Destroyed by Fire

[TwinDad]

Greetings,

My old A/V setup was lost in a fire a few days ago.

I am interested in building a system around an ONKYO TX-SR875 Receiver, a 52" TV (Sony XBR5 or Samsung), a hybrid player with HD audio/Blu-ray/HD DVD, a surround sound speaker system (DALI IKON 6 5.1 or similar), a Marantz DV7001 SACD/CD/DVD player or equal, a piece of Light Cherry furniture to place TV on and store components inside - with doors to fight off dust build up. Finally, I would like a DV Recorder with storage built in (250GB). I need advice on my choices. Are they a good fit? Please make recommendations especially on the Hybrid player or if I should go with just a dedicated Blu-Ray player instead. I know nothing about interconnects, video cables, HDMI 1.3 cables etc. I would prefer not to use Monster Cable this time around. Should I configure the new system with your help and buy via internet or go through local dealers and let them do the install on the system we design here. There are 4 people in my family - 2 adults and twin boys. Should I buy professional Home Theatre seating in a semi circle from Stressless Seating? The prior sofa/loveseat reeks of smoke damage.

Please adopt my cause and help steer me in the right direction. I am a musician so the audio has to be stellar on the new system.

Currently we are using a borrowed TV from my in laws so my kids don't go crazy and drive us crazy as well. A fire is a horrible thing to go through.

Thanks,

Eddie

[elapsed]

Hi TwinDad, sorry to hear about the fire. A few thoughts:

1. No need to purchase a hybrid player, Blu-Ray won the war a few weeks back.

2. No need to purchase the Marantz Universal Player, the Blu-Ray player will handle your DVD collection. If you're looking for a dedicated CD Player, consider a Rega Apollo or another alternative for a similar budget (I'm not putting down the Marantz in any way, this is an excellent player)

3. Do you have an existing SACD collection? If so I can offer alternative suggestions to the Rega

4. For a stand, consider brands such as Sanus and BDI

5. For HDMI cables purchase from Monoprice

6. For seeting consider Berkline chairs

What is your full budget for this project?

[TwinDad]

Elapsed,

I lost roughly 90% of my dvd's and CD's in the fire. All the equipment is toast. This really is a fresh start and you fellow forumites have been given a clean slate to put together a state of the art A/V system for my family. I prefer Plasma or LCD - no projector/screen. The names I listed in my initial post were picked at random by spending the day at Barnes & Noble / Borders Books and Music and searching through A/V magazines. $15K for my budget. I have to stress how important SOUND is to me as a musician. Please keep the audio portion in your thoughts and high on the list. From what I read the Marantz and Dali Ikon combination are incredible pieces of kit. However, I have a teachable spirit and will listen to all suggestions and recommendations. In NY we have Harvey Electronics, Lyric Hi-Fi, and several other smaller Audio Specialty stores. I hurt my back carrying the extinguished TV outside the house - so I want an installer to do all the work.

[TwinDad]

Does the Blu-ray players play CD-R discs? I burn a lot of my own music. No pun intended.

[blackraven]

Save your money and go with the Sony XBR4, there is virtually no significant difference in the picture from the XBR5. Unless you have money to burn, save the extra $1k and spend it on other equipment. Note that the Samsung LCD TV now has a higher glare screen as compared to the Sony. So if the TV will be facing any windows or lights, you may want to go with the Sony. Both the Samsung and Sony have comparable pictures.

Buy your audio equipment online if you can. You will save alot of money. As far as the TV is concerned, I would buy it locally in case there are problems.

Buy your cables from www.bluejeancable.com They make very good cables at reasonable prices. I just bought their F type HDMI cables and they appear to be of high quality.

That Onkyo receiver is a good start. Go with a BluRay player instead of a hybrid as mentioned before. If you have some HD DVD's already then pick up a toshiba HD player for as low as $99 before they totally disappear since HD DVD has lost the war to BluRay . The BluRay player will be able to up-convert all your standard DVD's to 1080p.

Go to the Sony web site to see if it will play CDR's.

If you need a good CDP then look at the Marantz SA8001 SACDP, Rega Apollo, Cambridge audio 740c, or 640c, Music Hall 25.2. And if you want a good low price universal player, consider the OPPO 980HD.

[TwinDad]

Awesome Post blackraven!! Thank you - especially for the Sony TV tip. There are 2 windows on one wall and a giant bay window on the other wall. Lots of sunlight all day long. What Blu-ray player is the best in terms of picture quality and HD AUDIO?

[blackraven]

I wish I could help you with the BR players. My Sony 52" XBR4 came with a free Sony BDP 300 bluray player as a package for $2,990. I like the player so far. I would talk to the salesmen at your local store and compare the different players. I have not seen any difference in video capability among the players though.

[TwinDad]

blackraven - How are the electrostat Maggies for Music? Are they everything I've read about over the years? They are supposed to have an incredible soundstage and make you feel like you are at a concert or recital from my understanding. Just curious.

[blackraven]

The magnepans are fantastick for music. If the recording is a good recording you do feel like they are playing live in front of your. The sound stage is huge. For the money, nothing compares to them. They like well recorded music and poorly recorded music will sound like crap because they dont color the music like box speakers tend to do. They tend to be better for jazz, acoustic, vocal, classical and blues than hard rock because hard rock is all to often recorded poorly.

I have mine integrated with my HT and they work well.

[TwinDad]

I'm thinking about the 50" Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma for my TV. Great reviews.

[blackraven]

Very nice TV tyhe Pioneer, you cant go wrong with it otr the Panasonics. Check out the new consumer reports on TV ratings. I think that they are spot on. I love my Sony and I'm happy I went LCD. The picture is fantastick and the blacks are black as can be. I dont think black level is much of an issue any more. Fast motion is good too because of the 120Hz refresh rate. The standard audio from the Sony is excellent as well.

[TwinDad]

A dealer told me to save my money and buy the non-Elite version of the Pioneer 50" Kuro Plasma TV. He said with proper calibration I won't notice a difference and I can use the money on speakers and source equipment.

