Plasma Is Dead

[pixelthis]

Finally some REAL news, mainly that plasma TV, the dumbest way to create a video image , IS DEAD.
NOT QUITE YET, but the doctors are pulling the plug.

After spending FOUR billion on plasma producing factories Pioneer has thrown in the towel,
they will still market plasmas, they just wont be producing the screens.
A new generation of superthin LCD and the new OLED tech was cited as the reasons for the decision.
THE ARTICLE IS HERE:1:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

[diggity]

i dont think that was why pioneer ceased making screens. in australia here the problem i feel was their distribution. they were in nearly every store, from big box movers to high end distributors. they were in stores that carried unknown chinese brands, lg and the like. people like the picture, they know of the quality of screen, but when next door to it on the sales floor is an lg at 1/3 the price they didnt want to spend the money. as a consequence retailers began to heavily discount the panel. pioneer were getting pressured to reduce price.
in the end of the day, they couldnt compete against price. if they reduced their distributers i feel they wouldnt be in this situation

cheers: diggity

[blackraven]

Coming down the road are super thin plasma's as well! I just read a small article on them. I think Samsung is developing them.

[Groundbeef]

Coming down the road are super thin plasma's as well! I just read a small article on them. I think Samsung is developing them.

Are you DEAF? Pixel said plasma is DEAD. That means DEAD. No super thin, super DEAD. DEAD DEAD DEAD. No more DEAD. You didn't read what you though you did. It said plasma is DEAD.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Can't WAIT to see what Wooch has to say! :lol:

[Woochifer]

Hmmm, 11.4 million units sold last year doesn't look like a dead format to me. And the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Association (JEITA) just last month projected that plasma sales would increase to around 25 million units by 2012. Dead would imply that sales are near zero, and technological investment is at an end, which is not the case with plasma.

The only thing factual about this article is Pioneer getting out of manufacturing plasma panels, which is not surprising considering that they only produce plasma panels in the hundreds of thousands, while Samsung, LG, and Panasonic each manufacture plasma panels in the millions. Just about everything else in the article is speculation, as I'm sure you're aware. :rolleyes:

Pioneer's problem is that other manufacturers passed them technologically, while Pioneer maintained their higher price points. Panasonic's highly reviewed 1080p plasmas sell for less than Pioneer's 720p models. Pioneer's plasmas are well regarded for their black levels and color accuracy, but they lost on the spec sheet to other competing models while charging substantially higher prices. Subjectively, the Pioneers have always had top notch picture quality, but their advantage has narrowed as competitors have improved their picture quality.

[bobsticks]

Are you DEAF? Pixel said plasma is DEAD. That means DEAD. No super thin, super DEAD. DEAD DEAD DEAD. No more DEAD. You didn't read what you though you did. It said plasma is DEAD.

Things get super thin as they wither away and become DEAD.

[blackraven]

I think the Super thin plasma was something like 0.37ths of an inch if I'm not mistaken. I'll double check the article.

Just checked and it was 9mm thick and there is 25mm to an inch.

[oaqm]

Nine millimeters is .355 inches (as every pistolero knows), so your estimation of .37 is very very close.

[pixelthis]

Woochifer Hmmm, 11.4 million units sold last year doesn't look like a dead format to me. And the Japan Electronics and Information Technology Association (JEITA) just last month projected that plasma sales would increase to around 25 million units by 2012. Dead would imply that sales are near zero, and technological investment is at an end, which is not the case with plasma.


11.4 MILL IS JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET.
These guys are as wrong as you are



The only thing factual about this article is Pioneer getting out of manufacturing plasma panels, which is not surprising considering that they only produce plasma panels in the hundreds of thousands, while Samsung, LG, and Panasonic each manufacture plasma panels in the millions. Just about everything else in the article is speculation, as I'm sure you're aware. :rolleyes:

Not really, the competitive forces at play wont leave plasma with a market niche.
And its certainly NOT speculation that PIONEER is giving up a FOUR BILLION
dollar investment in four plasma screen factories.
In other words they are gettin out while the gettins good



Pioneer's problem is that other manufacturers passed them technologically, while Pioneer maintained their higher price points. Panasonic's highly reviewed 1080p plasmas sell for less than Pioneer's 720p models. Pioneer's plasmas are well regarded for their black levels and color accuracy, but they lost on the spec sheet to other competing models while charging substantially higher prices. Subjectively, the Pioneers have always had top notch picture quality, but their advantage has narrowed as competitors have improved their picture quality.


Their problem is the same as with other plasma makers...
PLASMA IS DEAD:1:

[pixelthis]

When developement along different tracks to do the same thing occurs a
kind of "shaking out" is the result.
WITH CARS IT WAS steam, electric, and the internal combustion engine(both deisel and gas).
IN THE RACE TO SUPPLANT the CRT there were several techiques ,
RPTV (tube, lcd, dlp, etc), Plasma, and later LCD.
Now the shakeout is occuring , RPTV was the first victim, now PLASMA is next.
The market some grew up in is an abberation, so many ways to create video images .
But there are advantages to having a few core ways of doing things.
So the future is going to be LCD and oled, and that is just the near future, eventually OLED will supplant LCD.
THIS is what the market has decided and the HT and audio enthusiast rides on a sea
of the mass market, at least now that we have a glimpse of the future we can start improving the breed.
Superflat LCD with external electrode flourescents is an example.
PLASMA is just too difficult to fabricate and use compared to cheap LCD.
but the good news, there will be a higher end of displays for the more discerning taste,
and now that there is one tech to focuse on that tech will get better faster:1:

[diggity]

irony is pioneer produced an ultra thin panel at the last c.e.s. they will still be around, they are getting panels from panasonic they tell me and tweaking them. which is what sony does with samsung panels. panasonic i hear has brought old panels from hitachi so they can release bigger lcd screens, they will be tweaking them as well. everyone is doing it. plasma is far from dead.

[Feanor]

Finally some REAL news, mainly that plasma TV, the dumbest way to create a video image , IS DEAD.
NOT QUITE YET, but the doctors are pulling the plug.

After spending FOUR billion on plasma producing factories Pioneer has thrown in the towel,
they will still market plasmas, they just wont be producing the screens.
A new generation of superthin LCD and the new OLED tech was cited as the reasons for the decision.
THE ARTICLE IS HERE:1:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

With any luck I'll be buying my first HDTV come the fall, and I was leaning to plazma for the blacker blacks and better colors. From what I had heard, burn-in and shorter life aren't the problems they used to be.

I'd heard of Pioneer's decision to get out of plazma production but figured it was really just another out-sourcing strategy. There's nothing new about major manufactures buying components from outside. If I got the facts right, (maybe I don't), LG makes LCD panels for a couple of majors.

I guess I've got the advantage of 6 months to watch and see what happens before I have to choose.

[Woochifer]

11.4 MILL IS JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET.
These guys are as wrong as you are

And 11.4 million does not equate to DEAD, so who's wrong now Mr "Scientist"?


Not really, the competitive forces at play wont leave plasma with a market niche.

If you're referring to OLED, that won't happen for years. And when alternative technologies like OLED finally reach viable price points, LCD would likely go down first, since most of their market share is in the smaller screen sizes.


And its certainly NOT speculation that PIONEER is giving up a FOUR BILLION
dollar investment in four plasma screen factories.
In other words they are gettin out while the gettins good

And all the while, Panasonic and Samsung have been investing in their plasma technologies, and maintaining a healthy margin in that segment. Pioneer's problem is that they overpaid for NEC's production facility (which at the time was providing Sony with plasma panels, and Pioneer's acquisition occured just as Sony exited the segment), and fell behind their competitors technologically. Pioneer bought NEC's production facility assuming that they could count on the outsource volume from Sony. Once Pioneer lost Sony, they had way too much Panasonic and Samsung don't have any of these issues, and their production volume is upwards of 10X greater than Pioneer's to begin with.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that Sharp recently took out an ownership stake in Pioneer. Think that doesn't have anything to do with this decision? Keep those crayons out, you might yet comprehend this game of connect-the-dots one of these days! :rolleyes:


Their problem is the same as with other plasma makers...

Wrong again. Panasonic and Samsung are doing just fine, and are primarily responsible for Pioneer's problems. Pioneer could not match their price points, and they've now erased Pioneer's picture quality advantage. Anything else to draw from that article is pure speculation.


PLASMA IS DEAD:1:

Like I said, 11.4 million in sales and a projected 25 million by 2012 doesn't square with any rational definition of DEAD. Of course, that's presuming that I'm dealing with a rational opinionator here! :dita:

[bobsticks]

Watch it Woochie, 15 years from now when plasmas are out of production Pixie will tell ya "I TOLD you so.:1: ".

[O'Shag]

For large screen (60" +) I prefer plasma to LCD overall. I saw an LG 70" plasma (native 1920x1080) at Best Buy playing a blu ray disc. Positively stunning picture. My Sony KDS R70XBR2 SXRD still kicks ass even though its now offically classed as an obsolete woolly mammoth (I only bought the thing a bloody year and a bit ago and it had just been released!). Then again my 40" Loewe Aconda CRT still puts many current sets to shame, and its from the cretacious period.

[pixelthis]

For large screen (60" +) I prefer plasma to LCD overall. I saw an LG 70" plasma (native 1920x1080) at Best Buy playing a blu ray disc. Positively stunning picture. My Sony KDS R70XBR2 SXRD still kicks ass even though its now offically classed as an obsolete woolly mammoth (I only bought the thing a bloody year and a bit ago and it had just been released!). Then again my 40" Loewe Aconda CRT still puts many current sets to shame, and its from the cretacious period.

A STORE IN TOWN USED TO SELL LOEWE, as a matter of fact thats where I bought my Integra, a friend almost bought a 40in loewe, the picture was very good:1:

[pixelthis]

And 11.4 million does not equate to DEAD, so who's wrong now Mr "Scientist"?

A friends brother drank himself to death, saw his best friend walk around headless for a few seconds while in NAM, that guy was DEAD.
If the market for something with the investment of billions that plasma has is a paltry
11.4 million start shopping for caskets



If you're referring to OLED, that won't happen for years. And when alternative technologies like OLED finally reach viable price points, LCD would likely go down first, since most of their market share is in the smaller screen sizes.


Its ALREADY happened, dillweed.
And since every cell fone in the world has oled it wont take long for OLED to catch on
and go down in price, it only took a few years for LCD prices to crash, and it cost more to make one than an OLED.
Theres talk of making OLED screens with bubblejet printers, and OLED paint that , when applied to a wall, will turn into an OLED screen.
You can roll an oled up and put it in a tube, small size is the market for mow but that
will change SOON



And all the while, Panasonic and Samsung have been investing in their plasma technologies, and maintaining a healthy margin in that segment. Pioneer's problem is that they overpaid for NEC's production facility (which at the time was providing Sony with plasma panels, and Pioneer's acquisition occured just as Sony exited the segment), and fell behind their competitors technologically. Pioneer bought NEC's production facility assuming that they could count on the outsource volume from Sony. Once Pioneer lost Sony, they had way too much Panasonic and Samsung don't have any of these issues, and their production volume is upwards of 10X greater than Pioneer's to begin with.

THEY HAVE WORSE "ISSUES".
Sony got out of plasma and others are getting out too, I'd get you some "crayons " if
you knew how to use them.
Sony is one of if not the biggest manufacturer od video displays and they aint touching Plasma, are you too stupid to understand why?



Plus, it doesn't hurt that Sharp recently took out an ownership stake in Pioneer. Think that doesn't have anything to do with this decision? Keep those crayons out, you might yet comprehend this game of connect-the-dots one of these days! :rolleyes:

THE ONLY THING TO DO WITH THIS DECISION IS OVERCAPACITY IN THE PLASMA MARKET.
The price is going down just to compete with LCD , which it cant do.
The only market niche is highq and the highq is a matter of opinion, and OLED and improvement in LCD, adding to the fact that LCD is more trouble free would be enough to kill Plasma, except that plasma IS ALREADY DEAD


Wrong again. Panasonic and Samsung are doing just fine, and are primarily responsible for Pioneer's problems. Pioneer could not match their price points, and they've now erased Pioneer's picture quality advantage. Anything else to draw from that article is pure speculation.

AND THEY ARE BLEEDING RED INK trying to keep their own "price points", and are next to drop plasma like a hot potato, just as soon as they can figure out how to without killing what little is left of the market, which is SHRINKING not growing


Like I said, 11.4 million in sales and a projected 25 million by 2012 doesn't square with any rational definition of DEAD. Of course, that's presuming that I'm dealing with a rational opinionator here! :dita:

I'm the one whos rational around here, you talk about "speculation" and then mention
a marketing BS lie ABOUT 25 MILLION BY 2012???:crazy:

I'll give you a more accurate "prediction" ACE, a projection of ZERO sales by 2012.
Why?
BECAUSE PLASMA IS DEAD:1:

[pixelthis]

heres a few articles for the clueless wooch to chaw on

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2112833,00.asp


http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/04/11/plasma-tv-sales-not-doing-so-good/


I can put this stuff up all day, its pretty common knowledge, except to the clueless
and terminally stupid:1:

[shokhead]

Gee, i belive everything is in decline as money being spent is abit short these days but you go ahead and read into that anyway you want.

[Ajani]

"Plasma is Dead"

Ummm... one question:

WHO CARES????

Does the death or life of plasma really affect consumers???

In the case of HD-DVD dying it screws consumers who own players, since it means no new movies will be released in their format (eventually)... so if they want HD quality movies they need to either download or get Blu-Ray... BUT since Plasma, LCD, RPTV, etc are all compatible with cable/dish/dvd/vhs/Wii/PS3/XBox 360/whatever, then how does its decrease in popularity affect owners???

IMHO, TV is one of the few places in the HT world, where the more alternative technologies there are - the better.... it just gives consumers more choices and more price ranges....

[Woochifer]

A friends brother drank himself to death, saw his best friend walk around headless for a few seconds while in NAM, that guy was DEAD.
If the market for something with the investment of billions that plasma has is a paltry
11.4 million start shopping for caskets

So, given that your brain already seems to be inactive, should we now consider you DEAD as well? :thumbsup:


Its ALREADY happened, dillweed.
And since every cell fone in the world has oled it wont take long for OLED to catch on
and go down in price, it only took a few years for LCD prices to crash, and it cost more to make one than an OLED.
Theres talk of making OLED screens with bubblejet printers, and OLED paint that , when applied to a wall, will turn into an OLED screen.

If Samsung is saying that OLED will take at least two more years before they can be introduced in large screen sizes (and presumably at higher prices than LCD and plasma), I'd say that OLED is not a market force in the HDTV market right now, or in the near future.

If you want to limit your TV viewing to puny 3" phone screens or that $2,500 Sony 11" model just so you can prove your OLED bona fides, be my guest.


THEY HAVE WORSE "ISSUES".
Sony got out of plasma and others are getting out too, I'd get you some "crayons " if
you knew how to use them.

Sony is one of if not the biggest manufacturer od video displays and they aint touching Plasma, are you too stupid to understand why?

Nice try, but we ain't playing horseshoes here. Sony got out of plasma because they relied entirely on outsource vendors, or do you not know that Panasonic and Samsung make their own plasma panels? No need to get me any crayons, since I can connect the dots just fine. You obviously still have cognitive challenges there. :lol:

If not for their joint venture arrangement with Samsung, Sony would be in a world of trouble in the flat panel market. Samsung operates shared and sole ownership facilities for both LCD and plasma, Sony does not have any independent capacity of their own. Samsung would seem to be a stronger market position here, and they are continuing to invest in plasma. I'm not even going to ask if you're too stupid to understand this, because I'm sure you'll come up with some other illogical rant in response.


THE ONLY THING TO DO WITH THIS DECISION IS OVERCAPACITY IN THE PLASMA MARKET.
The price is going down just to compete with LCD , which it cant do.

Overcapacity is industrywide, Einstein. It's not limited to Why do you think there's so much consolidation occurring throughout the display panel industry? Panasonic and Samsung, the top two plasma manufacturers, are doing just fine.


The only market niche is highq and the highq is a matter of opinion, and OLED and improvement in LCD, adding to the fact that LCD is more trouble free would be enough to kill Plasma, except that plasma IS ALREADY DEAD

So, by your logic, if OLED is going to take over the market years down the road, then we should also consider LCD already dead? Why not presume that yet another technology 20 years from now will knock OLED off of its annointed throne, and presume it dead before it even arrives? Hell, why not just say that we're all dead given that we'll all die within the next 70 or so years? That's the kind of pencilneck logic you're offering up here.


AND THEY ARE BLEEDING RED INK trying to keep their own "price points", and are next to drop plasma like a hot potato, just as soon as they can figure out how to without killing what little is left of the market, which is SHRINKING not growing

The overall market is growing. The only thing that's shrinking is plasma's market share, and that's entirely a price driven equation. Yet, plasma manufacturers have been able to maintain higher margins, whereas the LCD margins are in free fall. LCDs are selling in unit volume, but the profitability is shrinking.


I'm the one whos rational around here, you talk about "speculation" and then mention
a marketing BS lie ABOUT 25 MILLION BY 2012???:crazy:

A market projection by a reputable trade group is not a lie. You, on the other hand, are quite adept with the lying concept, so I have no idea how you missed that distinction here!

You, rational? That's actually funny, but sorry to report that funny isn't the same as rational... :lol:


I'll give you a more accurate "prediction" ACE, a projection of ZERO sales by 2012.
Why?
BECAUSE PLASMA IS DEAD:1:

Whatever Mr "Scientist" I'm sure if you were a doctor, you'd have quite a bedside manner. If a patient comes in with the hiccups or needs an allergy, you'd just order up a death certificate on the spot!

[O'Shag]

Would someone please explain to me why Plasma is bad? I understand that there were serious reliability problems several years ago, but I was under the impression those have long since been eradicated. eg screen burn in etc. It seems that just when they get a technology right after several years, the technology becomes obsolete?? The reason for my 'concern', is that many LCD displays I've seen don't look entirely convincing in terms of a natural picture. The contrast is off. The blacks are way over done and the picture starts looking like a cartoon in a sense. Does anyone else notice this? The latest 1920x1080 native rez plasmas look more realistic to me. This is one thing I love about my Loewe. The latest technologies will probably provide a bit more detail, but the CRT ends up looking more real to life - sort of like good tube amps vs whiz bang solid state amps if you get my meaning.

[JSE]

"Plasma is Dead"

Ummm... one question:

WHO CARES????

Does the death or life of plasma really affect consumers???

