Thats not to say all mass market products will break, but its not as good of a quality as can be. Onkyo has to buy some of their parts to go into their product. If they use cheaper parts, they pass the savings onto the consumer. If they buy and use more expensive quality parts in their products and have to hand select and inspect the parts, they pass the cost on to the consumer who wants that up-grade. Thats why they have the Integra and Integra Research lines.

If I buy A/V equipment, I plan on keeping and using it for years. I want quality. When I was a kid, I cared less for quality, I wanted something that sounded good.


I'm not 100% sure if it's still the case, but a few years back there was some overlap in the Onkyo and Integra model lines, much like the Pioneer Elite/Pioneer lines had identical products. Is that still the case?

Don't know what you mean by overlap. But both brands have very simular looking equipment. One line being mass marketed and the other not. You can bet the Elite, Integra brands are of better quality, unless they are hood winking the consumers .

The Yammies have two different numbers on their recievers. HTR and RX-V lines. Of course Yammie claims that both lines have the same quality parts and cost the same. They even claim that the RX-V line is for the specialty stores and that the HTR is for the mass market store. But I don't buy it that they are the same. If you go to a big box store the HTR line does not look as good as the RX-V line which is in the specialty store, nor do they cost the same. They are even rated differently.But Yamaha claims they are the same. I'm not going to be hood winked . One is mass marketed the other is not. Go figure.

frenchmon

[kexodusc]

Well I guess Yamaha are lying then. Shame on them. :shocked:

[GMichael]

Well I guess Yamaha are lying then. Shame on them. :shocked:

I was thinking the same thing. Yamaha states that the HTR and RX-V series are made the same internally. The faceplates are different and the ratings are measured differently. The HTR line is sold on-line and through mass distributors like Best Buy. Deals on these are readily available. The RX-V line is only available (at least authorized to be available from) B&M stores. Even stores like J&R could only sell the RX-V line if you walked in the door. No on-line sales. I believe that this restriction is gone now. Prices on these were fixed and authorized distributors are not aloud to discount below a specified amount. But not all of the RX-V line has an HTR equal. The upper models like 2500, 2700, 3800 etc don't have an HTR comparables.

Shame on them for lying.

[kexodusc]

I was thinking the same thing. Yamaha states that the HTR and RX-V series are made the same internally. The faceplates are different and the ratings are measured differently. The HTR line is sold on-line and through mass distributors like Best Buy. Deals on these are readily available. The RX-V line is only available (at least authorized to be available from) B&M stores. Even stores like J&R could only sell the RX-V line if you walked in the door. No on-line sales. I believe that this restriction is gone now. Prices on these were fixed and authorized distributors are not aloud to discount below a specified amount. But not all of the RX-V line has an HTR equal. The upper models like 2500, 2700, 3800 etc don't have an HTR comparables.

Shame on them for lying.
There's been a few people to take them apart and post reviews of the comparable models. The RX-V1XXX and HTR-XX90 models have always been functionally identical, rated the same etc. They use the same capacitors, power supplies, fans, DAC's, etc. I know my HTR-5890 is identical to the RX-V1500. It is a small upgrade from my old RX-V1400. But the RX-V had the cool front faceplate look. Dunno if that's worth $50 or not, but whatever.

In my neck of the woods, RX-V and HTR are sold at both big box retailers and small audio boutiques. There doesn't appear to be any restrictions on the store's square-footage for you to be able to carry one or the other. So it's definitely loosened somewhat.
The HTR line has had a few smaller models that didn't have RX-V equivalents, and yes, the there hasn't been any HTR models to match the 2700's and higher.
Years back they even shared the same faceplates. If you compare the manuals, they are rated the same still. The do provide a 2nd inflated rating for the HTR line though.

[L.J.]

Talk about JVC, a friend bought a jvc receiver in the mid 80's, finally got rid of it a few years ago, never broke.
just like that guy who was shooting things up, drove a 74 gremlin, thing still runs.
DOESNT CHANGE THE FACT THAT BOTH ARE MEDIOCRE.

Umm....that was my point :shocked:

BTW, nothing wrong with my JVC. Not the best, but it does the job I need it to.


I agree with frenchie that a lot of "name" companies are trading on their name
and putting out a lot of junk.
EVEN SO, I have listened to a lot of onkyos and have NEVER heard any strange "noises"
(except when algores on tv)

Yeah, so you assumed it couldn't be a precious Onkyo and had to be the PS3. I was showing you that it is an Onkyo related problem. So who's the blind fanboy here?


And does this "noise" come from the receiver or the speakers?

Go back and read the thread man....you gotta keep up.


AND you're STILL a ps3 "fanboy" BTW:1:

Not really, but if it makes you happy.....

[frenchmon]

I could be wrong about the Yammies. I'll be the first one to admit that. But I just can't seem to understand the difference in the Model numbers, why they have different ratings and are marketed to diffrent crowds. Just does not add up. They even say they have the same manufactures price, but I know they are priced different. It just smells fishy to me.

frenchmon

[Rich-n-Texas]

Maybe it's that "Gray Market" thing Frenchmon. Anyway, I purchased my 3800 online through 6th Ave. Electronics and they're not a specialty store. And the price I paid was $500 below MSRP.

Question: You put a lot of emphasis on components that are built with "hand selected parts". Can you tell me what exactly that means?

[GMichael]

I could be wrong about the Yammies. I'll be the first one to admit that. But I just can't seem to understand the difference in the Model numbers, why they have different ratings and are marketed to diffrent crowds. Just does not add up. They even say they have the same manufactures price, but I know they are priced different. It just smells fishy to me.

frenchmon

The power ratings on the HTR models are taken at 2k htz while the RX-V's are rated from 20 to 20K. That's why an HTR will have a higher power rating than the comparable RX-V even though they are really the same. Just measured differently. The faceplates make them look very different from each other.
There have been big debates over the Onkyo vs Integra, and Pioneer vs Pioneer Elite. Some say that they are just charging more for the same thing. Others say that the more expensive lines have better parts. I will hold off my judgment until I see two units apart and being tested.

[kexodusc]

I could be wrong about the Yammies. I'll be the first one to admit that. But I just can't seem to understand the difference in the Model numbers, why they have different ratings and are marketed to diffrent crowds. Just does not add up. They even say they have the same manufactures price, but I know they are priced different. It just smells fishy to me.

frenchmon

Think about it - you are on record here believing that a mass market Yamaha a/v receiver is inferior to a Yamaha reciever of equal specs sold in an audio specialty shop. If I was a clever Yamaha marketing employee trying to get you to buy a receiver, I'd see slap on a different looking front chassis, change the model number and sell it only in audio shops to directly target the "discriminating" receiver buyer who hates mass market. Hey if they buy it believing it's better, mission accomplished.

Except it happened the other way around. Before home theater took off, most big box stores didn't sell as many stereo receivers. There was no HTR line, and you didn't see Yamaha in a big box stores much. But then the big-screen TV comes, and Best Buy wants to sell the RX-V line. The local audio shop doesn't want to give up his right to being the exclusive dealer of Yamaha products, but Yamaha knows that Best Buy will move a lot of units because a lot of people do one-stop shopping. So they made the HTR line to "compete" in the same cities as the RX-V line.

