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melvin walker
02-05-2008, 05:41 AM
First what is an audiophile ? High -End Audio The complete Guide defines an audiophile "Attempt at making the hardware disappear , when listening for pleasure or listening critically , constantly changing equipment , listening to the equipment rather than the music."

I have noticed that the majority of the audio equipment displayed on AV is not high -end .
Whether vintage are new .
"

Luvin Da Blues
02-05-2008, 05:54 AM
I have noticed that the majority of the audio equipment displayed on AV is not high -end."


And.......

SlumpBuster
02-05-2008, 05:59 AM
Another cohesive and well thought out question from Melvin!

Its a garbage question if you're going to rely on that garbage definition. In the first part of the definition, an audiophile is trying to "make the equipment disappear." But, in the second part of the definition, the audiophile is "listening to the equipment rather than the music." The definition defeats itself. Also, "constantly changing equipment" doesn't define anything. If that were criteria, then SVI would be the most accomplished audiophile here.

Mel, you jump from what is an "audiophile" to what is "hi-end." The two are not related. Being an audiophile is not dependant on the equipment you own. It is dependant on you level of appreciation. You can be an audiophile with no equipment. If you are going to the free concert series in local parks, you can be an audiophile. If you're doing the rounds of the hi-fi shops on the weekends, you can be an audiophile. Just as you can an oneophile relying on free wine tastings.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 05:59 AM
That depends. Do you believe that being an audiophile is dependent on the price a person pays for their audio equipment? I don't see that in your definition, but it appears to be what matters to you.
So, what definition are we going by?

markw
02-05-2008, 06:09 AM
What a horrid way to listen to music. That's like focusing in on a tiny imperfection on a beautiful woman's shoulder while making slow, sweet love.

After years of "critical listening" with a specific goal in mind, I'm just pleased as punch that my systems do an excellent job of making the music I listen to at home sound very much like the music I listen to live considering the physical and economic constraints that we mere mortals must abide by.

That was the aforementioned "specific goal" I had in mind. Once that goal has been achieved to one's own satisfaction, what's the point of continuing? You can only go half way into the forest before you start coming out of it.

Apparently, since you swear your 50 year-old JBL's are the epitome of speaker design and the Marantz 7C/9 combo is the ultimate in amplifier design, you can't logically argue this point.

And, as for that "making the hardware disappear" stuff, just leave your equipment on the street or your front porch. Believe me, it''ll disappear.

You might want to try on a new suit. The old one is getting threadbare.

noddin0ff
02-05-2008, 06:19 AM
Is there anyone on this forum that knows the difference between "are" (a verb) and "or" (a conjunction)?

markw
02-05-2008, 06:21 AM
Is there anyone on this forum that knows the difference between "are" (a verb) and "or" (a conjunction)?What or you trying to say?

Yeah, I caught it, too.

SlumpBuster
02-05-2008, 06:26 AM
Slumpy's Sub $350.00 "audiophile" kit: Grado SR-60 headphones ($69), Project Head Box MkII ($129), Cambridge DVD player or the like on Ebay for approx $125.

Anyone care to argue?

Ajani
02-05-2008, 06:32 AM
First what is an audiophile ? High -End Audio The complete Guide defines an audiophile "Attempt at making the hardware disappear , when listening for pleasure or listening critically , constantly changing equipment , listening to the equipment rather than the music."

I have noticed that the majority of the audio equipment displayed on AV is not high -end .
Whether vintage are new .
"

Based on your definition there are numerous audiophiles on this site... However, you are clearly not one of them....

The fact that you hold on to 50 year old equipment... means that you are not 'constantly changing equipment'...

And further, I would suspect that many of the posters here have spent more on audio equipment in the last 3 years, than you have in the last 20.... so to use your own words to describe your behaviour, it's.... CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP.....

Now stop pretending that your vintage gear is the best thing ever made, as an excuse to justify the fact that you can no longer afford 'high end' equipment... and even better yet... stop pretending to be an audiophile....

Feanor
02-05-2008, 06:32 AM
First what is an audiophile ? High -End Audio The complete Guide defines an audiophile "Attempt at making the hardware disappear , when listening for pleasure or listening critically , constantly changing equipment , listening to the equipment rather than the music."

I have noticed that the majority of the audio equipment displayed on AV is not high -end . Whether vintage are new .
"

Per your quote above, Robert Harley doesn't actually say the the audiophile equipment has to be high end. According to Harley, the audiophile is a person who is making an attempt at making the hardware disappear, etc.. A person who is contrained by budget, time, or environment but is doing his/her best within these contraints can fairly called an audiphile. Do you not agree? In any case even the highest end equipment doesn't disappear.

Another part of the Harley definition, (not that I necessarily agree with this part), is the the audiophile is "constantly changing equipment". I guess that leaves you out given your systems are mostly vintage when better newer equipment is available.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 06:43 AM
That depends. Do you believe that being an audiophile is dependent on the price a person pays for their audio equipment? I don't see that in your definition, but it appears to be what matters to you.
So, what definition are we going by?
A very easy question . Certainly the price of audio equipment is critical. I again will use cars as an example, There is no doubt that Ferrari builds the finest sports cars in the world , Rolls Royce the finest luxury cars and Mercedes S series the finest high performance sedans. They are all expensive and not for everyone.

Audio is no different the finest audio equipment is very expensive ,it is not unusual to spend as much as $20,000 for power amps or $50,000 for speakers. I would not be surprise that an audiophiles system today would be in the $40,000 range.

The audiophile is looking for the best. That means spending money , making changes , in a never ending attempt for perfection.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 06:45 AM
Is there anyone on this forum that knows the difference between "are" (a verb) and "or" (a conjunction)?

Yeah, several people have pointed that out. Not sure why he ignores it and keeps using are instead of or. I'm starting to get used to it. Maybe that's his plan.

How many lights do you see?
Four.
No, there are 5. Look again!

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 06:47 AM
Per your quote above, Robert Harley doesn't actually say the the audiophile equipment has to be high end. According to Harley, the audiophile is a person who is making an attempt at making the hardware disappear, etc.. A person who is contrained by budget, time, or environment but is doing his/her best within these contraints can fairly called an audiphile. Do you not agree? In any case even the highest end equipment doesn't disappear.

Another part of the Harley definition, (not that I necessarily agree with this part), is the the audiophile is "constantly changing equipment". I guess that leaves you out given your systems are mostly vintage when better newer equipment is available.

You are correct I am no longer an audiophile. I ceased making attempts at upgrading audio equipment in 1975. For me I had reached the end of the line , my audiophile days lasted 20 years.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 06:48 AM
A very easy question . Certainly the price of audio equipment is critical. I again will use cars as an example, There is no doubt that Ferrari builds the finest sports cars in the world , Rolls Royce the finest luxury cars and Mercedes S series the finest high performance sedans. They are all expensive and not for everyone.

Audio is no different the finest audio equipment is very expensive ,it is not unusual to spend as much as $20,000 for power amps or $50,000 for speakers. I would not be surprise that an audiophiles system today would be in the $40,000 range.

The audiophile is looking for the best. That means spending money , making changes , in a never ending attempt for perfection.

In that case, I reject you as having any kind of clue. I will no longer waste my time with you.
Unless it's to pick on you for being foolish.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 06:49 AM
Yeah, several people have pointed that out. Not sure why he ignores it and keeps using are instead of or. I'm starting to get used to it. Maybe that's his plan.

How many lights do you see?
Four.
No, there are 5. Look again!
Is your interest grammar are audio , judging by your audio system it isn't audio.

markw
02-05-2008, 06:51 AM
A very easy question . Certainly the price of audio equipment is critical.

Audio is no different the finest audio equipment is very expensive ,it is not unusual to spend as much as $20,000 for power amps or $50,000 for speakers. I would not be surprise that an audiophiles system today would be in the $40,000 range.

The audiophile is looking for the best. That means spending money , making changes , in a never ending attempt for perfection.I guess it's time for you to sell all that old, outdated, obsolete crap you call a hi-fi and start looking and spending on some new stuff so you can hold on the your cherished title.

And, since you're in a spell-check mood, "I would not be surprise" makes no sense. The tense is wrong. Had you said either "I would not be surprised that an,,," or "It would not surprise me to see that an...".

In either case, your ignorance and lack of class is showing again. After all, how can one claim superiority if one cannot communicate correctly?

GMichael
02-05-2008, 06:52 AM
Is your interest grammar are audio , judging by your audio system it isn't audio.
Another foolish post by a foolish person. Try again.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 06:53 AM
Based on your definition there are numerous audiophiles on this site... However, you are clearly not one of them....

The fact that you hold on to 50 year old equipment... means that you are not 'constantly changing equipment'...

And further, I would suspect that many of the posters here have spent more on audio equipment in the last 3 years, than you have in the last 20.... so to use your own words to describe your behaviour, it's.... CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP.....

Now stop pretending that your vintage gear is the best thing ever made, as an excuse to justify the fact that you can no longer afford 'high end' equipment... and even better yet... stop pretending to be an audiophile....
My dated audio equipment is worth three times as much as your so-called new audio equipment !
Yes I am not an audiophile but neither are you !

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 06:55 AM
Is there anyone on this forum that knows the difference between "are" (a verb) and "or" (a conjunction)?
Are you hiding behind the fact that your audio system is low cost high-fi !

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 06:57 AM
And.......
An excellent audio system , a true audiophile !

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 07:00 AM
I guess it's time for you to sell all that old, outdated, obsolete crap you call a hi-fi and start looking and spending on some new stuff so you can hold on the your cherished title.
I would enjoy selling my old outdated obsolete equipment to you , but judging by your equipment , you can't afford it.

markw
02-05-2008, 07:01 AM
Yes I am not an audiophile but neither are you !And who here ever claimed to be?

Now you're creating straw men? How disingenius of you.

markw
02-05-2008, 07:07 AM
I would enjoy selling my old outdated obsolete equipment to you , but judging by your equipment , you can't afford it.Wow. I'm hurt. how can I ever show my face here again.

It's too bad you'll never get to hear my equipment. I've heard your speakers (in other locations, of course) and, for my purposes, my speakers beat yours hands down. They are nice but present a sound and image that harks back to the days of Eisehnower and Magnavox consoles. Not that that's bad, mind you, but there have been tremendous improvements since then. If all I wanted was a trip down memory lane then they would be perfect but, sorry, that's not for me. I don't have the toom to store antiques. So, enjoy your big, impressive boxes. a perfect, bloated, icon of days past, just like you.

It's too bad you can't appreciate a svelte planar. Obviously, you havent listened to music in the past fifty years either.

("Is your interest grammar are audio" Marvin, you ignorant, no stupid, putz. Don't you ever learn?)

Ajani
02-05-2008, 07:10 AM
My dated audio equipment is worth three times as much as your so-called new audio equipment !
Yes I am not an audiophile but neither are you !

Congratulations!!!! I'm glad you finally realize that....

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 07:29 AM
I would enjoy selling my old outdated obsolete equipment to you , but judging by your equipment , you can't afford it.

Wow, how far we have come. What's really striking to me is that my Grandfather owned a pair of speakers just like the ones you own Mr. Walker. I just don't remeber him being a pr!ck about it to others who didn't have the same gear. If you relish your old gear, thats great. I applaud you for your wise purchse 30 YEARS ago.

You remind me of the one drunk who hangs out at the end of the bar. All he can do is be a loudmouthed ass, and remind people of what a "star" he was in High School. Relive the glory days old man, and keep telling yourself that it was the best it will ever be. But I'm not trapped in your delusional ramblings, and neither are the rest of us. As my father in law says "I could complain, but no one would care. So why complain. If your not happy, work to change it. If not, shut the hell up!"

You need to go to www.audiowannabesfortotallosers.com I think you would fit right in. You might even get to be president some day.

basite
02-05-2008, 07:47 AM
A very easy question . Certainly the price of audio equipment is critical. I again will use cars as an example, There is no doubt that Ferrari builds the finest sports cars in the world , Rolls Royce the finest luxury cars and Mercedes S series the finest high performance sedans. They are all expensive and not for everyone.

Audio is no different the finest audio equipment is very expensive ,it is not unusual to spend as much as $20,000 for power amps or $50,000 for speakers. I would not be surprise that an audiophiles system today would be in the $40,000 range.

The audiophile is looking for the best. That means spending money , making changes , in a never ending attempt for perfection.


so you say the one owning all the exotic audio gears 'just because he can' is more of an audiophile than another person, who owns slightly less exotic gear but actually cares about it, and tries to get the most out of it?

let me give you the example with cars: there are people owning all the rolls royces and ferraris, just because they can afford them, but there are also people looking for a really good car and cannot afford the ferrari or the rolls, they settle with a B&W 5 series, but does that mean they like the car less than the one with the rolls? NO. all it says is that the person with the rolls has more money.

same with audio. most people cannot afford to have all the exotic gears, but does that mean that they don't care about it? and does it mean that the person with the best equipment ever made cares about it? no.

sure equipment has something to do with being an audiophile, and sure an audiophile is always looking for 'the best', which, by the way, hasn't been defined yet. I for example would hate the sound of your JBL's, just because I don't like the JBL sound, and especially not the horn sound.

no.
Being an audiophile involves loving your gears as much as the music. It takes care, time, and love.

you can be an audiophile if you haven't upgraded your equipment for the past 20 years. Because there is always something you can improve in your system without having to upgrade. Also, there is always better, it just never ends, so following your definition (well, not yours, but one from some big guide to things that aren't even defined, and can't be defined), no one on this entire planet is an audiophile.

that said, evaluate my system as much as you want, and say whatever you want, but all I know is that I love my system, I care about it, just as I love the music. That, In my opinion, makes me and other people an audiophile.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 07:47 AM
I'm NOT clicking on that link Beefy!:hand:

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 07:50 AM
What a horrid way to listen to music. That's like focusing in on a tiny imperfection on a beautiful woman's shoulder while making slow, sweet love.
Oh Jeeeeeeeeezzz. :cryin:

(doing my best to trash this thread)

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 07:52 AM
Oh Jeeeeeeeeezzz. :cryin:

(doing my best to trash this thread)

It would have to be some kind of imperfection. Like a festering blackhead, or a really hairy mole. That could ruin the mood, no matter how hot she is.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 07:55 AM
No. Only if she had hairs growing out her nipples.

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 07:59 AM
No. Only if she had hairs growing out her nipples.

I must confess I once dated a gal who had hair on her nipples. She was subsequently dropped in lieu of someone who didn't. It was rather distracting.

Luvin Da Blues
02-05-2008, 08:00 AM
I must confess I once dated a gal who had hair on her nipples. She was subsequently dropped in lieu of someone who didn't. It was rather distracting.

Well there goes my breakfast.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 08:04 AM
Equating price with love for sound is like saying that the guy with the most expensive pool cue will always win in a match. Just foolishness.

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 08:05 AM
Well there goes my breakfast.

Why? Were you going to eat a hairy nipple, and now are reconsidering? Please don't stop on my account. If hairy nipples are your bag, we are all ok with that.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:08 AM
Equating price with love for sound is like saying that the guy with the most expensive pool cue will always win in a match. Just foolishness.
Uhhh... EXCUSE ME?!?!?!

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:09 AM
Isn't Hairy Nipple the name of a mixed drink?

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:11 AM
I must confess I once dated a gal who had hair on her nipples. She was subsequently dropped in lieu of someone who didn't. It was rather distracting.
I was waiting for this one. :ihih:

I also dated a gal who had a single hair growing out of her aeriola (sp?) She was actually very proud of that hair, and wouldn't let me bite it off. :incazzato:

GMichael
02-05-2008, 08:13 AM
Isn't Hairy Nipple the name of a mixed drink?

That's a "slippery nipple." Not the same.

I have a $2000 Q and have been beaten by guys who used a house Q.
I have also beaten guys who use $20,000 Q's.
Price of equipment does not equal love for the game and/or ability.

Luvin Da Blues
02-05-2008, 08:22 AM
Why? Were you going to eat a hairy nipple, and now are reconsidering? Please don't stop on my account. If hairy nipples are your bag, we are all ok with that.

No and No, I like my women barren. :ihih:

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:25 AM
I have a $2000 Q...
:yikes: Oh... Nevermind.

(mine's $200)

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:26 AM
No and No, I like my women barren. :ihih:
Barren? Did you mean friggid LDB? :smilewinkgrin:

GMichael
02-05-2008, 08:30 AM
:yikes: Oh... Nevermind.

(mine's $200)

Doesn't mean a thing when it comes to skill. Or being an audiophile.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:33 AM
I know GM. I love my Viking Q. The action I get on the cueball is pretty astonishing in my mind, so that makes it all good. :thumbsup:

GMichael
02-05-2008, 08:41 AM
Viking makes a very nice Q. The best part is that whether you buy one of their $100 Q's or one of their $1000 Q's, you are getting the same quality shaft. And that's where it counts. The decorations on the butt end are all about looking good.
The only reason I spent that much is because I had just won $5000 in a tournament down in PA. The billiards expo was going on in the next room. Saw a Q I wanted and figured, "why not give a little back to where it came from?"

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 08:44 AM
That's cool. I'll bet you miss the excitement and competition don't you?

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 08:48 AM
And so it goes. Speaking of stuck records I see Melvin is still with us. Melvin you have not evaluated my system yet.

Luvin Da Blues
02-05-2008, 08:52 AM
And so it goes. Speaking of stuck records I see Melvin is still with us. Melvin you have not evaluated my system yet.


Your stuff is too new John. He can't evaluate it for another 20 are so years

JSE
02-05-2008, 08:56 AM
I'm sorry but I have to speak out.

I have been on this site for several years now and I have learned what "I thought" was a lot of helpful and useful information from who "I thought" were knowledgeable members of these forums.

Melvin has shown me the light. I now know you crackheads don't know what the hell your talking about. Your equipment sucks and to be honest, I think you guys are way too stuck on trying to take advantage of the current technology in audio and video. We all, well Melvin and I know, the best in audio is from 40 to 60 years ago. Consumer reports even says, I mean said, it was so back then. Who am I and who the heck are you guys to question consumer reports and quite frankly, Melvin? We need to embrace our elderly and learn from them. Even if they have a mild case of MadCow. I'm just glad Shady Days Assisted Living has free wi-fi so Melvin can impart his knowledge upon us.

So to all your dumbarse, inexperienced, know-nothings.......................Screw You! You have wasted the last, um, 5 years of my audio/video life? I tried to put together and very modest system that sounded good. I am not a Audio or HT enthusiast but rather would like a decent system to watch movies and listen to music. That's all I have ever wanted and you took advantage of me by spouting off what I thought was valid information. Who knew you guys were really just idiots living in the present. I feel so ashamed.

I must take a step back at this time and decide if I can still allow myself to be a part of this "sham" of a forum. That or wait until Melvin starts his own like SVI did. I have really learned alot about Dinosours over the past year as well.

Ashame-ed-ly...........JSE

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 08:57 AM
He has already declared me low class.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 09:06 AM
That's cool. I'll bet you miss the excitement and competition don't you?

Yeah, I do. Especially when they invite me back each year to ref at their team semi-finals. After a weekend of hanging out with my old friends and meeting new ones, I start to really miss "the good old days."
I keep in touch with most of them on their local website. The operator there set me up with my old status of Division Representative even though I haven't been a member in almost 3 years. It's nice to keep up with the goings on.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 09:08 AM
I'm sorry but I have to speak out.

I have been on this site for several years now and I have learned what "I thought" was a lot of helpful and useful information from who "I thought" were knowledgeable members of these forums.

Melvin has shown me the light. I now know you crackheads don't know what the hell your talking about. Your equipment sucks and to be honest, I think you guys are way too stuck on trying to take advantage of the current technology in audio and video. We all, well Melvin and I know, the best in audio is from 40 to 60 years ago. Consumer reports even says, I mean said, it was so back then. Who am I and who the heck are you guys to question consumer reports and quite frankly, Melvin? We need to embrace our elderly and learn from them. Even if they have a mild case of MadCow. I'm just glad Shady Days Assisted Living has free wi-fi so Melvin can impart his knowledge upon us.

