It's All But Official: HD-DVD is Dead

[Woochifer]

The story that came out in the Hollywood Reporter on Thursday regarding Toshiba's pending HD-DVD withdrawal has now been confirmed by other sources. Reuters, the Wall Street Journal, and NHK (Japan's major broadcast network) are now reporting that Toshiba will officially announce the stoppage of all HD-DVD hardware production as early as this week. The AP is not reporting on any announcements, just saying that it "might" happen this week (AP typically requires independent confirmation from multiple sources before running with a story).

And this comes on the heels of the Wal-Mart announcement, which got the attention of MSM outlets like CBS News and the NY Times that have all been reporting the story as the obituary of HD-DVD.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1643184420080216
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iTHHXJdHiSuq8n1753HbYdPYHbKwD8URS5400
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/toshiba-give-up-hd-dvd-concede/story.aspx?guid=%7B2DB212E0-AB9B-4233-94F8-0FFC4AA2A470%7D&dist=hplatest
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/technology/16toshiba.html?em&ex=1203310800&en=28bb15cf2437f6fc&ei=5087

[L.J.]

http://i32.tinypic.com/23iduew.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5521/churchsignsk2.jpg

[Woochifer]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's freakin' hilarious!

[Rich-n-Texas]

I'm glad I looked at that now and not first thing in the morning!

[emaidel]

Isn't that clip from the first "Robocop" movie?

[SlumpBuster]

I thought the official announcement already came --- you know, when they were selling HD-DVD players at Wal-mart for $99. That struck me more like desperation than a vote of confidence.

Toshiba clearly saw the writing on the wall months ago. But they were going to clear out as much warehouse space as possible.

Now if Blu-Ray can only get past the class action lawsuits for the incompatible discs.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I thought the official announcement already came --- you know, when they were selling HD-DVD players at Wal-mart for $99. That struck me more like desperation than a vote of confidence.

Toshiba clearly saw the writing on the wall months ago. But they were going to clear out as much warehouse space as possible.

Now if Blu-Ray can only get past the class action lawsuits for the incompatible discs.

Its not bluray, its samsung over its BDP-1200 player. They are refusing(because they are too cheap) to issue a firmware upgrade to make the player compatible with BD+. I think the BDA ought to slap the piss out of Samsung for this, because it gives Bluray a black eye when it does not deserve it. All of the other manufacturers have no problem issuing firmware updates, why Samsung is taking this course of action is beyond me.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

The story that came out in the Hollywood Reporter on Thursday regarding Toshiba's pending HD-DVD withdrawal has now been confirmed by other sources. Reuters, the Wall Street Journal, and NHK (Japan's major broadcast network) are now reporting that Toshiba will officially announce the stoppage of all HD-DVD hardware production as early as this week. The AP is not reporting on any announcements, just saying that it "might" happen this week (AP typically requires independent confirmation from multiple sources before running with a story).

And this comes on the heels of the Wal-Mart announcement, which got the attention of MSM outlets like CBS News and the NY Times that have all been reporting the story as the obituary of HD-DVD.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL1643184420080216
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iTHHXJdHiSuq8n1753HbYdPYHbKwD8URS5400
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/toshiba-give-up-hd-dvd-concede/story.aspx?guid=%7B2DB212E0-AB9B-4233-94F8-0FFC4AA2A470%7D&dist=hplatest
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/technology/16toshiba.html?em&ex=1203310800&en=28bb15cf2437f6fc&ei=5087

Wooch,
The word I get from some bluray insiders who provide chipsets to toshiba say that toshiba quit making players after the Warner announcement. They had alot of unsold stock way back then, and the Warner announcement made them suspend production at least temporarily. Now its permanent.

[pixelthis]

Wooch,
The word I get from some bluray insiders who provide chipsets to toshiba say that toshiba quit making players after the Warner announcement. They had alot of unsold stock way back then, and the Warner announcement made them suspend production at least temporarily. Not its permanent.