I saw a 40" SONY XBR4 at best buy that was very nice. They did not have a 46" or 52" XBR4 on display. I liked the screen because it did not have the glare of the plasmas.

Does the XBR4 come with that 120Hz refresh rate feature for faster motion visuals?

Thanks for helping me out so much blackraven.

[bobsticks]

Hey TwinDad,

First and foremost, welcome to the forum. Hopefully nobody was in the house at the time of the fire. I lived through such a thing years back--truly a harrowing experience. Glad you're alright.

A few thoughts. You could go out, sight unseen, sound unheard, and buy whatever gear was listed here--and I think you're on the right track with the Onkyo and the marantz--but speakers are something you need to listen to for yourself. They're such an individual thing. Does Dali make superior kit? Some say yes, to others not so much. You're the one that has to live with the things.

I suggest you listen to the Dalis, and Paradigm, and KEF, and B&W, and Vienna Accoustic, and Martin Logan, etc. With each listen identify characteristics of the speakers that you like/dislike and think longterm...unless you want to join the sopeaker-of-the-month club.

Make sure to take some discs with which you are familiar and be ready to give the salesperson the dimensions of your room. If he/she's any good it'll be one of the first questions asked.

Good luck, have fun shopping and keep us informed as to your progress...

Cheers

[TwinDad]

Thanks bobsticks - I am going to visit several small dealers this week and next week to audition everything. WHATHIFI rates the Dali Ikon 6 5.1 system as being superlative for movies AND music. Music is extremely important to me.

[bobsticks]

Are you in the U.K.? If so, I would imagine the Dalis would be significantly more affordable than on this side of the pond...which leaves more in the budget for toys...hehehe

[TwinDad]

USA - DALI IKON 6 5.1 are supposed to be killer!

[blackraven]

The XBR4 has the 120Hz refresh rate. You wont be sorry with the Sony. Once you take it home and see the picture on a good HD signal you will be awestruck! There is virtually no glare and it has a very bright picture. I can open my shades to the 4 huge south facing windows and still watch the TV with out any problems. The windows face the TV! The viewing angle is excellent as well.

Very good advice from Bobsticks concerning speakers. Don't be in a hurry, take your time and listen to as many as you can, preferably on the same amp and CD player if possible. Bring your own music, something that is a good recording like jazz as well as the type of music you like to listen too.

If your looking for a 5.1 system, put together your own instead of a package deal. you will get alot better sound. If you need suggestions, just ask and telll us your budget for speakers and sub woofer.

[dax]

My Sony 52" XBR4 came with a free Sony BDP 300 bluray player as a package for $2,990.

That's a great package price. Can you tell us where you purchased them? Thanks in advance!

[dax]

My Sony 52" XBR4 came with a free Sony BDP 300 bluray player as a package for $2,990.

That's a great package price. Can you tell us where you purchased them? Thanks in advance!

[TwinDad]

Check this out:

Hi everyone,

I spoke with a local dealer several times over the last few days via phone and told him my budget was no more than $17K for everything.

When I got to his store today - the high end listening room was piled high with boxes. The system he tried to sell me with install cost in the mid $30K range. I was really disappointed. He had Thiel CS3.7 speakers hooked up to some exotic stuff - ANTHEM processor, etc. He did not listen to a thing I said prior on the phone.

I'm bummed out.

I'd like to issue a challenge. You know my budget. Design a great sounding A/V system for me and I will pick the winner and send him a great knife as a gift for the effort. I collect knives as a hobby.

PM me with trustworthy internet or phone order dealers who are known for being reputable and their discounting of price.

Does this sound like a fair challenge? I will post pics of the system once installed.

Great Big Thanks!!!

Eddie

[bobsticks]

Okay, TD, I'll play...a few questions first though:

1) What instrument do you play?
2) How big is your room?
3) What styles of music do you listen to?
4) Describe the furnishings of the room in question?

[TwinDad]

bobsticks,

I play guitar and bass for over 30 years. I am learning piano as are my twin sons.

Room 20'L x 14'W with 8' ceilings. Open floor plan. Large Archways delineate various rooms. Only 2 doors: Main entry and Bathroom.

70% Solo Piano, 15% Orchestral Music, 15% Jazz, Rock,etc. are my listening habits.

Large Bookcase, Sofa. Loveseat, Chair, 2 End Tables, 1 Piano, - Sofa and Loveseat are going to be replaced with HT seating.

90% Carpeted Throughout.

[blackraven]

You have plenty of options for $17,000.

Go for the Magnepans with that kind of taste in music. 3.6's as the mains, CC3 for center and MC1's as rear channel. Sony 52"XBR4 LCD TV. And a REL Britannia Sub which matches very well with the Magnepans.

Or a Theil system of CS 2.4's or 3.6's for front channels and the SCS4 rears, MCS1 for the center. For a sub either of these REL subs Britannia B3 as my first choice, its an awesome sub, or the R-305. If you dont want to spend 2K on a sub then the Velodyne SPL-1000R

Both these systems would be great for piano and orchestral music.

I would seriously consider the Cambridge Audio 840c as a CDP. There are better for more money, but the 840c is alot of bang for the buck if your looking to save a little money.

As far as amps, I'll leave that to other people.

[TwinDad]

I'm calling around looking for a Maggie dealer and have not (as of yet) found one.
Thanks blackraven - I want to audition those speakers.

[blackraven]

Go to the magnepan web site and see if you can find any dealers in your area. You can call them as well. They have been very helpful over the phone in the past. I live about 20 min from their factory. www.magnepan.com

The 3.6's will cost about $5K, the center and rear speakers will cost about $1500. If the 3.6's cost too much then look at the QR1.6's for $1800. You will need an amp that is rated at 4ohms with at least 200wpc for all 5 channels.

By the way, where do you live?

[blackraven]

For a good high powered 5ch amp and processor with 300wpc at 4 ohms you should consider the outlaw audio 7500 5ch amp rated at 300wpcx5 at 4ohms and the 990 preamp-processor for about $2400 at www.outlawaudio.com. A lot of people use these amps to drive magnepans. These are very good amps for the money. Are there better, sure. But the Magnepans need lots of 4ohm power to sound the best, especially if your going to play them loud.