The ratings aren't different. If you read the HTR manual and RX-V manuals and look at the the rating specs, you'll see they have the same numbers. The HTR also reports a more "loose" rating to boost the watt number, but they also spec them to the same standard as the RX-V's. You could rate a Krell that way if you wanted too. It would inflate the wattage, but doesn't mean it's of any less quality.

It would be awefully expensive to run a separate, parallel product line that had to be designed from scratch, built in another production facility, even of lesser quality that is basically competing with another product Yamaha already has. Too much additional R&D, overhead, etc. So they just slapped a different badge on it. I can remember Maybe 6 or 7 years ago, if that, the two lines even looked identical (I think the HTR-XX90 series has the same look as the RX-V1X00 again).

Don't feel duped. This is nothing new to the audio or any industry.

How many cars have GM and Ford made over the years that are virtually identical in all aspects except for the front badging and maybe a bit of body sytling? The Dodge Caravan/Plymouth Voyager minivans? Same quality. They just had different dealer networks.

[kexodusc]

The power ratings on the HTR models are taken at 2k htz while the RX-V's are rated from 20 to 20K. That's why an HTR will have a higher power rating than the comparable RX-V even though they are really the same. Just measured differently. The faceplates make them look very different from each other.
There have been big debates over the Onkyo vs Integra, and Pioneer vs Pioneer Elite. Some say that they are just charging more for the same thing. Others say that the more expensive lines have better parts. I will hold off my judgment until I see two units apart and being tested.
From what I've seen/read about Denon, it's the same thing as Yammie. Harman Kardon hasn't fallen into that trap - yet...I know with Onkyo and Pioneer Elite, it's been less blatant in that they dont' usually have 3 or 4 duplicate models, but there's still been some product overlap.

[BadAssJazz]

BTW, the 805 is now on sale at CC for $699 plus 10% off. Maybe you can get a price match.

Luck of the Irish, good looking out! I'll see if CC will offer some sort of price adjustment.

[Rich-n-Texas]

If you're ever looking for a shopper stopper or blue-light special... L.J.'s got ya covered! :yesnod:

[frenchmon]

Maybe it's that "Gray Market" thing Frenchmon. Anyway, I purchased my 3800 online through 6th Ave. Electronics and they're not a specialty store. And the price I paid was $500 below MSRP.

Question: You put a lot of emphasis on components that are built with "hand selected parts". Can you tell me what exactly that means?

Many of the audio manufactures "hand select" the componets. It takes inspection of every componet to another leverl to insure quality. This is what Pioneer is doing to a new line of amps. Read here.

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS52310+06-Jan-2008+BW20080106

"Recognized with some of the world's revolutionary components, TAD
products are developed from superior materials and sophisticated
manufacturing processes. TAD Labs Inc. is planning to release its
first power amplifier, the most advanced piece of equipment in
Pioneer's sophisticated audio technology history. The new amplifier is
painstakingly engineered with hand-selected parts to ensure
uncompromised performance.

As a result, TAD Labs Inc. will unveil one of the industry's most
efficient Class-A power amplifiers that realizes a 70% reduction in
energy consumption. TAD Labs Inc. will announce these
commercially-available products in the upcoming future."


Also look what Pioneer is doing with their new flagship Elite A/V reciever.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cedia07/pioneer-elite-sc+09tx-amp-and-receiver-kicks-audio-arse-297195.php

"As the first flagship A/V receiver in nearly three years, Pioneer engineers utilized hand selected, professional-grade digital components, notably the renowned Wolfson 192 kHz/24-bit digital analog converter (DAC). Approved by professional sound engineers, the addition of Wolfson DACs ensure significant prowess in Pioneer's new flagship model. Highly regarded among professional sound engineers, the SC-09TX boasts six Wolfson WM8741 D/A converters. By including the industry's most superior sounding DAC, entertainment enthusiasts, notably audiophiles, will recognize the high performance capability only found with Pioneer's new reference receiver.

I think the Elite series all have had hand selected parts all along, but what is now going on is that the lower line of new 2008 Pioneers that you see in the big box stores all have hand selected parts now. This is fantastic! That means better quality. I have yet to see Onkyo make that claim. Read about it here.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/pioneer-debuts-4-new-advanced-receivers

"P.H.A.T – Pioneer Hybrid Amplifier technology
With this new line, Pioneer is incorporating its newly developed Pioneer Hybrid Amplifier Technology (P.H.A.T.) power module that improves fundamental audio to a more powerful and accurate performance designed to exceed the capabilities of current comparably priced A/V receivers in the market. Featured in the VSX-518-K, VSX-818V-K, VSX-918V-K A/V receivers, P.H.A.T amplifiers are painstakingly engineered with hand-selected parts and critical listening sound tuning to ensure the entire range of audio from music and soundtracks is delivered.

I have seen Marantz make the same claim of using hand selected parts.

Mostly all of the higher end A/V gear has hand selected parts. Look what is said about Bryson

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13645_1-9779323-47.html


Rather than rely on inexpensive, off-the-shelf chipsets, the Bryston player's audio circuits use "discrete" devices--individual transistors, resistors, and capacitors. Each part is hand selected and installed, every wire is cut and bent by hand, every connection is hand soldered. This strategy, while expensive to implement allows Bryston engineers to more precisely match the player's analog audio circuits with its digital-to-analog converters.

Bryston workers individually test each and every product they manufacture. Bryston claims its construction techniques are on par with military and aerospace industries.

frenchmon

[Rich-n-Texas]

If I understand the industry right, Pioneer and Bryson don't make their own resistors, capacitors, diodes...etc. Do any of your links indicate where they get these components? Are they using 1% or better tolerance resistors? 1% or better caps? Panasonic is the only company I know of that manufactures these types of passive components as well as producing their own A/V gear, but even then it's possible that they don't use them in their products. And isn't that all just marketing speak?

[L.J.]

Luck of the Irish, good looking out! I'll see if CC will offer some sort of price adjustment.

Looks like the sale is over. Check the site daily. CC has 1 day & 4 hour sales all the time....especially on the weekend.

[frenchmon]

If I understand the industry right, Pioneer and Bryson don't make their own resistors, capacitors, diodes...etc. Do any of your links indicate where they get these components? Are they using 1% or better tolerance resistors? 1% or better caps? Panasonic is the only company I know of that manufactures these types of passive components as well as producing their own A/V gear, but even then it's possible that they don't use them in their products. And isn't that all just marketing speak?

Sorry Rich. I don't have the answers to your latest questions. But I do know, and its a fact that many who manufacture the A/V products we buy don't all ways use the better parts when they assemble. Many of the components are cheap. You can bet that an A/V reciever that cost $99.00 has the cheap stuff within. If you want quality, you have to pay for it. Is it all marketing speak or hype? I don't think so. At least I hope not...if so we have all been hood winked.

I never knew that Panasonic made all their componets.