In the case of HD-DVD dying it screws consumers who own players, since it means no new movies will be released in their format (eventually)... so if they want HD quality movies they need to either download or get Blu-Ray... BUT since Plasma, LCD, RPTV, etc are all compatible with cable/dish/dvd/vhs/Wii/PS3/XBox 360/whatever, then how does its decrease in popularity affect owners???

IMHO, TV is one of the few places in the HT world, where the more alternative technologies there are - the better.... it just gives consumers more choices and more price ranges....

Well said. Who gives a rat's arse?

I have LCD that I am happy with. I don't care if they stop making LCDs tomorrow. Mine will still work fine.

Maybe I am wrong but I think Pixless was trolling. Nah, Pixless would never do that. Would he? :nono:

Pix, do we need to put you away in the closet where we have that old printer stored?

JSE

[GMichael]

Would someone please explain to me why Plasma is bad? I understand that there were serious reliability problems several years ago, but I was under the impression those have long since been eradicated. eg screen burn in etc. It seems that just when they get a technology right after several years, the technology becomes obsolete?? The reason for my 'concern', is that many LCD displays I've seen don't look entirely convincing in terms of a natural picture. The contrast is off. The blacks are way over done and the picture starts looking like a cartoon in a sense. Does anyone else notice this? The latest 1920x1080 native rez plasmas look more realistic to me. This is one thing I love about my Loewe. The latest technologies will probably provide a bit more detail, but the CRT ends up looking more real to life - sort of like good tube amps vs whiz bang solid state amps if you get my meaning.

Plasma is not bad at all. Pix just owns an LCD so therefore, plasma is evil. Plasma has a better picture quality than LCD but does have other drawbacks. You get to choose which means more to you. LCD on average uses less electric, has less glare, weighs less, and are brighter. Plasmas have better black level, richer colors, and better off center viewing. The price edge goes to LCD on anything under 50 inch. Plasma for anything over. Both are getting better with their short comings. Where one used to be way better at something in the past, they are now just a little better. Burn in and glare for plasmas are a thing of the past. Newer models are much better. Screen door effect and blurry movements for LCD is going bye bye as well. In the end, (or make that the next few years) LCD should sell more because of what they do better appeals to the masses more than the better PQ of a plasma.

[Woochifer]

Would someone please explain to me why Plasma is bad? I understand that there were serious reliability problems several years ago, but I was under the impression those have long since been eradicated. eg screen burn in etc. It seems that just when they get a technology right after several years, the technology becomes obsolete?? The reason for my 'concern', is that many LCD displays I've seen don't look entirely convincing in terms of a natural picture. The contrast is off. The blacks are way over done and the picture starts looking like a cartoon in a sense. Does anyone else notice this? The latest 1920x1080 native rez plasmas look more realistic to me. This is one thing I love about my Loewe. The latest technologies will probably provide a bit more detail, but the CRT ends up looking more real to life - sort of like good tube amps vs whiz bang solid state amps if you get my meaning.

Reason is because pixel relies on old information, and equates opinion pieces with fact.

I share your opinion of LCD. Both LCD and plasma have addressed their greatest weaknesses in the past year -- LCD has gone to LED backlighting and 120 Hz refresh rates to address weaknesses with black levels and reducing motion blur (though plasma still has an advantage with measured motion resolution), while plasma has added 1080p resolution and 1080p24 mode options (the reliability and burn in issues were resolved years ago). While LCD is now comparable in price with plasma in the screen sizes below 50", features like LED backlighting and 120 Hz refresh will still push the prices above plasma.

Among the HDTVs I've seen over the years, the CRT direct view models remain the best from an image quality standpoint, and they don't lose any picture quality when playing SD sources. But, consumers want larger screen sizes and don't want to deal with the bulk and weight of CRT, so that segment is now almost gone.

LCD and plasma are both direct view flat panel segment, but both approaches have tradeoffs. That's why I don't think plasma will go away until a technology with a more clearcut advantage can compete in the same price space.


Well said. Who gives a rat's arse?

I have LCD that I am happy with. I don't care if they stop making LCDs tomorrow. Mine will still work fine.

Yep, and that's a point that seems to have flown over his head. He bought his Vizio LCD on the cheap, and he's suddenly second-tier LCD fanboi extraordinaire!


Maybe I am wrong but I think Pixless was trolling. Nah, Pixless would never do that. Would he?

Pix, trolling?! Oh, but he sounds SSSSSOOOOO serious when talking about how he's never lost an argument with anyone on this board! :lol:


Pix, do we need to put you away in the closet where we have that old printer stored?

Nah, at least his trolling doesn't involve stealing other people's material! :cool: I can't think of anyone else who would write some of the inane nonsense that he posts.

[Smokey]

And 11.4 million does not equate to DEAD, so who's wrong now Mr "Scientist"? A friends brother drank himself to death, saw his best friend walk around headless for a few seconds while in NAM, that guy was DEAD.
If the market for something with the investment of billions that plasma has is a paltry
11.4 million start shopping for caskets



If you're referring to OLED, that won't happen for years. And when alternative technologies like OLED finally reach viable price points, LCD would likely go down first, since most of their market share is in the smaller screen sizes.


Its ALREADY happened, dillweed.
And since every cell fone in the world has oled it wont take long for OLED to catch on
and go down in price, it only took a few years for LCD prices to crash, and it cost more to make one than an OLED.
Theres talk of making OLED screens with bubblejet printers, and OLED paint that , when applied to a wall, will turn into an OLED screen.
You can roll an oled up and put it in a tube, small size is the market for mow but that
will change SOON


And all the while, Panasonic and Samsung have been investing in their plasma technologies, and maintaining a healthy margin in that segment. Pioneer's problem is that they overpaid for NEC's production facility (which at the time was providing Sony with plasma panels, and Pioneer's acquisition occured just as Sony exited the segment), and fell behind their competitors technologically. Pioneer bought NEC's production facility assuming that they could count on the outsource volume from Sony. Once Pioneer lost Sony, they had way too much Panasonic and Samsung don't have any of these issues, and their production volume is upwards of 10X greater than Pioneer's to begin with.


THEY HAVE WORSE "ISSUES".
Sony got out of plasma and others are getting out too, I'd get you some "crayons " if
you knew how to use them.
Sony is one of if not the biggest manufacturer od video displays and they aint touching Plasma, are you too stupid to understand why?



Plus, it doesn't hurt that Sharp recently took out an ownership stake in Pioneer. Think that doesn't have anything to do with this decision? Keep those crayons out, you might yet comprehend this game of connect-the-dots one of these days!

THE ONLY THING TO DO WITH THIS DECISION IS OVERCAPACITY IN THE PLASMA MARKET.
The price is going down just to compete with LCD , which it cant do.
The only market niche is highq and the highq is a matter of opinion, and OLED and improvement in LCD, adding to the fact that LCD is more trouble free would be enough to kill Plasma, except that plasma IS ALREADY DEAD


Wrong again. Panasonic and Samsung are doing just fine, and are primarily responsible for Pioneer's problems. Pioneer could not match their price points, and they've now erased Pioneer's picture quality advantage. Anything else to draw from that article is pure speculation.

AND THEY ARE BLEEDING RED INK trying to keep their own "price points", and are next to drop plasma like a hot potato, just as soon as they can figure out how to without killing what little is left of the market, which is SHRINKING not growing


Like I said, 11.4 million in sales and a projected 25 million by 2012 doesn't square with any rational definition of DEAD. Of course, that's presuming that I'm dealing with a rational opinionator here!

I'm the one whos rational around here, you talk about "speculation" and then mention
a marketing BS lie ABOUT 25 MILLION BY 2012???:crazy:

I'll give you a more accurate "prediction" ACE, a projection of ZERO sales by 2012.
Why?
BECAUSE PLASMA IS DEAD:1:

Looks like Wooch have found his match :D

Good thread guys http://www.eyecravedvd.com/forums/images/smilies/top.gif

[O'Shag]

GM and Wooch - thanks much for the clarification. I have seen good LCD sets of late and good plasmas. I guess the performance gap is closing between the two. But the best large screen plasmas, while expensive, definitely look better to me. Mind you I've not seen that $30k Bravia LCD from Sony yet.

[blackraven]

I have A Sony 52" XBR4 LCD TV and it gives a great picture but it U really could not tell any difference in Black levels when seen side by side next to a panasonic plasma with 1080p. There's no doubt to me that the Pansonic Plasma had a better picture and was cheaper. But my choice in buying the LCD was do to room brightness and reflection. Had my family room not had so many big windows I would have gone the Plasma route. I think that both technologies have their place and appeal.

[pixelthis]

Plasma is not bad at all. Pix just owns an LCD so therefore, plasma is evil. Plasma has a better picture quality than LCD but does have other drawbacks. You get to choose which means more to you. LCD on average uses less electric, has less glare, weighs less, and are brighter. Plasmas have better black level, richer colors, and better off center viewing. The price edge goes to LCD on anything under 50 inch. Plasma for anything over. Both are getting better with their short comings. Where one used to be way better at something in the past, they are now just a little better. Burn in and glare for plasmas are a thing of the past. Newer models are much better. Screen door effect and blurry movements for LCD is going bye bye as well. In the end, (or make that the next few years) LCD should sell more because of what they do better appeals to the masses more than the better PQ of a plasma.

WHATEVER


The problem with sity different ways of doing things is that each requires a monumental effort.
So lets have two or even three, thats a lot, but do we really need lcd, plasma, dlp, rptv,
oled, etc.

They fewer form factors the industry has to focus on the better the products they will come out with.
Armies of engineers , each working on something different, its a monumental waste of
effort.
Besides WOOCH IS A BIG PLASMA FANBOY, and if they go extinct he will cry like a little baby.
If trying to get a disscussion going is "trolling" then so be it:1:

[GMichael]

WHATEVER


The problem with sity different ways of doing things is that each requires a monumental effort.
So lets have two or even three, thats a lot, but do we really need lcd, plasma, dlp, rptv,
oled, etc.

They fewer form factors the industry has to focus on the better the products they will come out with.
Armies of engineers , each working on something different, its a monumental waste of
effort.
Besides WOOCH IS A BIG PLASMA FANBOY, and if they go extinct he will cry like a little baby.
If trying to get a disscussion going is "trolling" then so be it:1:


I didn't mean to call you a troll dude. I find your posts very entertaining. But some of your views are a little extreme. Although there is a lot of fact mixed in with what you are saying, you do seem to see things in black & white. The world is a little more grey (like it or not). Plasma is not as bad as you make it out to be. Even though much of what you say is true, you are only focusing on the bad and ignoring the good. And even that's fine for you. I felt that it was my duty to point out the other side for any lurkers out there using this site as a guide to what they are going to spend their cash on.

[Woochifer]

WHATEVER


The problem with sity different ways of doing things is that each requires a monumental effort.
So lets have two or even three, thats a lot, but do we really need lcd, plasma, dlp, rptv,
oled, etc.

Let's see, if there was such thing as a perfect technology to fulfill all of the different expectations with HDTVs, why would all of these competing approaches even exist?


They fewer form factors the industry has to focus on the better the products they will come out with.
Armies of engineers , each working on something different, its a monumental waste of
effort.

Psst, that's otherwise known as COMPETITION, Mr "Libertarian"! :lol:


Besides WOOCH IS A BIG PLASMA FANBOY, and if they go extinct he will cry like a little baby.

Quite the contrary. If they go extinct, it will be because a better technology will have come along at a lower price point. LCD ain't gonna be that technology. I prefer to focus on performance. If I were buying right now, I'd go with plasma. If I were buying a few years from now, I'd see what's out there and decide at that point. If that defines a fanboy, then you're stretching the bounds of nonsensical hyperbole as usual. Then again, with your ramblings, I gotta wonder if your grasp on sanity or logic is more tenuous. :crazy:


If trying to get a disscussion going is "trolling" then so be it:1:

I guess we can now add troll and fanboy to the list of concepts that elude your comprehension! :sleep:

[pixelthis]

Let's see, if there was such thing as a perfect technology to fulfill all of the different expectations with HDTVs, why would all of these competing approaches even exist?

Why did we have several different types of automotive tech? Or two kinds of videotape?
We even had two types of DVD (divix and "straight" dvd)
Several groups of people trying to solve the same problem in different ways.
If the plasma manufacturers had even dreamed that LCD WOULD get so cheap and
SO good so FAST they never would have built a plasma set



Psst, that's otherwise known as COMPETITION, Mr "Libertarian"! :lol:

YES, and its great, but this shaking out in video display is taking forever.
Looks like RPTV is the next casualty, then Plasma




Quite the contrary. If they go extinct, it will be because a better technology will have come along at a lower price point. LCD ain't gonna be that technology. I prefer to focus on performance. If I were buying right now, I'd go with plasma. If I were buying a few years from now, I'd see what's out there and decide at that point. If that defines a fanboy, then you're stretching the bounds of nonsensical hyperbole as usual. Then again, with your ramblings, I gotta wonder if your grasp on sanity or logic is more tenuous. :crazy:

LCD IS THAT "TECHNOLOGY"
The one thing that really pisses me of about you plasma fanboys is you automatically presume that plasma has a better picture,
WHICH IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.
You must be a kid, or you forgot that when plasma first came out the picture was washed
out, grainy, looked like crap.
The picture is better today, but LCD is every bit as good (higher end anyway)
The main problem with plasma that people complained about was "black level", in other words it sucked.
Todays problems with plasma are leaking gas envelopes, massive energy usage,
burn in, and radiaton , paticulary ultraviolet.
But hey if you sit far enough away mayby your kids strange features will only be your genetic heritage



I guess we can now add troll and fanboy to the list of concepts that elude your comprehension! :sleep:


I guess we can add a lack of comprehension of ANYTHING to yours.
Plasma is doomed, and theres one factor you've missed (well one out of thousands)
Plasma is a lot more expensive to make, ship, and service.
Eventually the industry will kill the market for them on purpose, just so they can standardize production into one form factor.
This has happened before, will happen again:1:

[biffsbiz]

Pioneer, who makes the best display devices of 50" and up is not done making plasma displays. They are just subbing out the manufacture of the plasma panels to Panasonic (who makes crappy display devices of 50" and up). Plasma panels will be made to Pioneer's specification. All internal electronics (the most important part of the device) in the finished plasma displays will still be made by Pioneer.

Anyone that is at all critical of display devices knows that plasma is far superior to LCD, and will be for some time. OLED may cure LCD's many faults, but for now plasma is the only digital display device that can produce BLACK. The Pioneer KURO plasma displays are the current standard of the industry. Absolutely nothing looks as good, except for a direct-view CRT or a CRT projector in a black room.

LCD is cheap, that's about all it has going for it.

Pay no attention to my avatar.

[JSE]

Looks like RPTV is the next casualty, then Plasma

OK, I'm confused. :confused:

I thought you said Plasma "IS" dead? Now your telling me we first have to wait for RPTV to bite the dust before we can all jump for joy that Plasma is pushing daisies? You had me all worked up in the delight that Plasma is dead. I had a "death party" planned and everything. You guys were going to be invited. How stupid would I look now if I threw the party celebrating Plasma's death? I had cake! How Stupid would I look if I was standing there lighting the candles and the supposedly "dead" plasma hanging on the wall at the bar all of a sudden turned on? It's Alive!

Thanks a lot PIX! You owe me $20 for the cake.

Friggin Plasma. :mad2:


JSE

[bobsticks]

Oh Good Lord help me some days...this is still goin' on?

I have a nice, convenient,one-dimensional workhorse of an LCD for my computer use and occasional movie use. The energy savings makes me feel like a responsible member of the Green Community until...

I turn on my big, honkin', black, realistic plasma and burn up generators. Sometimes I leave the unit on for hours while I go out and throw styrofoam into the woods and laugh at Sally Struthers. I do this as a form of social protest against the generations before me that ran the country into debt and will use up my Social Security.

Both technologies are currently alive and kicking. Both technologies are doomed. Blah, blah,blah...test on Friday.

[GMichael]

test on Friday.[/I]

Whoa! A test?!
Chit! I didn't study.:eek6:

[Woochifer]

Why did we have several different types of automotive tech? Or two kinds of videotape?

What part of competition do you not understand, Mr. Friedman?


Several groups of people trying to solve the same problem in different ways.
If the plasma manufacturers had even dreamed that LCD WOULD get so cheap and
SO good so FAST they never would have built a plasma set

And big screen plasma sets have been on the market for how long now? More than a decade? So, in your view of competition, plasma manufacturers should have just sat still and done nothing when a market opportunity was available to them? You are just such a capitalist! :lol:

So, I guess in your clairvoyant view of the world, LCD manufacturers should just quit now because OLED's going to take over the market within the next ten years? Nice logic.


YES, and its great, but this shaking out in video display is taking forever.

Maybe because there's no single technology out there that does not have a significant drawback of some kind? :thumbsup:


LCD IS THAT "TECHNOLOGY"
The one thing that really pisses me of about you plasma fanboys is you automatically presume that plasma has a better picture,
WHICH IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.

Nope, performance parameters are very easy to measure, and brightness is the only measure where LCD consistently outperforms plasma. If you're talking about black levels, contrast, color accuracy, image consistency, and motion resolution, plasma sets generally outperform LCD. If LCD were "THAT TECHNOLOGY," it would outperform plasma, LCoS, DLP et al in every category, or even most. It doesn't, so therefore it's not.

Subjective is what it is, and in my viewings, plasma delivers the better picture. Difference is that my opinion squares with what the objective measures demonstrate.


You must be a kid, or you forgot that when plasma first came out the picture was washed
out, grainy, looked like crap.

And LCD wasn't much better, or are you forgetting that at your old age? :sosp:


The picture is better today, but LCD is every bit as good (higher end anyway)

If that's the case, then how come most LCD sets still don't perform well with motion resolution?


The main problem with plasma that people complained about was "black level", in other words it sucked.
Todays problems with plasma are leaking gas envelopes, massive energy usage,
burn in, and radiaton , paticulary ultraviolet.

Once again, recycling decade-old talking points as if they are relevant to today's models.


But hey if you sit far enough away mayby your kids strange features will only be your genetic heritage

Ah, so now the personal attacks have stretched to include the kids. How classy of you! :rolleyes:

I guess you really don't have much material left, and to think your career as a comedian was off to such a brilliant start, however unintentional your humor might have been! :11:


I guess we can add a lack of comprehension of ANYTHING to yours.

Right, given that you're back to regurgitating debunked points about gas leakage, energy usage, and costs, that speaks more about YOUR comprehension than anything.


Plasma is doomed

Why not just say what you're really thinking ... WE'RE ALL DOOMED BECAUSE WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE SOMEDAY! Your oh-so-sunshiney disposition must really be a joy to be around!


Plasma is a lot more expensive to make, ship, and service.

And plasma also has a larger average screen size, think that has something to do with this?

And if plasma's that much more expensive to make, then how does Panasonic get away with pricing their 1080p sets so that they undercut what the 120 Hz LCD sets cost?


Eventually the industry will kill the market for them on purpose, just so they can standardize production into one form factor.
This has happened before, will happen again:1:

Why would the industry kill the segment that currently delivers the largest direct view screen sizes (70" already on the market, and 150" demo models already built), and has the highest performance in some key measures? And all the while, the segment remains a profitable niche for the biggest players? This isn't like Blu-ray v. HD-DVD, which relied on the hardware matching the software specs. So long as plasma and LCD sets use the same connection standards and can play the same source material, it's irrelevant to "the industry" whether one or both segments remain in the market.

[pixelthis]

What part of competition do you not understand, Mr. Friedman?


a LOT BETTER THAN YOU.
Why is there only one type of dvd? automobile? (internal combustion)
Eventually a form factor gets chosen, and the others fall by the wayside or become niche products


And big screen plasma sets have been on the market for how long now? More than a decade? So, in your view of competition, plasma manufacturers should have just sat still and done nothing when a market opportunity was available to them? You are just such a capitalist! :lol:

Capitalists think in terms of decades, the emergence of LCD happened practically overnight, plasma is an inferiour product that the consumer is rejecting as we speak.
If "capitalists " had known that it was only gonna last as long as 2010 at most they wouldnt have spent billions on it.
Spending billions on an expensive tech , even if the govt did subsidize it, on a product that will be gone in a decade is not a "market niche", its financial suicide



So, I guess in your clairvoyant view of the world, LCD manufacturers should just quit now because OLED's going to take over the market within the next ten years? Nice logic.

LCD has already made its way, and will make billions more, but it is doomed.
OLED has a perfect black level, wont explain why to you because a chimp only understands a banana, its also .17 in thick.
The latest "superthin" sets dont even approach that.
BEING ABLE TO ROLL ONE UP AND PUT IT IN A TUBE IS NICE ALSO.
OLED is to lcd AND plasma what the joint strike fighter is to a p51 mustang.
The mustang is nice but DANG is it even close to the newest toy?
AND IT WILL BE HERE SOONEST, a lot sooner than most think



Maybe because there's no single technology out there that does not have a significant drawback of some kind? :thumbsup:

Some tech has drawbacks but not all are significant.
This is known as a generalization and like most such is wrong


Nope, performance parameters are very easy to measure, and brightness is the only measure where LCD consistently outperforms plasma. If you're talking about black levels, contrast, color accuracy, image consistency, and motion resolution, plasma sets generally outperform LCD. If LCD were "THAT TECHNOLOGY," it would outperform plasma, LCoS, DLP et al in every category, or even most. It doesn't, so therefore it's not.

There is no set standard for black level or most of the other parameters you mention.
Its totally subjective. performance IS easy to measure but theres no standard, so it mainly boils down to what you like.
And most are deciding that the picture of an LCD is just as good as a plasma.
Which isn't a surprize to those who know more than you (just about everybody)
Things you dont consider "important" (long life, inexpensive to use, brightness, and no GLARE whatsoever ) when factored into the very close specs in the PQ area make the
LCD a hands down winner


Subjective is what it is, and in my viewings, plasma delivers the better picture. Difference is that my opinion squares with what the objective measures demonstrate.

And that is a subjective statement.
THERE IS NO "OBJECTIVE" measure of tv DISPLAYS , but most concede that the ONLY area in which plasma is "better" is a very slight black level advantage and a slightly "smoother" pic, which some preceive as a lack of sharpness.
our hobby rides on a sea of mass market, if the great unwashed reject your toy it doesnt matter why, a complicated thing like a plasma tv requires hugh economies of scale,
once the numbers drop below a certain number they will cease.
The ONLY thing they have going for them is snobs such as yourself, you dont like LCD for one reason , EVERYBODY else likes them.
Once OLED takes off, the "niche" of PQ OVER any kind of common sense will be gone,
which is plasmas main market



And LCD wasn't much better, or are you forgetting that at your old age? :sosp:

LCD was WORSE, but has improved much more than plasma


If that's the case, then how come most LCD sets still don't perform well with motion resolution?


You're joking , right? Thuis old bugaboo never was much of a problem and with 120 hz sets has been done away with entirely.
But you dont even need that, an eight millisecond refresh rate does away with it quite
nicely, and there are FOUR millisecond sets out there if that still aint enough.
Why dont you bring up the old "screen door" crap while you're at it?
I am about five feet away from my set and cant discern ANY pixel structure whatsoever


Once again, recycling decade-old talking points as if they are relevant to today's models.

Look at the pot calling the kettle black, bring up "lag" and other nonsense that never was much of a problem to begin with in the first place


Ah, so now the personal attacks have stretched to include the kids. How classy of you! :rolleyes:

THANKS


I guess you really don't have much material left, and to think your career as a comedian was off to such a brilliant start, however unintentional your humor might have been! :11:

yOUR CAREER as one is assured, just keep doing what you've been doing, getting your tech advice from cheech and chong


Right, given that you're back to regurgitating debunked points about gas leakage, energy usage, and costs, that speaks more about YOUR comprehension than anything.

THEY ARE not "DEBUNKED", they are still serious problems.
especially price, 1080p in plasma is so much more expensive than LCD that most are passing on them


Why not just say what you're really thinking ... WE'RE ALL DOOMED BECAUSE WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE SOMEDAY! Your oh-so-sunshiney disposition must really be a joy to be around!


Again, THANKS


And plasma also has a larger average screen size, think that has something to do with this?

Who cares? THE market for such sizes is a lot smaller


And if plasma's that much more expensive to make, then how does Panasonic get away with pricing their 1080p sets so that they undercut what the 120 Hz LCD sets cost?

THE 120HZ is in itself a small part of the market.
And Panasonic is owned by MATSHUHITA, one of the largest comglomerates
on the planet.
They could sell gold for ten bucks an ounce for a year and not lose enough of their rather large pie to wory about



Why would the industry kill the segment that currently delivers the largest direct view screen sizes (70" already on the market, and 150" demo models already built), and has the highest performance in some key measures? And all the while, the segment remains a profitable niche for the biggest players? This isn't like Blu-ray v. HD-DVD, which relied on the hardware matching the software specs. So long as plasma and LCD sets use the same connection standards and can play the same source material, it's irrelevant to "the industry" whether one or both segments remain in the market.

You really are clueless arent you?
THE 70 AND 150 MARKETS ARE SMALL, not even worth worrying about.
And your subjective assesment of plasma quality, even if true, isnt a deciding factor in the marketplace.
Only a small percentage of the market buys a set based on subjective things like "black level", etc. you think people are out there measuring such when they buy a set?
Everybody who buys a lcd in my circle, know what they talk about?
The bright glarefree picture!
Tv companies put the default setting for contrast on "TORCH" mode (with enthusaists
complaining all the time) for a reason, people like a bright picture.
And the list of tech that was strangled in the grave for financial reasons is rather large.
LASER was only supported by pioneer, most thought that laser would hurt VCRS.
fm radio was very superiour to AM, but RCA tried to kill IT because they thought it
would take sales away from their new toy, TELEVISION.
EVERY PLASMA B "sale" has a major problem, its not an lcd sale.
If it sells too many it will be finished because its canabalizing lcd sales at a high cost.
In other words why go to the expense of making plasma when people will buy LCD if it doesnt exist?
This is one of the reasons that video rental companies were reluctant to go to DVD,
why bother if VIDEOCASSETTE is "good enough"?
And its the reason that a lot of broadcasters fought HD, AND STEREO TV.
Why invest in the good stuff if people will buy crud?
On the other hand if not enough sets of teh plasdma variety arent sold it will be killed off for being nonprofiftable.
Either way its going to be killed off. For marketing reasons if nothing else.
THEY DODGED a few bullets, settling the leaking gas and burn in lawsuits out of court and keeping them quiet, but plasma isnt a cat, it doesnt have nine lives.
Eventually it wont be worth the trouble.
WHICH IS WHY PLASMA IS DEAD:1:

[pixelthis]

OK, I'm confused. :confused:

I thought you said Plasma "IS" dead? Now your telling me we first have to wait for RPTV to bite the dust before we can all jump for joy that Plasma is pushing daisies? You had me all worked up in the delight that Plasma is dead. I had a "death party" planned and everything. You guys were going to be invited. How stupid would I look now if I threw the party celebrating Plasma's death? I had cake! How Stupid would I look if I was standing there lighting the candles and the supposedly "dead" plasma hanging on the wall at the bar all of a sudden turned on? It's Alive!

Thanks a lot PIX! You owe me $20 for the cake.

Friggin Plasma. :mad2:


JSE


sorry for the miscommunication.
When SONY quit the RPTV market that was offical notice, like an obit in the paper,
that the form factor was DEAD.
THE ORDER I stated was correct, but I failed to point out that we've already passed the point for RPTV.
Business models dont turn on a dime, there are still some RPTVS out there, but probably no new ones in the pipeline.
People like thin, thin is IN, and RPTV doesnt "measure up".
You can still get a corpse at wallmart (RCA DLP 50IN 999$) or a mitsubisi (73in 2300$)
IF you want the biggest bang for the buck and are into necrophillia.
But for most , not only is RPTV DEAD, THEY DIDNT EVEN NOTICE that it was starving to death in the basement.
So go ahead and eat your cake, but dont give any to wooch, I've already fed him so much hes starting to bloat:1:

[bobsticks]

I have a "zoom" aspect choice also, but I also have a 2x button, increases the pic 2x, when a pic is letterboxed on all four sides it helps it fill the screen.
You dont have one of those?:1:

You know it's hard to take your argument about PQ seriously when you make statements like this. This is getting surreal.

[kexodusc]

You know it's hard to take your argument about PQ seriously when you make statements like this. This is getting surreal.
Dude, if this guy starts posting DVD reviews...:1:

[bobsticks]

Dude, if this guy starts posting DVD reviews...:1:

LOL, the similarities are sometimes eerie...

Have some Green Wiki-Wiki

[Woochifer]

a LOT BETTER THAN YOU.

Apparently not. As evidenced by your rambling responses below.


Why is there only one type of dvd?

Evidence to your cluelessness. The only form factor that matters with TVs is whether the size matches the room and whether that TV has the appropriate connections to the source material. With DVDs, you have a hardware spec that has to match a software spec. With TVs, the only spec that has to match is the connection standard and the signal source. Nice try, but as usual you hit the wrong target. :cool:


automobile? (internal combustion)

So, I guess that Mazda's rotary engines don't exist, and neither do any of the hybrid and electric drivetrains or any of the hydrogen fuel cell drivetrains in development? And talking about form factor, you got a whole slew of different configurations out there -- i.e., diesel engines dominating the market for trucks, different body styles, different induction systems, different fuel system designs, different purpose-built configurations, etc. If the auto industry was as standardized as you say, then how come every car company uses their own engine designs that have few parts that can transplant from one model to another?


Eventually a form factor gets chosen, and the others fall by the wayside or become niche products

The form factor is the same -- wall-mountable flat panel design, capable of accepting analog and digital video connections, screen sizes ranging from 37" and up. A LCD TV can play the exact same source material as a plasma TV, and both types of TVs can use the exact same types of wall-mount brackets and fit into the same living room spaces. Chalk up "form factor" as yet another incomprehensible concept to the mind of pixel.


Capitalists think in terms of decades, the emergence of LCD happened practically overnight, plasma is an inferiour product that the consumer is rejecting as we speak.
If "capitalists " had known that it was only gonna last as long as 2010 at most they wouldnt have spent billions on it.
Spending billions on an expensive tech , even if the govt did subsidize it, on a product that will be gone in a decade is not a "market niche", its financial suicide

So then I guess that Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Fujitsu, Hitachi, and Pioneer are part of a global Communist plot, since by your defintion they cannot possibly be "capitalists"! :rolleyes:

You think they haven't already sold billions of dollars worth of plasmas over the decade plus that they've been in production? If you can't do the math, go find yourself a calculator -- it's NOT THAT HARD! Consider that last year alone, over 11 million plasma TVs were sold. Using a very conservative average cost per set of $1,500 (conservative considering that the median plasma TV sale was in the 50" size, which averages more than $2,000), that works out to over $16 billion in sales for one year. Considering that they've been in production for over a decade, and always maintained higher average margins than LCD, that's a lot of revenue that can amortize their investment.



LCD has already made its way, and will make billions more, but it is doomed.

Oh yes, everything is DOOMED! We're ALL DOOMED!


OLED has a perfect black level, wont explain why to you because a chimp only understands a banana, its also .17 in thick.
The latest "superthin" sets dont even approach that.
BEING ABLE TO ROLL ONE UP AND PUT IT IN A TUBE IS NICE ALSO.
OLED is to lcd AND plasma what the joint strike fighter is to a p51 mustang.
The mustang is nice but DANG is it even close to the newest toy?
AND IT WILL BE HERE SOONEST, a lot sooner than most think

And at what point will OLED become practical in the larger screen sizes? Everything's all well and good in theory, but it doesn't mean squat until it actually shows up on store shelves. All that OLED has on store shelves RIGHT NOW is an 11" model that sells for $2,500. Samsung doesn't think that a 40" size will be practical until 2010 at the earliest, and at that point what price will early adopters have to pay? What will the reliability issues those large OLED TVs have? All those are unknowns right now.


Some tech has drawbacks but not all are significant.
This is known as a generalization and like most such is wrong

So you're therefore presuming that LCD has no significant drawbacks. Isn't that a generalization too? Must be hard trying to keep things straight in that head of yours without logic to fall back on! :ciappa:

And if the motion resolution of LCD is nearly 50% lower than the still resolution (even with a 120 Hz refresh rate), while plasma can maintain over 80% of its resolution with a moving image, I would consider that a considerable drawback.


There is no set standard for black level or most of the other parameters you mention.

Quite the contrary, there are standard measurements for all of those parameters. LCD simply performs lower than other designs in most of them.


Its totally subjective. performance IS easy to measure but theres no standard, so it mainly boils down to what you like.

Only to you are those performance parameters subjective. Color accuracy can be measured, contrast can be measured, still and motion resolution can be measured. Of course, to you the most important performance parameter is price, and that too can be measured even by a cognitively challenged consumer like yourself! Gosh, so there is actually a "scientific" concept that you understand!


And most are deciding that the picture of an LCD is just as good as a plasma.

Nope, most are deciding that LCD is cheap and flat. And most are looking in the small screen sizes that plasma does not compete in.


Which isn't a surprize to those who know more than you (just about everybody)

Then I guess that would also exclude you, given the paucity of accurate info that you've provided throughout this thread.


THERE IS NO "OBJECTIVE" measure of tv DISPLAYS , but most concede that the ONLY area in which plasma is "better" is a very slight black level advantage and a slightly "smoother" pic, which some preceive as a lack of sharpness.

Quite the contrary, there are plenty of objective measures. You simply choose to overlook them because LCD does not measure up to competing technologies in most of them.


our hobby rides on a sea of mass market, if the great unwashed reject your toy it doesnt matter why, a complicated thing like a plasma tv requires hugh economies of scale,
once the numbers drop below a certain number they will cease.
The ONLY thing they have going for them is snobs such as yourself, you dont like LCD for one reason , EVERYBODY else likes them.

So long as the option remains on the market for when I'm looking, I could care less what happens afterwards. People who don't like LCD don't care what others think, they simply see the picture and opt for other alternatives that better meet their standards. And most people who buy LCD could care less whether other competing options remain on the market or not. You're the only one of this board who seems to want plasma to go away, if for no other reason than it competes with LCD and it "annoys" you. And you actually think you understand the concept of a fanboy? Look in the mirror, dude!


Once OLED takes off, the "niche" of PQ OVER any kind of common sense will be gone,
which is plasmas main market

And if OLED's all that it's cracked up to be, then I'll be glad to get one. Like I said, both LCD and plasma have major drawbacks, and one technology that trumps both of them would be welcome. But, for anyone who's looking RIGHT NOW, OLED is meaningless because the product is not out on the market anywhere near practical screen sizes.


You're joking , right? Thuis old bugaboo never was much of a problem and with 120 hz sets has been done away with entirely.

Joke's on you. The October issue of Home Theater found that 1080p LCD TVs lost nearly half of their resolution when displaying a moving image. Even the 120 Hz models that they tested had a motion resolution of less than 600. The LCoS and DLP sets had between 700 and 800 lines of motion resolution, while the plasmas had between 800 and nearly 900. This concurs with what I and others on this board have observed -- that LCD does not fare well with moving images.

Old bugaboo?! The only thing old here is your wordage and your information.


But you dont even need that, an eight millisecond refresh rate does away with it quite
nicely, and there are FOUR millisecond sets out there if that still aint enough.

All's well and good with that, but they still lose more actual resolution with a moving image than any other screen tech.


Why dont you bring up the old "screen door" crap while you're at it?
I am about five feet away from my set and cant discern ANY pixel structure whatsoever

Try opening your eyes or at least putting on your glasses. I know it's a pride thing with some of you, but clarity can be a good thing! :shocked:


Look at the pot calling the kettle black, bring up "lag" and other nonsense that never was much of a problem to begin with in the first place

Ho hum. Difference is that my information is current and correct, while yours is over a decade old and not applicable to anything currently on the market. Pot seems to be a very appropriate concept with you, except that the stuff you're using ain't black and it ain't used for cooking! :ihih:


THANKS

Figures that you would be proud of personally attacking kids. Then again, you're the one who gets off on crack hos, and fantasizing about other people's wives and mothers! What sad depths you keep reaching ...


yOUR CAREER as one is assured, just keep doing what you've been doing, getting your tech advice from cheech and chong

Cheech and Chong?! At least their humor was somewhat intentional, and not purely accidental like yours.

OMG, you REALLY need to get out of the 70s every now and then! Of course, all the experimentation prevalent in that decade probably goes a long way towards splainin' all this delusional nonsense you keep cracking.


THEY ARE not "DEBUNKED", they are still serious problems.
especially price, 1080p in plasma is so much more expensive than LCD that most are passing on them

If plasma's "much more expensive" then how come the 120 Hz LCDs are more expensive than the 1080p plasmas? Like I said before, the Panasonic 1080p plasmas list at $1,600, which is the same as other name brand LCD sets.