I envy your if you decide to buy the 3.6's. They sound magnificent! The 1.6's sound great as well. If you do go with the Maggies, seriously consider the REL subs. The higher end REL subs match very well and are some of the best sub's in the world. You will only need them for HT and not 2ch music as the QR 1.6's and 3.6 maggies have plenty of bass. If you decide to go with a different brand sub, look for a non ported sub. The magnepans are very fast speakers and they need a "fast sub". Non ported subs like the REL's and the SPL velodynes fit the bill. So do the Martin Logan subs.

[TwinDad]

Spoke with three dealers on phone today and have appointments set up for Saturday.

My wife is insisting that we visit the BOSE store in the local mall. Her co-worker has a 1-2-3 system and swears that it is outstanding. I doubt it very much. However, she is very supportive about the whole HT system set-up and i have to give in and go on the wasted time travel excursion.

Nicest dealer and most informative on phone is a LINN / ARCAM / REL dealer who said he can put together a great system within my budget.

I LOVE THE PIONEER KURO PLASMA TV!!! A grand Slam if there ever was one. I have seen both the 50" and 60" Elite and non-Elite versions. They are beautiful and my kids agree. Very Happy!

Things are looking up.

[blackraven]

Linn, Arcam and REL make great products. Just make sure that if you go with the magnepans that the Linn dealer knows about their requirements for lots of clean high current power at 4ohms and that you will need that from all 5 channels! If you go with the 3.6's you will need minimum 200wpc and preferably 300wpc to be satisfied with the sound.

Good luck and happy hunting!

[bobsticks]

Blackraven has made some great suggestions. For your taste in music the Magnepans are absolutely fantastic...in my opinion, but you need to hear them. I love the speaker package that that he's suggested.

Here's my list:

1) Pioneer plasma
2) Maggie speaker package
3) Onkyo 875 AV receiver
4) Arcam Diva P1000 7 Channel amp (Bi-amped on front speakers)
5) PS3 run to Onkyo via HDMI (for Blu-Ray and Standard DVD)
6) Arcam DV137 Universal Player (for CD,SACD,DVD-Audio)
7) REL sub

That set-up will give you both great movies and some serious two-channel reproduction.

[TwinDad]

Is it possible to put together an all Maggie surround system? I'd be willing to sell a few guitars to raise the extra cash.

What about Martin Logan or Quad speakers? I just read a review on new ML and it was a good one. Are electrostats better for piano and classical music in general? My floor is 100% carpeted in the family room - do I have to worry about dust building up more quickly on electrostats? What about static electricity because of Maggies, etc and carpeting?

[bobsticks]

Is it possible to put together an all Maggie surround system? I'd be willing to sell a few guitars to raise the extra cash.

What about Martin Logan or Quad speakers? I just read a review on new ML and it was a good one. Are electrostats better for piano and classical music in general? My floor is 100% carpeted in the family room - do I have to worry about dust building up more quickly on electrostats? What about static electricity because of Maggies, etc and carpeting?

I could be wrong, but Martin Logan is the only one of the three manufacturers in question that makes proper center channels. It is possible that on could use one of the smaller Maggies as a center.

Both stats (ML) and planars (Maggies) will give you a "wide open" and "airy" sound with extremely holographic imaging--fantastic for piano, small ensemble and, depending on which speaker, symphonic classical. The downside is that they do not have the dynamic drive that a coned speaker will have, but that is generally more of a concern for fans of rock music or techno or whatever non-organic music descriptor you may choose to insert.

Humidity will be the enemy of any speaker but my electrostat surround set-up (ML) doesn't require any particularly invasive or silly rituals as far as care and maintenance goes.

As far as budget goes, this is gonna get expensive. There are a couple of options, however, one of which would be to buy used. Stat panels, even on very old speaks, can be replaced for only a few hundred dollars so that's a possibility. Were it I, I would be looking for a used amp. You can probably knock off a thousand dollars by going used on the MC amp, and solid state amps are a great value and very safe to purchase used. There's not a lot of things that can wrong. You could probably pick up a Marantz 9600 from "Accessoriesforless" on ebay and save five hundred on the universal.

[blackraven]

TD, The magnepan package I suggested is for HT use. Check their web site.

Magnepan 3.6's or 1.6's for the front channels. The magnepan CC3 for the center and the
MC1's for the rear. I've heard a set up with the 1.6's as the fronts and is sounded great.

Martin logans would be a good choice as well. I prefer the magnepans. The store I bought mine at sells ML and Magnepan so I got to compare them side by side. The Maggies have a warmer richer sound. The ML's sounded thin compared to the maggies.

You dont have to worry about dust or static with the magnepans. You just dont want to have cats with claws climbing the panels. The only problem with the Maggies are the size. The 3.6's are almost the size of a door. You need an understanding wife. The center channel is very large as well although they do make a smaller center channel only available through mail oorder from magneapan.

Thiels would be my second choice in speakers. They sound great with piano and classical music.

[TwinDad]

Thanks for the quick education. No cats - I'm allergic. Still trying to find a Maggie dealer in my area - no luck. I am going to contact them directly and may have to plan on a day trip for an audition. That's fine with us.

My wife read all the negative reviews about BOSE 123 and Lifestyle system and decided against purchasing BOSE.

Saturday my wife and twin sons went to a dealer to show her for the 1st time the Pioneer 50" KURO Plasma HDTV and to audition speakers. She loves the TV - so case closed that is our purchase.

The speakers that amazed us were the Audio Physic Tempo IV (STEREOPHILE CLASS B FULL RANGE RECOMMENDED COMPONENT) in a cherry finish. Just wonderful. Great low end response on Organ and Synth Bass, smooth vocals across the midrange. A warm inviting speaker that could be listened to for extended periods of time with no fatigue. They handled everything I threw at it. Vladimir Horowitz, Claudio Arrau, Earl Wild, Oscar Peterson, Monk all sounded perfect. Not as overly bright as the Theil's I had auditioned at another dealer that made me want to lower the volume or stop listening altogether. Great soundstaging on Concertos and Orchestral Pieces. No ice pick in the forehead sensation when listening to Danny Gatton on Harlem Nocturne with his aggressive Fender Telecaster. Really a great speaker for the money. I don't know if I'm allowed to post prices so PM me and we'll talk.

