What would you do with $1,000

[xracing1021]

Hi, I am in the market of getting a new Home Theatre system. I have an old panasonic HTIB 5.1; I want to get something new and perfer a receiver and speakers separately. Read the forums, many claimed HTIB is cheap and affordable, but it doesn't sound good. I want to spend no more than $1,000. what would be your pick? I do mostly gaming and movies. Please see my list of the components below.

Room size is 12ft x 12ft
Sony Bravia xbr4 --- 40" lcd
Sony Playstation3
(((Thinking of getting a Sony Bluray Disc player)))
Nintendo Wii
Phillips dvd players - dvp5960
Panansonic VCR
Monster Power Home Theater Reference HTS 1600


Receiver = ?
Speakers = ? <----prefer front tower speakers. (Question: what is the different between tower speakers and "regular small box" speakers?

Thank you for your help.

Ray

[blackraven]

Onkyo SR 605 receiver, infinity beta 40's (floor Standers) as fronts or beta 20's (book shelf) and the beta 10's as rear with the mirage S8 sub. Or the infinity primus series speakers. Primus 360s as the front, 142's or 152's as the rear with the Mirage S8 sub.
If you already have a sub then look at a B&W set up like the 686's (book shelf's) for front and rear.

Dont limit yourself to floor standers. You can get alot better sound for the money with better bookshelf speakers.

[Mr Peabody]

605 is good receiver and handles HDMI, I'd add Paradigm to your list of speakers to check out.

Why would you want a Blu-ray disc player when you PS3 will do the job?

[xracing1021]

Onkyo SR 605 receiver, infinity beta 40's (floor Standers) as fronts or beta 20's (book shelf) and the beta 10's as rear with the mirage S8 sub. Or the infinity primus series speakers. Primus 360s as the front, 142's or 152's as the rear with the Mirage S8 sub.
If you already have a sub then look at a B&W set up like the 686's (book shelf's) for front and rear.

Dont limit yourself to floor standers. You can get alot better sound for the money with better bookshelf speakers.


Thank you blackraven, I am going to the store to check out these speakers today. The sales reps here in the Best Buy and Circuit City are not helpful at all. They don't know anything about the HT. They just know how to ring you up at the register.


605 is good receiver and handles HDMI, I'd add Paradigm to your list of speakers to check out.

Why would you want a Blu-ray disc player when you PS3 will do the job?

Hi Mr. Peabody, thanks too, I will check out the 605. As for the ps3 is only for BluRay right? It can't playback HD? That's why I want a disc player be able to play both HD dvd and Blueray disc. I am still holding it back since HD is dead now.

Thanks all

[EddieZen]

Ray,

No need to bother with the big-box stores, you'll just pay more money for crappier gear. Here's how I'd spend $1K for a "mostly gaming and movies" system:

Panasonic sa-xr57 Class-D receiver, $275 shipped from jr.com
Hsu STF-1 subwoofer, $321 shipped from hsuresearch.com
2 pairs of Polk Monitor 30 speakers, $306 shipped from amazon.com
Polk Monitor CS1 center speaker, $114 shipped from amazon.com

For games/movies, the subwoofer is where you'll get the most enjoyment. The speakers simply need to deliver detail and power, which the Polk Monitors do and which the digital Panasonic will deliver in spades.

[L.J.]

I 3rd the 605 or getting an AVR with at least HDMI 1.1 or up and can handle MC PCM.

You'd be better off sticking with your PS3. If you really want to get into HDDVD, why not just pick up a player for $79-$99. Combo players have all kinds of problems and gonna cost alot.

Got any problems with building your system slowly. Maybe start off with a 605, nice front speaker and get the rest later.

[captjamo]

The Onkyo 605 would be good. EddieZen"s recommendation was well thought out considering your budget. I might suggest a Sub from Outlaw Audio but HSU sub is a sound recommendation in my opinion.

[Mr Peabody]

The Panasonics have gotten rave reviews. I didn't know any were still around. The 57 has HDMI but the site doesn't say to what extent they function. For $249.00 it would be a good option. I didn't notice MC analog in and it does not have the HD audio formats for Blu-ray. It still may not be a deal breaker though if it accepted PCM via HDMI.

[L.J.]

The Panasonics have gotten rave reviews. I didn't know any were still around. The 57 has HDMI but the site doesn't say to what extent they function. For $249.00 it would be a good option. I didn't notice MC analog in and it does not have the HD audio formats for Blu-ray. It still may not be a deal breaker though if it accepted PCM via HDMI.

This is why I suggested the 605 again. I was thinking that the Panny had some HDMI limitations. Not sure though. May be worth looking up I guess.

[EddieZen]

yeah, the Panasonic does have major HDMI limitations, which is why many people use a HDMI switcher instead with it.

Personally I have all my components' video output hooked directly to my TV, and let the receiver handle just the audio signals. My experience is that there is some picture degradation if you run the video through the receiver; there certainly isn't any improvement, even if the receiver has upconversion capabilities.

This might be because I'm not a big fan of video upconversion, which I think sounds great on paper but in reality can often give you an inferior picture.

[Mr Peabody]

I agree the best path is as straight as you can get and with the conversion built into every component, player, receiver, TV, it comes down to who is going to do it and if they all try, there certainly could be a degradation. However, with Blu-ray format there are HD audio and uncompressed audio we can take advantage of and we will need either multichannel analog inputs which will allow you to get the HD audio after being decoded by the player, same with HDMI PCM, or a receiver that decodes bitstream which this is still a bit up in the air whether it even works. Can't get the better sound via coax or optical. Also, most upconversions won't happen for video unless using HDMI but as you say this can still be done directly to the TV.

[EddieZen]

Valid point about HD Audio...however unless you are using a Blue Ray DVD specifically for critical music listening (are there many Blue Ray concert DVDs out?) I can't imagine that any improvement in sound quality for a movie's sound track is going to be at all noticeable vs. hearing that sound track through the receiver's coax or optical input.

I guess I tend to be skeptical of all the wild promises being made about every new video and audio format of the week. Home A/V technology has already reached such a level just with simple 480p DVD through even component video inputs and coax/optical Dolby Digital sound, I simply don't see much further improvement really being noticeable or significant.

Just got an Oppo 980 and after watching several of my favorite films running HDMI to my plasma at 720p, think I actually prefer the 480p component picture!

I suspect it's similar to computers...for 95% of users, a five year old 1.6GHz Pentium 4 running Windows XP does everything they need it to do, so why bother upgrading to a 3.0 GHz Core Duo running Vista which only costs more and requires a lot more system resources?

It begs the question: Are consumers being pushed down the format upgrade path mainly to line the pockets of various hardware manufacturers, and also to serve the copyright protection agenda of the film industry?

[Mr Peabody]

Unless your plasma is very new I doubt it is capable of 1080p. In addition, the 1080p upconverted is just line doubling, it is definitely not comparible to true 1080p picture quality of Blu-ray. The movie soundtrack audio from Blu-ray is uncompressed, the difference between standard DVD sound and HD movie audio sound is at least as wide as mp3 to CD.

That's interesting that you feel the picture is better at 480p, either the Oppo isn't as good as the raves or possibly the HDMI cable isn't that great. I understand that HDTV's upconvert video signals to their native resolution anyway, it could be the TV's scaler is better than what's in the Oppo. I notice that Blu-ray sometimes gives the illusion of the picture being a bit darker on mine, not sure why, but the detail is plainly better.

[L.J.]

The improvement in picture & sound is very noticeable IMO. Worth every penny!

Now if best SQ is the major importance here, then the suggestion should be for the OP to build his system slowly and put as much money into his speakers as possible. Many come here and claim they only want to spend x amount of money but usually are willing to build slowly once the benefits are explained to them.

[blackraven]

Just a couple of comments on the oppo 980. The 981 is supposed to have better video capability over the 980. The 980 has superior audio over the 981.

As far as the 480p picture looking better, that is entirely possible. I have read on several occasions that sometimes upconverted pictures don't look as good as lower resolution settings.

[blackraven]

Xracing. If your considering the infinity's check out www.crutchfield.com they tend to have very good prices on the infinity's.

[EddieZen]

Unless your plasma is very new I doubt it is capable of 1080p. In addition, the 1080p upconverted is just line doubling, it is definitely not comparible to true 1080p picture quality of Blu-ray. The movie soundtrack audio from Blu-ray is uncompressed, the difference between standard DVD sound and HD movie audio sound is at least as wide as mp3 to CD.

Yeah I have the Oppo on 720p because that's the native resolution of the TV, though Pioneer claims this model "can even support signals up to 1080p"---no idea what that means. Tried the 1080p setting on the Oppo as well as the 1080i setting, couldn't see that much of a difference.


That's interesting that you feel the picture is better at 480p, either the Oppo isn't as good as the raves or possibly the HDMI cable isn't that great. I understand that HDTV's upconvert video signals to their native resolution anyway, it could be the TV's scaler is better than what's in the Oppo. I notice that Blu-ray sometimes gives the illusion of the picture being a bit darker on mine, not sure why, but the detail is plainly better.

Well I definitely would say that on the HDMI at 720p setting the picture clearly is much darker with much blacker blacks, but the sharpness has a sort of grainy pixelish look to it, and the color intensity is, for lack of a better word, sort of Technicolor-like: lots more orange-ish tones to human skin for example, and I can't figure out if all these actors have blotchy rough skin that only HD brings out, or if that's some sort of artifact.

When I compare with the 480p component video input, the picture is much more pleasant and less eye-straining, the edges are much smoother and movement also seems smoother and more effortless.

I've tried having the HDMI set at 480p but it still doesn't resemble the component video for some reason.

Am hoping there are some calibrations or settings on the Oppo that I haven't figured out yet...

[Mr Peabody]

What are you using for a HDMI cable?

[EddieZen]

The stock cable that came with the Oppo.

Do you really think a different HDMI cable would really make any difference?

I guess there's the possibility that I am just not used to the HD picture.

[Mr Peabody]

I absolutely think a better cable may fix the problem. You'd tend to think that if Oppo was going to provide a cable it would be adequate but I have yet to see a stock cable that couldn't be improved on. Look at the cost of the Oppo and they are the only ones I've heard of that actually provide HDMI, it couldn't be that good. I'd suggest picking up one from a store that will allow a return. I found a Belkin at Target for around $40.00 that is 1.3 compliant and does a great job. I'm not sure what their return policy would be. Best Buy I believe still allows a 30 return with no questions but you will pay at least double for a Monster that may or may not be any better than the Belkin. I think it will fix the problem but if not then you can at least return it. HD should be better than 480p without hesitation. If you decide to do this please let me know what happens.

[IBSTORMIN]

Onkyo SR 605 receiver, infinity beta 40's (floor Standers) as fronts or beta 20's (book shelf) and the beta 10's as rear with the mirage S8 sub. Or the infinity primus series speakers. Primus 360s as the front, 142's or 152's as the rear with the Mirage S8 sub.
If you already have a sub then look at a B&W set up like the 686's (book shelf's) for front and rear.

Dont limit yourself to floor standers. You can get alot better sound for the money with better bookshelf speakers.

I agree with Blackraven. I have already stated that I like Onkyo and even better the Integra line, which is their upgrade. I have always used a direct connection for my video for a better picture. The side benefit is that it also lets you buy older equipment that does not have the most current video switching and saves $$$$. You could buy a couple year old Integra for the price of the Onkyo and get better sound. Of course, you can find used equip on E-bay or Audiogon, just be careful and buy from reputible people, not newbies.

Infinity is good sound for the money and to my ears, sounds much better than Polk. From what I've seen, Polk seems to follow Infinity's technology by a few years, always coming out with drivers that Infinity just stopped using. They then don't do as good a job with the crossovers or something, because they don't sound as smooth as the older Infinity with the same tech. I even found this with their car speakers in A-B comparo.

[Mr Peabody]

With brands like B&W, Paradigm or even Acoustic Energy offering speakers in the same range as Infinity and Polk, I wouldn't even consider Infinity, or Polk. To me Infinity doesn't sound as good as it did in the 80's to mid 90's. It seems the company took a turn for the worse when they moved to the East coast. Several years back my son bought his first receiver which was an Onkyo stereo, I connected some older RS-2's to it and that little $400.00 system had some synergy. I wish I could remember the series, I bought and returned a pair of $400.00 bookshelf Infinity's a couple years ago. I wanted them to go with a vintage Sansui integrated for my daughter. I tried to break them in on my Adcom system and those speaker never did sound right. They were very unbalanced, the tweeter was too loud and even though the bass sounded like it may have been good, you couldn't really hear it over the tweeters.

[IBSTORMIN]

With brands like B&W, Paradigm or even Acoustic Energy offering speakers in the same range as Infinity and Polk, I wouldn't even consider Infinity, or Polk. To me Infinity doesn't sound as good as it did in the 80's to mid 90's. It seems the company took a turn for the worse when they moved to the East coast. Several years back my son bought his first receiver which was an Onkyo stereo, I connected some older RS-2's to it and that little $400.00 system had some synergy. I wish I could remember the series, I bought and returned a pair of $400.00 bookshelf Infinity's a couple years ago. I wanted them to go with a vintage Sansui integrated for my daughter. I tried to break them in on my Adcom system and those speaker never did sound right. They were very unbalanced, the tweeter was too loud and even though the bass sounded like it may have been good, you couldn't really hear it over the tweeters.

I agree with Mr. P, the newer Infinity speakers w/CMMD sound too harsh in a two way configuration, but I haven't really listened to the newer MMD tweeters. Their RS or their higher end Overture series from the 90's with the silk dome tweeters sound much better. That's the tweeter Polk is using now but they don't sound as clear as the older Infinity did.
First, I'll say I respect Mr. P's opinions. Because I read so many positives about B&W I have been wondering how the B&W would compare with my 90's Infinity's and I just read a post about a B&W (602??) speaker being too harsh so the listener couldn't listen more than 5 minutes. A friend of mine has Paradigm and they sound better than Polk but I have never had the chance to do an A-B comparo with Infinity, and I am not familiar with Acoustic Enegry. IMHO You can buy the used Infinity pretty reasonable and spend more money on your receiver.