ITS PERMANANT.
What really puts the air of finality on this whole mess is Walmarts announcement.
In it they just casually state that they will no longer stock HD, and only carry blu ray,
like they are saying they will stock a new line of clothes.
Its like they are saying , DISSMISSED.
A stockboy at the wall told me the same as others at Circuit, etc, mainly that HDDVD isn't moving.
Its over, now tosh just has to pull the plug:1:

[Mr Peabody]

Samsung did have a firmware upgrade come out recently, version 2.1 but i'm not sure if it's the BD+ thing. This could explain why 3:10 To Yuma won't play in mine. I'm waiting to see what prices do and looking to find a replacement for my 1200 and I will not buy Samsung products again. I did get the update but I'm not sure why the movie won't play. It shows a little graphic and says loading but nothing ever happens. The 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn't play either. That movie showed a pirate face and kept playing a sound effect like the menu sometimes does but no button would work to go to menu, play, pop-up, etc. If you hear of some way I can get in on a class action let me know. I'd be happy to get my money back and buy a decent player. The price of the 1200 is a bit expensive for just a great upconverting DVD player.

I believe I saw the Panasonic DMP-50 is supposed to output bitstream HD audio. It was lacking in a significant feature though which didn't let me get interested in the player but darned if I can remember what it was now. Marantz is supposed to be coming out with one. Maybe it won't be as expensive as the Denon.

[pixelthis]

Samsung did have a firmware upgrade come out recently, version 2.1 but i'm not sure if it's the BD+ thing. This could explain why 3:10 To Yuma won't play in mine. I'm waiting to see what prices do and looking to find a replacement for my 1200 and I will not buy Samsung products again. I did get the update but I'm not sure why the movie won't play. It shows a little graphic and says loading but nothing ever happens. The 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn't play either. That movie showed a pirate face and kept playing a sound effect like the menu sometimes does but no button would work to go to menu, play, pop-up, etc. If you hear of some way I can get in on a class action let me know. I'd be happy to get my money back and buy a decent player. The price of the 1200 is a bit expensive for just a great upconverting DVD player.

I believe I saw the Panasonic DMP-50 is supposed to output bitstream HD audio. It was lacking in a significant feature though which didn't let me get interested in the player but darned if I can remember what it was now. Marantz is supposed to be coming out with one. Maybe it won't be as expensive as the Denon.


Its easy to reconize pioneers because they're the ones with arrows in their backs.
Consider yourself a pincusion:1:

[pixelthis]

Anyway I HAVE READ on several of these links that tosh has already announced
the end in Japan.
And L.J your stuff is funny but nothing beats the Hitler bunker parody:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Samsung did have a firmware upgrade come out recently, version 2.1 but i'm not sure if it's the BD+ thing. This could explain why 3:10 To Yuma won't play in mine. I'm waiting to see what prices do and looking to find a replacement for my 1200 and I will not buy Samsung products again. I did get the update but I'm not sure why the movie won't play. It shows a little graphic and says loading but nothing ever happens. The 3rd Pirates of the Caribbean wouldn't play either. That movie showed a pirate face and kept playing a sound effect like the menu sometimes does but no button would work to go to menu, play, pop-up, etc. If you hear of some way I can get in on a class action let me know. I'd be happy to get my money back and buy a decent player. The price of the 1200 is a bit expensive for just a great upconverting DVD player.

I believe I saw the Panasonic DMP-50 is supposed to output bitstream HD audio. It was lacking in a significant feature though which didn't let me get interested in the player but darned if I can remember what it was now. Marantz is supposed to be coming out with one. Maybe it won't be as expensive as the Denon.

Mr, P,
It sounds like your player is having trouble with BD-java. And by the way, outputting of the bitstream is really just marketing hype. If you bitstream, and let your receiver do the decoding, you bypass the audio to all of the extras because you bypass the internal mixer of the player. There is no additional information being revealed by bitstreaming to the receiver. The receiver uses the same decoders as the players do. There is just no advantage to bitstreaming to the receiver, especially with most titles going forward using BD-Java and being authored in the advanced mode which prevents bitstreaming.

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Its easy to reconize pioneers because they're the ones with arrows in their backs.
Consider yourself a pincusion:1:

Pincushion meet village idiot.....

[L.J.]

Mr, P,
It sounds like your player is having trouble with BD-java. And by the way, outputting of the bitstream is really just marketing hype. If you bitstream, and let your receiver do the decoding, you bypass the audio to all of the extras because you bypass the internal mixer of the player. There is no additional information being revealed by bitstreaming to the receiver. The receiver uses the same decoders as the players do. There is just no advantage to bitstreaming to the receiver, especially with most titles going forward using BD-Java and being authored in the advanced mode which prevents bitstreaming.

Tell me about it. I was shocked at how many people ran out and purchased a Onkyo 1.3 AVR when their current unit would work perfectly fine with HD audio. Even PS3 owners were dumping HDMI 1.1/1.2 avr's for 1.3 :crazy:

[Woochifer]

Well, looks like Toshiba's saying NOT SO FAST ... at least until tomorrow! The company issued a statement on Monday indicating that they've not made any decisions about HD-DVD, but acknowledge that they will "review" their HD-DVD strategy.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6533132.html

Bill Hunt of The Digital Bits is saying that Toshiba is basically reviewing three options right now:


Additional reporting in the Japanese media suggests that Toshiba management is considering three options this week: 1) Continue selling HD-DVD players but stop manufacturing recorders, 2) Abandon the U.S. and Japanese markets and concentrate on Europe, and 3) Pull the plug on HD-DVD completely in all markets. Multiple industry sources are now telling The Bits that the third option is almost certainly the one Toshiba will take in order to cut their losses. An official press conference is expected likely within a week.

Another interesting bit reported by Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080217-official-hd-dvd-obituary-a-matter-of-days-not-weeks.html) is that Toshiba was already planning to exit the HD-DVD market before the Netflix and Wal-Mart announcements. The only hang up now seems to be how to clear out any remaining inventory as gracefully as possible.


Surprisingly, our source tells us that exit plans for HD DVD were already in the works before the Netflix announcement this past week. The loss of Warner Brothers demoralized the HD DVD camp, and when it was clear that deep price cuts weren't going to give HD DVD a second wind, the writing was on the wall. The only question, pre-Netflix announcement, was how to gracefully shutdown while liquidating existing product. Now that retailers and rental joints have turned their back publicly on the format, there's nothing graceful about the shutdown plans. There's little face to save on the consumer side.

What's more, our source says that Netflix and Wal-Mart were aware of HD DVD's impending official death, and rather than allow a long and drawn out withdrawal from the market that could burn customers, those companies chose to broadcast their intentions to the marketplace immediately. This puts pressure on Toshiba and its partners to exit the business without spending months trying to unload product that's essentially already obsolete.

[Woochifer]

Oh and BTW, Toshiba's stock price jumped 6% on the rumors about HD-DVD's pending demise.

http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUST35733920080218

[Mr Peabody]

So if I wanted to use HDMI to a new processor MC PCM is the best choice and will deliver the D-Tru and DTS-MA?

The Dolby website said there would be issues with the bitstream actually being allowed to bypass the internal DAC but some of the recent information made it sound like this may have been resolved. Sometimes I wonder if the industry ever wants us to understand what's going on. I don't really care where the decoding is done as long as I can take advantage of uncompressed sound and the latest Tru/MA.

I have my eye on the new Marantz processor but their 8002 BR player will be around $2k. I don't think I will go that high on a BR player.

And, what's up with 1.1, now 2.0? I thought 1.1 was called "final". I wonder if I should just wait on another BR player until something becomes standard.

[JeffKnob]

Tell me about it. I was shocked at how many people ran out and purchased a Onkyo 1.3 AVR when their current unit would work perfectly fine with HD audio. Even PS3 owners were dumping HDMI 1.1/1.2 avr's for 1.3 :crazy:


So I am confused. Is the goal for the decoding to be taking place in the player and be sent PCM via hdmi to the receiver? Is that they way the industry is going to be making this work? I was under the impression that the signal would be sent digitally (bitstream) via the hdmi 1.3 to the receiver where it will be decoded. :confused5:

[L.J.]

So I am confused. Is the goal for the decoding to be taking place in the player and be sent PCM via hdmi to the receiver? Is that they way the industry is going to be making this work? I was under the impression that the signal would be sent digitally (bitstream) via the hdmi 1.3 to the receiver where it will be decoded. :confused5:

Once decoded in the player, the info can be sent mc analog output (this is a good thing since there would be no need to upgrade your current gear) or HDMI v1.1 or up. The only advantage of HDMI 1.3 at this point is DTSMA but I think players that can decode this will be popping up soon. And SirT already mentioned, only the movie track can be bitstreamed, but not the additional content, PIP audio and all that crap. I guess you can run out and pick up a 1.3 AVR if you really want to, but why if you can still use your current gear(as long as your avr has mc inputs of course).

I'm enjoying TrueHD & MC PCM using my PS3 & HDMI v1.2 Yammie. I had to get a HDMI avr for the PS3 since it doesn't have MC analog ouput, but 1.3 was still not necessary.


Mr.P, why don't you use the 5.1 analog outs from your Samsung player?

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Hold on to your hats folks, the announcement should be very soon. My sources tell me that they are going to exit out entirely. I am also told you should hear from Paramount and Universal quite quickly after Toshiba announces their exit.

[Mr Peabody]

The biggest henderence is taking the time to figure out exactly how to do it. Does it have the capability, it's supposed to, but I have to go in and reassign a bunch of analog inputs. It's more difficult than it sounds. Although I can navigate the menu it's not the friendliest set up and the manual isn't much help.

My Samsung is lacking some of the HD audio decoding. What is the difference between Tru/MA and uncompressed 5.1? I have a HDMI switcher now, it would make sense to try the MC before upgrading. I think I got restless over my processor when I had an optical input go bad. The coaxial DD/DTS sounds very good. It would be interesting to hear the difference though.

Also, the Marantz had a few other features I wouldn't mind having. On the other hand there is that fear of getting something that might not sound as good as my Primare.

[L.J.]

The biggest henderence is taking the time to figure out exactly how to do it. Does it have the capability, it's supposed to, but I have to go in and reassign a bunch of analog inputs. It's more difficult than it sounds. Although I can navigate the menu it's not the friendliest set up and the manual isn't much help.

My Samsung is lacking some of the HD audio decoding. What is the difference between Tru/MA and uncompressed 5.1? I have a HDMI switcher now, it would make sense to try the MC before upgrading. I think I got restless over my processor when I had an optical input go bad. The coaxial DD/DTS sounds very good. It would be interesting to hear the difference though.

Also, the Marantz had a few other features I wouldn't mind having. On the other hand there is that fear of getting something that might not sound as good as my Primare.

Initially I thought uncompressed PCM had an advantage over TrueHD/DTSMA, but after doing some research, I'm thinking the TrueHD should sound just as good.

I'm not familiar with the 1200, does it decode TrueHD & PCM?

[Woochifer]

Well kids, it looks like HD-DVD has got less than four hours to go before Toshiba officially pulls the plug.

The company has called a press conference for 5pm Tokyo time (midnight PST), where they're expected to announce the immediate stoppage of all HD-DVD hardware manufacturing, and a complete withdrawal from retail stores by the end of March. What a waste this two-year format war has been.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Toshiba/Industry_Trends/Breaking:_Toshiba_Schedules_Press_Conference,_HD_D VD_Announcement_Expected/1479

Once this happens, then it supposedly frees up Paramount/Dreamworks and Universal from their HD-DVD support obligations. I know that Warner has HD-DVD titles due out on their release schedule through mid-June. I gotta wonder now how many of the announced titles from Warner, Paramount, and/or Universal will now actually come out. Would be kinda stupid for the TV ads for new releases to pimp the HD-DVD version given everything that's transpired.

[Mr Peabody]

If uncompressed is the reference HD audio then I need to get busy and figure out how to use the MC analog. That's a good question whether the 1200 does MC PCM, I'll have to get the manual out. It would be nice if BR did have some standardization before roll out. Heck, if Samsung don't give up a BD+ upgrade I may be getting another player before anything else. However, I won't be quick to jump on another it seems like most have some issues from Panasonics LFE issues via MC analog and PCM to glitches even with Denon's new 2500. So some patience and research will be the protocol :)

I wonder how long Toshiba could have kept the war going if they came out with a HD-DVD recorder?

[pixelthis]

Pincushion meet village idiot.....



I wouldn't call you a village idiot.

Your stupidity is more of a planetary nature:1:

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I wouldn't call you a village idiot.

Your stupidity is more of a planetary nature:1:

Whatever you dumb old fool. You do not know your a$$ from a hole in the ground.