So to all your dumbarse, inexperienced, know-nothings.......................Screw You! You have wasted the last, um, 5 years of my audio/video life? I tried to put together and very modest system that sounded good. I am not a Audio or HT enthusiast but rather would like a decent system to watch movies and listen to music. That's all I have ever wanted and you took advantage of me by spouting off what I thought was valid information. Who knew you guys were really just idiots living in the present. I feel so ashamed.

I must take a step back at this time and decide if I can still allow myself to be a part of this "sham" of a forum. That or wait until Melvin starts his own like SVI did. I have really learned alot about Dinosours over the past year as well.

Ashame-ed-ly...........JSE

Very nice. I'd fire a greenie at you if I could.

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 09:12 AM
That or wait until Melvin starts his own like SVI did. I have really learned alot about Dinosours over the past year as well.

Ashame-ed-ly...........JSE




I also learned a lot about dinosaurs on SVI's site. Do you think all that boy on boy dinosaur action is why there were no more little dinosaurs and they became extinct?

GMichael
02-05-2008, 09:17 AM
I also learned a lot about dinosaurs on SVI's site. Do you think all that boy on boy dinosaur action is why there were no more little dinosaurs and they became extinct?

Not directly. But because of these blatantly lustful and inappropriate actions, they were deemed unworthy. That's when the powers to be sent an asteroid to destroy them and their sinful ways.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 09:18 AM
He has already declared me low class.

You're still the head of my class.

JSE
02-05-2008, 09:20 AM
I also learned a lot about dinosaurs on SVI's site. Do you think all that boy on boy dinosaur action is why there were no more little dinosaurs and they became extinct?


Could be but the one known ramification was the new breed of female dinasour called the "Licalotapous".

basite
02-05-2008, 09:20 AM
I also learned a lot about dinosaurs on SVI's site. Do you think all that boy on boy dinosaur action is why there were no more little dinosaurs and they became extinct?


melvin cursed them, because their speakers weren't 12 feet apart...

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 09:20 AM
Wow. I'm hurt. how can I ever show my face here again.

It's too bad you'll never get to hear my equipment. I've heard your speakers (in other locations, of course) and, for my purposes, my speakers beat yours hands down. They are nice but present a sound and image that harks back to the days of Eisehnower and Magnavox consoles. Not that that's bad, mind you, but there have been tremendous improvements since then. If all I wanted was a trip down memory lane then they would be perfect but, sorry, that's not for me. I don't have the toom to store antiques. So, enjoy your big, impressive boxes. a perfect, bloated, icon of days past, just like you.

It's too bad you can't appreciate a svelte planar. Obviously, you havent listened to music in the past fifty years either.

("Is your interest grammar are audio" Marvin, you ignorant, no stupid, putz. Don't you ever learn?)

There are outstanding speakers today. They are very experience.
Again using the car example. In 1954 Mercedes sold the gull-wing 300SL for about $7500
Today that same car came bring on average from $150,000 to $500,000.
The Hartsfield speakers are no different , in 1954 a Hartsfield sold for about $800.00 that speaker today sells for about $18,000 to $30,000 depending on the year.
I have the earlier model horn which was changed later to lower cost. That Hartsfield brings even more.

I listen to music everyday I have three other audio systems. Are you an audiophile ?

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 09:26 AM
There are outstanding speakers today. They are very experience.
Again using the car example. In 1954 Mercedes sold the gull-wing 300SL for about $7500
Today that same car came bring on average from $150,000 to $500,000.
The Hartsfield speakers are no different , in 1954 a Hartsfield sold for about $800.00 that speaker today sells for about $18,000 to $30,000 depending on the year.
I have the earlier model horn which was changed later to lower cost. That Hartsfield brings even more.

I listen to music everyday I have three other audio systems. Are you an audiophile ?



Melvin, more old cars and old stereos, please tell me how this pertains to AR and it's members.

basite
02-05-2008, 09:31 AM
strange, i've seen most pairs go for under $10k...

oh yeah, again you forgot the word inflation.
you also forgot the fact that the hartfields aren't always bought for their sound quality (heck, for 18k, you have to be a complete moron to buy one of them just for sound quality). Most of them are sold for their rarity. Just like the Paragon, which actually doesn't sound that good.

and how can a speaker be 'experience'?

and yes, there are outstanding speakers today. Many of which will sound better than your hartsfield for less than $18k.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 09:34 AM
Does anyone want some coffee? I'm making up a pot.

basite
02-05-2008, 09:35 AM
oh, yeah,

Thanks GM :)

markw
02-05-2008, 09:40 AM
There are outstanding speakers today.But, by your own admission they are not new, therefore obsolete and not up to the standards by which you judge everyone else here.


They are very experience.I certainly hope you know what you're trying to say here. Nobody else does.



Again using the car example. In 1954 Mercedes sold the gull-wing 300SL for about $7500
Today that same car came bring on average from $150,000 to $500,000.That just means people are enthralled with it's mystique. It doesn't make it any more modern of a car. It's nice, but it's still over fifty years old and is outperformed by many newer, more pedestrian cars when using adjusted dollars. Compare it's current worth to a modern car and you'll see that it's performance lags, even to a modern Mercedes.


The Hartsfield speakers are no different , in 1954 a Hartsfield sold for about $800.00 that speaker today sells for about $18,000 to $30,000 depending on the year.Again, that's not a measure of absolute performance. It's an arbitrary figure applied to something that, in ultimate usefulness. is overpriced.


I have the earlier model horn which was changed later to lower cost. That Hartsfield brings even more.Well then, find someone willing to pay your asking price. and upgrade your equipment. Maybe then you can walk it like you talk it.


I listen to music everyday.And, your point being? I'll bet you do and you even hear it when none is actually playing.


I have three other audio systems.And, so? Actually, so do I and most likely many others here can also truthfully make that claim.

And, while you're jumping head-first into the "mine's bigger than yours" category, I don't need artificial stimulants to enjoy a happy marriage. Methinks yours is all in your head, or at least your hand.


Are you an audiophile ?You really don't read the posts here, do you? If you did, you would realize that you're the only one that attaches any sort of importance to that title.

Face it, mel ol' buddy. You're a fraud. We all know it, but we do enjoy kicking you around.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 09:47 AM
so you say the one owning all the exotic audio gears 'just because he can' is more of an audiophile than another person, who owns slightly less exotic gear but actually cares about it, and tries to get the most out of it?

let me give you the example with cars: there are people owning all the rolls royces and ferraris, just because they can afford them, but there are also people looking for a really good car and cannot afford the ferrari or the rolls, they settle with a B&W 5 series, but does that mean they like the car less than the one with the rolls? NO. all it says is that the person with the rolls has more money.

same with audio. most people cannot afford to have all the exotic gears, but does that mean that they don't care about it? and does it mean that the person with the best equipment ever made cares about it? no.

sure equipment has something to do with being an audiophile, and sure an audiophile is always looking for 'the best', which, by the way, hasn't been defined yet. I for example would hate the sound of your JBL's, just because I don't like the JBL sound, and especially not the horn sound.

no.
Being an audiophile involves loving your gears as much as the music. It takes care, time, and love.

you can be an audiophile if you haven't upgraded your equipment for the past 20 years. Because there is always something you can improve in your system without having to upgrade. Also, there is always better, it just never ends, so following your definition (well, not yours, but one from some big guide to things that aren't even defined, and can't be defined), no one on this entire planet is an audiophile.

that said, evaluate my system as much as you want, and say whatever you want, but all I know is that I love my system, I care about it, just as I love the music. That, In my opinion, makes me and other people an audiophile.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

You love music and you also enjoy your audio system. An audiophile does not necessarily love music ,an audiophile loves music equipment. He spends most of his time changing speakers , amps , cartridges etc. An audiophile is never happy with his system.
I was an audiophile and had several friends who were audiophiles. No one was satisfied with their system. I have been in several car clubs and why do you think they keep improving on high end cars ? First it is 200hp , 300hp, 380hp, 400hp , 500hp, now it is all
the way up to 600hp. Is that enough NO !

I have had in my main system three pairs of speakers , three power amps , three preamps , five tone arms , four TT , three tuners , six cartridges and two tape recorders.
I have audiophiles friends who have made many more changes.
Much like the car hobbyist I was never happy. I have made changes on the Hartsfield ,
When JBL included the 075 tweeter and a Separate crossover to extend the high end.
I was not satisfied with the 075 and replaced it with the 175 DLH.

No you are not an audiophile , you haven's spent enough money ! You haven't made enough changes. I haven't been an audiophile for 30 years.
I moved on to other hobbies. I enjoy discussing hi-fi as I did when I was an audiophile.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 09:51 AM
But, by your own admission they are not new, therefore obsolete and not up to the standards by which you judge everyone else here.

I certainly hope you know what you're trying to say here. Nobody else does.


That just means people are enthralled with it's mystique. It doesn't make it any more modern of a car. It's nice, but it's still over fifty years old and is outperformed by many newer, more pedestrian cars when using adjusted dollars. Compare it's current worth to a modern car and you'll see that it's performance lags, even to a modern Mercedes.

Again, that's not a measure of absolute performance. It's an arbitrary figure applied to something that, in ultimate usefulness. is overpriced.

Well then, find someone willing to pay your asking price. and upgrade your equipment. Maybe then you can walk it like you talk it.

And, your point being? I'll bet you do and you even hear it when none is actually playing.

And, so? Actually, so do I and most likely many others here can also truthfully make that claim.

And, while you're jumping head-first into the "mine's bigger than yours" category, I don't need artificial stimulants to enjoy a happy marriage. Methinks yours is all in your head, or at least your hand.

You really don't read the posts here, do you? If you did, you would realize that you're the only one that attaches any sort of importance to that title.

Face it, mel ol' buddy. You're a fraud. We all know it, but we do enjoy kicking you around.

Make some changes , you can do better than that audio system you have !
But than you are not an audiophile.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 09:57 AM
And so it goes. Speaking of stuck records I see Melvin is still with us. Melvin you have not evaluated my system yet.

An excellent audio system. Are you happy with it ?

GMichael
02-05-2008, 09:58 AM
oh, yeah,

Thanks GM :)

Kona coming right up. I made one of those lemon tarts that Bernd gave us the recipe for. Like a slice?

noddin0ff
02-05-2008, 10:01 AM
Are you hiding behind the fact that your audio system is low cost high-fi !

Nope. I just thought it was 'Stupid Question Day' and jumped right in. I'm not arrogant enough to assume the mantle of audiophile.

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 10:10 AM
An excellent audio system. Are you happy with it ?



I enjoy it immensely. Currently I am listening to one of the LSO Live recordings. This one is Beethoven Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" and Bernard Haitink conducting.

By the way Melvin I do not retaliate if someone does not like me or my system. I can easily seperate my personal feelings from the job of moderator. Or at least seperate my feelings from my actions as a moderator.

Ajani
02-05-2008, 10:35 AM
........... An audiophile does not necessarily love music ,an audiophile loves music equipment. He spends most of his time changing speakers , amps , cartridges etc. An audiophile is never happy with his system.......

The sad part is that this definition is probably the most correct one... Audiophilia is essentially a mental condition, a constant state of disatisfaction with one's audio equipment... not about enjoying the music...

One thing I give Melvin credit for.... he's killed any desire I might ever have of becoming an Audiophile....

I'm much happier just being an Audio Enthusiast.....

basite
02-05-2008, 10:35 AM
Kona coming right up. I made one of those lemon tarts that Bernd gave us the recipe for. Like a slice?


oh, yes, certainly sir...


thank you very much :)

markw
02-05-2008, 10:36 AM
Make some changes , you can do better than that audio system you have !Why? To please you? Pffttttt!

I'm perfectly content with what I currently have.

Perhaps a you can do better and improve your lonely, miserable life to a point where you aren't concerned with us? ..or at least end it.

Get used to it, old man. If you really think you're "hurting our feelings" by this audiophile nonsense, know this. We've got enough self-confidence in ourselves and out judgment to realize that you're essentially trying to knock down the walls of Jericho by spitting at it.

You're just making some of us rethink our positions on euthanasia.


But than you are not an audiophile.Actually, you mean "but THEN...".

Are you under the impression you're insulting me when you say that? Get this old man... I never claimed to be. You're the one that's crying the blues (or classical, jazz or rock, whatever) because, by your own definition, you're not an audiophile, not us. We're just laughing at your contortions to deny admitting it to yourself, that's all.

(I see you've learned to kiss up to the moderators, eh?)

basite
02-05-2008, 10:41 AM
No you are not an audiophile , you haven's spent enough money ! You haven't made enough changes. I haven't been an audiophile for 30 years.
I moved on to other hobbies. I enjoy discussing hi-fi as I did when I was an audiophile.


who are you to tell that.

and do you think 12.000 isn't enough yet? I'm 17 for **** sake, do you think I just won a lottery or so?

let me give you a quick currency conversion, 12000 is 17 781.6 US$ For a 17 year old kid. I'm not even allowed to drive a car yet!


think that isn't enough yet?

I've went through 4 amps, 3 sets of speakers, 2 turntables, lots of cables 3 cartridges, got a cd player, and much more. In 1,5 years. Do you think I haven't upgraded enough?

this year alone I went from a 450 denon to a 4500 Mcintosh, I went from a pc to a decent CD player, I went from stacked advents to 5000 Thiels. IN ONE YEAR.

isn't that enough yet?

And by your stolen definition, I'm not an audiophile. By my own, and many others opinions, I am.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 10:44 AM
I enjoy it immensely. Currently I am listening to one of the LSO Live recordings. This one is Beethoven Symphony No. 3 "Eroica" and Bernard Haitink conducting.

By the way Melvin I do not retaliate if someone does not like me or my system. I can easily seperate my personal feelings from the job of moderator. Or at least seperate my feelings from my actions as a moderator.

I enjoy discussing audio. I asked the question are you happy ? If you are happy with your audio system than you are not an audiophile .
Audiophile don't listen to music they listen to equipment and are very rarely happy with their equipment.
You have excellent musical taste.
I have several recording of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. Eroica is my favorite Beethoven.,
alone with his 9th. All of my Beethoven's are on Lp.

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 10:54 AM
I enjoy discussing audio. I asked the question are you happy ? If you are happy with your audio system than you are not an audiophile .
Audiophile don't listen to music they listen to equipment and are very rarely happy with their equipment.
You have excellent musical taste.
I have several recording of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. Eroica is my favorite Beethoven.,
alone with his 9th. All of my Beethoven's are on Lp.




Maybe I am an audiophile since all my equipment excepting the turntable are only months old. Now if I am still happy a year from now then maybe I am not an audiophile.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 10:54 AM
who are you to tell that.

and do you think 12.000 isn't enough yet? I'm 17 for **** sake, do you think I just won a lottery or so?

let me give you a quick currency conversion, 12000 is 17 781.6 US$ For a 17 year old kid. I'm not even allowed to drive a car yet!


think that isn't enough yet?

I've went through 4 amps, 3 sets of speakers, 2 turntables, lots of cables 3 cartridges, got a cd player, and much more. In 1,5 years. Do you think I haven't upgraded enough?

this year alone I went from a 450 denon to a 4500 Mcintosh, I went from a pc to a decent CD player, I went from stacked advents to 5000 Thiels. IN ONE YEAR.

isn't that enough yet?

And by your stolen definition, I'm not an audiophile. By my own, and many others opinions, I am.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.
You have a right to your opinion. Your age is not an issue. If you are making all those changes than I withdraw my earlier assessment , you are an audiophile . For anyone to spend $17,000 in one year is excellent. What are you going to spend next year ?
You need more upgrades, an audiophile is constanly upgrading. It's a hobby.
No it is not enough.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 10:59 AM
Does anyone want some coffee? I'm making up a pot.
DAMMIT! I just got back from the cafeteria with a cup of Starbucks. :incazzato:

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 10:59 AM
Why? To please you? Pffttttt!

I'm perfectly content with what I currently have.

Perhaps a you can do better and improve your lonely, miserable life to a point where you aren't concerned with us? ..or at least end it.

Get used to it, old man. If you really think you're "hurting our feelings" by this audiophile nonsense, know this. We've got enough self-confidence in ourselves and out judgment to realize that you're essentially trying to knock down the walls of Jericho by spitting at it.

You're just making some of us rethink our positions on euthanasia.

Actually, you mean "but THEN...".

Are you under the impression you're insulting me when you say that? Get this old man... I never claimed to be. You're the one that's crying the blues (or classical, jazz or rock, whatever) because, by your own definition, you're not an audiophile, not us. We're just laughing at your contortions to deny admitting it to yourself, that's all.

(I see you've learned to kiss up to the moderators, eh?)

I know a man who just purchased a new Honda and he is happy. If he is happy I am overjoyed. He is not a car person, no car person would buy a Honda. I hope you get my point , how ever old you are.

basite
02-05-2008, 11:02 AM
I enjoy discussing audio. I asked the question are you happy ? If you are happy with your audio system than you are not an audiophile .
Audiophile don't listen to music they listen to equipment and are very rarely happy with their equipment.
You have excellent musical taste.
I have several recording of Beethoven's 3rd Symphony. Eroica is my favorite Beethoven.,
alone with his 9th. All of my Beethoven's are on Lp.


then where's the fun?

you buy a car to enjoy it.

You buy audio equipment to enjoy it.

agreed, you'll want good audio equipment. but if no audiophile enjoyed his/her system, then what would it be like?

There are very few things better than coming home from a busy day and just dropping yourself in your chair, putting on some music and enjoying it.

I enjoy the music. I enjoy my gears, I enjoy looking at them, hearing them and even touching them. but according to you I'm not an audiophile because I like music?

Then what do you do? Listen to friggin test tones all day long, just to see your already dried out caps in your equipment aren't gone completely yet?

maybe it's time to analyse the word 'audiophile'.

it actually comes from latin. Audio philia. Which stands for 'friend of audio'. Audio, audio is often defined as 'hearable sound'. So, literally seen, an audiophile enjoys hearable sound. The hearable sound is sometimes also defined as 'sound between 20hz and 20khz, for humans'. our definition then becomes 'an audiophile enjoys sounds between 20hz and 20khz, the hearable frequencies for the human kind.

Then, to achieve to listen to these frequencies, one needs good audio equipment (Gears). but litteraly seen, it doesn't even mention the word gears. logically seen it says you need good equipment (audiophile grade, but this refferation is often misused, so I'll just name it 'good equipment'), but you don't nessecarily have to enjoy them.

This, is just another faulty (although somehow correct too) definition of 'what is an audiophile'. Just to prove your definition, stolen from some book made in the 50's is wrong too.

One cannot define what an audiophile is, but you certainly seem to take it too litteraly.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 11:04 AM
I'm sorry but I have to speak out.

I have been on this site for several years now and I have learned what "I thought" was a lot of helpful and useful information from who "I thought" were knowledgeable members of these forums.

Melvin has shown me the light. I now know you crackheads don't know what the hell your talking about. Your equipment sucks and to be honest, I think you guys are way too stuck on trying to take advantage of the current technology in audio and video. We all, well Melvin and I know, the best in audio is from 40 to 60 years ago. Consumer reports even says, I mean said, it was so back then. Who am I and who the heck are you guys to question consumer reports and quite frankly, Melvin? We need to embrace our elderly and learn from them. Even if they have a mild case of MadCow. I'm just glad Shady Days Assisted Living has free wi-fi so Melvin can impart his knowledge upon us.

So to all your dumbarse, inexperienced, know-nothings.......................Screw You! You have wasted the last, um, 5 years of my audio/video life? I tried to put together and very modest system that sounded good. I am not a Audio or HT enthusiast but rather would like a decent system to watch movies and listen to music. That's all I have ever wanted and you took advantage of me by spouting off what I thought was valid information. Who knew you guys were really just idiots living in the present. I feel so ashamed.

I must take a step back at this time and decide if I can still allow myself to be a part of this "sham" of a forum. That or wait until Melvin starts his own like SVI did. I have really learned alot about Dinosours over the past year as well.

Ashame-ed-ly...........JSE
blah blah blah blah blah blah blaaaaah! You weren't even alive back then Bonehead!!! And if you were (and speaking of nipples) you were probably sucking Shinner through a nipple stretched over the bottle. :rolleyes:

Get real. Freakin' Southerners. :rolleyes:

basite
02-05-2008, 11:12 AM
You have a right to your opinion. Your age is not an issue. If you are making all those changes than I withdraw my earlier assessment , you are an audiophile . For anyone to spend $17,000 in one year is excellent. What are you going to spend next year ?
You need more upgrades, an audiophile is constanly upgrading. It's a hobby.
No it is not enough.

and suddenly I am an audiophile...


I've bought my gears secondhand, so I spent less (still much) than $17k. The total system worth (retail) is $17k. this year will probably bring new gear too, maybe a projector + projection screen, and build a HT around that, or a DAC, and maybe a new TT too, and I'm spending money on cables now.

there is a limit though. I can see myself spend $500 on a cable (I need very short runs, both for interconnects and speakercables, so It is pretty much), maybe even $1000 if it's worth it. Problem is that there are many cables costing much more than that, I can't see myself spending that kind of money on a cable anymore. Then how do I 'upgrade'? If I have a $1000 cable, then why bother buying another cable that is equally good? Just to have something else?

I believe that is more supporting the economy rather than upgrading your system.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 11:22 AM
and suddenly I am an audiophile...


I've bought my gears secondhand, so I spent less (still much) than $17k. The total system worth (retail) is $17k. this year will probably bring new gear too, maybe a projector + projection screen, and build a HT around that, or a DAC, and maybe a new TT too, and I'm spending money on cables now.

there is a limit though. I can see myself spend $500 on a cable (I need very short runs, both for interconnects and speakercables, so It is pretty much), maybe even $1000 if it's worth it. Problem is that there are many cables costing much more than that, I can't see myself spending that kind of money on a cable anymore. Then how do I 'upgrade'? If I have a $1000 cable, then why bother buying another cable that is equally good? Just to have something else?

I believe that is more supporting the economy rather than upgrading your system.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

An excellent idea buying audio used , I hope there are good deals in Belgium. Are you buying locally are on Ebay ?
Forget about the cables buy audio equipment. Cables will not make that much of a difference in the quality of sound.
Speakers are the most important , followed by amps.

audio amateur
02-05-2008, 11:28 AM
80 replies in the same day... I'm impressed. You should be proud of yourself Mr. Walker;)

basite
02-05-2008, 11:33 AM
An excellent idea buying audio used , I hope there are good deals in Belgium. Are you buying locally are on Ebay ?
Forget about the cables buy audio equipment. Cables will not make that much of a difference in the quality of sound.
Speakers are the most important , followed by amps.


I found the cables to make a big difference.

Stepping up from the Kimber PBJ to the Siltech MXT new york made a huge difference.
soundstage got much wider and more natural, imaging is exellent, sound has more body and is more detailed as before. It feels the system has 'grown' somehow by changing the cables.


I tried several other cables too, all gave a different sound. When I say try, I mean on loan from my dealer. He, for one, is one of the few remaining hifi dealers that actually knows all the gears he has, and were made. both the 'salespersons', are audiophiles according to my definition.

I don't buy on Ebay, I tried to get a tt there (a thorens TD160), but always got outbid.
Luckily, my dealer has a big 'stock' of secondhand gears too. I bought all the secondhand gears there (in fact, my entire system came from that dealer). He gives price reductions on most gears, including the second hand gear, and has exellent service. (I have 2 years warranty on my speakers, which I got from the dealer.)

Buying used is usually a good thing. I wouldn't buy secondhand digital things though, since the technology improves fast, so when you buy a secondhand cd player or so, sound quality is most likely to be not as good as a similary priced new unit.

Right now, Strawinsky's 'le sacre du printemps - apollo' is playing, and with the kimber, it began to sound harsh and grainy, also really thin and uncontrolled, especially on more busy parts. With the siltech, the sound got more body and the busier parts have more defenition, as well as the other parts. There are several parts where there is a group of cellos/contrabasses playing, and with the kimber PBJ's they sounded like one big 'thing', generating a boomier, undefined sound. The siltech gave defenition, and actually made 'the big thing' sound like a group of cellos/contrabasses.

I agree that speakers have a larger influence on sound, just like amps. But cables certainly add their part too, albeit more 'subtle', but still making a big difference overall.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 11:35 AM
then where's the fun?

you buy a car to enjoy it.

You buy audio equipment to enjoy it.

agreed, you'll want good audio equipment. but if no audiophile enjoyed his/her system, then what would it be like?

There are very few things better than coming home from a busy day and just dropping yourself in your chair, putting on some music and enjoying it.

I enjoy the music. I enjoy my gears, I enjoy looking at them, hearing them and even touching them. but according to you I'm not an audiophile because I like music?

Then what do you do? Listen to friggin test tones all day long, just to see your already dried out caps in your equipment aren't gone completely yet?

maybe it's time to analyse the word 'audiophile'.

it actually comes from latin. Audio philia. Which stands for 'friend of audio'. Audio, audio is often defined as 'hearable sound'. So, literally seen, an audiophile enjoys hearable sound. The hearable sound is sometimes also defined as 'sound between 20hz and 20khz, for humans'. our definition then becomes 'an audiophile enjoys sounds between 20hz and 20khz, the hearable frequencies for the human kind.

Then, to achieve to listen to these frequencies, one needs good audio equipment (Gears). but litteraly seen, it doesn't even mention the word gears. logically seen it says you need good equipment (audiophile grade, but this refferation is often misused, so I'll just name it 'good equipment'), but you don't nessecarily have to enjoy them.

This, is just another faulty (although somehow correct too) definition of 'what is an audiophile'. Just to prove your definition, stolen from some book made in the 50's is wrong too.

One cannot define what an audiophile is, but you certainly seem to take it too litteraly.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Enjoy , than you are not a hobbyist. I remember one sunny afternoon I was enjoying an E-type Jag roaster , than alone came a BMW 2800CS. after he had almost destroyed that Jag , I went home with my tail between my legs and called the local Porsche dealer.
Got 'em. Now I was happy again , so I thought.
Than there was the newer Porsche , more power , than a Mercedes 500 , more room and now a 12 cylinder BMW , now underpowered.

What's next ? depends on the money. Books printed in the 1950's I wonder when the bible was printed ? Do you read the classics's? I am sorry you don't read.
Please forgive me.

SlumpBuster
02-05-2008, 11:48 AM
An excellent audio system. Are you happy with it ?

That is Melvin referring to JM's system.

I'm going to attempt to say something that is actually germaine to audio. I love JM's system, granted I've never heard it. But let me tell you why I like it, something Melvin did not do.

JMs system includes the MoFi speakers and the Onkyo integrated. Two selections that wouldn't even get you past the coatcheck of certain "audiophile" circles. Very few of us are on unlimited budgets. Accordingly we seek compromises and bang for the buck solutions.

For example, that Parasound amp gets alot of play by alot of poeple as a great audio bargain. I love my vintage Yammie M series amp as another great audio bargain. Bill Bailey (Feanor) takes the cake with the sexy Monarch amps.

JM's system has synergy and doesn't fall prey to convential (read: bandwagon) wisdom. The MoFi and Onkyo are great finds by JM, put together with a great front end. It is not yet another Yammie/Paradigm system (like mine), or even Manley/Theil system. It is a system that shows a dedication to listening and a good ear, the gear follows.

basite
02-05-2008, 11:49 AM
What's next ? depends on the money. Books printed in the 1950's I wonder when the bible was printed ? Do you read the classics's? I am sorry you don't read.
Please forgive me.


I read, I also read hifi magazines like Stereophile, and TAS, but I don't always perceive what they write as 'right', just because someone wrote something in a book (the definition of what is an audiophile, for example), doesn't nessecarily mean this is true. It's just another opinion.

the bible was probably just an opinion too, it has never been proven and probably never will.

The bible was first spoken btw, then writtten, probably completely different from what was said in the first place, and since then, everything has been changed. They've printed it since they could, also, probably with a completely different contents as originally spoken.

I don't exactly know what you mean with 'classics', I read what I like, and what I don't like I don't read. I don't read things like 'the one and only guide to audiophilia', because all it contains is just another opinion, which I probably won't agree with. Guides to reaching something is almost always personal. Perceiving those books as the one and only truth is giving up that part of your own personality, and replacing it with someone else's. If that really happened, and you'd take it to the extreme, you'd be ending with Karl Marx's theory.

But sure, I definately read, where else do you think I've gotten my English skills? I could speak and read English before we even got it at school. I read books. I read the internet, I listen to the radio and watch television.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

basite
02-05-2008, 11:58 AM
Enjoy , than you are not a hobbyist. I remember one sunny afternoon I was enjoying an E-type Jag roaster , than alone came a BMW 2800CS. after he had almost destroyed that Jag , I went home with my tail between my legs and called the local Porsche dealer.
Got 'em. Now I was happy again , so I thought.
Than there was the newer Porsche , more power , than a Mercedes 500 , more room and now a 12 cylinder BMW , now underpowered.


yes, I agree that there is always more and better.

But the moment you were driving the jag. You enjoyed it. Why? because you hadn't driven the BMW yet. You also enjoyed driving the BMW, and you liked it better than the jag. and you want to try more and better. But that does not mean you didn't like the cars when you first drove them.

I wouldn't buy something expensive if I wouldn't enjoy it. If the rolls royce was the only car I could enjoy, then I'd save for the rolls, and skip the rest.

Just like I did now. I could have settled with a rotel poweramp, or a parasound, or a NAD, I could have. But I liked the Mcintosh more, and I knew it would be much better and it'd be hard to find better given the budget. I bought the Mcintosh, and I enjoy it. I know there are better Mcintoshes, and other better gears, but I cannot afford them yet, If I can, and I feel the need for 'better', I will upgrade again.

Point is that you enjoy something you have too. If you've kept the jag, and you would never have driven something else, you will enjoy the jag.

I enjoy my mcintosh (duh, name 2 other kids with a Mcintosh...), I enjoy my thiels too, I know that there is better, and I crave for better. But I am 'happy'.

I should be proud of what I have, and you should be too, just like everyone else.

With my system I have achieved things many people wouldn't achieve before they're 40 or so. And I know that there is better, and I want better, but I am happy now too.

As I've said before, there is always better. the possibility to upgrade will always be there, it's up to you to draw the line until where you want to go.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

topspeed
02-05-2008, 12:08 PM
Could be but the one known ramification was the new breed of female dinasour called the "Licalotaopous".
Great.

Now I have to get the Vitamin Water off my screen and keyboard.

Thanks. Thanks a bunch, Cartman.


I can't tell you have envious I am of you guys today. I'm completely buried and can't really spend time to enjoy what is clearly the funniest thread in a looooong time.

I'll have to read this whole thing some time later.

Enjoy!

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 12:16 PM
I can't tell you have envious I am of you guys today. I'm completely buried...
Bimmer's in a ditch again huh? :rolleyes:

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 12:48 PM
I can't tell you have envious I am of you guys today. I'm completely buried and can't really spend time to enjoy what is clearly the funniest thread in a looooong time.

I'll have to read this whole thing some time later.

Enjoy!

Don't bother. If you can't read it fresh, your not a real "forumphile". Plus, as Mr. Walkers posts "age" they take on that old man scent. Sort of like overripe turnips dipped in aged chedder.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 12:56 PM
Don't bother. If you can't read it fresh, your not a real "forumphile". Plus, as Mr. Walkers posts "age" they take on that old man scent. Sort of like overripe turnips dipped in aged chedder.

Yick!

markw
02-05-2008, 12:58 PM
I know a man who just purchased a new Honda and he is happy. If he is happy I am overjoyed. He is not a car person, no car person would buy a Honda. I hope you get my point , how ever old you are.That would depend on what that "car person" wants, wouldn't it?

If said "car person" wanted a well built, ergonomically designed car that would get good gas mileage, and would be able to avoid repair shops like a snowman avoids the summer, he would most likely opt for that Honda.

But, if he were intent on proving his own importance and was mainly intent on impressing the neighbors and himself, and didn't mind the vehicle spending an inordinate amount of time in the shop, then he might opt for an overpriced showcase. (Pssst.... I had a Jag... once)

And, when one considers he 's not capable of driving it to it's fullest extent, that makes the purchase seem a bit more bizarre, no? That's kinda like that old geezer marrying Anna Nichole Smith, isn't it? I mean, he may get pleasure out of looking at it, maybe fondling it, and perhaps some pride in ownership, but you know he's not gonna be driving it.

Kinda like you and those fine speakers, eh? Where's your hearing stop nowadays? 8, maybe 10 kilocycles?

But, ultimately, when it comes to preforming the function for which these machines were designed, the Honda bows to no-one.

The difference between impressive and expensive are two different things entirely and a real "car person" (or audio enthusiast) knows how to discern the difference.

emaidel
02-05-2008, 01:57 PM
Well, I see it's "fun and games times with Melvin" again, so I might as well add my own two cents.

My system, as I've posted previously, consists of:

Dahlquist DQ-10's (with newly rebuilt woofers by Regnar)
Definitive Technology SP-15F subwoofer
Adcom GFA-5800 amp (a Nelson Pass design)
Parasound PLD-1100 preamp (a John Curl design)
Adcom GCD-600 changer
Adcom GDA-600 D/A converter
Onkyo TA-6510 cassette deck
Akai GX-600DB reel to reel (with Dolby B noise reduction)
dbx 224s noise reduction unit (connected to both decks)
Parasound TQ-1600 tuner
Dual CS-5000 turntable
Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 Cartridge
Audio cables from Monster (Z-Series speaker cables, and digital coax), Audioquest (preamp to main amp) and Kimber silver (D/A converter to preamp) and a few other lesser known, German-manufactured high-end cables.

According to Melvin, I can't possibly be an audiophile because the only item on this list that could qualify is the Akai reel to reel, which I purchased in 1974 (it works, but not too well). Everything else, including the Dahlquists, is just too new, but he may give me extra credit for them since they were purchased in 1977 - only 2 years after his audiophile deadline.

Others have stated I'm an audiophile because I like to listen to both my system, and good music, and sought equipment based on design paramaters established by known people in the industry. That doesn't count, either. Nothing's improved since the Marantz 7C tube preamp, and his Model 9 mono amps. Never. Ever.

I'm retired and on a fixed income. I'm far from destitute, but coming by around $3k or so for a new turntable, for example, will be a lot harder now than it was years ago. So, again, I can't possibly be an audiophile, because I won't be changing my equipment again and again because the newer stuff is too "experience."

I also prefer the sound of CD's to LP's (Good God!!), especially when listening to classical music, which is my favorite kind (though I have an extensive collection of "popular" music as well). I've never heard an LP generate the expanse and depth of a large symphony orchestra and chorus, as well as the throaty sound of the brass as do many Telarc discs, and I marvel at how good most of them are. Christof Dohnanyi's rendition of Beethoven's 9th on Telarc, with the Cleveland Orchestra and Chorus is my favorite - I've got four other CD's of the 9th, as well as a couple of LP's, but none match the performance and sound of Dohnanyi's version. I think Simon Rattle has a better handle on Beethoven than most conductors, both old and new, but the sound on his EMI discs is too harsh and unpleasant for my tastes. That also disqualifies me as an audiophile, since CD's only got started in this industry in 1983 - 8 years past the "deadline."

And, even though my turntable was manufactured around 1987, it's also too new to be any good, and the Collector's Series CS-100 cartridge I'm using is a moving magnet design - just not acceptable by any audiophile.

So, I guess I'll just have to go check out my neighbor's old Magnavox console. Maybe that's audiophile stuff - it's certainly old enough!

And, I believe the drink's name is "Buttery Nipple." It consists of equal parts Bailey's Irish Creme and Butterscotch Scnopps. Very tasty!

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 01:59 PM
That would depend on what that "car person wants, wouldn't it?

If said "car person" wanted a well built, ergonomically designed car that would get good gas mileage, and would be able to avoid repair shops like a snowman avoids the summer, he would most likely opt for that Honda.

but, if he were intent on proving his own importance and was mainly intent on impressing the neighbors and himself, and didn't mind the vehicle spending an inordinate amount of time in the shop, then he might opt for an overpriced showcase. (Pssst.... I had a Jag... once)

And, when one considers he 's not capable of driving it to it's fullest extent, that makes the purchase seem a bit more bizarre, no? That's kinds like that old geezer marrying Anna Nichole Smith, isn't it?

But, ultimately, when it comes to preforming the function for which these machines were designed, the Honda would bow to no-one.

The difference between impressive and expensive are two different things entirely and a real "car person" knows how to discern the difference.

There ia a car dealer in St. Louis that has a slogan we sell want ,not need. A man who buys a Honda needs a car. The man who buys a Mercedes SL500 wants a car.. There is a difference.
As for as driving a car to it's fullest , there is no need , when there is nothing to prove. A friend of mine had just bought a Ferrari Testarossa , as we were driving down the highway alone came two young men in a Corvette, they raced their motor, made faces , but he ignored them. What was there to prove ? A Corvette , a Testarossa.

One Hartsfield can feel a stadium with sound , in a large living room , one can produce standing waves. Why ? The same with a Ferrari. Why ?

One buys a Ferrari for two reasons in my opinion , one because others can't afford it and two because it is one of the finest sports cars in the world. The same with a Patek Philippe watch or a $100,000 audio system.
These people buy want not need. An item can be both impressive and expensive.

As for as Anna Nichole Smith is concern , the old fellow married her for the same reason he bought the Ferrari , most can't afford her and whoever she is , she must be beautiful.
The old fellow is both a car person and a women person.

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 02:09 PM
As for as Anna Nichole Smith is concern , the old fellow married her for the same reason he bought the Ferrari , most can't afford her and whoever she is , she must be beautiful.
The old fellow is both a car person and a women person.

Mr. Walker, are you blind? I'm not being insulting, in this instance, in this thread, right now, I'm very curious. It would explain quite a bit, the odd sentence structure, the weird verbiage, and the strange non sequiters you throw out.

If you are, I am actually feeling a bit down for you.

The reason I ask, is that Anna Nichole Smith passed away last year of a drug overdose. It would appear that you are somewhat behind in the news, and I was taken by suprise with your last question.

She was rather pretty, but had a penchent for drugs, both legal and illegal. She was highlighted in Playboy many times. Although a bit top heavy for my taste, she was attractive in her early career. Towards the end, she was a bit of a train wreck.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 02:20 PM
The old fellow is both a car person and a women person.
And dead.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 02:32 PM
Well, I see it's "fun and games times with Melvin" again, so I might as well add my own two cents.

My system, as I've posted previously, consists of:

Dahlquist DQ-10's (with newly rebuilt woofers by Regnar)
Definitive Technology SP-15F subwoofer
Adcom GFA-5800 amp (a Nelson Pass design)
Parasound PLD-1100 preamp (a John Curl design)
Adcom GCD-600 changer
Adcom GDA-600 D/A converter
Onkyo TA-6510 cassette deck
Akai GX-600DB reel to reel (with Dolby B noise reduction)
dbx 224s noise reduction unit (connected to both decks)
Parasound TQ-1600 tuner
Dual CS-5000 turntable
Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 Cartridge
Audio cables from Monster (Z-Series speaker cables, and digital coax), Audioquest (preamp to main amp) and Kimber silver (D/A converter to preamp) and a few other lesser known, German-manufactured high-end cables.

According to Melvin, I can't possibly be an audiophile because the only item on this list that could qualify is the Akai reel to reel, which I purchased in 1974 (it works, but not too well). Everything else, including the Dahlquists, is just too new, but he may give me extra credit for them since they were purchased in 1977 - only 2 years after his audiophile deadline.

Others have stated I'm an audiophile because I like to listen to both my system, and good music, and sought equipment based on design paramaters established by known people in the industry. That doesn't count, either. Nothing's improved since the Marantz 7C tube preamp, and his Model 9 mono amps. Never. Ever.

I'm retired and on a fixed income. I'm far from destitute, but coming by around $3k or so for a new turntable, for example, will be a lot harder now than it was years ago. So, again, I can't possibly be an audiophile, because I won't be changing my equipment again and again because the newer stuff is too "experience."

I also prefer the sound of CD's to LP's (Good God!!), especially when listening to classical music, which is my favorite kind (though I have an extensive collection of "popular" music as well). I've never heard an LP generate the expanse and depth of a large symphony orchestra and chorus, as well as the throaty sound of the brass as do many Telarc discs, and I marvel at how good most of them are. Christof Dpjmamyi's rendition of Beethoven's 9th on Telarc, with the Cleveland Orchestra and Chorus is my favorite - I've got four other CD's of the 9th, as well as a couple of LP's, but none match the performance and sound of Dohnanyi's version. I think Simon Rattle has a better handle on Beethoven than most conductors, both old and new, but the sound on his EMI discs is too harsh and unpleasant for my tastes. That also disqualifies me as an audiophile, since CD's only got started in this industry in 1983 - 8 years past the "deadline."

And, even though my turntable was manufactured around 1987, it's also too new to be any good, and the Collector's Series CS-100 cartridge I'm using is a moving magnet design - just not acceptable by any audiophile.

So, I guess I'll just have to go check out my neighbor's old Magnavox console. Maybe that's audiophile stuff - it's certainly old enough!

And, I believe the drink's name is "Buttery Nipple." It consists of equal parts Bailey's Irish Creme and Butterscotch Scnopps. Very tasty!

Most of your system is inconsistant. Not very expensive by today's standards. Parasound builds a better preamp. Your speakers Dahlquist DO10's were medium priced speakers in their day. Why not Audio Research preamp are Conrad Johnson ? New.
Maybe Mark Levinson power amps, Cary Martin power amps, new. If you must have a cassette deck , you can do better than that. Your tape recorder is a dog ! Your Turntabe
lets say cheap , how about a Linn Sondek , if you have the cash there's Micro Seiki $30,000 or a SME for $22,000. New.

But you said you were on a fixed income , I understand. I should add a LP would sound terrible on that system , no definition LP's are more detailed , CD's have greater dynamics. You wouldn't know judging by that mid priced audio system you own.
The young man from Belgium will pass you by in a few years at the rate he is moving.
My opinion.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 02:34 PM
And dead.
We all die, but the old fellow died with a smile on his face !!

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 02:41 PM
Mr. Walker, are you blind? I'm not being insulting, in this instance, in this thread, right now, I'm very curious. It would explain quite a bit, the odd sentence structure, the weird verbiage, and the strange non sequiters you throw out.

If you are, I am actually feeling a bit down for you.

The reason I ask, is that Anna Nichole Smith passed away last year of a drug overdose. It would appear that you are somewhat behind in the news, and I was taken by suprise with your last question.

She was rather pretty, but had a penchent for drugs, both legal and illegal. She was highlighted in Playboy many times. Although a bit top heavy for my taste, she was attractive in her early career. Towards the end, she was a bit of a train wreck.

I have no interest in drug heads. I am more interested in Iraq , health care , the economy ,
Presidential race , the Superbowl , world series , tennis grand slams, world events , etc.
Never heard of her. if she was on the news I would change the channel , get something more interesting.
My opinion.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 02:51 PM
We all die, but the old fellow died with a smile on his face !!
Actually, he a lot of crying. She left him on their wedding night to run off with her body guard. He spent the rest of his days trying to find a way to cut her out of his inheritance.

GMichael
02-05-2008, 02:53 PM
I have no interest in drug heads. I am more interested in Iraq , health care , the economy ,
Presidential race , the Superbowl , world series , tennis grand slams, world events , etc.
Never heard of her. if she was on the news I would change the channel , get something more interesting.
My opinion.

The superbowl? But I thought that football was too low class for you.

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 02:59 PM
I'm not even going to tell him I'm an avid bowler.

emaidel
02-05-2008, 03:00 PM
Most of your system is inconsistant. Not very expensive by today's standards. Parasound builds a better preamp. Your speakers Dahlquist DO10's were medium priced speakers in their day. Why not Audio Research preamp are Conrad Johnson ? New.
Maybe Mark Levinson power amps, Cary Martin power amps, new. If you must have a cassette deck , you can do better than that. Your tape recorder is a dog ! Your Turntabe
lets say cheap , how about a Linn Sondek , if you have the cash there's Micro Seiki $30,000 or a SME for $22,000. New.

But you said you were on a fixed income , I understand. I should add a LP would sound terrible on that system , no definition LP's are more detailed , CD's have greater dynamics. You wouldn't know judging by that mid priced audio system you own.
The young man from Belgium will pass you by in a few years at the rate he is moving.
My opinion.


Well, there you have it, everyone. "God" has spoken. My system is "inconsistant,", my "tape recorder is a dog," and LP's can only "sound terrible on that system." How could I know anyway, "judging by that midpriced audio system I'm soooooo, ashamed!

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 03:01 PM
When a tape recorder is a "dog", does that mean it runs slow or something?

emaidel
02-05-2008, 03:06 PM
Don't ask me, as I'm only a lowly earthling who clearly knows nothing about audio equipment.

Just as a point of interest, the Akai GX-600DB was one of the few, or perhaps the only, reel to reel 10 1/2" machines with built in Dolby noise reduction. When it worked properly (one channel currently is noticeably duller than the other), it was difficult, or impossible to tell the difference between the source or the tape during monitoring. Still, "God" said it's a "dog,'' and so it must be. Sigh......

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Well, there you have it, everyone. "God" has spoken. My system is "inconsistant,", my "tape recorder is a dog," and LP's can only "sound terrible on that system." How could I know anyway, "judging by that midpriced audio system I'm soooooo, ashamed!

Huh, your only "inconsistant". Not much to brag about there big boy. According to Melvin, my system is "Creepy". Perhaps the Guinia Pig threw him off. Shes 3 year old, so in people years shes like 45. Coincidently, the same age as Melvins great-grandson.

O'Shag
02-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Actually guys, there is one thing your wrong about. Melvin does have some really top notch gear. The Hartfields he owns give most high-end speakers a serious run for their money in some respects. If you've never heard the Hartfields you will be surprised at the sheer immediacy and quantity of information in the midrange. They're not perfect though, but they can make music seem alive and engaging the way few can..

The McIntosh 275 (I think thats what Melvin owns) is a honey of an amp, and is very synergistic with the Hartsfields. The Marantz 7c pramp which he owns is a classic -and is noted for a very analogue sound. Don't know what sources he uses. Current world value is always a good indicator of a product's sound capabilities, and here are a few 'guesstimates' on some of Melvin's old crap:
Marantz 7C Preamp: current price ranges from $4,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number
JBL Harstfield - Current price ranges from $9.500 - $25,000 depending on condition and serial number
McIntosh 275 / Original - Current prices range from $3,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number.

Some of you would be very surprised at just how good this stuff sounds. I'd hazard a guess that Melvin's 'old crap' can bring you closer to the music than 90% of the systems in Audio Review. Hard to believe - but true.

By the way, Isn't being an audiophile is just as much about being a gear-head as loving music; I would say it is. Some lean further one way, and others, the other way. I've always loved music. I listen to all types of music. Some would consider my tastes in music pretty bad. While I love Classical, Jazz and Folk; I also love R&B, World music, Techno, New Wave, some punk, and Reggae. I will even jam out to the hardest rock as long as it has a musicality to it that appeals to me. I like natural harmonies and rythms. If a piece of music is a-harmonic, it better resolve itself in a meaningful way not too far into the piece or I will lose interest - thats just me. Some of the modernist classical movement (the weirdo stuff) just lost me - I think much of it it is a mess. I can listen to Bach or Mozart, and immediately switch to Kenny BabyFace Edmonds the Cure, the English Beat, or Ravi Shankaar, They can all sound incredibly musical, good music trancends genre. But I also love my electronics gear - the tweaking, setup design, variations, discussing and sharing with others passionate about science, electronics, and music - its very much a guy thing and nothing to be ashamed of. Right now I'm sitting looking at my KEF Reference 109 - The Maidstone. Theres no music coming from it at present, but I can't help admiring it as a beautiful work of art - in terms of electronics and build. Isn't that also what being an audiophile means?

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 03:09 PM
When a tape recorder is a "dog", does that mean it runs slow or something?

Boy, you are dense. The man said it was a dog. He means it is a dog. You need to get a book on reading. Read more.

Freakin' illiterate!

audio amateur
02-05-2008, 03:18 PM
I'm an audiophile. But no equipment:ihih:

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 03:23 PM
Here ya go emaidel:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n286/rich3fan/Home%20Theater%20photos/AkaiM9photo2.jpg

No Dolby NR, but "The original Crossfield Recording Heads". I've considered on occasion getting it refurbished (yes, the left channel was fading); I even found a site that would do the work, but others things took priority.

The Crossfield 4 track heads:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n286/rich3fan/Home%20Theater%20photos/AkaiM9Crossfield.jpg

markw
02-05-2008, 03:25 PM
There ia a car dealer in St. Louis that has a slogan we sell want ,not need.If so, he would be out of business. He sells what he needs to sell to make a profit.

A man who buys a Honda needs a car. The man who buys a Mercedes SL500 wants a car.. There is a difference.[/quptye]Yes. the man who buys Honda wants a Honda. MA man buys a Mercedes to impress his friends because he lacks the self-confidence to buy the plain but superior machine.


As for as driving a car to it's fullest , there is no need , when there is nothing to prove. A friend of mine had just bought a Ferrari Testarossa , as we were driving down the highway alone came two young men in a Corvette, they raced their motor, made faces , but he ignored them. What was there to prove ? A Corvette , a Testarossa.What's there to prove? Obviously nothing. He was afraid t hey would be able to handle their "inferior" car better than yourfrield could handle his. Your friend was apparently satisfied believing that simply throwing down money makes him a superior person.

It's not the tool that does a good job, it's the workman. It would have been interesting to see who was really the better driver. Two shallow people in an expensive car outto impress themselves.


One Hartsfield can feel a stadium with sound , in a large living room , one can produce standing waves. Why ?The same can be said about any large PA speaker. What's your point?


The same with a Ferrari. Why ?[//quote]That's what I'm asking you but you're not getting it.

[QUOTE=melvin walker]One buys a Ferrari for two reasons in my opinion , one because others can't afford it and two because it is one of the finest sports cars in the world. The same with a Patek Philippe watch or a $100,000 audio system.
These people buy want not need. An item can be both impressive and expensive. And most are in the hands of people with too much money and not enough common sense to use them for their intended purpose. They just wantto look at them.

A lot of gangsta rap stars would fit right into your circle. They can buy and sell your tys but does that make them better than you? Well, in this case, I'd have to say yes.


As for as Anna Nichole Smith is concern , the old fellow married her for the same reason he bought the Ferrari , most can't afford her and whoever she is , she must be beautiful.
The old fellow is both a car person and a women person.You make marrying a whore sound acceptable. Is that how your circle lives?

That explains a lot of your anger, old boy. Dunno about cars, but you can bet your bippy that if you have a pretty young wife who married you just for your money, and you can't give her what she needs (and it ain't all about $$, old man) someone else is gonna be driving her when you're not around, or sleeping.

Ajani
02-05-2008, 03:26 PM
Actually guys, there is one thing your wrong about. Melvin does have some really top notch gear. The Hartfields he owns give most high-end speakers a serious run for their money in some respects. If you've never heard the Hartfields you will be surprised at the sheer immediacy and quantity of information in the midrange. They're not perfect though, but they can make music seem alive and engaging the way few can..

The McIntosh 275 (I think thats what Melvin owns) is a honey of an amp, and is very synergistic with the Hartsfields. The Marantz 7c pramp which he owns is a classic -and is noted for a very analogue sound. Don't know what sources he uses. Current world value is always a good indicator of a products sound capabilities, and here are a few guesstimates on some of Melvin's old crap:
Marantz 7C Preamp: current price ranges from $4,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number
JBL Harstfield - Current price ranges from $9.500 - $25,000 depending on condition and serial number
McIntosh 275 / Original - Current prices range from $3,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number.

Some of you would be very surprised at just how good this stuff sounds. I'd hazard a guess that Melvin's 'old crap' sounds way better than 90% of the systems in Audio Review. Hard to believe - but true.

By the way, being an audiophile is just as much about being a gear-head as loving music. Some lean further one way, and others, the other way. I've always loved music. I listen to all types of music. Some would consider my tastes in music pretty bad. While I love Classical, Jazz and Folk; I also love R&B, World music, Techno, New Wave, some punk, and Reggae. I will even jam out to the hardest rock as long as it has a musicality to it that appeals to me. I like natural harmonies and rythms. If a piece of music is a-harmonic, it better resolve itself in a meaningful way not too far into the piece or I will lose interest - thats just me. Some of the modernist classical movement (the weirdo stuff) just lost me - I think much of it it is a mess. I can listen to Bach or Mozart, and immediately switch to Kenny BabyFace Edmonds the Cure, the English Beat, or Ravi Shankaar, They can all sound incredibly musical, good music trancends genre. But as much as I love music, I also love my electronics gear - the tweaking, setup design, variations, discussing and sharing with others passionate about science, electronics, and music - its very much a guy thing and nothing to be ashamed of. Right now I'm sitting looking at my KEF Reference 109 - The Maidstone. Theres no music coming from it at present, but I can't help admiring it as a beautiful work of art - in terms of electronics and build. Isn't that also what being an audiophile means?

Actually none of us have a problem with Melvin's equipment... we just dislike Melvin....

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 03:28 PM
Boy, you are dense. The man said it was a dog. He means it is a dog. You need to get a book on reading. Read more.

Freakin' illiterate!
Dogs can play cassettes? New one on me.:idea:

And... I didn't know they made books on reading. Do they sell them at Half-priced Books? Would they be in the Self Help area?

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 03:29 PM
Actually none of us have a problem with Melvin's equipment... we just dislike Melvin....
Actaully, we don't know if Melvin really has the equipment he brags about.

Ajani
02-05-2008, 03:45 PM
Actaully, we don't know if Melvin really has the equipment he brags about.

Good Point!!! The only thing worse than a pompous @$$ bragging about his expensive toys, is a lying pompous @$$.....

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 03:50 PM
Don't ask me, as I'm only a lowly earthling who clearly knows nothing about audio equipment.

Just as a point of interest, the Akai GX-600DB was one of the few, or perhaps the only, reel to reel 10 1/2" machines with built in Dolby noise reduction. When it worked properly (one channel currently is noticeably duller than the other), it was difficult, or impossible to tell the difference between the source or the tape during monitoring. Still, "God" said it's a "dog,'' and so it must be. Sigh......




Sounds like you need your tape heads aligned.

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 03:56 PM
Melvin's posts are like disasters. You hate that they happened but you can not look away.

O'Shag
02-05-2008, 04:07 PM
I don't agree with some of what Melvin says, but then a lot of people won't agree with some of the things I say. Honestly, I think you guys should cut Melvin some slack and take it a bit easy on him. He's just an old-timer set in his ways, and that is common to find. I've found some of the stuff Melvin says quite interesting, and some of his notions I take with a grain of salt. He's proud to be an American Republican, and sometimes this can come out a bit pompous like - but what harm is done? He loves his gear, and thinks the best happened 50 years ago - thats cool by me. I may be saying the same thing when I'm his age, who knows.. I really don't believe Melvin is intending to harm or offend anyone, he's just stating an opinion.

mlsstl
02-05-2008, 04:09 PM
What's next ? depends on the money. Books printed in the 1950's I wonder when the bible was printed ?
Can anyone translate the point of this into English? I'm not sure if he's looking for a Gutenberg original or something else. He might have some trouble making this acquisition. There are fewer than 50 copies in the world and the last sale was 20 years ago and went to some Japanese fellow for excess of $5 million.

JohnMichael
02-05-2008, 04:22 PM
I don't agree with some of what Melvin says, but then a lot of people won't agree with some of the things I say. Honestly, I think you guys should cut Melvin some slack and take it a bit easy on him. He's just an old-timer set in his ways, and that is common to find. I've found some of the stuff Melvin says quite interesting, and some of his notions I take with a grain of salt. He's proud to be an American Republican, and sometimes this can come out a bit pompous like - but what harm is done? He loves his gear, and thinks the best happened 50 years ago - thats cool by me. I may be saying the same thing when I'm his age, who knows.. I really don't believe Melvin is intending to harm or offend anyone, he's just stating an opinion.


Melvin of course has as much right here as anyone else and is a member of AR. On the other hand I think he is enjoying the give and take more than it might be bothering him. I hope the exchanges are firing him up as much as it is firing the rest of us up.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 04:30 PM
Sounds like you need your tape heads aligned.

There were several reel to reel recorders of that era that didn't really need Dolby noise
reduction, Revox and Tandberg comes to mine. The Revox did add Dolby later and used a 10 inch reel.

The Akai GX600DB was a dog with fleas. It needed all the help it could use.
The Revox A77 Mark lV had Dolby plus used 10 inch reels. The Revox A700 did not need a Doby noise reduction system and also used 10 inch reels.
I have a Revox A77 runs perfectly , has been in for repair only three times in 40 years.
The last time it was in the repair shop the technicians enjoyed the playback of the 40 year old machine.

Groundbeef
02-05-2008, 04:30 PM
Can anyone translate the point of this into English? I'm not sure if he's looking for a Gutenberg original or something else. He might have some trouble making this acquisition. There are fewer than 50 copies in the world and the last sale was 20 years ago and went to some Japanese fellow for excess of $5 million.

He should have bought a Ferrari for that kind of money. What a fool. Probably drives a Honda.

JSE
02-05-2008, 04:36 PM
There were several reel to reel recorders of that era that didn't really need Dolby noise
reduction, Revox and Tandberg comes to mine. The Revox did add Dolby later and used a 10 inch reel.

The Akai GX600DB was a dog with fleas. It needed all the help it could use.
The Revox A77 Mark lV had Dolby plus used 10 inch reels. The Revox A700 did not need a Doby noise reduction system and also used 10 inch reels.
I have a Revox A77 runs perfectly , has been in for repair only three times in 40 years.
The last time it was in the repair shop the technicians enjoyed the playback of the 40 year old machine.

I think something else needs repair!

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 04:38 PM
Can anyone translate the point of this into English? I'm not sure if he's looking for a Gutenberg original or something else. He might have some trouble making this acquisition. There are fewer than 50 copies in the world and the last sale was 20 years ago and went to some Japanese fellow for excess of $5 million.

Than there are the classics, you have heard of the classics , The Three Musketeers , Ivanhoe , David Copperfield etc. All written before 1950.
You must start reading more and not just comic books !

Ajani
02-05-2008, 04:40 PM
I don't agree with some of what Melvin says, but then a lot of people won't agree with some of the things I say. Honestly, I think you guys should cut Melvin some slack and take it a bit easy on him. He's just an old-timer set in his ways, and that is common to find. I've found some of the stuff Melvin says quite interesting, and some of his notions I take with a grain of salt. He's proud to be an American Republican, and sometimes this can come out a bit pompous like - but what harm is done? He loves his gear, and thinks the best happened 50 years ago - thats cool by me. I may be saying the same thing when I'm his age, who knows.. I really don't believe Melvin is intending to harm or offend anyone, he's just stating an opinion.

I think this is the key problem many people have with old Mel, is that we think he knows exactly what he means to say and that he says it....

It could be just a case of getting old and stuck in his ways or he may always have been pompous....

The problem being that he's gone out of his way to let everyone know that all their inexpensive audio gear, cars, jewellery, clothes etc... are totally inferior....

He makes statements about people being low class and about Blacks in America being the Smartest, Healthiest & Richest in the world (now just change the words from 'Blacks in America' to just being 'Americans' and you will understand how stupid that comment is)...

He essentially comes off as being a rich snob who looks down on everyone.... and in turn people think very little of him...

O'Shag, you clearly have a very high-end setup, and you are clearly quite proud of it and rightfully so.... but you don't act as if you regard yourself as being superior to the rest of the forum... Now if Melvin would just follow your example, I don't think any of us would have a problem with him...

O'Shag
02-05-2008, 04:49 PM
Thanks Ajani - I just hate to see the guy get hurt is all, even though some of his comments are from Pluto. Are you a Brit perchance?

JSE
02-05-2008, 04:50 PM
And.......


Ya had to asked did'nt ya? :cornut:

Rich-n-Texas
02-05-2008, 04:56 PM
Heh heh heh. Look at it this way JSE... traffic on the forum has got to be the highest its been in a loooooooong time. The marketing firm here is smiling all the way to its imaginary bank thus, we live to play another day.

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 05:03 PM
If so, he would be out of business. He sells what he needs to sell to make a profit.

A man who buys a Honda needs a car. The man who buys a Mercedes SL500 wants a car.. There is a difference.[/quptye]Yes. the man who buys Honda wants a Honda. MA man buys a Mercedes to impress his friends because he lacks the self-confidence to buy the plain but superior machine.

What's there to prove? Obviously nothing. He was afraid t hey would be able to handle their "inferior" car better than yourfrield could handle his. Your friend was apparently satisfied believing that simply throwing down money makes him a superior person.

It's not the tool that does a good job, it's the workman. It would have been interesting to see who was really the better driver. Two shallow people in an expensive car outto impress themselves.

The same can be said about any large PA speaker. What's your point?

[QUOTE=melvin walker]The same with a Ferrari. Why ?[//quote]That's what I'm asking you but you're not getting it.

And most are in the hands of people with too much money and not enough common sense to use them for their intended purpose. They just wantto look at them.

A lot of gangsta rap stars would fit right into your circle. They can buy and sell your tys but does that make them better than you? Well, in this case, I'd have to say yes.

You make marrying a whore sound acceptable. Is that how your circle lives?

That explains a lot of your anger, old boy. Dunno about cars, but you can bet your bippy that if you have a pretty young wife who married you just for your money, and you can't give her what she needs (and it ain't all about $$, old man) someone else is gonna be driving her when you're not around, or sleeping.

You have been playing in the water again , A Honda can outperform a SL500 !

I will not go as far as calling the woman a whore , but if she was it appears she was a high class whore.

In America I think a person should do what they want with their money. What is common sense?
Now tell me if that Ferrari had run off and hide from that Corvette what would have been proven. He did not want to see the two young men hurt themselves. Drag racing on a public highway makes little sense.

Money is for spending by you are someone else. I recentley bought an Audemars Piguet
watch , bought it used. My wife asked me why did I buy another watch? My answer is as usual you only go around once, may as well enjoy it the first time.
Why get old and look back and wish you had done all the things you wish you had done ?
I wish I had the money to marry a beautiful young whore. Can you amagine the smile on my face each morning when I wake up , WOW !

melvin walker
02-05-2008, 05:20 PM
I think this is the key problem many people have with old Mel, is that we think he knows exactly what he means to say and that he says it....

It could be just a case of getting old and stuck in his ways or he may always have been pompous....

The problem being that he's gone out of his way to let everyone know that all their inexpensive audio gear, cars, jewellery, clothes etc... are totally inferior....

He makes statements about people being low class and about Blacks in America being the Smartest, Healthiest & Richest in the world (now just change the words from 'Blacks in America' to just being 'Americans' and you will understand how stupid that comment is)...

He essentially comes off as being a rich snob who looks down on everyone.... and in turn people think very little of him...

O'Shag, you clearly have a very high-end setup, and you are clearly quite proud of it and rightfully so.... but you don't act as if you regard yourself as being superior to the rest of the forum... Now if Melvin would just follow your example, I don't think any of us would have a problem with him...

Tell me sir , where in the world will you find Blacks that are better off than in the United States ?
It would be nice if we in America could over look race , religion or ethnic origins. But we are people and people are not perfect , people are bias. That's the case all over the world.
In America we try and has had some success. Where in the world is there a Black middle class larger than the one in America ?

In a nation where Blacks are only 12% of the population a man is running for President who is Black. The highest ranking appointed office in our government is held by a Black women. One of the 10 richest women in the world is a Black women and the highest paid athlete in the world is a Black man all Black Americans I forgot one of the highest paid men on Wall street until recently was a Black man.

I have never said I was superior , you said that. I freely express my opinion. You can take it anyway you wish.

mlsstl
02-05-2008, 06:06 PM
Than there are the classics...
You never clarified your earlier statement (or, for that matter, you've not been particularly lucid about anything to date.)

Mel, I have to say that you are an absolute riot! You are constantly lecturing others about their lack of historical and literary knowledge, yet you write like a 7th grader who's been held back a time or two. Your "facts" are often questionable and your field of vision is about as narrow as I've seen in a still sentient being.

Back to the subject you threw out - "Books printed in the 1950's I wonder when the bible was printed ?" - what exactly was your question about the Bible? We still don't know.


The Revox A700 did not need a Doby noise reduction system...

Now, returning to audio, here is another rich illustration of your inherent contradictions. You've spent endless words talking about how the "audiophile" is on this endless search for better. Just like a car buff. (Go back and read your own tale of woe about when you were embarrassed in your Jag.)

According to half of what you say, an audiophile is never content no matter what they own. He is always on the prowl for better. Yet here you talk about your Revox and how it doesn't need Dolby noise reduction.

First, the Mk III and IV models certainly had Dolby available. If it did not need Dolby, why did Revox put it on their machines? Simple. It made the machines "better." It added several dB to an otherwise fairly ordinary 60 dB-ish S/N ratio.
http://rzootwo.com/audio_img/DolbyLogo2.jpg
Or, are you now going to tell us that a 60 dB signal-to-noise ratio is all the world needs for perfection?

It certainly wouldn't hurt you to put a bit of effort into keeping your story straight. One moment you're telling us that audiophiles are never happy with what they have and are always looking to spend more money on better equipment. Then the next thing we know, you're telling how nirvana was reached 50 years ago and hasn't been equaled since.

If nothing else, thanks for the entertainment.

(Not an audiophile under the MW definition and that, my friend, is a badge of honor to be worn proudly!)

E-Stat
02-05-2008, 06:36 PM
no car person would buy a Honda. I hope you get my point , how ever old you are.
Evidently, we not only disagree as to what constitutes an audiophile, we must likewise disagree as to what constitutes a car person. I own three Honda products.

rw

E-Stat
02-05-2008, 07:10 PM
...reel to reel 10 1/2" machines ...
At least someone here knows what they are talking about. :)

rw

Luvin Da Blues
02-05-2008, 07:27 PM
I own three Honda products.

Does this mean that your not a true audiophile then. :confused5:

basite
02-06-2008, 02:19 AM
Tell me sir , where in the world will you find Blacks that are better off than in the United States ?


and where can you find blacks that are off worse than in the USA? aside from in africa, where war terrorises every living human...

as you mentioned earlier (in another thread I believe), america is the country of the oppertunities. Unfortunately, those oppertunities are often out of reach for some.

btw, a question that has often came to my mind already...

Has your gear ever been restored? no matter how good, an old amp could definately use new caps. You'll be impressed by how much the sound improves.

and really, after you've done that, try different cables, as they really make a big difference. besides, what is $400 for someone like you Melvin...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

emaidel
02-06-2008, 04:51 AM
The Akai GX600DB was a dog with fleas. It needed all the help it could use.


NOW you tell me! Where were you 34 years ago when I could have used your help?

In truth, aside from my recent troubles with the machine (the various knobs and switches are intermittent in their operation in addition to the left channel being duller and weaker than the right), I received decades of flawless, trouble-free performance from this "dog," and it's never been in the shop.

It replaced a horribly troublesome Tandberg 64X which, while it recorded superbly at 3 3/4, was a mechanical nightmare, had a greatly inferior S/N ratio, and despite Tandberg's claim, performed very poorly in the upright position (excessive flutter). Revox made a superior machine, but the Akai was a good deal less expensive at the time. With both in perfect working order, aside from a few mechanical features of the Revox that were better than the Akai, I wonder if anyone could really hear much difference between recordings made on either one of the two.

If only I had known......

If a "dog" can perform so well for so many years, I can only wonder how I could ever have made such a horrible mistake in buying it in the first place. silly me.

emaidel
02-06-2008, 05:17 AM
Actually guys, there is one thing your wrong about. Melvin does have some really top notch gear. The Hartfields he owns give most high-end speakers a serious run for their money in some respects. If you've never heard the Hartfields you will be surprised at the sheer immediacy and quantity of information in the midrange. They're not perfect though, but they can make music seem alive and engaging the way few can..

The McIntosh 275 (I think thats what Melvin owns) is a honey of an amp, and is very synergistic with the Hartsfields. The Marantz 7c pramp which he owns is a classic -and is noted for a very analogue sound. Don't know what sources he uses. Current world value is always a good indicator of a product's sound capabilities, and here are a few 'guesstimates' on some of Melvin's old crap:
Marantz 7C Preamp: current price ranges from $4,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number
JBL Harstfield - Current price ranges from $9.500 - $25,000 depending on condition and serial number
McIntosh 275 / Original - Current prices range from $3,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number.

Some of you would be very surprised at just how good this stuff sounds. I'd hazard a guess that Melvin's 'old crap' can bring you closer to the music than 90% of the systems in Audio Review. Hard to believe - but true.

By the way, Isn't being an audiophile is just as much about being a gear-head as loving music; I would say it is. Some lean further one way, and others, the other way. I've always loved music. I listen to all types of music. Some would consider my tastes in music pretty bad. While I love Classical, Jazz and Folk; I also love R&B, World music, Techno, New Wave, some punk, and Reggae. I will even jam out to the hardest rock as long as it has a musicality to it that appeals to me. I like natural harmonies and rythms. If a piece of music is a-harmonic, it better resolve itself in a meaningful way not too far into the piece or I will lose interest - thats just me. Some of the modernist classical movement (the weirdo stuff) just lost me - I think much of it it is a mess. I can listen to Bach or Mozart, and immediately switch to Kenny BabyFace Edmonds the Cure, the English Beat, or Ravi Shankaar, They can all sound incredibly musical, good music trancends genre. But I also love my electronics gear - the tweaking, setup design, variations, discussing and sharing with others passionate about science, electronics, and music - its very much a guy thing and nothing to be ashamed of. Right now I'm sitting looking at my KEF Reference 109 - The Maidstone. Theres no music coming from it at present, but I can't help admiring it as a beautiful work of art - in terms of electronics and build. Isn't that also what being an audiophile means?


I have to admire you stepping in to defend poor 'ol Melvin. I suspect the equipment he talks about (but has yet to state he actually owns) sounds pretty good. The speakers, preamp and power amp are all "legends" in the industry, and currently command price tags hardly commensurate with their performance. I have a good deal of personal experience with the Marantz preamp, and Mac power amp, and remember how much I liked them in 1966.

In using cars as an analogy (one of Melfvin's favorite pasttimes) a '57 Chevy today is worth a small fortune, and way in excess of what it sold for back in 1957. But just how good a car is it compared to, say, a new Ford Fusion or a new Chevy Malibu? Neither of those cars has a legion of adoring fans, but both will most likely outperform the '57 Chevy by leaps and bounds. Both are a good deal smaller, but with a great deal more interior room, and handle far better. Both are faster from 0-60, but neither "slams" the driver into the seat when flooring the accelerator; both get infinitely better fuel economy and spit out far fewer noxious fumes In short, both are better automobiles, but neither has the appeal of a collector's item, which is what a '57 Chevy is, as is the equipment Melvin brags about .

Melvin's chief problem (aside from his continued horrible grammar which he steadfastly refuses to either improve, or even acknowledge) is his complete intolerance of anything newer than that available back in 1975 as being any good. That's just not so.

But then, what do I know anyway? After all, my system is "inconsistant," my tape deck "is a dog with fleas that needs all the help it can get," and my turntable/cartrdige combo "cheap."

Those of us who've criticized Melvin's take on new equipment and adoring stance for older products never ridiculed those products as Melvin does ours. That is just not playing fairly.

E-Stat
02-06-2008, 05:43 AM
Does this mean that your not a true audiophile then. :confused5:
Well, he has not as yet critiqued my systems, but I fear that will be the case. :)

rw

Ajani
02-06-2008, 05:46 AM
Tell me sir , where in the world will you find Blacks that are better off than in the United States ?

All over the world actually.... There are Blacks better, the same and worse off all over the globe... try looking....


It would be nice if we in America could over look race , religion or ethnic origins. But we are people and people are not perfect , people are bias. That's the case all over the world.
In America we try and has had some success. Where in the world is there a Black middle class larger than the one in America ?

First off, have you actually tried looking or do you just assume that the best place to be Black is America? Is America the best place to be Hispanic? To be White? To be Indian? America is a land of opportunity but it's not the only one... It may be the 'largest' land of opportunity (though technically I think Canada has greater land mass)... Contraire to popular belief, there are countries richer than America, some are even black (yes I know it's shocking... not all black countries are war torn and impoverished in some remote part of Africa)... You do realize that even some countries in the Caribbean, like Cayman and Bermuda have stronger currencies than the US? You do realize that some countries in the Caribbean have no income tax? You do realize that many of these countries are majority Black?


In a nation where Blacks are only 12% of the population a man is running for President who is Black. The highest ranking appointed office in our government is held by a Black women. One of the 10 richest women in the world is a Black women and the highest paid athlete in the world is a Black man all Black Americans I forgot one of the highest paid men on Wall street until recently was a Black man.

Using the Caribbean example again... there are may Presidents/Prime Ministers of these countries who are black (not just hoping to become their party's candidate)... The Highest ranking officials in these countries are majority black.... The richest men and woman in these countries are Black....

The point is that you have Healhty, well educated and Highly succesful people all over the world... and yes some of them are Black...


I have never said I was superior , you said that. I freely express my opinion. You can take it anyway you wish.

Neither myself nor anyone on this forum has claimed that you were superior... nor would we... I said that you let us know how inferior our CHEAP audio setups are....

markw
02-06-2008, 05:51 AM
[QUOTE=markw]If so, he would be out of business. He sells what he needs to sell to make a profit.

A man who buys a Honda needs a car. The man who buys a Mercedes SL500 wants a car.. There is a difference.[/quptye]Yes. the man who buys Honda wants a Honda. MA man buys a Mercedes to impress his friends because he lacks the self-confidence to buy the plain but superior machine.

What's there to prove? Obviously nothing. He was afraid t hey would be able to handle their "inferior" car better than your friend could handle his. Your friend was apparently satisfied believing that simply throwing down money makes him a superior person.

It's not the tool that does a good job, it's the workman. It would have been interesting to see who was really the better driver. Two shallow people in an expensive car out to impress themselves.

The same can be said about any large PA speaker. What's your point?


Well, since you blew the HTML, the "real" post starts below.

[QUOTE=melvin walker]You have been playing in the water again , A Honda can outperform a SL500 !That depends on what you mean by "performance" If that means starting every time you turn the key and not needing to spend in exorbitant amount of time n the shop. then the Honda wins hands down. If you mean going fast when it does run, then the Mercedes wins.


I will not go as far as calling the woman a whore , but if she was it appears she was a high class whore.Perhaps, but it's just a matter of price. Her type prey on old farts with more desire to impress others than avail themselves of a fine ride.


In America I think a person should do what they want with their money.True, but most don't try to rub their good fortune (or inheritance) in others faces and equate that with being a "better person". That's called "class", something your ilk obviously lack. No wonder your type has to pay for women.


What is common sense?Naturally, you would have to ask that question.


ow tell me if that Ferrari had run off and hide from that Corvette what would have been proven. He did not want to see the two young men hurt themselves. Drag racing on a public highway makes little sense.Actually, your tense is off again. Such a shame for such a self-proclaimed erudite person. It should be "hid" but that's immaterial. All it proved is that you're trying to alibi his inability to drive that fine piece of machinery. In this case, using my workman analogy from a previous post, it's simply a case a tool driving the tool.


Money is for spending by you are someone else. I recentley bought an Audemars Piguet watch , bought it used. My wife asked me why did I buy another watch? My answer is as usual you only go around once, may as well enjoy it the first time.!


Why get old and look back and wish you had done all the things you wish you had done ?
I wish I had the money to marry a beautiful young whore.Can you amagine the smile on my face each morning when I wake up , WOW !Well. so much for your respect for your wife. Sell those speakers and maybe you'll have a chance. Go out with a smile on your face. It's obvious that all your material possessions don't do that.

And, at your age I'm sure simply waking up is a surprise. It's too bad you spend your remaining days trying to impress this community instead of enjoying whatever life you have left.

Your fanciful stories are fun to play with. If you don't get it yet, we think you're a fraud, but you're such an easy target. We're still waiting for some more info on your radio show. Now, THAT can be verified.

markw
02-06-2008, 05:57 AM
Well, he has not as yet critiqued my systems, but I fear that will be the case. :)

rwNow that he knows you're a moderator, I wouldn't worry about it. Look at how he kissed up to JM once he realized who he was.

GMichael
02-06-2008, 06:06 AM
Actually guys, there is one thing your wrong about. Melvin does have some really top notch gear. The Hartfields he owns give most high-end speakers a serious run for their money in some respects. If you've never heard the Hartfields you will be surprised at the sheer immediacy and quantity of information in the midrange. They're not perfect though, but they can make music seem alive and engaging the way few can..

The McIntosh 275 (I think thats what Melvin owns) is a honey of an amp, and is very synergistic with the Hartsfields. The Marantz 7c pramp which he owns is a classic -and is noted for a very analogue sound. Don't know what sources he uses. Current world value is always a good indicator of a product's sound capabilities, and here are a few 'guesstimates' on some of Melvin's old crap:
Marantz 7C Preamp: current price ranges from $4,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number
JBL Harstfield - Current price ranges from $9.500 - $25,000 depending on condition and serial number
McIntosh 275 / Original - Current prices range from $3,500 - $7,000 depending on condition and serial number.

Some of you would be very surprised at just how good this stuff sounds. I'd hazard a guess that Melvin's 'old crap' can bring you closer to the music than 90% of the systems in Audio Review. Hard to believe - but true.

By the way, Isn't being an audiophile is just as much about being a gear-head as loving music; I would say it is. Some lean further one way, and others, the other way. I've always loved music. I listen to all types of music. Some would consider my tastes in music pretty bad. While I love Classical, Jazz and Folk; I also love R&B, World music, Techno, New Wave, some punk, and Reggae. I will even jam out to the hardest rock as long as it has a musicality to it that appeals to me. I like natural harmonies and rythms. If a piece of music is a-harmonic, it better resolve itself in a meaningful way not too far into the piece or I will lose interest - thats just me. Some of the modernist classical movement (the weirdo stuff) just lost me - I think much of it it is a mess. I can listen to Bach or Mozart, and immediately switch to Kenny BabyFace Edmonds the Cure, the English Beat, or Ravi Shankaar, They can all sound incredibly musical, good music trancends genre. But I also love my electronics gear - the tweaking, setup design, variations, discussing and sharing with others passionate about science, electronics, and music - its very much a guy thing and nothing to be ashamed of. Right now I'm sitting looking at my KEF Reference 109 - The Maidstone. Theres no music coming from it at present, but I can't help admiring it as a beautiful work of art - in terms of electronics and build. Isn't that also what being an audiophile means?

I don't have a problem with Mel's gear. H.ll, it's nicer than I'll ever get to own. It's just that he talks as if, having more money makes someone a better person. I do have a problem with that.

E-Stat
02-06-2008, 06:24 AM
Now that he knows you're a moderator, I wouldn't worry about it. Look at how he kissed up to JM once he realized who he was.
I welcome it and would be curious as to his reaction to the Sound Labs (if he has ever heard of them before) I'm just another guy here who's just trying to hekp keep a modicum of order here. :)

rw

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 06:33 AM
Wow. I missed a great deal of fun yesterday, eh.

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 07:07 AM
Wow. I missed a great deal of fun yesterday, eh.

It was a real hoot. Melvin called my setup "creepy", and Emadail's "inconsistant". I guess I can now host the AR Haloween Party. I just have to keep GM away from Elvira. He would ruin her.

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 07:10 AM
I welcome it and would be curious as to his reaction to the Sound Labs (if he has ever heard of them before) I'm just another guy here who's just trying to hekp keep a modicum of order here. :)

rw

I appreciate your efforts. With all the loose language being thrown about here, sometimes its a little scary.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 07:14 AM
and where can you find blacks that are off worse than in the USA? aside from in africa, where war terrorises every living human...

as you mentioned earlier (in another thread I believe), america is the country of the oppertunities. Unfortunately, those oppertunities are often out of reach for some.

btw, a question that has often came to my mind already...

Has your gear ever been restored? no matter how good, an old amp could definately use new caps. You'll be impressed by how much the sound improves.

and really, after you've done that, try different cables, as they really make a big difference. besides, what is $400 for someone like you Melvin...

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

There are many places where Blacks are worst off, western Europe , South America , Africa , , the Caribbean etc. . There is a very large Black middle class in America the largest in the world. Example in the St.Louis metro area , most Blacks live in the suburbs , which you will find is the case in most American metro areas.

The average income of American Blacks is greater than 90% of most of the world's people including some western Europeans , and certainly greater than eastern Europeans.
In America every citizen has a right to succeed or fail. Many Black Americas are succeeding and there are some who are failing , same as with any group including White Americans.

The only update has been to remove the 075 tweeter and replace it with a 175DLH to
smooth out the high end.
I have my amps and tuner checked out once a year , usually to add new tubes. My Revox was recently in for repairs. My TT and arm is also checked out , especially the cartridge.
I treat my audio system no different than my cars.

Bernd
02-06-2008, 07:26 AM
In America every citizen has a right to succeed or fail.
.

So they have in many other countries. This is not an american monopol, and many countries have better safety nets than the US, should you fail in your attempt to succeed. I have had success in several different lands.
But what has all that to do with the question posed?
You said you were an audiophile. So what are you now?

Peace

:16:

basite
02-06-2008, 07:30 AM
The only update has been to remove the 075 tweeter and replace it with a 175DLH to
smooth out the high end.
I have my amps and tuner checked out once a year , usually to add new tubes. My Revox was recently in for repairs. My TT and arm is also checked out , especially the cartridge.
I treat my audio system no different than my cars.


no, I don't mean things like that.

over the years, the electrolytic capacitors in your gears dry out. Causing your system to sound different, and eventually it can cause damage (a too high DC offset and such), have them checked out next time you have your gear checked out.



Keep them spinning,
Bert.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 07:32 AM
I don't have a problem with Mel's gear. H.ll, it's nicer than I'll ever get to own. It's just that he talks as if, having more money makes someone a better person. I do have a problem with that.
I never said " Having more money makes one a better person .
Having money enables one to have a higher standard of living. I would much rather be rich than poor.
I appreciate the finer things in life. Music . art . cars. clothes , jewelry , travel , food , wines , books , etc,etc.
I make no excuses for that. I have visited people in America and in other parts of the world who are very poor. I am not only glad , but proud to be an American.
America is truly in my opinion the land of opportunity. If you can't make it in America , you can't make it anywhere.

My parents taught me to work hard , plan hard , and not make excuses for my failures.
Look in the mirror first. Identify your problems and than do something about them.If you enjoy cars , why drive a Honda when you can drive a Porsche ?
Greed is good , greed is necessary.
That is my opinion.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 07:37 AM
I have no interest in drug heads. I am more interested in Iraq , health care , the economy ,
Presidential race , the Superbowl , world series , tennis grand slams, world events , etc.
Never heard of her. if she was on the news I would change the channel , get something more interesting.
My opinion.

Ah, all things savored from the sidelines. Remember being an active participant in life?

Like a fly encased in amber, the metaphysical scream in the wilderness, an entire posting career based on the ethic of revenge and bitterness. Sorry it's passed you by, old boy.

O'Shag feels that we're being too hard on you sport, and posits that the appreciation of the machine is as intrinsic to the hobby as the love of music. To an extent I agree but I think he fails to fully grasp the way you use words to cajole, instigate and offend. It's pretty clear that you have arrived not to deliver us from the deserts of low-fi but to make yourself feel superior via the only outlet left to you.

...and who composed this "complete Guide"? Usually when giving definitions I use accepted references like Mirriam-Webster for consistency, but then again the rudiments of English are foreign to you so I wouldn't imagine theories of consistency play to well either. For what it's worth Hitler and Bush were/are masters of making up their own definitions for words based on convenience, so you're in good company.

My friend's daughter throws cereal on the floor when she wants attention too. It's okay mon ami, do not go gentle into that good night.

Bernd
02-06-2008, 07:40 AM
Greed is good , greed is necessary.
That is my opinion.

That is your opinion and it stinks. Greed is not good. Along with vanity, conceit and selfishness it is a despicable trait. And that is my opinion.

Peace

:16:

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 07:46 AM
All over the world actually.... There are Blacks better, the same and worse off all over the globe... try looking....



First off, have you actually tried looking or do you just assume that the best place to be Black is America? Is America the best place to be Hispanic? To be White? To be Indian? America is a land of opportunity but it's not the only one... It may be the 'largest' land of opportunity (though technically I think Canada has greater land mass)... Contraire to popular belief, there are countries richer than America, some are even black (yes I know it's shocking... not all black countries are war torn and impoverished in some remote part of Africa)... You do realize that even some countries in the Caribbean, like Cayman and Bermuda have stronger currencies than the US? You do realize that some countries in the Caribbean have no income tax? You do realize that many of these countries are majority Black?



Using the Caribbean example again... there are may Presidents/Prime Ministers of these countries who are black (not just hoping to become their party's candidate)... The Highest ranking officials in these countries are majority black.... The richest men and woman in these countries are Black....

The point is that you have Healhty, well educated and Highly succesful people all over the world... and yes some of them are Black...



Neither myself nor anyone on this forum has claimed that you were superior... nor would we... I said that you let us know how inferior our CHEAP audio setups are....

I see no reason for one to have inferior and cheap audio equipment. There is Ebay !

Even you would not compare a third world country in the Caribbean with the richest and most powerful country in the worlds history.
America has the largest Black middle class in the world ! America has the largest Black upper middle class in the world ! , America has the largest number of rich Blacks in the world ! Millionaires and multi-millionaires. Even Billionaires in the world !
America has the largest number of Blacks with a college education and who have graduated from secondary schools in the world.

If you are Black and living in America , America offers you the best opportunity to take advantage of your skills than any country in the world !

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 07:50 AM
That is your opinion and it stinks. Greed is not good. Along with vanity, conceit and selfishness it is a despicable trait. And that is my opinion.

Peace

:16:
Without greed , Columbus would not have discovered America. America would not be the richest and most powerful country in the worlds history.
A country which allows you to agree and disagree with your leaders and still earn a million dollars.
Greed is good , greed is wonderful.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 08:03 AM
Ah, all things savored from the sidelines. Remember being an active participant in life?

Like a fly encased in amber, the metaphysical scream in the wilderness, an entire posting career based on the ethic of revenge and bitterness. Sorry it's passed you by, old boy.

O'Shag feels that we're being too hard on you sport, and posits that the appreciation of the machine is as intrinsic to the hobby as the love of music. To an extent I agree but I think he fails to fully grasp the way you use words to cajole, instigate and offend. It's pretty clear that you have arrived not to deliver us from the deserts of low-fi but to make yourself feel superior via the only outlet left to you.

...and who composed this "complete Guide"? Usually when giving definitions I use accepted references like Mirriam-Webster for consistency, but then again the rudiments of English are foreign to you so I wouldn't imagine theories of consistency play to well either. For what it's worth Hitler and Bush were/are masters of making up their own definitions for words based on convenience, so you're in good company.

My friend's daughter throws cereal on the floor when she wants attention too. It's okay mon ami, do not go gentle into that good night.

Both President Bush and Adolph Hitler were successful men. Hitler rose from an out of worked post card painter to become the leader of the most powerful country in Europe , loved by millions of Germans and some Americans , Henry Ford was one of them.
He made some political mistakes which brought about his downfall.

President Bush was elected for two terms , as President of the most powerful country in the world's history. History will judge how successful a President he is/was.
I voted for him both times , since he won both times I backed a winner !

If I remember correctly you are the English major , the grammar coach . Wonderful because your audio equipment is junk !!

basite
02-06-2008, 08:27 AM
Learn your history, columbus tought he had arrived in India. Which is also the reason why the Indians were called this way. and what he discovered was more like sout america, you know, the poor part which most of the americans.

and in fact, Columbus was not the first to discover America at all, the Vikings were the first to go there, the first to actually discover America, and actually realized it was america, was Americo Vespucci (hence the name). Columbus didn't even realize he was on another continent.

greed is bad, most of the times. If everyone was greedy, the world would be one big chaotic mess. everyone would start taking from everyone else, just so he has more.

one should be a bit greedy though, but there should be a balance, and a limit.

oh, and for the record, you use the world powerful with the meaning of 'having the ability to win the most wars', some would say china is more powerful, since if they would cease production and export, the world's economy would collapse Instantly.

And also check this link: http://www.aneki.com/countries_gdp_per_capita.html

the country with the highest GNP is Luxembourg. That's right, a country with a good social insurance, health care and 'high taxes'. norway is 4th, another country with a good social system, exellent health care and where everything is bloody expensive, and taxes are high.

in fact, america is only at place 6.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Feanor
02-06-2008, 08:28 AM
Both President Bush and Adolph Hitler were successful men. Hitler rose from an out of worked post card painter to become the leader of the most powerful country in Europe , loved by millions of Germans and some Americans , Henry Ford was one of them.
He made some political mistakes which brought about his downfall.

President Bush was elected for two terms , as President of the most powerful country in the world's history. History will judge how successful a President he is/was.
I voted for him both times , since he won both times I backed a winner !

...

Hitler and Bush the Younger are an interesting comparision:

Hitler was the only son of a petty bureaucrat who died when Hitler was very young. G.W. was the son of a rich man who is still pretty much alive.
Hitler rose to be leader of his country from rank poverty and obscurity. G.W. rose to his national leadership with the backing of his father, a former President, and many millions of dollars.
Hitler served volunteered as a common soldier in the trenches in WWI; he won an Iron Cross, 1st Class, a decoration rarely awared to non-commissioned soldiers. G.W. avoided Viet Nam by doing dubious National Guard service.
Hitler made political, but more critically, military mistakes that brought about his well-deserved downfall. G.W. made political and military mistakes that have made him the most dislike U.S. President in recent history and, some say, the worst President in the last century.It seems what they had most in common was a penchant for political and military mistakes.

SlumpBuster
02-06-2008, 08:36 AM
Greed is good , greed is necessary.
That is my opinion.

I like to get all my life maxims and lessons from crappy Oliver Stone movies, too! That's why I alway say:

"That's the worst f--in' head I ever got in my life! Next time don't be so f--in' eager!" Mallory - Natural Born Killers

basite
02-06-2008, 08:36 AM
President Bush was elected for two terms , as President of the most powerful country in the world's history. History will judge how successful a President he is/was.
I voted for him both times , since he won both times I backed a winner !

If I remember correctly you are the English major , the grammar coach . Wonderful because your audio equipment is junk !!


no. Bush's election was 'corrupt' the first time. Fox (that's right, that republican biased tv channel), just mentioned that Bush won the elections, but not all the votes were counted, and in fact, Al Gore had more votes, and he should have been the president of 'the most powerful country in the world'.

and the most powerful country in the worlds history? The USA only existed since 1776, way after france and Germany, and spain, Egypt existed even longer before the USA. All of the afromentioned countries were once more powerful than the USA.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

GMichael
02-06-2008, 08:37 AM
I never said " Having more money makes one a better person .
Having money enables one to have a higher standard of living. I would much rather be rich than poor.
I appreciate the finer things in life. Music . art . cars. clothes , jewelry , travel , food , wines , books , etc,etc.
I make no excuses for that. I have visited people in America and in other parts of the world who are very poor. I am not only glad , but proud to be an American.
America is truly in my opinion the land of opportunity. If you can't make it in America , you can't make it anywhere.

My parents taught me to work hard , plan hard , and not make excuses for my failures.
Look in the mirror first. Identify your problems and than do something about them.If you enjoy cars , why drive a Honda when you can drive a Porsche ?
Greed is good , greed is necessary.
That is my opinion.

I never said that you said it. I said that you have implied it. And you continue to do so. You are very good at not stating what you are clearly saying. But that doesn't mean that the message isn't coming across. You keep putting anyone or anything down as, "why would I bother with that...." comments. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the meaning there.
Oh, that's just my opinion.

SlumpBuster
02-06-2008, 08:39 AM
Without greed , Columbus would not have discovered America. .

I see Melvin is still using history books from the 1950's too.

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 08:40 AM
Three greenies for you GM.

GMichael
02-06-2008, 08:50 AM
Wonderful because your audio equipment is junk !!

Statement like this have no place here. I don't care if he has an AM clock radio, you don't call another man's equipment junk unless you are a pompus a$$. But that's just my opinion.

SlumpBuster
02-06-2008, 08:55 AM
you don't call another man's equipment is junk

My "junk" is my "equipment." :cornut: It's also my "garbage."

emaidel
02-06-2008, 08:58 AM
[QUOTE=melvin walker] Adolph Hitler

He made some political mistakes which brought about his downfall.

QUOTE]

Melvin, your poor ignorant fellow, there are over 6,000,000 dead souls as a result of Hitler's "political mistakes."

Shame on you for belittling their memory, and lumping their deaths under such an innocent sounding, and totally ridiculous statement.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 08:59 AM
Melvin, you're freakin' priceless...like the a less-sinister version of the little old lady from Poltergeist.

I'm going to ignore the truly ignoble reference to Hitler's "political errors". Some might consider that hate-mongering or Jew-baiting, but I recognize it for the instigation that it is. Really, not even a very good troll...



If I remember correctly you are the English major , the grammar coach . Wonderful because your audio equipment is junk !!

This is where it gets good. I was not and have never claimed to be an English major. If you check the back posts you'll also see that I'm not one of the many that have been constantly criticizing your garbled missives. If I have in any way displayed a wit or erudition that has threatened your status I apologize and promise that from this point on I shall do everything in my power to write down to a level that meets your comprehension skills. Perhaps if I throw in a few misspellings, dangling participles and plurality errors you'll feel better about things.

My favorite part of your post is the dismissal of my equipment as junk. Clearly you have read my profile, you clever cat. It says under equipment list: "soup cans, string, Knight Kit Radio Space Spanner, Machine Dynamica tweak". I had assumed that anybody reading this would recognize it as hyperbole, forgetting of course that there might still be some around that remembered when these items were SOTA. I am also not a shepherd.

For what little it's worth my equipment list is made up of Martin Logan and McIntosh, at least one of those brands being one of which you are a proponent. It goes without saying that by attempting to insult me this way you have, in fact, insulted yourself. I have no problem talking about gear but don't feel the need to throw it in people's faces the way you seem to. I feel that our hobby should be one of inclusion and that music is a social medium. You clearly feel differently.

mlsstl
02-06-2008, 09:03 AM
Melvin wrote:
"He (Hitler) made some political mistakes which brought about his downfall."
Hitler was responsible for a world war with about 60 million total dead and 6 million exterminated in concentration camps. Could the phrase "political mistake" be a bit of an understatement?

And what does this have to do with whether one is an audiophile or not?

emaidel
02-06-2008, 09:12 AM
Well, Melvin, so far you've refused to state the name of the program you did on the radio, or the radio station's call letters, as well as continually refused to identify the $50,000 speaker that an old AR3a "blows away."

Now, let's see you squirm your way out of this one.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 09:15 AM
Hitler was responsible for a world war with about 60 million total dead and 6 million exterminated in concentration camps. Could the phrase "political mistake" be a bit of an understatement?

And what does this have to do with whether one is an audiophile or not?

No , Germany invaded Poland , Great Britain and France declared war on Germany.
There were concentration camps before Hitler , the British used concentration camps in the Boer War in South Africa.
Hitler made a political mistake when he invaded the Soviet Union and declared war on the United States.

As for as your audiophile question , I was responding to another post.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 09:18 AM
Well, Melvin, so far you've refused to state the name of the program you did on the radio, or the radio station's call letters, as well as continually refused to identify the $50,000 speaker that an old AR3a "blows away."

Now, let's see you squirm your way out of this one.
The stations call letters was KATZ and KWK. The name of the program was "The other side "

Ajani
02-06-2008, 09:18 AM
I never said that you said it. I said that you have implied it. And you continue to do so. You are very good at not stating what you are clearly saying. But that doesn't mean that the message isn't coming across. You keep putting anyone or anything down as, "why would I bother with that...." comments. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the meaning there.
Oh, that's just my opinion.

Well Said....

Here's another green chiclet for your collection...

Try not to rot your teeth though...

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 09:25 AM
Melvin, you're freakin' priceless...like the a less-sinister version of the little old lady from Poltergeist.

I'm going to ignore the truly ignoble reference to Hitler's "political errors". Some might consider that hate-mongering or Jew-baiting, but I recognize it for the instigation that it is. Really, not even a very good troll...




This is where it gets good. I was not and have never claimed to be an English major. If you check the back posts you'll also see that I'm not one of the many that have been constantly criticizing your garbled missives. If I have in any way displayed a wit or erudition that has threatened your status I apologize and promise that from this point on I shall do everything in my power to write down to a level that meets your comprehension skills. Perhaps if I throw in a few misspellings, dangling participles and plurality errors you'll feel better about things.

My favorite part of your post is the dismissal of my equipment as junk. Clearly you have read my profile, you clever cat. It says under equipment list: "soup cans, string, Knight Kit Radio Space Spanner, Machine Dynamica tweak". I had assumed that anybody reading this would recognize it as hyperbole, forgetting of course that there might still be some around that remembered when these items were SOTA. I am also not a shepherd.

For what little it's worth my equipment list is made up of Martin Logan and McIntosh, at least one of those brands being one of which you are a proponent. It goes without saying that by attempting to insult me this way you have, in fact, insulted yourself. I have no problem talking about gear but don't feel the need to throw it in people's faces the way you seem to. I feel that our hobby should be one of inclusion and that music is a social medium. You clearly feel differently.

An audiophile is having fun criticizing other audiophiles equipment , discussing which is best are better. Much like carphiles, my Chevrolet is faster than your Ford. Or Chrysler's
are not made as well as Lincolns. A lot of fun.
That would exclude you because you are not an audiophile !

GMichael
02-06-2008, 09:25 AM
No , Germany invaded Poland , Great Britain and France declared war on Germany.
There were concentration camps before Hitler , the British used concentration camps in the Boer War in South Africa.
Hitler made a political mistake when he invaded the Soviet Union and declared war on the United States.

As for as your audiophile question , I was responding to another post.

Hitler put people in ovens to see how much heat a person could take before they died. (ovens built by Mercedes by the way) The British (or anyone else) never did this. And no one ever has since.
By the way, Japan attacked the USA and declared war before Hitler did. He actually told Japan to wait. How can you not know these things?

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 09:29 AM
Well Said....

Here's another green chiclet for your collection...

Try not to rot your teeth though...

You can draw any conclusion you wish. That is your opinion. Why not quote what I said.
You appear to have a very vivid imagination.

mlsstl
02-06-2008, 09:32 AM
Mel, I think most serious historical scholars don't have a problem with Hitler having "started" WWII with his actions.

And, I find your comment that equivocates the British with Hitler's intentional and direct extermination of 6 million people odious. I find it odd, that given your political comments to date, that you would stoop to an allegation of moral equivalence.

However, I momentarily forgot that consistency and logic are not your strong points.

GMichael
02-06-2008, 09:38 AM
You can draw any conclusion you wish. That is your opinion. Why not quote what I said.
You appear to have a very vivid imagination.

Why don't you quote what I said instead of someone who was just agreeing with me?
Everyone seems to be drawing the same conclusion. Doesn't that say anything to you?

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 09:41 AM
Hitler put people in ovens to see how much heat a person could take before they died. (ovens built by Mercedes by the way) The British (or anyone else) never did this. And no one ever has since.
By the way, Japan attacked the USA and declared war before Hitler did. He actually told Japan to wait. How can you not know these things?

I was aware of that , but my response was to another post. The British were guilty of many things , through out their history as well as many good things in my opinion.
The final solution is what you are referring to , with the ovens. read more about "The
Final Solution" and you will find there was many guilty parties and not all of them German.

The Nazi's used the ovens as an efficient means of disposing of bodies.
You must read more history " How much heat a person could take before they died "
Di you read any World War Two history ? Stay with audio , please

GMichael
02-06-2008, 09:50 AM
I was aware of that , but my response was to another post. The British were guilty of many things , through out their history as well as many good things in my opinion.
The final solution is what you are referring to , with the ovens. read more about "The
Final Solution" and you will find there was many guilty parties and not all of them German.

The Nazi's used the ovens as an efficient means of disposing of bodies.
You must read more history " How much heat a person could take before they died "
Di you read any World War Two history ? Stay with audio , please

Yes, I have read a bit of history myself. I've also done a little reading as well as attended classes in science. Not to defend Hitler, but a lot of scientific breakthroughs in health & medicine came out of his disgusting experiments. So, yeah. He did want to see how much heat would kill a person. He would have people's arms and legs broken and re-broken as experiments as well. Go back and do some reading before you spout off like you know what you are talking about. Maybe you are the one who should stick to audio.

basite
02-06-2008, 09:51 AM
The British were guilty of many things


quite ironically this comes from an American, guilty of so much things too...




Stay with audio , please


said the person who compares audio with everything else that has nothing to do with audio in any thinkable way. In fact, you even managed to get politics involved.

Explain the link between audio and politics please?

oh, and saying Bobs equipment is 'junk', is probably only because he's not a moderator, and because you're to ignorant to actually listen to new things too. If you had listened to new things you would know the gear he has isn't junk. Neither is my gear, neither is most of the peoples gear on this forum.

I'm curious what you think about this man's gear:
http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=3304&cat=500&size=big&ppuser=244261

he's a member here too. Florian.
he uploads pictures of his system, just like me:
http://gallery.audioreview.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&page=1&ppuser=254618

when are you going to show some photos of your system? We're all very curious.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 09:58 AM
An audiophile is having fun criticizing other audiophiles equipment , discussing which is best are better. Much like carphiles, my Chevrolet is faster than your Ford. Or Chrysler's
are not made as well as Lincolns. A lot of fun.
That would exclude you because you are not an audiophile !

Well, that was a characteristically consistent and unsurprisingly vapid method of avoidance after being so completely owned...to paraphrase, you are the epitome of sound and fury but in the end much ado about nothing.

But, you are correct in that I am no audiophile, although I suspect we have differening routes to arrive at that conclusion. To you, I am not an audiophile because I am younger than you and don't have an irrational and insurmountable reverence for all things vintage. Mostly, it's because I disagree with you and call you on the massive level of hypocrisy of your posts.

On the other hand, I refuse the moniker of audiophile because it would mean spending more time on poncy-assed poseurs like you.

By the way, "Chrysler's" was not meant to be possessive.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 10:06 AM
Mel, I think most serious historical scholars don't have a problem with Hitler having "started" WWII with his actions.

And, I find your comment that equivocates the British with Hitler's intentional and direct extermination of 6 million people odious. I find it odd, that given your political comments to date, that you would stoop to an allegation of moral equivalence.

However, I momentarily forgot that consistency and logic are not your strong points.

The facts are sir that Germany invaded Poland alone with the Soviet Union , France and Great Britain declared war on Germany , thus began the war in Europe.
You to much read more on " The final solution " which led to the death of millions of Jews and other groups.

Wars are not moral sir , wars are based on political decisions , what happens doing a war is again based on political expediency and the need to win.
I think Herman Goring stated it best " If we had won the war we would have tried Truman
and Churchill "

My comment was based on a member discussing concentration camps. It was the British who first used Concentration camps , they used them in the Boer War. Thousands of White Afrikaners died as a result of the terrible conditions in the camps , women and children alone with men.
Did they gas them ? no , burn them no, it would have made no good political sense.

American history lends itself to acts similar to the Nazi's. In an attempt to deprive native Americans of their lands and change their living habits. Did they gas them ?no
burn them ? no. Were they successful in depriving the Native American of their lands and
eliminating many tribes from existence ? yes.

Those who live in glass houses should not throw rocks !

SlumpBuster
02-06-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm out. All the swear words in the world can't match this loose language.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 10:19 AM
Yes, I have read a bit of history myself. I've also done a little reading as well as attended classes in science. Not to defend Hitler, but a lot of scientific breakthroughs in health & medicine came out of his disgusting experiments. So, yeah. He did want to see how much heat would kill a person. He would have people's arms and legs broken and re-broken as experiments as well. Go back and do some reading before you spout off like you know what you are talking about. Maybe you are the one who should stick to audio.

Oh my goodness , Hitler was the leader of the Nazi's , not a guard in the camps.
I will add many of the camp guards were not even German , but eastern Europeans !
The person that did the experiments on camp prisoners was Dr. Fritz Mengeles.
There is no record that shows that Hitler personally was involved in camp experiments are suggested that they be done.
Please read !

GMichael
02-06-2008, 10:24 AM
Oh my goodness , Hitler was the leader of the Nazi's , not a guard in the camps.
I will add many of the camp guards were not even German , but eastern Europeans !
The person that did the experiments on camp prisoners was Dr. Fritz Mengeles.
There is no record that shows that Hitler personally was involved in camp experiments are suggested that they be done.
Please read !
You read. I already did. The info I gave was straight out of a text book.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 10:26 AM
Oh my goodness , Hitler was the leader of the Nazi's , not a guard in the camps.
I will add many of the camp guards were not even German , but eastern Europeans !
The person that did the experiments on camp prisoners was Dr. Fritz Mengeles.
There is no record that shows that Hitler personally was involved in camp experiments are suggested that they be done.
Please read !

The Angel of Death named Josef Mengele did indeed go by the alias Fritz Ulmann but that was not his real name. Clearly he deceived you and you were not on as familiar terms as once thought.

Perhaps your powers of discernment were sapped by the lovemaking.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 10:28 AM
Why don't you quote what I said instead of someone who was just agreeing with me?
Everyone seems to be drawing the same conclusion. Doesn't that say anything to you?
Maybe many of the members on this website are much like you. Which is not saying to much good about those members
There are AV member's that are quite knowledgeable . I think we know who they are.
Lets leave it at that.

markw
02-06-2008, 10:29 AM
Oh my goodness , Hitler was the leader of the Nazi's , not a guard in the camps.
I will add many of the camp guards were not even German , but eastern Europeans !
The person that did the experiments on camp prisoners was Dr. Fritz Mengeles.
There is no record that shows that Hitler personally was involved in camp experiments are suggested that they be done.
Please read !This is a classic! Poor widdle Adolph had no knowledge or control over the extermination of the Jews, inhuman experiments on captured preoples, and any other atrocities that Germany committed during the war. He just sat in his room, thought happy thoughts, and planned for the betterment of all mankind, regardless of race or religion.

...and the Pope's not Catholic.

This is beyond pathetic! We don't need this type of member here.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 10:31 AM
This is a classic! Poor widdle Adolph had no knowledge or control over the extermination of the Jews, inhuman experiments on captured preoples, and any other atrocities that Germany committed during the war. He just sat in his room, thought happy thoughts, and planned for the betterment of all mankind, regardless of race or religion.

...and the Pope's not Catholic.

This is beyond pathetic! We don't need this type of member here.

Now I see why we finish so far behind other countries in testing.

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 10:34 AM
The Angel of Death named Josef Mengele did indeed go by the alias Fritz Ulmann but that was not his real name. Clearly he deceived you and you were not on as familiar terms as once thought.

Perhaps your powers of discernment were sapped by the lovemaking.

You are correct , but while working as a doctor at Auschwitz he used the name Fritz , his name was Josef.

basite
02-06-2008, 10:37 AM
Maybe many of the members on this website are much like you. Which is not saying to much good about those members
There are AV member's that are quite knowledgeable . I think we know who they are.
Lets leave it at that.


GM is pretty knowledgeable, just like many other members at this site.

And who do you think are knowledgeable?

GMichael
02-06-2008, 10:44 AM
Now I see why we finish so far behind other countries in testing.


You truly are a hopeless case.:17:

Ajani
02-06-2008, 10:48 AM
This is a classic! Poor widdle Adolph had no knowledge or control over the extermination of the Jews, inhuman experiments on captured preoples, and any other atrocities that Germany committed during the war. He just sat in his room, thought happy thoughts, and planned for the betterment of all mankind, regardless of race or religion.

...and the Pope's not Catholic.

This is beyond pathetic! We don't need this type of member here.

Agreed. A Troll is essentially someone who throws a topical bomb with the sole purpose of stirring up controversy... e.g. Bose is Awesome!!!

Mel has mastered the art of creating deliberate controversy.... Despite the fact that he pays little attention to spelling and/or grammar... he seems to pick his words very carefully... often choosing something with a very offensive implied meaning...

markw
02-06-2008, 11:01 AM
Now I see why we finish so far behind other countries in testing.Because most moral people admit seeing Hitler for the monster he was rather than trying to excuse his actions like you? Unless, of course, you had no problems with his actions, which would not surprise me.

BTW, you lied about your radio program. I checked.

mlsstl
02-06-2008, 11:03 AM
Mel, you have a marvelous ability concerning "facts" - even when you have them you lack any ability to place them in a larger cognitive context. Simply put, France and Britain would have had no reason to respond under their treaty obligations to Poland had Germany never taken the first action.

You also continue with your disgusting moral equivalence by comparing the deaths of thousands under poor conditions with the intentional slaughter of millions. Even then, you declare the British were the "first" to use concentration camps. And you have the temerity to lecture others about knowledge of history? Internment camps are as old as man. One can go back to the Assyrians, over 3,000 years ago, and find them.

The judges award you two points for audacity, but that's about it.

That is a simply reprehensible comparison. This is not "conservative" talk. It is simply embarrassing jabber. What a waste of space!

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 11:09 AM
Neither in my opinion. A troll is someone who intentionally drops a topical bomb, leaves, and expects controversy in the wake. While controversy can certainly be found in posts by either of them, I believe that was not their intention. Unfortunately, SVI is an easy target and doesn't understand why he triggers the kind of responses he gets. MW seems to be Rip Van Winkle incarnate having woken from a forty year sleep and likewise doesn't understand the responses he gets - albeit from a different perspective.
Think of Melvin as someone who drops a topical bomb, leaves and then comes back to drop another topical bomb. Think of every one of his posts as topical bombs.

Now, are trolls supposed to be banned from this site or not E-Stat?

To me, this explanation describes JOEBIALEK to a T (Not you Sir T), but he still manages to drop by and stir up controversy. ???
You never did respond to this.

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 11:11 AM
Hitler was responsible for a world war with about 60 million total dead and 6 million exterminated in concentration camps. Could the phrase "political mistake" be a bit of an understatement?

And what does this have to do with whether one is an audiophile or not?

Rumor has it that Hitler himself came up with the 12' "optimal speaker distance" equation. In fact, it would make sense that a German develop the perfect audio formula.

Antother little known tibit was that one of his mistress' duties was to make sure that in ANY room that Hitler stepped into, all speakers were 12' apart. Needless to say this made for some humorus moments in the bunker.

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 11:17 AM
Guys, Marvin was in college in 1958 so he was alive during WWII. Did you say your country of origin was Germany Mel? Who was the dictator... err...president when you were born?

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 11:20 AM
when are you going to show some photos of your system? We're all very curious.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

That could prove problematic for Mr. Walker. Seeing as his "newest" camera is from 1887 its not instant gratification like todays spoiled brats.

First he has to hire a guy to stand and hold the "flash" that burns a line of gunpowder for a flash. Then the image has to be etched in glass.

Next there is some process with mercury,(I can't remember all of it for God's sake!)

Then he would need to have someone transfer it to actual paper. Then scanned by someone else, and finally uploaded to the computer.

I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 11:25 AM
Agreed. A Troll is essentially someone who throws a topical bomb with the sole purpose of stirring up controversy... e.g. Bose is Awesome!!!

Mel has mastered the art of creating deliberate controversy.... Despite the fact that he pays little attention to spelling and/or grammar... he seems to pick his words very carefully... often choosing something with a very offensive implied meaning...

Are you suggesting that Melvin is a Masterdebater?

Ajani
02-06-2008, 11:48 AM
Are you suggesting that Melvin is a Masterdebater?

lol

Ummm.... I think he's more a Troll than anything else...

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 12:23 PM
Because most moral people admit seeing Hitler for the monster he was rather than trying to excuse his actions like you? Unless, of course, you had no problems with his actions, which would not surprise me.

BTW, you lied about your radio program. I checked.

I may be wrong , but was Hitler the man of the year posted by Time Magazine ?
Did Henry Ford president of Ford Motor Co. Have a picture of Hitler in his office ?
I was under the impression that Charles Lindbergh admired Herr Adolph.

Hitler and Germany lost the war ? Hitler was well loved in Germany ,Germans stood in line for hours just to get a look at him.
Monster , what about Joseph Stalin an American ally ? He killed millions of his own people.
There was Ho Chi Minh , another American ally ,58,000 American troops died in Indo China !
Japan killed 40 million Chinese , were they moral or monsters ?

I resent you calling me a liar ! I don't have to lie to you. I don't know you and could care less who you are.

Be careful who you call a monster, It might be the next person you vote for.
If I lied about being on radio your mother is a liar !!!!

melvin walker
02-06-2008, 12:26 PM
Guys, Marvin was in college in 1958 so he was alive during WWII. Did you say your country of origin was Germany Mel? Who was the dictator... err...president when you were born?

Old Franklin D !

GMichael
02-06-2008, 12:30 PM
Someone get the nurse.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 12:34 PM
Naptime must be over.

JSE
02-06-2008, 12:37 PM
I may be wrong , but was Hitler the man of the year posted by Time Magazine ?
Did Henry Ford president of Ford Motor Co. Have a picture of Hitler in his office ?
I was under the impression that Charles Lindbergh admired Herr Adolph.

Hitler and Germany lost the war ? Hitler was well loved in Germany ,Germans stood in line for hours just to get a look at him.
Monster , what about Joseph Stalin an American ally ? He killed millions of his own people.
There was Ho Chi Minh , another American ally ,58,000 American troops died in Indo China !
Japan killed 40 million Chinese , were they moral or monsters ?

I resent you calling me a liar ! I don't have to lie to you. I don't know you and could care less who you are.

Be careful who you call a monster, It might be the next person you vote for.
If I lied about being on radio your mother is a liar !!!!

You are truly a sad pathetic old man. You clearly seem to be in the earley stages of dementia.

At first you tended to annoy me with your postings but now I truly feel sorry for you. It must be hard growing old and slowly losing your mind while trying to cling to the "good ol' days" on your younger years.

JSE

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 12:37 PM
You are correct , but while working as a doctor at Auschwitz he used the name Fritz , his name was Josef.

So, you're admitting that I am correct in the assertion that while the you and Josef Mengele were making love that he deceived you as to his true identity. You must feel so violated.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 12:40 PM
If I lied about being on radio your mother is a liar !!!!

Ooops,you're still woosy from the meds. You realise that the only way this sentence makes any sense is if you just proclaimed to be markw's mom.

Can't y'all just envision melvin stumbling around the home with his SS Khakis, Eva Braun lipstick and Katzenjammer Kids lunch pail screaming "I want to give birth!!"?

basite
02-06-2008, 12:44 PM
Hitler and Germany lost the war ? Hitler was well loved in Germany ,Germans stood in line for hours just to get a look at him.

after all, he was the man that gave Germany a moment of economical growth, and gave the german people jobs.

But does that justify his acts? I think not. I sometimes think he just had a different vision of Germany, (especially after watching the movie 'der untergang', or 'the downfall', the american release name), 'unfortunately', he got nuts and worked that out on the jews. He tried to justify his acts by referring/relating his theory of the ubermensch (blonde, blue eyes, tall, and thin) to Nietzsche's theory, which actually said that the 'ubermensch' should stand on his own, be individual, he should decide on his own what was good and what was bad. Slightly different from Hitler's theory, which related the ubermensch to a cerain race (the blonde, blue-eyed, tall and thin human). Racism followed. Hitler made the German people follow him. He influenced them, he made them hate the jews.

causing racism, which eventually leads to the near extinction of a entire 'race', isn't something that can be justified. and while we're at it, it's basically the same as Columbus, and later the early Americans did with the Indians.


and just FYI: ubermensch, in which also lies the deeper meaning behind the movie/serie 'superman'.



Be careful who you call a monster, It might be the next person you vote for.
If I lied about being on radio your mother is a liar !!!!


Eh?

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

markw
02-06-2008, 12:50 PM
You realise that the only way this sentence makes any sense is if you just proclaimed to be markw's mom.He's a mother all right, but he's not my mother! ;)



I resent you calling me a liar !Deal with it, old man.



I don't have to lie to you.Yet you did. ...strange.


I don't know you and could care less who you are.Then why does it bother you lied to me (us) and got caught?


If I lied about being on radio your mother is a liar !!!!So, ol' mel's stooped to dragging parents into this,eh?

...all because he was caught in a bald-faced lie he can't prove.

Live with the shame, old man, just like YOUR mother had to, for giving birth lying scum you. Did your father stick around for it? Did she even know his name?

Either that, or be a man and prove it. ...betcha ya dont...

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 01:07 PM
Remember, he was trying to get Beefy's Granny's phone number, so...

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 01:08 PM
I wish this thread hadn't turned political. Can we go back to talking about nipples again? THAT was fun!

GMichael
02-06-2008, 01:11 PM
And this thread just keeps spinning out of control.:nonod:

markw
02-06-2008, 01:35 PM
And this thread just keeps spinning out of control.:nonod:all it was was was a thinly veiled attempt for ol' marv to denigrate other people and their equipment using the pretext of a friendly discussion.

I guess that's the only thrill he gets out of life now that he's driven away all the people in his life with his attitude. He's forced to try to make friends (ha!) on the internet. ...or at least find new forums and squander their good will until he's driven away in utter shame.

But I honestly think he likes the abuse. He's tired of abusing himself. ...or he's not physically able to anymore.

Like the bear said, "You're not really for the hunting, are you, Frank?"

GMichael
02-06-2008, 01:40 PM
What color was that bear?

A man leaves his village to go hunting. He walks 5 miles due south to where he sees a bear. He follows the bear 5 miles due west and then shoots him. He then walks 5 miles due north, back to the village he started at.
What color was that bear?

SlumpBuster
02-06-2008, 01:50 PM
What color was that bear?

A man leaves his village to go hunting. He walks 5 miles due south to where he sees a bear. He follows the bear 5 miles due west and then shoots him. He then walks 5 miles due north, back to the village he started at.
What color was that bear?

The bear was white. I've never actually seen that riddle and its one of the few I've ever been able to figure out. Cookie for me. :D

GMichael
02-06-2008, 01:55 PM
The bear was white. I've never actually seen that riddle and its one of the few I've ever been able to figure out. Cookie for me. :D

I tried, but my cookie cutter is still broken.

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 02:41 PM
I tried, but my cookie cutter is still broken.

German riddles are better than that. That was a low class riddle. Greenie for you for trying though!

E-Stat
02-06-2008, 02:42 PM
Now, are trolls supposed to be banned from this site or not E-Stat?
Stay tuned.

rw

JohnMichael
02-06-2008, 02:46 PM
I goose-stepped to the moderator side and did what needed to be done.

JSE
02-06-2008, 02:48 PM
Stay tuned.

rw

Suspended Eh?

Good work! He really has become a Troll over the last few days.


Let's see if my Greenie gun is working?


JSE

GMichael
02-06-2008, 02:50 PM
Oh no!

Now who will keep up with our ridiculous post quota?:idea:















Hey! Stop looking at me like that!:incazzato:

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 02:56 PM
Two cookies for E-Stat and two cookies for JM. What color M&M's do ya like fellas? :thumbsup:

basite
02-06-2008, 02:57 PM
Oh no!

Now who will keep up with our ridiculous post quota?:idea:


no one ever said we can't post much without Melvin...


We should all be active on AR, with or without Melvin.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

Groundbeef
02-06-2008, 02:57 PM
I goose-stepped to the moderator side and did what needed to be done.

Hey, JM, is it true? I just read the AR bylaws, and to be re-instated as a member in good standing you need to submit a picture of yourself? Driving a Honda, and listening to music wearing Bose noise cancelling headphones...and reading a paperback?

basite
02-06-2008, 03:00 PM
thanks Groundbeef, btw, thanks to you too GM...

It seems my rep gun is jammed though...

keep them spinning,
Bert.

emaidel
02-06-2008, 04:13 PM
I "checked in here" this morning to see whatever ridiculous rants we'd be seeing from Melvin, and then went about my day. Now, about 12 hours later, I see that he's gone. I certainly can't say I'm sorry, since, despite how silly his comments were about audio equipment, and how insulting his comments were to anyone else and their equipment, resorting to defending Adolf Hitler was just too much for anyone to stomach.

I often contribute to another website, epinions.com, on which I write reviews on movies, appliances and other things. Once, after a number of reviews started appearing on the film, "The Passion Of the Christ," one member showed up with the moniker, "dslcobra02."

Whatever "dslcobra02" meant, no one knew, but one thing was for certain: this man was a Jew-baiting, neo-Nazi nutcase whose posts got uglier, and uglier. Jewish members of epinions railed against him, but he just brushed them off, and continued to spill forth more and more of his noxious bile. And, all of this under the heading of a review for "The Passion of the Christ!"

I found his comments loathesome, and revolting, and reported him to the site mods. Not too long afterwards, everything about dslcobra02 vanished: his own wretched review of the film, and all of his obnoxious posts to all those who tried to reason with him.

Melvin Walker reminded me in many ways of dslcobra02, though he wasn't quite as vile, nor did he type everything IN CAPS ALL THE TIME either. Melvin was harmless enough, until he became a supporter of Adolf Hitler and an obvious revisionist historian. It was fun pointing out his silly comments on audio, and other people's equipment, but he really went too far on this one, and now he's gone.

So, who'se next? Pixie?

Luvin Da Blues
02-06-2008, 05:55 PM
Guys, I propose that we totally ignore all of this moronic A$$holes posts and let him wallow in his own f*ckin ignorance. What a Nazi lovin prick. Mel go far away from this forum and don't come back 'till you get a clue.

bobsticks
02-06-2008, 06:08 PM
Now, about 12 hours later, I see that he's gone. I certainly can't say I'm sorry, since, despite how silly his comments were about audio equipment, and how insulting his comments were to anyone else and their equipment, resorting to defending Adolf Hitler was just too much for anyone to stomach.

Melvin Walker reminded me in many ways of dslcobra02, though he wasn't quite as vile, nor did he type everything IN CAPS ALL THE TIME either. Melvin was harmless enough, until he became a supporter of Adolf Hitler and an obvious revisionist historian. It was fun pointing out his silly comments on audio, and other people's equipment, but he really went too far on this one, and now he's gone.

So, who'se next? Pixie?

Much respect to your point of view emaidel, and melvin is a repugnant character but silencing these types never works. Besides I like keeping the bastards out in the open where you can see 'em. The real dirty stuff always happens, unrefuted, behind closed doors. They're not going to stop revising history and I'd rather have them here for all to see when we smash their pathetic histrionics...hoisted by their own petard as it were. I do, however, recognize that many in our forum might like it to be a more serene gathering spot and that's fair too.

Pix isn't even a proto-fascist or a neo-fascist, just a jackass. We all have our moments.

Rich-n-Texas
02-06-2008, 07:19 PM
Guys, I propose that we totally ignore all of this moronic A$$holes posts and let him wallow in his own f*ckin ignorance. What a Nazi lovin prick. Mel go far away from this forum and don't come back 'till you get a clue.
:yikes: LDB!!! I'm SHOCKED!!!

Oh, BTW, he's been suspended. :yesnod:

Luvin Da Blues
02-06-2008, 09:56 PM
:yikes: LDB!!! I'm SHOCKED!!!

Oh, BTW, he's been suspended. :yesnod:

OOPS...Didn't know. I guess he hit a nerve with the Hitler stuff.

pixelthis
02-07-2008, 01:38 AM
I "checked in here" this morning to see whatever ridiculous rants we'd be seeing from Melvin, and then went about my day. Now, about 12 hours later, I see that he's gone. I certainly can't say I'm sorry, since, despite how silly his comments were about audio equipment, and how insulting his comments were to anyone else and their equipment, resorting to defending Adolf Hitler was just too much for anyone to stomach.

I often contribute to another website, epinions.com, on which I write reviews on movies, appliances and other things. Once, after a number of reviews started appearing on the film, "The Passion Of the Christ," one member showed up with the moniker, "dslcobra02."

Whatever "dslcobra02" meant, no one knew, but one thing was for certain: this man was a Jew-baiting, neo-Nazi nutcase whose posts got uglier, and uglier. Jewish members of epinions railed against him, but he just brushed them off, and continued to spill forth more and more of his noxious bile. And, all of this under the heading of a review for "The Passion of the Christ!"

I found his comments loathesome, and revolting, and reported him to the site mods. Not too long afterwards, everything about dslcobra02 vanished: his own wretched review of the film, and all of his obnoxious posts to all those who tried to reason with him.

Melvin Walker reminded me in many ways of dslcobra02, though he wasn't quite as vile, nor did he type everything IN CAPS ALL THE TIME either. Melvin was harmless enough, until he became a supporter of Adolf Hitler and an obvious revisionist historian. It was fun pointing out his silly comments on audio, and other people's equipment, but he really went too far on this one, and now he's gone.

So, who'se next? Pixie?


Where the HELL do you get off comparing me to some neo nazi scumbag, jackass?
When have I EVER said anything even remotely anti-semitic, racist, or offensive to anybody based on who they are?
WHAT A LOT OF NERVE .
Iwant an apology NOW scumbucket or I will report you to the mods, and if youi arent banned for slander I will sue just about everybody associated with this site.
I lost a lot of relatives in the fight with those nazi SOB'S AND for to even insinuate that I AM IN THE LEAST WAY any kind if Nazi SUPPORTER is the highest kind of slander.
SO APOLOGISE.
NOW:mad5:

Peter_Klim
02-07-2008, 01:42 AM
Moderators,

Common already! please close this "irrelevant to audio" thread. Who the heck wants to read this garbage? Are we in the "kidengarten" forum???

Bernd
02-07-2008, 03:18 AM
Moderators,

Common already! please close this "irrelevant to audio" thread. Who the heck wants to read this garbage? Are we in the "kidengarten" forum???

I agree, but also support Bobsticks view that we should keep vermin like Melvin out in the open. Maybe we can move this to the "Steelcage" and out of the Audio board.
As I read this this morning I got sick to the stomach by what Melvin has put. These people need to be exposed (thanks MarkW) for what they are.
Just as a little redirection about the notion that all germans supported the Nazi regime. What very often happened, was that an official turned up at a large place of work and posted a notice that this and this minister will speak at a given time and place. That's all. And by jesus, if you didn't show up, your life as you knew it ended that night. That's the other reason why you will see on all those propaganda films the screaming masses. People wanted to be seen, to leave no doubt that they attended. Very hard to understand today. A very good movie to watch to get some idea on what it must have been like is "Das Leben der Anderen" (The Life of others). It plays in the former GDR, but is not unlike what happened in Nazi germanys secret police. Which brings me to the next point. My grandfather was a high offical in the Gestapo. After the war he was tried and put into prison. My father who was thirteen at the time had to take over the family business. So he never had a childhood and is bitter to this day. Talk about suffering for the sins of your father.
My Grandfather never got over it that his dream of the 1000 year Reich had gone.
In 2000 my father gave me a sealed, unopened and officially stamped jiffy bag which contains an original edition of "Mein Kampf "with a dedication to my Grandfather and Hitlers signature aswell as a golden pinky ring with a ruby. Which was given to him at the ceremony for the great work he did to keep the cattle trucks running. Why am I telling all this here? This parcel weighs very heavy on me. It was sealed in '68, the year of my Grandfathers death from alcoholism, and has not been opened since. Nobody knew my father had it and now it's up to me to decide what to do with it. Destroy it or preserve it? I also think it's important to show a view on how a young life, like my fathers, has been taken away from him through the madness of War and jingoism. Which brings us right back to the top that people like Melvin need to be exposed and to make sure that such evil never has the chance to rear it's head again. It needs to be stamped out where-ever it appears. And if ever anyone wants to sense real evil, visit Birkenau. Not Auschwitz. You will feel real evil.
Oddly enough Hitler very rarely gave direct orders. He hinted a lot and ministers took it onto themselves to implement mad ideas. The whole Government was very disorganised and incompetent. But thats another story.
A very good book to read to get some idea of the chaos is the account of a concentration camp survivor. "Primo Levi - If this is a Man".
And thanks to Americas help, Germany could be rebuild. And thank god we didn't have another treaty of Versailles part 2.

Phew, heavy for a Thursday morning.

Peace

bobsticks
02-07-2008, 03:21 AM
Where the HELL do you get off comparing me to some neo nazi scumbag, jackass?
When have I EVER said anything even remotely anti-semitic, racist, or offensive to anybody based on who they are?
WHAT A LOT OF NERVE .
Iwant an apology NOW scumbucket or I will report you to the mods, and if youi arent banned for slander I will sue just about everybody associated with this site.
I lost a lot of relatives in the fight with those nazi SOB'S AND for to even insinuate that I AM IN THE LEAST WAY any kind if Nazi SUPPORTER is the highest kind of slander.
SO APOLOGISE.
NOW:mad5:


Oh good Lord, man. It's not even actionable...and before you get your panties in a bunch with me note that I'm the one that defended you. Eat a donut, keep it movin'.

emaidel
02-07-2008, 05:00 AM
Where the HELL do you get off comparing me to some neo nazi scumbag, jackass?
When have I EVER said anything even remotely anti-semitic, racist, or offensive to anybody based on who they are?
WHAT A LOT OF NERVE .
Iwant an apology NOW scumbucket or I will report you to the mods, and if youi arent banned for slander I will sue just about everybody associated with this site.
I lost a lot of relatives in the fight with those nazi SOB'S AND for to even insinuate that I AM IN THE LEAST WAY any kind if Nazi SUPPORTER is the highest kind of slander.
SO APOLOGISE.
NOW:mad5:

Oh, for Heaven's sake man! Nothing like drawing conclusions where there are none to be drawn. Anyone with half a brain can see that I wasn't comparing you with neo Nazis. Melvin's posts were mostly inane, insulting and pretty stupid, much like most of yours, which is something you'll have a pretty difficult job of denying. That's the comparison, Pixaluh, so get used to it.

I never accused you of being, nor even suggested that you may have been a neo Nazi. To have lost relatives to Nazis is a horrible thing indeed, and I wouldn't ever stoop so low as to belittle that fact.

So, stop your whining. And, PLEASE STOP USING CAPS - that's the internet equivalent of shouting, and it's considered rude and unacceptable.

emaidel
02-07-2008, 05:17 AM
As other's have pointed out, this thread has gone way off course. While the initial, seemingly harmless banter between an old curmudgeon and a host of others was amusing, that transpired into a vicious, pro-Hitler rant, which got our "friend" Melvin Walker suspended.

Now, it's going off in another direction, and I'm the one who started that. Whether or not my extreme distaste for just about anything Pixie has posted is justified, it's now just going to start another endless tirade of his horrible rants, and anyone who chimes in to voice his opinion will likely be verbally attacked too. If I want to see Pixie suspended also, there are other routes to take, and this isn't one of them.

So, I apologize to my fellow AR'ers, and ask too that this thread be locked.

GMichael
02-07-2008, 06:07 AM
Where the HELL do you get off comparing me to some neo nazi scumbag, jackass?
When have I EVER said anything even remotely anti-semitic, racist, or offensive to anybody based on who they are?
WHAT A LOT OF NERVE .
Iwant an apology NOW scumbucket or I will report you to the mods, and if youi arent banned for slander I will sue just about everybody associated with this site.
I lost a lot of relatives in the fight with those nazi SOB'S AND for to even insinuate that I AM IN THE LEAST WAY any kind if Nazi SUPPORTER is the highest kind of slander.
SO APOLOGISE.
NOW:mad5:

Better Pix. This is much better. You can now move to the head of the class.

I'm so proud. Proud I say!
Sniff sniff...

The way you jumped on the band wagon of hatred was genius. Then you through in a bunch of CAPS in memory of Lexmark. That was great (considering that he's from before your time here). Just brilliant!
Would you like to take over my troll classes for next season? I'm thinking of taking some time off.

GMichael
02-07-2008, 06:10 AM
Oh good Lord, man. It's not even actionable...and before you get your panties in a bunch with me note that I'm the one that defended you. Eat a donut, keep it movin'.

This was Pixie humour. A little off the beaten path, but I liked it. I'm thinking of giving him a cookie.

Feanor
02-07-2008, 06:29 AM
I agree, but also support Bobsticks view that we should keep vermin like Melvin out in the open. Maybe we can move this to the "Steelcage" and out of the Audio board.
...
Phew, heavy for a Thursday morning.

Peace

I agree this thread ought to be closed and moved to the Steel Cage. In any case it has become unnavigable.

Bernd, an interesting story. Thanks for sharing it. A question I oftern as myself is what I would have done had I been a young person in Nazi Germany. I like to think of myself as a believer in decency and justice and rejecter of authority: it is true today but I not sure it was true when I was in my early 20s.

By the way, a post of my earlier in this thread seemed to compare George W. Bush unfavourably with Adolph Hitler. That was meant to be satirical and tongue-in-cheek: bad as he is, Bush is not a Hitler.

I have read many books on the Nazi regime and I know that it was incompotently run: very much a contradiction of the notion of German efficiency. Hitler play the mob boss game of playing off his goons against each other to the disadvantage of Germany, not to say, the world. And no Nazi government department or organization was more incompotently run than the -notorious SS.

Bernd
02-07-2008, 07:29 AM
I agree this thread ought to be closed and moved to the Steel Cage. In any case it has become unnavigable.

Bernd, an interesting story. Thanks for sharing it. A question I oftern as myself is what I would have done had I been a young person in Nazi Germany. I like to think of myself as a believer in decency and justice and rejecter of authority: it is true today but I not sure it was true when I was in my early 20s.

By the way, a post of my earlier in this thread seemed to compare George W. Bush unfavourably with Adolph Hitler. That was meant to be satirical and tongue-in-cheek: bad as he is, Bush is not a Hitler.

I have read many books on the Nazi regime and I know that it was incompotently run: very much a contradiction of the notion of German efficiency. Hitler play the mob boss game of playing off his goons against each other to the disadvantage of Germany, not to say, the world. And no Nazi government department or organization was more incompotently run than the -notorious SS.

Thanks,

And yes it is very difficult to imagine what it must have been like. My other Grandad was a headteacher at the time and was asked to join the NSDAP. He refused, and that same evening was told that he will be replaced. He cleaned the toilets at the school for the rest of the War, but he never joined and was re-appointed headmaster after the madness ended.
For evil to succeed, good men need to do nothing.

Peace

Groundbeef
02-07-2008, 07:30 AM
I agree, but also support Bobsticks view that we should keep vermin like Melvin out in the open. Maybe we can move this to the "Steelcage" and out of the Audio board.
My Grandfather never got over it that his dream of the 1000 year Reich had gone.
In 2000 my father gave me a sealed, unopened and officially stamped jiffy bag which contains an original edition of "Mein Kampf "with a dedication to my Grandfather and Hitlers signature aswell as a golden pinky ring with a ruby. Which was given to him at the ceremony for the great work he did to keep the cattle trucks running. Why am I telling all this here? This parcel weighs very heavy on me. It was sealed in '68, the year of my Grandfathers death from alcoholism, and has not been opened since. Nobody knew my father had it and now it's up to me to decide what to do with it. Destroy it or preserve it? I also think it's important to show a view on how a young life, like my fathers, has been taken away from him through the madness of War and jingoism. Which brings us right back to the top that people like Melvin need to be exposed and to make sure that such evil never has the chance to rear it's head again. It needs to be stamped out where-ever it appears. And if ever anyone wants to sense real evil, visit Birkenau. Not Auschwitz. You will feel real evil.


Thanks for you sharing some personal history with us. My wife's grandfather was pretty high up in the SS, but after the war emigrated to the US. He dedicated the remaining years of his life as an excellent orthopedist (makes atificial limbs), and helping others. I didn't ever speak to him with regards to his time in the war.

I actually only realized it during his funeral, when a picture of him in uniform was removed from his memorial display.

As far as your "burden", I would suggest contacting a local Jewish historical society, or looking on this website for directon:

http://www.ahoinfo.org/site/pp.asp?c=8dJBKPNxFpG&b=310568


I don't know where you are in the world, but there are also world locations. In the wrong hands, your stuff would be considered "gold". Perhaps it could be used to educate others in the wrongs of yesterday.

Just a thought, and hope it helps you sort through your problem.

Bernd
02-07-2008, 07:36 AM
Thanks for you sharing some personal history with us. My wife's grandfather was pretty high up in the SS, but after the war emigrated to the US. He dedicated the remaining years of his life as an excellent orthopedist (makes atificial limbs), and helping others. I didn't ever speak to him with regards to his time in the war.

I actually only realized it during his funeral, when a picture of him in uniform was removed from his memorial display.

As far as your "burden", I would suggest contacting a local Jewish historical society, or looking on this website for directon:

http://www.ahoinfo.org/site/pp.asp?c=8dJBKPNxFpG&b=310568


I don't know where you are in the world, but there are also world locations. In the wrong hands, your stuff would be considered "gold". Perhaps it could be used to educate others in the wrongs of yesterday.

Just a thought, and hope it helps you sort through your problem.

Thanks,

The wrong hands are exactely my worries. The ring alone would be worth a small fortune, not for material value of course. It is family history, but more than that it is part of world history and needs to be either destroyed or used to educate. I think I would be very reluctant to hand it over. I could very easy burn it and it's gone.

Peace

Chas Underhay
02-07-2008, 07:51 AM
This has got to be the weirdest bl00dy thread I have ever seen on AR!

Greetings Bernd, long time no speak!

Germany wasn't beaten in the first world war in the same way as it was in the second. It was more a case of the powers that be in Germany deciding that the war was becoming to expensive.

After the treaty of Versailles; Germany was left reamed, steamed, dry cleaned and castrated which left a lot of the population feeling totally disenfranchised. Its not difficult to understand why Hitler became popular; when the US and UK were in states of economic depression he promsed miricales and for a long time performed them. He could never have got to power by promising carnage.

Your package is an important piece of history, whether it was in connection with something else unpleasant like the plague, the great fire of London, Caligula or Vlad the Impaler; it should not be destroyed.

Feanor
02-07-2008, 08:27 AM
Thanks,

The wrong hands are exactely my worries. The ring alone would be worth a small fortune, not for material value of course. It is family history, but more than that it is part of world history and needs to be either destroyed or used to educate. I think I would be very reluctant to hand it over. I could very easy burn it and it's gone.

Peace

Bernd,

Keep these things for now. Perhaps you will find an appropriate museum, but they are part of history and shouldn't be destroyed. Personally, I feel that Jewish organizations, (in general), are too biased to be entrusted with such things, that is, too inclined to exploit them for their own, present-day agendas.