Two other speakers that cost considerably less were the REVEL F12 and F32. I could hear strange artifacts during a challenging collection of Bassoon pieces that bothered me. The dealer heard it too and said it was a dissonance in the frequency spectrum. Whatever jargon that is acoustically correct - the Bassoon did not really sound very much like a Bassoon. Back to the Audio Physic Tempo with the Bassoon Cd and - it is sublime. From the deepest register of the Contra-Bassoon to the highest notes on the Bassoon it was breathtaking.
Several other people wandered into this audition room to listen to the music. It sounded that good.

The source equipment for the demo was Classe CDP 102 and CAP 2100.

The system this dealer is thinking about putting together is BDI Lowboy furniture in cherry,
Marantz 6001 ( A WHAT HIFI WINNER), Rotel RSX1067, Sony BluRau Player 300 with version 3.7 software to fix prior slow loading problems, etc. We also talked about using the KEF Wireless surround setup for the rear surround speakers so no wires have to be run under carpet or through baseboard or through attic. It will cut down installation cost and I apply saving elsewhere. Oh, the sub is the B&W PV1 (another WHATHIFI WINNER). Wiring would be by Nordost. I don't know much about the Rotel product and am going to research it.

Anyway that was Saturday's excursion into a super laid back dealership. This is what I pictured going into a High End Dealer would be and feel like.

My kids sat down and listened to everything , behaved and said what sounded good and didn't. Martial Arts lessons pay off for discipline. They know when they are not allowed to act like children and basically stay very focused until I tell them everything's cool and they can act like themselves again - kids.

Thanks,

Eddie

[blackraven]

As far as subs go, the B&W is a great sub, but you should really listen to the REL subs that I mentioned earlier. REL specializes in making subs and they are world renown. The Britanica series are unbelievable.

[TwinDad]

I did not ask if they carried REL subs. I'll find out tomorrow. I have 2 more dealers lined up to visit within the next 10 days.

[bobsticks]

Hey TD,

Random thoughts:

--Your wife is one smart cookie for doing her research.
--Aren't the Marantz 6001 and the Rotel 1067 both receivers?
--Congrats on hearing the Audio Physic, a very fine speaker indeed. Kinda nice to know what's out there eh?
-I wasn't able to discern if that was the speaker in the proposed set-up. If so, what was proposed as a center channel?
--You may be a candidate to experiment with SACD (Super Audio CDs)
-- Watch out for Classe CDPs. While Classe makes some fantastic amps and processors my dealer claims to have had reliability issues with the players.
--You have great taste in music

Peace

[blackraven]

TD, seriously consider the Marantz SA 8001 SACDP. There are many SACD titltes for the type of music you like to listen too. The Marantz is a very good CDP, and SACD sound is awesome. Check out the reviews at www.stereophile.com I got to auditon it at home but went with the Cambridge Audio 740c and then the 840c which you should also consider for its detail and accuracy. The Rega Apollo is another one you should consider.

I would also strongly consider going with a separate amp and preamp over those receivers. You will get much better sound and flexibility.

[f0rge]

DON'T BUY BLURAY YET!!!!

wait for spec 2, it will make all the spec 1 and 1.1 players obsolete, sony should have some players out in the summer.

sorry if someone said this already, i only skimmed.

[TwinDad]

Thanks fOrge,

What is the difference?

Eddie

[Groundbeef]

Thanks fOrge,

What is the difference?

Eddie

2.0 has different features not available on earlier releases. I think that the base BR "Movie" will play in older players (1.0, 1.1). However some of the newest interactive features, online access, and games related to the "movie" would be UN-available to the users of the older releases (1.0, 1.1).

Perhaps Sir T will stop by and school us all on this, but I think I'm pretty close.

I also think this is a hardware update, and cannot be done to the older players via a software d/l or "update disc".

Congrats on the 50" plasma. I have a Pioneer Plasma, and it's the cat's meow. Great colors, blacks, the whole nine yards. Just wish I had the extra $2K for the 60".

[TwinDad]

Okay - just too many expressions of true gratitude to go around for all you guys. You are great!

Blackraven - my wife freaked out when she saw the size of the Maggies. Plus the salesman told her it is difficult to place speakers and center channel. So, Magies are sadly a no go.

Here we go (so far):

Re: DESTROYED BY HOUSE FIRE!!!

Hello,

Here is what I have planned so far:

Pioneer Elite KURO PRO-110FD 50" Plasma TV

SVS PB Ultra 13 Subwoofer - maybe 2

Integra DTC 9.8 Pre/Pro

Panasonic DMP-BD300 Blu-Ray Player or wait for spec 2 to come out in summer by Sony

Cables by BlueJeanCables

APC or Belkin Power Conditioners

Speakers? Back to the drawing board.
Amps? Need something that will do surround sound as well as 2 channel audio.
Furniture for TV and Components? Any links, or suggestions?
Universal Remote? What specific make and model.

Forget HT seating. We hired a company to clean carpets and furniture of smoke smell from fire. Everything worked out amazingly well. No smell.

I want the option of being able to switch to just 2 channel stereo with sub for enjoying music only.

Please help fill in the missing pieces of my system.

Finally, I would like a SACD/CD/CDR player for my discs that I started buying again. MUSIC IS KEY!!!

Thanks,

Eddie

[blackraven]

For amp and pre look at NAD T973 7ch amp and T175 preamp or their top of the line Master seires M25 7ch amp and M15 preamp. If your looking to save some money look at www.outlawaudio.com.

If your looking for just a receiver check out the Cambridge Audio 640R at www.spearitsound.com

For a CD/SACD player go with the Marantz SA8001 SACDP. It cant be beat for the money.

For speakers, you should consider Paradigm and B&W.

There are better subs than the SVS.

[TwinDad]

blackraven,

So many people have PM and emailed me extolling the virtues of SVS subs not to mention the value.

I liked the B&W PV1 when I demoed it.

Other have been very vocal about he REL brands high standing.

Again, I want a musical sounding sub. However, it will be used to handle the loud sound effects from movies so i guess this is where trying to find a happy medium comes into play.

Thanks,

Eddie

[blackraven]

Check out the REL subs at www.sumikoaudio.net The britannica line is excellent.

Here's a review of the smaller B3 sub.
www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/reviews/britanniab3/RELB3_TAS_806.pdf

I've heard this and the larger B2. They will blow you away. I've heard several high end subs and these are the best that I have ever heard. They are well worth the money if your going to spend several thousand dollars on audiphile speakers and amp/pre. Especailly if your main concern is music. I wouldnt waste my money on these if you only used them for home theater because there are cheaper subs that will the job for HT use.

[blackraven]

Here's another review comparing the REL Stentor sub with a Cerwin Vega and SVS SB12-plus. The REL took first place with the CV second and the SVS third.

www.sumikoaudio.net/rel/reviews/Stentor/RELSTENTOR_III_HCC_7-07.pdf

[TwinDad]

Once again - Thank you blackraven. I will print out the links and read them tonight while my wife watches our loaner TV.

[TwinDad]

Hello,

I need to set the record straight on one minor item. I had to go see a doctor a few days ago because I actually hurt myself more than I realized in the fire. I'm using special burn ointment with high steroid count for my arms. One arm looks kind of funky. I told the doc that i did not really feel any pain and evidently - that's bad when burns are concerned because it means it affected the nerves.

My back is shot. I am having a difficult time driving and sitting. This makes auditioning speakers a burden rather than an adventure.

I will heal. So, please NO well wishes or pity or stuff like that. Life happens.

Now, what I really need is to put together this system and rely on your ears for the speakers. I will fill in any blanks you may have. by now you know I want a setup that is relaxing for extended listening sessions. My preference is for neutral/forgiving spealers rather than Ultra Revealing.

In Good Spirits,

Eddie

[bobsticks]

My back is shot. I am having a difficult time driving and sitting. This makes auditioning speakers a burden rather than an adventure.

My preference is for neutral/forgiving spealers rather than Ultra Revealing.

In Good Spirits,



Hey Eddie,

Under the circumstances it seems as if we should think a bit outside our usual envelope. I may be inviting a flame war, but have you checked out a Magnolia Home Theater in one of the upscale Best Buys? I would imagine that their combination of product and service might make life easier.

The last time I was in one they had a pretty good mix of product and if you purchased the service plan I wouldn't imagine that they'd have a problem with slipping in a few extra components as well. Here goes:

--Pioneer Plasma (again, nice choice)
--Vienna Acoustics surround system (I've modified my recommendation based on your own comments)
--REL sub
--Pioneer Elite receiver

All these can be purchased from Magnolia. I think that the Vienna Accoustics would be a mellower alternative to the ultra-revealing Martin Logans and would still fill a 20 x 14 room.

One could still order better options from the internet such as the recommended NAD amp. For a universal you would do well with either of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARANTZ-DV9500-Reference-DVD-Player-SACD-DVD-A-w-HDMI_W0QQitemZ370028931469QQihZ024QQcategoryZ15077 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
or

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-DVD-3910-BSTOCK-AUTHORIZED-DEALER-FULL-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ160215804197QQihZ006QQcategoryZ1 5077QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Both are respected internet dealers.

Glad to read that your remaining upbeat in the face of adversity.

Peace,
Sticks

[blackraven]

Paradigm Studio 60's or 100's or the Paradigm Signature S6's for the front channels and then the matching rear book shelf and center channels. This would be a killer system.

[TwinDad]

Yes, Paradigm gets good to great reviews in the press from what I recall. Going to their website now.

[blackraven]

Hey TD, I agree with bobsticks. Check out the Magnolia dept of BB. Vienna acoustics and Martin Logan speakers are very good. You can even order REL subs through them.
The Martin Logan Servo controlled subs are excellent as well. They have very tight crisp bass. You cant go wrong with either of those brand of speakers. Dont be fooled by the fact they are sold at BB. They are audiophile speakers.

[TwinDad]

bobsticks,

I missed the whole Magnolia post. Must have been overtired.

GREAT IDEA!!! In name alone "Vienna" Acoustics just sounds like it was made to play classical music. My attempt at humor.

There are 3 Best Buys in my area. The one i stopped in to look at Pioneer Elite KURO 50" 1080p PRO-110FD Plasma TV was still in the construction phase and did not have any components hooked up. All the TV's were on though. Plus, they were seriously understaffed. Nobody even approached my family to see if they could help us. However,
I am going to attempt to call the remaining 2 stores and see if they are set up as Magnolia sites and fully operational. Circuit City was the worst. Salespeople were just talking to themselves and DID NOT CARE about customer service.

I read an article that says PLASMA is dead. pioneer has joined Fujitsu and is pulling out of the Plasma market. Should I buy now or wait and see how deep the discounts get? Any recommendations on Elite internet dealers that offer great discounts? Hope I can ask that question. If you guys can't reply to thread about dealers - then please PM me.

Thanks,

Eddie

Dynaudio speakers have caught my interest. I've been researching them.

The Audiogon site has great High End gear - but even used it is still somewhat expensive.

[bobsticks]

.... Plus, they were seriously understaffed. Nobody even approached my family to see if they could help us. However,
I am going to attempt to call the remaining 2 stores and see if they are set up as Magnolia sites and fully operational. Circuit City was the worst. Salespeople were just talking to themselves and DID NOT CARE about customer service.

I read an article that says PLASMA is dead. pioneer has joined Fujitsu and is pulling out of the Plasma market. Should I buy now or wait and see how deep the discounts get? Any recommendations on Elite internet dealers that offer great discounts? Hope I can ask that question. If you guys can't reply to thread about dealers - then please PM me

Hey Eddie,

I wouldn't worry about the service aspect with a Magnolia. My experience is that they set those things up overstaffed. I've usually had to turn people away just to browse, so make those calls.

Often we blow a lot of heat at Best Buy sometimes warranted and sometimes not---and God knows Circuit City couldn't suck more---but Magnolia is a little different beast. I've read a great deal of positive things online about initial service and follow up.

I could be wrong, and if someone knows this to be false please challenge it, but I believe that Pioneer is bowing out of the 42 inch and under plasma categories. It's my understanding that they're going to concentrate on the larger, higher margin Elite models exclusively. I doubt that there will be any deep discounts.

I mentioned the Vienna Acoustics because they seem to do alot of things well and if they err, it's on the side of warmth. I found them fully capable of handling delicate passages with aplomb but lacking the high-end sizzle that can cause fatigue. This seems to fit your stated criteria...and this was just through a receiver. One can only imagine what they would bring to the table when backed by a proper amp.

Speaking of amps, there are a few guys on the forum that own the Viennas but rarely make it to the "Home Theater" section. I'm going to post up in the "Speakers" section and see if we can't get some input from some characters with hands-on experience.

Peace

--sticks

[TwinDad]

bobsticks,

Thanks for the reply. RE: the Vienna Acoustics and the "Speakers" section - what do you mean by post up?

Making sure kids practice piano and have not had chance to call Best Buys - it will have to wait till tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Eddie

[TwinDad]

bobsticks,

Thanks - I see what you did for me. I added my 2 cents also.

Greetings All!

My family and I went to a Best Buy that was supposed to have a Magnolia Home Theater Center - at least that was what they lied about on the phone. Did not get a chance to audition any "nicer" equipment such as the Vienna Acoustic speakers, etc. - because, well, they lied on the phone or just were clueless.

The positive aspect was that my wife and I were able to view the Transformers movie on Pioneer and Panasonic Plasmas that were side by side and we could not tell a difference given the poor viewing conditions. I have been reading that a vast majority of Pioneer Kuros have some "Buzzing" problems that have sparked a bounty of returns/exchanges/returns. Is this true of all Plasma TV's given the nature of the medium?
Do LCD's have a buzzing issue? What is best for gaming - Plasma or LCD? What LCD has the best "viewing angle" stats? Most of the LCD's looked washed out when not viewed dead on from a visual sweet spot.

What is coming out in the not-to-distant future that I should wait for in terms of Panasonic or Pioneer Plasmas or high end LCD's? Lots of questions - I know, I know. I don't want to waste my money and am being careful.

Thanks,

Eddie

[bobsticks]

Hey Eddie,

Too bad about the fake-out. It's a sad statement that the employees at the service desk in a 70,000 square foot store can't keep abreast of even the most basic of goings on.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?p=226244#post226244

That link should provide you with a little "hard data" about your potential investment. Notice none of the major players have over a three or four percent return history, so odds are pretty well in your favor.

For hardcore gaming--like three and four hours at a time--LCD is probably a safer bet, though it must be said that alot of the factors that have traditionally caused this have been successfully addressed by plasma manufacturers.

Peace

[TwinDad]

bobsticks,

Checking out link after this reply. 1 hour a day gaming mandatory time frame for the kids and only after they have done their homework, practiced piano, and practiced Martial Arts.

I don't play games. No time.

Is the German from a Rammstein song?

Eddie

[bobsticks]

Hey Eddie,

Traditionally the knock on plasmas has been the potential for "burn-in" on a static image. This was especially a concern for gamers as the scoreboxes and meters often transferred from scene to scene. So, despite the game continuing on their would be these imprints left on the screen from these non moving images.

This concern has recently been addressed by technology which "sweeps" pixels. I'm not really sure about the operational aspects of it but one of my crew has had a Samsung model with this for almost two years and has had zero problems. He is a prolific gamer and computer jockey.

The phrase is actually from a "Brian Brains" album from the omnipresent Martin Atkins. Loosely translated it says, "Time flies when you're having toast". Clearly, I have influences across the board.

Speaking of tunes, I picked up a couple of discs you might want to try out on the new system. Michel Camilo's Triangulo is full of some lovely latin rhythms and solid paino playing. The Maurizio Pollini Edition from Telarc is just what you'd expect from that esteemed label, including pieces from Schoenberg and Webern.

http://www.jazzweek.com/images/articles_photo/camilo_michel_triang.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/216FVWNPSTL._AA180_.jpg

Peace

[TwinDad]

bobsticks,

I will try this out: "Michel Camilo's Triangulo is full of some lovely latin rhythms and solid paino playing."

I already own the Pollini and many others by him. My wife and I have seen him in a solo
piano recital and it was transcendent. He played Chopin Sonata No.2 in B-flat minor, Op.35 ( Funeral March ), Beethoven's "Appasionata" piano sonata, and Schumann's Kinderszenen. He encored with Chopin's Nocturne in E minor and brought the house down. One of the 10 best I've ever attended.

I have been researching Plasma Buzz and evidently ALL Plasma TV's have this problem.
Now I'm back to the drawing board. I know I would hear the buzz, focus on the buzz, obsess about the buzz, and finally just get totally fixated on the problem.

I may try to find an LCD that allows for a wider viewing angle - maybe even just get a 46" screen to save money and pump it into the audio portion. Just thinking out loud. i know me and buying a product with a known issue just does not sit right,

Eddie

[blackraven]

TD, I'm not aware of any buzzing problem with LCD's. You should check out the Sony XBR's. We have not noticed any degredation of the picture from watching from the side of the TV.

Go for the 52" XBR4, you'll love it. The picture is fantastic! And no worries about glare. You'll be sorry if you go with a 46".

[TwinDad]

Thanks blackraven! My old TV was a Sony CRT XBR and it lasted 17 years before it flamed out. I miss that TV.

Greetings to ALLon the Forum,

Today is a good day. My wife is driving. I took my pain meds and we are on are way to see the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra in an All Dvorak Program:

Carnival Overture, Op. 92
Piano Concerto in G minor, Op. 33
Symphony No. 9 in E minor, Op. 95, From the New World

I'm a happy man.

See some of my more recent posts please and let me know if you can shed any light on my Plasma Buzzing vs LCD Viewing Angle concerns.

Your Friend,

Eddie

[blackraven]

Sounds like a good time.

[TwinDad]

Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers?

[bobsticks]

Very,very nice but do they make a center channel? For multi-channel SACD you must have coherency across, at least, the front soundstage and preferably the whole ensemble.

[bfalls]

I purchased the Sony KDL52XBR5 just before Christmas. I also have a Hitachi 57S715 which I was very happy with until getting the Sony. The picture is amazing on the XBR, almost three-dimensional. Colors are right-on and well saturated. I do ISF calibrations occasionally when I have time, but didn't have to change anything. The Standard mode grey-scale was perfect throughout the 20IRE-100IRE range. I needed only a slight tint adjustment.

The Vivid mode, by design is very bright, with high contrast and well, but not overly saturated colors. I hate it when I see colors bloom, most often it's the reds. Even with the color setting higher than other modes, it still didn't bloom. The only thing I did notice and has been the most critical complaint of LCDs, are occasional motion artifacts.

I'm still playing with settings. I purchased the Sony STR-DA5300ES receiver at the same time. It has settings designed specifically to work with the Bravia XBR displays to minimized the motion artifacts. I just haven't had the time to fully optimize the setup.

Rounding out the system I have Legacy Focus mains, Legacy Silver Screen center, T&A P-30 for rear surrounds and Klipsch RS-3s as side surrounds. Sources include PS3, HD-DVD A3-D2, Dishnetwork Vip622 HD receiver. I have my mains bi-amp'd using the Sony for the hi/mid range and a Yamaha M-65 for the Focus' 3-12"/ch woofers. Sounds impressive, but still in tweak-mode.

[TwinDad]

bobsicks: They do make a center channel speaker and surrounds as well. Someone was kind enough to offer me an extraordinary deal on the Adagios that he no longer needed. The rest of the speakers I would have to purchase through a dealer. They are a transmission line type speaker - whatever that means. They look BEAUTIFUL and are supposed to sound wonderful.

bfalls - That is quite a setup you have there. We liked SONY XBR TV's as well and spent a half an hour watching one the other day at Best Buy playing a Christina Aguilera Concert special on Blu-Ray Disc. Very nice!!

The Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers have my interest and I have printed out every review I could find to read tonight. I have to make a decision quickly or I may lose out on the offer. Wish I could demo them first but that is impossible because half a continent separates us distance-wise. Source is a highly respected member of Audio Community who read my story and allowed me to verify his name, existence, Audio credentials, etc.

What do you guys think?

Regards,

Eddie

[blackraven]

TD, you should really audition the speakers you buy. It would be a shame to buy a pair of speakers just based on a review and find that the sound is not to your liking. Go listen to the Studio and Signature Paradigms as well as the Vienna Acoustics which were on TAS's short list of recommended speakers and were speaker of the year a few years ago.
The Vienna's sound great and look like a piece of well made furniture as a bonus.

Here's my short list of recommended components

NAD master series amp/pre
Marantz SA8001 SACDP or the SA115
Cambridge Audio 840c CDP for STD CD or just use the marantz
REL Britannica 2 or 3 sub, Velodyne SPL 10 sub. B&W sub your were looking at
Paradigm Studio 100 or Signature 6 speakers and corresponding monitors and center channels
BR player
Sony XBR 52" LCD

I like the NAD Master series amps because they have a nice warmer sound that will fit your taste in music. You can always go with a Conrad Johnson set up or something by Bryston or Krell. You have so many options, I wish I had that budget starting out.

[TwinDad]

Greetings All,

This is what I am trying to say I want in a loudspeaker: DISPERSION!!!

The following excerpt is from Home Electronic Ideas Winter 2008 magazine article:

"SOUNDSTAGE and IMAGING are important concepts in Hi-Fi. DISPERSION refers to how well a loudspeaker can maintain a consistent sound throughout the room. Since we don't always sit in the "sweet spot" of a room, speakers with wide dispersion and a quality soundstage are ideal. Soundstage refers to how clearly and convincingly it reproduces a sense of space encoded on the recording.

SOUNDSTAGE and IMAGING are often used interchangeably, IMAGING actually relates how precisely sounds occur or emanate within a sounstage.

Picture a concert hall: This is your soundstage. Now imagine players standing on stage playing their instruments. These are your images."

I did not write the explanations above myself. They were paraphrased from the magazine mentioned earlier.

I, Eddie, am looking for loudspeakers known for their DISPERSION ability as a top priority.

Thanks,

Eddie

[TwinDad]

blackraven,

I am looking forward to auditioning the Paradigm Signature series and have found the following authorized dealers in my area:

AUDIO BREAKTHROUGHS, LTD.
1534 NORTHERN BLVD.
MANHASSET, NY
11030
516-627-7333

AUDIO/VIDEO SALON
1553 2ND AVE.
NEW YORK, NY
10028
212-249-4104

SAGA ELECTRONICS
20 WASHINGTON ST.
TENAFLY, NJ
07670
201-503-0700

I think there are closer dealers in CT and NJ. I just have to get the correct zip codes to enter into the search function at the Paradigm Signature Series Dealer Locater.

I found a review on the NAD Master Amp. Read it later. Marantz has always appealed to me. Lots of choices now. Soon I'll be fit enough to begin auditioning everything. I wonder how long it will take to go through all the recommended components that have been suggested.

Thanks,

Eddie

[bobsticks]

Great to hear that you're going to get out to at least audition the speakers. Given your criteria of "Dispersion" don't even bother with the Mozarts that they carry at Magnolia. They won't do it in a room the size of yours.

Check out the Beethoven Concert Grands as mains, perhaps to be accompanied by the Maestro Grand as a center and the Bach Grands as surrounds. I believe these would be a good fit with NAD and Marantz gear, and you can't beat REL subs with a stick.

[blackraven]

Eddie, where do you live in NY? I grew up in the Canarcy area of Brooklyn and my father eventually moved to Amityville on the water.

[TwinDad]

I broke our budget after totaling everything up. Wife not happy. We still need to replace a digital piano and buy Living Room Furniture.

I am going to print thread - and see what I want to keep and what can be replaced with a more modest product.

Oppo. I heard they are excellent. However, to get the best benefits AUDIO-WISE for MUSIC only - I need to hook up a DAC. What on Earth is a DAC? How does it work? Recommend a few budget minded DAC's for the Oppo players so I can enjoy multichannel SACD & CD/CD-R collection.

It was a brutal weekend - in terms of finance expenditure justification to my better half for the A/V system.

The part of the system I want to spend or focus on most is the Speakers. I'm willing to drop from a 50' to 42" Plasma to free up funds, go with an A/V Receiver instead of separates, and think affordable audio instead of high end.

Licking my wounds,

Eddie

[Glen B]

blackraven,

I am looking forward to auditioning the Paradigm Signature series and have found the following authorized dealers in my area:

AUDIO BREAKTHROUGHS, LTD.
1534 NORTHERN BLVD.
MANHASSET, NY
11030
516-627-7333

AUDIO/VIDEO SALON
1553 2ND AVE.
NEW YORK, NY
10028
212-249-4104

SAGA ELECTRONICS
20 WASHINGTON ST.
TENAFLY, NJ
07670
201-503-0700

I think there are closer dealers in CT and NJ. I just have to get the correct zip codes to enter into the search function at the Paradigm Signature Series Dealer Locater.

I found a review on the NAD Master Amp. Read it later. Marantz has always appealed to me. Lots of choices now. Soon I'll be fit enough to begin auditioning everything. I wonder how long it will take to go through all the recommended components that have been suggested.

Thanks,

Eddie

Have you actually contacted Audio-Video Salon yet ? It is my understanding that they charge a fee just to walk in the door to audition equipment. Also, SoundCity ( no association with the other Sound City) located at 58 West 45th Street is a Paradigm Dealer. I don't know if they have Paradigm Signature Series in stock but you can call and find out -- their number is (212) 575-0210, ask for salesman Wagner. I bought my Paradigm Monitor Series HT speakers and my PSB Stratus Gold i's from them and got nice discounts.


I broke our budget after totaling everything up. Wife not happy.

Earlier you mentioned an enclosed cabinet, particularly to keep out dust. Have you considered an open rack versus and enclosed one as a means of cost savings. In my experience not only are enclosed cabinets more expensive than open ones of similar materials and construction, they really do little or nothing to prevent dust build-up. In fact they actually hide dust and make it more difficult to get under and in back of components.

With an open rack, its much easier to keep clean because you reach every nook and cranny with a duster. I use the Swiffer Duster with extension wand on my racks for five minutes or less once or twice a week. I find that's all it takes to keep everything clean. The money you save on an open rack can be spent elsewhere. Just my $.02.

[TwinDad]

No I have not been there and would never go anywhere that charged a fee to audition equipment. Just me.

Eddie

[TwinDad]

Greetings,

I have 48 hours left to make a decision to purchase a slightly used pair of Acoustic Zen Adagios Floorstanders for $2700 before the deal falls through and they get listed on Audiogon for $3800 I believe.

Should I buy them and then slowly build up a surround sound speaker system by buying the center channel and rear surrounds from dealers as additional cash becomes available. I have to buy the Adagio Jr.'s and they are very expensive speakers for the center and rears.

Start off with all the electronics for a HT - just use mains for a while - and then come Christmas fill out the rest of the system for true HT.

Sound like a plan?

Please visit the Acoustic Zen site and read the reviews on the Adagios. At one point several years ago they were Stereophile Class A listed but have not been re-tested in a long time.

Thanks.

Eddie

[blackraven]

If the Zen's are your favorite speaker and your main preference is music, then buy them now and purchase the surrounds at a later date like you suggested. I think many of us here on AR have pieced together a system due to the cost of audiophile equipment.

Have you auditioned the Zens?

[TwinDad]

One crucial factor - I have twin 7 year old boys that are extremely active. Always rough-housing, play fighting, real fighting. Stand mounted speakers are out of the question at this point. They would crash into them - repeatedly. Trust me on this.

I need 4 floorstanders and a CC all from the same company that excel at music first and HT second. Further, SVS PB ULTRA 13 SUBWOOFER is too big. My wife said it is the size of an end table in Living Room. Need a smaller musical sub that does well with HT too.

Thanks,

Eddie

P.S. Auditioned B&W - did not care for them.

[blackraven]

Look at the PSB synchrony one's and two's along with Paradigm S6's. And I'm still a big fan of velodyne subs. You dont need a huge sub to do a good job in HT and music.
The velodyne SPL series subs are small and do a great job and sound better than most of the SVS subs I've heard. The SPL series are servo contrlooed and come with a mic and equalizer. Their Digital Drive subs are even better.

[TwinDad]

blackraven,

What about the Paradigm sub to go with Sig S6's?

Have you heard anything about Velodyne DD series?

A great many people have recommended JL Fathom 110, 112, 113 through PM.

Any comments?

I read a review on the Sig 8's and they really needed to be toed-in to find a sweet spot. Kind of narrow for me. I want a wide sweet spot. How are the Studio series?

Eddie

[blackraven]

TD, I recently auditioned the S6's with a friend and we did not feel they had a small sweet spot. The S8's are just a larger version of the S6's so I'm assuming that they are fairy similar. We also listend to the Studio 100's and they sounded very good as well. The S6 had a slightly warmer mid range and slightly better bass then the 100's.

The DD or digital Drive series velodyne subs are excellent The Paradigm subs are very good as well. The DD subs go down very low to about 18Hz. I dont know much about the Fathom subs.

I tend to like the idea of buying a sub from a company that specializes in subs only.

[bobsticks]

Hey Eddie,

Didja ever decide on anything?


NP: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/Jan06/Bach_Cantatas29_bissacd1461.jpg