I do know that Paradigm Speaker Company makes all of their own components they put in their speakers. Thats why they can sell that good quality of speaker below other name brand speakers in the same class who purchase parts for their speakers.. I suppose if other A/V companies made all of their own components and hand selected the ones they put in them, then the cost would be down a greater margin, but we see thats not the case with most quality A/V equipment. Bryson, Rotel, Marantz, Integra, Yammies RX , Pioneer Elite, Classe, Arcam, Moon, Krell and the likes aint cheap....they make you pay a pretty penny for the quality hand selected parts. I do remember reading some place years ago about a buyer from a A/V company going to inspect componets before buying them, to get quality parts.

frenchmon

[pixelthis]

I was thinking the same thing. Yamaha states that the HTR and RX-V series are made the same internally. The faceplates are different and the ratings are measured differently. The HTR line is sold on-line and through mass distributors like Best Buy. Deals on these are readily available. The RX-V line is only available (at least authorized to be available from) B&M stores. Even stores like J&R could only sell the RX-V line if you walked in the door. No on-line sales. I believe that this restriction is gone now. Prices on these were fixed and authorized distributors are not aloud to discount below a specified amount. But not all of the RX-V line has an HTR equal. The upper models like 2500, 2700, 3800 etc don't have an HTR comparables.

Shame on them for lying.

The RX-V is not available at "B&W stores".
A small audio store in town has been selling them for decades (or however long they have been out)
One thing I have noticed is a relationship between yamaha and deftech.
Of course the whole thing is moot, yamaha is changing their entire product line:1:

[pixelthis]

Again, old stereotypes don't necessarily hold true here. A lot of home theater electronic components are of good quality. Yamaha, Denon, Integra, etc are not all hand made either, but they generally last for decades regardless of how cheap they sell for or in what stores. You can rest assured whether buying a $300 or $3000 Denon or Yamaha receiver that it will outlive your use for it, and these assembly line pieces often outlive hand made, exotic audio equipment.

Best Buy even sells Pioneer Elite now. In a lot of markets where the big box store is the only store in town, high end gear is starting to pop up just so it can get shelf space in a market. The distribution channel has no bearing on quality.

I'm not defending Onkyo per se...if this is a problem they haven't fixed then they should be criticized for it, but painting all big box store products as somehow being inferior quality is just not true anymore. Years back I can remember Onkyo taking a beating in the PR department but generally over the last 10 years or so Onkyo home theater receivers have been very reliable, with low failure rates and very few complaints. I'm not going to write them off because 1 model might have had a problem that appears to have been resolved in later production runs.

I'm not 100% sure if it's still the case, but a few years back there was some overlap in the Onkyo and Integra model lines, much like the Pioneer Elite/Pioneer lines had identical products. Is that still the case?

It never was the case.
I sat with a friend and bought an Integra without looking at much else.
My friend was very upset at losing his B&W francise, and the Integra wasn't much more than a comparable Onkyo.
But I did wind up at CC, comparing the matching model to my 7.4.
And I would have bought the Onky but not at what they are charging for it.
The Onkyo was just not as smooth a product, seemed a little more plasticky.
The rear jacks werent gold plate, and pre-pro stuff like 12v triggers was absent.
Obviously its like beer, Miller is from the top of the vat, Milwalkies best is from the bottom.
I don't regret the extra cash a bit BTW.
The Integra is just a bit more "refined", and I think this is for those whose taste is
just a tad better than mass market.
I have also heard that Integra is a higher end type Onkyo for HT installers:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

The RX-V is not available at "B&W stores".
He means B&M stores right? I know what a B&M store is, but what do the letters stand for?

[frenchmon]

It never was the case.
I sat with a friend and bought an Integra without looking at much else.
My friend was very upset at losing his B&W francise, and the Integra wasn't much more than a comparable Onkyo.
But I did wind up at CC, comparing the matching model to my 7.4.
And I would have bought the Onky but not at what they are charging for it.
The Onkyo was just not as smooth a product, seemed a little more plasticky.
The rear jacks werent gold plate, and pre-pro stuff like 12v triggers was absent.
Obviously its like beer, Miller is from the top of the vat, Milwalkies best is from the bottom.
I don't regret the extra cash a bit BTW.
The Integra is just a bit more "refined", and I think this is for those whose taste is
just a tad better than mass market.
I have also heard that Integra is a higher end type Onkyo for HT installers:1:


And that's my point. IF you want quality, you have to pay for it. The Integra is a higher model with better quality components all around in and out.

. But I must also say, that some of the stuff at the big box stores, but not much, are putting quality where they need it to keep the cost of warrenty issues down. You may get a few quality components inside it where it was needed, but you still get that same old plastic knob or button on the outside. This can be seen with the Pioneer line where they did have problems with their non-Elite series a few years ago.

Why sell a product with faulty parts if you spend your profits in replacing parts or product. Manufactures are not stupid. They have to find a way to keep warrenty and repair issues down to keep the profit margin and reputation up. That Pioneer that has a few quality components now has a slight price increase as well. But its still not in the same class as the Pioneer Elite series which has quality inside and out and looks more "mature and polished" than the regular Pioneer. Thats why I don't believe the Marketing hype by Yamaha that the two lines are identical. It does not add up.

frenchmon

[GMichael]

He means B&M stores right? I know what a B&M store is, but what do the letters stand for?

Brick & Mortar.

[GMichael]

And that's my point. IF you want quality, you have to pay for it. The Integra is a higher model with better quality components all around in and out.

. But I must also say, that some of the stuff at the big box stores, but not much, are putting quality where they need it to keep the cost of warrenty issues down. You may get a few quality components inside it where it was needed, but you still get that same old plastic knob or button on the outside. This can be seen with the Pioneer line where they did have problems with their non-Elite series a few years ago.

Why sell a product with faulty parts if you spend your profits in replacing parts or product. Manufactures are not stupid. They have to find a way to keep warrenty and repair issues down to keep the profit margin and reputation up. That Pioneer that has a few quality components now has a slight price increase as well. But its still not in the same class as the Pioneer Elite series which has quality inside and out and looks more "mature and polished" than the regular Pioneer. Thats why I don't believe the Marketing hype by Yamaha that the two lines are identical. It does not add up.

frenchmon

I know people who have had the two Yamaha lines disassembled and compared them piece by piece.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Sorry Rich. I don't have the answers to your latest questions. But I do know, and its a fact that many who manufacture the A/V products we buy don't all ways use the better parts when they assemble. Many of the components are cheap. You can bet that an A/V reciever that cost $99.00 has the cheap stuff within. If you want quality, you have to pay for it. Is it all marketing speak or hype? I don't think so. At least I hope not...if so we have all been hood winked.
Please feel free to let me know if I'm coming across as attacking your POV frenchmon...

I'd say the receiver's feature set has as much to do with the product's price as the quality of it's components. The problem I have when I see "hand selected" is... are manufacturers trying to make us draw a mental image where there are people with white coats and hats standing next to a conveyor belt with resistors and capacitors flowing by, and they only pick out the brightest and shiniest of the bunch, then hand solder them to the glitziest looking PC boards? (How my doing so far RL?) We're all aware that passive components are mass produced. Some have tighter tolerances than others, and they're usually marked as such and priced accordingly. One way to measure a capacitor's value is with test equipment such as an HP 4284A Precision LCR meter. We use one here at work. It measures with very fine granularity and is calibrated yearly.