Again, THANKS

Still too dumb/drunk/high to recognize a snark when you see one, eh? You must be the one with the "KICK ME" sign still taped to his back! :ciappa:


Who cares? THE market for such sizes is a lot smaller

And much more profitable.


You really are clueless arent you?

Nope. I'm not the one recycling talking points from 10 years ago, and trying to pass them off as relevant to today's market. If being clueless means daring to argue logic with someone like you who's clearly overmatched by those kinds of ground rules, then you're welcome to keep on believing that!


THE 70 AND 150 MARKETS ARE SMALL, not even worth worrying about.

But, the overall market for sizes above 52" are certainly consequential, and it's plasma that's now moving RPTV models out of that segment. Those large screen sizes remain the most profitable niche. LCD manufacturers have been killing each other in the 32" and under segment, and the margins in those screen sizes are razor thin. They might be moving a lot of volume, but they're making progressively less on each set.


And your subjective assesment of plasma quality, even if true, isnt a deciding factor in the marketplace.
Only a small percentage of the market buys a set based on subjective things like "black level", etc. you think people are out there measuring such when they buy a set?

Nope, they're looking at the price tag. That's why plasma competes in the higher margin markets where product quality is more of a primary consideration.


Everybody who buys a lcd in my circle, know what they talk about?
The bright glarefree picture!

So who's actually in your circle, aside from the jerk part? Are they all as clueless as you?


Tv companies put the default setting for contrast on "TORCH" mode (with enthusaists
complaining all the time) for a reason, people like a bright picture.

And putting a TV on torch mode is a good thing in your view? What looks good under bright fluorescent lighting in a big box warehouse floor is very different once you take it home.


And the list of tech that was strangled in the grave for financial reasons is rather large.
LASER was only supported by pioneer, most thought that laser would hurt VCRS.
fm radio was very superiour to AM, but RCA tried to kill IT because they thought it
would take sales away from their new toy, TELEVISION.

Boy, and you accuse everybody else of perpetuating conspiracies! :shocked:


EVERY PLASMA B "sale" has a major problem, its not an lcd sale.

It's only a problem to YOU because you're a low-end LCD fanboy! No problem to people like me who prefer to have choice in the market.


If it sells too many it will be finished because its canabalizing lcd sales at a high cost.
In other words why go to the expense of making plasma when people will buy LCD if it doesnt exist?

More theoretical nonsense -- fact of the matter is that plasma does exist and meets a very specific need in the actual market. People want flat panel screens, and they want larger sizes. For years, plasma was the most affordable flat panel option in those screen sizes. LCD is now another option, but only up through the 52" screen size. You want something bigger, plasma's your only option.

By your pretzel logic, you're saying that screen sizes in the market at any given time should be constrained by what LCD technology can affordably provide. This is pure fanboy nonsense because there has been demand for big screen TVs since the CRT days. Are you saying that no one should have made a big screen TV because LCD would hit the market someday? :idea:


This is one of the reasons that video rental companies were reluctant to go to DVD,
why bother if VIDEOCASSETTE is "good enough"?

Nope, the major video rental chains did not want to rock the boat because they had a very cozy and profitable revenue sharing arrangement with the studios. By going to DVD, which has a sell-through rather than rental pricing structure, they would have to pay the same wholesale cost as other retailers. I don't think that anyone said that VHS was "good enough" -- well, maybe you did, so I guess that's one person.


And its the reason that a lot of broadcasters fought HD, AND STEREO TV.

Again, it came down to cost. Upgrading equipment is expensive, but eventually broadcasters bought in. So, what does this have to do with plasma v. LCD?


Why invest in the good stuff if people will buy crud?

Because if there is a large enough market for the good stuff, then it will continue in the market.


On the other hand if not enough sets of teh plasdma variety arent sold it will be killed off for being nonprofiftable.
Either way its going to be killed off. For marketing reasons if nothing else.

By who? So long as manufacturers and retailers continue to maintain higher margins on plasma sets (again, because they primarily compete in the big screen sizes), what reason would there be to kill it off?


THEY DODGED a few bullets, settling the leaking gas and burn in lawsuits out of court and keeping them quiet, but plasma isnt a cat, it doesnt have nine lives.

And how old are the sets in question? Nothing of the kind has occurred for years, and your burn-in regurgitation speaks volumes to how old your information continues to be.


Eventually it wont be worth the trouble.

Just not anytime soon.


WHICH IS WHY PLASMA IS DEAD

Apparently, someone needs to go back to remedial courses on grammar. Your tense usage IS obviously lacking (and so is your sentence structure, clarity, spelling et al, but that's a lesson for another day). But, if you diligently do your work, you might actually use the correct tense in your sentences.

Of course, it would be very premature for me to say that your sentence tense IS not piss poor, because it STILL IS! Now, if I were presuming to have any confidence in your learning ability (which BTW I don't), I would say that your sentence tense WILL NOT BE piss poor IN THE FUTURE. But, since I doubt you can even comprehend 1/10 of what I just said, it would be more logical to simply conclude that your sentence tense IS piss poor, WILL BE piss poor, and ALWAYS WILL BE piss poor! :lol:

Given that plasma IS still ALIVE, that makes your bone-headed proclamation pure nonsense. Of course, if you had just said that plasma WILL BE DEAD, I might just agree with you. After all, ALL of us WILL BE DEAD someday, it's just that none of us ARE DEAD right now. And I'm sure that just makes your day, since death and doom seem to do better than anything to get a rise out of you! :ciappa:

[GMichael]

Holey F'k Wooch! There is no way in he!! that I'm reading all that. Is RGA over your house or something?

[GMichael]

Dude, if this guy starts posting DVD reviews...:1:

I just felt a cold chill down my spine.:(

[Woochifer]

So go ahead and eat your cake, but dont give any to wooch, I've already fed him so much hes starting to bloat:1:

Considering that cake is junk food, that's a rather apt comparison for the misinformation that you keep repeating over and over. You can keep dishing it out, and I'll keep throwing it right back at you. :cool:

[Woochifer]

Holey F'k Wooch! There is no way in he!! that I'm reading all that.

You loss GM! It's a good read, trust me! All the more fun because he keeps digging his own hole for all to see. :ihih:


Is RGA over your house or something?

Nope, and this doesn't remind me of those days either. At least RGA was coherent and presented a reasoned argument most of the time. Pixel's just lost, and who know's where!

[Luvin Da Blues]

You loss GM! It's a good read, trust me! All the more fun because he keeps digging his own hole for all to see. :ihih:

Excellent read Wooch, but way too much effort on him. Remember, a ignorant man can learn but an idiot........:ihih:

[GMichael]

You loss GM! It's a good read, trust me! All the more fun because he keeps digging his own hole for all to see. :ihih:



Nope, and this doesn't remind me of those days either. At least RGA was coherent and presented a reasoned argument most of the time. Pixel's just lost, and who know's where!

OK OK. I admit it. I went back and read it all. Yeah, it was fun. Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel though. He sets you up very nicely.

[Woochifer]

OK OK. I admit it. I went back and read it all. Yeah, it was fun. Kinda like shooting fish in a barrel though. He sets you up very nicely.

No kidding. Next thing, people are gonna start wondering if pixel and I are one and the same, since it can't possibly be THAT easy! :eek:

But alas, the one giveaway though is that no matter what kind of troll persona that I create, I can come up with MUCH better baiting material than pixel's usual trifecta of crack hos, mothers, and wives! Plus, it's just bad karma to start lobbing personal attacks on kids like pixel has. Of course, with his obsession with doom and death, he might be inviting bad fortune for himself -- what a masochist! :cool:

[audio amateur]

OK, I'm confused. :confused:

I thought you said Plasma "IS" dead? Now your telling me we first have to wait for RPTV to bite the dust before we can all jump for joy that Plasma is pushing daisies? You had me all worked up in the delight that Plasma is dead. I had a "death party" planned and everything. You guys were going to be invited. How stupid would I look now if I threw the party celebrating Plasma's death? I had cake! How Stupid would I look if I was standing there lighting the candles and the supposedly "dead" plasma hanging on the wall at the bar all of a sudden turned on? It's Alive!

Thanks a lot PIX! You owe me $20 for the cake.

Friggin Plasma. :mad2:


JSE
ROTFLMAO!!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Excellent read Wooch, but way too much effort on him. Remember, a ignorant man can learn but an idiot........:ihih:

I have said this over and over again. This foo wants to talk, he doesn't want to listen and learn a damn thing. And the more you try and teach him, the dummer YOU get. Me, I ain't wastin no more of my time on that.

Wooch, damn brudda!! You go man.....

[filecat13]

Man, I started to read this thread...

...then woke up the next morning with the taste of too much Sambuca in my mouth, no pants, no wallet, a splitting headache, and a funny, itchy feeling in my groin. I felt like an addict coming down from a life-threatening high. This thing is potentially lethal.

Someone, puh-leeze, put "Plasma Is Dead" out of my misery. Ack! I can't stop reading, and it's taking over my life.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Man, I started to read this thread...

...then woke up the next morning with the taste of too much Sambuca in my mouth, no pants, no wallet, a splitting headache, and a funny, itchy feeling in my groin. I felt like an addict coming down from a life-threatening high. This thing is potentially lethal.

Someone, puh-leeze, put "Plasma Is Dead" out of my misery. Ack! I can't stop reading, and it's taking over my life.

LOLOL...your killin me Cat..LOL

[Groundbeef]

LOLOL...your killin me Cat..LOL

I just got off the phone w/BB. I told them I was draggin my 50" Pioneer in for service. I explained I had the extended warrenty [wheew]. They asked what was wrong. I simply said "Plasma is dead".

I expect a full refund.

[kexodusc]

Man, I started to read this thread...

...then woke up the next morning with the taste of too much Sambuca in my mouth, no pants, no wallet, a splitting headache, and a funny, itchy feeling in my groin. I felt like an addict coming down from a life-threatening high. This thing is potentially lethal.

Someone, puh-leeze, put "Plasma Is Dead" out of my misery. Ack! I can't stop reading, and it's taking over my life.
LOL! You just described my bachelor party :ihih:

[Worf101]

If you guys fight this much over a "dead" format I'd hate to see what you do with a "live" one. Vive le difference as the Frenchies say.

Also,

"Da Winnah and... STILL Undisputed Heavyweight Champeen of Da World....... Woooooooochifer!!!!!!"

Da Worfster

[GMichael]

"Da Winnah and... STILL Undisputed Heavyweight Champeen of Da World....... Woooooooochifer!!!!!!"

Da Worfster

Wrong thread. See off topic for this vote.:hand:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Wrong thread. See off topic for this vote.:hand:

You topic nazi, shame on you:ciappa:

[GMichael]

You topic nazi, shame on you:ciappa:

I just want him to go vote in my poll.:ciappa:

You Pixylover.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I just want him to go vote in my poll.:ciappa:

You Pixylover.

Am not:prrr:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I just got off the phone w/BB. I told them I was draggin my 50" Pioneer in for service. I explained I had the extended warrenty [wheew]. They asked what was wrong. I simply said "Plasma is dead".

I expect a full refund.

See, I knew it was you who killed Plasma, you are going to telejail. :yesnod:

[GMichael]

Am not:prrr:

R2!...........:1:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Knock it off you two!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

R2!...........:1:

UR2 then:yesnod:

[GMichael]

UR2 then:yesnod:

Shhhh....

Mom has the wooden spoon out.:cryin:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Shhhh....

Mom has the wooden spoon out.:cryin:

Ma, back away from the spoon...come on girl step back.....ouch!:mad5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Don't disrespect your elders boys. I take your toys away and put them in MY house! :ihih:

[GMichael]

(Sir T and GM look at each other, nod, and then both of them shove Tex into the water cooler. Sir T pours an extra bottle of water over him. GM finds an old Lexmark toner and breaks it open over him)

Hey T, how about we go out out for a nice steak?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

(Sir T and GM look at each other, nod, and then both of them shove Tex into the water cooler. Sir T pours an extra bottle of water over him. GM finds an old Lexmark toner and breaks it open over him)

Hey T, how about we go out out for a nice steak?

I have just the place:thumbsup:...

[Luvin Da Blues]

(Sir T and GM look at each other, nod, and then both of them shove Tex into the water cooler.

Holy Smokes GM, you Americans must have huge water coolers.:skep: Up here in Canada we only have small coolers. And I just about said we had small ones:yikes: , good thing I caught that.:3:

[GMichael]

I have just the place:thumbsup:...

Cool. Do they make those blooming onions like at Outback?

[GMichael]

Holy Smokes GM, you Americans must have huge water coolers.:skep: Up here in Canada we only have small coolers. And I just about said we had small ones:yikes: , good thing I caught that.:3:


Yes we do, and I've heard you do.:ihih:

[Luvin Da Blues]

Yes we do, and I've heard you do.:ihih:

Ya but da ladies like it that we can hold our breath for 30 minutes:wink5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Why do you need to hold your breath for 30 minutes? I only need 2 or 3 before the house starts-a-rockin'! :prrr:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Just thought of something... pix is going to be sooooooo excited when he sees his thread is almost 80 posts long. :yesnod:

[Luvin Da Blues]

Why do you need to hold your breath for 30 minutes? I only need 2 or 3 before the house starts-a-rockin'! :prrr:

Ya, rockin' for you but the lady has needs to.:prrr:

[Groundbeef]

Ya but da ladies like it that we can hold our breath for 30 minutes:wink5:

Whats that do for the ladies? Unless they are 14,000 lbs, and live in the ocean. Oh my God. Your dating a whale? With any luck she's a HUMPback, and you might get some action.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Cool. Do they make those blooming onions like at Outback?

Outback!!!!! That is blooming sacreligious. Well, actually they make the baked potatoes look like nice breastises. And yeah, I have nipple anxiety.

[Luvin Da Blues]

Whats that do for the ladies? Unless they are 14,000 lbs, and live in the ocean. Oh my God. Your dating a whale? With any luck she's a HUMPback, and you might get some action.

:rolleyes5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Ya, rockin' for you but the lady has needs to.:prrr:
I meant the ladies you yahoo! :prrr: <== Keep your eye on the lapping tongue.

:smilewinkgrin:

[GMichael]

Ya but da ladies like it that we can hold our breath for 30 minutes:wink5:

They like it even more if you blow bubbles while you're at it.

[GMichael]

Outback!!!!! That is blooming sacreligious. Well, actually they make the baked potatoes look like nice breastises. And yeah, I have nipple anxiety.

I didn't say I liked their steaks. It's kind of hit & miss (mostly miss) for that. But they make those onions very well.
Nice anxiety. Are you a collector or just a window shopper?

[Luvin Da Blues]

They like it even more if you blow bubbles while you're at it.

:yesnod:

[Groundbeef]

I didn't say I liked their steaks. It's kind of hit & miss (mostly miss) for that. But they make those onions very well.
Nice anxiety. Are you a collector or just a window shopper?

Next time you are at outback, ask for fried mushrooms. But ask that they dip them in the onion batter. Its quite tasty. Has a bit of a pepper kick. At least where I live its "off menu" so you have to ask for them specifically to be dipped in the onion batter.

Alice Springs Chicken is pretty good there. I find if I want a really good steak, I cook one at home.

[GMichael]

Next time you are at outback, ask for fried mushrooms. But ask that they dip them in the onion batter. Its quite tasty. Has a bit of a pepper kick. At least where I live its "off menu" so you have to ask for them specifically to be dipped in the onion batter.

Alice Springs Chicken is pretty good there. I find if I want a really good steak, I cook one at home.

Now you're talking. There's a great old style butcher only about a mile from us. Once in a while we'll treat ourselves. A top of the line piece of meat for two doesn't add up to much more than $10. Slice up an onion, a yellow pepper and a few mushrooms. Sauté them in butter. Then I'll slice up a few of those red potatoes and make up some home fries.

Now you did it! I'm hungry again.

[Feanor]

Now you're talking. There's a great old style butcher only about a mile from us. Once in a while we'll treat ourselves. A top of the line piece of meat for two doesn't add up to much more than $10. Slice up an onion, a yellow pepper and a few mushrooms. Sauté them in butter. Then I'll slice up a few of those red potatoes and make up some home fries.

Now you did it! I'm hungry again.

Wine or beer? What's your favorite accompaniment to a great steak? Either works for me.

Any decent Melot or Cabernet Sauvignon, or a Sleeman Honey Brown Lager
...

[JSE]

Wine or beer? What's your favorite accompaniment to a great steak? Either works for me.

Any decent Melot or Cabernet Sauvignon, or a Sleeman Honey Brown Lager
...


First with the Friggin food. Now BEER?

You people of evil! :mad5:

[Groundbeef]

Wine or beer? What's your favorite accompaniment to a great steak? Either works for me.

Any decent Melot or Cabernet Sauvignon, or a Sleeman Honey Brown Lager
...

Really depends upon the occasion. My wife makes a mean mushroom/onion sauce with reduced merlot. That goes well with baked potatoes, and spinich suffle. That would call for a nice wine, and eating after the kiddies are tucked into bed.

For the outdoor grill/party I like the cool refeshing home brew. I might have a cherry-wheat, or a rasberry ale. Or a nice Pilsner if its real hot out.

If I have to drink store bought, Honey Brown is good. I've also come attached to a Linekugals summer wheat. Its got hints of orange, and some corriander in it. Almost spicy, and very refeshing.

And if we are having friends over that don't drink much beer, I'll settle on an MGD Lite. Its way better that Miller Lite, and the wife drinks it.

[GMichael]

Depends on my mood. But often, I will choose coffee. I grind up fresh Kona beans. I'm also not apposed to a little coffee additive. Kahlua, Baileys Irish Cream, or that coconut rum that Markw turned me on to all work great.
A shot of whipped cream in the cup before you pour in the coffee will hit the spot too.

[JSE]

And if we are having friends over that don't drink much beer, I'll settle on an MGD Lite. Its way better that Miller Lite, and the wife drinks it.

MGD Lite ain't have bad. It's no Shiner Bock but.......

I wish I could find Sleeman around here. When I get up to Michigan each summer, our friends the "canadians" bring a bunch down. Well, actually up. They are out of Windsor. Great Stuff. They bring the Honey and what I think is called Dark Original (?).

[Groundbeef]

MGD Lite ain't have bad. It's no Shiner Bock but.......

I wish I could find Sleeman around here. When I get up to Michigan each summer, our friends the "canadians" bring a bunch down. Well, actually up. They are out of Windsor. Great Stuff. They bring the Honey and what I think is called Dark Original (?).

No, its not "bad". But I have found that my taste in beer has shifted significantly from my college years. Back then Miller Lite was "High Class". Most drank Milwauke Best, although I couldn't stomach the crap.

I drank Icehouse, or Lite. Bud lite is little more than fizzy pee I think. Budwiser however, is pretty good.

[JSE]

Most drank Milwauke Best.

Ah, the beast! Good times.................good times. When your young and broke, there is nothing better. Well there is but back then I could not afford it.

We also used to drink Black Label and Red Label. Red Label was about a $1.50 per case more than Black Lable and thus, "premium". I think it was about $9 to $10 per case back then. Sometimes on sale for $7.

[Woochifer]

Milwaukee Light, Black Label, Miller Lite?! What trust funds were you guys raiding to afford that stuff? :2:

Man, my college roomies and I had to go to the truly low rent stuff -- "BEER" Think back to Repo Man and the liquor store that sold "DRINK" ... that was us! Of course, once I started hanging out with international students in grad school, it went from keggers to mixing sangria in 60 gallon trash cans! :crazy:

My grillin' specialty's tri-tip -- you haven't lived until you've had a Santa Maria-style BBQ. (Anyone traveling in Cali -- be sure to roll through Santa Maria on a Saturday afternoon, the mesquite pits are fired up everywhere w/ tri-tip sandwiches going for around $5) :cool:

[JSE]

Milwaukee Light, Black Label, Miller Lite?! What trust funds were you guys raiding to afford that stuff? :2:

Man, my college roomies and I had to go to the truly low rent stuff -- "BEER" Think back to Repo Man and the liquor store that sold "DRINK" ... that was us! Of course, once I started hanging out with international students in grad school, it went from keggers to mixing sangria in 60 gallon trash cans! :crazy:

My grillin' specialty's tri-tip -- you haven't lived until you've had a Santa Maria-style BBQ. (Anyone traveling in Cali -- be sure to roll through Santa Maria on a Saturday afternoon, the mesquite pits are fired up everywhere w/ tri-tip sandwiches going for around $5) :cool:


I'm sorry. Did you just say the words Santa Maria, CA and BBQ in the same sentence? :out:

[Woochifer]

I'm sorry. Did you just say the words Santa Maria, CA and BBQ in the same sentence? :out:

Yep, the tri-tip roast came from there ... weekend afternoons all year round, you can't drive more than a few blocks without bumping up on an oak mesquite pit selling tri-tip platters and sandwiches. Think if all those beloved taco trucks parked around Houston were instead BBQ pits, you'd have Santa Maria!

http://santamaria.com/visit/bbq_barbecue.html
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/tritip1.html

[GMichael]

Yep, the tri-tip roast came from there ... weekend afternoons all year round, you can't drive more than a few blocks without bumping up on an oak mesquite pit selling tri-tip platters and sandwiches. Think if all those beloved taco trucks parked around Houston were instead BBQ pits, you'd have Santa Maria!

http://santamaria.com/visit/bbq_barbecue.html
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/tritip1.html

I now have a mission for the weekend.

[L.J.]

Rum n Coke. That's what I be sippin' on...well most of the time. I make the wife some girlie stuff sometimes.

[kexodusc]

Rye....neat.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Gosh I missed a great conversation today! I had to friggin' work! :mad:

Where am I anyway? Oh. The "Plasma is Dead" thread. That's right.

So where do tri-tips come from Wooch? The Triceratops Dinosaur? Lemme go check into that on SVI's site... :biggrin5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Rum n Coke. That's what I be sippin' on...well most of the time. I make the wife some girlie stuff sometimes.
So most of the time you drink R & C, but sometimes you drink girlie drinks with the wife? Sissy! :ciappa:

[Groundbeef]

So most of the time you drink R & C, but sometimes you drink girlie drinks with the wife? Sissy! :ciappa:

Maybe his wife drinks Wild Turkey straight from the bottle. Who are you to judge?

[L.J.]

Maybe his wife drinks Wild Turkey straight from the bottle. Who are you to judge?

Actually it's Vodka!!

Girlie drink = Anything with juice in it.

You see fellas, sometimes LJ runs out of Rum n Coke at a very bad time (after I've had a few....I don't drink & drive ;) ) therefore I have to go to the back up plan.....Girlie Drinks :9:

[Woochifer]

So where do tri-tips come from Wooch? The Triceratops Dinosaur? Lemme go check into that on SVI's site... :biggrin5:

Shoulda known better than to talk fine cuisine with someone east of the Rockies! :wink5:

Trust me, once you sample tri-tip, you won't care where it came from! (All you'll know is that it's easy to find in Cali, and less easy elsewhere!) :eek6:

No different than when I tried "smoked meat" for the first time in Montreal. After that first sandwich, I didn't care what kind of meat I was eatin', all I knew was that it was good and I wanted more! (so good that I next went for the poutine -- gut bomb consisting of fries, cheese, smoked meat, and gravy -- on the next trip) :22:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Rum n Coke. That's what I be sippin' on...well most of the time. I make the wife some girlie stuff sometimes.

There you go dawg, keepin it simple. Me needs to take a trip to the LJ household.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Maybe his wife drinks Wild Turkey straight from the bottle. Who are you to judge?
Sorry I've been away for a while fellas. Internet Radio station Pink Floyd Rock-a-Roma's "KICKIN' OUT THE JAM'S MUTHA FVCKA!!!"

If she really is drinking Wild Turkey straight outta the bottle.. God bless her and pass the bottle. :thumbsup:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Shoulda known better than to talk fine cuisine with someone east of the Rockies! :wink5:
Okay. "East of the Rockies"... Where is that in relation to The Republic of Texas? :confused:


Trust me, once you sample tri-tip, you won't care where it came from! (All you'll know is that it's easy to find in Cali, and less easy elsewhere!) :eek6:
I won't argue with that, 'cause I've never heard of it either here in Texas or up in the Northeast.


No different than when I tried "smoked meat" for the first time in Montreal. After that first sandwich, I didn't care what kind of meat I was eatin', all I knew was that it was good and I wanted more! (so good that I next went for the poutine -- gut bomb consisting of fries, cheese, smoked meat, and gravy -- on the next trip) :22:
Gut bomb huh? :lol: You'd need a gut nuke to blow my belly out.

[O'Shag]

Wooch,

Isn't Andersens Restaurant in Santa Maria? They're famous for their split pea soup, which I've had there several times.

[filecat13]

Well, they've got tri-tip on sale at Albertson's this week, but it's not the same as buying it off a corner in Santa Maria. Still, I'll be grilling some this weekend with a couple of Mexican beers on the side.

BTW, Tri-tip, like plasma, is dead, but it sure tastes a lot better and, in this case, you really want it dead anyway.

[filecat13]

I forgot to mention my brewsky nostalgia growing up: Buckeye (Toledo), Strohs (Detroit) and Blatz (Milwaukee). All gone now...:sad:

Edit: Sorry, I meant DEAD, like plasma.

[bobsticks]

Shoulda known better than to talk fine cuisine with someone east of the Rockies! :wink5:

Boys, if you ever make it to Indy---though for the life of me I can't think of why you'd want to---gimme a jingle and I'll school ya on cuisine east of the Rockies.

http://www.stelmos.com/

Shrimp with wasabi coctail sauce...that's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Prawns as big as Shaq's middle finger.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Boys, if you ever make it to Indy---though for the life of me I can't think of why you'd want to---gimme a jingle and I'll school ya on cuisine east of the Rockies.

http://www.stelmos.com/

Shrimp with wasabi coctail sauce...that's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Prawns as big as Shaq's middle finger.
Indy 500... Brickyard 400.

Wasabi coctail sauce? Sounds flamin' :mad5: :devil:

[bobsticks]

Indy 500... Brickyard 400.

Wasabi coctail sauce? Sounds flamin' :mad5: :devil:

I suppose...

...and yeah it is. There's not even any point in ordering wine with the appetizer. That's why god invented the vodka-gimlet, plus the lime goes well with the shrimp (or that's the excuse).

[pixelthis]

First with the Friggin food. Now BEER?

You people of evil! :mad5:


They need to talk about something, and since they know nothing about HT...
And Michelob is THE beer, even tho beer with those kinds of hops give me a hangover headach (same with rolling rock)
And you havent eaten anything but dogfood untill you've gotten a slab of ribs from DREAMLAND in T-town:4:

[Rich-n-Texas]

I suppose...

...and yeah it is. There's not even any point in ordering wine with the appetizer. That's why god invented the vodka-gimlet, plus the lime goes well with the shrimp (or that's the excuse).
I wouldn't be ordering wine anyway. I'd be ordering ice cream. A LOT of ice cream. :eek6:

[GMichael]

I wouldn't be ordering wine anyway. I'd be ordering ice cream. A LOT of ice cream. :eek6:

Steak and ice cream wile watching a dead plazma?:1:

[compaqguy]

this is also the same person that thinks that Axiom and Paradigm are manufactured by the same company if memory serves me correctly.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

this is also the same person that thinks that Axiom and Paradigm are manufactured by the same company if memory serves me correctly.

I wouldn't be surprised quite frankly:rolleyes5:

[Ajani]

What is wrong with you idiots? Can't you read? The great Pix said that Plasma is dead!!! This should be a time of mourning, not BBQs and Beer!!!

Put on your funeral attire and get to grieving already!!!

[pixelthis]

What is wrong with you idiots? Can't you read? The great Pix said that Plasma is dead!!! This should be a time of mourning, not BBQs and Beer!!!

Put on your funeral attire and get to grieving already!!!



hAVENT you ever heard of a WAKE?

Besides, this is MY thread and if the clueless want to talk about putting even more insulation around their fat asses then fine with me.
Mans gotta eat:1:

[Woochifer]

Wooch,

Isn't Andersens Restaurant in Santa Maria? They're famous for their split pea soup, which I've had there several times.

Pea Soup Anderson's is in Buellton, which is about an hour south of Santa Maria. It's near Solvang, a funky little tourist town done up in Danish architecture. If you ever get a chance to do the California coastline drive up Highway 1 or 101, those will be very visible stops along the way. The tri-tip BBQs in Santa Maria are more of an informal local thing. There are some pretty good steakhouses in town as well, if you're not driving through town on a weekend during the day.


Well, they've got tri-tip on sale at Albertson's this week, but it's not the same as buying it off a corner in Santa Maria. Still, I'll be grilling some this weekend with a couple of Mexican beers on the side.

Definitely not the same -- for one thing, if you grill it at home, you're talking at least an hour's worth of grillin' time. With those corner BBQ stands out in Santa Maria, the slabs are already good to go, and it's all carved and served hot off the rack -- fast food don't get faster or better than that!

[Turbota]

This thread seems to have taken a turn somewhere ... Anyway, about Plasma ...

I am no expert, but I own both a Sharp Aquos 32" LCD and a Panasonic Viera 42" Plasma .... Playing back the same DVD movie on the same DVD player, I can tell you that with my own eyes, the Panasonic Viera Plasma has a better picture than the Sharp Aquos LCD. (both of these HDTVs are about 1 year old and both have the same resolution)

Just my opinion.

Ron,

[RoadRunner6]

That is probably one of the reasons why Vizio has just introduced a brand new 32" plasma TV! Your eyes do not deceive you Ron.

http://www.vizio.com/productDetails.aspx?id=1404&pid=1506

Plasma Has Risen ... Hallelujah !!!

Thank You Vizio, Thank You




RR6 :22:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Long live the Plasma!!!:cornut:

[Turbota]

Rich-n-Texas ....

Not to highjack this thread, but it looks like this thread has gone in various directions in the past ... so ... I see you have a Pontiac Trans-Am in your avatar.

Here are a couple of photos of my old 98 Trans-Am I sold before moving to the Philippines. It was a fun car!

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/TALeft.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/TAEngine1.jpg

[Rich-n-Texas]

Quite clean Ron. Very impressive. I was rich3fan on LS1.com when I joined in '98. My beast is a 2000 Formula w/T-tops, leather, Forgelines (in the garage), 3K stall, 3.73 gears, worked trans, other aftermarket mods, free mods... you know the rest. :yesnod:

I recall a bud on LS1 who moved overseas. Irregardles Ron, if you're piloting wonna them Apache's and you ever get to the JSFB near Ft. Worth, let me know. I know someone named Glenn who lives in White Settlement and can see LM's flight path.take me for a ride man!!!

BTW, who's thread was this anyway???

[Smokey]

BTW, who's thread was this anyway???

As usual, highjacked http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies2/thread%20jacked.gif

:D

[Turbota]

I recall a bud on LS1 who moved overseas.

Rich,
Small World ... That might have been me. I was one of the first members on LS1.Com and then went over to LS1Tech.Com later.

Used a few different usernames over those years ... Turbo6ta, Tin Indian, Kimchee and Rice

I was the guy that had those metal WS7 badges originally made while working in Korea (120 red and about 20 blue badges).

Ron, (now retired in the Philippines) :)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/Turbo6ta/TARear.jpg

[Rich-n-Texas]

Small world is right dude. I remember a Kimchee and Rice (I also think I remember one on alt.autos.pontiac) somwhere along the line way back ten years ago. I've lived in Texas for 11 years. Nevertheless, I still have my racer (12.98 @ 104 mph at the 'Plex in Y2K) and it's slowly... "Coming Back to Life". :thumbsup:

[neotech888]

nice whip, why did you sell it?

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=RoadRunner6]That is probably one of the reasons why Vizio has just introduced a brand new 32" plasma TV! Your eyes do not deceive you Ron.

http://www.vizio.com/productDetails.aspx?id=1404&pid=1506

Plasma Has Risen ... Hallelujah !!!

Thank You Vizio, Thank You




RR6 :22:

[pixelthis]

[QUOTE=Smokey]As usual, highjacked http://i.slickdeals.net/images/smilies2/thread%20jacked.gif

:D

[GTF]

"You're joking , right? This old bugaboo never was much of a problem and with 120 hz sets has been done away with entirely.
But you don't even need that, an eight millisecond refresh rate does away with it quite
nicely, and there are FOUR millisecond sets out there if that still ain't enough.
Why don't you bring up the old "screen door" crap while you're at it?
I am about five feet away from my set and cant discern ANY pixel structure whatsoever."

Sorry pixelthis but I don't agree.
My SONY KV-34XBR crt broke a few months ago.
I went to a number of store's looking for a replacement for it.
The expense for repairing the set was to high.
After sending many hours looking at the latest flat panel display's I wasn't very happy.
DLP's I don't like rainbows which watching TV.
Plasma had the best picture with reasonable black detail levels.
LCD barely OK black detail levels, BUT even on the 120hz refresh unit's motion artifacts were a GREAT BIG turnoff. YUCK
Maybe you can't see them or you don't want to see them but their there.
Other then size and weight not one came close to the old archaic CRT.
I took a chance and repaired the TV myself.

We will be very disappointed when our CRT set finally dies and you are right about Plasma and we would be stuck with such an inferior product for television watching such as an LCD set.

As for the screen door effect. I won't mention it for you.

[pixelthis]

"You're joking , right? This old bugaboo never was much of a problem and with 120 hz sets has been done away with entirely.
But you don't even need that, an eight millisecond refresh rate does away with it quite
nicely, and there are FOUR millisecond sets out there if that still ain't enough.
Why don't you bring up the old "screen door" crap while you're at it?
I am about five feet away from my set and cant discern ANY pixel structure whatsoever."

Sorry pixelthis but I don't agree.
My SONY KV-34XBR crt broke a few months ago.
I went to a number of store's looking for a replacement for it.
The expense for repairing the set was to high.
After sending many hours looking at the latest flat panel display's I wasn't very happy.
DLP's I don't like rainbows which watching TV.
Plasma had the best picture with reasonable black detail levels.
LCD barely OK black detail levels, BUT even on the 120hz refresh unit's motion artifacts were a GREAT BIG turnoff. YUCK
Maybe you can't see them or you don't want to see them but their there.
Other then size and weight not one came close to the old archaic CRT.
I took a chance and repaired the TV myself.

We will be very disappointed when our CRT set finally dies and you are right about Plasma and we would be stuck with such an inferior product for television watching such as an LCD set.

As for the screen door effect. I won't mention it for you.


Thanks for not mentioning something that doesnt exist?
Early projection lcd sets were like looking through a "screen door",
no set has had that problem in a decade.
Its caused by too large a space between the pixels.
MY current set has two million pixels, do you know how big that set would have to be for me to discern any pixel structure?.
I am sitting about four feet from mine now, its running about 1200x900
and I cant see pixel one, doubt a HAWK COULD.
And with a five ms response time , well, that is well beyond the abilities
of the eye to resolve.
Most likely you don't know what "motion blur" is no more than "screen door effect" and are confusing something else with it.
As for your old tube set, waste your money if you want on something that has a few years left.
SOMETHING WILL BREAK ON IT in about six months, trust me, that is one of the reasons the industry went to more durable than repairable.
Fix something and you change values that old parts are worn into, the new values will cause something to fail, in about six months.
And then you can buy a plasma, just be sure the "jog" circuit is on so
you dont have screen burn in.
AND dont sit too close, they emit ultraviolet radiation.:1:

[GTF]

Thanks for not mentioning something that doesnt exist?
Early projection lcd sets were like looking through a "screen door",
no set has had that problem in a decade.
Its caused by too large a space between the pixels.
MY current set has two million pixels, do you know how big that set would have to be for me to discern any pixel structure?.
I am sitting about four feet from mine now, its running about 1200x900
and I cant see pixel one, doubt a HAWK COULD.
And with a five ms response time , well, that is well beyond the abilities
of the eye to resolve.
Most likely you don't know what "motion blur" is no more than "screen door effect" and are confusing something else with it.
As for your old tube set, waste your money if you want on something that has a few years left.
SOMETHING WILL BREAK ON IT in about six months, trust me, that is one of the reasons the industry went to more durable than repairable.
Fix something and you change values that old parts are worn into, the new values will cause something to fail, in about six months.
And then you can buy a plasma, just be sure the "jog" circuit is on so
you dont have screen burn in.
AND dont sit too close, they emit ultraviolet radiation.:1:

I know it's going to break again.
That concern's me greatly.
I haven't seen a plat panel of any type that comes close to that old archaic CRT.
I could not stand to watch football or basketball or auto racing or anything for that matter where the camera pans quickly on any LCD screen I have seen.
Plasma's aren't bad, but LCD's look awful.
If that doesn't concern you your lucky.
Just like I am one of those that see's rainbow's on DLP's.
When I first saw a DLP I was mesmerized.
I also thought at first, Wow look at that special effect in their demo program.
Their showing us the colors of the rainbow.
Imagine that I thought it was a special effect! LOL
I don't like the focus shift on them either.

Hopefully some day their will be a better alternative to the CRT, but not today.

[Feanor]

...
I haven't seen a plat panel of any type that comes close to that old archaic CRT.
...
Hopefully some day their will be a better alternative to the CRT, but not today.

These comments won't stop me from buying a plasma. :thumbsup:

[GTF]

These comments won't stop me from buying a plasma. :thumbsup:


Of course not.
When the crt set dies, in comes a Plasma.
Unless of course by then something better comes along.
Until then. To may eye's.
I like Plasma better then DLP or LCD.

[02audionoob]

Even rear-projection CRT looks as good as LCD.

[pixelthis]

I know it's going to break again.
That concern's me greatly.
I haven't seen a plat panel of any type that comes close to that old archaic CRT.
I could not stand to watch football or basketball or auto racing or anything for that matter where the camera pans quickly on any LCD screen I have seen.
Plasma's aren't bad, but LCD's look awful.
If that doesn't concern you your lucky.
Just like I am one of those that see's rainbow's on DLP's.
When I first saw a DLP I was mesmerized.
I also thought at first, Wow look at that special effect in their demo program.
Their showing us the colors of the rainbow.
Imagine that I thought it was a special effect! LOL
I don't like the focus shift on them either.

Hopefully some day their will be a better alternative to the CRT, but not today.


That doesnt concern me because its just your opinion.
Its basically what you're used to.
And you're used to the softer picture of a CRT.
i bekeive you said you had a 34", which is "high def", most of these
would resolve around 700 lines of res(whicj is different than the scan lines).
My set, which is progressive, has 380 more lines of res than yours on
'a bad day.
MY ELECTRONICS teacher told the class once that a NTSC TV set,
with 480 interlaced scan lines, would rarely show more than 300-350
lines, if that.
Two things made the picture appear better than it was, the large amount of colors, and the minds ability to "fill in the gaps".
Watch DVD'S ? hdtv?
Well, go back and watch a VHS tape sometimes, with its 230 lines of res, its quite a revelation, really, you will wonder how you ever watched
one.
The reasons you dont like a true HD panel is that you are not used to it,
and you probably dont know how to set it up properly.
Same thing happened when CD came out, so called "audiophiles"
swore up and down that a turntable sounded better in spite of the obvious superiority of CD, even when recording engineers profess the
advantages of the medium they refuse to listen.
Same way with vaccume tube amps, which supposedly sound "warmer" than "sterile" solid state.
A fuzzy soft picture isnt more "filmlike", its a fuzzy, simple as that.
if CRT is so "superior" then why didnt it win the market?
Because the vast majority buying LCD are impaired in some way?
They don't have your "superior " taste and judgement in video
presentation?
I guess that makes you better than them.
And that is the crux of the issue, snubbing a form factor that the majority prefer is a form of snobbery, poor little ignoramuses,
too bad they dont have you superiour taste .
Truth is, give a douoble blind test, most couldnt tell the difference
between an LCD or a plasma, when my brother got a plasma the most striking thing about it to me was how close the picture was to my (then)
720p!
The differences between teh two formats are slight, when plasma first came out the main complaints were lack of black level, "cartoon faces"(a problem that still persists) and rediclous cost.
people touting Plasma today talk about its "great black level" , etc,
nevere anything you can measure reliably, like the light it puts out,
color purity, picture sharpness, etc.
And they never can explain why LCD sells like hotcakes and is taking over the market.
Too bad the "great unwashed" dont have their superiour discernment.:1:

[pixelthis]

Even rear-projection CRT looks as good as LCD.

NOW YOU SEE, that is just plain funny.
My friend cusses me on a regular basis because I sold him a 47" SAMSUNG "tabletop" rptv, the room practically has to be dark to see it.
Again its what your brain is used to.
After owning an LCD for awhile I stopped into Walmart to see what a 999$ DLP looked like.
And over here in the corner was an rca 60" RPTV HDTV.
Price? FIVE HUNDRED BUCKS.
You could barely make out the picture it was so dim.
Having owned three RPTV'S I never noticed just how dim they were,
I was used to them is why.
Now you can spout this nonsense if you want, I know good and well you would never allow an RPTV into your house, even tho you can now get the last remaining models (if you can find one) for a few hundred bucks.
Of course you will never put your money where your mouth is because
there isnt enough money in the world to cover that much mouth.:1:

[02audionoob]

I'm not sure why posters in this forum so easily resort to a rude or aggressive approach, but that aside...My 46-inch Sony LCD just isn't exactly blowing me away. I know the technology has improved since the days when mine was made, but I wish this thing's picture didn't constantly remind me it's digital.

[GTF]

That doesnt concern me because its just your opinion.
Its basically what you're used to.
And you're used to the softer picture of a CRT.
i bekeive you said you had a 34", which is "high def", most of these
would resolve around 700 lines of res(whicj is different than the scan lines).
My set, which is progressive, has 380 more lines of res than yours on
'a bad day.
MY ELECTRONICS teacher told the class once that a NTSC TV set,
with 480 interlaced scan lines, would rarely show more than 300-350
lines, if that.
Two things made the picture appear better than it was, the large amount of colors, and the minds ability to "fill in the gaps".
Watch DVD'S ? hdtv?
Well, go back and watch a VHS tape sometimes, with its 230 lines of res, its quite a revelation, really, you will wonder how you ever watched
one.
The reasons you dont like a true HD panel is that you are not used to it,
and you probably dont know how to set it up properly.
Same thing happened when CD came out, so called "audiophiles"
swore up and down that a turntable sounded better in spite of the obvious superiority of CD, even when recording engineers profess the
advantages of the medium they refuse to listen.
Same way with vaccume tube amps, which supposedly sound "warmer" than "sterile" solid state.
A fuzzy soft picture isnt more "filmlike", its a fuzzy, simple as that.
if CRT is so "superior" then why didnt it win the market?
Because the vast majority buying LCD are impaired in some way?
They don't have your "superior " taste and judgement in video
presentation?
I guess that makes you better than them.
And that is the crux of the issue, snubbing a form factor that the majority prefer is a form of snobbery, poor little ignoramuses,
too bad they dont have you superiour taste .
Truth is, give a douoble blind test, most couldnt tell the difference
between an LCD or a plasma, when my brother got a plasma the most striking thing about it to me was how close the picture was to my (then)
720p!
The differences between teh two formats are slight, when plasma first came out the main complaints were lack of black level, "cartoon faces"(a problem that still persists) and rediclous cost.
people touting Plasma today talk about its "great black level" , etc,
nevere anything you can measure reliably, like the light it puts out,
color purity, picture sharpness, etc.
And they never can explain why LCD sells like hotcakes and is taking over the market.
Too bad the "great unwashed" dont have their superiour discernment.:1:

The set is a 1080i.
So it has plenty of scan lines and resolution.
They don't broadcast 1080p and so far it looks like they never will.
I'm not going Blueray so the p is useless.
I don't think Blueray will be around long enough to make it worthwhile to buy into it.

The reason the lost the market is because making large picture tubes is expensive and their very, very heavy.
They are really hard to hang on a wall.
I know they are a dead issue. They are still the picture quality King.

I watched the F1 race this morning.
Do you know how poorly fast motion and LCD go together?
I can stand it. That's why I still have a tube set.
Some day something pass it by.
Just not today.

[RoadRunner6]

the vast majority buying LCD are impaired

(Quote from Viziothis)

RR6 :D :D :D

[RoadRunner6]

Power Consumption
All Panasonic plasmas are Energy Star® compliant insuring low power
consumption in standby mode (a mere 18 watts), when compared with non-
Energy Star® models. The maximum power consumption during use depends
on screen size; the 42-inch diagonal models, for example, are rated at 385
watts maximum. However, typical power consumption is much lower and
varies depending on picture content and display settings such as brightness
and contrast. With typical content and display settings, Panasonic plasmas
have virtually the same power consumption as similar-sized LCD TVs.

...what did he say?

With typical content and display settings, Panasonic plasmas
have virtually the same power consumption as similar-sized LCD TVs.

...oh, that's what I thought he said (nyuk, nyuk, nyuk).

RR6 ... beep-beep :D

[bobsticks]

Y'know, I recognise that but for the grace of God I'm living in a mudhut in Afghanistan and all that, and I'm thankful and aware of all the blessings that we in the industrialized nations have...

...but y'all are talkin about a few watts. You're not talking about the choice between a Passat and a Hummer, the choice between bagging with plastic or re-usable synthetics or anything else that would make a substanitive difference. It's a few watts.

This doesn't even reach the level of dumb argumentation.

[RoadRunner6]

Soitenly

:lol:

[pixelthis]

the vast majority buying LCD are impaired

(Quote from Viziothis)

RR6 :D :D :D


QUIT SHOUTING.
Talk about "impairment"
Its clear that time is going to wound all heels on this one.
If you're buying Plasma go ahead, hopefully you wont need
plasma when that toy of yours falls off the wall.
This is going to be a long march kinda deal, the future is going to determine what happened, and who was right.:1:

[Duds]

Hey Trixie - what happens to an LCD when it falls off a wall?

and by the way, plasmas kick the licing piss out of lcds!!!

[Rich-n-Texas]

Hey Trixie...

AH HA HA HA HA HA!

I can say with almost certain conviction that that one has not yet been used. Two cookies for you Duds! :lol:

[Duds]

LOL!! thanks Rich!!

man he is a whack job. He still hasnt answered my question how i can get a highly regarded 42 inch panny plasma for less than a 37 in sony lcd. I'd take the panny plasma any day of the week, and I'd even pay more for it.


AH HA HA HA HA HA!

I can say with almost certain conviction that that one has not yet been used. Two cookies for you Duds! :lol:

[Rich-n-Texas]

DAMMIT!!! This page took so long to load I forgot what I was gonna say. :idea:

[GMichael]

It was something about inches, girth and weight.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'll sleep on it and get back to ya later.

[GMichael]

Will JM thank you later?

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm uncomfortable with the direction this thread has taken.

[GMichael]

Try moving a little to the right. Yeah, that's it.

[pixelthis]

LOL!! thanks Rich!!

man he is a whack job. He still hasnt answered my question how i can get a highly regarded 42 inch panny plasma for less than a 37 in sony lcd. I'd take the panny plasma any day of the week, and I'd even pay more for it.


Don't worry about that.
As for your question it wont be long before a plasma anything
will be cheaper than any other tech.
You are too dumb to figure it out but your form factor being a loss leader is not a good thing.
MEANS THERES LESS DEMAND.
Not to mention that Sony demands a premium on their stuff due to their name.
So take your plasma DUD (what a fitting name) you will pay more for it, in electricity, repair bills, and short lifespan.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

:19: :19: :19:

:10: It's medication time.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Uhhh... Smokey's not going to be very happy that you kidnapped his nurse. Now how's he gonna get his meds??? :nonod:

[RoadRunner6]

Doesn't she have a sweet face?

[Rich-n-Texas]

She's such a darling. :o

[Smokey]

Uhhh... Smokey's not going to be very happy that you kidnapped his nurse. Now how's he gonna get his meds??? :nonod:

Don't worry. We have SpongeBath Betty filling in :D

http://www.westvegas.com/las_vegas_strip/UP_SPONGE_BATH_BETTY.jpg

[pixelthis]

Don't worry. We have SpongeBath Betty filling in :D

http://www.westvegas.com/las_vegas_strip/UP_SPONGE_BATH_BETTY.jpg


You sure thats not a dude?:1:

[Smokey]

You sure thats not a dude?:1:

Compare with nurse Rathed, Betty is an improvement :hand:

[pixelthis]

Compare with nurse Rathed, Betty is an improvement :hand:

SHE AINT BAD, but I work in a hospital and afraid I am a bit spoiled:1:

[GMichael]

Anyone want their temperature checked?

[bobsticks]

I'm very comfortable with the direction this thread has taken.

[RoadRunner6]

To get back on topic here. I've always liked a horizontal center channel on top of my plasma.

RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

It's hard to remember what this thread was about due to all the Plasma success stories ya know? I don't even remember who started it.

Irregardless, I'm also comfortable with the direction this thread had taken.

[RoadRunner6]

Anyone want their temperature checked?

New miracle bustout cure for ED.

RR6 :D

[pixelthis]

It's hard to remember what this thread was about due to all the Plasma success stories ya know? I don't even remember who started it.

Irregardless, I'm also comfortable with the direction this thread had taken.


Then something has gone horribly wrong
Rich is comfortable! what are we gonna DO?:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Here is another opportunity to gawk at GMichael's nurse (look up) while I tell you that I just got back from Costco. The 42" panasonic 1080p plasma is down to $899. HDTV prices are dropping almost as fast as the Dow!

RR6 :biggrin5:

[Rich-n-Texas]

Then something has gone horribly wrong
Rich is comfortable! what are we gonna DO?:1:
Ha ha ha ha :lol: How did I miss this?

That was some pretty funny sh!t pix.:3:

[pixelthis]

Here is another opportunity to gawk at GMichael's nurse (look up) while I tell you that I just got back from Costco. The 42" panasonic 1080p plasma is down to $899. HDTV prices are dropping almost as fast as the Dow!

RR6 :biggrin5:


THE FOOLS!
ALL these buyers of plasma
They've all gone mad I tell you, mad!!!:1:

[pixelthis]

Here is another opportunity to gawk at GMichael's nurse (look up) while I tell you that I just got back from Costco. The 42" panasonic 1080p plasma is down to $899. HDTV prices are dropping almost as fast as the Dow!

RR6 :biggrin5:

Actually these is a reason for dropping plasma prices, such as reduced demand and an attempt to keep up with LCD, which is much
cheaper to make.
Great bargains if you want a DEAD format.:1:

[pixelthis]

Ha ha ha ha :lol: How did I miss this?

That was some pretty funny sh!t pix.:3:
FUNNY?!
WHAAA...???:1:

[pixelthis]

Ha ha ha ha :lol: How did I miss this?

That was some pretty funny sh!t pix.:3:

He likes me! He really likes me!
I hope we can be friends!:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Actually these is a reason for dropping plasma prices, such as reduced demand and an attempt to keep up with LCD, which is much
cheaper to make. Great bargains if you want a DEAD format.:1:

News clip from Sound and Vision Magazine

October 10, 2008
Boomtime for Plasma
Even with the global economy on increasingly shaky ground, a new study out of China shows that — not only are plasma sales booming as LCD sales fall — plasma sales are actually hitting historical highs.

While you can debate on which is better/cheaper/blacker/thinner/sexier/brighter, it seems plasma sales are going strong, according to a report from DisplaySearch, a market research firm.

Is it technology-driven, or an effect of the economy?

Part of it's simple supply and demand. Samsung and LG both shipped more plasma units recently. As a result, the prices for similar sized screens favor plasma over LCD, by about 25%. In this economy, who doesn't want to save 25%?

In most viewing rooms, plasma works fine, and with better prices, why wouldn't sales be booming? —Leslie Shapiro

RR6 :ciappa: :ciappa: :ciappa:

[Duds]

awesome!!! I hate to say it though, this still wont make that tard shut up.


News clip from Sound and Vision Magazine

October 10, 2008
Boomtime for Plasma
Even with the global economy on increasingly shaky ground, a new study out of China shows that — not only are plasma sales booming as LCD sales fall — plasma sales are actually hitting historical highs.

While you can debate on which is better/cheaper/blacker/thinner/sexier/brighter, it seems plasma sales are going strong, according to a report from DisplaySearch, a market research firm.

Is it technology-driven, or an effect of the economy?

Part of it's simple supply and demand. Samsung and LG both shipped more plasma units recently. As a result, the prices for similar sized screens favor plasma over LCD, by about 25%. In this economy, who doesn't want to save 25%?

In most viewing rooms, plasma works fine, and with better prices, why wouldn't sales be booming? —Leslie Shapiro

RR6 :ciappa: :ciappa: :ciappa:

[pixelthis]

awesome!!! I hate to say it though, this still wont make that tard shut up.

NOPE.
The truth is the truth:1:

[Duds]

LCD IS DEAD!!!! LCD IS DEAD!!!



News clip from Sound and Vision Magazine

October 10, 2008
Boomtime for Plasma
Even with the global economy on increasingly shaky ground, a new study out of China shows that — not only are plasma sales booming as LCD sales fall — plasma sales are actually hitting historical highs.

While you can debate on which is better/cheaper/blacker/thinner/sexier/brighter, it seems plasma sales are going strong, according to a report from DisplaySearch, a market research firm.

Is it technology-driven, or an effect of the economy?

Part of it's simple supply and demand. Samsung and LG both shipped more plasma units recently. As a result, the prices for similar sized screens favor plasma over LCD, by about 25%. In this economy, who doesn't want to save 25%?

In most viewing rooms, plasma works fine, and with better prices, why wouldn't sales be booming? —Leslie Shapiro

RR6 :ciappa: :ciappa: :ciappa:

[GTF]

LCD IS DEAD!!!! LCD IS DEAD!!!

Hi Ho the Cherry-O,
the LCD is dead.

The LCD is dead.

The LCD is dead.

Hi Ho Cherry-O
The LCD is dead!

[pixelthis]

Hi Ho the Cherry-O,
the LCD is dead.

The LCD is dead.

The LCD is dead.

Hi Ho Cherry-O
The LCD is dead!

And your little dog too!
:1:

[pixelthis]

LCD IS DEAD!!!! LCD IS DEAD!!!


The only thing "dead" around here is between your ears.:1:

[pixelthis]

News clip from Sound and Vision Magazine

October 10, 2008
Boomtime for Plasma
Even with the global economy on increasingly shaky ground, a new study out of China shows that — not only are plasma sales booming as LCD sales fall — plasma sales are actually hitting historical highs.

While you can debate on which is better/cheaper/blacker/thinner/sexier/brighter, it seems plasma sales are going strong, according to a report from DisplaySearch, a market research firm.

Is it technology-driven, or an effect of the economy?

Part of it's simple supply and demand. Samsung and LG both shipped more plasma units recently. As a result, the prices for similar sized screens favor plasma over LCD, by about 25%. In this economy, who doesn't want to save 25%?

In most viewing rooms, plasma works fine, and with better prices, why wouldn't sales be booming? —Leslie Shapiro

RR6 :ciappa: :ciappa: :ciappa:


YEP, lower the price a "tad" and sucker in the cheapskates.
And the sad thing is that in the long run their plasma will cost more
Which wouldn't be too bad if the pic was better.
What kinda brainwashed zombie buys a 720p set instead of a 1080p
in a mistaken attempt at "more" Q?:1:

(brain washed zombies...)

[RoadRunner6]

What kinda brainwashed zombie buys a 720p set instead of a 1080p

Well, maybe the brainwashed zombies that bought the Pioneer PD-5080HD. Home Theater Magazine earlier this year had a shootout among 7 HDTV's from Samsung, Sharp, JVC, Mitsubishi, Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer. It consisted of two LCDs, two plasmas, two DLPs, and an LCOS. 6 of the 7 TV's were 1080p and only 1 was 768p.

I won't tell you which one was the winner so you can read the test and find out. However, I'll give you a hint from the text of the review:

"Last was a dark-horse candidate, Pioneer's KURO PDP-5080HD. At $3,500, it costs just as much as the other flat panels here, but it was only 768p. Now how could that compete. . ."

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index.html

RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

[Duds]

I spent yesterday watching football on my brother's 5080......freakin amazing picture. That's the tv I was going to buy but unfrotunately you cant find them anymore. My bro didnt pay anywhere near that $3500 price, so dont even go there Trixie Dixie...bwahahahhaha!!!


Well, maybe the brainwashed zombies that bought the Pioneer PD-5080HD. Home Theater Magazine earlier this year had a shootout among 7 HDTV's from Samsung, Sharp, JVC, Mitsubishi, Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer. It consisted of two LCDs, two plasmas, two DLPs, and an LCOS. 6 of the 7 TV's were 1080p and only 1 was 768p.

I won't tell you which one was the winner so you can read the test and find out. However, I'll give you a hint from the text of the review:

"Last was a dark-horse candidate, Pioneer's KURO PDP-5080HD. At $3,500, it costs just as much as the other flat panels here, but it was only 768p. Now how could that compete. . ."

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index.html

RR6 :biggrin5: :biggrin5: :biggrin5:

[Duds]

Hmmm, interesting. I guess using your logic (if there is any logic at all in your tiny little mind) the previous lower price of LCDs has been "suckering the cheapskates" all along now....

and the "brainwashed zombies" buying 720p tv's are the ones who realize the only true source for 1080p these days is blu-ray. Consumers who want an HDTV for hi-def tv broadcasts only are being smart in buying a 720p tv.


YEP, lower the price a "tad" and sucker in the cheapskates.
And the sad thing is that in the long run their plasma will cost more
Which wouldn't be too bad if the pic was better.
What kinda brainwashed zombie buys a 720p set instead of a 1080p
in a mistaken attempt at "more" Q?:1:

(brain washed zombies...)

[Feanor]

Hmmm, interesting. I guess using your logic (if there is any logic at all in your tiny little mind) the previous lower price of LCDs has been "suckering the cheapskates" all along now....

and the "brainwashed zombies" buying 720p tv's are the ones who realize the only true source for 1080p these days is blu-ray. Consumers who want an HDTV for hi-def tv broadcasts only are being smart in buying a 720p tv.

As a person with a strong inclination to cheapskatiness, (or aversion to even more debt), I have yet to buy an HDTV. Were my aged CRT to poop out, (and I yearn for that), I'd be financially constrained to buy a 42" 720p plasma even though I'd much prefer a 47" 1080p plasma. It would be a rational decision given I wouldn't be getting into BluRay immediately for the same, cheapskate reason.

[Duds]

Trust me, at 42" you definitely do not need 1080p if you arent goign to immediately get into blu-ray. even at a 50 inch, you dont need 1080p unless you were going to be sitting like 6 feet from the set


As a person with a strong inclination to cheapskatiness, (or aversion to even more debt), I have yet to buy and HDTV. Were my aged CRT were to poop out, (and I yearn for that), I'd be financially constrained to buy a 42" 720p plasma even though I'd much prefer a 47" 1080p plasma. It would be a rational decision given I wouldn't be getting into BluRay immediately for the same, cheapskate reason.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Well, if plasma is dead, it came alive just long enough for my best friend to buy a 50" Pioneer Kuro's, and me to buy a 60" Kuro's. No LCD can approach the performance of this television, I do not care what brand it is.

[Duds]

SWEET!!! congrats on the purchases!! did you guys go with the 5020 and 6020? i'm probably going to pick up the 5020 soon, unless the Elite models have a serious price drop.


Well, if plasma is dead, it came alive just long enough for my best friend to buy a 50" Pioneer Kuro's, and me to buy a 60" Kuro's. No LCD can approach the performance of this television, I do not care what brand it is.

[RoadRunner6]

and me to buy a 60" Kuro's.

Lay off Sir Terrence, you're making us all turn green. :biggrin5:

RR6

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Lay off Sir Terrence, you're making us all turn green. :biggrin5:

RR6

RR, you should have seen how much green was left behind when we bought them. Dem tings are not cheap!!!

[RoadRunner6]

Yeah but there is absolutely no better flat panel out there! Why do think I bought the $999 Panny? I need to save every dime I can. The motor home we are saving for costs as much as one of Florian's speakers (well, almost as much!).

RR6

[bobsticks]

Well, if plasma is dead, it came alive just long enough for my best friend to buy a 50" Pioneer Kuro's, and me to buy a 60" Kuro's. No LCD can approach the performance of this television, I do not care what brand it is.

Nice purchase T. That's my dawg.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Nice purchase T. That's my dawg.

Wow, an approval from Grand Master Sticks. I am so not worthy:D

[bobsticks]

C'mon bro, you know yer tha Video Love Guru...sittin' there, playin "Nine To Five" on the Sitar, watchin' that bad boi plasma...that's the mang.

[pixelthis]

Wow, an approval from Grand Master Sticks. I am so not worthy:D

no YOU ARE NOT WORTHY.
AND if you think that 3500$ toy was "expensive" wait until you get "down the road" a bit.
REALLY if you spend this kinda cash you can make any kind of rube Goldberg device look halfway decent.
BUT you are in the minority, most would not plunk down this much cash for a set these days, and LCD is still outselling plasma.
Enjoy YOUR "DEAD" formaT.:1:

[pixelthis]

Hmmm, interesting. I guess using your logic (if there is any logic at all in your tiny little mind) the previous lower price of LCDs has been "suckering the cheapskates" all along now....

and the "brainwashed zombies" buying 720p tv's are the ones who realize the only true source for 1080p these days is blu-ray. Consumers who want an HDTV for hi-def tv broadcasts only are being smart in buying a 720p tv.

Everything looks better in 1080p.
AND blu is the future, you always embrarass yourself when you open your mouth.
A TV is a longtime purchase, if you get a 720p you are locking
yourself out of one of the best formats in the near future.
AND the DISH already has 1080p ppv.
How much is 1080P taking over?
Look at the "shootout" from HT mag that roadkill posted in his message.
The "winner" of this "shootout" was a Pioneer Kuro, at 3500 bucks.
Guess what? ITS 720P!
This was in march.
Would you pay 3500 bucks for a 720p set?
This is how fast 1080p is becoming prevalent, this is how much a
720p set cost SIX MONTHS AGO.
plasma is dead , and guess what?
SO IS 720P :1:

[pixelthis]

Well, if plasma is dead, it came alive just long enough for my best friend to buy a 50" Pioneer Kuro's, and me to buy a 60" Kuro's. No LCD can approach the performance of this television, I do not care what brand it is.


MORE "vaporware" from talky.
You can park it next to all of your "other" equipment.:1:

[Duds]

Hey bonehead, the $3500 price for the 5080 is the msrp you dolt. That tv was selling well below that 6 months ago. Do you realize that it won the shootout even though its a 720p set and it was being compared to some 1080p sets, including lcds? are you really that ignorant?

And like i said, if you arent a movie watcher, like myself, there is no reason for 1080p right now. OK, so DISH has 1080p pay-per-view. I'm assuming those are PPV MOVIES, which i do not watch, therefore there is no reason for me to have 1080p. Unfortunately the new Pioneer tvs are all 1080p, so thats what I will get. BUT, if the 5080 was still available, I would most certainly buy that tv.

I'd love to put the 5080 up against your hunk of sh*t Vizio, you would get destroyed in every way.


Everything looks better in 1080p.
AND blu is the future, you always embrarass yourself when you open your mouth.
A TV is a longtime purchase, if you get a 720p you are locking
yourself out of one of the best formats in the near future.
AND the DISH already has 1080p ppv.
How much is 1080P taking over?
Look at the "shootout" from HT mag that roadkill posted in his message.
The "winner" of this "shootout" was a Pioneer Kuro, at 3500 bucks.
Guess what? ITS 720P!
This was in march.
Would you pay 3500 bucks for a 720p set?
This is how fast 1080p is becoming prevalent, this is how much a
720p set cost SIX MONTHS AGO.
plasma is dead , and guess what?
SO IS 720P :1:

[Duds]

so what one did you get, the 6020 or one of the Elite models?


Wow, an approval from Grand Master Sticks. I am so not worthy:D

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

MORE "vaporware" from talky.
You can park it next to all of your "other" equipment.:1:

Man, green is not your color even though you have been wearing it for months. Remember Pixie, I have a real job, so I am far less concerned about price than you are. I get what I want, not sit around being jealous of what others have, or what they can spend. If you didn't spend so much time dumpster diving you could have a real job too.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

so what one did you get, the 6020 or one of the Elite models?

Duds, I got the PRO-141FD Kuro Elite. Its their professional model developed for the film studios. Disney is starting to install these all over the studio, I saw one, asked where they got them.

[Duds]

wow, very nice choice!!!! congrats!!


Duds, I got the PRO-141FD Kuro Elite. Its their professional model developed for the film studios. Disney is starting to install these all over the studio, I saw one, asked where they got them.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

wow, very nice choice!!!! congrats!!

Thanks man. This is the first flat panel that I really liked. I hate the way LCD look. Makes skin textures look plastic and unnatural. However when I saw the Kuro's, I was blown away. No lag, excellent blacks, accurate color decoder, excellent gamma track, perfect greyscale, all the things the LCD panels lack.

[Duds]

I agree, plasmas look so much better to me than LCD, especially the Kuros.


Thanks man. This is the first flat panel that I really liked. I hate the way LCD look. Makes skin textures look plastic and unnatural. However when I saw the Kuro's, I was blown away. No lag, excellent blacks, accurate color decoder, excellent gamma track, perfect greyscale, all the things the LCD panels lack.

[RoadRunner6]

The Pioneer PRO-141FD Kuro Elite is simply the ultimate in flat panel HDTV. "For those who want the very best."

RR6

[pixelthis]

Hey bonehead, the $3500 price for the 5080 is the msrp you dolt. That tv was selling well below that 6 months ago. Do you realize that it won the shootout even though its a 720p set and it was being compared to some 1080p sets, including lcds? are you really that ignorant?

And like i said, if you arent a movie watcher, like myself, there is no reason for 1080p right now. OK, so DISH has 1080p pay-per-view. I'm assuming those are PPV MOVIES, which i do not watch, therefore there is no reason for me to have 1080p. Unfortunately the new Pioneer tvs are all 1080p, so thats what I will get. BUT, if the 5080 was still available, I would most certainly buy that tv.

I'd love to put the 5080 up against your hunk of sh*t Vizio, you would get destroyed in every way.

hOW WOULD you compare it since you dont "watch movies"?
And when it "won" the totally subjective testing the fact that it was 720p
wasnt even that important, 1080p was just getting cranked up.
THATS THE POINT.
Not surprizing that you dont watch "movies", probably don't have the attention span to watch a tv commercial:1:

[Duds]

The 5080 will smoke your Spazio in standard def tv, hi-def tv, regular dvds, games, and I'd be willing to bet even with blu-ray movies. Yes, you heard that correctly, a 768p tv will smoke your 1080p tv with a blu-ray movie.

and you finally got something right, i dont waste my time watching commercials.



hOW WOULD you compare it since you dont "watch movies"?
And when it "won" the totally subjective testing the fact that it was 720p
wasnt even that important, 1080p was just getting cranked up.
THATS THE POINT.
Not surprizing that you dont watch "movies", probably don't have the attention span to watch a tv commercial:1:

[RoadRunner6]

the totally subjective testing.....1080p was just getting cranked up

Wow, amazing! Look at the link below. Scroll down the page. Does "HT Labs Measures: Pioneer PDP-5080HD Plasma HDTV" look "totally subjective" to you?

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

"1080p was just getting cranked up" The test was published only seven months ago !!!

I hate to have to use the same photo again. I hope His Holiness doesn't mind.

RR6 :(

[pixelthis]

Wow, amazing! Look at the link below. Scroll down the page. Does "HT Labs Measures: Pioneer PDP-5080HD Plasma HDTV" look "totally subjective" to you?

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

"1080p was just getting cranked up" The test was published only seven months ago !!!

I hate to have to use the same photo again. I hope His Holiness doesn't mind.

RR6 :(


ONLY SEVEN months ago!!!
This "test" of yours has a set that has tech (lcos) that isnt even used anymore.
And 1080p wasnt nearly as prevalent then as it is now.
A 720p set for 3500 was within reason, now they will put you in a rubber room if you pay that for obsolete tech.
WHEN plasma couldnt compete with other form factors and offered
"edtv" instead of HDTV a lot fell for it, and suffered buyers
remorse as a result.
NOW it cant compete with LCD, cant offer 1080p at similar price levels,
so they are slathering on the marketing BS and saying that 720p is "just as good".
WELL, TRUST ME, in six months to a year you will be embrassed that you
have 720p in a 1080p world.:1:

[pixelthis]

The 5080 will smoke your Spazio in standard def tv, hi-def tv, regular dvds, games, and I'd be willing to bet even with blu-ray movies. Yes, you heard that correctly, a 768p tv will smoke your 1080p tv with a blu-ray movie.

and you finally got something right, i dont waste my time watching commercials.

Didn't waste time getting a high school diploma either I see.:1:

[pixelthis]

Man, green is not your color even though you have been wearing it for months. Remember Pixie, I have a real job, so I am far less concerned about price than you are. I get what I want, not sit around being jealous of what others have, or what they can spend. If you didn't spend so much time dumpster diving you could have a real job too.


Yeah, a job that allows you to buy whatever is talked about on this board, by my count you have a couple of dozen TV sets.
How about a pic?
I THOUGHT SO:1:

[pixelthis]

Wow, amazing! Look at the link below. Scroll down the page. Does "HT Labs Measures: Pioneer PDP-5080HD Plasma HDTV" look "totally subjective" to you?

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index7.html

"1080p was just getting cranked up" The test was published only seven months ago !!!

I hate to have to use the same photo again. I hope His Holiness doesn't mind.

RR6 :(

I used to keep hi-fi HT mags for awhile, but tech is changing so fast that a magazine will be obsolete in a few months, let alone seven.
Might as well be the middle ages.
Can you still buy the "winner" of this faceoff? Does it still cost 3500 bucks?
I thought so.
All of the reviews of my set have been generally favorable, and they are current, they have to be, my set is new.
And at 1080p it will be "current" a lot longer than your 720p.
I had the rare opportunity to compare both in the home, trust me,
1080p is it, and the same guys that are pouring on the marketing, trying to unload a bunch of 720p panels are gonna be gearing up
the same marketing mach trying to sell you on the idea of 1080p
as soon as the extended warrenty runs out.
What? No extended warrenty? ON A PLASMA?
opps!:1:

[pixelthis]

I really love the response my little thread has gotten, keep the
bricks and rotten tomatoes coming, I can answer all of your questions.
In the meantime, a refresher for the slow ones in the crowd.
Is plasma selling better? Should be with all of the hype.
LCD still outsells it, and for a lot of good reasons.
LCD AND PLASMA pics are barely indistingushable, except that LCD appears sharper maybe, which makes sense since plasma relies on
a volatile gas that has beem turned into a different state of matter with 30,000 volts so that it will become flourescent and emit photons, not to mention UV and infra-red and other types of radiation.
Plain old LCD is just an array of TFT transistors that are backlit.
Plasma has a "great picture"? What about the "anti-burn in" circuit that
every plasma has? Makes the pic jump around so that burn-in will be minimized, wont stop it completely, just reduce it a tad.
My brothers plasma had a picture that looked like a mexican jumping
bean the way it was moving around.
What is really terrifying are those who are buying plasma to play
games!!!
Talk about asking for it!
Burn in was so bad on early models that they asked you not to buy one if you intended to play a lot of games on one.
THE tech hasnt improved much since then.
Lifespans of 60,000 hours have been bandied about for plasma
lifespans.
How do they know this? Plasma hasnt been around that long.
And try to find one that is even FIVE years old.
Truth is, they made it up, mostly with super optimistic computer projections, they are banking on the type of people who buy this kinda set selling it before it gets to that point.
Basically tho PLASMA violates the cardinal first rule of engineering.
KISS(keep it simple stupid).
CREATING a different state of matter in your living room with a TV
that resembles a science project, shooting 30,000 volts through volatile gas is the height of stupidity, kinda like
taking a space shuttle to the mall a few miles down the street
The only reason plasma is around at all is because that is all they could come up with to meet the demand for a "flat" display.
First reviews were at best, lukewarm, but the funniest thing, the one thing they all talked about?
Plasma's lack of BLACK LEVEL
A lot of buyers talk about how plasma blows the competition away
with its "great black level".
Phooey, its just as bad as it has always been, its just that there are no display form factors that are as good(or better) especially with the death of CRT.
CRT had a great black level because of its nature, none of the newer formats can match it, but they have made improvements.
However why does LCD get bad press when Plasma has the same problem? Plasma fanboys who keep repeating this nonsense over and over, mostly.
AS MORE AND MORE people get tired of the inherent problems with
plasma, and abandon it for more stable displays its sales will drop.
Thsi recent surge in sales is just a bump on the way to the graveyard.
And the advent of 1080p WILL HASTEN THAT PROCESS.
1080P is better, and worth the trouble, and plasma will cost more for
a 1080p set, for the same reason that it cost more for an HDTV set over a EDTV a couple of years ago, mainly that its harder to make
more difficult to transport, etc.
Even if 1080p didnt make a difference this is a country where people buy cars with more horsepower even tho they dont need it, they will want 1080p, and plasma cant compete in performance, never has been able to.
Never will be able to
So they have to sell you on the idea that a lesser format
is "just as good" if not better, EDTV is just as good as HDTV, 720P
is just as good as 1080p
YAH, RIGHT.
And a 79 pinto is just as good as a 2009 corvette

Which is why, as a form factor, plasma is DEAD
NEXT!:1:

[Duds]

Today's prices at best buy.

Panasonic PZ80U - 50" 1080p plasma - $1599
Panasonic PZ800U - 50" 1080p plasma - $1999

Sony Bravia 46Z4100 46" 1080p LCD - $2199

The Panny 800U is a highly regarded plasma, and looky here, it cost less and is bigger than the Sony LCD!!!

And yes Dixie, you can find the Pioneer 5080 still, mostly in Canada though, and can be had for around $1500. Why are they so hard to find? Because they are a friggin awesome TV and people snagged them when Pioneer made the decision to make 1080p only models.




ONLY SEVEN months ago!!!
This "test" of yours has a set that has tech (lcos) that isnt even used anymore.
And 1080p wasnt nearly as prevalent then as it is now.
A 720p set for 3500 was within reason, now they will put you in a rubber room if you pay that for obsolete tech.
WHEN plasma couldnt compete with other form factors and offered
"edtv" instead of HDTV a lot fell for it, and suffered buyers
remorse as a result.
NOW it cant compete with LCD, cant offer 1080p at similar price levels,
so they are slathering on the marketing BS and saying that 720p is "just as good".
WELL, TRUST ME, in six months to a year you will be embrassed that you
have 720p in a 1080p world.:1:

[DetroitIrish]

What about the "anti-burn in" circuit that
every plasma has? Makes the pic jump around so that burn-in will be minimized, wont stop it completely, just reduce it a tad.
My brothers plasma had a picture that looked like a mexican jumping
bean the way it was moving around.

They've gotten better, cant tell on 42" LG, It's one of the first things i looked for ;)



CREATING a different state of matter in your living room with a TV
that resembles a science project, shooting 30,000 volts through volatile gas is the height of stupidity

Are microwave ovens any better? :D

[qoute]
Lifespans of 60,000 hours have been bandied about for plasma
lifespans.
How do they know this? Plasma hasnt been around that long.
And try to find one that is even FIVE years old.[/quote]
TVs are like cars, most people upgrade their stuff every 3-5 years anyway, new technology/better refresh rate/better resolution/more bells & whistles
LG "claims" a 30yr Guarantee
http://ca.lge.com/en/images/playability_8.jpg
Got the best buy xtnded service plan, so if craps out in 3, o well, new TV for free, and the way prices are going, I'll get somethng better than i had to begin with ;) If it lasts longer, It'll either go in the garage or my son's room ;)


Just my .02, Plasmas make for good secondary TV's, ie rec room/br, places you dont need huge 1080p TV's, just because they are less expensive to buy (who compares the cost of running TVs when shopping anyway), and has a comparable pic to LCD. Its hard to justify (most of the time) to your better half (if they know nothing about HT) why you want to spend a few hundred dollars more on a TV the same size w/ a similar picture (on display), or at least in most cases it is ;)


Not mening to stir up and s**t, just my own .02 ;)

IS plasma on it way out, eventually yes, but for now its still here.Plus, isnt almost everything outdated the day you take it out of the store? Who knows maybe OLED will drive both LCD &Plamsa to the grave, but it's too new ($2000 for an 11") to tell...

[Duds]

black levels are measureable you tard.

anti-burn in circuitry makes the picture jump around? um ok, maybe on a Vizio plasma...

hows the motion blur on your LCD Trixie??


I really love the response my little thread has gotten, keep the
bricks and rotten tomatoes coming, I can answer all of your questions.
In the meantime, a refresher for the slow ones in the crowd.
Is plasma selling better? Should be with all of the hype.
LCD still outsells it, and for a lot of good reasons.
LCD AND PLASMA pics are barely indistingushable, except that LCD appears sharper maybe, which makes sense since plasma relies on
a volatile gas that has beem turned into a different state of matter with 30,000 volts so that it will become flourescent and emit photons, not to mention UV and infra-red and other types of radiation.
Plain old LCD is just an array of TFT transistors that are backlit.
Plasma has a "great picture"? What about the "anti-burn in" circuit that
every plasma has? Makes the pic jump around so that burn-in will be minimized, wont stop it completely, just reduce it a tad.
My brothers plasma had a picture that looked like a mexican jumping
bean the way it was moving around.
What is really terrifying are those who are buying plasma to play
games!!!
Talk about asking for it!
Burn in was so bad on early models that they asked you not to buy one if you intended to play a lot of games on one.
THE tech hasnt improved much since then.
Lifespans of 60,000 hours have been bandied about for plasma
lifespans.
How do they know this? Plasma hasnt been around that long.
And try to find one that is even FIVE years old.
Truth is, they made it up, mostly with super optimistic computer projections, they are banking on the type of people who buy this kinda set selling it before it gets to that point.
Basically tho PLASMA violates the cardinal first rule of engineering.
KISS(keep it simple stupid).
CREATING a different state of matter in your living room with a TV
that resembles a science project, shooting 30,000 volts through volatile gas is the height of stupidity, kinda like
taking a space shuttle to the mall a few miles down the street
The only reason plasma is around at all is because that is all they could come up with to meet the demand for a "flat" display.
First reviews were at best, lukewarm, but the funniest thing, the one thing they all talked about?
Plasma's lack of BLACK LEVEL
A lot of buyers talk about how plasma blows the competition away
with its "great black level".
Phooey, its just as bad as it has always been, its just that there are no display form factors that are as good(or better) especially with the death of CRT.
CRT had a great black level because of its nature, none of the newer formats can match it, but they have made improvements.
However why does LCD get bad press when Plasma has the same problem? Plasma fanboys who keep repeating this nonsense over and over, mostly.
AS MORE AND MORE people get tired of the inherent problems with
plasma, and abandon it for more stable displays its sales will drop.
Thsi recent surge in sales is just a bump on the way to the graveyard.
And the advent of 1080p WILL HASTEN THAT PROCESS.
1080P is better, and worth the trouble, and plasma will cost more for
a 1080p set, for the same reason that it cost more for an HDTV set over a EDTV a couple of years ago, mainly that its harder to make
more difficult to transport, etc.
Even if 1080p didnt make a difference this is a country where people buy cars with more horsepower even tho they dont need it, they will want 1080p, and plasma cant compete in performance, never has been able to.
Never will be able to
So they have to sell you on the idea that a lesser format
is "just as good" if not better, EDTV is just as good as HDTV, 720P
is just as good as 1080p
YAH, RIGHT.
And a 79 pinto is just as good as a 2009 corvette

Which is why, as a form factor, plasma is DEAD
NEXT!:1:

[pixelthis]

black levels are measureable you tard.

anti-burn in circuitry makes the picture jump around? um ok, maybe on a Vizio plasma...

hows the motion blur on your LCD Trixie??


Nonexsistent.
Like your I.Q :1:

[pixelthis]

They've gotten better, cant tell on 42" LG, It's one of the first things i looked for ;)



Are microwave ovens any better? :D

[qoute]
Lifespans of 60,000 hours have been bandied about for plasma
lifespans.
How do they know this? Plasma hasnt been around that long.
And try to find one that is even FIVE years old.
TVs are like cars, most people upgrade their stuff every 3-5 years anyway, new technology/better refresh rate/better resolution/more bells & whistles
LG "claims" a 30yr Guarantee
http://ca.lge.com/en/images/playability_8.jpg
Got the best buy xtnded service plan, so if craps out in 3, o well, new TV for free, and the way prices are going, I'll get somethng better than i had to begin with ;) If it lasts longer, It'll either go in the garage or my son's room ;)


Just my .02, Plasmas make for good secondary TV's, ie rec room/br, places you dont need huge 1080p TV's, just because they are less expensive to buy (who compares the cost of running TVs when shopping anyway), and has a comparable pic to LCD. Its hard to justify (most of the time) to your better half (if they know nothing about HT) why you want to spend a few hundred dollars more on a TV the same size w/ a similar picture (on display), or at least in most cases it is ;)


Not mening to stir up and s**t, just my own .02 ;)

IS plasma on it way out, eventually yes, but for now its still here.Plus, isnt almost everything outdated the day you take it out of the store? Who knows maybe OLED will drive both LCD &Plamsa to the grave, but it's too new ($2000 for an 11") to tell...[/QUOTE]


Thats the point, to stir up a little s**t and get some info and knowledge
out there.
Sure plasma will be around awhile, might even surrive the into of OLED,
which will blow everything away.
Think you're sets "flat"? an OLED is something like ,1 inches or something, some youi can roll up in a tube, some you can make with an ink jet printer.
But until then? Whats your poison?
Plasma is a huge step back, used a tube and high voltage.
Just my two cents.:1:

[Feanor]

TVs are like cars, most people upgrade their stuff every 3-5 years anyway, new technology/better refresh rate/better resolution/more bells & whistles
LG "claims" a 30yr Guarantee

Got the best buy xtnded service plan, so if craps out in 3, o well, new TV for free, and the way prices are going, I'll get somethng better than i had to begin with ;) If it lasts longer, It'll either go in the garage or my son's room ;)

...:1:

I feel thoroughly ripped off if a component (or any appliance) doesn't last 10 years.

I rarely buy extended warranties. There have certainly been a few times I would have benefit, but in general I'm ahead for declining them.

[DetroitIrish]

I rarely buy extended warranties. There have certainly been a few times I would have benefit, but in general I'm ahead for declining them.

The Plamsa was the first warranty i have bought in i dont know how long, like pix said, find on ethat is 5 years old, and still looks good, that and the fact that my buddy got a 37" for Xmas 2 years ago, and its already a paperweight (grante dit was an el cheapo off brand)

Hell I didnt even buy an extended warranty on my car, but then again I dont think this would be covered under the policy
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/04detroitls/Shootout/S8000953.jpg
:thumbsup:

[Duds]

once again, no reponse in to the post comparing the price of a couple plasmas vs. an lcd


Nonexsistent.
Like your I.Q :1:

[pixelthis]

I feel thoroughly ripped off if a component (or any appliance) doesn't last 10 years.

I rarely buy extended warranties. There have certainly been a few times I would have benefit, but in general I'm ahead for declining them.

AND I keep hearing these stories.
We have a guy on this board, his set broke and they told him it would cost 2500(he got a new one)

[pixelthis]

The Plamsa was the first warranty i have bought in i dont know how long, like pix said, find on ethat is 5 years old, and still looks good, that and the fact that my buddy got a 37" for Xmas 2 years ago, and its already a paperweight (grante dit was an el cheapo off brand)

Hell I didnt even buy an extended warranty on my car, but then again I dont think this would be covered under the policy
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a17/04detroitls/Shootout/S8000953.jpg
:thumbsup:

Stories about how plasma has the lifespan of a fruiyfly.:1:

[pixelthis]

once again, no reponse in to the post comparing the price of a couple plasmas vs. an lcd

Plasmas are trying to pick up market share, and most plasmas are 720p, which is why they are "cheap".
Look for prices to be all over the board in the next coming months as
the collapse of the economy causes prices to gyrate wildly.
I WAS IN SEARS yesterday waiting on car repairs,place was a ghosttown.
[I]Nobody[I] was in the TV section looking at sets, NOBODY.
And I COULDNT MAKE ANY SENSE OUTTA THE PRICES.
Walked out into the mall, totally dead.
IF YOU have any cash in the coming months you should be able to get a really nice set CHEAP:1:

[DetroitIrish]

hoping i can catch a good deal on a 1080p around black friday (50"+ to replace the DLP) before i go spending the $ on car parts, usually seems like all that goes on sale that day is stuff like Vizio/low end stuff though

[Duds]

Wrong again Trixie, most plasmas are not 720p. the two panny's i used in my comparison are both 1080p sets.


Plasmas are trying to pick up market share, and most plasmas are 720p, which is why they are "cheap".
Look for prices to be all over the board in the next coming months as
the collapse of the economy causes prices to gyrate wildly.
I WAS IN SEARS yesterday waiting on car repairs,place was a ghosttown.
[I]Nobody[I] was in the TV section looking at sets, NOBODY.
And I COULDNT MAKE ANY SENSE OUTTA THE PRICES.
Walked out into the mall, totally dead.
IF YOU have any cash in the coming months you should be able to get a really nice set CHEAP:1:

[pixelthis]

Wrong again Trixie, most plasmas are not 720p. the two panny's i used in my comparison are both 1080p sets.
AND just because you have a ccouple of 1080p sets means that most are 1080p.
Thats beyond stupid, even for you.
Truth is 1080p is becoming more popular, but is still in the minority
for both LCD and plasma.
Be awhile before it catches up.:1:

[Duds]

thats funny, on bestbuy.com they have 85 720p flat panels, and 121 1080p flat panels...


AND just because you have a ccouple of 1080p sets means that most are 1080p.
Thats beyond stupid, even for you.
Truth is 1080p is becoming more popular, but is still in the minority
for both LCD and plasma.
Be awhile before it catches up.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

That's funny, on the Panasonic USA website they show 22 different models of plasmas and only 4 of them are 720p and 18 are 1080p! Someone can't seem to get his facts even close to being straight.

RR6

[Woochifer]

That's funny, on the Panasonic USA website they show 22 different models of plasmas and only 4 of them are 720p and 18 are 1080p! Someone can't seem to get his facts even close to being straight.

RR6

Actually, if you eliminate the duplicative model numbers, Panasonic's down to just two 720p plasma models. The rest of their plasma lineup is now entirely 1080p. They only introduced their first 1080p plasma model last year, so this transition did not take long and they're not alone among plasma manufacturers.

Pioneer stopped making 720p TVs earlier this year and their plasma lineup now consists of only 1080p models.

And Samsung's website lists a total of 16 plasma TV models, and only 4 of them are 720p.

[RoadRunner6]

Thanks Woochifer, I thought about the almost identical Costco models but thought that just might confuse someone in particular.

RR6

[pixelthis]

THANKS for proving my point(which I have already stated on another
thread).
MAINLY, that 720P IS DEAD.
Thought that if I could get you to prove my argument,
mainly that 720p is dead, and the only way that plasma can compeete is to offer sets in this "dead" format, that you then would have a hard time arguing about it.
THANX.:1:

[RoadRunner6]

Oh Pix, you are so clever! Now why don't you go out the window and take a long nap!

RR6

[Duds]

Obviously it isnt dead if best buy still has 85 of them to choose from, numbnuts.

saw an ad in a Wally World flyer yesterday for a 37" Vizio 720p lcd tv for like $550. Says Wally world shoppers gave this tv a 4.6 star rating out of 5 stars.....now there's a rating system I would trust.....LOL!!


THANKS for proving my point(which I have already stated on another
thread).
MAINLY, that 720P IS DEAD.
Thought that if I could get you to prove my argument,
mainly that 720p is dead, and the only way that plasma can compeete is to offer sets in this "dead" format, that you then would have a hard time arguing about it.
THANX.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I cannot believe all of you great guys are wasting your time with pixie. He knows everything, has predicted everything, and has heard everything first. You cannot argue with him. You get him in a "gotcha" moment, and like a slick snake he just changes the subject. First he says plasma is dead, then when that is proven untrue he says most plasma are 720p. When that is proven untrue, he switches to 720p is dead. You cannot argue with a changling, they just keep spinning and changing the arguement so it never seems like they are wrong about anything.

I say go fishing, or wax the car rather than dealing with him.

[RoadRunner6]

Yeah Sir Terrence, but otherwise how would I have got the opportunity to use that great photo of the sleeping cat (oh and the one of the Pope and Bush and the others also). Posting with the Pix sort of reminds me of trying to take a photo of a hummingbird or for you older guys, trying to carry on a conversation with Professor Erwin Corey (the King of doubletalk).

I think one reason some of us try to respond to his outrageous statements is that we fear visitors to this forum will think his statements are factual.

RR6

[pixelthis]

I cannot believe all of you great guys are wasting your time with pixie. He knows everything, has predicted everything, and has heard everything first. You cannot argue with him. You get him in a "gotcha" moment, and like a slick snake he just changes the subject. First he says plasma is dead, then when that is proven untrue he says most plasma are 720p. When that is proven untrue, he switches to 720p is dead. You cannot argue with a changling, they just keep spinning and changing the arguement so it never seems like they are wrong about anything.

I am never wrong about anything.
Well, almost never.:1:

[pixelthis]

Yeah Sir Terrance, but otherwise how would I have got the opportunity to use that great photo of the sleeping cat (oh and the one of the Pope and Bush and the others also). Posting with the Pix sort of reminds me of trying to take a photo of a hummingbird or for you older guys, trying to carry on a conversation with Professor Erwin Corey (the King of doubletalk).

I think one reason some of us try to respond to his outrageous statements is that we fear visitors to this forum will think his statements are factual.

RR6


You think I am the king of "doubletalk" wait until the maker of your shiny new plasma tries to explain why its a "dead" set because the
panels gone the day after the warrenty has expired:1:

[GMichael]

And so, it continues.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Yeah Sir Terrence, but otherwise how would I have got the opportunity to use that great photo of the sleeping cat (oh and the one of the Pope and Bush and the others also). Posting with the Pix sort of reminds me of trying to take a photo of a hummingbird or for you older guys, trying to carry on a conversation with Professor Erwin Corey (the King of doubletalk).

I think one reason some of us try to respond to his outrageous statements is that we fear visitors to this forum will think his statements are factual.

RR6

Oh no you dent call me a older guy. Grabs RR and starts slappin him on the back of his head....."Oh I show you older guy ya little chicken tender".

I completely understand your last statement. I guess that is why all of us even deal with him.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

And so, it continues.

Let's hope not g-dawg

[pixelthis]

Oh no you dent call me a older guy. Grabs RR and starts slappin him on the back of his head....."Oh I show you older guy ya little chicken tender".

I completely understand your last statement. I guess that is why all of us even deal with him.

I understand your outrage over being called an "older" guy.
Fossil would be a lot more accurate.:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I understand your outrage over being called an "older" guy.
Fossil would be a lot more accurate.:1:

I am seven years younger than you fool, so what do you call yourself? Father time? oil in the ground? Dino dude? Or better, bag of wrinkles? Or more appropriate, brain dead!

[pixelthis]

I am seven years younger than you fool, so what do you call yourself? Father time? oil in the ground? Dino dude? Or better, bag of wrinkles? Or more appropriate, brain dead!

You younger than me?
Maybe in dog years, and certainly I am younger in heart...OLD FART
Saw you and teh old lady out and about the other day...:1:

[pixelthis]

Of course you know I am joking talky, actually saw your wife the other day at her birthday party.
Old girl is lookin good for her age...:1: