Using Zone2 output to create 9.1 prescence channel

[wasch_24]

I have just purchased the Yamaha RXV-1400. Through the Cinema DSP processing this receiver will send an 'ambient' signal to two additional front speakers reffered to as the 'Presence' surround channels. Has anyone attempted/experienced this effect. I am considering purchasing another pair of Boston CR65's for this purpose.

The manual shows the 'Presence' speakers mounted on the wall higher and wider apart than the front mains so I am assuming that bookshelfs would suffice.

If you have tried or are using this setup was it worth it?

[Woochifer]

First thing's first, there is no such thing as 9.1, given that the highest level of source material available to consumers right now is 6.1. As far as that functionality goes, Yamaha provides that output for high mounted effect speakers (which is actually something that some audiophile record labels have experimented with in their DVD-A releases). I think that Yamaha's DSP processors work by creating separate ambient effect channels that vary in content depending on the DSP mode applied. With the presence channels engaged, the DSP processor outputs the ambient effect through those effect speakers and outputs the source signal direct to the mains. If you don't have the presence channels turned on, then that DSP effect is downmixed into the main speakers.

Whether or not you should get another set of speakers depends on how much you currently use those DSP effects. If most of your listening is done in the Normal mode, then it's not worthwhile at all. If you use the full battery of DSP modes and constantly tweak with the settings to adjust things like the room size, reflectivity, first echo timing, etc. then it might be a good thing to try out if you buy the speakers from a store with a 30-day return policy.

[wasch_24]

I guess I should have put the 9.1 in quotations.

I use the PL IIx Movie: Spectacle setting most of the time. Everything sounds great as is. I am still swooning from being bitten by the "bug" this weekend and am iching to buy all kinds of probably unnecessary extras. I was just looking for someone that has tried it, and hopefully didn't notice any real benefit, so I could disuade myself from spending more.

On another note. Have you ever seen any type of acoustic curtains or wall mountings to help with echo. Other than the theater system and couch my room is completely empty and sometimes has quite a pingy echo to it.

Thanks

[aimen]

when presence speakers are activated, ur amp wont power rear surround channels ( to my knowledge)
its like 5.1 + 2 ch
so u can place ur rear sur speakers at presence location and give it a try


regards

[wasch_24]

The Yamaha RXV-1400 actually sends the ambient 'Presence' channels through the
Zone 2 speaker ouputs.

So when using PL IIx to create 7.1 in addition to the DSP a discrete Left and Right Presence is created.

Essentially "9.1", as written in the manual.

[Woochifer]

I guess I should have put the 9.1 in quotations.

I use the PL IIx Movie: Spectacle setting most of the time. Everything sounds great as is. I am still swooning from being bitten by the "bug" this weekend and am iching to buy all kinds of probably unnecessary extras. I was just looking for someone that has tried it, and hopefully didn't notice any real benefit, so I could disuade myself from spending more.

On another note. Have you ever seen any type of acoustic curtains or wall mountings to help with echo. Other than the theater system and couch my room is completely empty and sometimes has quite a pingy echo to it.

Thanks

Yeah, it does sound like you're quite bitten! That receiver alone will give you a lot to chew on, so take your time and just enjoy it. Good to see that you're holding it together just enough to recognize that some of your purchasing impulses right now might be a bit irrational.

The nice thing about using high mounted presence speakers is that it allows you to convey the DSP effect spatiality without altering the signal that goes to the main speakers. However, I'm not sure if it's something you want, unless you really like the DSP effects and tinker with the parameters.

As far as taming the echoes go, there are plenty of room treatment products out there. Room acoustics are actually a vitally important factor in your system performance, and one that gets overlooked all too frequently. Manufacturers are waking up to this, and Yamaha's YPAO function directly addresses the effects of room acoustics. However, room calibration can only do so much for a reverberant room. If you have a very live sounding room with lots of reflective surfaces, then even a neutral sounding speaker can sound harsh and bright. From what you're describing, you've obviously got a lot of slap echo in your room.

Simple ways to reduce this "slap echo" include hanging wall tapestries, thick rugs, cushy furniture, bookcases along the side or backwalls, etc. The fewer flat reflective surfaces you got in your room, the better. More advanced ways of taming a room include lining up acoustic panels or foam behind the speakers, along the side walls (position them by sitting at your listening position and have someone hold a mirror along a wall -- where you see the tweeter is where you should position a piece of sound absorbing material because that's the reflection point), and even overhead. Things like diffusers in the back of the room or sidewalls also work -- diffusers can be something as simple as a bookcase with lots of books of different sizes. Sir Terrence who has a lot of experience with room acoustics has said that rubberized blackout curtains work well to dampen room echoes, and a local home theater installer in my neighborhood does the same thing with his installations.

Using simple building materials, I made my own acoustic panels and they do a good job at tightening up the overall sound, which increases the intelligibility with vocals and the imaging. If you want to see what it looks like, here's the link.

http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=2448

And some previous threads on this topic...

http://forums.audioreview.com/html/audio/07/0EF8B7DD.php

http://forums.audioreview.com/html/audio/07/0EF8BD0B.php

http://forums.audioreview.com/html/audio/07/0EF99FDD.php

Also, some good primers on this topic on Harman's website written by Floyd Toole who's done a lot of research on the effects of room acoustics.

http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=default

[wasch_24]

Simple ways to reduce this "slap echo" include hanging wall tapestries, thick rugs, cushy furniture, bookcases....

Hanging tapestry is one thing I have been seriously considering. The house is new and the standard off-white is already getting old. Instead of painting the room I was considering hanging heavy fabric from floor to ceiling with plenty of folds in it. The wife approves of the idea, so if it will dampen the echoes then I am all about unleashing her with the sewing machine.

[italianos]

when presence speakers are activated, ur amp wont power rear surround channels ( to my knowledge)
its like 5.1 + 2 ch
so u can place ur rear sur speakers at presence location and give it a try
I

regards
Can zone 2 on a 5.1 yamaha RX-V1000 be used to create presence speaker? i also have other DD units to use with the yamaha if needed. Also can WHARFEDALE WH-2 surround speakers be uase for the Presence speaker channel?
thank you

[Astro]

hey ive actually got the rx-v2500 and yes i use precence. To me i would never go back to 'normal' set up mainly beacause i use the dsp all the time for movies. Also when i listen to a cd that is recorded live i switch it to the 'hall in vienna' setting or the ('concert hall' setting for the 1400) and this sounds like your actually in the stadium or hall where the source is playing.
That is one of the main factors for me to choose yamaha, beacause of thier wide selections of dsp soundfields and also the precence option.
No its not 9.1 its 7.1 plus effects or zone 2. the precence channels send signals from the main and the centre channels.

As woochie said, if you are sereiosly into the dsp soundfields then yea go for it, but if you dont use them much probably not worth it.

[JamezHill]

for the presence speakers, would you recommend regular bookshelf speakers, or should I look into dipole/bipole speakers?

[Astro]

[QUOTE=JamezHill]for the presence speakers, would you recommend regular bookshelf speakers, or should I look into dipole/bipole speakers?[
i'm using regular bookshelf speaks pretty much same size as my rears. I've never used di pole's but given that the precence are to add more 'depth' and are mainly for 'lifting' the dialog in the movie, ide stick with bookshelf speaks.

[Rob1956]

I just ordered the Yamaha RX-V657 receiver so I don't have the owner's manual yet. Can the presence speakers be mounted "inboard" of the two mains, or do they need to be mounted "outboard" for optimum effect? I'm thinking of placing them on top of the bridge of my entertainment unit, which would locate them about 6 1/2 feet off the ground, or about 3 feet above the top of my main speakers. However this of course would place them inboard of the two mains.

[GMichael]

I just ordered the Yamaha RX-V657 receiver so I don't have the owner's manual yet. Can the presence speakers be mounted "inboard" of the two mains, or do they need to be mounted "outboard" for optimum effect? I'm thinking of placing them on top of the bridge of my entertainment unit, which would locate them about 6 1/2 feet off the ground, or about 3 feet above the top of my main speakers. However this of course would place them inboard of the two mains.

Outbound is best but inbound is possible. Here is your manual.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/RX-V657.pdf

[Rob1956]

Thanks so much!

[GMichael]

Thanks so much!

Anytime. Glad I could help.

[mustang]

I have just purchased the Yamaha RXV-1400. Through the Cinema DSP processing this receiver will send an 'ambient' signal to two additional front speakers reffered to as the 'Presence' surround channels. Has anyone attempted/experienced this effect. I am considering purchasing another pair of Boston CR65's for this purpose.

The manual shows the 'Presence' speakers mounted on the wall higher and wider apart than the front mains so I am assuming that bookshelfs would suffice.

If you have tried or are using this setup was it worth it?
I have that same receiver. I also have extra speakers and an amplifier. The receiver will not let you run the PRESENCE and SURROUND BACK speakers at the same time...even if you have a separate amp. I have even contacted YAMAHA directly and they confirmed this.

[GMichael]

I have that same receiver. I also have extra speakers and an amplifier. The receiver will not let you run the PRESENCE and SURROUND BACK speakers at the same time...even if you have a separate amp. I have even contacted YAMAHA directly and they confirmed this.

You are correct. But the original post was from last year.