I was looking at an Intregra DTR 7.8 receiver before I decided on the Yamaha, but I was never able to audition one anywhere around my area. In the only specialty store that I was able to look at one, they didn't have a room set up with any Integra which was very dissapointing. They had, IIRC four different models on a rack, and ya know what, when I spun the volume knob on each one just for tactile input, with every single one the knob wobbled like it was out-of-round. Don't know what that was all about but it didn't seem to reinforce the "hand selected" claim.


I never knew that Panasonic made all their componets.
Here ya go...
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/79794-cap-1uf-16v-ceramic-y5v-0402-ecj-0ef1c104z.html


I do know that Paradigm Speaker Company makes all of their own components they put in their speakers. Thats why they can sell that good quality of speaker below other name brand speakers in the same class who purchase parts for their speakers.. I suppose if other A/V companies made all of their own components and hand selected the ones they put in them, then the cost would be down a greater margin, but we see thats not the case with most quality A/V equipment. Bryson, Rotel, Marantz, Integra, Yammies RX , Pioneer Elite, Classe, Arcam, Moon, Krell and the likes aint cheap....they make you pay a pretty penny for the quality hand selected parts. I do remember reading some place years ago about a buyer from a A/V company going to inspect componets before buying them, to get quality parts.

frenchmon
Speakers are much less complicated than today's receivers, so I don't see a legitimate comparison there. I agree that the companies products you named above aren't cheap, and they do make quality equipment (as far as I've been told or have read), but again, I have a problem with the marketing terms I see being thrown around. Maybe the "inspector" has a meter in his "hand" when he's "selecting" the parts. I hope so.

[frenchmon]

I know people who have had the two Yamaha lines disassembled and compared them piece by piece.

So how did they know which one had the better parts? Either they both had the same old cheap components or they both had the quality parts. And how would they know what to look for? What was the plumb line? So heres the bigger question...why do the market the same model in two different ways? I think I will be taking a trip to Best Buy today to take a look at both Models. The RX model will be in Magnolia, and the HTR will be out front.

frenchmon

[GMichael]

He means B&M stores right? I know what a B&M store is, but what do the letters stand for?

Huh? I answered this question a few minutes ago. Where did my post go?
Anyway Rich, it's Brick and Mortar.

[GMichael]

Huh? I answered this question a few minutes ago. Where did my post go?
Anyway Rich, it's Brick and Mortar.

Now it's back. WTF? Is this the Twilight Zone now?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Everything okay GM? :crazy:

[frenchmon]

Please feel free to let me know if I'm coming across as attacking your POV frenchmon...

I'd say the receiver's feature set has as much to do with the product's price as the quality of it's components. The problem I have when I see "hand selected" is... are manufacturers trying to make us draw a mental image where there are people with white coats and hats standing next to a conveyor belt with resistors and capacitors flowing by, and they only pick out the brightest and shiniest of the bunch, then hand solder them to the glitziest looking PC boards? (How my doing so far RL?) We're all aware that passive components are mass produced. Some have tighter tolerances than others, and they're usually marked as such and priced accordingly. One way to measure a capacitor's value is with test equipment such as an HP 4284A Precision LCR meter. We use one here at work. It measures with very fine granularity and is calibrated yearly.

I was looking at an Intregra DTR 7.8 receiver before I decided on the Yamaha, but I was never able to audition one anywhere around my area. In the only specialty store that I was able to look at one, they didn't have a room set up with any Integra which was very dissapointing. They had, IIRC four different models on a rack, and ya know what, when I spun the volume knob on each one just for tactile input, with every single one the knob wobbled like it was out-of-round. Don't know what that was all about but it didn't seem to reinforce the "hand selected" claim.


Here ya go...
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/79794-cap-1uf-16v-ceramic-y5v-0402-ecj-0ef1c104z.html


Speakers are much less complicated than today's receivers, so I don't see a legitimate comparison there. I agree that the companies products you named above aren't cheap, and they do make quality equipment (as far as I've been told or have read), but again, I have a problem with the marketing terms I see being thrown around. Maybe the "inspector" has a meter in his "hand" when he's "selecting" the parts. I hope so.


Naw...its nice to have a civil conversation with those who have a different perspective. You have a very good perspective and it helps me to see where I could be wrong. Iron sharpens Iron.

I too agree that the feature set has a lots to do with it in some cases. Onkyo gives a lots of features but the price is low compared to other brands who offer the same features. And you know Onkyo is not eating the cost. They are passing the savings on to the consumer. I think manufactures are letting us know that quality parts that have been inspected goes into their product rather than just any old part. Now how they do it is beyond me. I think before they buy, they inspect the components some way.

I know what you mean by the knob on the Integra. We all know what we like in a product. I hate the way some of the knobs feel on some of these products. I love the way a Marantz knob feels...nice and stiff. I do like Marants because nothing looks cheap and I know the quality is there. thats not to say they don't have lemons...all brands have their lemons. I even hate the way the knob felt on the Elites. But hey you can bet that the Integra is better quality than the Onkyo. For what its worth, I have never seen any problems or even heard of any problems from the Yammie at all. I do know that I have seen some that looked cheap and I have seen some that looked like quality. I do think the sound of them is a little bright for my taste. But its a good product in my opinion.

frenchmon

[GMichael]

So how did they know which one had the better parts? Either they both had the same old cheap components or they both had the quality parts. And how would they know what to look for? What was the plumb line? So heres the bigger question...why do the market the same model in two different ways? I think I will be taking a trip to Best Buy today to take a look at both Models. The RX model will be in Magnolia, and the HTR will be out front.

frenchmon

They stated that they tested most of the components and came up with similar results.
As far as why they would market in two ways? Some people are willing to pay more to have something different (better?) than the masses. Why not take advantage of that? One line sells at high qty's with lower margins while the other sells lower qty's at higher margins. But now they are reaching both demographics and maximizing their market share.

I drive an Acura CL. It's the same d'm thing as a Honda Accord. The tires are a little bigger and there are a couple of extra sway bars, but other than that it's the same car for more money. (I just got a great deal on it)

[GMichael]

Everything okay GM? :crazy:

I think the LOST thread is somehow intersecting with this one.
:blush2:

[GMichael]

Back to the Onkyo.

I have read that the popping happens the most when bitstreaming DTS MA.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620

[Rich-n-Texas]

I read on AVS that the Yamaha 1800/3800's were also having issues with a HD audio format. Forget which one though. I blame the whole problem on the HDMI spec consortium. It's all about greed afterall.

[L.J.]

Yet another reason why you don't need HD decoding in your AVR :hand:

[frenchmon]

They stated that they tested most of the components and came up with similar results.
As far as why they would market in two ways? Some people are willing to pay more to have something different (better?) than the masses. Why not take advantage of that? One line sells at high qty's with lower margins while the other sells lower qty's at higher margins. But now they are reaching both demographics and maximizing their market share.

I drive an Acura CL. It's the same d'm thing as a Honda Accord. The tires are a little bigger and there are a couple of extra sway bars, but other than that it's the same car for more money. (I just got a great deal on it)

We bought a Toyota. Its the same as the Lexus, but the Lexus does have stnadard upgrades that are not avalible on the Toyota.And some of the things on the dash board of the Lexus where of better quality. There is a difference. But I see your point.

frenchmon

[pixelthis]

One thing that hasnt been mentioned here is simplicity and clean design.
The Integra just looked better, and gold plate on the plugs alone were worth the extra.
I dont like a lot of gimmicks, knobs, crap festooned all over a piece of gear, it just
goes to show a lack of concern that could apply to the more important aspects like the circuittry, build q, parts, etc.
\This is one thing I like about high end audio gear, an integrated amp with a volume control,
and a knob to select the input source, a power button and maybe a headphone jack,
what else do you need?
True a HT RECEIVER is complicated but (B&K ?) a few back created a receiver
that was very clean using advanced control logic, like push a select button for a function and two more for up/down.
This was an HT receiver and had like ten buttons and knobs, very clean:1:

[L.J.]

One thing that hasnt been mentioned here is simplicity and clean design.
The Integra just looked better, and gold plate on the plugs alone were worth the extra.
I dont like a lot of gimmicks, knobs, crap festooned all over a piece of gear, it just
goes to show a lack of concern that could apply to the more important aspects like the circuittry, build q, parts, etc.
\This is one thing I like about high end audio gear, an integrated amp with a volume control,
and a knob to select the input source, a power button and maybe a headphone jack,
what else do you need?
True a HT RECEIVER is complicated but (B&K ?) a few back created a receiver
that was very clean using advanced control logic, like push a select button for a function and two more for up/down.
This was an HT receiver and had like ten buttons and knobs, very clean:1:

I have to agree with that. This was one of my attractions to the 2700.

[GMichael]

I have to agree with that. This was one of my attractions to the 2700.

Ditto,

The RX-V line does have a much cleaner look than the HTR line. It's even cooler when you put it pure direct mode. All the lights go out except the one little blue one.

[kexodusc]

Ditto,

The RX-V line does have a much cleaner look than the HTR line. It's even cooler when you put it pure direct mode. All the lights go out except the one little blue one.
How so? The front faceplate? That was kind of cool, hid all the stuff. Only thing I miss from the RX-V1400. The bigger buttons are nice too though when you have power amps and actually have to get up off your but and turn everything on with your hand.
The smaller RX-Vmodels have all the same buttons smeared across the front too. And the HTR's still have the blue light for Pure Direct though.

The new HTR-6190 looks just like the 1800 to me though, maybe the cosmetic differences are disappearing again?:
http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receivers/2007_models/HTR6190_Brochure.pdf
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558291

[L.J.]

How so? The front faceplate? That was kind of cool, hid all the stuff. Only thing I miss from the RX-V1400. The bigger buttons are nice too though when you have power amps and actually have to get up off your but and turn everything on with your hand.
The smaller RX-Vmodels have all the same buttons smeared across the front too. And the HTR's still have the blue light for Pure Direct though.

The new HTR-6190 looks just like the 1800 to me though, maybe the cosmetic differences are disappearing again?:
http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receivers/2007_models/HTR6190_Brochure.pdf
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558291

No 12v trigger. When I do get a amp, it needs to have auto turn on....my wife would kill me, especially since we have both been spoiled by the 880.

[GMichael]

How so? The front faceplate? That was kind of cool, hid all the stuff. Only thing I miss from the RX-V1400. The bigger buttons are nice too though when you have power amps and actually have to get up off your but and turn everything on with your hand.
The smaller RX-Vmodels have all the same buttons smeared across the front too. And the HTR's still have the blue light for Pure Direct though.

The new HTR-6190 looks just like the 1800 to me though, maybe the cosmetic differences are disappearing again?:
http://www.yamaha.ca/av/PDFs/Receivers/2007_models/HTR6190_Brochure.pdf
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=558291

Yeah, it looks like the HTR's got a facelift. Cool.

[pixelthis]

Ditto,

The RX-V line does have a much cleaner look than the HTR line. It's even cooler when you put it pure direct mode. All the lights go out except the one little blue one.

Thids is why I went with an rxv instead of an HTR.
My Integra is teh same, a red and a blue light in pure audio mode:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Pure Audio mode is way overrated. :biggrin5:

[f0rge]

Yet another reason why you don't need HD decoding in your AVR :hand:

hell i bought it and i cant even use it...bollocks...

[frenchmon]

Pure Audio mode is way overrated. :biggrin5:

Why doyou say that?

frenchmon

[f0rge]

No 12v trigger. When I do get a amp, it needs to have auto turn on....my wife would kill me, especially since we have both been spoiled by the 880.

forget that, just leave it on 24/7, that way the caps are always charged and ready to go.

i didn't think people ever turned off amps, i definitely didn't.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Why doyou say that?

frenchmon
Because I'm trying to be a smartass, just like GM. :smilewinkgrin:

[GMichael]

Because I'm trying to be a smartass, just like GM. :smilewinkgrin:

Keep working at at.:shocked:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Keep working at at.:shocked:
He!!, all I have to do is adopt pix's flair for the sarcastic, and you'll be running away with your tail between your legs. :yesnod:

[GMichael]

He!!, all I have to do is adopt pix's flair for the sarcastic, and you'll be running away with your tail between your legs. :yesnod:

Like I run from him at all?

Yogi? Take care of Rich for me.:yikes:

[pixelthis]

He!!, all I have to do is adopt pix's flair for the sarcastic, and you'll be running away with your tail between your legs. :yesnod:

I doubt he can fit that tail in a barcolounger, much less between his legs.
And I am a southerner, a smart mouth isn't a "flair", its a way of life:1:

[GMichael]

I doubt he can fit that tail in a barcolounger, much less between his legs.

I have an extra wide lounger. My tail fits in it just fine. But please, stop thinking about my tail so much. It makes me feel a little.... violated.


And I am a southerner, a smart mouth isn't a "flair", its a way of life:1:

So Southerners and Yankees DO have one thing in common.:idea:

[Rich-n-Texas]

I agree GM. Especially New Yorkers! :biggrin5:

[GMichael]

I agree GM. Especially New Yorkers! :biggrin5:

Jersery boys are just wannabe New Yorkers.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Glad I grew up in SOUTH Jersey. Entirely different culture...

[GMichael]

Oh, you're from the south. I see now. The land of sand. After digging up about a billion rocks from our yard, I wish I was from south Jersey too.

[pixelthis]

Glad I grew up in SOUTH Jersey. Entirely different culture...

So thats why you keep saying you're a "southerner".
Just like the guy who proclaimed he too was a "southerner" and was actually from south America.
And rest easy GM, the only time I think about your "rear" is when I want to throw up
some bad chow.
Its just that ass jokes are the coin of the comedic realm.:1;

[pioneer-man]

from what i have learned is that the poping sound is a chip of some kind, i think the problem comes into play when you are watching blu-ray with DDtrueHD, I THINK

[GMichael]

from what i have learned is that the poping sound is a chip of some kind, i think the problem comes into play when you are watching blu-ray with DDtrueHD, I THINK
It seems to have something to do with when you are bitstreaming (or not). Check this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620&highlight=onkyo

[L.J.]

It seems to have something to do with when you are bitstreaming (or not). Check this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008620&highlight=onkyo

Actually, I think that is a completely different problem. Sad, just very sad :(

[GMichael]

Actually, I think that is a completely different problem. Sad, just very sad :(

BFD...

[L.J.]

What the heck is BFD?

[GMichael]

Actually, I think that is a completely different problem. Sad, just very sad :(

a BFD comes first for me anyhow. The problem may be gone when I'm ready to buy.

[L.J.]

a BFD comes first for me anyhow. The problem may be gone when I'm ready to buy.

I take it your gonna stick with Yammie....1800/3800


Should be fine with your PS3....no bitstreaming happening there. Too bad there is so much confusion and issues going on with HDMI.

[GMichael]

I take it your gonna stick with Yammie....1800/3800


Should be fine with your PS3....no bitstreaming happening there. Too bad there is so much confusion and issues going on with HDMI.

We'll see when the time comes. Who knows, Bye time I'm ready to buy, there may be decently priced separates available with HDMI. If not, then I have been very happy with Yamaha so far. I'd have to find something that really knocks my socks off to switch.

[L.J.]

We'll see when the time comes. Who knows, Bye time I'm ready to buy, there may be decently priced separates available with HDMI. If not, then I have been very happy with Yamaha so far. I'd have to find something that really knocks my socks off to switch.

Emotiva got something coming out in June.

Peep this thing out (http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/gtvproduct.jsp?prod_id=5277)......HDMI in, 8 channels of analog out. Interesting. This would be great for PS3 owners with older gear. If it works like it says it does.

"The GefenTV Home Theater Audio Processor takes one HDMI source, converts the digital audio to 8 channels of stereo audio, and processes the resultant audio to meet Surround Sound format requirements."

[GMichael]

Emotiva got something coming out in June.

Peep this thing out (http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/gtvproduct.jsp?prod_id=5277)......HDMI in, 8 channels of analog out. Interesting. This would be great for PS3 owners with older gear. If it works like it says it does.

"The GefenTV Home Theater Audio Processor takes one HDMI source, converts the digital audio to 8 channels of stereo audio, and processes the resultant audio to meet Surround Sound format requirements."

I'll wait to see if they got the bugs worked out. Their last generation processors had some issues. If they've worked those out, then they will be high on my list.
That converter looks nice though. May have to peep some more. (no HD audio though)

[Rich-n-Texas]

What the heck is BFD?
Big Frickin' Deal :ihih:

[Rich-n-Texas]

We'll see when the time comes. Who knows, Bye time I'm ready to buy, there may be decently priced separates available with HDMI. If not, then I have been very happy with Yamaha so far. I'd have to find something that really knocks my socks off to switch.
Only pix can predict the future. You may want to consult with him on that.

[GMichael]

Only pix can predict the future. You may want to consult with him on that.

He would just predict that I'm stupid as he!! and that I'll never learn.

[L.J.]

I'll wait to see if they got the bugs worked out. Their last generation processors had some issues. If they've worked those out, then they will be high on my list.
That converter looks nice though. May have to peep some more. (no HD audio though)

Yeah but the HD audio will already be decoded and output as PCM by the PS3. This thing (I think) will do the same thing your AVR needs to do to the signal. Convert it to analog for amplification, right? Only problems I see are 1. Bass management - your AVR would need to be able to apply bass management to mc analog signals. 2. Surround proc. - your AVR would need to be able to apply something like PLIIx to mc analog if you have a 7.1 setup. Most BR are in 5.1.

Well, I probably just talked a few people out of getting this thing because most AVR's (as far as I know) can't do either. But I may be off by a mile.....somebody please correct me if I'm wrong :hand:

Kex, SirT......where you at homies?

[pixelthis]

He would just predict that I'm stupid as he!! and that I'll never learn.


THATS THE WAY YOU ARE NOW

The "prediction " is that you will be stupid as hell and you will
never learn

[pixelthis]

Only pix can predict the future. You may want to consult with him on that.


Darn tootin.
And the "prediction" is that even toasters will have HDMI in the future.

As for you...
I see an old man, older than dirt, his hands and feet strapped to a railroad
crosstie, and people are carrying him, people with torches , MAD people
where are they taking him?
Whats that sign ahead ?
O
OKA...
OKAHOLMA STATE LINE :1:

[kexodusc]

Yeah but the HD audio will already be decoded and output as PCM by the PS3. This thing (I think) will do the same thing your AVR needs to do to the signal. Convert it to analog for amplification, right? Only problems I see are 1. Bass management - your AVR would need to be able to apply bass management to mc analog signals. 2. Surround proc. - your AVR would need to be able to apply something like PLIIx to mc analog if you have a 7.1 setup. Most BR are in 5.1.

Well, I probably just talked a few people out of getting this thing because most AVR's (as far as I know) can't do either. But I may be off by a mile.....somebody please correct me if I'm wrong :hand:

Kex, SirT......where you at homies?

This product is a bit weird.

I could be way off, but that Emotiva thing looks like a $400 step in the wrong direction dudes. If you're going to drop $400 to "undo" the convenience of 1 HDMI cable, why not just buy a $400 BluRay player with analog outputs that does all the new decoding, OR spend $400 - $500 more and get a new bleeding edge receiver with all the bells and whistles? By the time you pawned your current receiver, it'd probably be less than that.

Also, is this Emotiva thing capable of supporting the high bitrates and bandwidth of the new Dolby/DTS/uncompressed formats, or is the PCM signal going to be too much for it, and down-graded somehow? Not sure just by the website.

Even more baffling is why they thought to include a 20 watt/channel amp in the thing? That's going to be not enough for just about everyone unless someone has a 7.1 system now with NO receiver ?
20 watts isn't enough for people who'd probably consider something like this - and for those that could get away with 20 watts, $400 on a modern receiver is probably money better spent.

My reciever will apply level adjustments to the multi-channel inputs, but it doesn't apply PL IIx, or any DSP's. I'm not sure if it bass management is included or not? It's been so long since I set it up.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Darn tootin.
And the "prediction" is that even toasters will have HDMI in the future.

As for you...
I see an old man, older than dirt, his hands and feet strapped to a railroad
crosstie, and people are carrying him, people with torches , MAD people
where are they taking him?
Whats that sign ahead ?
O
OKA...
OKAHOLMA STATE LINE :1:
This post makes me wonder who Uma's pointing that gun at.

[GMichael]

THATS THE WAY YOU ARE NOW

The "prediction " is that you will be stupid as hell and you will
never learn

Thanks. But please give me credit for being half right. The "I'll" in my statement stood for "I will". So I was right with my tense there.
Anyway, thanks again.

[L.J.]

This product is a bit weird.

I could be way off, but that Emotiva thing looks like a $400 step in the wrong direction dudes. If you're going to drop $400 to "undo" the convenience of 1 HDMI cable, why not just buy a $400 BluRay player with analog outputs that does all the new decoding, OR spend $400 - $500 more and get a new bleeding edge receiver with all the bells and whistles? By the time you pawned your current receiver, it'd probably be less than that.

Also, is this Emotiva thing capable of supporting the high bitrates and bandwidth of the new Dolby/DTS/uncompressed formats, or is the PCM signal going to be too much for it, and down-graded somehow? Not sure just by the website.

Even more baffling is why they thought to include a 20 watt/channel amp in the thing? That's going to be not enough for just about everyone unless someone has a 7.1 system now with NO receiver ?
20 watts isn't enough for people who'd probably consider something like this - and for those that could get away with 20 watts, $400 on a modern receiver is probably money better spent.


Yeah this is what I was thinking. Great points I didn't catch too. Way to much money. Not much info up either but according to AVS members it only supports HDMI 1.1/MCPCM. I kinda see it as a good idea but at the same time, you make some very good points. Should be interesting to read peoples comments on it. It's not from Emotiva though it's Gefen. Sorry for the confusion.

Emotiva is suppose to have a pre/pro for $699 MSRP out in early June. Anybody got any thoughts on this......pretty cheap :confused5: Nobody else got anything close to this price. Seems interesting enough. Here's some info from their forums:


Here is the time line based on the latest info:


Early April we receive the final code set and chips from Cirrus. Advance prototypes should be finished in 10 days to 2 weeks after the chip delivery. Approvals from Dolby and DTS will be ongoing during final testing which should take roughly 2 to 3 weeks. Once it is fully tested and has all approvals production can begin and will take 7 to 10 days. Then it will take about 3 weeks by fast boat to get them here (yes, believe it or not the fast boat takes 3 weeks). Once it arrives in port then we have another 3 days for customs approval and 7 days by overland carrier to our warehouse. So the bottom line is we now expect to ship them June. I know, I know, I feel the same way, but for those who are waiting let me give you some info on what you will get. 4) HDMI inputs and 1) HDMI output. 4) each composite and s-video inputs, 3) component inputs and all will be scaled and set out over HDMI at whatever resolution you want up to 1080p. It also has DVI and VGA inputs which will be scaled and piped out the HDMI as well. Full color graphical OSD on HDMI. Auto room correction with User definable EQs. 4) analog audio inputs (not counting the 7.1 analog input), 4) coaxial inputs, 3) optical inputs and both coax and optical digital audio outputs. You will also get a continuous 2 channel mix down of the audio on a fixed output level, as well as variable and independent Zone 2 output and an analog record output. It has a built in AM/FM tuner, trigger output, IR in and outputs as well as iPOD connectivity and USB for complete flash upgrades (no need to ever send it in for an update), and one last input for the included calibration microphone. The front panel as most of you have seen has a 2) line dot matrix display, the ever popular knob (with blue halo lighting) and a full quadrant control on the left hand side (also with blue halo lighting). The menu structure is deep and allows for assigning the inputs, selecting default modes per input. It will have all the latest and greatest HD formats including DTS-MA. I hope to have screen shots of the OSD and a full list of features very soon, so stay tuned.




My reciever will apply level adjustments to the multi-channel inputs, but it doesn't apply PL IIx, or any DSP's. I'm not sure if it bass management is included or not? It's been so long since I set it up.

Well since your on the subject of setup. Which do you guys prefer when you run the YPAO....Natural or Flat??

[GMichael]

Yeah this is what I was thinking. Great points I didn't catch too. Way to much money. Not much info up either but according to AVS members it only supports HDMI 1.1/MCPCM. I kinda see it as a good idea but at the same time, you make some very good points. Should be interesting to read peoples comments on it. It's not from Emotiva though it's Gefen. Sorry for the confusion.

Emotiva is suppose to have a pre/pro for $699 MSRP out in early June. Anybody got any thoughts on this......pretty cheap :confused5: Nobody else got anything close to this price. Seems interesting enough. Here's some info from their forums:

.



.

Well since your on the subject of setup. Which do you guys prefer when you run the YPAO....Natural or Flat??

Looks like a nice upgrade from their current model. Hopefully they've learned from last years model and worked out the bugs.
I read nothing but good reviews on their amps.

[L.J.]

What was thread about again :idea:

Anyways, did you goes go with the Natural or Flat setting on the YPAO????

[Rich-n-Texas]

I don't understand the question. I didn't know you had a choice.

[GMichael]

What was thread about again :idea:

Anyways, did you goes go with the Natural or Flat setting on the YPAO????

I think I used Flat, but it was a long time ago. It was the one that put emphasis on the two front mains. Then I saved it and have tweeked it.

[kexodusc]

Emotiva is suppose to have a pre/pro for $699 MSRP out in early June. Anybody got any thoughts on this......pretty cheap :confused5: Nobody else got anything close to this price. Seems interesting enough.

Now THAT might be interesting...$700 is an attractive price point for a loaded pre-pro like that to a guy that has a few power amps. Though I suspect I'd order a 5-channel/7-channel amp soon enough anyway.
Hmmm.
I'm still torn on their stuff though - people that have it seem to like it, but then I see the odd not so nice review.
I've got until August - so hopefully there'll be some comments on this. It's definitely on the short list with the RX-V1800!
[/quote]
Well since your on the subject of setup. Which do you guys prefer when you run the YPAO....Natural or Flat??[/QUOTE]
Flat.
It's sorta counter-intuitive to use room EQ-ing to optomize your speakers, then introduce a deliberate roll-off of the highs, but personal preference is always the way to go, so whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Yammies measure ruler flat - as in no coloration or alteration of the signal - not like they used to be, mind you. I know some H/K's and Denons are exaggerated a bit for that "warm" sound some people like. Not sure if that's still the case though, every time I compare Denon's and Yammies they sound the same - H/K is still a bit different.

Some people interpret flat/natural as "too bright". That's fine, I guess if you want to roll the highs a bit because you're sensitive to them or whatever. Speakers probably have some say in the matter too - if they're a bit on the treble side of things.

My personal feeling is if everything in your system is transparent and without coloration of alteration of the source, then flat is optimal. That's what I strive for anyway. YMMV.

[L.J.]

Now THAT might be interesting...$700 is an attractive price point for a loaded pre-pro like that to a guy that has a few power amps. Though I suspect I'd order a 5-channel/7-channel amp soon enough anyway.
Hmmm.
I'm still torn on their stuff though - people that have it seem to like it, but then I see the odd not so nice review.
I've got until August - so hopefully there'll be some comments on this. It's definitely on the short list with the RX-V1800!.

Yeah, as GM said, I've read some negative feed back on their last model too. I better stop hitting up these forums...I haven't even had my Yammie for a year and I already got thoughts running in the back of my head.....BAD LJ. NO.



Flat.
It's sorta counter-intuitive to use room EQ-ing to optomize your speakers, then introduce a deliberate roll-off of the highs, but personal preference is always the way to go, so whatever floats your boat, I guess.

Yammies measure ruler flat - as in no coloration or alteration of the signal - not like they used to be, mind you. I know some H/K's and Denons are exaggerated a bit for that "warm" sound some people like. Not sure if that's still the case though, every time I compare Denon's and Yammies they sound the same - H/K is still a bit different.

Some people interpret flat/natural as "too bright". That's fine, I guess if you want to roll the highs a bit because you're sensitive to them or whatever. Speakers probably have some say in the matter too - if they're a bit on the treble side of things.

My personal feeling is if everything in your system is transparent and without coloration of alteration of the source, then flat is optimal. That's what I strive for anyway. YMMV.

Not sure what my first settings were but I liked the sound better without the YPAO. I wonder if I had it on natural. I'll have to try flat.

I don't know. I've never really trusted these auto EQ things for some reason.

[L.J.]

I don't understand the question. I didn't know you had a choice.

yeah you can go in before you run the setup and have it skip certain test and select which "curve" you want or whatever they call it.

[Rich-n-Texas]

...I better stop hitting up these forums...I haven't even had my Yammie for a year and I already got thoughts running in the back of my head.....BAD LJ. NO.
Yeah, okay. :rolleyes: He's talked me into buying a Harmony remote; I'm still way behind on the learning curve, a fancy shmancy receiver that's way past my level of comprehesion currently, and now he's got me on the fast track to a PS3. I'm going to sit down in front of my equipment wonna these days, push a remote button and my brain's gonna explode!!! :crazy:

[GMichael]

I don't know. I've never really trusted these auto EQ things for some reason.

They do everything else well, (distances & levels) but I don't like how the EQ settings turn out. Way too aggressive for me. I set everything to flat. Then cut a few peaks manually.

[GMichael]

Yeah, okay. :rolleyes: He's talked me into buying a Harmony remote; I'm still way behind on the learning curve, a fancy shmancy receiver that's way past my level of comprehesion currently, and now he's got me on the fast track to a PS3. I'm going to sit down in front of my equipment wonna these days, push a remote button and my brain's gonna explode!!! :crazy:

He's just trying to pass on the love after I talked him ito that sub.

[L.J.]

Yeah, okay. :rolleyes: He's talked me into buying a Harmony remote; I'm still way behind on the learning curve, a fancy shmancy receiver that's way past my level of comprehesion currently, and now he's got me on the fast track to a PS3. I'm going to sit down in front of my equipment wonna these days, push a remote button and my brain's gonna explode!!! :crazy:

What, you don't got the voice command up and runnin' yet :lol:

Come on man....all these fancy gadgets are suppose to make your life easier :cornut:

[Rich-n-Texas]

And my wallet emptier (word?)

One way to justify my nack for buying more gadgets before knowing how they work... Can you network game with PS3's? COD4 in multiplayer mode? Like you (or somebody) said, lots of people here now own PS3's, so that would make me feel a bit less guilty about building a gaming computer just to use a PS3 to eliminate you people in a blood and guts world, ya know? :ihih:

[L.J.]

And my wallet emptier (word?)

One way to justify my nack for buying more gadgets before knowing how they work... Can you network game with PS3's? COD4 in multiplayer mode? Like you (or somebody) said, lots of people here now own PS3's, so that would make me feel a bit less guilty about building a gaming computer just to use a PS3 to eliminate you people in a blood and guts world, ya know? :ihih:

Within the PSN network sure. You can go online with most games.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Do I recall reading that there's a fee to use the Playstation Network?

Oh, BTW thread starter, sorry for the hijacking. :biggrin5:

[L.J.]

Do I recall reading that there's a fee to use the Playstation Network?

Oh, BTW thread starter, sorry for the hijacking. :biggrin5:

Nope. No fees. Right now it's HD movie trailers, video/voice chats, emailing friends, downloadable games, videos, demos things like that. Something called Home (http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3home&thread.id=363) is on the way and eventually movie & music downloads.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hello? Is this Amazon.com? I'd like to purchase a PS3... NOW!!!

:incazzato: :incazzato: :incazzato:<== L.J.

[GMichael]

Hello? Is this Amazon.com? I'd like to purchase a PS3... NOW!!!

:incazzato: :incazzato: :incazzato:<== L.J.
Don't forget that you need a new sub. And an external amp.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I don't know, Kex talks like he may upgrade his amp as well as his receiver so maybe I'll hit him up for his Rotel... :ihih:

[GMichael]

I don't know, Kex talks like he may upgrade his amp as well as his receiver so maybe I'll hit him up for his Rotel... :ihih:

What about a BFD?

[L.J.]

What about a BFD?

Now, now GM one thing at a time......we don't want to give Rich a headache. He still needs to read the Harmony manual a few more times :p

[kexodusc]

I don't know, Kex talks like he may upgrade his amp as well as his receiver so maybe I'll hit him up for his Rotel... :ihih:
The Rotel isn't going anywhere. :)

I might have a few older amps that get decommissioned though.

[pixelthis]

Yeah, okay. :rolleyes: He's talked me into buying a Harmony remote; I'm still way behind on the learning curve, a fancy shmancy receiver that's way past my level of comprehesion currently, and now he's got me on the fast track to a PS3. I'm going to sit down in front of my equipment wonna these days, push a remote button and my brain's gonna explode!!! :crazy:


I hope you can appreciate just how hard I AM RESISTING THE URGE TO...
ARRRG:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

The Rotel isn't going anywhere. :)
Can't fault me for trying.

A PS3 I can justify since I have a TV that can handle the BR format, but until I've squeezed out all I can from an SQ standpoint with my receiver, I can't yet justify the BFD. Even though it's a very economical and effective solution, I feel the need to first be sure I understand and have tweaked my listening environment the best I can. :yesnod:

[Rich-n-Texas]

I hope you can appreciate just how hard I AM RESISTING THE URGE TO...
ARRRG:1:
Fire away pix. I can bust my ass with the best of 'em. :skep:

[L.J.]

What the.......he's allowed out of his cage before midnight now :D

[bobsticks]

I hope you can appreciate just how hard I AM RESISTING THE URGE TO...
ARRRG:1:

You should be commended. He just walked into a dozen or so comments that anything smarter than nine chickens on speed coulda nailed him with. Nice restraint.

[bobsticks]

Fire away pix. I can bust my ass with the best of 'em. :skep:

Given the nature of certain other threads on this forum are sure this is the way you want to phrase that and portray yourself? Aren't you in enough trouble already?

On a serious note, what's wrong with your sub?

[kexodusc]

I can't yet justify the BFD. Even though it's a very economical and effective solution, I feel the need to first be sure I understand and have tweaked my listening environment the best I can. :yesnod:
The BFD is a ridiculously good value addition to any system with a subwoofer. Unless you're room was designed by NASA chances are it'll introduce significant audible benefit.
Nothing wrong with your approach though. Keep learning and tinkering away.
I would probably upgrade to a PS3/BluRay player before adding a BFD. A source player is a ticket to new media titles. That's what it's all about, actually listening to music/watching movies.
After that, the BFD is probably the best bang for your buck in terms of simple, effective upgrades that make profound differences in sound quality.

Besides, GM has to get one first...what's he waiting for? :mad2:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Given the nature of certain other threads on this forum are sure this is the way you want to phrase that and portray yourself? Aren't you in enough trouble already?
Only you could make that connection sticks. Only you.


On a serious note, what's wrong with your sub?
Nothing wrong with the sub. Plenty wrong with the room acoustics. (Check sig for further information)

[GMichael]

Besides, GM has to get one first...what's he waiting for? :mad2:

$$$$$

[pixelthis]

You should be commended. He just walked into a dozen or so comments that anything smarter than nine chickens on speed coulda nailed him with. Nice restraint.


Not really.
It was just TOO easy , kinda like dynamiting fish.
In a goldfish pond:1:

[pixelthis]

What the.......he's allowed out of his cage before midnight now :D


ALL of the nurses went on spring break.
Dont know if I like this daylight stuff tho, too much ultraviolet:1: